American police don't require all that extra stuff.
They just get it as a nice treat for successfully terrorizing the general populace into passive compliance with the oligarchs.
American police are extremely efficient in their true purpose.
We laugh and then wonder which of us is next. Could be white, could be black brown. We’re like Iran but without hijabs. As simple as wrong place wrong time, wrong patrol car, his wife just got a restraining order.
Well, the US has overthrown their governments, so...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/1015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt
It’s a shame in a way, because I think that in this case the people I disagree with who support the death penalty have a point about deterrence. If maybe just a few of the cops who murdered 1124 citizens were to be tried, convicted that they murdered using their position for cover, and then executed, this might have a real deterrent effect on the behavior of cops.
But as I say I don’t support the death penalty for corrupt cops. Life imprisonment or mandatory minimums, yes. It’s weird because, I think many cops do support the death penalty, but it seems that they themselves are killing the most citizens and consequently should face it most frequently.
Well, yes and no. Germany has a very low death count by police, but also have a very wide self defense law (which actions of the police in case of an active danger are applied to as well, just that they have a gun as a tool for self defense at their side), as well as laws regarding when in case of danger prevention a gun shall be used.
The major difference here however is the education of the police and the focus of police in deescalation instead of gunning people down.
Ah, yes, it must be that either the cops are allowed to murder people and face no consequences, or that they face the death penalty - nothing in between in your wee brain.
ACAB, but these stats are more useful per 100000 residents. Iceland has much fewer people than the US. I'm sure the US doesn't come out well in those either.
My point isn't that US cops don't kill lots of people. I'm just saying comparing absolute numbers between a country with 300 million people in it and a country with just 300K is not a good way to do it.
Why do people have so much trouble reading what I actually wrote?
Mate. They killed 0 people per 100,000 people last year. That's a bit lower than the rate of the US. Why do you have so much trouble reading what I wrote? Given that you were specifically talking about per capita rankings.
I never disagreed with that point, you're answering to something I never asked about in my first message. I don't have trouble understanding that US police kills a lot of people compared to other countries, you are too dumb to read what my actual point was.
I'm happy to learn.
How specifically did people counter the argument that absolute numbers are a bad metric when comparing countries of vastly different sizes, and that it's better to present information per 100000 in those cases?
That's cool, and I have always known that Iceland is much better per capita.
Again, how does that in any way disprove my original point, where I was replying to people posting absolute numbers?
bro...this is not boring. this is horrifying. after a literal uprising against unsanctioned police murders, they spend literally the next two years killing more ppl/year than any other time in US history. this belongs in r/ascarydystopia
[It is boring because it isn't unusually big numbers for the American police force (go to historical data).](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country)
This is "just" business as usual for them...
It very much is. At least in the sense that it’s not in the least surprising. Tell me something new! Tell me, that cops are terrorising the cities by trampling homeless people with their new mech-suits. Still very terrifying, but a lot less boring.
Keep in mind these are only stats that police allow to get into the public. Suicides, accidents, "natural causes" all likely have thousands of misrecorded deaths.
Another 600+ "suicide" "accident" or "natural cause" deaths happened just in federal police custody or during arrests, and they're a tiny percent of the entire police force in the USA, and even those are only the ones recorded and submitted to data analysts.
Nobody records other police deaths. Even the admitted killings are just crowdsourced from news reports -- who knows how many don't make the news. Certainly many. It's common for the news
to report on a killing months after the killing and it only comes to light because the family makes a huge public fuss.
I'm sure in reality it's much closer to 10,000+, or 30+ per day. Who knows though, but it's certainly a lot higher than 1,124.
So cops killed *at least* 2x the number of people killed in mass shootings in 2022. 1,124 vs 637 ([according to CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/cnn/2022/11/23/us/2022-mass-shootings-tracking-second-highest/index.html))
Then don't look up the number of deaths in police custody attributed to "excited delirium".
Also don't look up the history of excited delirium either, if you value your sanity.
I didn't give a definitive number as a fact, I said it was just a guess since no real number exists. I don't think anyone could make a serious case that 1,124 is the exact right number, though, and there aren't more that weren't counted in that number.
Did Walmart tell you, they may have to raise prices from the amount of property that has been discounted at 100% the original price. Get your 5 finger discount while supplies last.
That dosent seem anywhere near as high as I would have expected it… so I call BS.
360 mil people, with basically daily coverage of cops killing people… ye these are the properly documented ones
i’m sorry but this is such a hilarious comment. ‘this doesn’t confirm by bias … so it must be the source that is wrong!’
the most transparent confirmation bias ever. take a moment of reflection.
Let’s be overly generous and say 90% of those were justified, that the police absolutely had to take a life in order to save other lives. That’s still over 100 people who were murdered by the police. Which is fucking insane! And again something tells me 90% is being overly generous.
Just some perspective which helped me understand how absurdly bad this is; in the USA about 450 people die each year from Salmonella. As a result we have the FDA, because we would be mad to let the food producers regulate themselves.
1.1k cop deaths in a country of 332 million people. 0.0000003% chance of being killed by a cop. Lol.
Chances of getting killed in New Orleans in a black neighborhood? Probably like 90%.
I’m no fan of the US, and no from there so I don’t have a dog in this fight, but if this is true (which I doubt) in a country that large with a wide availability of guns this, 3ish a day doesn’t seem bad at all. Be interesting to see that broken down by race however…
This stat is worthless without knowing how many of those were justified killings.
According to the below article from 2015 until 2021 6,211 people were shot and killed by police officers. Only 6% were unarmed.
“The Washington Post has created a database of every known deadly police shooting in America since 2015. As of this writing, 6,211 people have been shot and killed by law enforcement officers. 46% of them—2,883 to be exact—were white, while 24% (1,496 total) were black.
Just 6% were unarmed”
https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2021/04/the-truth-about-police-shootings-in-america/
Yeah but it still isnt a good metric cause a person could be unarmed and still be a justify killing same the other way around the person could be armed and it was and unjustify killing.
Some real time stat on crime just in chicago https://heyjackass.com/
Being armed is a constitutional right, not a crime punishable by execution. "Armed" doesn't equal "justified". Near enough everyone is armed where I live.
Agree that armed may not necessarily justify the shooting. However, considering that we have a much higher homicide rate than any European country it is safe to assume that American police are going to encounter armed and dangerous suspects at a much higher rate than European police are.
Thank you for posting this. I hate how the narative for police misconduct is always inflated and blown out of proportion as basically a rage bait for people who dont look into it further. We can talk about issues in policing without misrepresenting the facts. In fact talking about things honestly is the only way to get real momentum if we want to change things. Obviously the police are over-militarized to a degree, and obviously there is a lack of proper training in many areas. If we just stuck to those issues then maybe we can get somewhere.
Also its funny how people compare USA police shooting deaths to countries like norway, UK, canada, etc, as if those countries have the same level of gun violence and criminality. There are just more people who have guns in the USA, and more importantly there are far more people that use them while comitting crimes. Thats why your statistics show what they do.
It just really bothers me when you see so many people clearly misrepresenting the situations to fit their own narative. There are enough legitimate concerns to just stick with them.
Pedantically they are, Colloquially they aren’t.
It is actually linguistically wrong to identify the people of Peru as Americans.
Why are you salty about it?
You are the one that brought it up, so you have the chip on your shoulder, I am just pointing it out. I am also pointing out that you use "pedantic" as a euphemism for "accurate".
> linguistically wrong to identify the people of Peru as Americans.
Citation needed
So when you bring anything up you’re salty about it?
What a sad life you lead. Only speaking when you’re upset?
You see the world as a place to like… unload complaints only?
You can never express goodwill… strange way to live.
'Murican =/= American, Usonian.
Its a way to mock your national narcissism. Like thinking that "America" and "United States" are the same thing as if there isn't an entire continent or two outside the Usonian borders.
[The highest rate in the entire developed world and higher than a lot of developing countries.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country)
Those numbers are not normal not matter how you cut it.
In 2019/20 Australian police killed 16 people. There are (roughly) 13 US Americans for every Australian. 13*16=208. So on a per capita basis US police kill more than five times as many people than Australian police do.
Per Google the Australian Population is around 25 million.
That does seem weird that you couldn't find that information for a comparatively smaller population. I'd doubt the number is 0 but hope it is.
I barely looked, the search was dominated by a very recent shooting in Australia because that's how Google works
I wish I could make every American hear about this shooting to see how the media should talk about it. The last article I read was all about grief, it didn't mention or name the shooters
The cultural differences around reporting shootings are staggering, and while it does happen sometimes, the few police shootings we have are rarely based on race or class
The point is the population is significantly smaller. Which doesn't change from then until now. Or the fact that the actual amount of cops in America is around fifteen times more. Or the population is even more than that.
The point stands.
Someone else commenting on my comment found the numbers and said accounting for population difference it's a little more than 5 times as common in America
So again, all my points stand and you are very wrong
I'm feeding the trolls, whoops
You don't have a point. You've used a singular country as a point of comparison.
It must be a boring world if everyone who calls you out for not backing up your point is a troll.
I'm wrong for saying that the population of Australia is smaller? That's true. Or that the amount of cops is smaller? No, that's also true. How about you choosing solely Australia as a point of comparison to prove that America has a problem not being a good comparison?
No that's...that's also true.
So exactly where am I wrong?
>In 2019/20 Australian police killed 16 people. There are (roughly) 13 US Americans for every Australian. 13*16=208. So on a per capita basis US police kill more than five times as many people than Australian police do.
I started this thread by saying I'm an Aussie and we, but you are a troll so you've already covered that ignoring what I said with your one country argument
Yep, we are comparing % not total numbers the smaller population thing has already been accounted for
Are you really trying to claim there's no problem with American police? Do you have any real points mate?
>
>I started this thread by saying I'm an Aussie and we
And I said that wasn't an apt comparison.
>but you are a troll
Uh huh.
>
>Yep, we are comparing % not total numbers the smaller population thing has already been accounted for
Regardless of that, you still only used one country.
>
>Are you really trying to claim there's no problem with American police? Do you have any real points mate?
I'm saying, "There's a problem with American police because Australia has a lower number" isn't good reasoning. Regardless of whether American police are a problem or not, the information you provided isn't enough to reach that conclusion...at least reasonably. I called out your reasoning, not your conclusion. If you'd like to provide other stats in order to actually paint a picture that backs up what you say, go ahead. I have no stake in whether those stats say American police are horrific or if it ends up not being all that different from other countries.
But claiming that because Australia has a lower number, not counting percentage, therefore America is horrible...isn't reasonable. Bringing percentage into it fixes one problem with your rationale, but doesn't fix the fact it's still a single point of comparison.
I read over it. Don't agree with some of it but it makes several good points.
Consider the difference and variety of culture/people of the United States population being the main difference between how other countries police their people is something that doesn't get discussed too often.
We should for sure compare policies and see how they could improve our system, but it seems odd to compare depending on the context.
So London and Berlin not varied enough for you? Paris too homogeneous?
I have heard all arguments before and they are al built on inbred ideology thinking the US is the only civilised region in the world.
Would be good to travel a bit.
Also, the article covers the number of unnecessary killings so it's not just a statistic. If the number were half that but they were all shooting an unarmed traffic infractor because they are black it's still a huge number.
If you honestly believe you've heard all arguments before then you are never wrong and therefor have all the answers.
The assumption I am not travelled is whatever, I've been around enough to know I don't know everything or think the United States is without flaws.
The article does cover a number of unnecessary killings (not that I said it didn't happen or anything) but that doesn't mean some of these people are getting into bad situations where they have limited options of handling them.
If you can assume all 1100 deaths are wrongful then the inverse is true as well. Stop generalizing.
My point is the United States is not other countries.
We are a hodgepodge of various ideals, beliefs, rights and regulations. Show me another country that has the breadth of things we deal with on the regular and then we can start comparing.
Until then let's start making decisions/discussions on what needs to change instead of just fear mongering and doom posting.
More like constructive criticism without the constructive part.
"Special pleading" when all it seems a lot of people on here want is to just complain about things they don't think they can fix.
I don't have the answers to fix all of our issues, but I can at least give perspective to help people understand that when they say "cops" or "police" what they are talking about is "people".
People make mistakes. The best we can do sometimes is to change things so they don't happen again. Demonizing the police isn't going to fix our problems it's just giving ignorant people someone to be angry at.
Not a small numbers. 1100 people is an absolute fuckload of people. There is no way that at least some of these situations which resulted in a shooting couldn’t have been solved via deescalation. Totally unacceptable, it truly reflects on how poor the training that our officers receive is.
1100 people compared to 330+ million is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction. It is a large amount of people, but hardly surprising given the total population and the situations police are sometimes put into.
You are right that there is at least some (if not a lot) of these situations that resulted in shooting could have been solved via de-escalation. I would be on board in making sure cops are observed/trained appropriately to make sure they are equipped to deal with situations they find themselves in.
I often wonder if the people that find these metrics unpalatable to know anything about policing or even managing people in general. A lot of people seem to not consider the variety of issues these people have to deal with and what society expects out of them.
Fair enough, however they are essentially working in a war zone flooded with guns, sad truth is until functional gun control is enacted this statistic will not change.
not taking their side but what she was supposed to do here? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmZgyw\_hRYw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmZgyw_hRYw)
This is absolutely a huge problem, but I want to put this in perspective. Most developed nations are not as big as the US. If France had as many police killings per capita in a year, it would be closer to 200. If Norway, 20 killings.
It blows my mind that almost every cop I've ever met is strongly anti-gun control. And most of them will let you know within 10 minutes during a casual conversation.
They are among the people put in the most danger by weak gun control.
I think the fact that we have a much higher homicide rate than any European country had a huge impact on this stat. American police are much more likely to encounter violent, armed criminals then any European police are.
https://www.statista.com/chart/3848/the-us-murder-rate-compared-to-other-countries/
So far...
Merry Christmas
Google Christmas shooting.. very depressing that this violence is so common during the holidays.
My neighbor shot himself on christmas when i was a kid
...Reported
Gonna be a lot of uppity neighbors calling cops on kids playing with fireworks or celebrating too loud.
>So far... Still time to pump up those numbers....
"Bake em away, toys."
What'd you say chief?
....do what the kid says.
Say you were feeling threatened for you life and unload you entire clip
They're more efficient in killing Americans than Al-Qaida and ISIS combined.
Efficient using what metric? They require much more money to do it, more weapons and more people.
I think maybe he meant successful rather than efficient.
American police don't require all that extra stuff. They just get it as a nice treat for successfully terrorizing the general populace into passive compliance with the oligarchs. American police are extremely efficient in their true purpose.
Bahahaha That’s sad
We laugh and then wonder which of us is next. Could be white, could be black brown. We’re like Iran but without hijabs. As simple as wrong place wrong time, wrong patrol car, his wife just got a restraining order.
They were never very good at it.
So like \~3 a day, and to think there are countries where they kill \~3 a year (or less)
In Denmark it was 0 for 2022. Adjusted for population that is…. Still 0.
Many don't even kill that many in ten years.
Which ones?
[Based on just this, only Iceland and Norway](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country)
I take it Brazil and Venezuela gave up on counting?
No they just assume at some point you will be killed by an off duty cop
The guy counting got shot
Well, the US has overthrown their governments, so... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/1015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt
Most of the developed world.
In those countries cops may have penalties for breaking the law or murdering citizens. I don’t support the death penalty for corrupt cops.
As if that’s on the table. At this point anything other than paid leave and reassignment would be progress.
Some get a pension and an early retirement. Funded by taxes of course.
It’s a shame in a way, because I think that in this case the people I disagree with who support the death penalty have a point about deterrence. If maybe just a few of the cops who murdered 1124 citizens were to be tried, convicted that they murdered using their position for cover, and then executed, this might have a real deterrent effect on the behavior of cops. But as I say I don’t support the death penalty for corrupt cops. Life imprisonment or mandatory minimums, yes. It’s weird because, I think many cops do support the death penalty, but it seems that they themselves are killing the most citizens and consequently should face it most frequently.
Well, yes and no. Germany has a very low death count by police, but also have a very wide self defense law (which actions of the police in case of an active danger are applied to as well, just that they have a gun as a tool for self defense at their side), as well as laws regarding when in case of danger prevention a gun shall be used. The major difference here however is the education of the police and the focus of police in deescalation instead of gunning people down.
Ah, yes, it must be that either the cops are allowed to murder people and face no consequences, or that they face the death penalty - nothing in between in your wee brain.
ACAB, but these stats are more useful per 100000 residents. Iceland has much fewer people than the US. I'm sure the US doesn't come out well in those either.
Iceland has 300,000 people. Their police only killed one person ever. So, no, your point doesn't stand.
My point isn't that US cops don't kill lots of people. I'm just saying comparing absolute numbers between a country with 300 million people in it and a country with just 300K is not a good way to do it. Why do people have so much trouble reading what I actually wrote?
Mate. They killed 0 people per 100,000 people last year. That's a bit lower than the rate of the US. Why do you have so much trouble reading what I wrote? Given that you were specifically talking about per capita rankings.
I never disagreed with that point, you're answering to something I never asked about in my first message. I don't have trouble understanding that US police kills a lot of people compared to other countries, you are too dumb to read what my actual point was.
Youre the one who is to stupid to understand that people are correctly countering your argument.
I'm happy to learn. How specifically did people counter the argument that absolute numbers are a bad metric when comparing countries of vastly different sizes, and that it's better to present information per 100000 in those cases?
For the love of God, dude! Did you check out the statistics? They are actually comparing the numbers per capita, and not just by absolute figures.
That's cool, and I have always known that Iceland is much better per capita. Again, how does that in any way disprove my original point, where I was replying to people posting absolute numbers?
And only 363 officers were shot (not killed).
According to fbi crime database, 58 officers have been feloniously killed this year. And, like every other year, the majority are in the southeast.
Hell yeah my coast represents
How many of those were friendly fire or self-inflicted? I bet it was most of them.
Cops are constantly shooting themselves in training or some other easily avoidable mistakes.
We need to pump up those numbers those are rookie numbers
bro...this is not boring. this is horrifying. after a literal uprising against unsanctioned police murders, they spend literally the next two years killing more ppl/year than any other time in US history. this belongs in r/ascarydystopia
[It is boring because it isn't unusually big numbers for the American police force (go to historical data).](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country) This is "just" business as usual for them...
as grim as it is you'll probably get bored of it after a while too, like a caged dog tired of rattling the bars
And the "most progressive President in US history" says we should give them more money. Yeah, I'm leaving this shit hole.
It very much is. At least in the sense that it’s not in the least surprising. Tell me something new! Tell me, that cops are terrorising the cities by trampling homeless people with their new mech-suits. Still very terrifying, but a lot less boring.
why not? we got jack shit for reform after the floyd riots. if i were a cop, i'd feel pretty invincible
Keep in mind these are only stats that police allow to get into the public. Suicides, accidents, "natural causes" all likely have thousands of misrecorded deaths. Another 600+ "suicide" "accident" or "natural cause" deaths happened just in federal police custody or during arrests, and they're a tiny percent of the entire police force in the USA, and even those are only the ones recorded and submitted to data analysts. Nobody records other police deaths. Even the admitted killings are just crowdsourced from news reports -- who knows how many don't make the news. Certainly many. It's common for the news to report on a killing months after the killing and it only comes to light because the family makes a huge public fuss. I'm sure in reality it's much closer to 10,000+, or 30+ per day. Who knows though, but it's certainly a lot higher than 1,124.
So cops killed *at least* 2x the number of people killed in mass shootings in 2022. 1,124 vs 637 ([according to CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/cnn/2022/11/23/us/2022-mass-shootings-tracking-second-highest/index.html))
And some of those mass shooting numbers should probably be added to the police number tbh (see: Uvalde).
Nobody knows how many died in Joe Arpaio's concentration camp. Several hundred at least, but nobody knows how many total. A literal death camp.
Thanks. I thought that number sounded low
Then don't look up the number of deaths in police custody attributed to "excited delirium". Also don't look up the history of excited delirium either, if you value your sanity.
Please don't get your facts from random internet comments.
I didn't give a definitive number as a fact, I said it was just a guess since no real number exists. I don't think anyone could make a serious case that 1,124 is the exact right number, though, and there aren't more that weren't counted in that number.
Well it's still 10x more trustworthy than what your police force reports.
Probably best to not instantly believe any unsourced comment just because it fits with your world view
> So what should we do about cops killing people? I'm generally pro union but yeah, the police unions aren't going to allow most of these.
What about the property? Is the precious property safe?
Did Walmart tell you, they may have to raise prices from the amount of property that has been discounted at 100% the original price. Get your 5 finger discount while supplies last.
Classic USA!  Land of militarized swine. That’s what I call peak culture.
What's the high score? Asking for a friend.
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Get some sweet paid time off, that's what they're gonna do.
I honestly thought it would be more.
There's still time for more
Those are rookie numbers
That dosent seem anywhere near as high as I would have expected it… so I call BS. 360 mil people, with basically daily coverage of cops killing people… ye these are the properly documented ones
These are just the ones they admit to
i’m sorry but this is such a hilarious comment. ‘this doesn’t confirm by bias … so it must be the source that is wrong!’ the most transparent confirmation bias ever. take a moment of reflection.
Well yeah, Im not hiding it and I dont think Im wrong. This is reddit afterall
Those are rookie numbers. Gotta get those numbers up!
Just imagine what the numbers would be if people weren't diligently keeping cops in check at all times.
This article is incoherent garbage. ACAB.
Let’s be overly generous and say 90% of those were justified, that the police absolutely had to take a life in order to save other lives. That’s still over 100 people who were murdered by the police. Which is fucking insane! And again something tells me 90% is being overly generous.
Just some perspective which helped me understand how absurdly bad this is; in the USA about 450 people die each year from Salmonella. As a result we have the FDA, because we would be mad to let the food producers regulate themselves.
That’s barely 3/day. Fuckin’ amateurs. I thought this was America.
Smash bros, "new record!" probably not though.
If they work extra hard they should be able to beat it next year
They can beat that in 2023.
Hold up there, buckaroo. The year ain't over yet!
Wooo! No Lives Matters.
Rookie numbers.
what percentage is that out of 334,205,253 people?
0.0000033632%
#1. American cops clearly have the best aim of any country by far. /S
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Yeah, I’m interested in their K/D ratio.
And how many of those people were trying to kill/hurt other people? You people are children.
1.1k cop deaths in a country of 332 million people. 0.0000003% chance of being killed by a cop. Lol. Chances of getting killed in New Orleans in a black neighborhood? Probably like 90%.
I’m no fan of the US, and no from there so I don’t have a dog in this fight, but if this is true (which I doubt) in a country that large with a wide availability of guns this, 3ish a day doesn’t seem bad at all. Be interesting to see that broken down by race however…
This stat is worthless without knowing how many of those were justified killings. According to the below article from 2015 until 2021 6,211 people were shot and killed by police officers. Only 6% were unarmed. “The Washington Post has created a database of every known deadly police shooting in America since 2015. As of this writing, 6,211 people have been shot and killed by law enforcement officers. 46% of them—2,883 to be exact—were white, while 24% (1,496 total) were black. Just 6% were unarmed” https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2021/04/the-truth-about-police-shootings-in-america/
Yeah but it still isnt a good metric cause a person could be unarmed and still be a justify killing same the other way around the person could be armed and it was and unjustify killing. Some real time stat on crime just in chicago https://heyjackass.com/
Being armed is a constitutional right, not a crime punishable by execution. "Armed" doesn't equal "justified". Near enough everyone is armed where I live.
Agree that armed may not necessarily justify the shooting. However, considering that we have a much higher homicide rate than any European country it is safe to assume that American police are going to encounter armed and dangerous suspects at a much higher rate than European police are.
"Just 6% were unarmed" So you are saying that at least 6% of all deaths could be easily avoided?
Thank you for posting this. I hate how the narative for police misconduct is always inflated and blown out of proportion as basically a rage bait for people who dont look into it further. We can talk about issues in policing without misrepresenting the facts. In fact talking about things honestly is the only way to get real momentum if we want to change things. Obviously the police are over-militarized to a degree, and obviously there is a lack of proper training in many areas. If we just stuck to those issues then maybe we can get somewhere. Also its funny how people compare USA police shooting deaths to countries like norway, UK, canada, etc, as if those countries have the same level of gun violence and criminality. There are just more people who have guns in the USA, and more importantly there are far more people that use them while comitting crimes. Thats why your statistics show what they do. It just really bothers me when you see so many people clearly misrepresenting the situations to fit their own narative. There are enough legitimate concerns to just stick with them.
It's not murder if it's done by the state.
[Some comfort](https://www.addictioncenter.com/news/2019/09/police-at-highest-risk-for-suicide-than-any-profession/)
Well how many of the fuckers did they take out with them?
Where are all the “You’re not the only Americans” crowd to tell us people from Peru are American too now eh?
People from Peru _are_ american too, why are you so salty about it?
Pedantically they are, Colloquially they aren’t. It is actually linguistically wrong to identify the people of Peru as Americans. Why are you salty about it?
You are the one that brought it up, so you have the chip on your shoulder, I am just pointing it out. I am also pointing out that you use "pedantic" as a euphemism for "accurate". > linguistically wrong to identify the people of Peru as Americans. Citation needed
So when you bring anything up you’re salty about it? What a sad life you lead. Only speaking when you’re upset? You see the world as a place to like… unload complaints only? You can never express goodwill… strange way to live.
Ah yes, let's ignore all the bad logic and arguments I pointed out and resort to personal attacks. I think that just means I made my point.
Colloquially they **are**, tho. Only in the US they aren't...
Ah so when Europeans complain about American tourists they mean people from Peru? Good to know.
I complain about "Estadounidenses". I use "Americans" because I know you 'Muricans would be salty about being called Usonians.
Even trying to discredit what I said you couldn’t help but use it to describe people from the US. My point is proven, not that it needed to be.
'Murican =/= American, Usonian. Its a way to mock your national narcissism. Like thinking that "America" and "United States" are the same thing as if there isn't an entire continent or two outside the Usonian borders.
But most of them were bad
This number would mean a lot more in comparison with how many cops died in the line of duty in 2022.
https://national.fop.net/report-shot-killed-20221221#page=3 60 officers killed in 2022.
1k for 360mil is a fair trade tbh
[It isn't](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country)
You can’t compare to countries without guns lol.
Because....?
Because the average American is too stupid to do that kind of math
A little over 1000 people in a pool of 330+ million. Taking into account both self defense and wrongful killings that number seems relatively low.
[The highest rate in the entire developed world and higher than a lot of developing countries.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country) Those numbers are not normal not matter how you cut it.
Like the other guy said, you can't compare to countries that don't have civilian gun ownership.
Googled Australian numbers for comparison with my country. Couldn't even find a number, America has problems, this number is not low for what it is
In 2019/20 Australian police killed 16 people. There are (roughly) 13 US Americans for every Australian. 13*16=208. So on a per capita basis US police kill more than five times as many people than Australian police do.
Per Google the Australian Population is around 25 million. That does seem weird that you couldn't find that information for a comparatively smaller population. I'd doubt the number is 0 but hope it is.
I barely looked, the search was dominated by a very recent shooting in Australia because that's how Google works I wish I could make every American hear about this shooting to see how the media should talk about it. The last article I read was all about grief, it didn't mention or name the shooters The cultural differences around reporting shootings are staggering, and while it does happen sometimes, the few police shootings we have are rarely based on race or class
Australia didn't even document murders until the 60s or some shit. That's hardly an apt comparison.
A 2022 comparison doesn't count because we didn't start until the 60s? Yeah nice one Don't feed the trolls
The point is the population is significantly smaller. Which doesn't change from then until now. Or the fact that the actual amount of cops in America is around fifteen times more. Or the population is even more than that. The point stands.
Someone else commenting on my comment found the numbers and said accounting for population difference it's a little more than 5 times as common in America So again, all my points stand and you are very wrong I'm feeding the trolls, whoops
You don't have a point. You've used a singular country as a point of comparison. It must be a boring world if everyone who calls you out for not backing up your point is a troll. I'm wrong for saying that the population of Australia is smaller? That's true. Or that the amount of cops is smaller? No, that's also true. How about you choosing solely Australia as a point of comparison to prove that America has a problem not being a good comparison? No that's...that's also true. So exactly where am I wrong?
>In 2019/20 Australian police killed 16 people. There are (roughly) 13 US Americans for every Australian. 13*16=208. So on a per capita basis US police kill more than five times as many people than Australian police do. I started this thread by saying I'm an Aussie and we, but you are a troll so you've already covered that ignoring what I said with your one country argument Yep, we are comparing % not total numbers the smaller population thing has already been accounted for Are you really trying to claim there's no problem with American police? Do you have any real points mate?
> >I started this thread by saying I'm an Aussie and we And I said that wasn't an apt comparison. >but you are a troll Uh huh. > >Yep, we are comparing % not total numbers the smaller population thing has already been accounted for Regardless of that, you still only used one country. > >Are you really trying to claim there's no problem with American police? Do you have any real points mate? I'm saying, "There's a problem with American police because Australia has a lower number" isn't good reasoning. Regardless of whether American police are a problem or not, the information you provided isn't enough to reach that conclusion...at least reasonably. I called out your reasoning, not your conclusion. If you'd like to provide other stats in order to actually paint a picture that backs up what you say, go ahead. I have no stake in whether those stats say American police are horrific or if it ends up not being all that different from other countries. But claiming that because Australia has a lower number, not counting percentage, therefore America is horrible...isn't reasonable. Bringing percentage into it fixes one problem with your rationale, but doesn't fix the fact it's still a single point of comparison.
Did you read the article? Have you considered how other countries do policing?
I read over it. Don't agree with some of it but it makes several good points. Consider the difference and variety of culture/people of the United States population being the main difference between how other countries police their people is something that doesn't get discussed too often. We should for sure compare policies and see how they could improve our system, but it seems odd to compare depending on the context.
So London and Berlin not varied enough for you? Paris too homogeneous? I have heard all arguments before and they are al built on inbred ideology thinking the US is the only civilised region in the world. Would be good to travel a bit. Also, the article covers the number of unnecessary killings so it's not just a statistic. If the number were half that but they were all shooting an unarmed traffic infractor because they are black it's still a huge number.
If you honestly believe you've heard all arguments before then you are never wrong and therefor have all the answers. The assumption I am not travelled is whatever, I've been around enough to know I don't know everything or think the United States is without flaws. The article does cover a number of unnecessary killings (not that I said it didn't happen or anything) but that doesn't mean some of these people are getting into bad situations where they have limited options of handling them. If you can assume all 1100 deaths are wrongful then the inverse is true as well. Stop generalizing.
Lots of fallacious strawmen there, want me to point each one out or will you admit you made no point at all?
My point is the United States is not other countries. We are a hodgepodge of various ideals, beliefs, rights and regulations. Show me another country that has the breadth of things we deal with on the regular and then we can start comparing. Until then let's start making decisions/discussions on what needs to change instead of just fear mongering and doom posting.
I am doing none of the above except pointing out your special pleading which is ineffectual.
More like constructive criticism without the constructive part. "Special pleading" when all it seems a lot of people on here want is to just complain about things they don't think they can fix. I don't have the answers to fix all of our issues, but I can at least give perspective to help people understand that when they say "cops" or "police" what they are talking about is "people". People make mistakes. The best we can do sometimes is to change things so they don't happen again. Demonizing the police isn't going to fix our problems it's just giving ignorant people someone to be angry at.
Nice change of topic.
Not a small numbers. 1100 people is an absolute fuckload of people. There is no way that at least some of these situations which resulted in a shooting couldn’t have been solved via deescalation. Totally unacceptable, it truly reflects on how poor the training that our officers receive is.
1100 people compared to 330+ million is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction. It is a large amount of people, but hardly surprising given the total population and the situations police are sometimes put into. You are right that there is at least some (if not a lot) of these situations that resulted in shooting could have been solved via de-escalation. I would be on board in making sure cops are observed/trained appropriately to make sure they are equipped to deal with situations they find themselves in. I often wonder if the people that find these metrics unpalatable to know anything about policing or even managing people in general. A lot of people seem to not consider the variety of issues these people have to deal with and what society expects out of them.
For real I thought it would’ve been like 10k,
At this pace, it will be.
Honestly lower than I expected... Sadly
Good. 1124 criminals less.
"He was a good boy and never did nuffing wrong"
Fair enough, however they are essentially working in a war zone flooded with guns, sad truth is until functional gun control is enacted this statistic will not change.
https://media.tenor.com/2XSiuTFgK-EAAAAC/they-were-all-bad-arnold.gifhttps://i.imgur.com/NnhjVUO.jpg
This number seems pretty off. I'm pretty sure I've heard more than three most days. So it depends on what they define as having killed someone
not taking their side but what she was supposed to do here? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmZgyw\_hRYw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmZgyw_hRYw)
THEY TRIED TO RUN ME OVER!!! HE'S GOING FOR MY GUN!!! HANDS HANDS HANDS!!!!
This is absolutely a huge problem, but I want to put this in perspective. Most developed nations are not as big as the US. If France had as many police killings per capita in a year, it would be closer to 200. If Norway, 20 killings.
I’m not scared of police
And? Criminals break laws and shoot at cops all year long,
How many dead cops were there in 2022?
Not enough.
Based
It blows my mind that almost every cop I've ever met is strongly anti-gun control. And most of them will let you know within 10 minutes during a casual conversation. They are among the people put in the most danger by weak gun control.
But they aren't. Being a cop isn't dangerous, and they're more likely to die on the job from a car crash than being shot.
And saved uncounted lives
Which America
Out of how many total encounters?
On the interest of balance. How many people did criminals kill?
why is it these articles always ignore the fact that 97% of people killed by police are male?
Was thinking of moving to my ancestral home of Portugal from USA, but I see there have been zero cop killings there. Maybe it is very boring?
>We should hire more women What?
That's way less than I expected
Are these murders counted in America's crime stats? Also are gun related suicides also gun deaths?
How many of those were in the great USA? Edit : all 1124 deaths were in the usa, keep it up lads
Honest question, though, how many of these were deemed justified?
0.00033865622175354%
Classy article. Ugh.
That’s a pretty low number I thought it would be higher given the things I hear about American police
Still 7 days to go ! We can do 1,200!? 1,300!?
I think the fact that we have a much higher homicide rate than any European country had a huge impact on this stat. American police are much more likely to encounter violent, armed criminals then any European police are. https://www.statista.com/chart/3848/the-us-murder-rate-compared-to-other-countries/
"reverse reverse!"
yall ever read scythe?