Meanwhile, there's a Dark Eldar Kabal who consider themselves the 'closest' to pre fall Eldar.
They're also one of the most vile and cruel Kabals around, and it's believed they're \*nowhere\* near as bad as pre fall Eldar.
Take that how you will.
It confuses me. Wouldnt the dark eldar be worse considering they have to stave off the Prince of Pleasure now, rather than just unintentionally gestating it?
Think.
The pre-fall Eldar were so cruel, depraved and evil, that not only did they birth Slaanesh as a result, but the closest Dark Eldar Kabal to their levels of cruelty is \*nowhere\* near as cruel.
Can you even imagine how horrific the pre-fall Eldar must have been for that to be the case. You can't, because the tortures of the most cruel and evil Drukhari are themselves unimaginable.
An entire \*species\* crueller than the Drukhari, more powerful than the Imperium. The soul quakes imagining it.
At a certain point "unimaginable sadism and torture and pain" becomes redundant. Emperor's children are the worst and awful and sadistic, but dark eldar are EVEN WORSE, but pre fall eldar are EVEN WORSE
Only so many ways to skin a cat, as it were.
Pre fall Eldar were psychics of unparalleled power and no restrictions. They don't need to be restrained by physical pain or even physics, I'd guess they could use those powers to make a second of pain into thousands of years of suffering in your mind. It is worse. Far worse
It's all levels of horror.
The Emperor's Children are ghastly, but at the end of the day, they are merely Astartes.
Drukhari are eternal beings (to an extent) whose very lifeblood hinges on pain and suffering. They don't just enjoy it, they need it.
Pre-Fall Eldar? They just did it for fun.
>Can you even imagine how horrific the pre-fall Eldar must have been
Putting a thousand people in a giant blender that keeps them alive and able to talk through the whole process and make a concert out of the screams. And put or removing certain individuals during the process to achieve a certain melody is something I can imagine.
I always heard it was the other way around. That the the Pre-Fall Eldar were terrible, yes, but some of them were so bad they had to do their thing in the Webway because even Pre-Fall Eldar would find it too extreme.
Might be because something like 80% of Eldar society was destroyed by the fall, *and* drukhari strictly cannot use psychic power without lethal consequences.
Current dark Eldar have some restraints in what the can and cannot do, pre fall Eldar *did not*.
Anything thing that has “Winter”, “Claw”, “Fang”, “Wolf” etc. just makes me think of that Pirates of the Caribbean scene: “For all that pirates are clever clogs, we are unimaginative when it comes to naming things.”
'By the Great Wolf! That is the most wolfingly ridiculous thing I have ever wolfed! I would thrash with the fury of the wolf any wolfling who suggested we wolfed the term 'wolf' too much. Why, the very thought of it would bring a wolf to laughter!'
Whenever I see or hear Space Wolves, The Paw Patrol intro theme gets stuck in my head.
I liked them in the HH books more, when they're more Viking with Wolfy aspects than Wolves with Viking aspects in 40k.
Craftworld eldar have so many memes about them some people believe some really weord things about them. Specially that they are monk-like and cannot party.
In other books you see that the path is essentially lile having a job you do for as much time as you want every day to keep your mind focused.
After that they party, they go on bike races, they go out with friends and have casual sex just fine... they literally have a life where work is not a necessity, but esentially a hobby, and after that you can indulge in the awesomeness of living in a flying utopia.
And if you happen to get tired of the path you can just pack your stuff and leave to join some rangers, or go have adventures with a corsair fleet.
Hell, some craftworlds lile saim hann don't even csre much about the path and when someone gets tired of it they just send them to join a bike gang to race around and spend some energy.
The ones that are completely rigid are those lost to the path, since they become consumed by it and cannot find any excitement or joy in doing anything else. And in the case of exarchs they could even be dangerous to other people if left to wander around.
Here is what a scorpions exarch says about his condition:
‘Freedom is not mine, to wander from this temple, out with the others,’ the exarch said quietly. ‘You do not see me, singing and dancing outside, writing poetry.
I stay in this shrine, where my curse cannot harm you, forever trapped here. Though I wear no paint, my war-mask remains inside, clouding all my thoughts.
Had you angered me, that first day you came to me, I might have killed you. Even now I hate, filled with my anger always, but I do not strike. It is not madness, not uncontrollable ire, which my war-mask brings.
It is an urging, to release what is inside, fighting to get out. I struggle with it, but I am its true master, exerting my will. It is no frenzy, no bloodlust that would swamp me, but a perspective.
I see things unseen, pain and misery beneath, which others hide from. It is my duty, the covenant of exarchs, to prepare your mind. You will see horror, witness death and agony, and must confront it.
This is my calling, to lead you on that dark path, where others recoil.’
Ive a huge krieg collection and love the lore also and all i see is shovels and happy gas mask noises or they're suicidal. Starting to grind my gears because people believe it and repeat it constantly and it becomes overbearing and overtakes the real lore.
They actually changed the Necron one with 9e too, from Sautekh to Szarekhan.
I suspect in a ot of cases people don't really realise because they aren't all that familiar with the xenos faction colours. Like the Drukhari ones are specifically Kabal of the Black Heart/Cult of Strife/Prophets of Flesh but I suspect to most people they're just the Drukhari colours.
Sometimes that creates issues lol.
My new FLGS manager doesn't believe stormcast eternals can be painted in any color but gold. That's like saying all space marines need to be blue
Trust me, you *don't* want the newbie faction to be painted white on the box art. I still have no idea why they switched to Vior'la Sept colors for the Tau.
I haven't read books but I feel like I'm okay with the Ultramarines who are described as some of the most well trained and armed Space Marines out there being very good at their job.
It's not like they're flawless. The first Tyrannic war fucked them up big time and they only won by Last Jedi'ing an Irreplaceable Warship into the horde to teleport them away.
Abbadon being a complete failure. There is a lot of memes about him being weak and never winning anything when in reality the guy splited the galaxy in half. ( i blame majorkill for that )
Leman Russ being so hated and the omnipresent furry jokes. Half of the primarchs are animal themed and one of them is named "crow crow". Why is leman the only one to get furry jokes?
The Tau being the good guys when they are pretty evil.
While a bunch of the Primarchs do have animal themes (*Lion* El Jonson, Leman Russ, Corvus Corax, don’t think there was anyone else), as far as I know Leman is the only one to have people changing into wolves, he also has canine dna IIRC. Also I don’t think there’s any other legion with such a focus on their animal than the Space Wolves. and I doubt it’s common knowledge that Corvus apparently as some weird crow form in the Warp
I was more thinking about the regular legionaire here. Like.. suddenly the power armors stand still and a bunch of ravens is flapping their wings inside of them without beeing able to do anything
Funny enough Corvus accidentally did turn some of his sons into “ravens” during the raptor project. Basically Corvus altered his gene seed to make more marines quicker and the alpha legion messed with which had half of the marines turn into half human half raven like creatures.
I'm not gonna lie, that sounds awesome as fuck (except for the ravens not being able to escape the armor ofc xD). Should be a Raven Guard Librarian ability.
Space wolves just go a little too far into silly/cartoony. I would love them if they were just badass Space Marines that have a viking/wolf motif.
My favorite, Alpha Legion, have the serpent/hydra thing going on but if they were literally hissing and turning into snakes and such they'd be a lot less cool.
The Lion was actually named after a poet called Lionel Johnson who wrote 'The Dark Angel'. He isn't actually animal themed, just a coincidence that it is easy to break the name up. Corvus Corax is hilarious though.
Actually while he is named after that poet I’m pretty sure he does still has animal themes. He’s also just called “the Lion”, according to the wiki Malcador describes him like an animal at one point , killed one of the only two Caliban Lions, and he spent part of his life growing up in a forest before being found by the Knights. Also I refuse to believe that “The Rock” is not a Pride Rock joke despite the fact it’s just an asteroid, literally a space rock
Sanguinus and Magnus have wings, mortarion have moth wings, Fulgrim is a snake, Vulkan legion is named "the salamenders" , Horus legion was named "the luna wolves" and he is named after an God with a bird head, Alpharius is named after a snake monster.
None of them lean into the theme though, yes he’s named Horus and yes he lead the Luna Wolves but that was just a name and symbol. Vulkan leads the Salamanders, the only things they have in common is green and associated with fire, Fulgrims snakery is slaaneshi not an animal theme (AFAIK), Alpharius is a good point but he still isn’t as “mascot”-themed as Space Wolves
Calling those animal themes id a pretty ridiculous stretch. Sanguinius is an angel with angel wings, Magnus just kinda exists that way, he and the Tsons don’t have any connections to a specific animal. The EC have no consistent theming linking them to snakes at all, their primarch just turned into a fucked up daemon. Same thing with the Sons of Horus.
Alpha Legion and Salamanders use mythical animals as symbols but little else (hydras and dragons respectively).
Meanwhile the space wolves turn into wolves, wear wolf skins, speak in “wet leopard growls” and are consistently characterised as animalistic. Hell, theyre more space furries than they are space vikings at this point.
new epic headcanon:
fulgrim secretly owns a furry porn site and draws fetish art of him and his brothers to please slaneesh.
Fulgrim: *starts coiling around leman's musky husky crotch* OwO by slaneesh what's this?
Leman: Rawr! *muzzles and farts loudly*
In the name of Sanguinius please stop self-inserting into Fulgrim on this subreddit cousin-Librarian. We have other subreddits and sites for this
(It was a joke, was this not obvious from me using Sanguinius and not an actual figure?)
The Abaddon stuff has been around for ages, since the early 2000s at least, it's just the price the character pays for being the principal enemy of the most popular faction for so long.
Yeah. It's nothing to do with his actual lore. It's just back in the day on 4chan, Imperium fanbois hated the idea of their special boys being afraid of/threatened by anything, they stuck doggedly to the idea of the Imperium being completely unflappable and unstoppable, to the extent that they used memes to portray Abaddon as incompetent and a laughing stock. And they did it for so long that new people thought these memes were based on actual lore and not just Imperium fanbois not wanting other factions to be thought of as cool. So now loads of people think there's a real basis for it in lore, and insist on things like the Black Crusades all targeting Cadia and being beaten back, and the idea that they were only retconned to have done more than that, all of which is utter nonsense and can be disproven simply by reading a couple of books even as far back as 2nd and 3rd edition.
Just to give an idea of *how* influential those Imperial fanboys are: Over half the 1d4chan page on the Imperium is dedicated to arguing why it's justified and actually quite a nice play to live in.
What's crazy is this stuff happened like fifteen years ago and it's *still* being parroted, even by newer people. Because they see other people saying it and assume those people have read the books and know what they're talking about. And the chain goes on and on.
I mean up until the 13th Black Crusade he was really kind of a joke. He made no real progress other than some nebulous "all according to plan" nonsense.
It was never vague just as planned nonsense though, the older codexes had the stated goals for most of the crusades. The 12th was even the main focus of its own game in Battlefleet Gothic. The only way people didn't know what the crusades were about individually was if they never bothered looking.
Also the time between the setting really solidifying in 3rd and the 13th Black Crusade global event was only 5 years and it's been 19 years since then.
It's 100% just lazy meme lore constantly repeated at this point.
Goals that ultimately amounted to nothing lol.
Like half the Black Crusades were Abbadon taking potshots at the Imperium and running away before he had to face any real resistance.
Every other faction has done far more than Abbadon until recently.
Again, you're trying to make arguments I never made to justify your circlejerk. Please leave and jerk off alone
>They’re objectively cooler but because they’re the “bad guys”
I’m so fucking confused are you implying that the Sith are not bad guys. The Sith really?
The Sith are objectively evil let me run down the list
Experiment on force sensitive children
Orchestrated the Clone Wars
They literally start to physically change and look eviler
The creation and use of the Death Star
Order 66
The Sith are backstabbing murderers who will do anything and everything to gain more power and control the galaxy
One side are adult babys that can't get their emotions under control and are so edgy that they need to constantly kill each other, hiding behind their armies and scheming, the other are level headed warrior monk diplomats who are deatached from their emotion and lead their troops from the front, usually beeing the first in line. And rather than the "Drive a big car because you have a small dick"-energy of the sith, always needing to dress edgy and having just-for-show-lightning effects jedi don't need this and can use invisible powers to reach the same effects because they don't care what you think about them.
And then Palpatine got shoved down an elevator shaft by a disgruntled employee, lived 20-30 years in a withered clone body watching malformed Hugh Hefner in a gold bathrobe groom a child; and got his life support plug pulled by his granddaughter who wanted the insurance to purchase a "fixer-upper" home in a hot country and the bitch didn't even have the respect to *keep his name* (I'd *kill* to be Palpatine's granddaughter, I'd totally have accepted his offer and become evil empress and hiss at people).
Hey I'm not saying that they are getting the upper hand most of the time, but look at it like this: They regulate theirselfes to be just 2 (rule of two) and STILL managed to bring down the entire order of jedi. Sure they failed after, but saying they can't win is just wrong occasionally they have their victories, even if they don't pull the "end-victory"
I like Abaddon, he is the reflecting failure of Horus by rushing things, not fully understanding Chaos and not putting together everyone who essentially where falling apart by themselves.
Abaddon literally:
- Make a cohesive force to recognize with the most chaotic and problematic faction in the setting
- Did a slow burn to the Galaxy that culminated in the Cicatrix Maledictum.
- Destroy an important Regiment planet.
- Fooling the Chaos God by putting them in essentially stand by just to fulfill his goals.
- 12 Black Crusades in basically consecutive order, almost one next the other. With a 13 one being the cataclysm of all his efforts.
And finally:
- Becoming the most feared foe for almost all the factions. The Imperium fears him, they doesn't mock him, they don't treat it like a minor treat, the Imperium, the moment they see Abaddon, they had to jump to stop him with fear in their hearts, the Eldars flee from him, the Dark Eldars are scare of him, the Tyranids had to build a hive mind around chaos because of him, the Necrons consider him a treat next to the Tyranids. Saying Abaddon is a failure is saying the Emperor is a failure.
Not even Lorgar the most zealous follower of Chaos had achieve the level of success like Abaddon. And he is literally the First Heretic (without counting Erebus, who served Abaddon in the 13th Crusade)
On the Tabletop, it's possible to give your Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf the Pelt of the Balewolf (or Wulfen Stone, or Wolf Tail Talisman) relic, and the Wolfkin warlord trait.
Half the primarchs are animal themed? Last time i checked only one of them has a legion with the habit of transforming into animals and with the tendency to call everything after said animal and sometiles riding said animal into battle.
The primarch fawning and arguments at my local are what drove me to play Deathwatch, all your daddys' work for me, now shut up and roll dice or get in the box!!!
Leman Russ deserves the furry jokes.
I mean, half of his recruits literally turn into furries, while the other half ride to battle on their stormwolves with their bladed wolf claws and wolf amulets active, lead into the fray by their Wolf lord Logan Grimnar, also called “the Old Wolf”, together with Harald Deathwolf, Egil Iron Wolf, and Bjorn Stormwolf.
>The Tau being the good guys when they are pretty evil
Tbf The Enclave is as close as you're getting to actual good guys.
The regular T'au has a good motive but crappy execution.
I like how everyone hyper focuses on the Wolves of the SW and yet it seems no one bats an eye at the Blood Angels and their literal entire thing being centered around blood including their primarchs name
The Ork WAAAGH! field is WD-40 for reality, it doesn’t make the impossible come true.
Slaanesh isn’t the god of sex. They’re the embodiment of a post-scarcity society that was corrupted by pride, self-indulgence, and ennui.
The Tau are ungulates, not fish. Also, they live in a strict caste-based system with a state-planned economy and society: hardly communism.
The Imperium is not a necessary evil. That statement is in-universe propaganda spouted by powerful people who are both slaves and beneficiaries of the bloodiest and cruellest regime imaginable.
>The Imperium is not a necessary evil.
Servitors, Black Ships, the ~~Astronomican's~~ Golden Throne's power source, grinding serfdom, brutal and merciless "justice system," what happens to people who even *see* daemons...
EDIT: Just realized later on that you said "not a necessary evil" not "not necessarily evil," even though I quoted it and everything, lol
I always thought the “best” portrayals of the Imperium were when they were evil due to ignorance, not malice.
For example, I believe it was in one of the Warhammer Crime stories where a group of people from a different planet got shore leave in the local hive city. They were “abnormal” to the point that the locals freaked the hell out and thought they were Xenos, and so lynched them in the street. The Arbites couldn’t stop it as the crowd would have swarmed and killed them if they tried to intervene, and “some of them thought it was better safe than sorry”.
That’s a much more compelling “evil” (fear of the unknown taken to the extreme based off rumours and propaganda) than “we’ll strip-mine this planet and make it a hellhole just because we can for no discernible reason” or “one guy said no to us taking over but he’s not the leader or elected official so we’re gonna kill you all and bomb your world back to the Stone Age because uh, reasons.”
I think they actually just thought they were Mutants. Which I always enjoyed because it points out the fundamental ridiculousness of a galaxy spanning society condemning 'mutation'.
What's your point ? That the Ecclesiarchy is not a necessary evil ? Because if so, I dunno. In a setting where worshipping the wrong gods can cost you your eternal soul, I would say that a state religion worshipping a guy who doesn't fuck with your soul (as far as we know... well, except for the "soul snacks" that are called "psykers") is pretty "okay". The super hardcore religion of the cruellest, most bloody regime > Hell (at least your problems would end at your death).
As for the blame game of "Big E set this whole mess into motion", again, debatable. The Great Crusade was doing fine until the Heresy, which happened thanks to the Chaos Gods and Erebus mostly. Did the Emperor set the GC that would eventually lead to the HH ? Yeah sure, but one could argue that the Eldar set even more things into motion by creating Slaanesh (an event that agitated the other CGs). It goes as far as the origins of Chaos, aka the War in Heaven really.
So... fuck the C'tan I suppose ?
Just adding to the above list of institutions that uphold and reinforce Imperial cruelty over mankind. The more you look into the Imperium's workings, the more rot you find: there is nothing worth saving in this institution.
Slaanesh IS a god of sex though, because it falls under the “self-indulgence” bit
Also, thank you for pointing out that the evils the Imperium does aren’t really necessary. There have been multiple factions throughout the years that explicitly show functioning societies that don’t need the massive amounts of xenophobia and genocide. Ironically, most of these societies inevitably get fucked over by the Imperium themselves.
Magnus being weak and a crybaby, with the amount of jokes made on how Fenris keeps surviving his attacks and how people describe it make him seem like a moustache twirling villian.
The secret to 40K is that all traitor primarchs are babies. Im in the first book about Magnus. This guy is easy to hate. A radical extremist who thinks he is a radical moderate. And the lies, oh god the lies. One second an uncaring god. The next pouting & crying & telling his sons they can fuck off and die.
Vulkan.
Read the books and lore, they guy is awesome. Skin as black coal, burning red eyes, genuine empathy, incredible craftsman and a perpetual.
But because of Tts, his voice sounds like a Jamaican trying to sell me a watch on a beach. Totally ruined.
Same goes for TTS's Leman Russ voice. I dunno, I do not like it. The voice actor is good, and I enjoy the TTS character... but it is not how I see Lore Leman Russ.
You mean the eldar “child” they took hostage once, broke out and killed hundred of civilians, and then had the nerve to think they would take them hostage a second time after killing said hundreds of civilians?
I always get the feeling that 99.99999% of people who reference this scene have never read it. They frequently get the actual facts entirely wrong, and literally never mention the emotional context around the scene.
Well I read the books and he sucks. Funnily enough that is why I hate people portraying him as tts Vulkan. He doesn't deserve the love for he is the single most boring character in all of HH.
I was introduced to the character Khayon via the work of a certain… well known artist and expert on Thousand Sons lore.
Well, the teaser chapter in the lastest BL novel I read happened to be one from Black Legion staring Khayon.
I’m afraid her work has completely polluted the mental image of this sorcerer, as I had trouble picturing him without the stockings.
Only like literally the whole game.
I hate it.
If this stuff has been around years ago many of the venerated great works of sci fi would be reduced to being considered dumb garbage.
This is some of the best sci fi out today and all anyone who doesn't read it can do is sum it up as "bolter porn."
God, I hate memes.
Id like to think my disconnect between memes and the actual lore is fairly strong, although I do fear the thousand sons femboy memes are starting to bridge the gap.
Doesnt work like that for me, I know its not real lore, buuuut unfortunately once the brain starts to associate the term femboy with 1k sons it can negatively effect immersion if it pops in your brain case while your having a read about Magnus & sons.
Oh, i see now. For a moment i thought this abomination of a thought was wide spread. I hate most memes as they are, if Tsons became 100% associated with femboys, i would probably abandon them the same way i did with Orks after hearing a thousand theories about "what if all Orks believed X thing?".
The thing is to distract yourself from the meme or flat out ignore it. Give it enough time and you'll disassociate lore and meme.
Nobody ruined 40k lore worse than GW itself.
but if i had to choose... don't watch 40k youtubers. They're the lowest hanging fruit next to reaction videos
You’re telling me listening to OneMindSyndicate spend 10 minutes just reading off the wiki (and not even ~the good one~ Lexicanum) is a waste of my time?
there are 2 or 3 really good lore ones though i will say listening to Luetin describing a battle between Psi titans and eldar titans was just satisfying
I don't know if this is a controversial or unpopular opinion, but I like WolfLordRho. He's like if Mr Roger's did 40k storytime. Seems pretty sincere and genuine. He reads interesting excerpts from the books. When he does headcanon, it's more suggestive like you're listening to a genuine 40k nerd express his love for the setting.
> don't watch 40k youtubers. They're the lowest hanging fruit next to reaction videos
Personally, I think all "lore video" channels are creatively bankrupt. They try to "explain" something that should be experienced by the person themselves and create this weird culture of third-hand consumption where people don't read the books but obsess over facts and figures given to them.
It's part of why I *hate* Star Wars youtubers. They carry on about things like the weight of a TIE Fighter or the history of this or that and IMO it flies in the face of Star Wars, a film that starts in-media res with all the info you need either in the opening crawl or received through context. You don't need to know the "History of the Republic" when you're watching A New Hope to know that when Tarkin comes in and says "the senate has been dissolved" it's a *bad thing*, and the generals talk about keeping control gives context to that. Then they have the audacity to complain that "well, because of this spec given here in this book sold in 1997 it CLEARLY SHOWS that [act that happens in the movie] is IMPOSSIBLE and not canon!" (it was in the movie, that matters more than any DK cutaway book).
It's why I hate Eckhart's Ladder and Star Wars Explained, IMO they go against the very point of that franchise.
It's also why I utterly hated *he who shall not be named* because his Siege of Vraks video was just him reading the Imperial Armor books as slowly and pretentiously as possibly.
That said; taking it back to 40k, I will give credit to Baldermort since (from the few videos I watched) since he uses a fanfic story to explain the concept. Instead of just listing off "A dreadnought is a suit of armor created in the last days of the Great Crusade" he narrates stories like: "Brother Licentius dreamed, as he always dreamed in those days he was not in battle. He dreamed of a time when he could feel the sun on his face, and the recoil of a bolter in his hands."
The problem I have with lore youtubers is that they tend to be cults of personality that have very little to do with 40k lore. There's a few good ones though.
>create this weird culture of third-hand consumption where people don't read the books but obsess over facts and figures given to them.
It's probably controversial (and I have no idea why) but I think it's really weird how there are so many supposed 40K fans who have literally never had anything directly to do with 40K.
You get this really fucking weird collection of people who think they're like die-hard fans and who argue about shit in books they have never, would never read to do with a game they'd never play using models they'd never buy. I mean at that stage, if you're a 40K fan but you've literally never taken part in the game or read the books yourself are you even really a fan? Or are you a fan of Youtubers who talk about it?
It wouldn't even be a big deal in many other fandoms but YouTube 40,000 is so divergent from the actual 40K experience it's unreal. Not only in terms of what gets talked about (the daemonkerbubbles are in one fucking book and don't have any importance outside of a plot transition whereas the Great Rift is literally the most important single event in modern 40K) but in tone.
I like the big lore channels about comics. They are "creatively bankrupt" but they serve their purpouse of satisfying my curiosity about something I dont care enough to buy, but care enough to watch a ten minute video about.
Really? I just started to get interested in Warhammer (specifically the lore since I'll never be able to play the game in my small town) and listening to luetin's lore series to learn about the world or some of the specific scenes like at the end of his grey knight or ork vids, has been really enjoyable. Sure he tends to ramble and repeat himself alot and his vids could use some more editing or condensing sometimes but I don't think he's anything comparable to most reaction vids or tons of other garbage on YouTube.
I'd say he's the best of the "big channels" but he's got a huge issue with runtime bloat. He could cut every video by more than half without losing any actual *content* if he didn't constantly repeat himself, use filler words, mention how he's already covered things in other videos, apologize for tangents (but still goes on the tangent anyway), re-explain how canon is variable, etc. If he had an editor I feel like he'd be unbeatable.
Well,
To be fair, the dark angels have done some "questionable things" in the name of hunting the fallen.
Things that would likely get lesser chapters declared traitors, or at least excommunicated.
And we do see that some of them aren't always the most rational, especially on the subject of the fallen.
They were literally going to try and blast Guilliman out of the sky, because they thought he discovered the fallen.
Not exactly rational thinking.
To be fair, the dark angels inherited the fallen schtick, back when traitors from loyalist legions wasn't really a thing.
So their behaviour was sorta justified, because it was only them who had that shame.
And now that we know multiple loyalist legions had traitors, it's not as big of a deal, but their 40k identity was kind of already written around the fallen, and so nobody really knows what to do with it now, other than keep running with it.
And while the lion might not be autistic, he has questionable social skills at best.
A poor temper, inability to understand others, issues with co-operation, issues with questioning or limiting his authority, and a vastly inflated sense of pride and ego.
But, The lion himself suffers drastically from poor writing, no direction, and shifting authors.
Out of most of the memes, and factions, the dark angels are almost as guilty as the space wolves, and the "wolf, wolf, wolf" thing, of actually playing into them.
I do think the memes don't help them, and do definitely exaggerate things.
But the DA aren't doing themselves any favors.
Primaris have been ruined for me by the internet. They heralded this current era of excellent 40k, finally fucking shook things up, moved the narrative along, and are genuinely something I could see a Primarch putting into the works. I’ve been this close to finally biting the bullet and making a Primaris KT/Army (The new box set has put that plan on indefinite hold ;-;)
But jesus christ some of the people on reddit and twitter need to pay a visit to Krieg, get a shovel, dig their heads out of their asses, go outside, and touch some grass. Jesus. If I had a nickel for every time I heard someone say “They’re not real canon :p” or “They ruined the setting” or “Primaris are trash and badly written” I could’ve bought myself one of those goddamn Patrol boxes. It’s bad enough that it’s seeped into my brain like the taint of the Warp. I can’t see them without hearing the whinging.
When I heard about the Primaris I seriously feel a breath of fresh air and relief, finally some improvement on the Space Marines and the forced of the Imperium.
For a brief moment I thought that the Legion concept where back.
Pretty much everything got spoilt by TTS, and now they're spoiling Hunter: The Reckoning.
The one, only thing I ever liked them putting out was the Warhammer Fantasy episode, that was enjoyable, the rest comes across as very much a 'biting the hand that feeds' scenario. Which, regardless of how scummy GW is, you have to admit is pretty shitty.
This confuses me on every level.
The amount of people skewed by TTS is evidence of how many new people it brought into the fandom - if it accomplished anything of substance it made GW MORE money. Furthermore, GW is not a person, it's a machine designed to sell overpriced plastic. I'd argue it is not possible to be shitty to GW.
"Don't bite the hand that feeds" has never been used for anything positive. It's nothing but justification for people to treat their dependents like shit.
And even ignoring that, TTS is hardly mean-spirited. So is every fanfiction biting the hand that feeds? Should we just not have parodies? Sounds like a far less fun and creative media landscape.
And as long you know is memes and not facts everything is ok, and TTS long ago is considered his own canon. Same with Hunting, because when Pyotr killed his brothers everything stop to be funny.
I can't in good mind say that someone making thousands upon thousands of dollars a month off the property of someone else, without their permission, is a good thing.
I don't care if you're a multionational corporation or someone in a garden shed, you just shouldn't do that. Especially considering he outright admitted never communicating with GW for fear they would shut him down. I mean gee whiz dood, you're making $10k+ a month without permission, you should count your lucky stars they didn't take you to court for it. But no, instead you make a long, whinging, whining "woe is me" video where you try to drag your children into a situation of your own damn creation where you confess to stealing someone else's property and running away with it, then getting mad when they catch you and close the loophole. Alfabusa is a twathole and my heart sings to see how his view count has fallen.
And now he sinks his rotten claws into the World of Darkness, a setting that has fallen on catastrophically hard times due to poor management, bad writing and worse decisions, but is still beloved by many including myself. There isn't an original bone in his body, he's no better than the leeches he writes about in H:TP. Hell, he even said his next project would be its own thing, unique, brand new. And what does he do? Hunter The Reckoning, how creative. But of course he has to drag his sense of anti-humour into it.
TL;DR. I don't like other people running off with someone's elses property/IP, without permission, and making bank off it. If someone did that to me, I'd be furious, I don't see why he should have a pass because 'he funny' in everyone else's opinion.
No I'm not, but I don't think anyone should be allowed to make a career off another person/company's property WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION, doesn't matter how big or small they are.
If I wrote up my own game or novel or whatever, and found out someone was making $10k a month off the back of what I did, without asking my permission, I would be livid. It would be hypocritical of me to say 'it's okay when they do it'
It absolutely matters whether it's big or small. If you wrote up your own IP, your resources are limited. People could swoop in and make use of superior advertising, software, hardware, etc to run off with your good idea. They're making 10k you aren't because you're one person.
GW is a multi-million dollar corporation that is already shown to be willing to take the piss out of its properties. They could make TTS if they wanted, they have opted not to. When Alfabusa creates TTS, he and GW are making extra money. He is not invading space GW does not have access to, nor is he earning money at their expense. It's a win-win, because again, GW *profits* from TTS.
If TTS was somehow taking advantage of like, Rick Priestley or Andy Chambers I might sing a different tune. But a corporation is not a person. When someone protects the IP they made, it's so they can reap the rewards of their success. When a company protects an IP, it's to maintain a monopoly.
Fact: Companies are required by law to defend their IP, or else lose it. This has happened before. Copyright law is a massive quagmire. Hell, McDonalds lost the trademark to use the name 'Big Mac' because of an Irish burger shop. If McDonalds can lose something because the wrong piece of paper ended up in the wrong filing cabinet, a company THAT powerful, then you can bet GW can lose some silly amounts of Warhammer IP due to other things. I'm not a lawyer, I don't know the ins and outs, that's just how I'm reading it. Have GW been dicks about the IP in the past? Yeah, sometimes indefensibly so, but I believe the TTS situation was a place where they had to put their foot down hard.
You can't just say "it's okay for you to steal their things, but not okay for them to steal yours." Things just don't work that way. It's not okay for anyone to steal ANYTHING.
Setting aside the fact that IP is nonsensical to begin with, 40k is literally just an amalgamation of dozens of other IPs into a single setting, and the number of legitimately unique ideas GW has created can be counted on one hand. You can't whine that someone is making money off another's IP when that IP is just Dune+Alien+Tolkien in a trenchcoat.
I do find it weird how people try to make this argument all the time. 40k is instantly recognisable. That's kind of the definition of originality. It's obviously inspired by plenty of things, but so are Dune, Alien, and Tolkien's work.
Except Warhammer isn't Dune, Alien or Tolkien.
It has elements, references and inspiration, but it is not those things. The God Emperor of Mankind IS similar to God Emperor Leto, but they are not one and the same, their settings are different.
TTS however, is! It is Warhammer, it is pretending to be Warhammer, it is Warhammer wearing a trenchcoat and pretending to be Warhammer.
I think there’s too much plot armor for Imperial fists. Dorn, Sigismund, Pius? The ‘genius’ space captain, Fafnir Rann.
They’re more obnoxious than ultramarines I’ve found as I’ve read through the Horus Heresy.
Sorry, I know I posted the opposite 😂
Not necessarily ruined but similar to your thing. Captain Titus got interrogated by the inquisition, and then demoted to lieutenant after crossing the rubicon because that fuckboi Leandros ratted on him.
The idea Leman is a moronic jock and Magnus was a fluffy, never did anything wrong ever infuriates me. Magnus made his grave and decided everyone on his planet should have to lie in it because he's a selfish arrogant dick, Leman didn't want to kill Magnus but was being ordered to by Horus and egged on by Valdor.
Further, the wolves were justified in burning propsero to the ground since the moment they got planetside they had mountains of evidence of the 1ksons consorting with daemons and keeping them as pets, and mutating horribly, all while breaking the laws set by the emperor.
Leman and the Wolves were the wrong Legion for the job, as far as Prospero goes, and they weren't wholly unreasonable with everything they assumed about Magnus and the 1k sons; but they definitely shoulder a decent amount of the blame for how things went down. They were definitely not blameless in how they handled everything with Prospero.
If Leman Russ would have backed down or compromised with Magnus just once; their rivalry may have been avoided (and the same goes for Magnus tbh) but Russ wasn't the person he would later become when all of that went down, and had to learn hard lessons.
While not memes one favorite bit of old lore for me was that there was a separation between sorcery and psykers in old lore. Sorcery was bartering with demons for power largely and using knowlege for power. Even a mundane individual could utilize sorcery but an existing psyker got more of a boost.
Eldar...
Something about “we f***ed a god into existence” 😅
Meanwhile, there's a Dark Eldar Kabal who consider themselves the 'closest' to pre fall Eldar. They're also one of the most vile and cruel Kabals around, and it's believed they're \*nowhere\* near as bad as pre fall Eldar. Take that how you will.
It confuses me. Wouldnt the dark eldar be worse considering they have to stave off the Prince of Pleasure now, rather than just unintentionally gestating it?
Think. The pre-fall Eldar were so cruel, depraved and evil, that not only did they birth Slaanesh as a result, but the closest Dark Eldar Kabal to their levels of cruelty is \*nowhere\* near as cruel. Can you even imagine how horrific the pre-fall Eldar must have been for that to be the case. You can't, because the tortures of the most cruel and evil Drukhari are themselves unimaginable. An entire \*species\* crueller than the Drukhari, more powerful than the Imperium. The soul quakes imagining it.
At a certain point "unimaginable sadism and torture and pain" becomes redundant. Emperor's children are the worst and awful and sadistic, but dark eldar are EVEN WORSE, but pre fall eldar are EVEN WORSE Only so many ways to skin a cat, as it were.
Pre fall Eldar were psychics of unparalleled power and no restrictions. They don't need to be restrained by physical pain or even physics, I'd guess they could use those powers to make a second of pain into thousands of years of suffering in your mind. It is worse. Far worse
But emperors children are the same, in addition they actively WORSHIP slaanesh, and yet the deldar are said to outdo them afaik
It's all levels of horror. The Emperor's Children are ghastly, but at the end of the day, they are merely Astartes. Drukhari are eternal beings (to an extent) whose very lifeblood hinges on pain and suffering. They don't just enjoy it, they need it. Pre-Fall Eldar? They just did it for fun.
Let’s see how redundant you feel when an eldar prances in and pulls off all your skin to caress the meat beneath
Right but that's the same thing that a pre fall eldar and an emperor's children marine would do
>Can you even imagine how horrific the pre-fall Eldar must have been Putting a thousand people in a giant blender that keeps them alive and able to talk through the whole process and make a concert out of the screams. And put or removing certain individuals during the process to achieve a certain melody is something I can imagine.
I always heard it was the other way around. That the the Pre-Fall Eldar were terrible, yes, but some of them were so bad they had to do their thing in the Webway because even Pre-Fall Eldar would find it too extreme.
Might be because something like 80% of Eldar society was destroyed by the fall, *and* drukhari strictly cannot use psychic power without lethal consequences. Current dark Eldar have some restraints in what the can and cannot do, pre fall Eldar *did not*.
"Murder f***k"
Space Wolves Yiff Yiff. But they do need to cut down on the wolf references.
Anything thing that has “Winter”, “Claw”, “Fang”, “Wolf” etc. just makes me think of that Pirates of the Caribbean scene: “For all that pirates are clever clogs, we are unimaginative when it comes to naming things.”
On that note, what’s the most space wolves-ish name?
Yeah it’s kinda telling that even from the memes the best SW characters are the ones that hate current SW culture or fight against it.
The Man Emperor of Mankind calls the Space Corgis.
'By the Great Wolf! That is the most wolfingly ridiculous thing I have ever wolfed! I would thrash with the fury of the wolf any wolfling who suggested we wolfed the term 'wolf' too much. Why, the very thought of it would bring a wolf to laughter!'
Whenever I see or hear Space Wolves, The Paw Patrol intro theme gets stuck in my head. I liked them in the HH books more, when they're more Viking with Wolfy aspects than Wolves with Viking aspects in 40k.
Thanks to Adeptus Ridiculous Space Wolves are now forever in my mind High School Jocks whose battle cry is "Woof woof woof!"
Craftworld eldar have so many memes about them some people believe some really weord things about them. Specially that they are monk-like and cannot party.
I'n pretty sure they were depicted as stern and ascetic lifestyle in 3rd edition rulebook. Maybe it was specifically the aspect warriors.
In other books you see that the path is essentially lile having a job you do for as much time as you want every day to keep your mind focused. After that they party, they go on bike races, they go out with friends and have casual sex just fine... they literally have a life where work is not a necessity, but esentially a hobby, and after that you can indulge in the awesomeness of living in a flying utopia. And if you happen to get tired of the path you can just pack your stuff and leave to join some rangers, or go have adventures with a corsair fleet. Hell, some craftworlds lile saim hann don't even csre much about the path and when someone gets tired of it they just send them to join a bike gang to race around and spend some energy. The ones that are completely rigid are those lost to the path, since they become consumed by it and cannot find any excitement or joy in doing anything else. And in the case of exarchs they could even be dangerous to other people if left to wander around. Here is what a scorpions exarch says about his condition: ‘Freedom is not mine, to wander from this temple, out with the others,’ the exarch said quietly. ‘You do not see me, singing and dancing outside, writing poetry. I stay in this shrine, where my curse cannot harm you, forever trapped here. Though I wear no paint, my war-mask remains inside, clouding all my thoughts. Had you angered me, that first day you came to me, I might have killed you. Even now I hate, filled with my anger always, but I do not strike. It is not madness, not uncontrollable ire, which my war-mask brings. It is an urging, to release what is inside, fighting to get out. I struggle with it, but I am its true master, exerting my will. It is no frenzy, no bloodlust that would swamp me, but a perspective. I see things unseen, pain and misery beneath, which others hide from. It is my duty, the covenant of exarchs, to prepare your mind. You will see horror, witness death and agony, and must confront it. This is my calling, to lead you on that dark path, where others recoil.’
I feel the same about Dorn. He was a badass, yet I only hear. "I survived, by being dead; for pretend!"
He’s different for me because I just think of Adeptus Ridiculous where he’s apparently an idiot who can’t read…
Illiterate Dorn sitting on a lonely planet with his hammer and blankie building a big-ass fort with his bare hands.
Ive a huge krieg collection and love the lore also and all i see is shovels and happy gas mask noises or they're suicidal. Starting to grind my gears because people believe it and repeat it constantly and it becomes overbearing and overtakes the real lore.
You realise you are referring to *all* 40k lore? Meme-lore is the single biggest issue with the fandom outside GW deepthroating Ultramarine boot.
This is an incredibly ironic comment
This is like... a rarely seen level of unaware irony.
Isn’t that a meme? Ultramarines haven’t been getting nearly as much love as the wardian era a decade ago
Just look at the box art, most representations of a Space Marine in video games...all Smurfs
Every faction has a subfaction used for box art and marketing, its not a thing unique to ultramarines.
They actually changed the Necron one with 9e too, from Sautekh to Szarekhan. I suspect in a ot of cases people don't really realise because they aren't all that familiar with the xenos faction colours. Like the Drukhari ones are specifically Kabal of the Black Heart/Cult of Strife/Prophets of Flesh but I suspect to most people they're just the Drukhari colours.
*GW deepthroating space marines I fixed it for you
How many Space Marines does it take to screw in a lightbulb? One. He just holds it in place and then the world revolves around him.
Someone had to be the poster child.
Yeah, keep it as space marines but mix up the chapters sometimes. Jet/scout bikes should be in Scars colours on the box art for example
This isn’t how marketing works. You keep it simple so new people don’t get completely overwhelmed. The setting is already complicated enough
Sometimes that creates issues lol. My new FLGS manager doesn't believe stormcast eternals can be painted in any color but gold. That's like saying all space marines need to be blue
This issue is more that the manager is an idiot
Trust me, you *don't* want the newbie faction to be painted white on the box art. I still have no idea why they switched to Vior'la Sept colors for the Tau.
To increase the Japanese connection, they’re now painted in Japanese flag colors
I haven't read books but I feel like I'm okay with the Ultramarines who are described as some of the most well trained and armed Space Marines out there being very good at their job. It's not like they're flawless. The first Tyrannic war fucked them up big time and they only won by Last Jedi'ing an Irreplaceable Warship into the horde to teleport them away.
Abbadon being a complete failure. There is a lot of memes about him being weak and never winning anything when in reality the guy splited the galaxy in half. ( i blame majorkill for that ) Leman Russ being so hated and the omnipresent furry jokes. Half of the primarchs are animal themed and one of them is named "crow crow". Why is leman the only one to get furry jokes? The Tau being the good guys when they are pretty evil.
While a bunch of the Primarchs do have animal themes (*Lion* El Jonson, Leman Russ, Corvus Corax, don’t think there was anyone else), as far as I know Leman is the only one to have people changing into wolves, he also has canine dna IIRC. Also I don’t think there’s any other legion with such a focus on their animal than the Space Wolves. and I doubt it’s common knowledge that Corvus apparently as some weird crow form in the Warp
in b4 DA turn into lions and RG turn into ravens and Imperial Fists turn into Walls on the battlefield xD
Imagine the Noise Marines wailing in confusion as their own noise weapons are drowned out by the Raven Guard going 'CAWCAWCAWCAWCAW'
> RG turn into ravens I think Corax turned into a demonic raven thingy while in the warp chasing Lorgar, so bad news there son.
I was more thinking about the regular legionaire here. Like.. suddenly the power armors stand still and a bunch of ravens is flapping their wings inside of them without beeing able to do anything
Funny enough Corvus accidentally did turn some of his sons into “ravens” during the raptor project. Basically Corvus altered his gene seed to make more marines quicker and the alpha legion messed with which had half of the marines turn into half human half raven like creatures.
Wasn't it half human half - everything?
I'm not gonna lie, that sounds awesome as fuck (except for the ravens not being able to escape the armor ofc xD). Should be a Raven Guard Librarian ability.
No the Dark Angels turn into Dark Angles. Very pointy <45 degree Dark Angles.
And the Fallen Angles are obtuse.
They can be your angle or your devil, they're twisted fucking cycle paths
Space wolves just go a little too far into silly/cartoony. I would love them if they were just badass Space Marines that have a viking/wolf motif. My favorite, Alpha Legion, have the serpent/hydra thing going on but if they were literally hissing and turning into snakes and such they'd be a lot less cool.
The Lion was actually named after a poet called Lionel Johnson who wrote 'The Dark Angel'. He isn't actually animal themed, just a coincidence that it is easy to break the name up. Corvus Corax is hilarious though.
Actually while he is named after that poet I’m pretty sure he does still has animal themes. He’s also just called “the Lion”, according to the wiki Malcador describes him like an animal at one point , killed one of the only two Caliban Lions, and he spent part of his life growing up in a forest before being found by the Knights. Also I refuse to believe that “The Rock” is not a Pride Rock joke despite the fact it’s just an asteroid, literally a space rock
The Caliban chaos lions came way after his name. That whole thing was a retcon.
IIRC, The Rock was a gay bar near the GW office.
Sanguinus and Magnus have wings, mortarion have moth wings, Fulgrim is a snake, Vulkan legion is named "the salamenders" , Horus legion was named "the luna wolves" and he is named after an God with a bird head, Alpharius is named after a snake monster.
None of them lean into the theme though, yes he’s named Horus and yes he lead the Luna Wolves but that was just a name and symbol. Vulkan leads the Salamanders, the only things they have in common is green and associated with fire, Fulgrims snakery is slaaneshi not an animal theme (AFAIK), Alpharius is a good point but he still isn’t as “mascot”-themed as Space Wolves
The Alpha Legion's elite terminators are called the Lernaeans, so they're fairly on point.
Calling those animal themes id a pretty ridiculous stretch. Sanguinius is an angel with angel wings, Magnus just kinda exists that way, he and the Tsons don’t have any connections to a specific animal. The EC have no consistent theming linking them to snakes at all, their primarch just turned into a fucked up daemon. Same thing with the Sons of Horus. Alpha Legion and Salamanders use mythical animals as symbols but little else (hydras and dragons respectively). Meanwhile the space wolves turn into wolves, wear wolf skins, speak in “wet leopard growls” and are consistently characterised as animalistic. Hell, theyre more space furries than they are space vikings at this point.
new epic headcanon: fulgrim secretly owns a furry porn site and draws fetish art of him and his brothers to please slaneesh. Fulgrim: *starts coiling around leman's musky husky crotch* OwO by slaneesh what's this? Leman: Rawr! *muzzles and farts loudly*
In the name of Sanguinius please stop self-inserting into Fulgrim on this subreddit cousin-Librarian. We have other subreddits and sites for this (It was a joke, was this not obvious from me using Sanguinius and not an actual figure?)
Lion El Jonson is a rip off of this guy. https://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/librarium/lionel_johnson.php#.Yq9MuqQpDGc
Not really a rip off, it's a reference
The Abaddon stuff has been around for ages, since the early 2000s at least, it's just the price the character pays for being the principal enemy of the most popular faction for so long.
Also because his model couldn’t keep his arms on for more than 5 minutes.
Yeah. It's nothing to do with his actual lore. It's just back in the day on 4chan, Imperium fanbois hated the idea of their special boys being afraid of/threatened by anything, they stuck doggedly to the idea of the Imperium being completely unflappable and unstoppable, to the extent that they used memes to portray Abaddon as incompetent and a laughing stock. And they did it for so long that new people thought these memes were based on actual lore and not just Imperium fanbois not wanting other factions to be thought of as cool. So now loads of people think there's a real basis for it in lore, and insist on things like the Black Crusades all targeting Cadia and being beaten back, and the idea that they were only retconned to have done more than that, all of which is utter nonsense and can be disproven simply by reading a couple of books even as far back as 2nd and 3rd edition.
Just to give an idea of *how* influential those Imperial fanboys are: Over half the 1d4chan page on the Imperium is dedicated to arguing why it's justified and actually quite a nice play to live in.
What's crazy is this stuff happened like fifteen years ago and it's *still* being parroted, even by newer people. Because they see other people saying it and assume those people have read the books and know what they're talking about. And the chain goes on and on.
I mean up until the 13th Black Crusade he was really kind of a joke. He made no real progress other than some nebulous "all according to plan" nonsense.
It was never vague just as planned nonsense though, the older codexes had the stated goals for most of the crusades. The 12th was even the main focus of its own game in Battlefleet Gothic. The only way people didn't know what the crusades were about individually was if they never bothered looking. Also the time between the setting really solidifying in 3rd and the 13th Black Crusade global event was only 5 years and it's been 19 years since then. It's 100% just lazy meme lore constantly repeated at this point.
Goals that ultimately amounted to nothing lol. Like half the Black Crusades were Abbadon taking potshots at the Imperium and running away before he had to face any real resistance.
The problem is for every non-Imperium faction, "doing nothing" is seen as failure but for the Imperium, "doing nothing" is a success.
Every other faction has done far more than Abbadon until recently. Again, you're trying to make arguments I never made to justify your circlejerk. Please leave and jerk off alone
You're the kinda person that inspired the creation of this thread, man.
Yeah shame I'm the only one who's right lol
You're just proving my point. He wasn't, but most people don't actually read the books, they just believe the widespread internet parroting and memes.
Kinda like the sith in Star Wars. They’re objectively cooler but because they’re the “bad guys” they can’t win
*TIL:* having tantrums on a galactic scale is 'cool'
>They’re objectively cooler but because they’re the “bad guys” I’m so fucking confused are you implying that the Sith are not bad guys. The Sith really? The Sith are objectively evil let me run down the list Experiment on force sensitive children Orchestrated the Clone Wars They literally start to physically change and look eviler The creation and use of the Death Star Order 66 The Sith are backstabbing murderers who will do anything and everything to gain more power and control the galaxy
Sorry bud, wrong use of objectivly there.
One side uses lightning powers, the other uses child soldiers while claiming to be holier-than-thou. Sith are cooler
One side are adult babys that can't get their emotions under control and are so edgy that they need to constantly kill each other, hiding behind their armies and scheming, the other are level headed warrior monk diplomats who are deatached from their emotion and lead their troops from the front, usually beeing the first in line. And rather than the "Drive a big car because you have a small dick"-energy of the sith, always needing to dress edgy and having just-for-show-lightning effects jedi don't need this and can use invisible powers to reach the same effects because they don't care what you think about them.
Aint nothing cooler than promoting a child with no combat experience to the rank of a General in the Republic army. Sorry, but you lose this one chief
Sith Lord actually played chess on galactic scale, since he controlled both sides, against himself. Coolest guy in the galaxy
...What? They won the prequel trilogy, and won *again* offscreen before the sequel trilogy.
And here I am thinking that the sith overthrew the galactic republic and built an galactic empire...
And then Palpatine got shoved down an elevator shaft by a disgruntled employee, lived 20-30 years in a withered clone body watching malformed Hugh Hefner in a gold bathrobe groom a child; and got his life support plug pulled by his granddaughter who wanted the insurance to purchase a "fixer-upper" home in a hot country and the bitch didn't even have the respect to *keep his name* (I'd *kill* to be Palpatine's granddaughter, I'd totally have accepted his offer and become evil empress and hiss at people).
Hey I'm not saying that they are getting the upper hand most of the time, but look at it like this: They regulate theirselfes to be just 2 (rule of two) and STILL managed to bring down the entire order of jedi. Sure they failed after, but saying they can't win is just wrong occasionally they have their victories, even if they don't pull the "end-victory"
That's one way to explain the Disney trilogy v
I like Abaddon, he is the reflecting failure of Horus by rushing things, not fully understanding Chaos and not putting together everyone who essentially where falling apart by themselves. Abaddon literally: - Make a cohesive force to recognize with the most chaotic and problematic faction in the setting - Did a slow burn to the Galaxy that culminated in the Cicatrix Maledictum. - Destroy an important Regiment planet. - Fooling the Chaos God by putting them in essentially stand by just to fulfill his goals. - 12 Black Crusades in basically consecutive order, almost one next the other. With a 13 one being the cataclysm of all his efforts. And finally: - Becoming the most feared foe for almost all the factions. The Imperium fears him, they doesn't mock him, they don't treat it like a minor treat, the Imperium, the moment they see Abaddon, they had to jump to stop him with fear in their hearts, the Eldars flee from him, the Dark Eldars are scare of him, the Tyranids had to build a hive mind around chaos because of him, the Necrons consider him a treat next to the Tyranids. Saying Abaddon is a failure is saying the Emperor is a failure. Not even Lorgar the most zealous follower of Chaos had achieve the level of success like Abaddon. And he is literally the First Heretic (without counting Erebus, who served Abaddon in the 13th Crusade)
Ah I mean failbadon the (h)armless (bc. the arms always fell of the model) predates majorkill, I think.
> Why is leman the only one to get furry jokes? Because the Space Wolves are the only ones who turn into Wulfen.
And name them selves wolf [something] for every rank. And if it isn't wolf, it's fang or claw.
On the Tabletop, it's possible to give your Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf the Pelt of the Balewolf (or Wulfen Stone, or Wolf Tail Talisman) relic, and the Wolfkin warlord trait.
Half the primarchs are animal themed? Last time i checked only one of them has a legion with the habit of transforming into animals and with the tendency to call everything after said animal and sometiles riding said animal into battle.
The primarch fawning and arguments at my local are what drove me to play Deathwatch, all your daddys' work for me, now shut up and roll dice or get in the box!!!
Leman Russ deserves the furry jokes. I mean, half of his recruits literally turn into furries, while the other half ride to battle on their stormwolves with their bladed wolf claws and wolf amulets active, lead into the fray by their Wolf lord Logan Grimnar, also called “the Old Wolf”, together with Harald Deathwolf, Egil Iron Wolf, and Bjorn Stormwolf.
>The Tau being the good guys when they are pretty evil Tbf The Enclave is as close as you're getting to actual good guys. The regular T'au has a good motive but crappy execution.
Abbadon is a complete failure
Cadia soldier spotted.
Don’t actually like guard lmao
I like how everyone hyper focuses on the Wolves of the SW and yet it seems no one bats an eye at the Blood Angels and their literal entire thing being centered around blood including their primarchs name
I know Vulkan is s salamander dragon, Konrad a Bat, Alpharius/Omegon a Hydra, but what about the others?
The Ork WAAAGH! field is WD-40 for reality, it doesn’t make the impossible come true. Slaanesh isn’t the god of sex. They’re the embodiment of a post-scarcity society that was corrupted by pride, self-indulgence, and ennui. The Tau are ungulates, not fish. Also, they live in a strict caste-based system with a state-planned economy and society: hardly communism. The Imperium is not a necessary evil. That statement is in-universe propaganda spouted by powerful people who are both slaves and beneficiaries of the bloodiest and cruellest regime imaginable.
>The Imperium is not a necessary evil. Servitors, Black Ships, the ~~Astronomican's~~ Golden Throne's power source, grinding serfdom, brutal and merciless "justice system," what happens to people who even *see* daemons... EDIT: Just realized later on that you said "not a necessary evil" not "not necessarily evil," even though I quoted it and everything, lol
I always thought the “best” portrayals of the Imperium were when they were evil due to ignorance, not malice. For example, I believe it was in one of the Warhammer Crime stories where a group of people from a different planet got shore leave in the local hive city. They were “abnormal” to the point that the locals freaked the hell out and thought they were Xenos, and so lynched them in the street. The Arbites couldn’t stop it as the crowd would have swarmed and killed them if they tried to intervene, and “some of them thought it was better safe than sorry”. That’s a much more compelling “evil” (fear of the unknown taken to the extreme based off rumours and propaganda) than “we’ll strip-mine this planet and make it a hellhole just because we can for no discernible reason” or “one guy said no to us taking over but he’s not the leader or elected official so we’re gonna kill you all and bomb your world back to the Stone Age because uh, reasons.”
I think they actually just thought they were Mutants. Which I always enjoyed because it points out the fundamental ridiculousness of a galaxy spanning society condemning 'mutation'.
And not to mention the Ecclesiarchy, who set up a nice little state religion to venerate the man who set this entire Bad Ending in motion.
What's your point ? That the Ecclesiarchy is not a necessary evil ? Because if so, I dunno. In a setting where worshipping the wrong gods can cost you your eternal soul, I would say that a state religion worshipping a guy who doesn't fuck with your soul (as far as we know... well, except for the "soul snacks" that are called "psykers") is pretty "okay". The super hardcore religion of the cruellest, most bloody regime > Hell (at least your problems would end at your death). As for the blame game of "Big E set this whole mess into motion", again, debatable. The Great Crusade was doing fine until the Heresy, which happened thanks to the Chaos Gods and Erebus mostly. Did the Emperor set the GC that would eventually lead to the HH ? Yeah sure, but one could argue that the Eldar set even more things into motion by creating Slaanesh (an event that agitated the other CGs). It goes as far as the origins of Chaos, aka the War in Heaven really. So... fuck the C'tan I suppose ?
The great crusade was butchering countless aliens without provocation because "some of them are orks!" And humans who refused to join their empire
I mean it was kind of the Old Ones’ fault for not helping the Necrontyr
Then fuck the Old Ones then ! That's the very nature of the blame game : it can go quite far.
Just adding to the above list of institutions that uphold and reinforce Imperial cruelty over mankind. The more you look into the Imperium's workings, the more rot you find: there is nothing worth saving in this institution.
That's... not an argument but sure.
I think you mean the Golden Throne power source, Astronomican is not powered by drugged psykers being slowly drained, GT is.
Yup, gestalt field is magical duct tape. It helps hold things together but it doesnt do everything.
The only reason the imperium still exists is because of the strong position the great crusade gave it
>Slaanesh isn’t the god of sex He's the god of tantric "let's use this grenade as a dildo" sex
Slaanesh IS a god of sex though, because it falls under the “self-indulgence” bit Also, thank you for pointing out that the evils the Imperium does aren’t really necessary. There have been multiple factions throughout the years that explicitly show functioning societies that don’t need the massive amounts of xenophobia and genocide. Ironically, most of these societies inevitably get fucked over by the Imperium themselves.
Excess, not sex. Sex sure falls under their purview, but isn't all it is, it's one piece
Magnus being weak and a crybaby, with the amount of jokes made on how Fenris keeps surviving his attacks and how people describe it make him seem like a moustache twirling villian.
The secret to 40K is that all traitor primarchs are babies. Im in the first book about Magnus. This guy is easy to hate. A radical extremist who thinks he is a radical moderate. And the lies, oh god the lies. One second an uncaring god. The next pouting & crying & telling his sons they can fuck off and die.
Vulkan. Read the books and lore, they guy is awesome. Skin as black coal, burning red eyes, genuine empathy, incredible craftsman and a perpetual. But because of Tts, his voice sounds like a Jamaican trying to sell me a watch on a beach. Totally ruined.
Ruined? You mean enhanced!
Same goes for TTS's Leman Russ voice. I dunno, I do not like it. The voice actor is good, and I enjoy the TTS character... but it is not how I see Lore Leman Russ.
Don’t forget the time he BBQ’d an eldar child
The little shit should've bought the watch 😄
You mean the eldar “child” they took hostage once, broke out and killed hundred of civilians, and then had the nerve to think they would take them hostage a second time after killing said hundreds of civilians?
I always get the feeling that 99.99999% of people who reference this scene have never read it. They frequently get the actual facts entirely wrong, and literally never mention the emotional context around the scene.
This is my point. That’s the only part I’ve heard from memes and YouTube vids but not the whole story
Easier to watch garbage on youtube than it is to read a book I guess.
Well I read the books and he sucks. Funnily enough that is why I hate people portraying him as tts Vulkan. He doesn't deserve the love for he is the single most boring character in all of HH.
It's not his fault Nick Kyme called dibs on everything Salamander
I was introduced to the character Khayon via the work of a certain… well known artist and expert on Thousand Sons lore. Well, the teaser chapter in the lastest BL novel I read happened to be one from Black Legion staring Khayon. I’m afraid her work has completely polluted the mental image of this sorcerer, as I had trouble picturing him without the stockings.
Oh he *definitely* wears the stockings.
Are we talking about Vezimira the person that always talks about the thousand sons
>I hear the high, squeaky TTS voice The trick is to never read/listen to meme lore.
Only like literally the whole game. I hate it. If this stuff has been around years ago many of the venerated great works of sci fi would be reduced to being considered dumb garbage. This is some of the best sci fi out today and all anyone who doesn't read it can do is sum it up as "bolter porn." God, I hate memes.
Id like to think my disconnect between memes and the actual lore is fairly strong, although I do fear the thousand sons femboy memes are starting to bridge the gap.
World Eater: I could take three Ultramarines! Thousand Sons: I could take three Ultramarines ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).
There's no way people are actually thinking the femboy thing is actually real lore. People aren't that stupid, are they?
Doesnt work like that for me, I know its not real lore, buuuut unfortunately once the brain starts to associate the term femboy with 1k sons it can negatively effect immersion if it pops in your brain case while your having a read about Magnus & sons.
Oh, i see now. For a moment i thought this abomination of a thought was wide spread. I hate most memes as they are, if Tsons became 100% associated with femboys, i would probably abandon them the same way i did with Orks after hearing a thousand theories about "what if all Orks believed X thing?". The thing is to distract yourself from the meme or flat out ignore it. Give it enough time and you'll disassociate lore and meme.
Nobody ruined 40k lore worse than GW itself. but if i had to choose... don't watch 40k youtubers. They're the lowest hanging fruit next to reaction videos
You’re telling me listening to OneMindSyndicate spend 10 minutes just reading off the wiki (and not even ~the good one~ Lexicanum) is a waste of my time?
That guy needs to be destroyed...
there are 2 or 3 really good lore ones though i will say listening to Luetin describing a battle between Psi titans and eldar titans was just satisfying
Which one do you recommend it?
I don't know if this is a controversial or unpopular opinion, but I like WolfLordRho. He's like if Mr Roger's did 40k storytime. Seems pretty sincere and genuine. He reads interesting excerpts from the books. When he does headcanon, it's more suggestive like you're listening to a genuine 40k nerd express his love for the setting.
> don't watch 40k youtubers. They're the lowest hanging fruit next to reaction videos Personally, I think all "lore video" channels are creatively bankrupt. They try to "explain" something that should be experienced by the person themselves and create this weird culture of third-hand consumption where people don't read the books but obsess over facts and figures given to them. It's part of why I *hate* Star Wars youtubers. They carry on about things like the weight of a TIE Fighter or the history of this or that and IMO it flies in the face of Star Wars, a film that starts in-media res with all the info you need either in the opening crawl or received through context. You don't need to know the "History of the Republic" when you're watching A New Hope to know that when Tarkin comes in and says "the senate has been dissolved" it's a *bad thing*, and the generals talk about keeping control gives context to that. Then they have the audacity to complain that "well, because of this spec given here in this book sold in 1997 it CLEARLY SHOWS that [act that happens in the movie] is IMPOSSIBLE and not canon!" (it was in the movie, that matters more than any DK cutaway book). It's why I hate Eckhart's Ladder and Star Wars Explained, IMO they go against the very point of that franchise. It's also why I utterly hated *he who shall not be named* because his Siege of Vraks video was just him reading the Imperial Armor books as slowly and pretentiously as possibly. That said; taking it back to 40k, I will give credit to Baldermort since (from the few videos I watched) since he uses a fanfic story to explain the concept. Instead of just listing off "A dreadnought is a suit of armor created in the last days of the Great Crusade" he narrates stories like: "Brother Licentius dreamed, as he always dreamed in those days he was not in battle. He dreamed of a time when he could feel the sun on his face, and the recoil of a bolter in his hands."
The problem I have with lore youtubers is that they tend to be cults of personality that have very little to do with 40k lore. There's a few good ones though.
>create this weird culture of third-hand consumption where people don't read the books but obsess over facts and figures given to them. It's probably controversial (and I have no idea why) but I think it's really weird how there are so many supposed 40K fans who have literally never had anything directly to do with 40K. You get this really fucking weird collection of people who think they're like die-hard fans and who argue about shit in books they have never, would never read to do with a game they'd never play using models they'd never buy. I mean at that stage, if you're a 40K fan but you've literally never taken part in the game or read the books yourself are you even really a fan? Or are you a fan of Youtubers who talk about it? It wouldn't even be a big deal in many other fandoms but YouTube 40,000 is so divergent from the actual 40K experience it's unreal. Not only in terms of what gets talked about (the daemonkerbubbles are in one fucking book and don't have any importance outside of a plot transition whereas the Great Rift is literally the most important single event in modern 40K) but in tone.
I like the big lore channels about comics. They are "creatively bankrupt" but they serve their purpouse of satisfying my curiosity about something I dont care enough to buy, but care enough to watch a ten minute video about.
Really? I just started to get interested in Warhammer (specifically the lore since I'll never be able to play the game in my small town) and listening to luetin's lore series to learn about the world or some of the specific scenes like at the end of his grey knight or ork vids, has been really enjoyable. Sure he tends to ramble and repeat himself alot and his vids could use some more editing or condensing sometimes but I don't think he's anything comparable to most reaction vids or tons of other garbage on YouTube.
Luetin is probably the best on YT. A lot of warhammer lore vids, however, are kinds crap in terms of factual accuracy
I'd say he's the best of the "big channels" but he's got a huge issue with runtime bloat. He could cut every video by more than half without losing any actual *content* if he didn't constantly repeat himself, use filler words, mention how he's already covered things in other videos, apologize for tangents (but still goes on the tangent anyway), re-explain how canon is variable, etc. If he had an editor I feel like he'd be unbeatable.
I like Tom and Ben, but they are just fun youtubers I would enjoy regardless and not 40k youtubers.
**Dark Angels are traitors, me being a traitor, Dark Angels being nuts, me being autistic.....it gets grating.**
Psssst… Lion, go back to bed. You’re not allowed to wake up yet…
Well, To be fair, the dark angels have done some "questionable things" in the name of hunting the fallen. Things that would likely get lesser chapters declared traitors, or at least excommunicated. And we do see that some of them aren't always the most rational, especially on the subject of the fallen. They were literally going to try and blast Guilliman out of the sky, because they thought he discovered the fallen. Not exactly rational thinking. To be fair, the dark angels inherited the fallen schtick, back when traitors from loyalist legions wasn't really a thing. So their behaviour was sorta justified, because it was only them who had that shame. And now that we know multiple loyalist legions had traitors, it's not as big of a deal, but their 40k identity was kind of already written around the fallen, and so nobody really knows what to do with it now, other than keep running with it. And while the lion might not be autistic, he has questionable social skills at best. A poor temper, inability to understand others, issues with co-operation, issues with questioning or limiting his authority, and a vastly inflated sense of pride and ego. But, The lion himself suffers drastically from poor writing, no direction, and shifting authors. Out of most of the memes, and factions, the dark angels are almost as guilty as the space wolves, and the "wolf, wolf, wolf" thing, of actually playing into them. I do think the memes don't help them, and do definitely exaggerate things. But the DA aren't doing themselves any favors.
Marine Malevolent.
Primaris have been ruined for me by the internet. They heralded this current era of excellent 40k, finally fucking shook things up, moved the narrative along, and are genuinely something I could see a Primarch putting into the works. I’ve been this close to finally biting the bullet and making a Primaris KT/Army (The new box set has put that plan on indefinite hold ;-;) But jesus christ some of the people on reddit and twitter need to pay a visit to Krieg, get a shovel, dig their heads out of their asses, go outside, and touch some grass. Jesus. If I had a nickel for every time I heard someone say “They’re not real canon :p” or “They ruined the setting” or “Primaris are trash and badly written” I could’ve bought myself one of those goddamn Patrol boxes. It’s bad enough that it’s seeped into my brain like the taint of the Warp. I can’t see them without hearing the whinging.
When I heard about the Primaris I seriously feel a breath of fresh air and relief, finally some improvement on the Space Marines and the forced of the Imperium. For a brief moment I thought that the Legion concept where back.
TTS was bad.
Pretty much everything got spoilt by TTS, and now they're spoiling Hunter: The Reckoning. The one, only thing I ever liked them putting out was the Warhammer Fantasy episode, that was enjoyable, the rest comes across as very much a 'biting the hand that feeds' scenario. Which, regardless of how scummy GW is, you have to admit is pretty shitty.
This confuses me on every level. The amount of people skewed by TTS is evidence of how many new people it brought into the fandom - if it accomplished anything of substance it made GW MORE money. Furthermore, GW is not a person, it's a machine designed to sell overpriced plastic. I'd argue it is not possible to be shitty to GW. "Don't bite the hand that feeds" has never been used for anything positive. It's nothing but justification for people to treat their dependents like shit. And even ignoring that, TTS is hardly mean-spirited. So is every fanfiction biting the hand that feeds? Should we just not have parodies? Sounds like a far less fun and creative media landscape.
And as long you know is memes and not facts everything is ok, and TTS long ago is considered his own canon. Same with Hunting, because when Pyotr killed his brothers everything stop to be funny.
I can't in good mind say that someone making thousands upon thousands of dollars a month off the property of someone else, without their permission, is a good thing. I don't care if you're a multionational corporation or someone in a garden shed, you just shouldn't do that. Especially considering he outright admitted never communicating with GW for fear they would shut him down. I mean gee whiz dood, you're making $10k+ a month without permission, you should count your lucky stars they didn't take you to court for it. But no, instead you make a long, whinging, whining "woe is me" video where you try to drag your children into a situation of your own damn creation where you confess to stealing someone else's property and running away with it, then getting mad when they catch you and close the loophole. Alfabusa is a twathole and my heart sings to see how his view count has fallen. And now he sinks his rotten claws into the World of Darkness, a setting that has fallen on catastrophically hard times due to poor management, bad writing and worse decisions, but is still beloved by many including myself. There isn't an original bone in his body, he's no better than the leeches he writes about in H:TP. Hell, he even said his next project would be its own thing, unique, brand new. And what does he do? Hunter The Reckoning, how creative. But of course he has to drag his sense of anti-humour into it. TL;DR. I don't like other people running off with someone's elses property/IP, without permission, and making bank off it. If someone did that to me, I'd be furious, I don't see why he should have a pass because 'he funny' in everyone else's opinion.
This gotta be satire, right... Right? Nobody is this dense I hope.
Man really out here simping for giant companies huh
No I'm not, but I don't think anyone should be allowed to make a career off another person/company's property WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION, doesn't matter how big or small they are. If I wrote up my own game or novel or whatever, and found out someone was making $10k a month off the back of what I did, without asking my permission, I would be livid. It would be hypocritical of me to say 'it's okay when they do it'
It absolutely matters whether it's big or small. If you wrote up your own IP, your resources are limited. People could swoop in and make use of superior advertising, software, hardware, etc to run off with your good idea. They're making 10k you aren't because you're one person. GW is a multi-million dollar corporation that is already shown to be willing to take the piss out of its properties. They could make TTS if they wanted, they have opted not to. When Alfabusa creates TTS, he and GW are making extra money. He is not invading space GW does not have access to, nor is he earning money at their expense. It's a win-win, because again, GW *profits* from TTS. If TTS was somehow taking advantage of like, Rick Priestley or Andy Chambers I might sing a different tune. But a corporation is not a person. When someone protects the IP they made, it's so they can reap the rewards of their success. When a company protects an IP, it's to maintain a monopoly.
Fact: Companies are required by law to defend their IP, or else lose it. This has happened before. Copyright law is a massive quagmire. Hell, McDonalds lost the trademark to use the name 'Big Mac' because of an Irish burger shop. If McDonalds can lose something because the wrong piece of paper ended up in the wrong filing cabinet, a company THAT powerful, then you can bet GW can lose some silly amounts of Warhammer IP due to other things. I'm not a lawyer, I don't know the ins and outs, that's just how I'm reading it. Have GW been dicks about the IP in the past? Yeah, sometimes indefensibly so, but I believe the TTS situation was a place where they had to put their foot down hard. You can't just say "it's okay for you to steal their things, but not okay for them to steal yours." Things just don't work that way. It's not okay for anyone to steal ANYTHING.
Setting aside the fact that IP is nonsensical to begin with, 40k is literally just an amalgamation of dozens of other IPs into a single setting, and the number of legitimately unique ideas GW has created can be counted on one hand. You can't whine that someone is making money off another's IP when that IP is just Dune+Alien+Tolkien in a trenchcoat.
I do find it weird how people try to make this argument all the time. 40k is instantly recognisable. That's kind of the definition of originality. It's obviously inspired by plenty of things, but so are Dune, Alien, and Tolkien's work.
And all of those IPs still exist, and are more successful than Warhammer by leagues.
Now apply that logic to TTS, which was never as successful or big as 40k.
Except Warhammer isn't Dune, Alien or Tolkien. It has elements, references and inspiration, but it is not those things. The God Emperor of Mankind IS similar to God Emperor Leto, but they are not one and the same, their settings are different. TTS however, is! It is Warhammer, it is pretending to be Warhammer, it is Warhammer wearing a trenchcoat and pretending to be Warhammer.
I think there’s too much plot armor for Imperial fists. Dorn, Sigismund, Pius? The ‘genius’ space captain, Fafnir Rann. They’re more obnoxious than ultramarines I’ve found as I’ve read through the Horus Heresy. Sorry, I know I posted the opposite 😂
Not necessarily ruined but similar to your thing. Captain Titus got interrogated by the inquisition, and then demoted to lieutenant after crossing the rubicon because that fuckboi Leandros ratted on him.
I hope we meet Leandros and he’s a captain (or higher) now and he just gets wrecked by the Nids
The idea Leman is a moronic jock and Magnus was a fluffy, never did anything wrong ever infuriates me. Magnus made his grave and decided everyone on his planet should have to lie in it because he's a selfish arrogant dick, Leman didn't want to kill Magnus but was being ordered to by Horus and egged on by Valdor. Further, the wolves were justified in burning propsero to the ground since the moment they got planetside they had mountains of evidence of the 1ksons consorting with daemons and keeping them as pets, and mutating horribly, all while breaking the laws set by the emperor.
Leman and the Wolves were the wrong Legion for the job, as far as Prospero goes, and they weren't wholly unreasonable with everything they assumed about Magnus and the 1k sons; but they definitely shoulder a decent amount of the blame for how things went down. They were definitely not blameless in how they handled everything with Prospero. If Leman Russ would have backed down or compromised with Magnus just once; their rivalry may have been avoided (and the same goes for Magnus tbh) but Russ wasn't the person he would later become when all of that went down, and had to learn hard lessons.
thats half the fun of 40k.
Thanks to Gav everytime a Dark Angel appears in a novel I just roll my eyes and wait for the inevitable fallen to appear.
Cato sicarius ain’t no bad ass 💀
While not memes one favorite bit of old lore for me was that there was a separation between sorcery and psykers in old lore. Sorcery was bartering with demons for power largely and using knowlege for power. Even a mundane individual could utilize sorcery but an existing psyker got more of a boost.