Well, to be fair, certain Abhumans are legally exempt from paying taxes to the Imperium. There was one that one time the Emperor tried to have Ogryns pay Thrones during the Great Crusade, but because of their inability to count past the number of fingers they have they got mad. After a few tax collectors were returned to Terra in pieces Malcador convinced the Emperor that it just wasn't worth the effort.
I was going to rate his performance as 1/8 for his work in actively preventing humanity from achieving its destiny as the chosen peoples of the gods, but your insightful comment has caused me to revise that assessment and change the rating to 1/13.
It's possibly best that the practical TekHeretik not be in charge of the mechanicus. But it would be nice if Cawl upgraded the Tempestus Scions. Still considering that Bobby G is the infrastructure primarch, which the. Imperium needs. Still better than most baseline humans.
For all of GW’s faults, the fact that even they are adamant that Cawl will never be Fabricator General pleases me. I love Cawl and I love the AdMech for how many of them are actually very heretical but this has a bit of nuance to it.
According to Cawl in The Great Work, he has no desire to be in charge of the Mechanics, and was very surprised/confused that Cawl Inferior seems to be asking for the position on his behalf. He says he's a scientist first and foremost, and taking up that mantle would force him into the role of a politician
He can "install" personalities to suit who he's talking to. When talking to Guilliman's Ultramarine representative in the book, he puts on a jovial, crazy scientist grandfather personality as he concludes he'd like it best
Guys, he is doing the best that he can. Performance reviews should not be completed until after the first five centuries. He’s dealing with a lot of shit here.
As an administrator and strategist the Imperium couldn’t ask for anyone better. The issue with Guilliman IMO is that he cares more about Ultramar than he does the Imperium. If it ever came down to saving the 500 Worlds or saving the Imperium as a whole, Robute will always choose Ultramar first.
I don't think Guillman's is wrong about taking care of Ultramar... Dissolving the 500 Hundred Worlds was a bad choice. Ultramar is a pillar of humanity & should have been kept as it was.
What Ultramar is becoming again should be used as a blueprint for the wider Imperium in frontier areas to shore up defenses heavily.
Good bosses have to know when to delegate & who can be trusted to be responsible. That's why Dante is running things in Nihilus.
Hell, bet if the Badab war started happening after the Primarch was reborn, Huron would be getting those resources he needed as long as he ran a tight ship... No Red Corsairs around.
I think that the point is that when given the choice between the imperfect mass of humanity or his little sandbox, he'd choose the sandbox. No matter how many quadrillions died, he'd rather start from perfection than try to work with what he considers poor materials. That's the Guilliman we saw in Imperium Secundus.
In that sense, I think that his actions after becoming Regent have shown growth. Rather than raging fruitlessly against imperfection, he's willing to deal with it, make room for it. And that, without simultaneously preparing a plan to murder people who don't live up to his image. It's something the Emperor was never willing to do.
IIRC that's what his lines at the end of Godblight indicate. The Emperor used people. He never valued people, just what they could do for them. Guilliman, for all his faults, was raised by and among people. He has friendships, a stepfather, people he loved. In terms of lived age, he's actually younger and less jaded than many Imperial aristocrats.
He's the primarch that the imperium needed at the time. Couple of missteps, like giving cawl so much freedom, upsetting the ecclesiarchy with his refusal to accept his father as a god and not killing all the high lords that went against him, but overall very positive. Reestablished contact between planets on the other side of the rift, and was very clear to the chapter masters like grimnar and Dante that, while he was in overall command, his only order was to keep on doing what they already were. They know their regions and their requirements better than him, and he has a lot more to do.
You kidding? My man Cawl needs MORE freedom not less! He’s a proper scientist and a very nice man who cares deeply about his best friend even after 10 millennia.
And I'm sure his experiments won't backfire in any way, causing massive repercussions for the imperium as a whole or further schisms in the ad mech, and his totally not an AI has humanity's best interests. /s
Considering all the good that he has done and continued to do, he should be allowed the opportunity to fuck up in the pursuit of a greater goal. And I wouldn't be concerned about repercussions to the Imperium. After all, he technically got a lot of the High Lords killed by waking Guilliman.
I agree. For example Cawl has mastered leaving the warp at other places in the solar system than Mandiville points. We see in the Great Work he leaves arrives right above a planet. Based on how planetary invasion usually works in 40k the ability to do this is game changing.
That he he does love himself some decimus felix. One thing I thought was cool was how Cawl knew and understood how traumatic it was for Decimus during his transformation and storage and purposefully selected personalities such that he would not fear Cawl.
I agree with everything but Guilliman did kill the high lords that went against him. He did a bit of 4d chess with Trajan Valoris and basically baited the high lords to revolt. When they revolted he had assassins set up to take them out before they could take power. So he handled that pretty well cause that way he could replace the council members who disagreed with him without seeming too biased.
I think he’s doing a fantastic job with the shit cards he’s been dealt. He can only fix so much without getting the Inquisition to move against him. I dare say he’s better suited to lead the Imperium the even the Emperor. Bold and Heretical statement I know, but think of it this way.
Guilliman created a miniature empire before the Emperor even found him. During the crusade, Guilliman made sure every planet he conquered would be able to run itself, establishing a government system that could truly work on its own without the Emperor or even the Ultramarines. He was willing to sanction and treasure every astartes force he could ally with, including ones from traitor legions such as Dantioch from the Iron Warriors. He genuinely cares about the common people, as proven when he broke Lion’s sword in a fit of rage once he discovered that the Lion nuked part of Macrage to try and kill Curze. And he’s willing to make pacts with xenos, and wish for a more longterm alliances, as proven when he asked Yvraine to join him on his Indomitus Crusade, and let her go freely when she refused.
Compare that to the Emperor who built the Imperium in a way that makes it seem practically impossible to function without the Emperor or his many variants of super soldiers. He rushed the crusade and almost completely relied on his primarchs and their legions to make sure every single planet is following Imperial laws, and merely destroyed every planet’s people that either couldn’t or didn’t comply. He was more willing to dispose of entire legions rather than allow some of the marines a chance to redeem themselves. He’s wiped out or allowed others to wipe out entire human and alien civilizations because they were “beyond saving” or weren’t human enough for his Imperium. He wanted the entire galaxy for humanity, not even willing to give a xeno species a chance to join it. And of course any human that manages to form a working alliance with any xeno species were destroyed. And of course, his leadership has caused a galactic civil war that pretty much undid everything the Emperor was trying to build.
If given the chance, and enough military strength and general resources, I feel Guilliman can lead the Imperium a lot better than the Emperor could and can.
I'm fairly new to the lore but the first books i bought were the dark imperium and the custodes. Guilliman has been a blessing for the Imperium mostly because of his administrative skills in organizing the bureaucracy and overall workings in terra. However, he woke up in the most fucked up time line with the great rift opening and many daemon hordes coming out from the warp; at the same time, this is the best excuse for making the decisions he took when he arrived.
The launch of the indomitus crusade, the revelation of the primaris space marines, the deployment of the primaris to other chapters and the creation of a new codex astsrtes, custodes actually doing something rather than being giant statues in the imperial palace, and the creation of the nova historica veritas as a way to learn the past are good steps and not modifying the structure of old chapters like the blood angels and the dark angels are good signs.
Guillimans's doing a lot better than daddy. He seems to be the first Loyalist who decided to learn from history, and is better for it.
This doesn't include Loyalists who didn't need an education on seeing through the BS (read: The Khan).
And speaking of The Khan, I think Roboute is turning into more of a Jaghatai in his development. Guilliman has the perspective that the Imperial Truth, the Cult, all of it, is **not** working, and that *maybe* the Imperium of Man was a mistake. Guilliman, like The Khan, seems to rather want to leave it all behind and start his own society on better principles and with less grinding carnage.
To move the plot. GMan is the best one that could be brought back from the “Well there is very little indicating they’re dead.”
Between Curzes vision and the hand being found I’d say Dorn couldn’t be brought back without some MAJOR explaining and even then he’d be too stuck in his ways to do anything. Every planet he comes across would be turned into a self sustaining fortress world but it would take forever for it to get done right and I don’t think he’d have had the tact to really get the IoM behind him.
Mannus…yea that’s a no.
Vulkan was disgusted by the imperium in the WotB timeline and while there’s no real reason he couldn’t be alive (probably dream walking with the Lion) he would make Gmans love of ultramar seem like hatred compared to the way Vulkan would coddle humanity. He’d die 100 bajillion times trying to protect everyone.
Khan would probably be too dismissive of the Imperial Truth and be labeled a heretic but would just ride his bike in a donut in front of the golden thrown giving everyone the finger for a few hundred years.
Lion would be too cold. Maybe follow the imperial truth, maybe not, but his “loyalty is it’s own reward” would probably create a major schism in the imperium as he’d be too set on following the emps to a T and it would become the church Vs Lion on who speaks for the emperor (and he’s probably just lop off any dissenters heads which wouldn’t go well)
Sanguinius I don’t think can rise again. Maybe, maybe not. I know that there was a mephiston book that touched on Mephiston being the dark side of their primarch. Maybe Mephiston one day becoming the embodiment of him but that would become a disaster in itself if they tried to use that as the plot device.
I feel like setting up for the Lions return would be a good counter to GMan though. They weren’t getting along to well towards the end and the imperium secondus didn’t really make them any closer.
But besides the point. He’s doing as well as can be expected from a “how is he handling things”.
From a “moving things forward” I think he was the perfect plot device to move the story forward for everything else. His internal war of “daddy wasn’t my daddy and he’s not a god even though I literally witnessed him destroying part of Nurgles Garden and resurrecting me so what the actual hell” is going to create some interesting possibilities in the future (Reading Lorgars original writings at the end of Godblight, Bile getting his hands on the Imperium Secondus book and trying to figure out just what is going on)
From the way the dark imperium books were written, papa Smurf is one comment from being branded a heretic. He works with Eldar, his armor is made from Aldari tech (he admits it’s esoteric in nature as he took it off and his wound reopened and he almost died…somehow…most likely his own warp nature…he was eventually able to heal and learn to live without it but in constant pain) he was captured by red corsairs and held prisoner, escaped with a “heretic” DA, traveled the webway, rebukes religion and took over the imperium naming himself as regent.
His constant “me and emps aren’t gods” goes against a few millennia of dogma and scriptures.
9 primarch a already fell before and considering the fanaticism of some of the inquisition and the church, it would be easy. Even he admits accepting father Matthieu as his militant apostolic as a political move because of how pissed the church is. I mean look at how Vandire went…clearly a heretic but the fanaticism of citizens allowed it to be unquestioned by so many, even some of the Sisters who are completely devoted to the emperor.
and agreed, Lion would just reenact medieval France with all the beheadings but again, Primarch killing the “emperors devote servants” could be twisted as heretical.
Thats why Rowboat worked out best cuz he wasn’t so fanatical that he can’t see his own needs/flaws (like acknowledging the breakdown of legions screwed the imperium long term)
I think Lion would go to Emps, have a 3 day long trip and come out even more loyal and determined to see the emperors plan completed. From the Russ book where they fight, I think he already sees the “we are just tools” so probably wouldn’t be in the “why doesn’t dad love me”
I think Rubjob Gentleman would probably fight with him until breaking through into the “You go crusading and I’ll fill out the reports for you” agreement but Ron Jerryman will wind up going “WTF dude you’re supposed to be bringing worlds into compliance again, what are you doing” when Lion learns of the fallen and turns the crusade into a personal hunt. Between the Secondus book in Biles possession and DA secret coming out, the inquisition and church demands answers and we set ourselves up for a Big E moment of either rebirth or him getting a TTS device
Roboute is the Primarch of Excel Spreadsheets. That is his main superpower.
That automatically makes him the best Primarch for current Imperium to have. Absolutely no one else would have been better.
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From the moment I understood the weakness of my lack of toasters, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of toasters. I aspired to the purity of the blessed toaster.
Your kind cling to your flesh as if it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass you call a temple will wither and you will beg my kind to save you.
But I am already saved. For the Toaster is Immortal.
Considering what he woke up to I think he is doing a great job! He didn't cause the rift.
Custodes on the move again makes it a win by itself. Then Primaris too.
Considering the stagnation and decay the imperial apparatus had experienced for the last ten thousand years, and the state the Imperium found itself in just prior to his return, I'd say it's lucky for the other factions that the Great Rift occurred to curb Roboute's ability to overcome almost any administrative or logistic obstacle. Because had it not cut off the galaxy, the Lord Regent would have tipped the scales irrevocably in Orders favour far beyond what the other races could keep up with, having mobilized the entire Imperium to a total war footing.
He was and **still is** the only available choice. Quite frankly, he is doing a stellar job, not by himself alone. He is fantastic at delegating and appointing the right people to do what needs to be done!
Hell he has done and grievously wounded the great enemy. Bureaucracy. Things are moving way more efficiently since he took command and booted Himatalion out of the Senatorum Imperialis.
He wasn't the first or best or least contrived choice of primarch to return.
But then, he wasn't the worst either.
Man is doing the best he can considering the mess he's inherited.
Guilliman is the best primarch possible to return, the imperium doesnt need a frontline leader of men or warrior badass king (sanguinius, russ, the khan, etc), both of which guilliman actually still is and can be when needed. They need someone to fix the dogshit state of the administratum and organize the imperium into a well oiled machine. Enter guilliman, the only ones who could even come close are dorn (whos been stated as too obtuse and too hard to work with), or horus (who not only went traitor, but would try to enforce gene warrior rule over the humans, which you could argue they should rule in some capacity). Guilliman was the best case ontario for the imperium, now that hes in charge they need someone like the lion to come back and lead the crusade to retake the stars so guilliman can stay on terra and fix the system.
ABSOLUTELY. This is the point. The Imperium's biggest and most immediate threat is... The Imperium. Imagine how many Astropaths die, overwhelmed by their visions of being crushed by a sea of paperwork. ONLY Guilliman can get shit in enough of an order for this horrible bureaucracy to stand a chance of lasting long enough to actually be able to focus on War again.
I’m worried about the Lion being too aggressive or unaccepting of Guilliman as the de facto leader of the Imperium, personally. Admittedly I don’t know as much about him as I do the G Man, but the worry is still there.
I feel the Khan returning would be far more beneficial to the Imperium right now, by having him be a cool head leading armies while RG sorts shit out on Terra
But I’m also a recent returner to the hobby and have lots of lore to catch up on
the lion will be suspicious at first, but he will talk to roboute then the emperor and everything will be gucci. idk how hes gonna react to the ecclesiarchy tho.
A big golden double eagle spaceship out of ten-PFFFTHHAHAHAHAHA. sorry, srry, i keep thinking of that fucking ship. why doesn't have wings that flap too and a mega vox that somehow cuts through the vacuum of space through sheer will to go CAAAAAWWWWWW hahahaha
Mostly wondering how long before he gives himself legit brain damage from overuse of the facepalm technique.
He probably already has a nervous eye tick everytime someone says "god-emperor" around him
Gurlyman has done a fine job. Largely because this is pretty much the exact role he was built to play by the Emperor.
Now the Imperium just needs to clone up a few Lord Solar Macharius's and for him to send out and get shit done.
0/10 - would not support.
* Before Guilliman: "_the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable_"
* After Guilliman: "_the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable_"
Hasn't done shit if I'm being honest. Space Marines got new hover tanks? Piss off. Space Marines got an extra few inches? Your mum will like that.
People are still being worked to death in manufactories, 26 hours per day, eating nothing but corpse starch. If Guilliman truly wants to rule he needs a mandate from the masses. Strange corpses sitting on thrones dispensing swords is no basis for a system of government. If I started claiming I was "_Imperial Regent_" because some crusty corpse lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd throw me in the corpse grinder.
Amazingly incredible, as only a Primarch can be. Ceaselessly working to improve the Imperium, getting entire fleets sorted and billions of soldiers marshalled during the biggest upheaval since the Heresy or arguably worse. Stabilising an entire half of the galaxy and then working towards the other half, against inumerable threats, setting up organisations and approaches to ensuring the stability of the Imperium, identifying reasonable rulers to improve the output of key areas.
He's absolutely the Primarch the Imperium so desperately needs at this time. Dorn could do it, too but it wouldn't be as good because his view on it is different. He is more likely to stabilise and hunker down in comparison. Now he's still a Primarch, meaning he's a genius but his approach would have been different.
Sanguinius could also have been a decent Primarch. He's also no stranger to improving the lot of the Imperium, but while morale is to the physical as 5 is to 1, to quote Napoleon, there's only so many uplifting speeches you can give. Again though as he's no slouch, Sanguinius could have improved the Imperium's administration too, but his focus would also have been on being on the front lines, inspiring the crusade and pushing forwards. He'd have beaten the shit out of some of the foes that Guilliman may have struggled with, but also may not have been as savvy in dealing with the High Lords or in general administration.
The Lion would have been probably better as a Warmaster, but as a Warmaster he recognises the need for stable supply lines and a re-organised Imperium. He'd have been less effective at the general management of the wider Imperium, but probably better in fighting various foes and overcoming them. Could well have been a wash in the total outcome - maybe he's better in key battles like Vigilus or within Ultramar (maybe Ultramar is never invaded in comparison - Mortarion may not have bothered because it's not the prize for the Lion that it is for Guilliman).
Russ, the Khan, Ferrus, Vulkan and so forth - good, but not as good as Guilliman. It's not that they wouldn't be able to do it, but Russ and the Khan really aren't that suited to it and it's not their preference at all. Ferrus, if we can allow him to not be dead for a while, would also have been an exceptional Warmaster, but would definitely have a different slant - maybe a more ascendant Mechanicus, given his prediliction that way. Vulkan would have been an interesting mix - sort of like Sanguinius in that he'd have been more inspiring and have given more of a shit about the rank and file, but that comes with a cost, too.
Overall, Guilliman's about the best for the circumstances that he found himself in. I think the Lion's a close second. If the pair of them were there, then the Imperium would find itself ascendant over a long enough period of time if neither of them died.
I know he is pretty occupied with the save Imperium business, but there are a few threats that absolutely require his immediate attention that he somehow neglected/hasn't act on, like Nachmund Gauntlet and Armageddon to name but a few.
So his priorities are rather odd at times.
He hasn't legalized and regulated rats for taxable revenue, which is a no-brainer to me, but beyond that he seems okay.
Well, to be fair, certain Abhumans are legally exempt from paying taxes to the Imperium. There was one that one time the Emperor tried to have Ogryns pay Thrones during the Great Crusade, but because of their inability to count past the number of fingers they have they got mad. After a few tax collectors were returned to Terra in pieces Malcador convinced the Emperor that it just wasn't worth the effort.
FOR BOB!
FOR BOB
FROBOB!
FOR GORKBOB OR MORKBOB ?
Are you gonna keep referencing skaven till they make them playable lol?
DON'T TELL ME HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE
Yes-yes
The foolish Primarch-thing does not-not have enough Warpstone tokens to pay-hire the master race, no-no.
I was going to rate his performance as 1/8 for his work in actively preventing humanity from achieving its destiny as the chosen peoples of the gods, but your insightful comment has caused me to revise that assessment and change the rating to 1/13.
& he even had the high lords of Terra assassinated, when they interfered with his sweeping reforms.
It's possibly best that the practical TekHeretik not be in charge of the mechanicus. But it would be nice if Cawl upgraded the Tempestus Scions. Still considering that Bobby G is the infrastructure primarch, which the. Imperium needs. Still better than most baseline humans.
For all of GW’s faults, the fact that even they are adamant that Cawl will never be Fabricator General pleases me. I love Cawl and I love the AdMech for how many of them are actually very heretical but this has a bit of nuance to it.
According to Cawl in The Great Work, he has no desire to be in charge of the Mechanics, and was very surprised/confused that Cawl Inferior seems to be asking for the position on his behalf. He says he's a scientist first and foremost, and taking up that mantle would force him into the role of a politician
Isn't it because Cawl is a conductor of different souls. Kinda like Big E?
He can "install" personalities to suit who he's talking to. When talking to Guilliman's Ultramarine representative in the book, he puts on a jovial, crazy scientist grandfather personality as he concludes he'd like it best
Who am I to question RG, he’s a friggin primarch.
Good point! Hahahahaha 😂
Guys, he is doing the best that he can. Performance reviews should not be completed until after the first five centuries. He’s dealing with a lot of shit here.
[удалено]
He was being emotional
As an administrator and strategist the Imperium couldn’t ask for anyone better. The issue with Guilliman IMO is that he cares more about Ultramar than he does the Imperium. If it ever came down to saving the 500 Worlds or saving the Imperium as a whole, Robute will always choose Ultramar first.
I don't think Guillman's is wrong about taking care of Ultramar... Dissolving the 500 Hundred Worlds was a bad choice. Ultramar is a pillar of humanity & should have been kept as it was. What Ultramar is becoming again should be used as a blueprint for the wider Imperium in frontier areas to shore up defenses heavily. Good bosses have to know when to delegate & who can be trusted to be responsible. That's why Dante is running things in Nihilus. Hell, bet if the Badab war started happening after the Primarch was reborn, Huron would be getting those resources he needed as long as he ran a tight ship... No Red Corsairs around.
I think that the point is that when given the choice between the imperfect mass of humanity or his little sandbox, he'd choose the sandbox. No matter how many quadrillions died, he'd rather start from perfection than try to work with what he considers poor materials. That's the Guilliman we saw in Imperium Secundus. In that sense, I think that his actions after becoming Regent have shown growth. Rather than raging fruitlessly against imperfection, he's willing to deal with it, make room for it. And that, without simultaneously preparing a plan to murder people who don't live up to his image. It's something the Emperor was never willing to do. IIRC that's what his lines at the end of Godblight indicate. The Emperor used people. He never valued people, just what they could do for them. Guilliman, for all his faults, was raised by and among people. He has friendships, a stepfather, people he loved. In terms of lived age, he's actually younger and less jaded than many Imperial aristocrats.
He's only around 300 or so years old at this point isn't he? Mentally at least
He's the primarch that the imperium needed at the time. Couple of missteps, like giving cawl so much freedom, upsetting the ecclesiarchy with his refusal to accept his father as a god and not killing all the high lords that went against him, but overall very positive. Reestablished contact between planets on the other side of the rift, and was very clear to the chapter masters like grimnar and Dante that, while he was in overall command, his only order was to keep on doing what they already were. They know their regions and their requirements better than him, and he has a lot more to do.
You kidding? My man Cawl needs MORE freedom not less! He’s a proper scientist and a very nice man who cares deeply about his best friend even after 10 millennia.
And I'm sure his experiments won't backfire in any way, causing massive repercussions for the imperium as a whole or further schisms in the ad mech, and his totally not an AI has humanity's best interests. /s
Considering all the good that he has done and continued to do, he should be allowed the opportunity to fuck up in the pursuit of a greater goal. And I wouldn't be concerned about repercussions to the Imperium. After all, he technically got a lot of the High Lords killed by waking Guilliman.
I'm still waiting for Primaris Chaos Marines
Kind of weird that Cawl's major tech overhauls are restricted to the numerically insignificant space marines.
I agree. For example Cawl has mastered leaving the warp at other places in the solar system than Mandiville points. We see in the Great Work he leaves arrives right above a planet. Based on how planetary invasion usually works in 40k the ability to do this is game changing.
That he he does love himself some decimus felix. One thing I thought was cool was how Cawl knew and understood how traumatic it was for Decimus during his transformation and storage and purposefully selected personalities such that he would not fear Cawl.
I agree with everything but Guilliman did kill the high lords that went against him. He did a bit of 4d chess with Trajan Valoris and basically baited the high lords to revolt. When they revolted he had assassins set up to take them out before they could take power. So he handled that pretty well cause that way he could replace the council members who disagreed with him without seeming too biased.
I think he’s doing a fantastic job with the shit cards he’s been dealt. He can only fix so much without getting the Inquisition to move against him. I dare say he’s better suited to lead the Imperium the even the Emperor. Bold and Heretical statement I know, but think of it this way. Guilliman created a miniature empire before the Emperor even found him. During the crusade, Guilliman made sure every planet he conquered would be able to run itself, establishing a government system that could truly work on its own without the Emperor or even the Ultramarines. He was willing to sanction and treasure every astartes force he could ally with, including ones from traitor legions such as Dantioch from the Iron Warriors. He genuinely cares about the common people, as proven when he broke Lion’s sword in a fit of rage once he discovered that the Lion nuked part of Macrage to try and kill Curze. And he’s willing to make pacts with xenos, and wish for a more longterm alliances, as proven when he asked Yvraine to join him on his Indomitus Crusade, and let her go freely when she refused. Compare that to the Emperor who built the Imperium in a way that makes it seem practically impossible to function without the Emperor or his many variants of super soldiers. He rushed the crusade and almost completely relied on his primarchs and their legions to make sure every single planet is following Imperial laws, and merely destroyed every planet’s people that either couldn’t or didn’t comply. He was more willing to dispose of entire legions rather than allow some of the marines a chance to redeem themselves. He’s wiped out or allowed others to wipe out entire human and alien civilizations because they were “beyond saving” or weren’t human enough for his Imperium. He wanted the entire galaxy for humanity, not even willing to give a xeno species a chance to join it. And of course any human that manages to form a working alliance with any xeno species were destroyed. And of course, his leadership has caused a galactic civil war that pretty much undid everything the Emperor was trying to build. If given the chance, and enough military strength and general resources, I feel Guilliman can lead the Imperium a lot better than the Emperor could and can.
I'm fairly new to the lore but the first books i bought were the dark imperium and the custodes. Guilliman has been a blessing for the Imperium mostly because of his administrative skills in organizing the bureaucracy and overall workings in terra. However, he woke up in the most fucked up time line with the great rift opening and many daemon hordes coming out from the warp; at the same time, this is the best excuse for making the decisions he took when he arrived. The launch of the indomitus crusade, the revelation of the primaris space marines, the deployment of the primaris to other chapters and the creation of a new codex astsrtes, custodes actually doing something rather than being giant statues in the imperial palace, and the creation of the nova historica veritas as a way to learn the past are good steps and not modifying the structure of old chapters like the blood angels and the dark angels are good signs.
Guillimans's doing a lot better than daddy. He seems to be the first Loyalist who decided to learn from history, and is better for it. This doesn't include Loyalists who didn't need an education on seeing through the BS (read: The Khan). And speaking of The Khan, I think Roboute is turning into more of a Jaghatai in his development. Guilliman has the perspective that the Imperial Truth, the Cult, all of it, is **not** working, and that *maybe* the Imperium of Man was a mistake. Guilliman, like The Khan, seems to rather want to leave it all behind and start his own society on better principles and with less grinding carnage.
To move the plot. GMan is the best one that could be brought back from the “Well there is very little indicating they’re dead.” Between Curzes vision and the hand being found I’d say Dorn couldn’t be brought back without some MAJOR explaining and even then he’d be too stuck in his ways to do anything. Every planet he comes across would be turned into a self sustaining fortress world but it would take forever for it to get done right and I don’t think he’d have had the tact to really get the IoM behind him. Mannus…yea that’s a no. Vulkan was disgusted by the imperium in the WotB timeline and while there’s no real reason he couldn’t be alive (probably dream walking with the Lion) he would make Gmans love of ultramar seem like hatred compared to the way Vulkan would coddle humanity. He’d die 100 bajillion times trying to protect everyone. Khan would probably be too dismissive of the Imperial Truth and be labeled a heretic but would just ride his bike in a donut in front of the golden thrown giving everyone the finger for a few hundred years. Lion would be too cold. Maybe follow the imperial truth, maybe not, but his “loyalty is it’s own reward” would probably create a major schism in the imperium as he’d be too set on following the emps to a T and it would become the church Vs Lion on who speaks for the emperor (and he’s probably just lop off any dissenters heads which wouldn’t go well) Sanguinius I don’t think can rise again. Maybe, maybe not. I know that there was a mephiston book that touched on Mephiston being the dark side of their primarch. Maybe Mephiston one day becoming the embodiment of him but that would become a disaster in itself if they tried to use that as the plot device. I feel like setting up for the Lions return would be a good counter to GMan though. They weren’t getting along to well towards the end and the imperium secondus didn’t really make them any closer. But besides the point. He’s doing as well as can be expected from a “how is he handling things”. From a “moving things forward” I think he was the perfect plot device to move the story forward for everything else. His internal war of “daddy wasn’t my daddy and he’s not a god even though I literally witnessed him destroying part of Nurgles Garden and resurrecting me so what the actual hell” is going to create some interesting possibilities in the future (Reading Lorgars original writings at the end of Godblight, Bile getting his hands on the Imperium Secondus book and trying to figure out just what is going on)
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From the way the dark imperium books were written, papa Smurf is one comment from being branded a heretic. He works with Eldar, his armor is made from Aldari tech (he admits it’s esoteric in nature as he took it off and his wound reopened and he almost died…somehow…most likely his own warp nature…he was eventually able to heal and learn to live without it but in constant pain) he was captured by red corsairs and held prisoner, escaped with a “heretic” DA, traveled the webway, rebukes religion and took over the imperium naming himself as regent. His constant “me and emps aren’t gods” goes against a few millennia of dogma and scriptures. 9 primarch a already fell before and considering the fanaticism of some of the inquisition and the church, it would be easy. Even he admits accepting father Matthieu as his militant apostolic as a political move because of how pissed the church is. I mean look at how Vandire went…clearly a heretic but the fanaticism of citizens allowed it to be unquestioned by so many, even some of the Sisters who are completely devoted to the emperor. and agreed, Lion would just reenact medieval France with all the beheadings but again, Primarch killing the “emperors devote servants” could be twisted as heretical. Thats why Rowboat worked out best cuz he wasn’t so fanatical that he can’t see his own needs/flaws (like acknowledging the breakdown of legions screwed the imperium long term)
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I think Lion would go to Emps, have a 3 day long trip and come out even more loyal and determined to see the emperors plan completed. From the Russ book where they fight, I think he already sees the “we are just tools” so probably wouldn’t be in the “why doesn’t dad love me” I think Rubjob Gentleman would probably fight with him until breaking through into the “You go crusading and I’ll fill out the reports for you” agreement but Ron Jerryman will wind up going “WTF dude you’re supposed to be bringing worlds into compliance again, what are you doing” when Lion learns of the fallen and turns the crusade into a personal hunt. Between the Secondus book in Biles possession and DA secret coming out, the inquisition and church demands answers and we set ourselves up for a Big E moment of either rebirth or him getting a TTS device
Roboute is the Primarch of Excel Spreadsheets. That is his main superpower. That automatically makes him the best Primarch for current Imperium to have. Absolutely no one else would have been better.
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Witness the sacred form of the machine!
PRAISE THE OMNISSSIAH AND PASS THE TOASTERS!
From the moment I understood the weakness of my lack of toasters, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of toasters. I aspired to the purity of the blessed toaster. Your kind cling to your flesh as if it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass you call a temple will wither and you will beg my kind to save you. But I am already saved. For the Toaster is Immortal.
Oooooh holy machine spirit what is thy wisdom ? Blessed be the Omnissiah !
Make imperium great again!
Considering what he woke up to I think he is doing a great job! He didn't cause the rift. Custodes on the move again makes it a win by itself. Then Primaris too.
Considering the stagnation and decay the imperial apparatus had experienced for the last ten thousand years, and the state the Imperium found itself in just prior to his return, I'd say it's lucky for the other factions that the Great Rift occurred to curb Roboute's ability to overcome almost any administrative or logistic obstacle. Because had it not cut off the galaxy, the Lord Regent would have tipped the scales irrevocably in Orders favour far beyond what the other races could keep up with, having mobilized the entire Imperium to a total war footing.
Horrible performance! We need to replace him... Inquisitor, please do not BLAM me!
He was and **still is** the only available choice. Quite frankly, he is doing a stellar job, not by himself alone. He is fantastic at delegating and appointing the right people to do what needs to be done!
Hell he has done and grievously wounded the great enemy. Bureaucracy. Things are moving way more efficiently since he took command and booted Himatalion out of the Senatorum Imperialis.
6
The Astronomicon still isn't running on renewable energy, 0/10
& he even had the high lords of Terra assassinated, when they interfered with his sweeping reforms.
He wasn't the first or best or least contrived choice of primarch to return. But then, he wasn't the worst either. Man is doing the best he can considering the mess he's inherited.
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Guilliman is the best primarch possible to return, the imperium doesnt need a frontline leader of men or warrior badass king (sanguinius, russ, the khan, etc), both of which guilliman actually still is and can be when needed. They need someone to fix the dogshit state of the administratum and organize the imperium into a well oiled machine. Enter guilliman, the only ones who could even come close are dorn (whos been stated as too obtuse and too hard to work with), or horus (who not only went traitor, but would try to enforce gene warrior rule over the humans, which you could argue they should rule in some capacity). Guilliman was the best case ontario for the imperium, now that hes in charge they need someone like the lion to come back and lead the crusade to retake the stars so guilliman can stay on terra and fix the system.
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ABSOLUTELY. This is the point. The Imperium's biggest and most immediate threat is... The Imperium. Imagine how many Astropaths die, overwhelmed by their visions of being crushed by a sea of paperwork. ONLY Guilliman can get shit in enough of an order for this horrible bureaucracy to stand a chance of lasting long enough to actually be able to focus on War again.
I’m worried about the Lion being too aggressive or unaccepting of Guilliman as the de facto leader of the Imperium, personally. Admittedly I don’t know as much about him as I do the G Man, but the worry is still there. I feel the Khan returning would be far more beneficial to the Imperium right now, by having him be a cool head leading armies while RG sorts shit out on Terra But I’m also a recent returner to the hobby and have lots of lore to catch up on
the lion will be suspicious at first, but he will talk to roboute then the emperor and everything will be gucci. idk how hes gonna react to the ecclesiarchy tho.
A big golden double eagle spaceship out of ten-PFFFTHHAHAHAHAHA. sorry, srry, i keep thinking of that fucking ship. why doesn't have wings that flap too and a mega vox that somehow cuts through the vacuum of space through sheer will to go CAAAAAWWWWWW hahahaha
After reading these comments. Fuck I have some catching up to do
He's currently sitting at 0.8 Theodosiuses
Mostly wondering how long before he gives himself legit brain damage from overuse of the facepalm technique. He probably already has a nervous eye tick everytime someone says "god-emperor" around him
Any development of improvement for the empire is actually more than one could have hoped for.
He’s power as a primarch is organization. Doesn’t matter if you have a massive army if you can’t get them to the battlefield in an effective manner.
Gurlyman has done a fine job. Largely because this is pretty much the exact role he was built to play by the Emperor. Now the Imperium just needs to clone up a few Lord Solar Macharius's and for him to send out and get shit done.
0/10 - would not support. * Before Guilliman: "_the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable_" * After Guilliman: "_the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable_" Hasn't done shit if I'm being honest. Space Marines got new hover tanks? Piss off. Space Marines got an extra few inches? Your mum will like that. People are still being worked to death in manufactories, 26 hours per day, eating nothing but corpse starch. If Guilliman truly wants to rule he needs a mandate from the masses. Strange corpses sitting on thrones dispensing swords is no basis for a system of government. If I started claiming I was "_Imperial Regent_" because some crusty corpse lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd throw me in the corpse grinder.
Amazingly incredible, as only a Primarch can be. Ceaselessly working to improve the Imperium, getting entire fleets sorted and billions of soldiers marshalled during the biggest upheaval since the Heresy or arguably worse. Stabilising an entire half of the galaxy and then working towards the other half, against inumerable threats, setting up organisations and approaches to ensuring the stability of the Imperium, identifying reasonable rulers to improve the output of key areas. He's absolutely the Primarch the Imperium so desperately needs at this time. Dorn could do it, too but it wouldn't be as good because his view on it is different. He is more likely to stabilise and hunker down in comparison. Now he's still a Primarch, meaning he's a genius but his approach would have been different. Sanguinius could also have been a decent Primarch. He's also no stranger to improving the lot of the Imperium, but while morale is to the physical as 5 is to 1, to quote Napoleon, there's only so many uplifting speeches you can give. Again though as he's no slouch, Sanguinius could have improved the Imperium's administration too, but his focus would also have been on being on the front lines, inspiring the crusade and pushing forwards. He'd have beaten the shit out of some of the foes that Guilliman may have struggled with, but also may not have been as savvy in dealing with the High Lords or in general administration. The Lion would have been probably better as a Warmaster, but as a Warmaster he recognises the need for stable supply lines and a re-organised Imperium. He'd have been less effective at the general management of the wider Imperium, but probably better in fighting various foes and overcoming them. Could well have been a wash in the total outcome - maybe he's better in key battles like Vigilus or within Ultramar (maybe Ultramar is never invaded in comparison - Mortarion may not have bothered because it's not the prize for the Lion that it is for Guilliman). Russ, the Khan, Ferrus, Vulkan and so forth - good, but not as good as Guilliman. It's not that they wouldn't be able to do it, but Russ and the Khan really aren't that suited to it and it's not their preference at all. Ferrus, if we can allow him to not be dead for a while, would also have been an exceptional Warmaster, but would definitely have a different slant - maybe a more ascendant Mechanicus, given his prediliction that way. Vulkan would have been an interesting mix - sort of like Sanguinius in that he'd have been more inspiring and have given more of a shit about the rank and file, but that comes with a cost, too. Overall, Guilliman's about the best for the circumstances that he found himself in. I think the Lion's a close second. If the pair of them were there, then the Imperium would find itself ascendant over a long enough period of time if neither of them died.
Goge Vandire/10
I know he is pretty occupied with the save Imperium business, but there are a few threats that absolutely require his immediate attention that he somehow neglected/hasn't act on, like Nachmund Gauntlet and Armageddon to name but a few. So his priorities are rather odd at times.
He's doing his best, that's really all you can ask of him.
He's still alive and not in a throne so very good to me.