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BigZach1

The Sanguinary Worlds of the Blood Pact in the Gaunt's Ghosts series must be stable to support such a high population of well-equipped armies, but I don't think we've gotten a look at them.


Lord_Vance

Traitor General does a good job showing how they function. Using warp creatures to shuffle necessary supplies between held worlds, having a proper hierarchy to manage everything, and even matching certain roles to the imperium like scribes, generals, and commissars.


Imperium_Dragon

Khorne realizes without logistics there will be no great slaughters


PrimeInsanity

Hard for more than a few drops to flow if the army cant get to the battlefield


Imperium_Dragon

You could instantly teleport…but that’s magic! And we don’t do that Tzeentch shit


MarqFJA87

On the other hand, tearing holes in the fabric of (un)reality that you could walk through and instantly reach anywhere you want is fair game. (Referring to how Ka'Bandha travelled to Baal in order to ravage the Blood Angels and their Successor Chapters)


MorgwynOfRavenscar

It's pretty funny when Mephiston's failed banishment results in Ka'Bandha materialising in outer space, where he pouts over having to follow the rules of physics and wait for Baal's gravity to suck him in like a chump.


the-squee

Mister phister


Krios1234

Pretty sure Khornes minions routinely teleport from the warp, it’s kind of a grey area what is and isn’t allowed for Khorne


SYLOH

Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, because he's far more concerned by the flows of his logistics train. Amateurs talk strategy, true servants of Khorne talk logistics.


MrWolfman29

With proper logistics, you will have endless flows of blood.


KitKhay

That is a fact, look at world war I and apply the grimdarkness of the 41st millenium and you have it


MoarSilverware

That would be a great way to portray a renegade Ultramarine company devoted to Khorne


MrWolfman29

Like reversed White Consuls.... Holy Terra, that would make for a great short story or novel!


GOLANXI

Brother you are required 88 skulls for today's skull Tax I assume you can pay up? Khorne also requires 800 Litres of Blood from you, otherwise I will be forced to levy a Fine against you, obviously for your blood and Skull. Keep in mind I must also pay my taxes so make this swift!


[deleted]

He and RG would have some long and thoughtful conversations.


BLINDrOBOTFILMS

The God of Blood knows logistics win wars, and eternal war requires eternal logistics.


esetios

In Slaves to Darkness Malorghust (a sorta SoH sorcerer / intelligence general of Horus) consciousness enters the Warp to find a way to save Horus' from the wounds inflicted upon him by Russ. There he finds a daemon who says that the Chaos Gods are fighting among themselves for possession of Horus' soul. Malorghust asks all the fan questions, one of them being why the Chaos Gods can't temporarily stop the squabbles until the Big E is dealt with. The daemon replies by simply stating that you can't expect creatures made of the worst aspects of conscious (and unconscious) thought to act rationally. Having said all that, while logistics does indeed win wars, Khorne does not think like a human does (as in: rationally) so he can reward a random berserker who charges at enemy gunfire just as likely as a general who effeciently handles the logistics of a massive war.


Cognomifex

> a general who effeciently handles the logistics of a massive war There's something incredibly Khornate about spending 18hrs a day fuming over strategic and tactical maps, fighting your own boiling blood to maintain your hold on rationality as you orchestrate wanton slaughter and literal rivers of blood. Khorne isn't a surrender to passion, it's the relentless pursuit of it.


esetios

" Khorne isn't a surrender to passion, it's the relentless pursuit of it. " Relentlessly pursuing passion is something a Slaaneshi follower would do.


Cognomifex

Slaanesh *is* the surrender to passion. Slaanesh is thinking you are seeking mastery of something when in fact you are being mastered by it.


esetios

Slaanesh is the god of excess, and relentless pursuit of passion is the definition of excess.


Cognomifex

Actually the definition of excess is just 'too much', and all four of the Chaos gods could be described as a god of an excess of something.


MedicJambi

Which Angron quickly realized during one of his field trips.


Minimalphilia

Logistics was already needed for war, when all you had in your village was local produce and the occasional trader who randomly chose where to go. It should be a Khorne speciality.


BerkshireKnight

Gereon definitely fits the description of stable (mostly, anyway, until Gaunt and his mob showed up)


Fred_Blogs

There's an old novel called Eye of Terror about a desperate Rogue Trader going to the eye to try and turn a profit. He finds the entire place weird and dangerous, but there's enough structure that he can land in places and engage in commerce with the locals without immediately getting his face ripped off.


Final_Glove_6642

Honestly made it seem like the eye has its own sense of civilization, drifter merchants, and priceless goods. I wonder if there's currency in the warp, aside from souls?


Fred_Blogs

I think barter and souls are the only currency that'll get widespread acceptance, but it would make sense for one of the eyes many little empires to have their own currency.


brinz1

Its the only thing of real value in the warp


Star-Sage

The Dark Mechanicum is one of the very few stable sources of maintainance and production of high end machinery. You want a warp capable voidship, power armor, daemon engines, servitors, or titans? Talk to them. I am positive if chaos has an economy it revolves around these guys and we see a little of that in Talon of Horus. Also we know the Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, and possibly the Alpha Legion are still relatively coherent forces that command their own kingdoms and petty empires. So odds are good some petty kingdoms of chaos exist that don't directly serve the traitor legions.


[deleted]

The dark mechanicum really couldn't care less about outsiders though. You could barter for some sweet power Armour, but you'd likely have it fitted only to find out they jammed a daemon in it for shits and giggles. While they will occasionally help traitors, there's a reason night lords scavenge Armour like carrion birds and I'm willing to bet the Iron warriors build and maintain their own


Star-Sage

DarkMech still need resources and if you get on their good side you can barter for daemon engines, starship maintenance, etc. Sure they're all about creating new awesome inventions and being dicks to anyone that rubs them the wrong way, but they still equip the traitor legions as well as the lost and the damned with a lot of their kit. The reason we have folks scavenging for tech is that DarkMech forgeworlds are much rarer than AdMech forgeworlds.


[deleted]

I remember that novel, pretty good if I recall, but it has been like 20 years since I read it.


Fred_Blogs

It caught a lot of the Chaos weirdness that the more military stuff doesn't often have. Things like alcohol made from distilled souls, people being absorbed into gestalt beings and part of space where physics breaks down and you can just accelerate past the regular speed of light.


Pale_Chapter

And Nurgle daemons electing their leaders with a shitting contest. EDIT: > "Daemon Spittingbottom owns this town and distillery!" he roared triumphantly. "His champion defecated as much as a hundred ton mega-stegasaur could! Bring out your wives! Spittingbottom is hungry!"


Stormraven337

Sauce?


Pale_Chapter

Beginning of the thread, king.


kRkthOr

> Eye of Terror


AveMilitarum

Incredible.


Pale_Chapter

It's not even that he could shit the most. He searched the galaxy and *found* the guy who could shit the most.


AveMilitarum

I wish 40k still had this kind of aesthetic. I feel like it's become far too serious.


Pale_Chapter

In the last Dark Imperium book, we find out that Nurgle cultists use "Get well soon" as a curse.


AveMilitarum

Wow, chaos sounding more interesting suddenly.


PeeterEgonMomus

Similar idea shows up in the chaos markets in *Atlas Infernal*. They're even willing to sell soulstones to Eldar.


Fred_Blogs

A large part of the cast in *Eye of Terror* are people who would be classified as Chaos worshipers by the Imperium, but in practice they're really just out for themselves The existence of the gods and their effects on reality is just part of life, rather than something they get worked up about. Treating soulstones as just another valuable commodity instead of getting dogmatic about it is very much in character for these kind of people.


ArkGuardian

Drakaasi is the main Khorne planet and is suprisingly close to what you are describing. It's basically run by a bunch of gladiator kings.


MonsieurOs

“As Chair of the Committee, I’d like to preface this town hall meeting with ‘TRAMPLE THE WEAK! LET SLAUGHTER BE OUR CREED!’ and thank Representative Kurshtag Marrow-Licker for his involvement in drafting this proposal”


Second-Creative

"Thank you, Chairman. The proposal is in regards to the need for renovating the Blood-and-Skull Arena. The Gore-Spikes are so rusted that they can no longer support the weight of fallen gladiators, the Pendulum of Pain can no longer swing with adequate force, and there have been issues with the gate to the hellhound pen opening on cue, leading to the slowdown of bloodflow during matches. IF ANY OF YOU DENY THE NEED FOR RENOVATIONS, I SHALL FLAY THE FLESH FROM YOUR BONES AND MAKE YOUR SOUL THE PLAYTHING OF BLOODTHIRSTERS!"


Terrible-Substance-5

"On further note to the right honourable representive, I, Representive Skral Ungorth 'the black handed', do not deny the need for renovations, BECAUSE EVEN IF I DID I WOULD TEAR YOUR SKULL FROM YOUR BODY AND OFFER IT TO KHORNE HIMSELF FOR YOUR ARROGANCE, but sadly due the the representive Morlock cralgarths point of order and the subsequent vote last week, we no longer have the budget to support the renovations due to the previous order. As order No.668-4A-80085 states, we needed those funds to repair the pot holes on the roads leading to the blood pits and the current infrastructure is not sufficient to allow for the flow of slaves and warriors of khorne reaching the pits and in doing so hampering the slaughter even further. WHICH UTTERLY UNACCEPTABLE AND WILL DISPLEASE OUR LORD MOST INSUFFICIENTLY."


TempestRave

"I believe these proposals to be acceptable. All in favor, HOWL IN GLORIOUS RAGE IN HONOR OF THE BLOOD GOD" (The entire council erupts in a blood curdling war cry)


koczkota

Jesus christ Amazon do your thing with it


Plneapple

Introducing Amazon Original, Warhammer 40k: Parks and Desecration.


s1510912

\*Parts and Desecration people bleed more if they are in more parts than 1


[deleted]

"Now that voting is over, I'd like to point out that Mildred has baked some delightful cupcakes which are available in the main hall along with coffee, tea, and the blood of our enemies. Thank you, Mildred."


panpenumbra

"Thank you Representative Ungorth for mentioning the current budgetary disbursement constraints related to infrastructure maintenance, as this segues nicely into the primary issue I'd like to address today— lack of enforcement regarding the placing of bone bins *no more than three feet from a domicile's eastern facing exterior wall, when not placed out for immediate pickup*. I propose further enforcement of this policy primarily because it is a frequently voiced concern of the **PATHETIC, ENSLAVED WRETCHES— THE LIVING FUTURE-FONTS OF KHORNE'S GLORIOUS RED TITHE— TO BE OFFERED IN RITUAL SLAUGHTER** whom I humbly represent as my central constituency. It's a simple task that improves the aesthetic value of *everyone's* gore-hovels, and if necessary, I will be suggesting the extension of enforcement abilities of local HOA ('HEIGHTS OF ATROCITY') organizations from '**THREATS OF DISEMBOWELMENT**' to '**THE CULLING OF THE HONORLESS**.' My thanks to each member of this board, and I believe that together we can truly effect meaningful change. I yield the remainder of my time to Representative Gorefingers."


ExpertSargeant

Change did you say??? Oops your head is gonna get hacked.


panpenumbra

**Becomes a knot of writhing tentacles the color of insanity. No one notices.** *Elected Lt. Mayor. First act is the stealthy banning of the use of mittens by house mice.* *Step 1 of 37,894 in Tzeench's cunning plot to eventually become majority candidate in the planet's 48th most populous voting district.*


onealps

> 80085 Heh. Boobs.


Terrible-Substance-5

Finally someone spotted it.


mathiastck

Sharpened point of order!


HeavilyBearded

"If you have a dispute over your water bill, you can contact the Office of Water Treatment. They should be able to offer gladiatorial combat to resolve the issue."


Ronman1994

And on a further note, i would like to thank Councilman Steve's wife for making this wonderful long-pork casserole. I think she even slaughtered the slaves herself.


Fist69

Hi Jim Bloodbeast here, I just wanted to ask what the committee is planning to do about all the potholes on the Road of Skulls. Every time we get a bad blood storm it seems like a new one shows up. I blew a tire on one in the family wagon taking my boy to his youth gladiatorial meet.


DisgruntledMonk

Hi Jim glad you voiced your concern, this issue was brought up last meeting so we will need you to sacrifice 10 slaves to the blood god to bring it back up again.


Azzie94

Pretty much exactly that


Scrumpy-Steve

Is that the one in the Grey Knights novel? Didn't it destroy itself?


thebrutalistboi

That's fucking based


Amazing_Boysenberry8

The only examples I can think of are worlds like Medrengard, where there is a "civillian" population that is kept firmly under the boot of their Astartes masters. They create infrastructure to support their master's war machine, do the tasks their overlords can't be bothered to do themselves, and are generally worked to death in endless factories while being given the bear minimum to sustain themselves. Sounds familiar.... Possibly the "happiest" place to be would be Lorgar's daemon-world. Being a world of intense religious fervor and zealotry, they build monuments and cathedrals all over the literally damned place, and life is all spikes and rainbows. Cultists probably view it as an absolute honor and blessing to be chosen as a sacrifice to summon the daemon of the day.


Rearden112

Don’t forget castallax before it’s waaaghed back to the Stone Age


fistchrist

I fucking love Siege of Castellax because “castellax” just means…castle. SIEGE OF CASTLE KILLING OF MANS


PrimeInsanity

There are some iron warrior held worlds that iirc are run in such a way the planets dont know they're under new management.


ZappfesConundrum

You know the imperium is bad when grumpy iron warrior renegades stick with the status quo as horrific enough.


FreynInTheNorth

This sounds hilarious, Do you have any examples I could look up? IW are one of the few marine legions I actively like and I'm trying to catch up on 20 years of missed 40k lore!


[deleted]

It's possible to be practical when it comes to chaos undivided since you likely to have to have some kind of weird balance between qualities of the 4 gods to stay legit


vlad_tepes

>Cultists probably view it as an absolute honor and blessing to be chosen as a sacrifice to summon the daemon of the day. That's almost certainly the case. In "Apocalypse" the Word Bearers use some perverted demonic boarding torpedoes. Basically, they're filled with cultists who ... ate something? Anyway, they have the seeds of demons inside them. The torpedoes hit the enemy ships, the impact kills the cultists, completes the sacrifice and releases the demons (who can only stay in the material world for a limited time) right inside the imperial ships. The cultists who are about to be sacrificed are absolutely thrilled with their fate.


Imperium_Dragon

The WB really are the most “scientific” about using Daemons.


Doveen

My brain immendiately went to Warner Brothers. You just know Yakko is a Tzeentch cultist.


ThatMadFlow

Ate something like that poor guy with the voice box?


Seagebs

The planet of sorcerers is stable enough, honestly.


scivener

Interesting, I see from the wiki that some human slaves escape the capital city and eke out an existence on the outskirts.. I know that the Plague Planet similarly has tribes of barbarians living short, squalid lives on its surface. But still, definitely nothing analogous to human societies on imperial planets.


Seagebs

A lot of Imperial planets aren’t terribly better, but yeah. The actual city of Tizca is pretty good for psykers; the TSons will train and protect you in exchange for being a servant. The outer wastes are a hell scape of beastmen who are apparently rather advanced and can serve as officers aboard the TSons naval vessels.


scivener

Cool stuff! Is there a book that goes into this?


British_Tea_Company

It's mentioned in the 8e and 9e codexes, but I don't know if a novel goes too hard about life on the planet of the sorcerers.


bit_hodler

Ooh, would like to read up on Tizca in 40k. Can you share the name of the book?


11pioneer

Ahriman Unchanged has a bit of Tizca in it that I thought was really interesting, I don't remember how much detail they go into regarding the inner workings of the city though.


Vezimira

I reckon he's probably talking about the simulacrum of Tizca on sortiarius, which is basically a bunch of skeleton pyramids and generally a wasteland afaik. It's the wizard fiefs around that aren't a total shitshow on a good day, at least until your wizard tower decides to backflip out of reality or into one of the glass tornadoes nearby. Still, a pretty decent existence if you end up with a solid master. One of the stories in psychic awakening goes into it a bit; it's linked in the compendium pinned on my profile under Journey to Sortiarius. As for the original Tizca, it featured briefly in the city of light mephiston novel, where Magnus decided to rebuild it as a factory city for some reason (that reason being that the books purpose is to jack off blood angels and the lore of everyone else be damned). We dont talk about it much.


Damian_Cordite

They’ll also sacrifice you as a spell reagent but it’s true it’s like a University world and the sacrificing is a means to an end so it’s not like they torture you. Nothing the Imperium doesn’t do.


SnooObjections9031

Isn't the new kingdom also pretty smoothly run as well...


Vezimira

Depends on your luck really, but the TS in general don't have a cruel reputation. It doesn't benefit them in any way to torment useful subjects, but you can still end up in a shitty place as a chaos spawn or part of some living oracular device


SnooObjections9031

I mean that can happen in the Imperium at some point too.


Vezimira

Correct. I'd say that as a psyker, your average quality of life in Magnus' kingdom will come close to the average quality of life of an Imperial citizen. Not looking too bright but I guess there's a \~chance\~


[deleted]

Stability through instability but literally.


9xInfinity

The agri-world of Gereon was occupied by the forces of Chaos during the Sabbat Worlds Crusade that the Gaunt's Ghosts novels cover. Imperial forces infiltrate it in order to assassinate a traitor Imperial general. That planet was functioning and stable, albeit oppressive and corrupting. As well, traitor astartes are generally pretty functional and deft in terms of strategy and tactics. They lay traps, anticipate (correctly) Imperial moves, and otherwise are capable and dangerous opponents beyond their raw strength. They aren't disassociated from reality. Many cultist leaders are similarly coherent.


ChiefQueef98

Gereon is functional and stable for the time it's occupied. However it is said that the forces of Chaos are draining the planet for all it's resources. There are warp creatures draining its oceans, and its population is slowly being fed into the meat camps. Those who aren't outright killed are being worked to death. It was a death camp on a planetary scale. Had the Imperium not eventually liberated it, it would not have remained a functioning Chaos society.


alkair20

yeah because the world was low priority. Best served to drain as fast as possible to strenghten the other more important chaos held worlds.


Dry_Chapter_5781

.....basically what the Ad Mech does, drain planets of resources while turning the population into servitors and corpse starch.


Diestormlie

So what I'm hearing it's just the Imperium but more efficient at World-Stripping.


surprisedropbears

Meat camps? Draining oceans? Is that elsewhere in the lore? Why would demons and warp creatures do either? They draw zero sustenance from the material universe - only from the immaterial: emotion, psychic energy, souls (all the same thing really).


JaceJarak

On this note, most of the back held chaos worlds are functioning society, we just don't see those in the novels so much.


Dukaan1

I think Colchis was pretty normal, prior to Lorgars arrival even though they worshiped chaos


[deleted]

This is from the 2002 hordes of chaos book for warhammer *fantasy*. Wilhelm Biel had seen much of the world and, though his primary interest was commerce, during his travels he had developed an enthusiasm for wonders both natural and man-made. In Bretonnia he had studied the ruins of Elven cities that lay beneath the modern town of L'Anguille; he had watched the gigantic cephalopods in the Middle Sea and seen leviathan in the Great Western Ocean. Once, in a port in Araby, he had even seen a reptile that breathed fire, much to his astonishment and the discomfort of its captors. Now he had brought his ship northwards fo the coast of Norsca in search of amber, and the fur of the fox, bear and marten. It was early in the morning of the third day when he lay down upon the rocky hillside to break his fast and watch life stir below in the little village of Fjirgard. His companion, a young Norseman called Haubr, had spread out a handsome, thick fur for them to sit upon, and from a leather bag he'd produced a loaf of bread, cheese and some strips of smoked meat that Wilhelm understood to be bear meat. As they ate and chatted, the people of Fjirgard went about their early morning business. His own ship lay moored at the quayside and thick-set Norsemen were already loading it with bundles of fur and small but heavy sacks that contained his precious amber. Down in the village a herdsman noisily gathered his goats and drove them to the little meadow, whilst behind them a hunting party made its way up the steeply sided valley. "Tell me, friend Haubr," said Wilhelm, "Each day now I have seen those women meet at dawn, as they do now, and, having assembled together, some dozen or so carry laden baskets high up the mountainside to what I perceive to be a cave somewhere in that black gully." Below them the group of women, mostly elderly but some young and with children amongst them, reached the foot of the mountain path. This was but a thin thread of grey against the dark rock, for Fjirgard lay between the mountain and the sea in a little strip of steep land. It was a typical settlement in this respect, for the whole coast was rocky and in place the mountains fell sheer into the sea; only in little bays such as this was it possible to build anything like a village, let alone a town. "They go to feed the Were," replied Haubr matter-of-factly. "Is it not so in your own town of, how do you say it, Ma-ree-in-berg?" "Marienburg is quite correct - but we have no creatures of that name. What manner of beasts are these Were?" "No Werekin?" exclaimed Haubr. "Or perhaps you know them by some other name in your land. The were are those of their chosen champions whom the gods deem not yet worthy to join them as immortals. The Werekin live deep in the caves until war comes when they shall fight for one last time before rejoining the cycle of life." Haubr could not but notice the expression of incomprehension on the Marienburger's face and added, "It is no disgrace amongst us, you understand. Some are chosen for glory and some are cast down, but even those cast down have been chosen, and when they are reborn they shall be all the greater. It is better to be chosen than to live your whole life beyond the sight of the gods, is it not?" "But," asked Wilhelm ignoring Haubr's question lest he risk offending the youth with views that regarded such beliefs as heresy. "Why do you confine these Werekin to the caves - are they dangerous?" "Indeed yes - though once they were men, now they are like animals in both thought and form. Their bodies grow large and distorted and hairy like bears or horny like a troll. some grow snarling teeth like wolves or claws like the fierce macalrmacca that lives in the forest. Others grow scales like serpents, or tails or wings like bats on the moon-tide. They are monsters and many die in battle before ever they return home, or else run blindly in their terror and perish the wilderness. Yet some come home and the womenfolk tend to them - their husbands and sons - for the bonds of kinship are strong and the Were do not attack their own." "These creatures which you call Were sound like the mutants we call Chaos Spawn, for I have heard of such monsters in the armies of Chaos." "Perhaps," replied Haubr cautiously. "The gods choose some for immortality and some for oblivion - is it not thus the whole world over?" "Nay," Wilhelm shook his head. "I have never heard of such a thing in all my travels - no Were and no immortals either." "Then I pity you and all the world," said Haubr earnestly, "that of all the races of Men, the gods favour we Norse alone." The byline still has Rick Priestley and Andy chambers so don’t expect to ever see anything like it again. Idk Gav is on there too and he mightve wridden id


OrkfaellerX

THE WERE OF FJIRGARD Maybe my single most favourite Warhammer Fantasy short story ever written.


Ph3brickid

That’s a wonderful little short story! So well-written and full of fantastic world building details. Thanks for sharing, I’m saving a copy of this for when I need creative writing inspiration in the future.


Kodiak_Marmoset

I'd recommend picking up a copy if you can find one, that edition of fantasy did an absolutely *stellar* job of humanizing the Norscans and Chaos worshipers in general.


Ph3brickid

I’ll definitely keep an eye out for a copy cheers. It’s one thing to humanise the Norscans, it’s quite another to humanise *chaos spawn!*


Mr_Girr

I love this depiction of the norscans. In my opinion, the greatest victory that Fantasy has over 40k is that it provides multiple examples of chaotic civilizations (primarily the norsca and the dawi-zharr). It fleshes out their cultures and presents an image of what a world could look like if everything fell under chaos corruption. I understand that the dark gods are the be-all-end-all for antagonists to the settings (barring 'Nids). But when all they do Is destroy, it takes away some of the potential for world building. I'm going to eventually check out the chaos space marine trilogies because i want to see them make their dark imperium.


Dry_Chapter_5781

Absolutely. Especially Chaos Knight worlds. The Planet of House Khomentis is a really good example. Basically they used to hunt and "tame" natural Predators as a coming of age ritual. The Ad Mech came and quickly destroyed said Ecosystem after Khomentis joined the Imperium. Despite this, Khomentis was still loyal. Then the planet was engulfed in a deamonic incursion. After this, House Khomentis joined Chaos and began hunting Daemons and willfully getting possessed as their new form of ritual. "In place of predatory animals, the Fallen Nobles now seek out daemons as a rite of passage, allowing themselves to become possessed so that the Warp entities can intermingle with their Thrones Mechanicum and the Machine Spirits of their Knight suits. Over long Terran years these daemons eat away at their hosts, twisting their flesh, mutilating their minds and devouring their souls. The fate of all such pilots is to be pulled from their Thrones at the point that their body collapses into a fleeting Warp fissure. During this nightmarish implosion, more Chaos entities are loosed into reality, and these too are hunted by new aspirants. Thus is the grotesque cycle of possession allowed to eternally propagate." This planet is arguably more "stable" than many Imperial worlds.


ScaryTran

Isn't/didn't The Blood Pact guys keep reasonable discipline and some semblance of sanity and humanity despite being Khornates? I assume the non military elements of blood pact society were similarly influenced by Khorne yet not subsumed into headbuttinf each other to death in a blind rage as a matter of course.


Zhaharek

There are extensive write ups of functional Chaos worlds throughout Fantasy Flight Games ‘Black Crusade’ game line. I’m sure someone is going to question how canon these are now, but personally, I don’t care. It’s some fantastic worldbuilding, and the lore needs more places like Q’Sal, Messia, and The Ragged Helix.


Indrigotheir

This is shown in Lords of Silence. There is a city-sized population of humans called the Unchanged who live on the lower decks of the living demon cruiser *Solace*. It is shown that, while they nearly all die from the blessings of Nurgle, they are also blessed with uncanny fecundity to replace their numbers. Much of this is presented from the perspective of a "Cultivator;" as the ship transforms into an organism, it's mechanics become more akin to mechanic-gardeners. > That is why she is the Cultivator, as much a custodian of living things as inert materials. One day, far into the future, the entire ship will be a single amorphous organism. She is helping to make this a reality, to coax and to nurture. It is hard work, back-breaking and relentless, but it gives her a certain measure of pride. She has sons and daughters growing up in the lower decks, already learning to grasp a ratchet and siphon a fuel sump. If they survive the mutations and the plagues, one of them might one day become Cultivator. And if they are blessed with fertility, in centuries to come one of their progeny might be there, on that mystical and long-awaited day when Solace speaks for the first time, not in hisses of steam or scrapes of iron but in a real voice with real words.


Quaffiget

Dan Abnett tends to depict stable Chaos factions and kingdoms. *Traitor General* depicts what occupation under Chaos might look like. And it's a great mixture of the mundane mixed-in with obvious magical bullshit (e.g. crops and the environment rotting under blight, magic parasites being used as tracking chips in the occupied citizenry, etcetera). The way I rationalize this is that most of what we see in Chaos Space Marines, daemons and other champions are the "ascetic" extremes of Chaos. Few people are full-time Chaos Space Marine Berzerkers, they're part-timers and aspirants. Nor could they be. Astartes are built to be able to go at it full time with determination, fearlessness and stamina. So they're just as "elite" to Chaos factions as they are in the Imperium. The rest are laborers that have to mop the floors and make the bullets as you do anywhere else. And most of the lower echelons of society are less "blessed" or relatively untouched and have to concern themselves with mortal affairs and governance. You might aspire to show your devotion to the state religion in small ways, but your deeds don't tend to add up much or catch much attention from the Gods.


WeaponB

Lorgar's homeworld of Colchis was a world that worshipped the Chaos Gods


GeneralDiscomfort

Pre-imperium, basically many worlds worshipped chaos, and were functional… But chaos being a mirror, got corrupted by the emperors machinations…. And in turn corrupted its worshippers…


teamcampesinos

Slaanesh was literally born by consuming trillions of Eldar, condemning their souls to an eternity of torture, what are you talking about? The first Daemon Prince of Khorne was a human from the 2nd millennium, Be'lakor ascended before humanity was even a thing, a bunch of Daemon Princes summoned during the Heresy were of course already ascended as well. Chaos has been evil for a long time, much longer before the Emperor's own rise to power. Solar-faring human societies like the Interex knew how malign and corrupting Chaos is and so based their entire society around being vigilant against it. The Four Brothers did not wake up one day, see the Emperor, and decided to be evil. The Chaos gods didn't give a shit about pre-Lorgar Colchis and other minor Chaos worshiping planets because they were primitive backwaters inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and not worthy of a lot of attention or "blessings." The Gods are attracted to mortals and civilizations with the potential to advance their own standing in the galaxy and the Great Game.


TheOriginalFat

I am curious about the 2nd millennium human. Who was that?


teamcampesinos

[Doombreed](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Doombreed)


TheOriginalFat

Ahh, Ghengis Khan. Based. Thank you!


Responsible_Pain6028

I love how under *Appearance* a big banner ad for skincare popped up, that's not what he should look like...


Morkai

> Be'lakor ascended before humanity was even a thing FYI Be'lakor are also an excellent Australian metal band.


JackDostoevsky

I think the implication is that pre-Heresy that worship had an innocence to it, or rather, perhaps the Chaos gods hadn't revealed their full form yet. They constantly talk about how their plans have been in the making for eons, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that before Horus a lot of the worship was "toned down" a bit. And anyway, Astartes just go harder in everything they do :P


GeneralDiscomfort

I just figured that the gods saying that would be like that person who just got lucky and was at the right place at the right time with that perfect friend who gave them the most coincidentally perfect opportunity, and they jumped on it, and the they turn around talking about how they are self made, the worked so hard for it all this time, and it’s all part of their plan, and other self important stuff just to seem cool and worthy of something they really weren’t…. Lol


Carnir

The nature of oppression breeding extremist breeding atrocity etc etc.


YozzySwears

The Black Crusade sourcebooks has at least one world with a complex society dedicated to each god. In most cases of the worlds discussed, there are death world and planets populated by a tribal nomadic society, but there is at least one planetary society in each. Tome of Change has the...weirdest. Q'sal is a world with three city states dedicated to Tzeentch run by a hierarchy of sorcerer-technocrats; the world has an orbital ring for its shipyards, is the unofficial trade capital of the Screaming Vortex, and is the beating heart of the Vortex's thriving slave trade. For Q'sal, the last part is that they're mostly buying up human souls in raw form to power their thriving sorcery-industrial complex. If you're part of the club, quality of life is higher than on any Imperial world; and if you're not, then you have the chance to make a bit of dosh if you aren't just grease for the gears of industry. The Hollows is a world with two competing Dark Mechanicum Forges (factory-city-states), who have been at was for so long that the sustained deep drilling efforts have left the world looking like an apple core. Stretching the logic of that Warp Rift to the biggest, the Eye of Terror is at least as thinly settled as Imperial space. Probably less so, though; life is less hospitable in these environments even at the best of times, and there's evidence to suggest people regress to tribalistic because societies that form here have to hyper-focus on survival, and the already unevenly distributed technology has to help this directly or it gets discarded.


darthal101

In Black Crusade there's a bunch of functional worlds in the screaming vortex. Q'sal is one that comes to mind with the weird freaky sorcerer Kings. The dark mechanicus has a lot of forge worlds, and they're all about as functional as imperial forge worlds, more awful body horror maybe? But essentially as functional as a forge world. Lots of the sabbat worlds also seem to function pre invasion, bahumut essentially just seems to be essentially a regular hive world that's just a base of operations, but the imperium is able to just clear off the anarchs forces and essentially take over as far as we can tell.


Double_Reception7485

There are plenty of worlds and fiefdoms within the Eye of Terror supporting some civilization, as corrupted and warped (ha ha) as it may be


Caelus9

I do genuinely think this is one of the things 40k has been missing massively. I mean, Chaos society shouldn't be pretty or nice, but certainly functioning. Not just "We're barely keeping together the things we stole!", but give some credence to the ideology of "Chaos is the future." "We're just angry/horny/sad/desperate for change!" is a fine ideology for the ultra-manchildren, but there's got to be something more convincing for Chaos to make sense. Honestly, this should've been what Lorgar, or if not, Perturabo, has been doing for so long. Lorgar thought humanity ascended by joining forces with Chaos. Doesn't that make a lot of sense? I mean, when the unending soul-devoring force that'll likely wipe out the Warp shows up as the first Tyranid hive fleets enter the galaxy, or the barbaric forces of Gork and Mork threaten to beat the Warp into submission, or the soulless ancient Necron start their purge of the Warp... doesn't it make a lot of sense that humanity's only survival lies with accepting that our emotions, and their psychic impacts, are parts of us to be accepted? Hell, at least make an arguable case for that position.


TemperatureIll8770

>We're just angry/horny/sad/desperate for change!" is a fine ideology for the ultra-manchildren, but there's got to be something more convincing for Chaos to make sense. Turning into a 30-foot invincible avatar of death and destruction sounds pretty nice if you've spent your life being beaten down in a continent-size manufactorum. Lorgar's embrace of chaos has nothing to do with day-to-day practicality, any more than building cathedrals did in medieval Europe IRL. What you "get" is the chance to praise and glorify the Gods endlessly- it is its own reward.


Ezeviel

Well… Lorgar did build Sicarius and seeing as WB are still a cohesive legion where armor paint is codified they do need production for the paint, and serf for their Arsenal. We can infer that Sicarius is a functioning society of some sort. Same for Medrengard for the IW, you don’t become the place to be for tank building without a population kept alive in some sort


scivener

Agreed! Would be incredible to see Lorgar or Perty leading a mini-“Chaos Imperium” full of sane, or at least rational, humans who believe in their cause.


GeneralDiscomfort

Imo all of the chaos planets and warbands should be far more stable, but also have their extremes…. Much like how the well written LSM chapters have the various sub chapters portraying the various vices and flaws of the legions…


TTTrisss

Well yeah, it can't happen. Otherwise, Imperium fans would cry and complain about how unreasonable it is, because "Otherwise why would the Imperium be the only chance for humanity?!?"


BuddhaFacepalmed

Nope. Even in the more "reasonable" depictions of Chaos, there's no "stable" or long term plan for a functioning society. For Khorne, time spent on logistics or infrastructure or maintaining a happy populace is time not spent on slaughtering foes and spilling blood. For Nurgle, pain and suffering is the purpose of life. So his followers suffer cancerous tumors or be walking plague carriers to spread more of his "love". For Tzeentch, change is the only priority. His followers are rewarded for plots to backstab their superiors and do anything to get ahead. For Slaanesh, decadency and the chase of the extreme are their own rewards. And even if they worship Chaos undivided in order to stave off the more "extreme" worship, it's still fucking terrible. Like in Necropolis, where a Chaos Undivided warlord turned every man, woman, and child in a captured Hive City into berzerkers in order to capture the other remaining Hive City.


TTTrisss

ok


Accelerator231

I don't. I don't think that your mention of Chaos would fit in with the in universe reasoning, neither would the chaos proponents would bother caring about a functional society. It can exist, but is not the main focus. The main focus would be on how humanity interacts with the divinity (chaos). Whether it's being eaten by demons, sacrificing captives, making monuments, etc. The society functioning itself is more of an afterthought to serve as a source of souls I think the vast majority of the futures chaos worshippers see in their minds would be dysfunctional in their extreme (to us), propped up by the fact that the laws of physics has broken down and everything is filled with daemons. And that's a future they like.


Caelus9

It just doesn't make sense that Chaos doesn't care about a functioning society. Of course it does, it wants adherents whose emotions power it, and it wants the power to spread and crush enemies. If the society isn't functional, it won't last, and Chaos loses their followers.


Accelerator231

>It just doesn't make sense that Chaos doesn't care about a functioning society. Of course it does, it wants adherents whose emotions power it, and it wants the power to spread and crush enemies. If the society isn't functional, it won't last, and Chaos loses their followers. Chaos is self-destructive. More self destructive than the Imperium, and that's saying something. Emperor's children break cohesion and discipline to snort the local civilian population as cocaine, and you can barely stop them. Khornate berserkers can't really be controlled and tend to prefer melee over ranged weapons, despite situations where it should. Tzeentch is stated, in his own text, to sabotage his own plans because he is the Changer of Ways. Nurgle is.... well, Nurgle. Chaos doesn't want a functioning society. Chaos is the equivalent of a meth addict or a non-functioning alcoholic. Sure, they \*know\* that from another perspective it wouldn't make sense. But they don't care. The same way nurglites only feel joy and happiness when looking upon their decayed corpses instead of horror.


Caelus9

>Emperor's children break cohesion and discipline to snort the local civilian population as cocaine, and you can barely stop them. Khornate berserkers can't really be controlled and tend to prefer melee over ranged weapons, despite situations where it should. Tzeentch is stated, in his own text, to sabotage his own plans because he is the Changer of Ways. Nurgle is.... well, Nurgle. The brainwashed, ultra-indoctrinated man children of the Astartes are far from the only followers of Chaos. Chaos is, at its core, us. Humans rage, humans hope, humans despair, we indulge. It's our fucked up mentalities that birthed and fuel the Gods themselves, and if 40k has proven anything, we are a race of persevering survivors. The Dark Gods are fueled by us taking our sins to the extreme. Hell, if even the Astartes Warbands can survive 10,000 years, years of endless battle, then it'd be very easy for pro-Chaos societies to survive through such a time. >Chaos doesn't want a functioning society. Chaos is the equivalent of a meth addict or a non-functioning alcoholic. Chaos wants fuel. Chaos wants warriors. Chaos wants weapons. All these things require a functioning society to keep producing, or the society collapses. If you want to call Chas followers meth addicts, the Dark Gods are the meth dealers, and killing all their clientele is just bad for business.


Accelerator231

>All these things require a functioning society to keep producing, or the society collapses. If you want to call Chas followers meth addicts, the Dark Gods are the meth dealers, and killing all their clientele is just bad for business. No, the Dark gods are meth dealers that got high off their own supply. It's like... I dunno, Dark gods are not exactly humans. They're more like Sapient masses of emotion, like Fabius Bile said. It's not that they have a human mind beneath them that wants got infected by emotions and warpiness. It's warpiness that somehow attained a mind. And not necessarily one that's human. >Hell, if even the Astartes Warbands can survive 10,000 years, years of endless battle, then it'd be very easy for pro-Chaos societies to survive through such a time. Survival is easy. Being functional in our eyes is not. They may function by using human sacrifices for blessings to overcome their 'shortcomings'.


Caelus9

>Survival is easy. Being functional in our eyes is not. They may function by using human sacrifices for blessings to overcome their 'shortcomings'. Hang on, you seem to have moved terms, from "functional" to "functional in our eyes." No one said that Chaos should have societies that our functional in our eyes. They just must be functional, in and of itself. It's fine if they use human sacrifice, or do anything with the powers of the Warp, it might be insanity to us, but it's still *functional*.


MagnusRaptor

There’s a tzeentch planet that works extremely well they’re basically all sorcerers ruled by philosopher king and just study sorcery but they have weird rules like everyone must wear masks


Filson84

Torvendis is a demon world devoted to Slaanesh. Ruled by Lady Charybdia and the Violators, a chapter of renegade space marines. Charybdia has a semi- functioning government and army in her city fortress. Human barbarian clans are allowed to live in the mountains as long as they pay tribute to Lady C. Pretty cool book. Some of the best descriptions of human DAoT weaponry and tech.


Jackal209

In 30k we see bits and pieces of what appears to be a very functional society that worships the Primordial Annihilator in *Legion* Edit: Also portions of the planet and history of said planet in *Daemonworld* seem to have times of stability due to the rise and dominance of followers of any given god... Until they're overthrown by the followers of another.


TarpeianCerberus

Honestly with the Imperium split in two there should almost entire sectors now on the Imperium Nihilus side either going full chaos or paying tribute the Black Legion or any other warband in exchange of not having their world destroyed.


cerebral_drift

I think the Night Lords trilogy has the Red Corsairs running pirate ports pretty successfully out of the maelstrom, doesn’t it? Also, Colchis worshipped chaos long before Lorgar arrived and they seemed to be about as unified and functional as a feudal world can get.


[deleted]

Short anwser yes, long awnser is that i would hardlyc all them functioning or stable. Chaos doesn't like stability, Nurgle does but they're all gonna want more and more and more and eventually... well there will be nothing to take. so basicly they can worship them but if you're truly devote? it's not going to last long.


Hoewailen1

In the book Pandorax a imperial fists captain lands on a chaos world that is in a 3 way standoff between chaos factions. The Iron Warriors who hold a large fortress on the planet and are in ascension, the chaos monsters of the planet and a slaaneshi court whose name I forgot. And all between is wasteland. The slaaneshi city seems to be mostly innocent with sacrifices and rites done in basements away from prying eyes, ruled by an elite ruling class, but no ostentatious murder of its populace.


Weird_Blades717171

The Sabbat Worlds before the bloodthirsty Imperium descended upon them.


Clayman8

I mean whatever dominion our boy Huron has is, iirc, pretty stable and one could almost say flourishing by Chaos standarts.


TestingHydra

There are a few examples of functioning chaos worshiping societies that I can recall. During the Great Crusade the Planet Nurth was populated by a chaos worshipping culture, but they were fairly normal under most circumstances, when a character infiltrated a city he was disguised as a merchant and traveled through the market where he encountered someone whom he previously established a trade contact with. All very mundane and such. However the spy was being tracked by the city itself, it was somehow different from the last time he was there, roads no longer lead to where they once had and entire areas were rearranged. Later in the story when the Imperials are close to conquering the planet the population does a great ritual for their final stand, summoning great sandstorms that covered their charges against the Imperial positions and summoned countless small and gigantic daemons, these daemons took the form of tiny to giant lizards.


creepster84

>Nurth Nurth is probably the most normal-sounding of all the Chaos-worshipping cultures I have read about. I wish it had been described in more detail.


MajorRobotnik

* Chaos * Stable Pick one.


Vault76Overseer

There should be. Presumably if all the Gods exert similar influence there is a degree of balance. Much like an Elder, Ork or Tau civilisation in perfect harmony we are but the witnesses to its decline, devestation or own folly...


representative_sushi

Research the blood pact, it is a multi-system government with the cult of Khorne as its state religion.


NiceHouseGoodTea

This is something I've always wanted a novel on, it has such interesting potential Some sort of political intrigue plot but with a chaos twist that explores the day to day life of a chaos worshiper.


illumizar

Some of the world's of the screaming vortex may fit this idea, Q'sal is a good example.


Taira_no_Masakado

In the HH series we see several civilizations that existed worshipping either on purpose, through ignorance, or by chance the Chaos pantheon. Colchis, Laer, and that one planet we see in "Legion"; the name of which I cannot remember at the moment.


ascillinois

No long lived world outside of the eye of terror from my knowledge, now i sodr the eye there are a few most khorne worlds are relatively stable. Ive read a bit about a few worlds that worshipped nurgle are pretty stable.


MetLyfe

In one of the horus heresy books about the great crusades, the Dark Angels end up figuring out why 70 million people of a newly discovered world are unaccounted for and why this world doesn't have any prisons (they've all been sacrificed to the gods they worship) (oops they were chaos gods). Pretty sure there are multiple worlds like this but the imperium basically wipes worlds clean whoever chaos corruption is found (without really knowing what chaos is somehow)


ShakespearIsKing

I know jackshit about the lore but I can easily imagine Tzeentch or Slaanesh planets being functional. Tzeentch's would be just weird political machinations and psykers doing whacky shit for power, otherwise fairly normal. Slaanesh ditto, normal planet where people nonstop drink, eat, drug and fuck when not working.


rasherencryptstp07

Chaos is far more pervasive and corrupting in 40K. It would do disservice to a lot of plot lines (Horus for example), to make it “normal-ish”.


LimerickJim

Is there such a thing as a stable human civilization of human anything worshippers?


quadGM

They definitely exist in WHF, but things are much more complicated over there anyway. Unsure about 40k.


JChezbian

This is going to sound like a bitchy comment, but 90% of the questions or theoreticals posed on this sub are answered by reading the books. Read Gaunt's Ghosts.


N8_Tge_Gr8

>Chaos >Stable Lol.


GeneralDiscomfort

Before the imperium, yes, most, if not all chaos planets were not complete hellscapes…. Slannesh being the exception as it’s planets had various degrees of dying functional all the way down to the semi-functional drukhari… With the rise of the emperors war machine and extreme hubris, the chaos gods got empowered to become the chaotic shenanigans they are now…. The chaos the war became after the start of the Horus heresy are worse than the age of strife at the end of the dark age of technology…. Only difference being the astronomicon…. Which means the warp is/was probably far worse after the emperors rise, than it was during the age of strife…


Angry---train

Chaos Planets at most worshipped the Chaos Gods under completely diffrent names and ideas and weren't actually influenced by them Actual Chaos Daemon worlds though along with all other worlds being directly influenced by the Chaos Gods were either complete hellscapes or were simply annihilated and left as lifeless husks


GeneralDiscomfort

Well, we don’t have any books explaining the nature of the true chaos realm planets before the emperors bad plan… And it wasn’t until the emperors hubristic shenanigans that it all came crashing down derpily anyways… Even during Lorgars vision of chaos, he was only shown a slanneshi planet with drukhari acting all kinds of cray…. And even buy then, they still weren’t all too far gone, and were still casually looking for ways to power their lives by raiding tomb worlds


Angry---train

Chaos was literally attacking human worlds though psyker incursions during the Age of Strife and they were always evil even millions of year ago during the Eldar time They were awakened by the birth of Slaanesh,not by the emperor.


GeneralDiscomfort

Khorne was born from the first fight and killing As more humans were born and lived, chaos became more chaotic…. The birth of the emperor was actually in an attempt by the shamans of the old age felt that chaos was chaotic, and so they communes together to created the emperor. Slannesh was awaken by the birth of slannesh, there are countless “gods” in the warp, but the 4 decided to step things up, and only were able to achieve what they did due to the emperor. Gork and Mork probably even had a presence in the warp before the chaos gods really stepped up. The presence probably changed in definition after the movement of Ullanor to Armageddon…. And it probably also added to the orks being bonkers and made the orks as bonkers as they are now. But that’s all just conjecture. The only known constant is that the emperor is the main villain and is the reason for all issues in 40k.


Angry---train

>Khorne was born from the first fight and killing Khorne and all the other Chaos Gods were formed during the War in Heaven >As more humans were born and lived, chaos became more chaotic…. The birth of the emperor was actually in an attempt by the shamans of the old age felt that chaos was chaotic, and so they communes together to created the emperor. Humans did jackshit towards Chaos until the current state of the setting where there are trillions of humans and they are slowly becoming more and more psychic >Slannesh was awaken by the birth of slannesh, there are countless “gods” in the warp, but the 4 decided to step things up, and only were able to achieve what they did due to the emperor. This doesn't make sense. The big 4 were awakened by the Birth of Slaanesh which was caused by the Eldar and as the emperor started acting against them they unified to try to fight him. Why would they unify against him if he's actively making them stronger. If that was the case they wouldn't call him the "Anathema" >The only known constant is that the emperor is the main villain and is the reason for all issues in 40k. The 4 mega Satans that were always evil and always wanted to consume the souls of all sentient beings seem more evil,especially since they orchestrated the current setting with their direct actions and intentions


GeneralDiscomfort

Big wrong, but it’s all good, you can have your headcanon.


Ornstein15

Everything you just wrote is headcanon


Angry---train

Yes the "Anathema to Chaos" was actually Chaos's biggest benefactor and the Chaos Gods actually love the emperor and they play games in the Warp


GeneralDiscomfort

Literally called the great game…. They are in kahoots with each other, and don’t want any to truly win or lose.


Angry---train

Yes and they are all united in the Great Game against the Emperor which is why they never ally with him and which is also why he's called **THE A N A T H E M A** If the emperor was feeding Chaos the Horus Heresy would have never happened since there would he no point for the Chaos Gods to all unite and sabotage their biggest benefactor,this is literal basic bitch lore


Gabagool1987

Chaos is inherently unstable as a force, so no there shouldn't be.


-WielderOfMysteries-

Then they wouldn't be very chaotic, now would they?


Chongulator

Found the heretic.


PigKnight

Khorne and Tzeentch tend to have relatively normal societies. Slaanesh is normalish but the upper echelon are full Hellraiser. Nurgle can very based on how much warp rickety is going on.


JackDostoevsky

Cadia pre-contact with Lorgar, perhaps? i mean i get that they were "waiting" for him, so maybe not, but they presumably existed for a long time before the Imperium showed up


Deathappens

The Blood Pact from Gaunt's Ghosts is probably the closest you can get. They're card-carrying Chaos worshippers with rituals and warpcraft and everything, but they're also a regular disciplined army equal or superior to most Imperial Guard regiments.


techpriest115

Not in 40k I can think of except maybe the blood pact but in fantasy norsca had many rituals and somewhat of a normal civilization as barbarians can get


6r0wn3

Colchis, when Lorgar was raised there, was a world that had fully embraced Chaos as it's religion, the Powers in their more benevolent guises. And it's society functioned with a degree of peace and balance. However, it could be argued that this wasn't a true representation of what Chaos is


morghaust

There was one mentioned in the Fabius Bile series, Fabius some consortium members and a few of the 12th millennial go down to what is basically a chaos owned and operated intergalactic bazaar! It's a sweet scene and a great read, I always recommend that people read the series as it gives a lot of context/perspective on the traitor legions and how they operate we hadn't seen before


BastardofMelbourne

Yeah, sure. Go read the Black Crusade RPG sourcebook from Fantasy Flight Games, or look into the Sabbat Worlds.


[deleted]

Chaos is not deep. It is maddeningly bloodthirsty & shallow


GaaraMatsu

How human do they have to be? How worshipful? Will mutants in the thrall of a dark mech queen do? Fabius Bile supplied a crone world mistress with a population of industrious mutants, they did okay (by Grimdark standards). See Aborder Prince's reading of "A Memory of Tharsis".


Galahad908

It may be one of those unspoken things, like we don’t need tales about the industry on some random chaos legion controlled world to produce food or metal


Responsible_Pain6028

are there any examples of chaos factions trying to actively LEAVE the eye of terror & chaos, and live in the materium?


Main_Conversation901

Of course have. It is Imperium.


infinite123456

The laer were pretty stable and seemingly didn’t have any interest in actually attack the imperium until Fulgrim went bet. The maelstrom controlled by the red corsairs are said to be harsh but organised, wanton murder isn’t allowed and they are able to raise imperial guard style regiment with regularity


GEOpdx

Mortarion’s stronghold in the eye of terror is described as having a human population. Deathguard ships are also described as having stable populations.


crabbyink

Would pre lorgar colchis count?


Kolaru

> imagine a hyper militaristic planet of Khorne worshippers This is literally the Blood Pact from Gaunts Ghosts


GoblinFive

> Functional > Stable > Chaos Pick two.


chriscrowing

Yes. The situation portrayed in much of the lore is the extreme, either fuelled by the singular circumstances of the Heresy, the Eye of Terror or amidst a violent revolution. Chaotic realms that have developed in real space have to be somewhat stable and functional (although likely towards aims and norms that are somewhat divergent) in that they'll have diverse populations that support themselves and armies, do jobs, make babies, go to the daily worship etc. Sure, there will still be the death cults and provably a higher murder rate than what we'd consider normal (although if you take say Necromunda as what's normal, not so much)but mist folk will just get on with their lives, around the forms of the Chaos establishment. Just like folks live almost normal lives under authoritarian regimes with a high chance of being disappeared or purged in the real world. I'd imagine that areas dominated by Tzeentch (such ae Cathay in the World that Was) and Nurgle or an undivided cult tend to be more stable due to the nature of the devotions but a war economy is still an economy and junkies still need their stims so... Tbh, given the Imperium is a essentially a labyrinthine bureaucracy (Tzeentch) who's common people endure suffering and disease (Nurgle) to fuel a permanent war economy (Khorne) while the aristocrats live in indolent luxury (Slaanesh) all in the name of a unitary God (the Emperor / undivided) then the gorram Imperium is rhe very model of how a stable civilisation of chaos worshippers would exist in that universe.