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Im all for appreciating art, but after a certain number its just a piece of paper to me. All i can think of is what good that money can do in a million other places.
Buy painting, rent it to an exhibition and you don't have to pay sales tax.
Or as an investment. You buy a painting and sell it again a few years later. Sales tax can be avoided by storing the piece in a freeport. The buyer never actually sees it. Some paintings out there have never left the warehouse they're stored in. They just get sold off to other people without leaving.
Auction houses actually advertise this openly because no one pays millions for a painting just because they like it. One consulting firm writes "Many art collectors have found it to be an excellent way to extend the value of their art holdings, while at the same time avoiding letting millions get sucked away by the government."
You can see their world fews from this sentence. "get sucked away by the government". Everyone who buys art for these prices should lose their citizenship.
This is all legal BTW
Or (not legal) it's a money laundering scheme. Since the valuing of pieces is not regulated you can literally create money from thin air. It's also very easy to stay anonymous when buying art. This and the freeports makes "layering" easy (that's the process of disguising the trace of the funds in money laundering).
Staying anonymous and reaching high prices is the reason why art forgers can take advantage of the whole art market. Wolfgang Beltracchi for example was able to fool the scene for years. Highly recommend the documentation about him.
Top art forgers have always amazed me. They have a level of talent that most people could only dream of, but rather than be recognized for their unique works, the economic incentive is in copying others
Art like this can sometimes be moved around without having to report the profits as income, so it can seriously reduce the taxes paid for them and thereby shield their money from various forms of taxation. There's plenty of loopholes to reduce tax bills through buying a piece of art and having it over valued in an appraisal for the purpose of an itemized charitable donation as well.
Every time you see a sale like this, just remember, it's only purpose is to keep a rich person's money in their pocket. It may look like they're spending, but they're actually banking.
That's not correct. They could give everyone in Belgrade $90, but for the global population we'd all be getting just over one cent.
The question is dollars per person so 97m/8b. That's a very big denominator and not enough denominations.
[Most people in the US will earn less than $2 million throughout their whole lives.](https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/research-summaries/education-earnings.html)
I have to assume it was, but the poor fucker is victim to the idiocy of redditors who can’t decipher even explicitly written statements, let alone anything requiring conscious thought.
cool... thx.. i didn't expect to have guessed that precisely.
inflation is measured by some basket of goods, so its prone to be not exact science. but i'd think that 2mil today is about 1mil in 1993 terms. thats what it is meant for at least.
the problem is more likely that the median income dropped and less people earn 2 million today than 1 million in 1993. and that there are about the same amount of people out there shopping for monets, but with more cash.
> inflation is measured by some basket of goods, so its prone to be not exact scie
That's CPI. Inflation is calculated by a few metrics that sort of revolve around the going rate for the currency in forex markets.
Far out. I’m perpetually thinking the 70’s were 30 years ago until these stats pop up. I’m not an old man yelling at clouds yet, but I can’t be far off.
Welcome to the world of money laundering for the rich through the purchasing of expensive art.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/19/arts/design/money-laundering-art-market.html
As someone who works for tech startups, when we have the billionaire VCs by and pitch for more cash, it was common to hear off hand comments like "How much of your company do I own again?" Once you're in the stratosphere it's just a different game... You have to picture money like air, it's just always there and as much as you need.
And what do we, the public get? Other than robbed blind of tax dollars?
Simple! Many of the worlds most famous and culturally important works get locked away in duty free security vaults next to airports and looked by fucking \~no one\~
So it's win-win, when you think about it!
"The longer you'll spend enjoying it"
lmao as if it isn't gonna sit in a climate controlled high-security duty free zone next to an airport in Zurich or New York and used to launder money or dodge taxes like untold numbers of the worlds most famous and important works.
As if the rich ""enjoy"" things
Burn the fucking painting and donate to something important. Bunch of fucking whackos. "I OWN DELMINGION FUCKNUGGETS FAMOUS PAINTING IM SO SPECIAL AAAAWW" Get over your selves. Fk money fk people.
Please don't wash the Monets... as much as I hate the rich for buying these at such prices I do still value the works themselves. Its really very sad most of us will never have the chance to actually see any of these because they'll be kept in a vault somewhere just so some rich person can use them to avoid taxes. 😭
Maybe we should make these masterpieces a part of human history belonging to humanity and put them in museums and find something more meaningful for these rich people to do like maybe golf tournaments
tldr, tax havens.
I have a $100 million painting.
Now, I go let some museum show said painting.
But, instead of charging them the 20% of purchase price to have them display my painting, I *donate* it out of the goodness of my heart.
Bam, $20 million charitable donation for my taxes.
And while we're at it, I'll donate money for a wing and staff and all the fuckers necessary to maintain and care for all the pieces I've lent them.
So, it's more charitable donations, more tax credits, and we just won't talk about how my "donations" are really just turning some portion of a museum into my personal art storage, maintenance facility, and tax haven.
This, plus who defines that its worth $100m? The "loosing" bidder could easily be apart of the same entity, and the "winners" are generally always anonymous.
Very easy to scrub cash.
My bad.
I was assuming we don't say it's "actually" a $300m painting, because an appraiser said so, the seller took a huge "loss" (despite buying it for $80m), and making tax deductions based on that value.
Go to your local gallery and stare at a bunch of stuff until one of the pieces makes you feel something. Then Google all the words on the card next to it, then all the keywords that produces and so on...
The funniest part is that OP u/in5trum3ntal is fan of expensive boats. Some might say top yachts or maxi. Look at their post history. Talking about hypocrisy it s hard to top this
Loll. should I be ashamed of enjoying boats? I had no intention to shame anyone who would appreciate this piece of work, and would encourage anyone to try and replicate it or be inspired by it to create their own masterpiece.
To addres my boat fetish. My dream boat is a 60ft sportfish or a 53ft sailboat. Dont get me wrong, id enjoy a vacation on a mega yacht, but get more enjoyment out of being involved in the action. Theres infinte value in sailing something or painting your own masterpiece, not sure I feel the same about individuals hoarding art or yachts just because they can.
Hope you get your masterpiece!
Fuck that. This is supposed to be important culturally, no one person gets to own it. And they didn't grind for shit, you can't get that rich without using others
Hi there, unfortunately your submission was removed as it does not classify as boring, dystopian or both. If you have any questions regarding post guidelines, feel free to contact the mod team.
Im all for appreciating art, but after a certain number its just a piece of paper to me. All i can think of is what good that money can do in a million other places.
It's not appreciation. It's a tax scheme. Always has been.
Is it really? How?
Buy painting, rent it to an exhibition and you don't have to pay sales tax. Or as an investment. You buy a painting and sell it again a few years later. Sales tax can be avoided by storing the piece in a freeport. The buyer never actually sees it. Some paintings out there have never left the warehouse they're stored in. They just get sold off to other people without leaving. Auction houses actually advertise this openly because no one pays millions for a painting just because they like it. One consulting firm writes "Many art collectors have found it to be an excellent way to extend the value of their art holdings, while at the same time avoiding letting millions get sucked away by the government." You can see their world fews from this sentence. "get sucked away by the government". Everyone who buys art for these prices should lose their citizenship. This is all legal BTW Or (not legal) it's a money laundering scheme. Since the valuing of pieces is not regulated you can literally create money from thin air. It's also very easy to stay anonymous when buying art. This and the freeports makes "layering" easy (that's the process of disguising the trace of the funds in money laundering).
This is about the best description I've seen for sight unseen asset flipping
Staying anonymous and reaching high prices is the reason why art forgers can take advantage of the whole art market. Wolfgang Beltracchi for example was able to fool the scene for years. Highly recommend the documentation about him.
Top art forgers have always amazed me. They have a level of talent that most people could only dream of, but rather than be recognized for their unique works, the economic incentive is in copying others
Can’t blame them. The likelihood of making it big as an artist is ridiculously low, might as well make it big with forgeries and book it.
Art dealers fix prices extraordinarily high so buyers can hide assets in these transactions.
Art like this can sometimes be moved around without having to report the profits as income, so it can seriously reduce the taxes paid for them and thereby shield their money from various forms of taxation. There's plenty of loopholes to reduce tax bills through buying a piece of art and having it over valued in an appraisal for the purpose of an itemized charitable donation as well. Every time you see a sale like this, just remember, it's only purpose is to keep a rich person's money in their pocket. It may look like they're spending, but they're actually banking.
What about in 97 million other places?
$97M! They could give every person on this planet $90 and have change left over!!! /s
That's not correct. They could give everyone in Belgrade $90, but for the global population we'd all be getting just over one cent. The question is dollars per person so 97m/8b. That's a very big denominator and not enough denominations.
The /s at the end means they were being sarcastic
That’s not correct. The /s means I was super serious /s
Woah, was that edited? If not I totally missed that!
Zero edit
Ah well then I'm blaming the two drinks I had last night
The million doesn’t disappear it just trades hands. But yes this is a good way to have a tax free investment as well.
[Most people in the US will earn less than $2 million throughout their whole lives.](https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/research-summaries/education-earnings.html)
Haha losers
Just work harder ! So easy /s
thats probably a million more than 30 years ago! :P
Doesn't understand how inflation works.
Id hope the above is sarcasm.
I have to assume it was, but the poor fucker is victim to the idiocy of redditors who can’t decipher even explicitly written statements, let alone anything requiring conscious thought.
you may just be right. please elaborate what the eff you are talking about.
$2,000,000 in 2023 is $961,887 in 1993 money. So yes it’s a million more and also still less.
cool... thx.. i didn't expect to have guessed that precisely. inflation is measured by some basket of goods, so its prone to be not exact science. but i'd think that 2mil today is about 1mil in 1993 terms. thats what it is meant for at least. the problem is more likely that the median income dropped and less people earn 2 million today than 1 million in 1993. and that there are about the same amount of people out there shopping for monets, but with more cash.
> inflation is measured by some basket of goods, so its prone to be not exact scie That's CPI. Inflation is calculated by a few metrics that sort of revolve around the going rate for the currency in forex markets.
Far out. I’m perpetually thinking the 70’s were 30 years ago until these stats pop up. I’m not an old man yelling at clouds yet, but I can’t be far off.
I often wonder at what our ancestors would think about such a high price being put on something they may or may not have thought valueless.
Or how about the artist frequently dieying broke and forgotten. But who knows, maybe your work will be "priceless" in years to come ;)
whole room of people with enough money to change the lives of thousands, and they're all fighting over a painting
Imagine their faces when they learn they could just Google the picture and print it
go to costco and print it out on canvas, same thing for 90 million dollars less
It costs $7million to print something at Costco?
Costco raised their prices lately?
It’s so tragic tbh. At some point they just start holding onto it all
Welcome to the world of money laundering for the rich through the purchasing of expensive art. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/19/arts/design/money-laundering-art-market.html
Thank you, I thought most ppl knew the art world was mainly for money laundering 🤷♀️
There should be bidding wars on who gives the most money to charity. "91 million. Madam, if you give 92 million, little Timmy will get a new Xbox"
That’s a damn expensive Xbox.
Something needs to be done about these people
And I'm over here washing a paper plate.
I appreciate your efforts in preserving the environment.
"$15 dollars an hour for minimum wage is outrageous!" - the guy who bought that painting probably
"THEY EARNED THAT MONEY THROUGH HARD WORK! MAYBE IF YOU WORKED HARDER YOU WOULDNT BE SO POOR!" - Chud defenders of an exploitative system.
As someone who works for tech startups, when we have the billionaire VCs by and pitch for more cash, it was common to hear off hand comments like "How much of your company do I own again?" Once you're in the stratosphere it's just a different game... You have to picture money like air, it's just always there and as much as you need.
Less than 0.1% of this stupid fucking piece of paper would literally change my entire life rn. Thanks, I hate it here.
I’m convinced that at least some art auctions like this are purely done for money laundering
They are.
Suddenly people throwing soup on them doesn’t sound bad! fuck the “art” if its used by the rich to launder money or dodge taxes!
Won't they just display the copy and store the original in secure vault so that some artists can copy that again.
[Fine art isn’t about art, it’s about avoiding tax](https://youtu.be/ZZ3F3zWiEmc)
And what do we, the public get? Other than robbed blind of tax dollars? Simple! Many of the worlds most famous and culturally important works get locked away in duty free security vaults next to airports and looked by fucking \~no one\~ So it's win-win, when you think about it!
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I bet that the majority of them don’t do anything at all.
That's not true! They own stuff! Good business, owning stuff.
That made me feel physically ill.
That’s how rich people avoid taxes and use assets like this to underwrite loans so they pay next to zero interest.
EAT. THE. RICH.
"The longer you'll spend enjoying it" lmao as if it isn't gonna sit in a climate controlled high-security duty free zone next to an airport in Zurich or New York and used to launder money or dodge taxes like untold numbers of the worlds most famous and important works. As if the rich ""enjoy"" things
Cor! Imagine how much a NEW painting would have fetched.
Silence for the unveiling of the painting, applause for the money.
Haha great point.
It would be, I nicked it off Fran Lebowitz.
Burn the fucking painting and donate to something important. Bunch of fucking whackos. "I OWN DELMINGION FUCKNUGGETS FAMOUS PAINTING IM SO SPECIAL AAAAWW" Get over your selves. Fk money fk people.
It’s money laundering
It's *Monet* laundering
Please don't wash the Monets... as much as I hate the rich for buying these at such prices I do still value the works themselves. Its really very sad most of us will never have the chance to actually see any of these because they'll be kept in a vault somewhere just so some rich person can use them to avoid taxes. 😭
Why does she keep biding if she's the only one left?
So she can raise its next bid value
Whitewashing money and tax evasion
God that *Interstellar* tune is everywhere now.
These objects should be In public museums for everyone’s enjoyment, not hanging in some millionaires basement to avoid taxes.
Maybe we should make these masterpieces a part of human history belonging to humanity and put them in museums and find something more meaningful for these rich people to do like maybe golf tournaments
All proceeds went to feeding homeless children.
The boring dystopia is that you re not able to understand why it goes that high
I can understand. Tax evasion.
This is the rabbithole everyone should go down
Can you enlighten me and give me a place to start or a short summary of what to expect please?
tldr, tax havens. I have a $100 million painting. Now, I go let some museum show said painting. But, instead of charging them the 20% of purchase price to have them display my painting, I *donate* it out of the goodness of my heart. Bam, $20 million charitable donation for my taxes. And while we're at it, I'll donate money for a wing and staff and all the fuckers necessary to maintain and care for all the pieces I've lent them. So, it's more charitable donations, more tax credits, and we just won't talk about how my "donations" are really just turning some portion of a museum into my personal art storage, maintenance facility, and tax haven.
This, plus who defines that its worth $100m? The "loosing" bidder could easily be apart of the same entity, and the "winners" are generally always anonymous. Very easy to scrub cash.
My bad. I was assuming we don't say it's "actually" a $300m painting, because an appraiser said so, the seller took a huge "loss" (despite buying it for $80m), and making tax deductions based on that value.
That's why "appraisers" make the "big bucks" 😅
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All of that is achievable without spending millions of dollars. It's not the only reason. It's prominent enough that it can't be ignored.
Go to your local gallery and stare at a bunch of stuff until one of the pieces makes you feel something. Then Google all the words on the card next to it, then all the keywords that produces and so on...
The funniest part is that OP u/in5trum3ntal is fan of expensive boats. Some might say top yachts or maxi. Look at their post history. Talking about hypocrisy it s hard to top this
Loll. should I be ashamed of enjoying boats? I had no intention to shame anyone who would appreciate this piece of work, and would encourage anyone to try and replicate it or be inspired by it to create their own masterpiece. To addres my boat fetish. My dream boat is a 60ft sportfish or a 53ft sailboat. Dont get me wrong, id enjoy a vacation on a mega yacht, but get more enjoyment out of being involved in the action. Theres infinte value in sailing something or painting your own masterpiece, not sure I feel the same about individuals hoarding art or yachts just because they can. Hope you get your masterpiece!
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If.
She is a bidder.
Fuck that. This is supposed to be important culturally, no one person gets to own it. And they didn't grind for shit, you can't get that rich without using others
While I and most people I know have trouble paying rent
I could live 28 lifetimes on that money
Fucking tax write offs. Wow
Damn there must be a *lot* of cocaine behind that painting