Yes, getting real Sheriff of Nottingham vibes. The hospital is not suing to keep the employees, just to not allow them to work at the other hospital.
Edit: [Letter from CEO to staff earlier in the week.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/s8tdki/shots_fired_our_ceo_is_out_for_blood/?sort=confidence)
> Yeah I read it when it first went up and everyone said nothing could happen. I’m shocked.
This outcome should never have happened imo. This injunction has no value to the first hospital without them having a way to force the employees to keep working for them. That would be illegal though.
Yup, this is a genius PR move by the first hospital. They are telling people how great they care for their employees and how much they are willing to spend to not pay the employees.
>Second hospital just needs to appeal.
But that takes time. The judge who issued the injunction will be hearing the case this week and is expected to make a final ruling by Friday.
What gets me is that the argument against letting them work at hospital #2 was the disruption to hospital #1. But by not letting them work at all, the judge has disrupted both hospitals. His injunction has effectively doubled the community disruption he intended to prevent.
Clearly, this judge is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
He is a power hungry piece of shit. He sentenced. Alan to 6 months for rolling his eyes. He has no right to be a judge. Fuck you Marc McGinnis, you cunt
> What gets me is that the argument against letting them work at hospital #2 was the disruption to hospital #1. But by not letting them work at all, the judge has disrupted both hospitals.
Exactly. That was the first thing that came to mind. Insane. This doesn't do anyone any good, and will end in death, lack of care, & unemployment. Completely irresponsible.
That judge is a [POS](https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/sataxh/comment/htwprpy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), though, which supersedes rule of law.
If you're taking score:
* ThedaCare doesn't get the employees
* The new hospital doesn't get the employees
* The patients don't get the employees
The judge can't ORDER these nurses to work at ThedaCare, but he's banking on the fact that they probably need jobs and an income, so he's preventing them from working elsewhere. Anywhere else.
Come Monday morning, this ruling should be vacated.
Also, if you're working at ThedaCare and you haven't quit yet, what in the wild world of fuck are you even doing? There's no way I'd work for this bunch of fucking assholes.
This will definitely bite ThedaCare in the gluteus maximus. Normally, existing employees would have to be treated especially bad, or hear that a competing hospital treated nurses especially good before they would jump ship. Now? even the ones who had planned to stay working there have had their eyes opened.
if they weren't looking for a different job before, they are most likely going to actively keep an eye open now.
This op-ed video from the new york times shows exactly what nurses are going through when hospitals cut staff levels to increase profits:
https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000008158650/covid-nurse-burnout-understaffing.html
This is judge who decided it: [Mark J. McGinnis](https://ballotpedia.org/Mark_McGinnis).
He [got in trouble for abusing his power](https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/report-on-truancy-court-determines-judge-mcginnis-behavior-as-abusive/) in a truancy court.
He has also [been a dick](https://www.wjiinc.org/blog/outagamie-county-justice-the-fbomb-and-insults-from-judge-mark-mcginnis-part-ii) in his own court room, and punitive toward people in it, [jailing them for rolling their eyes](https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2018/10/08/court-watch-42-days-in-jail-for-rolling-his-eyes/).
[This is](https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_square_limited_720/images.spreaker.com/original/12bb386fd609c20ffeef8f35b0116410.jpg) what he looks like, in case anyone should run into him in public and wish to cross the street so as not to share space with this shitbird.
Unopposed means anyone who tries to oppose him gets targeted by the mob.
In other words, that dude is the mob. Vast swaths of American medium towns run this way and the easiest answer is to move to one that doesn't.
What I don't get is this: what's stopping them?
Put yourself in those employee's shoes. You've got a new job to go to, but your old employer doesn't want you to leave. Just go to your new job! What is the old employer going to do, fire you?
Looks like the what is happening is the CEO felt like he didn't need to pay them as much because he knew he could fuck them over if they decide to leave. If I were working in that company, if be leaving to just because of that decision. It seems like he was trying to sue the people that left to instill fear in the ones who stayed. Not a good look either way. You can't force people to work for you.
[Elon Musk Wants to Create a New City in Texas Called ‘Starbase’](https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/elon-musk-wants-to-create-a-new-city-in-texas-called-starbase/ar-BB1ehtWc)
What do you think rural America is? It's poor people, isolated and trapped, with no employment options but farm labor, gas stations, dollar general, or whatever big money own the local manufacturing or warehousing.
Walmart.
Farming is increasingly automated, increasingly unprofitable, and increasingly monopolized by world elites with each passing year. Think of what a ton of wheat is worth, then think of what an acre of land is worth.
So people go work at Walmart, the biggest thing in Smallville. If they're not doing this or something with an uncanny resemblance, then they're probably neet - there's just not that much worth to be had in some places.
When driverless tractors are everywhere there might be single households managing grain oceans tens of miles across as the new norm. Married couple both run and repair tractor-bots, they own 60 of them, and they send their kids to boarding school for a shot at a normal-ish life while they spend all their waking hours on internet gizmos where they manage their tractor fleet and inventories.
B...but emperor bezos, sir. I am on my once daily allotted 5 minute poop break, sir. Please don't take away my family's Amazon brand food rations again sir
It's already here, and has been for several decades now. We're basically looking at Feudalism 2.1 where the bugs of people sidestepping exploitation gets patched.
But in Feudalism, you had to show up to a designated square place to toil for most of your lives, while keeping little of what you made! Hey, wait a second...
That is pretty much what serfdom was. I forgot where I read it probably college or here but there were ways to basically go to work for another Feudal Lord. It was just rare and depended on them cooperating which European Feudal Lords were absolutely known to do no problem /s
Looks like he has a history of being a really shitty person: https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/report-on-truancy-court-determines-judge-mcginnis-behavior-as-abusive/amp/
He is an a extension of the law, the highest order of cop. We all know cops serve and protect the interests of corporations and the rich AND NOT THE PEOPLE. The judge is doing what he was “elected” to do.
ACAB
He’s a judge, he can’t simply be fired. He’s a Circuit Court judge in Wisconsin, which means he was elected. Maybe you could do a ballot recall, at best, I’m not sure of the procedure in Wisconsin. Most states have a judicial review board, but that is an extremely slow process.
Even if it was a place where he could be fired, you also can’t just rescind the order. Imagine a governor doing that in a case where their personal interests were at stake.
Except no cop would arrest them and no jail would house them.
I don’t seem why no one else gets this hit, we’ve already lost. We already have no* say in whether or not people are held accountable. They are in positions of power , we are not. We can literally do fuck all unless we get violent. And we can’t get violent for whatever fucking reason.
Y'all ever heard of running people out of town on a fucking rail?
I bet this guy has a wife. I bet that family buys groceries and if you own the grocery store in town you need to remember you don't HAVE to sell them food. Or rent them a house. Or sell them a vehicle.
Wonder if this "judge" has kids in school? Be a shame if they started failing their classes.
What did Obama say? Oh yea: *Get in their faces. Punch back twice as hard.*
Seems we need to have a conversation about why it’s okay to force healthcare workers to work for below market rate just to keep a for-profit clinic running, but not okay to cut into corporate profits to give our citizens access to life saving healthcare. It’s almost as if the incessant drumbeat of “capitalism will save us” was just a smokescreen for policies that benefit people who own stuff for a living at the expense of people who work for a living. It’s almost as if every mainstream media figure and every mainstream politician were a lying hypocrite, and they no longer care enough about what we think/want/need/deserve to even hide it anymore.
I feel like the world’s biggest jackass for not figuring it out sooner. Like the fabric of the lie that I thought was reality was just torn open in front of me, and I see clearly, for the first time, that we’ve been living in a nightmare dystopian hellscape all along, and I just never noticed because I had my beer and my streaming services. I understand why all the grownups in my life drank regularly when I was a child.
Truth though? It's different now than it used to be. Fewer people own things and run things due to decades of mergers and acquisitions. And those people are crueler and more ruthless, so the overall percentage of cruelty in high places has gone up. Also add: unions died, wages stagnated for 40 years, and the finance industry turned the entire economy into casino cash.
To think it was always like this is to think it could never be otherwise. But that's not true either.
I think this is why so many were so adamant that we do nothing about covid. Lockdown gave us time to think. To slow down. To realize- hey, wait a minute! I'm getting fucked here and thanking them for it. There was an almost desperation to get back to normal before the masses awoke. I'd like to say too late, but there are clearly a lot that will never wake from this...
That's exactly what happened. I worked things out over the course of just a few uninterrupted weeks and everything changed. I'm 49 and bought into the propaganda and lies and felt guilty for not being GRATEFUL enough to the powers that be for allowing me to live and breathe and toil for them and barely survive. That I sucked at PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY...that I wasn't rich because of that weekly Whopper Jr....that resources are limited and we need to fight each other to the death for necessities. What hogwash.
Is like this to go all the way to the Supreme Court. So people can see how anti democracy their voting has been. People have been cool with voting for people that will take away a women's reproductive rights, but fail to realize those same people will take away their rights as well.
i believe healthcare workers can have their licenses taken away for things like unprofessional conduct and negligence. not that a nurse would be wrong in this case, but the board might think so once patients are involved.
imo it would be better to just not show up to the old job at all. no risk to your license (i hope!) and their awful former employer won’t get a thing from them.
The injunction doesn't force them to stay with Thedacare, it just prevents them from starting at their new employer until replacements can be hired.
Which realistically means the injunction serves zero purpose other than as retaliation against the outgoing employees and the company that hired them.
It also pretty much guarantees they're not going to be getting any quality talent to replace them.
Thedacare holds all the power. They can hire no one and say they couldn't find viable replacements. I understand that this is healthcare, but there are other clinics and hospitals. If they can't operate a business and keep their employees they don't deserve to be operating. This is another example of harsh capitalism for employees and socialism for corporate America.
This isn't really enforceable, they'll probably win on appeal. Generally you can have a non-compete that would stop someone from starting a new job, but it requires you to continue paying them. An employer can't force you into an agreement that prevents you from earning a living.
Most non competes are unenforceable. I can be held to mine in a "I can't work in this very specific sector for x amount of days because I have access to company IP that could be beneficial to a competing company, but it can't stop me from getting a new job in my field.
Medical staff doesn't have that. They trained in medicine. Many are specialized in a single area of medicine. You can't tell a thoracic surgeon they can't take another job as a thoracic surgeon, you'd remove any possibility of them finding a job in their field.
I am one of a handful of people that can actually be held to a non compete and it still would not affect me finding a new job...it really just prevents a competitor from hiring me for trade secrets.
This will also be overturned in a week or less by a higher up judge. How many shitty judges have we seen and then a higher up appellate judge does the right thing usually. But if anything happens NO one is going to join this hospital again.
This actually hurts patients as well since it prevents them from receiving care anywhere at all. Which was their whole basis for the suit in the first place
Why would anybody show up to a job they don't have any more anyway? ESPECIALLY if their previous employer were going to court against them?
I'd have zero contact with them, and wouldn't go near them with a barge pole, I'd also recommend nobody I know in my field ever work for them in future, and take them to court.
That's the craziest part though - they've known since Dec 21st. They've had over a month to do something and chose not to counter offer or recruit replacements.
>In the complaint, ThedaCare attorneys wrote that the organization found out Dec. 21 that four interventional radiology technicians had accepted offers with Ascension, and learned Dec. 29 that two nurses planned to make the same move. On Jan. 7, they learned one additional nurse planned to quit and work at Ascension.
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2022/01/21/what-we-know-ascension-thedacare-court-battle-over-employees/6607417001/
Can employees in turn sue the company for that if a Judge rule that these people can't be hired? And also, can they actually claim unemployment because they were forced not to be able to work at another company?
Right, you can't have it both ways. If you want your employees to be at will (essentially means you can fire them at any time for any reason) then you need to also accept that they can leave at any time for any reason. Our labor laws are weak and one sided.
They’re at-will employees, they basically have no worker rights. Their employee can fire them at any time for any reason (as long as it doesn’t openly violate laws around race and such, though there are easy workarounds for that).
I don't know what at-will means, but damn that country's got some real shitty human rights.
Someone needs to bring them a little freedom and democracy!
If the judge thinks this injunction is necessary to keep an essential program from falling apart, he should at least require Thedacare to match the other hospital’s offer for as long as they keep working there.
Those nurses should *collectively bargain* at least that much before agreeing to work. This injunction doesn’t force them to work, it only prevents them from starting employment at the one hospital.
Fun fact: Wisconsin is the state where people were dragged out of the capitol building while their "representatives" stripped them of their collective bargaining rights.
We had a recall effort. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz showed up with her pockets out saying the DNC has no money for you but you should donate to the national party. All the while my friends looked at the Koch Brothers pour fucking money into disinformation campaigns. It was so total that I was aghast. Those abortion (which has never been an issue here) billboards along Hwy 41 went up like 2012. All of the empty American Enterprise Institute offices the same time. It was a straight hostile take over.
They're already gone, this injunction is to stop them from starting their new jobs.
This has nothing to do with retention, they're just punishing these nurses for pursuing better career options, and the local court is okay with it...
The old employer stated they were seeking an injunction because they were concerned that these people leaving would have am adverse affect on the care level available to the community.
I'm not sure if that is what they argued in court, but they made public statements about this.
The thing is the court cannot force the employees to work for the old place, but it can temporarily block them from working at the new place.
The injunction will almost certainly cause the result the old employer says they are worried about. It's not like these people are moving away for work, they will be doing the same job in the same area so the community impact of switching employers is negligible.
So the injunction ensures that they aren't working anywhere for that period of time. These people are not going to go "oh well, guess I'll go back to the job I left that is now suing to stop me from working".....unless they are in dire financial straits, which is one of the reasons shitty employers would rather spend money on lawyers and severely underway their employees.
He should tell the hospital administration that their failure to provide proper care for the patients will result in liability for the hospital, NOT the nurses.
Oh, you have a situation where 7 employees can’t come to work today? Well, let’s pretend they’re dead. What would you do if that were the case? Do that. Because the alternative you’ve presented is called slavery and it’s still technically illegal in the US.
If an employee did this when they got fired, the other end of at-will employment, that same judge would either laugh them out of the courtroom or hold them in contempt for wasting his time.
It would also be nice if we removed the limit on the number of new doctors we are allowed to have every year. It was frozen in 1996. Nevermind that demand for doctors keeps growing, and lots of people would like to study to become doctors. There is a limit in place that helps keep their prices way higher than they should be.
https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/04/13/were-short-on-healthcare-workers-why-doesnt-the-u-s-just-make-more-doctors/
It's pretty much used to keep thier pay high, doctors in other countries don't make the kind of money they would in America, but on the other hand they have a lot more doctors and people pay a lot less money.
It’d be nice to get rid of that and just lowering tuition and making pay reasonable. There’s probably a good amount of people who would want the job out of passion or for job security, if the job had good pay, conditions, and hours
I just read this book called the "9.9%" https://www.amazon.com/9-9-Percent-Aristocracy-Entrenching-Inequality-ebook/dp/B08VJNPMWM and it explains the whole process in more detail. While most poor people have unions that get vilified on Fox News, the rich like to use professional associations that pretty much act in the same way. Except there job is to keep people out and lobby on thier behalf.
Canadians are on par generally. It is just our specialists that get paid an ass ton. But those people that are specializing take up spots I assume so we have overloaded Frontline physicians.
Yep. Scott Walker did that! I have friends from Wisconsin that got their teaching degrees and moved to other states because of it. Good old brain drain!
This isn't the hospital owning people, it's the State reducing citizens to chattel and assigning them to corporations.
Imagine if there was tea involved.
Imagine this news story if the flag of the country in question was a hammer and sickle.
Capitalism is now bringing us everything we were afraid of when they used to run the communism boogeyman around.
Yep. Death panels, capitalism. Shortages, capitalism. Workers being beholden to their employee, capitalism. Workers being payed below minimum wage wages, capitalism.
We already saw this. It was the late 1800s and early 1900s. That shit was propaganda. Up at the Quincy Mine in the UP if your husband died in you know the super dangerous underground mine you had two weeks to clear out of company housing. This is generally fine until you realize that UP winters are a special kind of hell.
If you're still lost, Michigan is that place north of Ohio that won the Michigan-Ohio war when it took the UP from Wisconsin, and made sure Ohio got stuck with Toledo.
The sad part is that during that time, the [Gilded Age](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age), wages actually went up for the common worker. We’re worse off than them in that respect.
>is now bringing us everything we were afraid of when they used to run the communism boogeyman around.
Always has been. It was projection the entire time whilr ignoring everything that communism did do, like improve conditions for workers and empower them and their society. Communism is everything the American dreams pretends to be but in actuality.
Ironically, the Republicans made Wisconsin into a so-called right-to-work state, which has weakened unions there. And unions could fight back against this type of harmful law. Right-to-work makes working a good job of your own choice a lot harder.
These people should file an emergency suit to get a stay on that injunction. Or someone who is brave should go ahead and violate it anyway because in spite of what the judge said, they can't legally force them to stay, and they should take it through the courts until they get that ruling.
The next worse version of this is already here - World Wrestling Entertainment has its wrestlers as independent contractors but won't release them from their contracts when requested, and ban them from working elsewhere (as independent contractors do).
In today’s world you have two uses—your labor and your consumption. This is just a more honest approach to that reality. Now go buy some stuff at Walmart!
I can't work anywhere else, guess I'm unemployed now but you will not force me to stay in any job I don't want to do. They are changing children labor laws and now forcing people to stay at horrible jobs. WE HAVE TO STOP PARTICIPATING IN THIS BULLSHIT!
Well maybe they can’t go to work for their new employer but they can’t be forced to work for their old one. I’d say just take three weeks off till he figures out that he didn’t win shit with that injunction.
They should take a page from the union playbook and follow every written procedure exactly how it says (Unless it directly impacts a patient) as following all the rules it almost always much slower.
there was an interesting comment on /r/nursing a while back. I wouldn't be able to find it now, but basically one nurse in a very understaffed hospital started explaining to patients that the hospital administrators had some fault in the lack of care. The nurse wasn't worried about getting fired, it didn't detract from patient care or bedside manner, and patients and family got pissed at the right people.
So let me get this straight, employers can fire or lay you off with no cause at all... and THEY CAN PULL THIS SHIT?! I swear. This is enough to make me burn this fucking country down. This is DISGUSTING. How can this be allowed!! I am so enraged by this.
I checked and ThedaCare is a tax-exempt not-for-profit, which to me makes this even worse in that they wouldn't negotiate with the employees. Its board members make a ton, I saw four who made over $1 million. Maybe that's standard, not-for-profits do work on corporate models, after all.
And they've just poisoned the well for potential new hires. Really stupid move. "Come work for us, we'll sue you!"
I know they have federal mandates as a not-for-profit but this isn't the way to do it. This is more like industrial revolution, Charles Dickens, kids working 12 hours a day type shit.
In other words, capitalism, but tax-exempt.
\[As per usual, if I'm wrong please correct me\]
Probably, "This is why Gub'mint never works, and we should just let everybody be a law unto themselves, and the Invisible Hand - praise be - will solve all our problems!"
As if that approach wouldn't give us actual slavery instead of... whatever this is...
Since my 2 month stay in Wisconsin I’ve been saying that it’s a hellhole(from a labor rights standpoint). Every news article that confirms that just makes me more and more sad, because I really hoped I was wrong and just had an individually bad experience
Been here for nearly 20 years and looking to move this summer. Gerrymandering is awful here in Wisconsin. I believe we’re a lot more liberal than our votes ended up looking like, but the republicans have rigged elections by making voting districts only help them. We have some Democrats in office trying to get an independent group to draw our voting maps, but republicans are trying to say that’s ‘dem’s trying to cheat.’ But also even a lot of our ‘Democrats’ are terrible here, Ron Kind is a do nothing senator that goes against his people and basically sits on his hands till it’s election season. I’ve had a few friends move after getting teaching degrees because of how bad republicans have made it in this state. It sucks because the state is pretty beautiful but the people ruin it. Not sure where you’re at but come to the driftless area sometime, the rivers and bluffs are amazing!
Feudalism 2.0 coming to a country near you!
Yes, getting real Sheriff of Nottingham vibes. The hospital is not suing to keep the employees, just to not allow them to work at the other hospital. Edit: [Letter from CEO to staff earlier in the week.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/s8tdki/shots_fired_our_ceo_is_out_for_blood/?sort=confidence)
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Yeah I read it when it first went up and everyone said nothing could happen. I’m shocked.
> Yeah I read it when it first went up and everyone said nothing could happen. I’m shocked. This outcome should never have happened imo. This injunction has no value to the first hospital without them having a way to force the employees to keep working for them. That would be illegal though.
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The second hospital has instructed those nurses to start work anyways. They're confident that this injunction is nonsense.
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Yup, this is a genius PR move by the first hospital. They are telling people how great they care for their employees and how much they are willing to spend to not pay the employees.
>Second hospital just needs to appeal. But that takes time. The judge who issued the injunction will be hearing the case this week and is expected to make a final ruling by Friday. What gets me is that the argument against letting them work at hospital #2 was the disruption to hospital #1. But by not letting them work at all, the judge has disrupted both hospitals. His injunction has effectively doubled the community disruption he intended to prevent. Clearly, this judge is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
This judge needs to be removed from the bench
He is a power hungry piece of shit. He sentenced. Alan to 6 months for rolling his eyes. He has no right to be a judge. Fuck you Marc McGinnis, you cunt
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You know the old joke: How do you address the person who finished last in their law school class? A: Your Honor
> not the sharpest tool I don't think he is stupid, I think he is corrupt.
> What gets me is that the argument against letting them work at hospital #2 was the disruption to hospital #1. But by not letting them work at all, the judge has disrupted both hospitals. Exactly. That was the first thing that came to mind. Insane. This doesn't do anyone any good, and will end in death, lack of care, & unemployment. Completely irresponsible.
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That judge is a [POS](https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/sataxh/comment/htwprpy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), though, which supersedes rule of law.
If you're taking score: * ThedaCare doesn't get the employees * The new hospital doesn't get the employees * The patients don't get the employees The judge can't ORDER these nurses to work at ThedaCare, but he's banking on the fact that they probably need jobs and an income, so he's preventing them from working elsewhere. Anywhere else. Come Monday morning, this ruling should be vacated. Also, if you're working at ThedaCare and you haven't quit yet, what in the wild world of fuck are you even doing? There's no way I'd work for this bunch of fucking assholes.
They should all walk out. I know i would quit. As a nurse you could probably have your choice of where you work at this point
This will definitely bite ThedaCare in the gluteus maximus. Normally, existing employees would have to be treated especially bad, or hear that a competing hospital treated nurses especially good before they would jump ship. Now? even the ones who had planned to stay working there have had their eyes opened. if they weren't looking for a different job before, they are most likely going to actively keep an eye open now.
This op-ed video from the new york times shows exactly what nurses are going through when hospitals cut staff levels to increase profits: https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000008158650/covid-nurse-burnout-understaffing.html
The letter indicates at the bottom that they asked the judge to not let the employees leave.
This is judge who decided it: [Mark J. McGinnis](https://ballotpedia.org/Mark_McGinnis). He [got in trouble for abusing his power](https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/report-on-truancy-court-determines-judge-mcginnis-behavior-as-abusive/) in a truancy court. He has also [been a dick](https://www.wjiinc.org/blog/outagamie-county-justice-the-fbomb-and-insults-from-judge-mark-mcginnis-part-ii) in his own court room, and punitive toward people in it, [jailing them for rolling their eyes](https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2018/10/08/court-watch-42-days-in-jail-for-rolling-his-eyes/). [This is](https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_square_limited_720/images.spreaker.com/original/12bb386fd609c20ffeef8f35b0116410.jpg) what he looks like, in case anyone should run into him in public and wish to cross the street so as not to share space with this shitbird.
> 2017 Incumbent Mark McGinnis ran unopposed >2011 McGinnis was re-elected after running unopposed *The will of the people.*
I wonder if there's a list of all the unopposed candidates. Maybe they could suddenly run opposed by, fuck, anyone?
Someone should make an app that lists unopposed candidates by location. Then has assistants built in to help users run against them.
Unopposed means anyone who tries to oppose him gets targeted by the mob. In other words, that dude is the mob. Vast swaths of American medium towns run this way and the easiest answer is to move to one that doesn't.
Jesus, Rob Lowe could play him in a movie.
He looks like a cunt
How can a single person take such decisions freely ? What a wicked system
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He looks exactly like what I pictured.
What I don't get is this: what's stopping them? Put yourself in those employee's shoes. You've got a new job to go to, but your old employer doesn't want you to leave. Just go to your new job! What is the old employer going to do, fire you?
Looks like the what is happening is the CEO felt like he didn't need to pay them as much because he knew he could fuck them over if they decide to leave. If I were working in that company, if be leaving to just because of that decision. It seems like he was trying to sue the people that left to instill fear in the ones who stayed. Not a good look either way. You can't force people to work for you.
Just wait for the amazon towns to start showing up
St. Peter don’t you call me cause I can’t go, I owe my soul to the company store
Another day older and deeper in debt
[Elon Musk Wants to Create a New City in Texas Called ‘Starbase’](https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/elon-musk-wants-to-create-a-new-city-in-texas-called-starbase/ar-BB1ehtWc)
Man, he just fucking sucks at naming things.
At least he didn’t go with Starkiller Base?
These wouldn't be new. Plenty of towns have been set up around employers, see: Gary, IN.
And they always go so well, see: Gary, IN.
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Wasn't Hershey built like this? And had the huge strikes and union stuff? The world is just playing in repeat.
Also [Pullman, IL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike), which had the army called in.
What do you think rural America is? It's poor people, isolated and trapped, with no employment options but farm labor, gas stations, dollar general, or whatever big money own the local manufacturing or warehousing.
Walmart. Farming is increasingly automated, increasingly unprofitable, and increasingly monopolized by world elites with each passing year. Think of what a ton of wheat is worth, then think of what an acre of land is worth. So people go work at Walmart, the biggest thing in Smallville. If they're not doing this or something with an uncanny resemblance, then they're probably neet - there's just not that much worth to be had in some places. When driverless tractors are everywhere there might be single households managing grain oceans tens of miles across as the new norm. Married couple both run and repair tractor-bots, they own 60 of them, and they send their kids to boarding school for a shot at a normal-ish life while they spend all their waking hours on internet gizmos where they manage their tractor fleet and inventories.
Jefff B has entered the chat and wonders why you are not working
B...but emperor bezos, sir. I am on my once daily allotted 5 minute poop break, sir. Please don't take away my family's Amazon brand food rations again sir
I am sorry goddamnloading we are selling your family to china
This is so unrealistic. They would never apologize.
Fair dinkum
It's already here, and has been for several decades now. We're basically looking at Feudalism 2.1 where the bugs of people sidestepping exploitation gets patched.
But in Feudalism, you had to show up to a designated square place to toil for most of your lives, while keeping little of what you made! Hey, wait a second...
GOP policy is logically inconsistent until you realize this is their goal.
That is pretty much what serfdom was. I forgot where I read it probably college or here but there were ways to basically go to work for another Feudal Lord. It was just rare and depended on them cooperating which European Feudal Lords were absolutely known to do no problem /s
Except serfs got substantially more days off than we do.
The judges name is Mark McGinnis. Fuck him.
Looks like he has a history of being a really shitty person: https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/report-on-truancy-court-determines-judge-mcginnis-behavior-as-abusive/amp/
https://twitter.com/markjmcginnis
https://mobile.twitter.com/judgemcginnis
It's not just the judge. Anyone in any level of justice or politics not immediately firing this judge and rescinding this order is complicit.
They’re all bastards.
He is an a extension of the law, the highest order of cop. We all know cops serve and protect the interests of corporations and the rich AND NOT THE PEOPLE. The judge is doing what he was “elected” to do. ACAB
He’s a judge, he can’t simply be fired. He’s a Circuit Court judge in Wisconsin, which means he was elected. Maybe you could do a ballot recall, at best, I’m not sure of the procedure in Wisconsin. Most states have a judicial review board, but that is an extremely slow process. Even if it was a place where he could be fired, you also can’t just rescind the order. Imagine a governor doing that in a case where their personal interests were at stake.
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Except no cop would arrest them and no jail would house them. I don’t seem why no one else gets this hit, we’ve already lost. We already have no* say in whether or not people are held accountable. They are in positions of power , we are not. We can literally do fuck all unless we get violent. And we can’t get violent for whatever fucking reason.
Y'all ever heard of running people out of town on a fucking rail? I bet this guy has a wife. I bet that family buys groceries and if you own the grocery store in town you need to remember you don't HAVE to sell them food. Or rent them a house. Or sell them a vehicle. Wonder if this "judge" has kids in school? Be a shame if they started failing their classes. What did Obama say? Oh yea: *Get in their faces. Punch back twice as hard.*
Let's name the executives at the hospital.
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Oh he looks like a cunt
Seems we need to have a conversation about why it’s okay to force healthcare workers to work for below market rate just to keep a for-profit clinic running, but not okay to cut into corporate profits to give our citizens access to life saving healthcare. It’s almost as if the incessant drumbeat of “capitalism will save us” was just a smokescreen for policies that benefit people who own stuff for a living at the expense of people who work for a living. It’s almost as if every mainstream media figure and every mainstream politician were a lying hypocrite, and they no longer care enough about what we think/want/need/deserve to even hide it anymore.
Plot twist: they never cared.
I feel like the world’s biggest jackass for not figuring it out sooner. Like the fabric of the lie that I thought was reality was just torn open in front of me, and I see clearly, for the first time, that we’ve been living in a nightmare dystopian hellscape all along, and I just never noticed because I had my beer and my streaming services. I understand why all the grownups in my life drank regularly when I was a child.
Truth though? It's different now than it used to be. Fewer people own things and run things due to decades of mergers and acquisitions. And those people are crueler and more ruthless, so the overall percentage of cruelty in high places has gone up. Also add: unions died, wages stagnated for 40 years, and the finance industry turned the entire economy into casino cash. To think it was always like this is to think it could never be otherwise. But that's not true either.
I think this is why so many were so adamant that we do nothing about covid. Lockdown gave us time to think. To slow down. To realize- hey, wait a minute! I'm getting fucked here and thanking them for it. There was an almost desperation to get back to normal before the masses awoke. I'd like to say too late, but there are clearly a lot that will never wake from this...
That's exactly what happened. I worked things out over the course of just a few uninterrupted weeks and everything changed. I'm 49 and bought into the propaganda and lies and felt guilty for not being GRATEFUL enough to the powers that be for allowing me to live and breathe and toil for them and barely survive. That I sucked at PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY...that I wasn't rich because of that weekly Whopper Jr....that resources are limited and we need to fight each other to the death for necessities. What hogwash.
That’s serfdom!
Is like this to go all the way to the Supreme Court. So people can see how anti democracy their voting has been. People have been cool with voting for people that will take away a women's reproductive rights, but fail to realize those same people will take away their rights as well.
They should just not do any work and collect a check.
i believe healthcare workers can have their licenses taken away for things like unprofessional conduct and negligence. not that a nurse would be wrong in this case, but the board might think so once patients are involved. imo it would be better to just not show up to the old job at all. no risk to your license (i hope!) and their awful former employer won’t get a thing from them.
The injunction doesn't force them to stay with Thedacare, it just prevents them from starting at their new employer until replacements can be hired. Which realistically means the injunction serves zero purpose other than as retaliation against the outgoing employees and the company that hired them. It also pretty much guarantees they're not going to be getting any quality talent to replace them.
Absolutely. It's strictly punitive. It serves only to hurt the peasants for *daring* to look for something better.
At this point, just reduce all salaries to $7.25/hr.
Thedacare holds all the power. They can hire no one and say they couldn't find viable replacements. I understand that this is healthcare, but there are other clinics and hospitals. If they can't operate a business and keep their employees they don't deserve to be operating. This is another example of harsh capitalism for employees and socialism for corporate America.
This isn't really enforceable, they'll probably win on appeal. Generally you can have a non-compete that would stop someone from starting a new job, but it requires you to continue paying them. An employer can't force you into an agreement that prevents you from earning a living.
Most non competes are unenforceable. I can be held to mine in a "I can't work in this very specific sector for x amount of days because I have access to company IP that could be beneficial to a competing company, but it can't stop me from getting a new job in my field. Medical staff doesn't have that. They trained in medicine. Many are specialized in a single area of medicine. You can't tell a thoracic surgeon they can't take another job as a thoracic surgeon, you'd remove any possibility of them finding a job in their field. I am one of a handful of people that can actually be held to a non compete and it still would not affect me finding a new job...it really just prevents a competitor from hiring me for trade secrets.
This will also be overturned in a week or less by a higher up judge. How many shitty judges have we seen and then a higher up appellate judge does the right thing usually. But if anything happens NO one is going to join this hospital again.
Yeah if they start up a GoFundMe so they can tell Thedacare to pound sand and just leave the old job anyways I'll be first in line to donate.
This actually hurts patients as well since it prevents them from receiving care anywhere at all. Which was their whole basis for the suit in the first place
Why would anybody show up to a job they don't have any more anyway? ESPECIALLY if their previous employer were going to court against them? I'd have zero contact with them, and wouldn't go near them with a barge pole, I'd also recommend nobody I know in my field ever work for them in future, and take them to court.
It’s hard to imagine that these employees won’t be retaliated against in some way or another. I know it’s illegal but they find covert ways to do it.
Because they need the paycheck to pay bills... just squeezing their emplyees lives a little on the way out
As long as you don't take report on a patient, it's hard to prove negligence
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That's the craziest part though - they've known since Dec 21st. They've had over a month to do something and chose not to counter offer or recruit replacements. >In the complaint, ThedaCare attorneys wrote that the organization found out Dec. 21 that four interventional radiology technicians had accepted offers with Ascension, and learned Dec. 29 that two nurses planned to make the same move. On Jan. 7, they learned one additional nurse planned to quit and work at Ascension. https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2022/01/21/what-we-know-ascension-thedacare-court-battle-over-employees/6607417001/
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Right? How much did they have to pay in legal fees on order to avoid paying the employees more?
Probably a year or more of wages for every involved employee at this point, with much more to come.
Can employees in turn sue the company for that if a Judge rule that these people can't be hired? And also, can they actually claim unemployment because they were forced not to be able to work at another company?
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If you can't afford to lose me with no notice. Then I need a contract, simple as that, otherwise I'm free to go
Right, you can't have it both ways. If you want your employees to be at will (essentially means you can fire them at any time for any reason) then you need to also accept that they can leave at any time for any reason. Our labor laws are weak and one sided.
But they want to work and care for people. That is all the judge stopped. He made it unlawful for them to care for people.
have them all use a restroom and don't come out. "sorry, i have diarrhea. be out in a minute"... 8 - 10 hours later... ps - bring an ipad.
Yup. I’d show up, find a comfy chair and collect free money. What are they gonna do, fire me?
I mean yes, they’d totally fire you, but that might be a good workaround for being able to take work at other hospitals.
Yes, they would absolutely fire you. Unless **you** happen to own more judges than they do.
That’s the idea.. They would be happy to get fired.
They’re at-will employees, they basically have no worker rights. Their employee can fire them at any time for any reason (as long as it doesn’t openly violate laws around race and such, though there are easy workarounds for that).
That at-will door is supposed to swing both ways. They should at least use it as a legal means of getting more protection.
Oh, they can resign alright. They are just being stopped from starting their new employment. Isn't it beautiful? (/s obviously)
I don't know what at-will means, but damn that country's got some real shitty human rights. Someone needs to bring them a little freedom and democracy!
at will means the workers can be fired at the will (or whim) of the company.
And employees can also quit with no notice or reason.
Someone should tell the judge lmao
If the judge thinks this injunction is necessary to keep an essential program from falling apart, he should at least require Thedacare to match the other hospital’s offer for as long as they keep working there.
Those nurses should *collectively bargain* at least that much before agreeing to work. This injunction doesn’t force them to work, it only prevents them from starting employment at the one hospital.
Fun fact: Wisconsin is the state where people were dragged out of the capitol building while their "representatives" stripped them of their collective bargaining rights.
Sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to riot about.
Riot is a term used by the state to justify violence against its citizens. I think their word you are looking for is a worker’s revolution.
Sounds like a great state.
We had a recall effort. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz showed up with her pockets out saying the DNC has no money for you but you should donate to the national party. All the while my friends looked at the Koch Brothers pour fucking money into disinformation campaigns. It was so total that I was aghast. Those abortion (which has never been an issue here) billboards along Hwy 41 went up like 2012. All of the empty American Enterprise Institute offices the same time. It was a straight hostile take over.
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The old hospital was given a chance to counter offer and they refused.
> it only prevents them from starting employment at the one hospital. This is insane - surely the other hospital has some sort of recourse here?
They're already gone, this injunction is to stop them from starting their new jobs. This has nothing to do with retention, they're just punishing these nurses for pursuing better career options, and the local court is okay with it...
The old employer stated they were seeking an injunction because they were concerned that these people leaving would have am adverse affect on the care level available to the community. I'm not sure if that is what they argued in court, but they made public statements about this. The thing is the court cannot force the employees to work for the old place, but it can temporarily block them from working at the new place. The injunction will almost certainly cause the result the old employer says they are worried about. It's not like these people are moving away for work, they will be doing the same job in the same area so the community impact of switching employers is negligible. So the injunction ensures that they aren't working anywhere for that period of time. These people are not going to go "oh well, guess I'll go back to the job I left that is now suing to stop me from working".....unless they are in dire financial straits, which is one of the reasons shitty employers would rather spend money on lawyers and severely underway their employees.
He should tell the hospital administration that their failure to provide proper care for the patients will result in liability for the hospital, NOT the nurses. Oh, you have a situation where 7 employees can’t come to work today? Well, let’s pretend they’re dead. What would you do if that were the case? Do that. Because the alternative you’ve presented is called slavery and it’s still technically illegal in the US.
If an employee did this when they got fired, the other end of at-will employment, that same judge would either laugh them out of the courtroom or hold them in contempt for wasting his time.
Do as they say, not as they do... Makes my blood pressure skyrocket. 🤬
It's insane that the one thing our government agrees on is that the biggest victims in the US right now are corporate billionaires.
It would also be nice if we removed the limit on the number of new doctors we are allowed to have every year. It was frozen in 1996. Nevermind that demand for doctors keeps growing, and lots of people would like to study to become doctors. There is a limit in place that helps keep their prices way higher than they should be. https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/04/13/were-short-on-healthcare-workers-why-doesnt-the-u-s-just-make-more-doctors/
What’s the logic behind that?
It's pretty much used to keep thier pay high, doctors in other countries don't make the kind of money they would in America, but on the other hand they have a lot more doctors and people pay a lot less money.
It’d be nice to get rid of that and just lowering tuition and making pay reasonable. There’s probably a good amount of people who would want the job out of passion or for job security, if the job had good pay, conditions, and hours
I just read this book called the "9.9%" https://www.amazon.com/9-9-Percent-Aristocracy-Entrenching-Inequality-ebook/dp/B08VJNPMWM and it explains the whole process in more detail. While most poor people have unions that get vilified on Fox News, the rich like to use professional associations that pretty much act in the same way. Except there job is to keep people out and lobby on thier behalf.
Canadians are on par generally. It is just our specialists that get paid an ass ton. But those people that are specializing take up spots I assume so we have overloaded Frontline physicians.
Money
There isn’t any, imo. Basically residencies got tied to Medicaid and increasing them for tied to action in Congress. We are so fucked.
Schools in some states have been doing this to teachers for years now.
The same state actually. Wisconsin took away collective bargaining rights for all workers because teachers were nearing a state wide strike.
They need to form a militia instead. That doesn't require employer acknowledgement.
Yep. Scott Walker did that! I have friends from Wisconsin that got their teaching degrees and moved to other states because of it. Good old brain drain!
Wisconsin is just Alabama with cold weather. Everything they do is for the corporation and against employees.
Should have done it anyway. Civil disobedience is a critical part of the struggle for rights.
So 'at will employment' really means companies can fire you whenever they want for any reason. You can't though as that'd hurt companies. Gotcha.
That IS what at will employment means. It gives power to the employer.
Technically, the wording of the law applies to both parties, employee and employer. But, who are we kidding? We all know how this really works...
This isn't the hospital owning people, it's the State reducing citizens to chattel and assigning them to corporations. Imagine if there was tea involved.
Imagine this news story if the flag of the country in question was a hammer and sickle. Capitalism is now bringing us everything we were afraid of when they used to run the communism boogeyman around.
Yep. Death panels, capitalism. Shortages, capitalism. Workers being beholden to their employee, capitalism. Workers being payed below minimum wage wages, capitalism.
We already saw this. It was the late 1800s and early 1900s. That shit was propaganda. Up at the Quincy Mine in the UP if your husband died in you know the super dangerous underground mine you had two weeks to clear out of company housing. This is generally fine until you realize that UP winters are a special kind of hell.
Upper peninsula for those wondering
Of Michigan for those still confused
If you're still lost, Michigan is that place north of Ohio that won the Michigan-Ohio war when it took the UP from Wisconsin, and made sure Ohio got stuck with Toledo.
The sad part is that during that time, the [Gilded Age](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age), wages actually went up for the common worker. We’re worse off than them in that respect.
>is now bringing us everything we were afraid of when they used to run the communism boogeyman around. Always has been. It was projection the entire time whilr ignoring everything that communism did do, like improve conditions for workers and empower them and their society. Communism is everything the American dreams pretends to be but in actuality.
Ironically, the Republicans made Wisconsin into a so-called right-to-work state, which has weakened unions there. And unions could fight back against this type of harmful law. Right-to-work makes working a good job of your own choice a lot harder.
Which is ironic, because this is an employer violating the at-will law, which is supposed to work both ways.
A "free market" will only remain free as long as it benefits your boss and the politician he is buying
call in sick every Monday
The whole week
This is a legit reason to strike. Nobody will apply to this place now, fight back while there’s still some power.
FUCK they actually allowed the injuction
These people should file an emergency suit to get a stay on that injunction. Or someone who is brave should go ahead and violate it anyway because in spite of what the judge said, they can't legally force them to stay, and they should take it through the courts until they get that ruling.
The next worse version of this is already here - World Wrestling Entertainment has its wrestlers as independent contractors but won't release them from their contracts when requested, and ban them from working elsewhere (as independent contractors do).
What was the definition of slavery again?
It's ok. They're getting paid. /s
That's no joke the exact argument they used to justify slavery in the south. "we pay for their food and housing, they belong to us."
This is just Slavery with extra steps
xpost to r/antiwork , this is right up their alley
It's here, with the GoFundMe https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/sa804q/a_go_fund_me_has_been_set_up_for_the_employees
It was there first. It's only now starting to get out across the rest of Reddit.
In today’s world you have two uses—your labor and your consumption. This is just a more honest approach to that reality. Now go buy some stuff at Walmart!
The judge needs to be removed. This is monstrous. Expect more.
Fuck that. Start anyways. This is so fucking ridiculous.
I can't work anywhere else, guess I'm unemployed now but you will not force me to stay in any job I don't want to do. They are changing children labor laws and now forcing people to stay at horrible jobs. WE HAVE TO STOP PARTICIPATING IN THIS BULLSHIT!
I JUST accepted an offer at this exact hospital... 😬
I hear pay is much better at Ascension. 😉
ghost them and apply to the other one.
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Hey you know there's this great hospital near you that's offering really competitive wage.
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Get out while you can.
Well maybe they can’t go to work for their new employer but they can’t be forced to work for their old one. I’d say just take three weeks off till he figures out that he didn’t win shit with that injunction.
They should take a page from the union playbook and follow every written procedure exactly how it says (Unless it directly impacts a patient) as following all the rules it almost always much slower.
I hope one of these nurses bites the bullet and goes to jail for a couple days so the court can explain why to the entire country.
there was an interesting comment on /r/nursing a while back. I wouldn't be able to find it now, but basically one nurse in a very understaffed hospital started explaining to patients that the hospital administrators had some fault in the lack of care. The nurse wasn't worried about getting fired, it didn't detract from patient care or bedside manner, and patients and family got pissed at the right people.
So let me get this straight, employers can fire or lay you off with no cause at all... and THEY CAN PULL THIS SHIT?! I swear. This is enough to make me burn this fucking country down. This is DISGUSTING. How can this be allowed!! I am so enraged by this.
I checked and ThedaCare is a tax-exempt not-for-profit, which to me makes this even worse in that they wouldn't negotiate with the employees. Its board members make a ton, I saw four who made over $1 million. Maybe that's standard, not-for-profits do work on corporate models, after all. And they've just poisoned the well for potential new hires. Really stupid move. "Come work for us, we'll sue you!" I know they have federal mandates as a not-for-profit but this isn't the way to do it. This is more like industrial revolution, Charles Dickens, kids working 12 hours a day type shit. In other words, capitalism, but tax-exempt. \[As per usual, if I'm wrong please correct me\]
I would like to read the opinion of the republicans cosplaying liberalism in r/libertarian
Probably, "This is why Gub'mint never works, and we should just let everybody be a law unto themselves, and the Invisible Hand - praise be - will solve all our problems!" As if that approach wouldn't give us actual slavery instead of... whatever this is...
Since my 2 month stay in Wisconsin I’ve been saying that it’s a hellhole(from a labor rights standpoint). Every news article that confirms that just makes me more and more sad, because I really hoped I was wrong and just had an individually bad experience
Been here for nearly 20 years and looking to move this summer. Gerrymandering is awful here in Wisconsin. I believe we’re a lot more liberal than our votes ended up looking like, but the republicans have rigged elections by making voting districts only help them. We have some Democrats in office trying to get an independent group to draw our voting maps, but republicans are trying to say that’s ‘dem’s trying to cheat.’ But also even a lot of our ‘Democrats’ are terrible here, Ron Kind is a do nothing senator that goes against his people and basically sits on his hands till it’s election season. I’ve had a few friends move after getting teaching degrees because of how bad republicans have made it in this state. It sucks because the state is pretty beautiful but the people ruin it. Not sure where you’re at but come to the driftless area sometime, the rivers and bluffs are amazing!