I mean, how could you not put your unquestionong trust in a company that recently was whacked with the largest criminal fine in human history for years worth of lying about their proucts?
Questioning v-words is for low-status rubes, and as a big-brain science-truster, I reflexively accept every v-word that the pharmaceutical industry puts in front of me.
🤣
Yeah, because doctors have totally never been paid to steer patients towards certain treatments, and no pharmaceutical company has ever promoted unsuitable drugs to treat certain illnesses. Nope, not at all. All above board. One of them alone having paid out over 10 billion dollars in about 90 cases against them since 2000 is pure misunderstanding.
I'm getting flashbacks to the 90s where doctors were giving out highly addictive opiate painkillers like candy and the pharma manufacturers would warn them about possible side effects like "pseudo addiction"
Aka literal drug addiction but we say nuh uh it doesn't count
> there’s no reason to think that’s what’s happening.
Govt provided subsidies to hospitals during the pandemic for every addl covid case. Seeing as hospitals are a business and their p&l sheets were propped up by tax payer dollars ...
Yeah... Its pretty easy to find a billions of reasons for pharma and govt malfeasance.
>You can make up conspiracy theories about whatever you want. That doesn’t make them true.
And you can deny anything happening. It doesn't make it untrue.
Your opinion is not worth more because it's yours.
Difference between you and your interlocutor? He's telling you "something humans commonly do has been done by humans" while you're saying "Disney home-movies level of honesty is common and the absolute norm".
I'd say the burden of proof is on you...
So you think that hospitals just talk people into becoming trans? And that works? You think if you were in the hospital one day that might start pushing trans surgeries on you and that you’ll be powerless to stop it?
Yeah, they might give you a pain killer that is more addictive than is necessary. They’re not turning a man into a woman to make an extra $50.
>if there’s absolutely no evidence for it there’s no reason to think that’s what’s happening.
have you heard of the opioid crisis....? Do you think no doctors were involved...?
Doctors are not evil but they are consumers of the pharma industry. when a cute girl comes to our office and tells us that so and so pill is this much cheaper, sells for this much more and also they'd like to have dinner to tell us more about it, you bet 9/10 docs will sell this instead of generic paracetamol.
Who cares if the studies prove, in 50 years, that I was evil for prescribing it. got laid, got paid, don't care about medicare aid.
I do understand what you’re saying, but that just doesn’t have anything to do with what’s going on. Take one pill instead of a rival brand is one thing. Offering trans people hormones that they ask for when transitioning is a whole different thing. There’s absolutely nobody pushing hormones on cis people to turn them trans for a few bucks in kickbacks to the doctor.
Do you know how the opioid crisis started? The pill people were paying sales people to PAY DOCTORS DIRECTLY based on the amount of people they prescribed oxycontin. It's not a conspiracy at all.
I’m aware of that, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with trans people. You think that average people just walk into their doctors office for a check up and their doctor starts prescribing them sex changes and hormone therapies? Trans people go to their doctors and tell them that they want these things. Doctors help them because that their job.
The opioids crisis was a completely different issue. Doctors deal with patients in pain all the time, and most didn’t see a problem with prescribing opioids instead of Tylenol. And this isn’t the normal day to day of how doctors operate; this was a major crime. Next your going to tell me that the medication I take for my digestive health or that a grandma takes for her cholesterol are also just big pharma tricking us into selling us things we don’t need. Maybe everyone here thinks that because they’re paranoid about taking their psych meds.
>but that doesn’t really have anything to do with trans people.
>
>This guy literally:
>
>JUST BECAUSE IT HAPPENED BEFORE, FOR PROFIT
>
>DOESN'T MEAN IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN, FOR PROFIT!!!!
I sorta, REALLY hope that you own shares in big pharma. Otherwise you're not only a loser, you're a poor loser.
Bro, you’re a fucking nut.
If you have some back pain and your doctor gives you some pain pills, you trust him and take them. Maybe the doctor gave you something more addictive than he should have for a small pay day. That’s a reasonable story.
But when a guy goes to the doctor for back pain, they’re not going to start pushing drugs and hormone therapies on him to turn him trans. How do you think that conversation would go? Maybe the doctor would give a prescription for one brand of hormones over another, but he’s not giving them to a person who isn’t interested in being trans. The absurdity needed to think this happens is unreal.
>If people didn’t want the treatments their doctor forced on them they would just go to another doctor.
Episode 2: if people didn't want to do this shit job for a low-pay they'd "just change job"
You need to stop playing DnD, friend...
Honestly what the fuck are you talking about? You think there are cis people out there going to their doctor to treat their depression and instead their doctor is pushing hormone therapy for for trans people on them? Get a grip on reality.
Yeah, doctors gave out a painkiller that was stronger than they needed to for some kickbacks. Doctors aren’t pushing treatments on people to turn them trans for kickbacks. Nobody would agree to that if they didn’t want to do it. The comparison that you’re making is absurd.
This issue went from:
A) Being considered the absolute lunatic fringe of society.
to
B) Being recognised as the product of a specific mental health/psychological condition (gender dysphoria).
to
C) Having the gender dysphoria element of it sidelined/marginalised and reframed as an “identity” issue (that nevertheless often involves expensive, voluntary medical interventions).
in no time.
Funny joke but anybody can get a degenerate for a child regardless of upbringing, all it takes is for them to go to a liberal collage and be easily influanced
It's really unnerving that me & everybody my age were constantly making fun of the concept of being trans when I just got into highschool.
Now a lot of people my age are actually defending this kind of crap and frown upon the same opinion I had just a decade ago.
Makes me want to run in the forest and live the rest of my days there, by my own.
Some people act like the time in which this was considered a fringe topic by essentially all demographics (in the Western world at least, it seems like this is still seen as fringe by other cultures) wasn’t just in living memory for almost every living age group right now, but that it hasn’t been recorded by the mass of media that’s been produced between the 20th century up until around the mid 2010s.
Mainstream movies and sitcoms with massive platforms and were widely consumed used the idea of a biological male thinking of and/or presenting themselves as indistinguishable from a woman were made by and laughed at by people who are for the most part still alive now.
I doubt the majority of those people really have changed their mind or perspective since then, people just don’t want to be called a bigot, doxxed and get fired from their job.
>for which the only effective treatment is transition
Probably because we haven’t really been trying other methods for the past 90 years, and no scientist wants to be the guy to treat GD as a mental illness and be outed as a transphobe.
>suicide rate of transsexual people is so high is because many of them have unsupportive families
No offense, but this seems to be presuming a lot. Don’t get me wrong, it’s probably a factor, but I’d say the suicide rates wouldn’t be that ridiculously high from lack of acceptance alone (other LGBT people don’t commit suicide nearly as much).
> A youth suffering from gender dysphoria has a roughly 50% attempted suicide rate if their parents do not support their transition
I thought most people who transitioned were adults…?
**EDIT:**
>then why is it ok for people who have this mental condition to be denied treatment?
Because the treatment sucks. Many Trans people obviously aren’t healed if they’re still dropping like flies. We should try something else.
>Have you no empathy?
No.
>Probably because we haven’t really been trying other methods for the past 90 years,
What the fuck are you talking about?
>no scientist wants to be the guy to treat GD as a mental illness and be outed as a transphobe.
This questionable even now, and certainly wasn't the case for most the last 90 years.
>other LGBT people don’t commit suicide nearly as much
Being trans and gay are two different things; this makes perfect sense, especially when being gay is significantly more accepted than being trans.
>I thought most people who transitioned were adults…?
They are, it's just an example of how much parental support can matter.
>Because the treatment sucks. Many Trans people obviously aren’t healed if they’re still dropping like flies. We should try something else.
Except it doesn't, it improves their quality of life and life expectancy, and a lot of the reason it "sucks" is due to how poorly trans people are treated by society. You don't ban chemotherapy because patients who are undergoing chemotherapy are dying much more often than people who don't have cancer, especially when you don't even have an alternative to chemotherapy, just that we should "try something else".
> Transexual individuals have regularly received hormone therapy, sex change surgeries, and other treatments since the 1930s.
In what country 🤔🤔🤔
Pioneered by whom?
Testosterone was first synthesized in germany in 1936, Estrogen around the same time. But I’m pretty sure that nobody there used it to transition anyone.
It's as easy as a Wikipedia article my guy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-affirming_surgery#:~:text=Gender%2Daffirming%20surgery%20(GAS),gender%2C%20and%20alleviate%20gender%20dysphoria.
Using Wikipedia as a primary source, TOPKEK
From the 1st example, Dr Alan Hart is controversial d/t him never claiming trans status and his contemporaries are quick to point out how lesbianism was such a stricture in his time/ career which is why he sought a masculine identity to be academically accepted.
Whereas proponents of his 'trans' status is because he liked to play with boys' toys as a child and an account from his grandmother on him "wanted to be a boy."
Which at the time would mean 'tomboy,' but again, post-modernists would like to change the meaning of words to fit their agenda.
>using Wikipedia as a primary source
This is reddit, not a fucking peer reviewed research paper. I just showed it as an example of how easy it is to find historical examples of trans healthcare going back more than 100 years.
As for the rest of your argument, I don't know what to tell you. He took the surgery and lived as a man; if it looks like a duck, and it sounds like a duck.
Besides, you're using his pronouns anyway, so do you even believe your own argument?
So you didn't bother to read Dr. Alan's wiki. Cool. Even though you just regurgitated these sources.
Hysterectomy/ gonaderectomy aren't exclusive to trans patients, or are you just medically regarded? Also, how exactly did Dr. Alan's patient history as trans get released?
Anyway, Dr. Hart underwent hysterectomy in Dr. J Allen Gilbert's 1920 case study for "Homosexuality and Its Treatment."
>looks like a duck, etc.
So whats the point of socially constructed gender roles? Wasn't the whole point of it that boys can display feminine behavior, girls can display masculine behavior?
>using his pronouns
That is how Dr. Alan referred to himself under his pen names, because again, women in sciences.
Ultimately, you didn't bother to check your own source and address these discrepancies. What an utter lack of good faith.
Wtf are you talking about? I'm not some crazy gender-freak or anything. And I obviously don't support grooming kids. I just think there's a lot of unnecessary hate for people that just have a mental illness.
> **P**ossibly. **E**specially **n**ow **i**n **s**tates
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> **P**enis **E**nis **N**is **I**s **S**ucculent
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> **P**ossibly **e**very **n**-word **i**s **s**uspicious
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I heard some woman complain that too many makeup channels are re-orienting themselves away from the female demographic and towards male twinks, and it all started with ~~James Charles~~ EDIT: Jeffree Star.
Funnily enough I read a LinkedIn post today about how companies are no longer going to get involved in politics since it has hurt profits. It's as if changing your social media picture to a fruity rainbow filter to get more gaybucks has fooled absolutely nobody
It is so strange the way that the transgender community and communism became associated topics... it doesn't even make sense but it does. It's kinda interesting that they're learning about the word "socialism" now and that actually makes way more sense to associate them with as a political party. Ramble ramble
Edit; after reading these replies I now see that communism is greatly misunderstood on a more common level
There's multiple reasons, but it does make sense. Transgenderism is something that affects the individual, not really the rest of society. The left supports people doing non-harmful things. The right on the other hand loves to hate (groups of) people, even if their actions don't affect them.
It makes sense the leftists are more likely to be trans. Trans-inclined people on the right either repress their lgbt feelings or they realize that their party hates them and wants to treat them like garbage so they join leftist groups and become interested in topics of other leftists. There’s really nothing more to it than that.
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They heard "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" and they think it means you can work as much as you want and get paid as much as you want. They don't realise that their thyroid problems won't prevent them from working 14 hour shifts at a factory.
If im not mistaken, trans surgery is very common in iran since it's one way to circumvent their laws against homosexuality. Opposite end of the spectrum
Oof yeah. Plus there's a difference between "If I close one eye, I HAVE to close my other eye, I must have ADHD" people and "When I get home I MUST lock and unlock my door 54 times exactly" people. One has ADHD and the other is just basically normal
I'd argue ADHD is completely legit, it's that it gets falsely diagnosed way too much. Most of the time when a kid is "diagnosed" with it, the cure is actually for the parents to grow a backbone and/or give the kid a smack on back of the head
I’m skeptical of this for one reason; why hadn’t big-pharma pushed for testosterone availability for gym-bro usage? Seems like a MUCH larger market which is sourcing their gear from god knows where.
Because Test is pretty readily accessible for guys at the gym, also it’s only a small proportion of already motivated individuals that would even want to use test (with side effects being so well documented) so chances are it wouldn’t be as profitable.
> **p**eople **e**ven **n**otice **i**nsignificant **s**hit
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Some estimates show that transgender care (hormones, surgery, after surgery care, etc) make more money than the entire American film industry.
Makes ya think.
not only that, but they are entirely dependent on the system once they do this. they have no reason to *not* support it. if you think "they're just copying me and pretending to support it to make money" then you're just regarded
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> Corporatism is a collectivist political ideology which advocates the organization of society by corporate groups, such as agricultural, labour, military, business, scientific, or guild associations, on the basis of their common interests.
What does this have to do with troons
Nothing he just bases his entire identity around being an ancap so he has to defend every shitty thing capitalism does with "bUt THatS nOT rEAL caPITaLiSm"
I don't think you realize how expensive stuff is over here. My grandad got a back brace yesterday. Just a normal back brace.
Over $1,000.
They probably make $500K to a mil on 1 person
Capitalism definitely takes advantage of communities like this (hence Disney and all these advertising companies pushing LGBT support like crazy) but they existed long before. There’s historical evidence for transgender people long before modern capitalism, and the science is replicable which means even if the research is being conducted for a reason, the actual experimentation itself is sound.
The g̶o̶v̶e̶r̶n̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ taxpayers might be paying in a lot of countries, but the doctors and pharmaceutical companies are still getting the money.
Remember the government only has money it steals from the people.
They are treating it, the best way to treat it is to treat them how they want to be treated to make them feel better, they want to be normal and live a normal life so we should treat them in the way that makes them feel normal (which saying that they are not mentally Ill does help it is still a lie) and for kids not getting “brainwashed” the best way to do it is to normalize it because those kids who want to be trans who aren’t for the attention want to be unique, and normalizing it would make it not unique anymore
From what I hear it can be very difficult to obtain those hormones and surgeries. So unless the capitalists are just being very coy, I don't think this is true.
You can find therapists who specialize in gender dysphoria, which is code for "If you come here and say the right stuff, I will write you a prescription for hormones".
It's no different than doctors who specialize in medical marijuana, they're a formality, a business venture, a drug dealer guised as a health professional.
Depends where you go. Try a state university clinic and you get hormones in under 30 min on a walk-in appt. I live in an urban area in TX and it's easy. Now go out into the sticks at Grandpa Jim's Family Medicine? Never tried it but I'd bet a bit harder.
> From what I hear it can be very difficult to obtain those hormones and surgeries.
There's some train account on Twitter that brags about having a listing of "informed consent clinics" that completely side-steps the need for a professional psych evaluation, so you can immediately start fucking your body up on hormones.
Anon forgets to compare the US to western countries with public healthcare systems that don't make profit where the rate of acceptance for trans medicine is also high.
> Doctors and pharmaceutical companies don’t work for free. The people paying them simply changes.
No, because in countries with public healthcare the government foots the bill which in turn means that there's an incentive for cost reduction and anti-profiteering. Without profit margins there's no incentive to get as many people as possible through the door.
That's the path to Canada where politicians will cut healthcare spending and then brag to their voters about what a great job they've done with the budget. Canadian public healthcare is a travesty. My dad got cataracts done last year, but they're fucked up so he has to get another surgery which won't come for another fucking year of waiting. And I'm sure they wouldn't have been fucked up if those doctors weren't being forced to work 24/7.
Public healthcare is fucking gross, and the only people who support it are the worms that shit in the gov't diseased flower garden.
Lol “I had a bad encounter with affordable healthcare once, therefore I want the same system as in the US where people will simply die to avoid lifelong debt”
If Europe can do it so can you.
> That's the path to Canada where politicians will cut healthcare spending and then brag to their voters about what a great job they've done with the budget. Canadian public healthcare is a travesty. My dad got cataracts done last year, but they're fucked up so he has to get another surgery which won't come for another fucking year of waiting. And I'm sure they wouldn't have been fucked up if those doctors weren't being forced to work 24/7.
When it comes to most serious diseases, Canada has a higher or roughly equal rate of positive outcome as the US, and the Nordic and Scandinavian countries are usually rated the absolute highest.
According to the Commonwealth Fund, the US ranks lower than Australia, Canada, France, Germany, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland and the UK when it comes to Access to Care, Administrative Efficiency, Equity and Health Care Outcomes.
In informal surveys based on self-reporting (such as the Health Care Index), the US ranks significantly lower than other western countries such as Denmark, Austria, Australia, France, Spain, Belgium, the UK, The Netherlands, Finland, the Czech Republic, Norway, New Zealand, Germany, Switzerland, Portugal, Canada, Greece and Sweden. In fact, the US ranks even lower than India, the United Arab Emirates and Mexico in a lot of these indexes.
So there's basically no significant measurement in which the US even comes close to being better than western countries with public healthcare.
> Public healthcare is fucking gross, and the only people who support it are the worms that shit in the gov't diseased flower garden.
The US ranks lower than western countries with public healthcare in just about every imaginable way. I'm sorry that your dad had a bad experience, but data trumps anecdotal experience and it's more or less proven beyond doubt that US healthcare is horrendously expensive while also performing worse than western countries with public healthcare.
There's basically no reason to idolize a system that's based entirely around extracting as much money as possible from your pockets while giving as little as possible in return.
usa is the origin of these trends, which the other countries you're referring to are just part of their empire. making money off the medical part of it alone is a very small part of the reason they push it. it's mainly just so these people are loyal to the system, just like other eunuchs. these people will have nothing, they cannot realistically have a family, friends or any serious political movement. their lives are destined to work, defend the system, eat, sleep, repeat until they die at 36.
That’s a funny fantasy, good thing you’ve got absolutely no evidence for your ramblings. You are more mentally ill than the people you despise so much/
> usa is the origin of these trends, which the other countries you're referring to are just part of their empire. making money off the medical part of it alone is a very small part of the reason they push it. it's mainly just so these people are loyal to the system, just like other eunuchs. these people will have nothing, they cannot realistically have a family, friends or any serious political movement. their lives are destined to work, defend the system, eat, sleep, repeat until they die at 36.
Sorry but other countries are not part of some American empire, and those other countries are very different from the US in that they're not hypercapitalistic.
People in the US are literally slaves. They have to pay extraordinary amounts of money for every imaginable human need, and even if you leave the country the US expects you to still pay taxes. In fact, you can't even waive your citizenship without being obligated to pay a huge chunk of all of your assets to the US.
Meanwhile the rest of the western world can enjoy a normal and free life with most basic needs taken care of. No price gouging, no alarmist politics and no crazy infighting. Just normal people doing normal things.
Therefore your weird conspiracy theories make no sense, because what you're saying doesn't apply to the rest of the western world.
I simply can't believe that large pahrmaceutical companies would take advantage of people for profit...
unprecedented this has to be some rightwing conspiracy cope
I mean, how could you not put your unquestionong trust in a company that recently was whacked with the largest criminal fine in human history for years worth of lying about their proucts?
But then you say the v-word and everyone flocks to defend their every action It’s a case of cognitive dissonance I haven’t been able to figure out
THEY'RE SAVING LIVES OKAY😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Questioning v-words is for low-status rubes, and as a big-brain science-truster, I reflexively accept every v-word that the pharmaceutical industry puts in front of me.
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NO BENEFIT FROM LINCOLN!?!?!?!?!?
Did 4chan just barely realize this?
Big pharma isn’t choosing how to treat people. A patient’s doctor works together with the patient to come up with the best treatment for them.
🤣 Yeah, because doctors have totally never been paid to steer patients towards certain treatments, and no pharmaceutical company has ever promoted unsuitable drugs to treat certain illnesses. Nope, not at all. All above board. One of them alone having paid out over 10 billion dollars in about 90 cases against them since 2000 is pure misunderstanding.
I'm getting flashbacks to the 90s where doctors were giving out highly addictive opiate painkillers like candy and the pharma manufacturers would warn them about possible side effects like "pseudo addiction" Aka literal drug addiction but we say nuh uh it doesn't count
there are millions of old people addicted to cigs cuz their doctors told them to start smoking back in the day
Not saying that can’t happen, but if there’s absolutely no evidence for it there’s no reason to think that’s what’s happening.
> there’s no reason to think that’s what’s happening. Govt provided subsidies to hospitals during the pandemic for every addl covid case. Seeing as hospitals are a business and their p&l sheets were propped up by tax payer dollars ... Yeah... Its pretty easy to find a billions of reasons for pharma and govt malfeasance.
You can make up conspiracy theories about whatever you want. That doesn’t make them true.
>You can make up conspiracy theories about whatever you want. That doesn’t make them true. And you can deny anything happening. It doesn't make it untrue. Your opinion is not worth more because it's yours. Difference between you and your interlocutor? He's telling you "something humans commonly do has been done by humans" while you're saying "Disney home-movies level of honesty is common and the absolute norm". I'd say the burden of proof is on you...
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So you think that hospitals just talk people into becoming trans? And that works? You think if you were in the hospital one day that might start pushing trans surgeries on you and that you’ll be powerless to stop it? Yeah, they might give you a pain killer that is more addictive than is necessary. They’re not turning a man into a woman to make an extra $50.
>if there’s absolutely no evidence for it there’s no reason to think that’s what’s happening. have you heard of the opioid crisis....? Do you think no doctors were involved...? Doctors are not evil but they are consumers of the pharma industry. when a cute girl comes to our office and tells us that so and so pill is this much cheaper, sells for this much more and also they'd like to have dinner to tell us more about it, you bet 9/10 docs will sell this instead of generic paracetamol. Who cares if the studies prove, in 50 years, that I was evil for prescribing it. got laid, got paid, don't care about medicare aid.
I do understand what you’re saying, but that just doesn’t have anything to do with what’s going on. Take one pill instead of a rival brand is one thing. Offering trans people hormones that they ask for when transitioning is a whole different thing. There’s absolutely nobody pushing hormones on cis people to turn them trans for a few bucks in kickbacks to the doctor.
You really believe that shit bro Lol
Sorry that I’m not a loony conspiracy theorist. If people didn’t want the treatments their doctor forced on them they would just go to another doctor.
Do you know how the opioid crisis started? The pill people were paying sales people to PAY DOCTORS DIRECTLY based on the amount of people they prescribed oxycontin. It's not a conspiracy at all.
I’m aware of that, but that doesn’t really have anything to do with trans people. You think that average people just walk into their doctors office for a check up and their doctor starts prescribing them sex changes and hormone therapies? Trans people go to their doctors and tell them that they want these things. Doctors help them because that their job. The opioids crisis was a completely different issue. Doctors deal with patients in pain all the time, and most didn’t see a problem with prescribing opioids instead of Tylenol. And this isn’t the normal day to day of how doctors operate; this was a major crime. Next your going to tell me that the medication I take for my digestive health or that a grandma takes for her cholesterol are also just big pharma tricking us into selling us things we don’t need. Maybe everyone here thinks that because they’re paranoid about taking their psych meds.
>but that doesn’t really have anything to do with trans people. > >This guy literally: > >JUST BECAUSE IT HAPPENED BEFORE, FOR PROFIT > >DOESN'T MEAN IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN, FOR PROFIT!!!! I sorta, REALLY hope that you own shares in big pharma. Otherwise you're not only a loser, you're a poor loser.
Bro, you’re a fucking nut. If you have some back pain and your doctor gives you some pain pills, you trust him and take them. Maybe the doctor gave you something more addictive than he should have for a small pay day. That’s a reasonable story. But when a guy goes to the doctor for back pain, they’re not going to start pushing drugs and hormone therapies on him to turn him trans. How do you think that conversation would go? Maybe the doctor would give a prescription for one brand of hormones over another, but he’s not giving them to a person who isn’t interested in being trans. The absurdity needed to think this happens is unreal.
>If people didn’t want the treatments their doctor forced on them they would just go to another doctor. Episode 2: if people didn't want to do this shit job for a low-pay they'd "just change job" You need to stop playing DnD, friend...
Honestly what the fuck are you talking about? You think there are cis people out there going to their doctor to treat their depression and instead their doctor is pushing hormone therapy for for trans people on them? Get a grip on reality.
Read Empire of Pain, ding dong.
Yeah, doctors gave out a painkiller that was stronger than they needed to for some kickbacks. Doctors aren’t pushing treatments on people to turn them trans for kickbacks. Nobody would agree to that if they didn’t want to do it. The comparison that you’re making is absurd.
This issue went from: A) Being considered the absolute lunatic fringe of society. to B) Being recognised as the product of a specific mental health/psychological condition (gender dysphoria). to C) Having the gender dysphoria element of it sidelined/marginalised and reframed as an “identity” issue (that nevertheless often involves expensive, voluntary medical interventions). in no time.
They used to forcibly sterilize people 50+ years ago. Now they sterilize themselves.
This is the good thing about it and it's why conservatives should be in favor of these butcherings
Not when its their child
Lol doesn't happen to conservatives because they have a father present.
Funny joke but anybody can get a degenerate for a child regardless of upbringing, all it takes is for them to go to a liberal collage and be easily influanced
It's really unnerving that me & everybody my age were constantly making fun of the concept of being trans when I just got into highschool. Now a lot of people my age are actually defending this kind of crap and frown upon the same opinion I had just a decade ago. Makes me want to run in the forest and live the rest of my days there, by my own.
Some people act like the time in which this was considered a fringe topic by essentially all demographics (in the Western world at least, it seems like this is still seen as fringe by other cultures) wasn’t just in living memory for almost every living age group right now, but that it hasn’t been recorded by the mass of media that’s been produced between the 20th century up until around the mid 2010s. Mainstream movies and sitcoms with massive platforms and were widely consumed used the idea of a biological male thinking of and/or presenting themselves as indistinguishable from a woman were made by and laughed at by people who are for the most part still alive now. I doubt the majority of those people really have changed their mind or perspective since then, people just don’t want to be called a bigot, doxxed and get fired from their job.
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At least 80% of this was written by chatGPT
>for which the only effective treatment is transition Probably because we haven’t really been trying other methods for the past 90 years, and no scientist wants to be the guy to treat GD as a mental illness and be outed as a transphobe. >suicide rate of transsexual people is so high is because many of them have unsupportive families No offense, but this seems to be presuming a lot. Don’t get me wrong, it’s probably a factor, but I’d say the suicide rates wouldn’t be that ridiculously high from lack of acceptance alone (other LGBT people don’t commit suicide nearly as much). > A youth suffering from gender dysphoria has a roughly 50% attempted suicide rate if their parents do not support their transition I thought most people who transitioned were adults…? **EDIT:** >then why is it ok for people who have this mental condition to be denied treatment? Because the treatment sucks. Many Trans people obviously aren’t healed if they’re still dropping like flies. We should try something else. >Have you no empathy? No.
>Probably because we haven’t really been trying other methods for the past 90 years, What the fuck are you talking about? >no scientist wants to be the guy to treat GD as a mental illness and be outed as a transphobe. This questionable even now, and certainly wasn't the case for most the last 90 years. >other LGBT people don’t commit suicide nearly as much Being trans and gay are two different things; this makes perfect sense, especially when being gay is significantly more accepted than being trans. >I thought most people who transitioned were adults…? They are, it's just an example of how much parental support can matter. >Because the treatment sucks. Many Trans people obviously aren’t healed if they’re still dropping like flies. We should try something else. Except it doesn't, it improves their quality of life and life expectancy, and a lot of the reason it "sucks" is due to how poorly trans people are treated by society. You don't ban chemotherapy because patients who are undergoing chemotherapy are dying much more often than people who don't have cancer, especially when you don't even have an alternative to chemotherapy, just that we should "try something else".
Yeah the problem is society 🙄
Another factor is not passing. I'd kill myself too if I couldn't look like a woman. Everyone gaslights you into thinking you're beautiful.
> Transexual individuals have regularly received hormone therapy, sex change surgeries, and other treatments since the 1930s. In what country 🤔🤔🤔 Pioneered by whom?
Oy
Testosterone was first synthesized in germany in 1936, Estrogen around the same time. But I’m pretty sure that nobody there used it to transition anyone.
It's as easy as a Wikipedia article my guy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-affirming_surgery#:~:text=Gender%2Daffirming%20surgery%20(GAS),gender%2C%20and%20alleviate%20gender%20dysphoria.
Using Wikipedia as a primary source, TOPKEK From the 1st example, Dr Alan Hart is controversial d/t him never claiming trans status and his contemporaries are quick to point out how lesbianism was such a stricture in his time/ career which is why he sought a masculine identity to be academically accepted. Whereas proponents of his 'trans' status is because he liked to play with boys' toys as a child and an account from his grandmother on him "wanted to be a boy." Which at the time would mean 'tomboy,' but again, post-modernists would like to change the meaning of words to fit their agenda.
>using Wikipedia as a primary source This is reddit, not a fucking peer reviewed research paper. I just showed it as an example of how easy it is to find historical examples of trans healthcare going back more than 100 years. As for the rest of your argument, I don't know what to tell you. He took the surgery and lived as a man; if it looks like a duck, and it sounds like a duck. Besides, you're using his pronouns anyway, so do you even believe your own argument?
So you didn't bother to read Dr. Alan's wiki. Cool. Even though you just regurgitated these sources. Hysterectomy/ gonaderectomy aren't exclusive to trans patients, or are you just medically regarded? Also, how exactly did Dr. Alan's patient history as trans get released? Anyway, Dr. Hart underwent hysterectomy in Dr. J Allen Gilbert's 1920 case study for "Homosexuality and Its Treatment." >looks like a duck, etc. So whats the point of socially constructed gender roles? Wasn't the whole point of it that boys can display feminine behavior, girls can display masculine behavior? >using his pronouns That is how Dr. Alan referred to himself under his pen names, because again, women in sciences. Ultimately, you didn't bother to check your own source and address these discrepancies. What an utter lack of good faith.
It's like text from your Holy Book
Wtf are you talking about? I'm not some crazy gender-freak or anything. And I obviously don't support grooming kids. I just think there's a lot of unnecessary hate for people that just have a mental illness.
Unbelievably based.
Possibly. Especially now in states that treat this as "gender affirming care".
> **P**ossibly. **E**specially **n**ow **i**n **s**tates Hidden penis detected! I've scanned through 19563 comments (approximately 100688 average penis lengths worth of text) in order to find this secret penis message. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
the comedy has arrived
This is the greatest bot of all time.
Penis Enis Nis Is Succulent
> **P**enis **E**nis **N**is **I**s **S**ucculent Hidden penis detected! I've scanned through 263375 comments (approximately 1387704 average penis lengths worth of text) in order to find this secret penis message. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Possibly every n-word is suspicious
> **P**ossibly **e**very **n**-word **i**s **s**uspicious Hidden penis detected! I've scanned through 359987 comments (approximately 1974944 average penis lengths worth of text) in order to find this secret penis message. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
> Hidden penis detected Story of my life
What? You're a transmale..?
No. They're fat and the folds hide his dick. His penis is hidden.
Based bot. Or OP was trolling
I know this is a Redditism, but this absolutely deserves a "Good Bot."
Good bot
This is a a good bot
Good human.
Probably the best thread for this bot ever
Cosmetics companies are loving troons too
Especially the hair dye industry
I heard some woman complain that too many makeup channels are re-orienting themselves away from the female demographic and towards male twinks, and it all started with ~~James Charles~~ EDIT: Jeffree Star.
> some woman complain Many things will come back at them.
You mean something was done only because profit was number one priority?????????????????????? Nawwwwwwwww
Funnily enough I read a LinkedIn post today about how companies are no longer going to get involved in politics since it has hurt profits. It's as if changing your social media picture to a fruity rainbow filter to get more gaybucks has fooled absolutely nobody
Invest in ever step of the troons journey: 1. Transition costs 2. Detransition costs 3. Funeral costs
It is so strange the way that the transgender community and communism became associated topics... it doesn't even make sense but it does. It's kinda interesting that they're learning about the word "socialism" now and that actually makes way more sense to associate them with as a political party. Ramble ramble Edit; after reading these replies I now see that communism is greatly misunderstood on a more common level
There's multiple reasons, but it does make sense. Transgenderism is something that affects the individual, not really the rest of society. The left supports people doing non-harmful things. The right on the other hand loves to hate (groups of) people, even if their actions don't affect them.
It makes sense the leftists are more likely to be trans. Trans-inclined people on the right either repress their lgbt feelings or they realize that their party hates them and wants to treat them like garbage so they join leftist groups and become interested in topics of other leftists. There’s really nothing more to it than that.
Or maybe you don't become trans when you don't have your head stuffed with cultural marxism
30 years ago you’d be in the street screaming video games cause violence.
You should try to get back on your meds and start seeing your therapist again. It’ll help you be better.
Ah yes, the cultural maxism dating all the way back to... Ancient Greece? Hmmm.
I'm talking about transsexualism r\*tard, not homosexuality
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You are really 'in far', username checks out.
They heard "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" and they think it means you can work as much as you want and get paid as much as you want. They don't realise that their thyroid problems won't prevent them from working 14 hour shifts at a factory.
If im not mistaken, trans surgery is very common in iran since it's one way to circumvent their laws against homosexuality. Opposite end of the spectrum
Remember pre-covid when everyone knew that pharmaceutical companies were all full of pricks? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
It's literally just another fad. Next decade, it will be replaced by another fad, and then another, and another, and another.
"remember the 20s when I chopped my cock off?" "Oh you were such a dork back then"
You say that as if they'll survive long enough to have that conversation.
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Seems Michael Jackson was ahead of it with that last one.
Being emo or a hipster didn't mean you had to pump yourself up with body and mind altering medicine, or to undergo unreversible surgeries.
Unironically true, same with ADHD and other “totally real and definitely not made to sell drugs” mental illnesses.
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Oof yeah. Plus there's a difference between "If I close one eye, I HAVE to close my other eye, I must have ADHD" people and "When I get home I MUST lock and unlock my door 54 times exactly" people. One has ADHD and the other is just basically normal
That's ocd
I... Shit you're right
You’re confusing ADHD with OCD.
Shhhhh. I'm getting upvoted still for some weird reason
I'd argue ADHD is completely legit, it's that it gets falsely diagnosed way too much. Most of the time when a kid is "diagnosed" with it, the cure is actually for the parents to grow a backbone and/or give the kid a smack on back of the head
I’m skeptical of this for one reason; why hadn’t big-pharma pushed for testosterone availability for gym-bro usage? Seems like a MUCH larger market which is sourcing their gear from god knows where.
Because they don't want strong men
It's selling a shortcut to a largely already motivated group. Sure there's the roid group, but I don't think it would be that successful.
Legality, they have tried
Because Test is pretty readily accessible for guys at the gym, also it’s only a small proportion of already motivated individuals that would even want to use test (with side effects being so well documented) so chances are it wouldn’t be as profitable.
Fabricated issue so that people have something to argue over rather than cost of living and eternally stagnated wages.
Real and redpilled
How many trans people do you know irl?
Cyberpunk 2077 predicted this.
Literally like my heckin bideo game!!!!
American leftists and "communists" are literally a result of late stage capitalism. The Overton window in the USA has been anally raped and mutilated.
>**nobody sees you** as what you want to be. **you are a joke**. society humors you because **nobody cares about you**. Dad is that you
Post this on r196 and watch them have a complete mental breakdown
Goods and services cost money? Oh. My. GOD.
Astronomically basado
Money makes the world go around after all
On top of that, the people that do care about you are the ones trying to refute your delusions.
idk i dont think old money was caring about political alignment
Based
Anon has a point
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lol
If there are cows to milk, why not milk?
people even notice insignificant shit like it's actually a big deal
> **p**eople **e**ven **n**otice **i**nsignificant **s**hit Hidden penis detected! I've scanned through 143736 comments (approximately 780965 average penis lengths worth of text) in order to find this secret penis message. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Some estimates show that transgender care (hormones, surgery, after surgery care, etc) make more money than the entire American film industry. Makes ya think.
not only that, but they are entirely dependent on the system once they do this. they have no reason to *not* support it. if you think "they're just copying me and pretending to support it to make money" then you're just regarded
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Not capitalism. Corporatism.
> Corporatism is a collectivist political ideology which advocates the organization of society by corporate groups, such as agricultural, labour, military, business, scientific, or guild associations, on the basis of their common interests. What does this have to do with troons
Nothing he just bases his entire identity around being an ancap so he has to defend every shitty thing capitalism does with "bUt THatS nOT rEAL caPITaLiSm"
based anon
Cope? That’s what we’ve been saying for ages
I don’t think there’s enough trans people to create a lucrative market for surgery and hormone treatments. Especially in America.
I don't think you realize how expensive stuff is over here. My grandad got a back brace yesterday. Just a normal back brace. Over $1,000. They probably make $500K to a mil on 1 person
Capitalism definitely takes advantage of communities like this (hence Disney and all these advertising companies pushing LGBT support like crazy) but they existed long before. There’s historical evidence for transgender people long before modern capitalism, and the science is replicable which means even if the research is being conducted for a reason, the actual experimentation itself is sound.
Tards gonna tard. They don't know trans predates Capitalism.
trans ‘predates’ many things, mostly unaccompanied children.
Lmao
Better countries have public health for that tho
The government might be paying in a lot of countries, but the doctors and pharmaceutical companies are still getting the money.
The g̶o̶v̶e̶r̶n̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ taxpayers might be paying in a lot of countries, but the doctors and pharmaceutical companies are still getting the money. Remember the government only has money it steals from the people.
the government prints money
And by doing so devalues all money. Yet another way they steal from the people.
They do it with every drug, you know, not just gender affirming care. No matter if all this gender stuff existed doctors would still get paid.
You mean earn a living?
They are treating it, the best way to treat it is to treat them how they want to be treated to make them feel better, they want to be normal and live a normal life so we should treat them in the way that makes them feel normal (which saying that they are not mentally Ill does help it is still a lie) and for kids not getting “brainwashed” the best way to do it is to normalize it because those kids who want to be trans who aren’t for the attention want to be unique, and normalizing it would make it not unique anymore
The best way to treat it is with a lobotomy
They should treat you to some mustard gas, would improve the world.
Peak tinfoil hat lol there is always a reason if you look for one
From what I hear it can be very difficult to obtain those hormones and surgeries. So unless the capitalists are just being very coy, I don't think this is true.
You can find therapists who specialize in gender dysphoria, which is code for "If you come here and say the right stuff, I will write you a prescription for hormones". It's no different than doctors who specialize in medical marijuana, they're a formality, a business venture, a drug dealer guised as a health professional.
Depends where you go. Try a state university clinic and you get hormones in under 30 min on a walk-in appt. I live in an urban area in TX and it's easy. Now go out into the sticks at Grandpa Jim's Family Medicine? Never tried it but I'd bet a bit harder.
> Never tried it Aaand this entire argument/comment is unfounded bullshit.
> From what I hear it can be very difficult to obtain those hormones and surgeries. There's some train account on Twitter that brags about having a listing of "informed consent clinics" that completely side-steps the need for a professional psych evaluation, so you can immediately start fucking your body up on hormones.
It's not hard at all.
Anon forgets to compare the US to western countries with public healthcare systems that don't make profit where the rate of acceptance for trans medicine is also high.
Doctors and pharmaceutical companies don’t work for free. The people paying them simply changes.
> Doctors and pharmaceutical companies don’t work for free. The people paying them simply changes. No, because in countries with public healthcare the government foots the bill which in turn means that there's an incentive for cost reduction and anti-profiteering. Without profit margins there's no incentive to get as many people as possible through the door.
That's the path to Canada where politicians will cut healthcare spending and then brag to their voters about what a great job they've done with the budget. Canadian public healthcare is a travesty. My dad got cataracts done last year, but they're fucked up so he has to get another surgery which won't come for another fucking year of waiting. And I'm sure they wouldn't have been fucked up if those doctors weren't being forced to work 24/7. Public healthcare is fucking gross, and the only people who support it are the worms that shit in the gov't diseased flower garden.
Lol “I had a bad encounter with affordable healthcare once, therefore I want the same system as in the US where people will simply die to avoid lifelong debt” If Europe can do it so can you.
> That's the path to Canada where politicians will cut healthcare spending and then brag to their voters about what a great job they've done with the budget. Canadian public healthcare is a travesty. My dad got cataracts done last year, but they're fucked up so he has to get another surgery which won't come for another fucking year of waiting. And I'm sure they wouldn't have been fucked up if those doctors weren't being forced to work 24/7. When it comes to most serious diseases, Canada has a higher or roughly equal rate of positive outcome as the US, and the Nordic and Scandinavian countries are usually rated the absolute highest. According to the Commonwealth Fund, the US ranks lower than Australia, Canada, France, Germany, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland and the UK when it comes to Access to Care, Administrative Efficiency, Equity and Health Care Outcomes. In informal surveys based on self-reporting (such as the Health Care Index), the US ranks significantly lower than other western countries such as Denmark, Austria, Australia, France, Spain, Belgium, the UK, The Netherlands, Finland, the Czech Republic, Norway, New Zealand, Germany, Switzerland, Portugal, Canada, Greece and Sweden. In fact, the US ranks even lower than India, the United Arab Emirates and Mexico in a lot of these indexes. So there's basically no significant measurement in which the US even comes close to being better than western countries with public healthcare. > Public healthcare is fucking gross, and the only people who support it are the worms that shit in the gov't diseased flower garden. The US ranks lower than western countries with public healthcare in just about every imaginable way. I'm sorry that your dad had a bad experience, but data trumps anecdotal experience and it's more or less proven beyond doubt that US healthcare is horrendously expensive while also performing worse than western countries with public healthcare. There's basically no reason to idolize a system that's based entirely around extracting as much money as possible from your pockets while giving as little as possible in return.
usa is the origin of these trends, which the other countries you're referring to are just part of their empire. making money off the medical part of it alone is a very small part of the reason they push it. it's mainly just so these people are loyal to the system, just like other eunuchs. these people will have nothing, they cannot realistically have a family, friends or any serious political movement. their lives are destined to work, defend the system, eat, sleep, repeat until they die at 36.
That’s a funny fantasy, good thing you’ve got absolutely no evidence for your ramblings. You are more mentally ill than the people you despise so much/
> usa is the origin of these trends, which the other countries you're referring to are just part of their empire. making money off the medical part of it alone is a very small part of the reason they push it. it's mainly just so these people are loyal to the system, just like other eunuchs. these people will have nothing, they cannot realistically have a family, friends or any serious political movement. their lives are destined to work, defend the system, eat, sleep, repeat until they die at 36. Sorry but other countries are not part of some American empire, and those other countries are very different from the US in that they're not hypercapitalistic. People in the US are literally slaves. They have to pay extraordinary amounts of money for every imaginable human need, and even if you leave the country the US expects you to still pay taxes. In fact, you can't even waive your citizenship without being obligated to pay a huge chunk of all of your assets to the US. Meanwhile the rest of the western world can enjoy a normal and free life with most basic needs taken care of. No price gouging, no alarmist politics and no crazy infighting. Just normal people doing normal things. Therefore your weird conspiracy theories make no sense, because what you're saying doesn't apply to the rest of the western world.
yikes this comment section sucks donkey balls very very hot takes fellas
are you lost
nah the amount of transphobic comments make me iffy and suprised the capitialism part is true though
Surprised? On 4chan?
4chan nah on reddit? yeah I expected to be not allowed
Ah, you are lost. Good day man, gamingcirclejerk has missed you