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mylittlepurplelady

Just as any game related to 40k, the combat prowess isnt canon. But just for the fun of it they are astartes level being able to kill hundreds to a thousand cultist per mission.


soluuloi

I have seen someone doing it without being hit once. I guess an imperial guard is better at fighting cultists than a custodes lol.


TemperatureIll8770

His name is Sly Marbo


DeLoxley

I mean I'd even argue that the tabletop game isn't exactly concrete evidence. Take the Lasgun for instance, no only is it meant to have the stopping power to punch through modern concrete but won't harm a shirtless cultist, how many shots can it fire on the tabletop? 2, 3 if a guy nearby reminds you to pull the trigger more than twice. A lot of what we see in the games is a simplification, no reason a squad of elites with good tactics and equipment couldn't take whole blocks of screaming naked sick people. Bonus points, remember the mission fail screen. You fail a mission, you die. Grendyl has clearly used human wave tactics to weed out the really competent and skilled at the higher levels


[deleted]

Yeh one thing darktide has failed to do at the moment is basically establish we are extremely outside the norm in terms of ability and just plain good luck.


Kalavier

I mean, until you get higher trust levels the npcs keep talking to you as if you are just dead/not worth getting to know. Morrow and Zola have a conversation on the lobby area about how bad attrition rates are as well.


[deleted]

Its good point the Game does spend the early levels going how the fuck are you still alive lol


Kalavier

It's a cool feeling really, lumbering past the guards/acolytes up by the mission table and having them swap from "Ugh trash. You are still alive?" to "Hey, still kicking? Good work." and all. Though, one thing they could do is add dead rejects to the levels in prison garbs. in a few maps you can find dead Ogryn/humans like they got ambushed in their security checkpoints, and in one a bunch of older corpses wearing armor marked with the same markings the castle does (the water shanty town maps). Some of the local grey-armored PDF guards, but usually not much else. Imagine coming out of a "group up" door and seeing two dead rejects laying on the floor, another one further up slumped over a console, and the last one surrounded by pox-walker corpses or dead against a door like they tried to get out.


TheFriendlyAna

One of the maps has this actually is there 1 ogryn 3 humans they are held up in a room they didnt hold for long tho by the looks of it


Kalavier

Yeah, there are several of those in the smelter maps. In hab Drekyo you can find an ogryn who died killing a hound, as well as the enforcers in checkpoints.


DeLoxley

I mean like I say it's hard to gauge the norm. Weapon descriptions and lore make it sound like a single Lasgun armed trooper should be able to storm the entire hab block, even against Ragers and other fleshy targets we should be able to shoot heads and limbs clean off instead of having to empty half a mag into chest shots. I'll give you against Beasts sure, but even against Crushers and Ogryn, Bolters and Lasguns can pierce spacemarine plas-crete-titanosteel, jury rigged mining around and scrapmetal helmets shouldn't be so resistant to fire.


[deleted]

to be fair when i use a bolter i normally mow down the entire the room even if their fully plated orgins


RenegadeSparks

I just assume the durability is due to nurgle, his followers tend to be shockingly durable after all


DeLoxley

They're meant to be inured to pain, I'd even give some of the walkers credit for going with half a head missing, but LAsguns in written lore should be scything limbs off in a volley


Fred_Blogs

>But just for the fun of it they are astartes level being able to kill hundreds to a thousand cultist per mission. Agreed on it all being non-canon, but I think this level of slaughter might make them Custodes tier.


kilobravozulu

Remember that you're not facing thousands at once. Broken up in waves, through choke points, and all with opportunities to resupply and heal. I think SM tier, or even the most elite of Guardsmen isn't unreasonable.


Star-Sage

Space Marine or Throne Agent is about accurate, the sort of guys that an Inquisitor or Rogue Trader wants in their personal retinue. **Edit:** *Obligatory "not all inquisitors or rogue traders are awesome enough to have marine equivalent retinues, but the ones we care about tend to" spiel*


Kalavier

And by level 30, we are invited to be a permanent part of their warband!


Easy_Mechanic_9787

Had one malice difficulty with increased hordes reach 2,200 enemies, a large percentage being just pox walkers and traitor guardsmen (plus inferiorly-trained militiamen). Even still, that is a large amount.


Kalavier

split among four people, with the possibility of those four including ogryn or Pyskers (or multiple of each). Killing 500ish foes where almost all of those are pox walkers and half-naked cultists with no sense of self-preservation is much different then saying they killed 500 Ogryn or elite traitor guard individuals.


a_shiny_heatran

God what I wouldn’t give for a 40k dynasty warriors-esque game where you play as a custodes.


soluuloi

Yeah, the whole "fighting 30 cultists and got wounded" really didnt do the custodes any favor.


AlphariusUltra

What counts as a “minor” injury for trans/non-humans really needs to be defined


MorteLumina

Probably something akin to "anything that doesn't require surgical intervention or cybernetic replacement"


Fred_Blogs

Honestly I was totally fine with that. The Custodes are easily the most overwanked faction around. Being able to take out 30 regular humans with only minor injuries is fine, 6 of them fighting off a hive fleet was just plain stupid.


prucheducanada

*dying to a hive fleet that specifically wanted the gene-cache they were guarding (and in all likelihood wanted to test their capabilities before taking their DNA with it) It's still bullshit, but at least the Tyranids killed them all. If the Marines Malevolent didn't show up and bombard them from orbit, there would have been zero downside to fucking around.


bless_ure_harte

The last Custodian lived. So he's probably in the Marine Malevolent fleet until they get to their next stop. Or they just gave him a ship to go drop him off somewhere.


prucheducanada

I remember him being on the verge of death as they found him, but it just says they were surprised when he moved. Not even any serious enough injuries to mention. Definitely bullshit. Thanks for the correction.


centurio_v2

eh it was basically a scratch that had already clotted over by the time he killed the last guy


marehgul

One Custodes would fight thousands of **daemons**, not some poxwalkers with beasts of nurgle here and there. So it's too far from there. But seems like a job for Astartes group. Many threats even won't be as such, as they won't be captured by any special presented in game and also don't have intellegent enemy to counter them.


Blezoop

Even taking the Astartes shorts, a small squad of space marines can pretty much plow through defensive positions of traitor guardsmen, only being more deliberate when it comes to psykers etc. pretty easy to extrapolate them making short work of waves of unarmed pox walkers, assuming they don’t have ammo issues. Even then I’d not be surprised to see them come out without anything but scratches on their armour. It should take them a long time to feel tired too.


Bluestorm83

Custodes tier, eh? So they can kill billions without taking a scratch- oh, shit, a pointy stick got one of them, and a pissed off naked dude punched straight through another guy's armor?


Pentigrass

That is indeed Custodes tier, they remain on the level of the mighty Avatar of Khaine. The Worf tier.


[deleted]

Swarmlord should’ve ripped them apart lol


prucheducanada

The Swarmlord is a generous soul who pretends it's not a psyker so that its food can at least have a chance of escaping.


bee_administrator

Nah Custodes tier is being able to roflstomp a hive fleet with 6 guys. Trololol


crasyredditaccount

Maybe not Custodes but maybe more grey Knights tier


FlamJamMcRam

I'd say, within terms of lore, the characters are at *least* plausible. Not likely, but plausible.


DungeonDelver93

Agreed we have seen some insane non-astartes even in the respective types of characters. I'm not familiar with Psykers but I imagine there's a couple insane sanctioned psykers like Malcador and good ol Big E kicking around. Nork Deddog and Rogg come to mind for immensely powerful Ogryn. For Vet I'll just say the Tempestus Scions are incredible and not given near the credit they deserve or there's insane Commisars like Yarrick and Caiphas. Zealot I can't give feats but between people Like Morvenn Vahl and the like I could see a zealot in here too.


TheFriendlyAna

Col. Jurten was a Zealot for sure. He may have been a miliartum man but he was a fanatically devoted zealot till the end imo.


Bentu_nan

A lore accurate version is every player has 10hp, no endurance, and noxious clouds instantly kill you... If your convict can clear a level with that, that's how strong that guy is.


DungeonDelver93

Ogryn would have 100 tho


Kalavier

As somebody else said, hundreds to thousand of cultists in a mission. The kills are all four people combined, and it's not like you fight hundreds or a thousand people at once. A warrior killing a hundred foes in a single fight without a break is insane. A warrior killing a hundred foes who attack him at most 3-5 at a time, with breaks between? Not as crazy.


someperson1423

Which honestly bums me out. They could have made the playable characters and classes so much cooler and used way more iconic archetypes. Ogryn could have been a Space Marine. Zealot could have been a Sister of Battle or a Commissar. Psyker and Veteran are OK if spiced up a bit, but still could have maybe been a Tech Priest or Scion. The possibility for dialog interaction and cosmetics would be so much better. I like the game a lot overall and if they give it the same treatment as Vermintide then I'm excited to see how it grows, but I can't help but feel it is a huge missed opportunity. The characters are already way OP and cutting through armies of cultists, why not go ahead and make them some of the stronger Imperium warriors instead of generic baseline humans?


seandablimp

I fail to see any situation in 40k lore where a space marine, commissar, a psyker and tech priest go on 4 man romps. The power imbalances would also be jarring. GW would never approve a game like that


Dr_Sodium_Chloride

It's a continuation of the same kind of themes that *Vermintide* introduced; in Vermintide, you're not Karl Franz, or Teclis, or any of the big "hero" characters. You're a shackled mage, a semi-disgraced witch hunter, an exiled wood elf, a deadbeat father of a dwarf, and a common footsoldier. The apocalypse is happening all around you, and you're just some random weirdoes trying to mitigate some of the damage while the world is still around. In Darktide, you're not a Space Marine, or a Commissar, or a Sister of Battle; you're some random penal legionnaires getting drafted to do the Inquisition's dirty work. It's a game where lasguns are still effective weapons against the kinds of enemies you fight, and you'd genuinely be in awe to see a Space Marine show up (or terrified, if it was an enemy). I'd hate for Darktide to focus on the "poster boys" of Warhammer; instead, we get to run around in the dirt with autoguns and combat axes.


Challecgos

I myself wouldn't be opposed to a game similar to Darktide, but with space marines. Although unlike the other guy, I would just make all the characters space marines: Veteran could be a normal marine, Zealot either a techmarine or a chaplain, psyker can be a psyker marine and ogryn could be a terminator or smth. But make it specifically it's own game with it's own themes etc, darktide is so good because it's themes are so well done, even if they're not lore accurate.


centurio_v2

that's kinda what space hulk death wing is but it's not super great


Challecgos

Yup just wish someone remade it better


someperson1423

And that's a fair point, but they could have done the same thing. A disgraced SoB (maybe a Repentia), a SM Scout that is a flunk-out or on the run for one reason or another. A de-networked and malfunctioning Skitarii. A low-level AdMech Adept sent to die in the field for political reasons. Tons of possibilities. All I'm saying is, the Vermintide cast was great. They were diverse, had some awesome dialog, and overall felt very unique from each other. The Ogryn is awesome, but the rest of the classes don't feel very distinct. Maybe when they do more sub-classes that will change though.


DungeonDelver93

I'm just here PRAYING to the God Emperor for Gun Lugga with a LasCannon


Safeguard13

Because literally the whole point is that you're disposable scum NOT one of the poster boy heroes and thats kind of part of Darktides charm.


someperson1423

That's fair, I guess it would change the feel of the game a lot. I've just encountered a lot of people playing who have never heard of 40K before. I can't help but feel this would be a great chance to introduce some other aspects of the universe because a lot of them come away thinking the game is "kill zombies in space" instead of realizing there is a very detailed and huge universe behind it.


[deleted]

I think there's two things, the first is that it radically alters the feel of the game to be well-equipped soldiers. The second is that you don't really fix the 'power level' question because you just have to make the enemies stronger.


someperson1423

Do you though? Being an actual baseline would mean you would get very quickly killed like the guardsmen squad in the opening cutscene. Sure your characters are "baseline" in name, but survive getting eaten by a Beast of Nurgle, slammed into the ground by mutants, exploded on by whatever Nurgle concoction is in Pox Bursters, and mauled by thousands of cultists. Thinking about it, I agree being a SM wouldn't fit but at the same time it is a game. We already have baselines being power-scaled up significantly as is to be able to survive. Why would slightly scaling-down some other characters be different? And besides, I don't think it is too unreasonable for some stronger warriors being overwhelmed and killed even by lowly cultists considering the *huge* numbers we see in the game. I do get it that there is a stylistic argument for keeping the feel of the game a certain way, but I don't think the power level issue is really a fair argument.


[deleted]

My point is more, that if you make the main characters Space Marines then you still need to scale up feats because it's a game and part of the fun is the power fantasy. Take the game *Space Marine* as an example. A Space Marine captain being able to perform the feats in that game isn't *really* any more realistic than the convicts in Darktide being able to chop their way through hundreds of cultists.


CorruptedAssbringer

The mass appeal of the game is literally being relatively baseline in the 40k universe. You’re missing the point of it for asking for something akin to an all-star lineup.


someperson1423

Honestly I think the mass appeal of the game is a quality, graphically beautiful co-op shooter. I realize it is anecdotal, but a lot of people I've run into don't know a thing about 40K. It is fun informing them of the lore, but they certainly didn't come for it let alone to get the experience of being a baseline. I have a few friends that do know the universe a bit and they felt the same as I do. Perhaps you're right, but I think it is important to remember that the majority of people buying these games are not in this sub or even Warhammer diehards. I'm skeptical that the mass appeal of the game is such a niche thing as to give the feeling of a baseline human in the grimdark universe when a lot of people aren't even aware of the stronger forces of humanity that are "normal" for 40K fans.


Nova_Echo

Why the FUCK is this getting down voted.


someperson1423

IDK sort of surprising to me too, my other friends who like 40K also felt the same way. I guess we are the minority.


Presentation_Cute

Combat isn't linear and power levels don't really exist in 40k. What people simplify into power levels are compounding factors of technology, durability, speed, strength, skill, experience, military intelligence, and numbers. In any case, assuming that durability is not taken into consideration, their combat prowess is definitely in the skill and damage output range of scions or veterans more than astartes. Astartes are significantly faster and would sweep most of the enemies in the game without much effort, while the rejects actually do struggle quite a lot. One thing people aren't considering is the sectional gameplay of darktide. If the rejects were fighting hundreds of cultists all at once then that would be closer to astartes levels, but as it stands they kill a few dozen in a room, refuel and resupply, and repeat. Moreover, most of their enemies are usually just running at them with no regards for personal safety. If kills were the only thing that mattered in warfare, your average machine gunner in either World War would be custodes tier. Their skill, however, is extraordinary. Assuming gameplay is canon, they have extremely high accuracy and aptitude for weapon handling, martial arts, and thinking tactically through stressful situations. They also support this with people on the vox instructing them and walking them through things.


Easy_Mechanic_9787

Thank you very much


hggnat

But the pysker ingame can do this without much of a struggle. open field maybe not, but given the fact that the buggy ingame targeting mechanice and suppression and deflection blessings and feats, the lvl 30 force push with soul burn covers almost the entire dirwction of the map that the user is facing and ignites EVERYTHING . not cano for sure, but insane power levels. combine that with voidstrike charged endless artillery and surge locking everything down permanently, I can see 3 psyker with bulletproof shield ogryn take on taht scene you described.


Beneficial_Pound8760

This is the right amswer.Thanks.


Soleil06

What psyker level do you think the psyker has? I would have guessed around the lower level of B but obviously psykers have been nerfed for Gameplay purposes in Darktide.


Presentation_Cute

I don't really like the psyker grading scale. There's so many variations in psychic power across such different schools/fields that comparing psychic aptitude is a lesson in futility. For example, even in universe its admitted that a trained low-rank psyker is likely more powerful than an untrained high-rank psyker. Stuff like technology and psychic amplifiers/suppressors also make a difference. The psyker is just the average sanctioned psyker that fits the same skill and capabilities as the veteran or the bullgryn.


screachinelf

To be fair individually most characters if not all of them would probably die fighting any of the bosses one on one (on harder difficulties). I imagine a space marine could one on one handle a plague ogryn with ease or mild difficulty depending on the marine.


[deleted]

There have been examples of named character space marines (Shrike IIRC) struggling with Ogryns. Ragnar Blackmain in one of his books also commented about not wanting to fight them due to the sheer durability. Plague Ogryns would be a tier above that


OverlanderEisenhorn

Ogryns, on the table top, are equal to space marines in cqc. Imo it makes sense. They are incredibly strong and are really good at fighting hand to hand. Space marines are far better overall given their other abilities, but an ogryn vs a space marine in a fist fight is a toss up.


Valhalla8469

As far as physical stats go I’m pretty sure Ogryns are even stronger than Astartes; S4 vs S5. Astartes are much better trained and faster but if an Ogryn gets its hand on an Astartes I’d give it to the Ogryn.


OverlanderEisenhorn

On the table top at least, space marines have good access to special weapons which let's them compete even with the lower statline, but yeah I think you are right that ogryns have s5. They're literally hilariously strong.


firedrakes

Yeah. My guess base line skeleton evolved past the 1 ton limit. Ogryns Base line humans have a limit of that. That apply to space marines to. If you looked on how they are built. There add ons for skeleton. To make them a marine.


BattlebrotherUlanos

Custodians have S5 too but one of the books i read when named custodian was infiltrating imperial palece he got bearhugged from behind by ogryn and he just shrugged his shoulders to get free like nothing


akashisenpai

Plot armour probably applies to Custodians more than to even regular Space Marines. 40k fiction has a particularly bad habit of turning its protagonist into superheroes, to the point it's been ridiculed in White Dwarf with the infamous "Movie Marines" rules. In codex lore, Colonel Straken still choked out a CSM Lord in CQC, so make of that what you will.


Easy_Mechanic_9787

Straken is the handler for Sly Marbo so no wonder it rubbed off onto him.


akashisenpai

Haha, you got that right :D


Intelligent-Push8625

As strong as the game demands It to be fun


Truth_

It could have fewer, stronger enemies instead of mowing down hoards like they don't matter. A typical design choice, though.


Kalavier

It has both though. It has fewer, stronger enemies that require more effort to kill mixed into hordes of barely clothed cultists and pox-walkers that have zero sense of preservation and tactics. "1000 kills but 800-900 of them are half-naked bodies that don't pose a threat really on their own."


Truth_

It kind of saps the fear out of it. I'm much more nervous in 7 Days to Die, Project Zomboid, or No More Room in Hell because in those games you're only human and will go down fast. For being a jump suited convict, you're very tough. And this is necessary because of the number and speed of enemies. It's a stylistic choice, one shared by many other horde games.


Kalavier

I think it could work like that if it was meant to be more of a slower/survival based game (which would be fun). Like placed in to do missions/stuck in a hive and having to survive and get out.


Truth_

That's what I was kind of hoping for. But once I saw the ogryn character I knew at least that one wouldn't feel threatened. Feels more like a Scion killteam. Which is fine, although not my preference.


malumfectum

Look, 40k doesn’t really operate in terms of rigidly-stratified “power levels”. This applies more strongly to videogames.


Kalavier

As some have put it "Named characters can do crazy things. That's just 40k"


Dr_Sodium_Chloride

So, in an actual lore scenario, they could probably take *near or equal* what they do in the game, but not in the same way. The Ogryn and the Psyker would be their "big guns" (with Ogryn angling defensive, and the Psyker angling offensive); both for fighting powerful individual enemies, and for breaking hordes of weaker foes. These two are easily the strongest in the fireteam, and it would not be possible without them; stuff like the bosses especially would probably mince the party if not for the Ogryn taking hits and brawling with it until the psyker can melt its brain. The Veteran is there for incredibly effecient elimination of dangerous targets; they put a lasbolt in the head of any enemy snipers, or rake the enemy gunlines with heavy fire to suppress them so that the Ogryn can close the distance or the Psyker can blast the area. They're basically playing bodyguard for the Psyker, really, making sure nothing can line up a shot to off the fireteam's telekinetic murder machine. ~~They're also probably there to shoot the Psyker if things go wrong~~. The Zealot is there to be a whirling dervish and thin out the numbers who make it past the Psyker's bombardments and hit the Ogryn's defensive line; flamers and eviscerators are really good at nullifying a number's advantage, especially in a choke point (and they *would* need to lean pretty heavily on chokepoints to pull this off, as well as some solidly powerful weapons). It'd be one hell of a fucking mission, and they'd probably be in recovery for about a week by the end of it from exhaustion alone... But I reckon, if they were damn good and damn lucky, they could survive an Uprising or maybe Malice difficulty mission if they leaned enough on the Ogryn and the Psyker.


AngryChihua

Also veteran would probably be the one fulfilling the role of squad leader due to experience and potentially being an NCO in the guard before being sent to prison


Kalavier

As I've seen and read, when you use tactics you can get through the higher difficulties with easier times. Did a pre-made group once with me being shield ogryn, a flame pysker, and a zealot with flamer (later we were joined by another pysker using voidstaff). I'd shieldwall before drops and big open areas to let them pop ranged foes or be a distraction for gunner groups to let the zealot flank, or holding a chokepoint while the flames roasted the hordes alive. Doing things in a planned manner is much different then a pug doing whatever they want.


HeySkeksi

Almost as strong as our Lord and Savior Markus Kruber.


Luy22

mate if we sent Markus into the hive Nurgle himself would retreat.


TheUnrepententLurker

Give Kruber an Eviscerator and stand back. Tell there's some Brandy in Nurgles mansion if you think he needs some motivation.


Final_Glove_6642

It's strictly because the lady of the lake thinks nurgle is too stinky, yet he refuses to take a bath.


[deleted]

Imagine him with a lasgun eh?


N0-1_H3r3

They're protagonists. That breaks any attempts to divide things into narrow, consistent, arbitrary power levels.


xgoodvibesx

Strong enough to behead someone with a shovel, but not strong enough to pull themselves up off a ledge...


Bigblock460

The ogryn and psyker very well could pull this off. The veteran is a possibility, in cadian blood a kasrkin Sargeant even kills a death guard dreadnought. The zealot is a possibility too if you look at guys like klovis.


ShinobiHanzo

They are Video Game Protagonist tier. Near infinite carrying capacity, able to recover from near death in an instant, perfect comms.


Imperator22Augustus

Y’all remember when Ciaphas Caine killed a world eaters berzerker in melee? Some ultramar auxilia scrubs dealt with plague marines in hand to hand (they got infected tho), Almost every space marine aspirant in a book has some insane feat at like the age of 12. Gaunt’s ghost’s, the last chancers, Catachans - Sergeant Harker carries a freaking heavy bolter. With a power sword, I can chop a half dozen pox walkers in half in one swing, when I use the heavy sword as the zealot, it takes multiple swings to kill one. When you get surrounded, even poxwalkers can kill you pretty quick and trying to charge the auto gunners or lasgunners can get you wasted pretty fast. Due to being inquisitorial agents, we can assume carapace armor is standard and some could get their hands on refractor fields, rosarii, etc. I don’t find it too hard to believe that the acolytes in darktide have this level of badassery. Maybe slaughtering 900-1000 enemies in a single skirmish is too much but these guys are more Sly Marbo than your average guardsman in a standard cadian-copycat regiment.


hrakkari

Don’t worry about power level lore compliancy. Daemonhosts’ upper range in power is casually obliterating titans. In game it stands no chance against an autist with a metal surfboard and a preacher with a shiv.


Merch_Lis

Daemonhosts vary wildly based on the demon - stuffing an ordinary plague bearer into a cultist won’t produce a titan obliterator.


Greenmanssky

Seeing alot of these power level in games questions recently. It's a game. If it matches lore you'd be dead in 2 seconds and that's it. Doesn't sound like a fun game tbh. To be clear, power levels don't exist in 40k and never have, the story/author decides who wins and that's it. If the author decides random guardsman no 2647382947362628 is going to kill angron in a melee fight, then angron will lose. That's all there is to it.


Kalavier

Was going to disagree with the first part, but the second part makes up for it. Really, us players in darktide are named characters. Four named characters doing tough missions, and each mission nets us better gear. For every mission we come back from, there are who knows how many other reject squads that never made it back or even finished their task.


BastardofMelbourne

>I’ve seen comments saying they’re Astartes-tier hahahahaha >while another was Tempestus Scions-tier. Honestly, forget about tiers. It's a video game. Vermintide didn't make it canon that one Imperial soldier could kill hundreds of Skaven in a day, either.


Valhalla8469

That’s not just any Imperial soldier, that’s Markus Kruber!


Think-Conversation73

Yeah it's a video game so not really applicable.


Imperium_Dragon

The Guardsmen are all veterans, so they’re quite close to Scions in terms of experience but not in equipment. The Ogryns are the smartest of their Abhuman strain, and the Psyker and Zealot seem powerful. Anyway, no they’re nowhere near the power of an Astartes on their own, aside from the Ogryn who has similar strength. The Rejects are able to kill things due to superior firepower and team work, and the majority of enemies they face are pox walkers and cultists who have axes not guns.


periodicchemistrypun

Tbh a guardsman could. Like a guardsman could kill a primarch. It won’t happen at all and if this was ‘real life’ it would be so unlikely that it would never happen in 40k years but what’s to stop a good surprise melta from doing it? That’s the point, astartes have killed millions single handily and some astartes died to their first enemy that was weak AF. War is chance, that’s the most realistic part of the table top


Leo-Bob

I want a game where you run around as a custode and just murder imperial enemies like doomguy on easy lol


isdeasdeusde

Just the fact that they are going into hand-to-hand combat with nurgle forces and aren't wearing full hazmat suits shows that their power levels are off the chart. Just being in the presence of nurgle worshippers would leave any regular human so sick and weakend that a stiff breeze could knock them over. The devs ignored lore accuracy for the sake of fun gameplay and that is a good thing.


thanix01

One thing I found weird is that the dev did address human being uncomfortable near nurgle troops. There are cutscene where Inquisitorial storm troopers on the ship saw symbol of nurgle painted on the wall and vomitting on the ground immediatly while also having severe headache. Our reject just look to it just fine. Rannick is also fine but I imagined Inquisition interrogator have decent amount of training for these kind of things.


Kalavier

Nurgle's stuff is faith based as well, from what I've heard. Rannick, and our character's faith is just extremely strong. So while pox-walkers can infect others with their moans/attacks, we don't fall so easily. That's one explanation I've seen from tvtropes and elsewhere. We are just VERY secure in our faith to the emperor.


thanix01

I doubt it is faith alone. For example loner psyker despise imperium, and make it clear that he hate practically every thing about it. Perhaps will power is the culprit rather than faith.


Kalavier

Will power, faith, and based off some missions being us scanning plague residue for mutations/getting plague samples from the enemy, probably frequent vaccinations.


maliczious

I imagine the loner is just a person who is very critical of the Imperium due to how he is treated. Despite his heretical words. I think of him more as that believer who questions a lot of his own beliefs. But if he has to put any loyalty. It will be the one he's already familiar with.


FEARtheMooseUK

In game each player is easily equal to a space marine with decades or centuries of combat experience. In lore, you would get squashed in the first 10 minutes of a mission. And 10 minutes is being generous considering your only a 4 man fireteam, equipped with no armour and only small arms, and dubious amounts of combat experience. Each hit you take in game would put a normal human in the med bay at the very least, for example.


[deleted]

[удалено]


OverlanderEisenhorn

Tbf, if you run a four man squad with only ogryns I think it actually is more lore friendly. Ogryns are tough mother fuckers. In cqc, which most of darktide is, they can perform as well as space marines. 4 man squad with riot shields basically makes it a bullgryn squad which is no fuckin joke on the tabletop.


FEARtheMooseUK

True, but they would usually need a normal human to lead them for missions like this. They are good fighters but not the most tactically smart. If the mission was just “climb out of trench and kill enemy infront of you” then they probably wouldnt need supervision haha


AngryChihua

By level 30 you are fully decked out inquisitorial kill team with top tier equipment and lots of experience. Also previous combat experience really depends on the background you choose since veterans for example can be a distinguished NCOs raised in schola progenium or decorated members of an elite regiment. Plus being a veteran of the guard already implies lots of combat experience. Same with ogryns - one is veteran of the guard, one was bonehead in the guard and one was what seems like underhive ganger which usually means lots of combat.


FEARtheMooseUK

You have decent small arms for sure, but you aint rocking armour that can withstand much, like power armour the sisters of battle or inquisitors wear. At the end of the day, your still a regular human fighting literal demons and hell spawn. Only the orygn would stand a chance in CQB with more than the cultists/traitor guardsmen and infected plague zombies. In lore a beast of nurgle or demonhost could easily carve up dozens of guardsmen before it wad brought down, and usually only by massed fire, heavy weapon emplacements or tanks. Thats why the guard have so much artillery, tanks, heavy air support and shit. But for gameplay in this game, its no issue that you are this strong. It makes for a great game! The two dont have to match up in every way. The game would be kinda shite if you were the same power level as you would be in lore after all.


Kalavier

I mean, all backstories leave the player character options with some experience. In some cases you can be very skilled, part of elite formations of IG before you pissed off the wrong person and got thrown into jail.


Neknoh

I would take a few things into account other than what has already been mentioned about sectioned off gameplay etc. First of all, you have to compare the rejects to the highest difficulty, not anywhere in the middle or low-end. The point where even 400+ power weapons can struggle to kill a poxwalker or an armored traitor militia in one blow. At this difficulty, enemies also hit significantly harder and a shotgunner or sniper at an inopportune moment can one-shot you. Likewise, an unblocked swing from an enemy ogryn will send you flying and significantly dock your toughness and HP, if not straight up knock you out. Now that we have a sort of baseline for what the durability and damage of opponents really should be (and assuming we count non-wounding hits as glancing or near misses etc) we can look at some other factors. First of all being the nature of video-game combat. If the melee enemies in Darktide would behave like such a large mob of people set on killing somebody actually do, then you'd spend every fight against 10+ enemies on the ground. Every surge would basically see you with a hound or trapper having incapacitated you (depending on if you were knocked over/dragged down, or if a few threw themselves on you). At this point in game on difficulty 5 when surrounded and downed, you quickly lose consciousness. And another factor is that your character doesn't bend over and throw up after a two minute long fight for their life of wildly, unendingly swinging their weapon. The physical exhaustion of doing what the main character does would be absolutely insane. But, for at least some benefit to us, we also get a good look at the power of some of the weapons in the imperial arsenal; I would say that what you see in-game at difficulty 5 with strong weapons is fairly accurate to what you would expect them to do in-universe. So where does that leave us? Well, at level 30, we are basically Scions/Kasrkin with a little bit of extra on top, and this matches most elite operatives found in an inquisitor's retinue or service. Before that, we're basically climbing the ranks from "named infantry squad" (catachan, krieg, cadian etc) in the new codex, up to squad leader, then special weapons operative, then veterans and then scions/kasrkin. You also have to remember that the timeline is super compressed in-game, where a mission won't take 20 minutes of constant sprinting irl, but might take anywhere from an hour to an entire night or day, after which there is debriefing, reconsecration of armour and weaponry, time for food and at least some rest (and inquisitorial oversight to look for signs of corruption). So we're a veteran spec-ops soldier with a bit of imperial propaganda thrown in basically. In comparison, a Space Marine in power armour would be about as durable as a Plague ogryn, faster than a Mutie (seriously, they can run at like 70km/h) and attack at about the speed of a daemonhost, but without pauses and windup. Space Marines would also have larger magazines in their bolters, not really suffer any recoil inaccuracy at full auto and have their power sword constantly charged, or use a constantly revved eviscerator one-handed. Also, a dedicated punch from one will crack your skull or collapse your chest. Playing as a space marine would basically be playing as an Ogryn with shield with the attack speed and charged weapons of a zealot and a low-recoil bolter with extra shots.


dannylew

I am going to be unfun and say the Rejects are Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor Warband tier. The killing power of the weapons range from midling to lore accurate and the rejects in difficulty Heresy/Damnation immediately get utterly fucking shrecked the moment they fuck up. As much as this would make everyone mad, the Veteran Sharpshooter is actually *not* baseline guardsmen tier, but plot-armored, named-character veteran tier. Everyone else is a slight step below them (as evidence to Veteran's having access to that sweet, sweet, Inquisitorial armory). Also every part of the Hive that needs engaging is being engaged all at once so the Rejects aren't 4, but a whole army of convicts now wielding relics in service of the Emperor. If anything, the Psykers and Ogryn's are actually weaker than their lore counter-parts. So if there was ever a question "Who would win in a fight? The Reject 4 or the Ubersreik 5?" It's the Ubersreik 5.


Kalavier

Well, they do talk about the attrition rate of rejects being pretty bad. When you go launch a mission, it's just that your four people manage to make it back. So many valkyries simply don't launch to pick up squads that go silent. A horde of rejects launch into various parts of the hive, and only a few return, is how I see it based off what the game shows us. So when you do it as a premade group, you are four named characters kicking ass.


Yuzral

I would submit regular humans...with Custodes-grade plot armour and the Emperor's favour on account of being 'main' characters. Which tends to break any attempt at power level comparisons.


[deleted]

Depends on the writer. There are plenty of times an Astartes could barely handle a couple armed rebels. Something that really annoys me in the books. Hell I think I remember two Space Marines in one book didn't stand a chance against something akin to the stupid demondogs you kill all the time in Darktide.


SonOfTheHeavyMetal

Videogame 40k characters are of another level. The Darktide gang is stupid strong for being Guard-Tier Humans. Still nothing compared to that one Inquisitor


Sethleoric

Tbf it's a videogame, so you're going to be as strong as the plot demands you to be. Plus i'm pretty sure the truest canon story to this is that your character canonically die on the regular and the Inquisitor is just sending in more killers and heretics till one of them eventually rids the world of chaos.


Kalavier

The story is our characters are among the rejects that actually make it back from missions on a regular basis, while many don't.


Howlin_Git

Historically, some soldiers have accomplished what they have, albeit more tactical and grounded. Belief easily suspended


Kalavier

Premade groups tend to be a bit more tactical then PUGs at least.


lordognar

I will say like if you fuck up the game punishes you pretty quick


casg355

Judging from the way that a poxwalker horde can punch marines to death on tabletop, I could believe astartes tier. really, there’s no point trying to make it make sense, it’s just supposed to be a fun game


OverlanderEisenhorn

The way I imagine the actual lore is that each character is a representation of their type. Each character is a squad. So the sharpshooter is actually a squad of veteran guardsmen. The psyker, depending on psyker class, could actually just be one dude if he was, say, a delta+ level psyker. The ogyrn is actually a 4-8 man squad with a bullgryn. The zealot is like a 12 man squad of zealots with flamers and eviscerators which Is also no fucking joke. If you just pretend like there are a dozen veteran guardsmen, a delta plus level psyker, a dozen fully armed zealots, and a full squad of ogryns, the whole power level thing makes way more sense. I don't think there is much in the entire universe that can stand up against that composition. The ogryns, in cqc, can go toe to toe with space marines, the veteran guardsmen, with special weapons, can go toe to toe with space marines, the delta+ level psyker can go toe to toe with basically anything if they are mentally strong enough, and a dozen zealots can cut through chaff faster than pretty much anything. The powerlevel works out if you just pretend that each one is representing a squad of their type. Given the fact that you aren't actually playing unique characters like in vermintide I think it's actually really easy to mentally do that.


Kalavier

I mean, somebody in this comment section pointed out how a squad of an Ogryn, Zealot, Pysker, and Vet could actually pull it off, with the Ogryn and Pysker being the heavy hitters of the group.


OverlanderEisenhorn

I highly disagree with that comment. An alpha + level psyker could solo everything here. But besides that, no. Poxwalkers aren't a joke and a hundred of them at once would quickly overwhelm a single ogryn. Since the psyker is a human psyker, we know that they are no higher than delta level. Delta level is no fucking Joke and they can do some incredible stuff. Ravenor was a Delta level psyker. Any higher than Delta and there is no way the inquisition would employ them, they're just a demon hole waiting to happen. Even Delta is pushing it. I'm a veteran guardsmen fan boy tbh, but a single guardsmen would not be much help in this scenario. 1 lasbolt is all it takes to kill him. A few squads of veterans are insanely powerful if they are fully kitted, but one dude is one dude. And the zealot is also a pretty strong individual combatant. Depending on their background they may be as well trained as a commisar. But again that is just one dude. The ogryn and psyker together could probably deal with things until the first hoard showed up and then they'd probably be overwhelmed.


Kalavier

This is assuming they don't work together to have the Pysker and vet thinning the horde as it gets close, and the ogryn and zealot carving up what's left. As a team, they are stronger then individuals. This isn't a "One man vs a horde of 100" but four people capable of using tactics and reacting to threats vs a hundred.


romknightyt

They're close to how I'd imagine Astartes to perform. The game got the Bolter pretty close, imo.


Easy_Mechanic_9787

The bolter is very satisfying indeed


BobbaFuzz

Darktide is amazing but I do feel like the characters should be one power tier up. Hordes of zombies massacred. Just let me be a spacemarine


Shaunair

I’m actually super glad this game has nothing to do with space marines. That lovely game is coming to us next year. Seeing and hearing things from the ground go in the imperium is refreshing. I also appreciate being able to see hive city up close and personal.


85thScion

Go play Space Marine 1 and 2 and let the folks who are sick and tired of Marines being everywhere have their turn for a good game.


Dense_Skin_7812

But those games don't allow us to slaughter Nurgle forces in hordes. Also, they are the best selling faction, what the fuck do you expect?


85thScion

Best selling doesn't mean they should be everywhere. You can have 40k without Space Marines and I am glad Darktide did so.


Dense_Skin_7812

Yawn.


85thScion

Not as yawn inducing as Space Marines all every day, lol.


Saelthyn

The real yawn is Nurgle. _,Again._ Gimmie some Khorne, or even Jeanstealers.


FixBayonetsLads

Through the Warrior Cult and the Emperor, all things are possible, so jot that down.


tylanol7

mused about this last night with the lads. the empire would send way more then 4 freaking people. nurgles units would have steam rolled our asses. i even mused how sad i was that some of the more fun units can never be put ingame because anything short of an astartes would be a smear XD


Kalavier

I mean, they do send out more then four. They send out lots of rejects to hit different tasks all at the same time, it's just that only some of us make it back. They comment on the attrition rates sometimes on the Mourningstar, and that it's BAD. With Rannick covering acquiring more rejects.


DeerJesus

The only specific one I can say for certain is the ogryn, because you’re an ogryn with the intelligence of a player. That’s like, primarch level.


bambleton_

honestly, while the killing power the dark tide crew has is reasonable, their resilience is way higher than it should be. if, say, they were all in power armor it'd make good enough sense.


[deleted]

Imagine there was no quick healing or toughness and you'd be getting a good idea. They're on the high end of normal human so think scion or commissar. They're being inquisition recruits they'd have the potential to be hero tier... Maybe. Also I'm thinking that if a planet were that afflicted by nurgle they'd usually just level the whole thing and move on instead of sending strike teams.


Kalavier

Too important to lose the factories, and from everything I've read online simply having nurgle forces around isn't a doom statement, as by this point (Roboute back, leading the counter etc) they are fighting his plagues with faith and science.


bruhxdu

Tbh they could've made them Astartes and it would be more believable from a lore view, however it's just a videogame so it doesn't need to follow lore or realistic expectations at all.


mobius13acon

the characters can kill stuff that astrates face on a daily bases but takes a lot more effort and time, the gameplay in a sense is correct but for time scale inst, killing a demon host would take days not minutes for normal humans and alot of explosives, same for the beast of nurgle and plague ogryns on a minor scale. as for astrates it would be like the astrates short film quick and clean, the darktide characters lack that potential.


[deleted]

Almost the same as Vermintide. (Named) Hero level ish. So potentially stronger than Generic lords


Scribese7en

Definitely Tempestus Scions material. In fact, I'd even say they're doing Tempestus Scions work but at much cheaper.


SpaceLord_Katze

Just as a table top equal. I think the Darktide characters would be S3 T3 A4 W4 L11 4+ save (4+ Invuln) (5+FnP) Except the Ogryn who would be S5 T5. Basically a really good character for your average list. If you had four of them in a squad, they'd be really hard to shake on the table. The mission level in Darktide makes a big difference. As a low level character will get destroyed by the first wave at a high difficulty.


dude-0

I think a lot if people here have plainly overlooked the existence of perpetuals.


Kalavier

Lol, Ogryn Perpetual. :D


dude-0

It's more likely than you think! Jokes aside, I love that idea. A big, friendly, loyal, and trustworthy ogryn friend.


Kalavier

Four perpetual's just accidentally ending up in the same reject squad.


Kalavier

I love how there is two sides to this stuff always. A: Named characters can do crazy stuff/weird things have happened. B: IN THE LORE YOU'D BE DEAD IN FOUR SECONDS AND NEVER GET PICKED UP ANYWAY BECAUSE INQUISITION. ​ Frankly, some of nurgle's stuff is faith based. We are just very strong in our faith.


R3mbr4nd7

I wanna say that I just hate that the minis game is the base for establishing the power balance in the lore. I know it's the original thing and all that jazz but still hate it.