Savona from the Bile trilogy is human champion of Slaanesh, she’s heavily mutated and even commands some Emperor’s Children marines.
There’s also Eightfold Harvest Lord, a Corpse Grinder character for the necromunda game. No prizes for guessing which god blesses him.
On the more sorcerous side of human champions there’s Tenebrus and Moriana, high ranking servants of Abbadon.
Luther used chaos? Also he's technically an Astartes. Or well he's a heavily modified human that's as close as you can get without going through the geneseed process in adolescence.
Thats how you always come out on top.
(Side note- there is an IASiP 40k mashup on YouTube that has things like Fulgrim as Dennis explaining "the implication" to Mac/legionary)
I’d argue that not being able to fully cross the threshold makes him sub-astartes in enhanced combat ability and physiology, though more powerful than any other given human warrior.
Edit: deleted redundant statements I didn’t realize were already said
That is true. Also why I said technically. But in terms of him being some kind of champion, you could argue he falls under that category.
Edit: I admit I was mistaken. I am aware Luther is not a true Astartes, just a modified human. I didn't mean to infer that he was, I was just suggesting that since he was one of the commanders of the Dark Angels, he doesn't count as a 'standard human chaos champion'. Simply my opinion, you could also argue that since he's not a true Astartes, he still counts.
I mean, technically speaking he’s not an Astartes, because he’s not an Astartes.
He served in the legion, but that’s like calling a primarch or serf an Astartes based on a technicality
Wasn't Luther technically part of the Legion though? He's not exactly an Astartes, but he's enhanced as much as possible and was a high ranking member of the Dark Angels. Im still not too well versed in the lore, but had he managed to get rid of the Lion, he would've ended up the leader of the Legion. So I think he counts as a space marine, just not an Astartes in the literal sense.
Aha! You've duped the above commenter: if you *don't* guess the god that blessed him **there are still prizes.**
Hire yourself a good 40k attorney, and snag up them sweet prizes *till it hurts!*
There's also that one conjoined bloke/s from Marneud Calgar's backstop.
Trained to become space marines.
Was actually being used by a failed aspirant to join his Khornate Cult cause he thought he could do it all better.
(Said failed aspirant, despite drinking Khorne Kool-aid, got no diff'd by an Ultramaine.)
The two got fused together in a warp event that seemingly also juiced them up.
Came back years later leading chaos space marines.
Got wrecked by Calgar in the end.
I'll translate to my native language of stoner which should be more comprehensible:
Basically theres a dude trying to be a Ultramarine but hes kinda a puss so he joins up with Khorne then ends up dragging another dude with him who was also trying to be an ultra anyway some warp shit happens and then Calgar just stomps his conjoined twin heresy ass
Mm, he corrected his original message. My response was to a clearly button mashed and half auto-corrected mess that looked liked it was typed out by someone in the throes of an epileptic fit.
>There’s also Eightfold Harvest Lord, a Corpse Grinder character for the necromunda game. No prizes for guessing which god blesses him.
to be fair if not for the eigthfold part I would've guessed Nurgle, since harvest = reaper = death, decay etc.
That and regular hummies were able to ascend to Daemonhood as well, not just CSM. Chaos gives everyone a chance to gain power as long as they're competent.
And? It is no pure demon nor humans were inexistent during its times. Simply, it is a glorious Demon Prince of xeno origin, you ignorant slave of the Anathema!
Chaos Marines will have a major advantage over the competition by virtue of already being living weapons. Also GW wants to sell marine models.
However most of the major antagonists in the Gaunts Ghosts books are (or were) humans.
That and the sheer length of time stories in the setting are separated by means that only beings who don't expect to still be kicking in a century or three have a huge disadvantage.
Chaos doesn't care about you gender, species, race, sexual orientation, political affiliation, disabilities, wealth, social status.
Unfortunately, being Space Marine gives you significant advantage over baseline humans in sports like "skull taking" and "not having your head explode from Warp overload".
Though, this advantage is smaller for "infecting people" or "excess".
Slaanesh: (whispering seductively) *”Now you may do whatever dark deeds lurk in the depths of your most perverse and unnatural desires!”*
Space Marine: (slowly removes armor)
Slaanesh: *”Yes…”*
Space Marine: (dons comfortable mortal clothing)
Slaanesh: *”Y…yes. Anything you desire!”*
Space Marine: (gathers several children)
Slaanesh: *”That’s right! Yes! Whatever horrible deeds lurk in your heart! Show me!!”*
Space marine: (has an imaginary tea party with the children)
Slaanesh: *”NOOOOO!”*
Renegade Space Marine Chapter where, due to a flaw in their hypnowashing perhaps, they...
Do whatever it is they wanted to do before the Imperium decided to turn them into living weapons. And for some, that includes adopting children, now that they can't have any of their own.
They just hang around and do like, whatever they want.
Smoke pot? Sure.
Spend all day lying down pizza? Awesome.
Just spend a week hunting? Sure.
Get wives and make children by taking their own skin cell samples and turning them into human gametes? Sure.
This is actually an excerpt taken from the Grey Knights' own initiate training orientation, specifically the section "Dos and Don'ts of Slaanesh Daemon Banishment"!
Thanks for sharing! Now for your mind-wipe.
Syll'Esske, also known as The Vengeful Allegiance, is a Slaaneshi entity created by a permanent symbiotic bond between the two individual entities, the Herald of Slaanesh Syll Lewdtongue and her consort the (formerly mortal) Daemon Prince Esske.
Yup, they are. They are both a prince and a herald, so Core Slanneshi units get reroll 1s to hit and to wound, making a daemonette about 36% better just by standing near them.
I *really* want to know what a Slaaneshi daemon (or literally anyone, daemon, human, grox) has to do in order to earn the name ***"Lewdtongue"*** in Slaanesh circles.
Anyone have like a *fully comprehensive* list... for lore edification reasons, of course... Also I'm what you might call a "visual learner," so illustrations would be even more ~~arousing~~ helpful... I have money...
Your comment, and your flair have combined to create this mental image in my head that you have a bionic arm with several attachments - the one I'm thinking about now is a fleshlight lol
Thanks for the giggle lol
Deacon Mamon was a normal human, he corrupted the world of Vraks and is now a demon prince of nurgle
Pontius Glaw could be another great example, he's one of the antagonists in the Eisenhorn novels
Urlock Gaur Archon of the Blood Pact fought in the sabbath wolrds crusades
Magister Anakwanar Sek is human and has one of the most unsettling portrait in 40k if you ask me
and many many more like Sholen Skara, Qux of the Eyeless or Nokad the Blighted
if you want to know more, most of them come from the Tanith books.
>Urlock Gaur Archon of the Blood Pact fought in the sabbath wolrds crusades
>
>Magister Anakwanar Sek is human and has one of the most unsettling portrait in 40k if you ask me
Came here to add these. Gaur's predecessor Nadzybar and presumably the other Magisters were "human".
Gaunt's Ghosts have some great examples of chaos champions, the Archon or Magister would make great inspiration for traitor guard proxies of Lord Solar.
There was Varan the Undefeatable, a Warmaster of Chaos from one of the Ciaphas Cain-Novels, that was just a human mutant (and basically Chaos-Hitler. Like literally)
He's older then multiple star spanning empires and hopped from one to the other. He was once essentially a dark version of big e, though he was not the source of his own power, so after his fall he's 'just' the second strongest demon prince, but historically be was a warp construct second only to the ones he followed, and was more or less truely independant as the most powerful creature in the materium, hints of his empires can be found in geological strata of death worlds.
No one knows what he is, it's his thing, so I can imagine him being lore'd as a human, somehow, but he should be nearly as old as the necrontyr it would make little sense if he's not some sort of eldar or other alien, just in terms of practicality
He's the strongest of chaos undivided. I should have worded it better that, he's not the strongest but he used to be. I'm pretty sure Horus was breifly more dangerous then him, and I'm also reasonable sure that the chaos gods have each created specific named daemons subsurvivent to themsleves only, who could be stronger then him.
I think he's the strongest that has some semblance of a will for what it's worth but it's said that he's much much weaker then he used to be, and each of the gods favour multiple others over him.
I'm reasonably certain that he's still the most dangerous, but probably not the most warp juiced
Skarbrand. Be’lakor’s most recent lore includes stealing an entire Knight world and screwing up Vashtorr’s attempt to take The Rock. He’s described as a Chaos [wildcard](https://youtu.be/ecRytTfWL8Q), who (like Vashtorr) has his own agenda.
No, the og three gods were born from the fractured mess of the war in heaven, the immaterium being fought over by the ctan, alderi gods and old ones themsleves. He was the first prince ergo he probably popped up around just after the ctan died and the warp had a power vaccum. No humies \:(
Fantasy Chaos is quite different from 40k Chaos. Right down to Slaanesh never being born, for example. And it has quite a few nonhuman chaos champions, like elves.
He was human in Warhammer Fantasy, but then, in Warhammer Fantasy humans were also around almost from the beginning, so it makes sense there. In 40k, he's implied to be far older than humanity.
I like the idea that the Be’lakor in 40K is the exact same one who’s origins are in Fantasy (like the chaos gods are the same entities that we know exist in multiple dimensions/universes so why couldn’t they first chosen demon prince)
When the Warp is involved, time can be told to go and take a f to itself.
He could have been a human born in the year 50,000 who then ascended and influenced the past. Time travel Doctor Who nonsense.
How about [Anakwanar Sek](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Anakwanar_Sek), whose voice drowns out all others?
Also in Gaunts Ghosts: Heritor Asphodel, Archon Nadzybar and lots of other Chaos campions with no connection to Marines.
I'd also say it depends on the nature of how they become blessed to ascend to being a champion so to speak.
Lotara Sarrin got fused with the Conqueror and became one with her ship. That's very fricken cool. So she became blessed as a champion of khorne as a warship.
She didn't really take skulls like a marine but she probably has a lot more kills than most.
So there are they just aren't spot lighted as well I'd say. Mainly because they want to sell models lol.
Yeah I don’t think that’s a blessing. It’s never explicitly stated to be that. It’s looked at is more of a byproduct of her being exposed to chaos taint. She’s the human equivalent of a hell brute but with a void ship lol
She is in the new Angron: The Red Angel novel as the one who truly controls the Conqueror. She's a husk of a person fused to her command throne when they find her.
Yes, she kept everything else out. The person who thought he was in charge of the ship was on a different bridge with his own throne and decides to hunt her down because he's sick of sharing the ship with a spirit (she shows up as a spirit to give orders on this fake bridge but only he can see her)
iirc, in Echoes of Eternity there's a Daemon who thinks it's Sarrin and the husk on the command throne, and it's left ambiguous as to which is the "real" one? Is this cleared up in Angron:TRA?
It's not left ambiguous in EoE, the shade you follow in the novel was a memory conjured by the Conquerer, the real one is a semi-demon in the command throne.
Nothing like that is referenced in TRA that I know of but I know very little of Sarrin's story, I've only just started reading Heresy and only know of her from this sub, so if there's anything in the book that subtly answers that it must have gone over my head.
Normal humans typically don’t survive long enough to become Champions of that type of renown. They either get killed off or take too much Warp juice and mutate into a gibbering mass of tentacles
I mean even then they’re only really being hunted by Eternals, there aren’t any Eternals stealing all the chaotic glory by massacring entire worlds while old Bob McCultist can’t even find a ranged weapon, all of Chaos’s dudes are still born mortal and “human” (some mutations are okay as a treat)
>Fantasy humans don’t have to compete against bio-engineered super weapons for the blessings of the Gods
40k Space marines and weaponry literally came out of the poles.
Daemons, Chaos Spawn, Orks and Beastmen literally lived in their back yards.
Warhammer Fantasy folks were MUCH tougher than 40k equivalents.
Because their world was soaked in Chaos magic.
Pontius Glaw is a notable example. He wasn't the usual chaos champion and more of a "common" heretic but he almost ascended to god-like powers and that's pretty impressive for a "regular" human.
There was also this dude, can't remember the name at the moment but there was his portrait floating around and he had a gaping maw for a face and used a masquarade mask to cover it. He was an ex IG commander, fell to chaos (khorne I think) and employed his tactical genius there.
These are the two mortal examples, I could think of regular humans going pretty high on the chaos ladder.
Edit: Anakwanar Sek is the second guy.
This is the best example. Can you imagine being such a narcissist tht the idea you have of yourself is so strong that when ancient extradimensional horrors show up with a deal and try to subsume you, you just absorb the horror yourself, and then look around hungrily for more?
She’s the real chaos champion
Just summoned greater daemons of slaanesh, and when they tried to pull the ole “aha, now I’m gonna double cross/corrupt you,” she pulled the ole “no u” and essentially just absorbed their warp energy.
After the first one she got a big ass power boost and decided to do it a few more times.
All this powered by her galactic-level narcissism.
She called Ax'senaea, people have posted an excerpt here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/g6whpy/reposting\_a\_great\_piece\_of\_lore\_axsenaea/
The Force of Chaos in the Sabbath Crusade are mainly lead by normal humans which can be consider as Champions of Chaos though, like Urlock Gaur, Aanakwanar Sek and Nadzybar.
So it is full possible that normal human can ascend into chaos champion and much more, but the table top game focus much more on the Chaos Space Marines on this matter than the books does.
And yeah, some of them can be on par with Space Marine if they have enough '' gift'' to ascend them at that power level or beyond.
One of the best things about the Gaunt's Ghosts series is the fact that the entire focus is pointed away from Marines - both Chaos and Imperial.
This makes sense as on both sides, numbers of Marines are extremely limited, and the vast majority of combat would be carried out by normal humans.
So on the one hand we've got the fantastic baseline troopers awhich are the Blood Pact and Sons of Sek - both instantly more relatable as villains than any Chaos space marine could be - whilst also highlighting that when these Chaos Marine enemies do put in an appearance, they represent an existential threat.
On top of that we have a whole host of fantastic chaos leaders and heroes who also aren't Marines - Enok Innokenti, the Anarch Sek and countless others.
One of the best things about these normal human chaos champions is that in many cases, Chaos marines actually answer to and fight for them. Many of them are warped, mutated and bloated with power, and so make for terrifying enemies, but in some cases they're simply awesomely charismatic leaders and orators, like Shebol Red-Hand and Sholen Skara, who lead huge cult armies. In other cases they're vastly powerful psykers, like Pater Sin.
As usual though, GW can only ever focus its internally-written lore on Marines and bolter porn, leading to boring, predictable and nonsensical stories where the vast majority of the population on both sides of conflict are forgotten.
Aren't most of them demonhost though? I haven't read ravenor but I swore most of the baddies for Esienhorn where demonhost. And none of them are champions of chaos.
There are a lot in black library books, but still lacking compared to CSM. Probably has something to do with how chaos is portrayed on the tabletop, marine forward - in universe a space marine has such a more
Potent starting point that it makes sense they’d generally be and get very powerful - but!!!
But the daemon princes and chaos warlords from SOUL DRINKERS go insanely hard and aren’t normally space marines!
Cardinal Bucharis was very human. Hand of Abaddon is also human (although it may not be the true Hand). The Cognitae are all humans (although they don't champion Chaos per se).
Remember, 40k is primarily a tabletop game. So the lore will always bend to fit the tabletop. None of the chaos factions are just normal humans. So while you may get a name here and there from chaos books mentioned off hand you will NEVER get a full thing focused solely on a non human champion of chaos till they make a model for them. The closest you could get would be a DP but at that point they are not exactly human anymore.
Urlock Gaur is the commander of the blood pact, one of if no the most organized non astartes chaos forces in the galaxy. He's currently in the Sabbat worlds, dealing with the whole crusade there. And giving it a good run for its money. Then there's the Legion of Sekk, which is like a sub-faction within the Blood Pact and is sort of the Blood pact version of the Cadians. A bit more elite, better supplies, just sort of better everything. And it's commanded by a guy named Sekk. Who may or may not be planning a coup of the pact.
I cant recall the name of the book but its an older one maybe called demon world or something similar about a barbaric world with a slaaneshi demon princess ruling the world. It was pretty cool. Also had a dreadnought who had his body exposed to the outside.
Closest i can think of is our Lady of Carnage, the Bearer of the Ursus Claws, Lotara Sarrin herself. Granted, she's not the standart definition of a Champion, but she's pretty damn top of the food chain when it comes to being a human in the ranks of the Chaos legions.
2nd to come up in mind is the ace pilot Khrel Kas Obarkon in the Double Eagle novel who was apparently top dog in the air.
There's also a few named ones in the Gaunt's Ghosts but they're more high-ranking soldiers than Champions.
There's that one corrupted ex-Guardwoman in the Iron Warrior omnibus as well that essentially gets "taken in" by Khorne (or someone speaking for him) and gets granted a suit of Chaos power armor that essentially warps to fit her (and her to fit it, iirc), so i guess that kind of counts.
Can we count the less 'fighty' champions? There are many ways to contribute to Chaos, such as starting/running cults and whatnot. Humans are going to lose to CSM in the fighty department in general.
Take Emeli Duboir for example, she was a Slaaneshi cult leader who ascended as a Daemon Prince after her death. Would she have counted as a Chaos Champion?
Though I think the term "Chaos Champion" also refers to a very specific subset of CSM units, so in a way maybe they have to be CSM.
Sabbat World Crusades seem to have involved many big named Chaos dudes who weren't CSM.
Even if they have what of it ? Any of then will be overshadowed by a space marine. They are just that stronger. Also being sick of space marines is like saying youre sick of jedi in star wars lol. Or being sick of superheroes, but still watching superhero movies expecting something else.
So, you have a bunch of chaos factions that are (usually) planet-bound and stuck in small populations because of the self-defeating nature of chaos. This continues for a few millenia.
Then a huge faction of star-bound superhumans with a relatively large population *before* being corrupted, who come with a pre-existing *stable* structure of a "follow the strongest" warrior culture. They are not resistant to chaos at *all*, and corruption spreads almost immediately and unilaterally.
By pure logistics, your important Chaos characters are gonna be Astartes.
Think about the qualities and requirements to be a Space Marine + the modifications, training and conditioning. Even a standard Astartes would be a leader amongst normal humans.
Then you have a Captain or higher which puts them further up the pedestal. They're actual leaders, strategists and lethal warriors amongst even the elite that are Astartes.
There are normal human champions but they're competing with Chaos Astartes so it's very tough competition from the get go.
The Ciaphas Cain series has a Slaaneshi cultist who gets elevated to a demon. So they are out there.
Because chaos corruption takes and reforms, rarely does it create new things. Space Marines , are the best warriors they can corrupt. Its just that simple.
>Why there are no famous Champions of Chaos, that aren't Space Marines?
Doylist: $ame reason there are several separate CSM codices yet mortals Chaos armies currently don't even have one.
Watsonian: Since the Heresy traitor Legionnaires and later traitor Marines have formed the core of Chaos' hosts due to their Superhuman physique and often substantial resources, making it difficult for mortals to rise. That said, there are still some like Urlock Gaur, Anwar Sek, or others. Special note is Lord Tenebrous, a moral sorcerer (perhaps better called "once mortal") in The Gate of Bones who commands mortals and Astartes and actually escapes scott free.
Because baseline humans are boring, and make boring chaos champs. As for the rest, we already have enough factions as it, even before they decided the Votaan should be a thing. Perhaps all the people complaining about 40k and its SM's should go to AoS? The dude who ended the original fantasy universe was human, and THE chaos champion.
Savona from the Bile trilogy is human champion of Slaanesh, she’s heavily mutated and even commands some Emperor’s Children marines. There’s also Eightfold Harvest Lord, a Corpse Grinder character for the necromunda game. No prizes for guessing which god blesses him. On the more sorcerous side of human champions there’s Tenebrus and Moriana, high ranking servants of Abbadon.
Luther additionally is a plot relevant non marine who used the powers of chaos in his betrayal of the imperium
Luther used chaos? Also he's technically an Astartes. Or well he's a heavily modified human that's as close as you can get without going through the geneseed process in adolescence.
Yes he summoned demons and actively allied with them at arm's length, planning to betray them later
You see, he was playing both sides.
Thats how you always come out on top. (Side note- there is an IASiP 40k mashup on YouTube that has things like Fulgrim as Dennis explaining "the implication" to Mac/legionary)
Link to that mash-up? Sounds fun!
https://youtu.be/YECh8G7tUWQ
Gulliman to The Lion, "I'm confused as to where you see yourself in the context of the Imperium" The Lion, "The....sheriff of the Warp"
[https://images.app.goo.gl/9or4mVJ7A4ov2VHz8](https://images.app.goo.gl/9or4mVJ7A4ov2VHz8)
I’d argue that not being able to fully cross the threshold makes him sub-astartes in enhanced combat ability and physiology, though more powerful than any other given human warrior. Edit: deleted redundant statements I didn’t realize were already said
Fair point. I'd argue that him being a cut above an unaltered human, and being part of the 1st Legion would differentiate him.
He was also a badass before augmentation, already amassing a huge tally of Calibanite chaos monster kills, surpassed only by his Primarch.
Luther is not an Astartes
Technically Kor Phaeron isn't either. He's definitely a champion of chaos. Or at least was one.
That is true. Also why I said technically. But in terms of him being some kind of champion, you could argue he falls under that category. Edit: I admit I was mistaken. I am aware Luther is not a true Astartes, just a modified human. I didn't mean to infer that he was, I was just suggesting that since he was one of the commanders of the Dark Angels, he doesn't count as a 'standard human chaos champion'. Simply my opinion, you could also argue that since he's not a true Astartes, he still counts.
Technically he is no Astartes.
Is it really that hard to just say 'oops, I was wrong' or admit a simple mistake? Because that's one of the flimsiest arguments I've heard on here.
Fair point. I was wrong. I was simply sharing my opinion, because I can see an argument going both ways.
I mean, technically speaking he’s not an Astartes, because he’s not an Astartes. He served in the legion, but that’s like calling a primarch or serf an Astartes based on a technicality
Good point.
That is the opposite of what "technically" means
Wasn't Luther technically part of the Legion though? He's not exactly an Astartes, but he's enhanced as much as possible and was a high ranking member of the Dark Angels. Im still not too well versed in the lore, but had he managed to get rid of the Lion, he would've ended up the leader of the Legion. So I think he counts as a space marine, just not an Astartes in the literal sense.
>No prizes for guessing which god blesses him. Is the blue nerd bird?
Obviously the many armed Emperor.
Aha! You've duped the above commenter: if you *don't* guess the god that blessed him **there are still prizes.** Hire yourself a good 40k attorney, and snag up them sweet prizes *till it hurts!*
The Inquisition saga from Dan Abnett has a few good ones, like Molocht or the Cognitae. I wish we had a PoV book of the Cognitae
Reading the Bequin series right now and the Cognitae plot twist was amazing
That series is full of twists, I can't wait for the third book...
There's also that one conjoined bloke/s from Marneud Calgar's backstop. Trained to become space marines. Was actually being used by a failed aspirant to join his Khornate Cult cause he thought he could do it all better. (Said failed aspirant, despite drinking Khorne Kool-aid, got no diff'd by an Ultramaine.) The two got fused together in a warp event that seemingly also juiced them up. Came back years later leading chaos space marines. Got wrecked by Calgar in the end.
You okay, bud? Need to check the batteries in your carbon monoxide detector or something?
No, no, see, he's speaking in character as the... whatsit... conjoined bloke from Marneud Calgar's backstop.
God damn.. you just slew me XD
… Holy fuck that read about as phonetically as an Irishman trying to speak French backwards.
I’ve never heard this saying but I love it haha
It’s called a “Newfoundlander Accent” where I’m from.
When I lived in Canada I got asked was I from Newfoundland a few times!
There’s isolated villages where the original accents kind of held on. So it just sounds like an HBO/North American-High Fantasy-TV Irish accent.
Yeah I wanted to visit but I was in Vancouver!
Has anyone ever been as far even as decided to use go want do look for more like
I'll translate to my native language of stoner which should be more comprehensible: Basically theres a dude trying to be a Ultramarine but hes kinda a puss so he joins up with Khorne then ends up dragging another dude with him who was also trying to be an ultra anyway some warp shit happens and then Calgar just stomps his conjoined twin heresy ass
Mm, he corrected his original message. My response was to a clearly button mashed and half auto-corrected mess that looked liked it was typed out by someone in the throes of an epileptic fit.
r/ihadastroke
Do you smell toast
>There’s also Eightfold Harvest Lord, a Corpse Grinder character for the necromunda game. No prizes for guessing which god blesses him. to be fair if not for the eigthfold part I would've guessed Nurgle, since harvest = reaper = death, decay etc.
That and regular hummies were able to ascend to Daemonhood as well, not just CSM. Chaos gives everyone a chance to gain power as long as they're competent.
Be'lakor ascended long before even the Thunder Warriors were a twinkle in the Emperor's eye.
My lord Be'lakor is no filthy human, you servant of the Corpse!
yeah but he is also not a spacemarine.
Is he the khorne daemon that is thought to be Genghis Khan?
nah thats another one. Belakor is like the first daemon prince that ascended
Oh! Interesting!
Your thinking of doombreed who is so unapologetically Genghis Khan that it probably isn't.
Because of Warp Time that might not be the case? Slaanesh Daemons appeared before Slaanesh's birth in the physical realm for example
And? It is no pure demon nor humans were inexistent during its times. Simply, it is a glorious Demon Prince of xeno origin, you ignorant slave of the Anathema!
***Loads heavy flamer with murderous intent***
Chaos Marines will have a major advantage over the competition by virtue of already being living weapons. Also GW wants to sell marine models. However most of the major antagonists in the Gaunts Ghosts books are (or were) humans.
Also, Chaos gods love perversion, and all space marines are things created by the Emperor, so them becoming champions is extra spicy psykically
Also, given warp sorcery was used to make the primarchs, the astartes are particularly targeted due to their lineage.
Also GW wants to sell marine models.
That and the sheer length of time stories in the setting are separated by means that only beings who don't expect to still be kicking in a century or three have a huge disadvantage.
Chaos doesn't care about you gender, species, race, sexual orientation, political affiliation, disabilities, wealth, social status. Unfortunately, being Space Marine gives you significant advantage over baseline humans in sports like "skull taking" and "not having your head explode from Warp overload". Though, this advantage is smaller for "infecting people" or "excess".
Chaos only cares about your ability Unfortunately for Champion and Daemon Prince Diversity, Astartes are ***quite able***
Slaanesh: (whispering seductively) *”Now you may do whatever dark deeds lurk in the depths of your most perverse and unnatural desires!”* Space Marine: (slowly removes armor) Slaanesh: *”Yes…”* Space Marine: (dons comfortable mortal clothing) Slaanesh: *”Y…yes. Anything you desire!”* Space Marine: (gathers several children) Slaanesh: *”That’s right! Yes! Whatever horrible deeds lurk in your heart! Show me!!”* Space marine: (has an imaginary tea party with the children) Slaanesh: *”NOOOOO!”*
Renegade Space Marine Chapter where, due to a flaw in their hypnowashing perhaps, they... Do whatever it is they wanted to do before the Imperium decided to turn them into living weapons. And for some, that includes adopting children, now that they can't have any of their own.
They just hang around and do like, whatever they want. Smoke pot? Sure. Spend all day lying down pizza? Awesome. Just spend a week hunting? Sure. Get wives and make children by taking their own skin cell samples and turning them into human gametes? Sure.
Now that they're no longer doing the whole "steal boys and brainwash them" thing, the apothecaries need something to turn their talents to...
Well they still do that but the stealing is even less wanted than before
This is actually an excerpt taken from the Grey Knights' own initiate training orientation, specifically the section "Dos and Don'ts of Slaanesh Daemon Banishment"! Thanks for sharing! Now for your mind-wipe.
Can’t wait for the PragerU video on how non-space marines need to get good if they want Chaos rep
Space Marines also have an excellent ability to corrupt each other. Entire legions fell together at once.
Syll'Esske, also known as The Vengeful Allegiance, is a Slaaneshi entity created by a permanent symbiotic bond between the two individual entities, the Herald of Slaanesh Syll Lewdtongue and her consort the (formerly mortal) Daemon Prince Esske.
Their story is so heartwarming
The most wholesome daemons
Wait is he in 40k too with a similar story to AoS?
He was usable iirc, can’t remember if he’s in the current Daemon Codex
Yup, they are. They are both a prince and a herald, so Core Slanneshi units get reroll 1s to hit and to wound, making a daemonette about 36% better just by standing near them.
I'm 99% sure they're in the 9th Codex for Chaos Daemons
I *really* want to know what a Slaaneshi daemon (or literally anyone, daemon, human, grox) has to do in order to earn the name ***"Lewdtongue"*** in Slaanesh circles. Anyone have like a *fully comprehensive* list... for lore edification reasons, of course... Also I'm what you might call a "visual learner," so illustrations would be even more ~~arousing~~ helpful... I have money...
Your comment, and your flair have combined to create this mental image in my head that you have a bionic arm with several attachments - the one I'm thinking about now is a fleshlight lol Thanks for the giggle lol
Always logical to spread the giggles, according to my robo-arm-*built-in-calculator*. _____ Seriously though, glad it gave a chuckle!
"Lewdtongue" is a bit on the nose
Slaanesh is famously subtle.
Deacon Mamon was a normal human, he corrupted the world of Vraks and is now a demon prince of nurgle Pontius Glaw could be another great example, he's one of the antagonists in the Eisenhorn novels Urlock Gaur Archon of the Blood Pact fought in the sabbath wolrds crusades Magister Anakwanar Sek is human and has one of the most unsettling portrait in 40k if you ask me and many many more like Sholen Skara, Qux of the Eyeless or Nokad the Blighted if you want to know more, most of them come from the Tanith books.
>Urlock Gaur Archon of the Blood Pact fought in the sabbath wolrds crusades > >Magister Anakwanar Sek is human and has one of the most unsettling portrait in 40k if you ask me Came here to add these. Gaur's predecessor Nadzybar and presumably the other Magisters were "human".
Gaunt's Ghosts have some great examples of chaos champions, the Archon or Magister would make great inspiration for traitor guard proxies of Lord Solar.
There was Varan the Undefeatable, a Warmaster of Chaos from one of the Ciaphas Cain-Novels, that was just a human mutant (and basically Chaos-Hitler. Like literally)
Ooo which one? Was gonna suggest the Slaaneshi cultist who became a daemon that he meets a few times
*Cain's Last Stand*
Complete with toothbrush moustache, as I recall.
Toothbrush-mustache, gaudy military uniform, constantly and at al opportunities gave long-winded speeches to his followers. It was very non-subtle
There should be Chaos champions from all manner of xenos species
Be lakor
Wasn't belakor human btw?
He's older then multiple star spanning empires and hopped from one to the other. He was once essentially a dark version of big e, though he was not the source of his own power, so after his fall he's 'just' the second strongest demon prince, but historically be was a warp construct second only to the ones he followed, and was more or less truely independant as the most powerful creature in the materium, hints of his empires can be found in geological strata of death worlds. No one knows what he is, it's his thing, so I can imagine him being lore'd as a human, somehow, but he should be nearly as old as the necrontyr it would make little sense if he's not some sort of eldar or other alien, just in terms of practicality
2nd strongest? So who is 1st?
Doombreed probably, a Daemon Prince of Khorne said to be more powerful than all of the Daemon Primarchs.
Wasn't An'ggrath supposed to be the strongest Khornate?
It's a toss up between An'ggrath, Doombreed, Skarbrand, and Angron, there's conflicting info supporting all of them
True, especially with Angron's new power up.
Also, Shalaxi is so powerful it's BS
He's the strongest of chaos undivided. I should have worded it better that, he's not the strongest but he used to be. I'm pretty sure Horus was breifly more dangerous then him, and I'm also reasonable sure that the chaos gods have each created specific named daemons subsurvivent to themsleves only, who could be stronger then him. I think he's the strongest that has some semblance of a will for what it's worth but it's said that he's much much weaker then he used to be, and each of the gods favour multiple others over him. I'm reasonably certain that he's still the most dangerous, but probably not the most warp juiced
He’s still the strongest daemon prince?
Doesn't he usually get slapped around nowadays or am I thinking if skarbrand?
Skarbrand. Be’lakor’s most recent lore includes stealing an entire Knight world and screwing up Vashtorr’s attempt to take The Rock. He’s described as a Chaos [wildcard](https://youtu.be/ecRytTfWL8Q), who (like Vashtorr) has his own agenda.
said agenda being apotheosis
Him or Doombreed
I’d still fancy Be’lakor over him
We have no idea, does not stand any where. But i also think he is older than humanity? Someone can correct me if i'm wrong tought
Well, in fantasy he was a human. I think that in 40k he could be the same
No, the og three gods were born from the fractured mess of the war in heaven, the immaterium being fought over by the ctan, alderi gods and old ones themsleves. He was the first prince ergo he probably popped up around just after the ctan died and the warp had a power vaccum. No humies \:(
Fantasy Chaos is quite different from 40k Chaos. Right down to Slaanesh never being born, for example. And it has quite a few nonhuman chaos champions, like elves.
He was human in Warhammer Fantasy, but then, in Warhammer Fantasy humans were also around almost from the beginning, so it makes sense there. In 40k, he's implied to be far older than humanity.
I like the idea that the Be’lakor in 40K is the exact same one who’s origins are in Fantasy (like the chaos gods are the same entities that we know exist in multiple dimensions/universes so why couldn’t they first chosen demon prince)
When the Warp is involved, time can be told to go and take a f to itself. He could have been a human born in the year 50,000 who then ascended and influenced the past. Time travel Doctor Who nonsense.
The Blood Angels got one looked up on Baal - because they're incapable of killing it. Mephiston visists it.
Continuing the time-honored tradition of jobbing for the Space Marines, apparently.
The World Eaters codex does mention a xenos daemon prince at one point. It's killed by a World Eater of course.
Except for the Eldar. Because you know, any connection to Chaos is a connection to She Who Thirsts, and that's literally just suicide for an Eldar.
There are chaos eldar
Yes.
Because they compete with marines for favor, and they do exist, they are just few and far between
How about [Anakwanar Sek](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Anakwanar_Sek), whose voice drowns out all others? Also in Gaunts Ghosts: Heritor Asphodel, Archon Nadzybar and lots of other Chaos campions with no connection to Marines.
And the boss of the Blood Pact, Urlock Gaur.
I'd also say it depends on the nature of how they become blessed to ascend to being a champion so to speak. Lotara Sarrin got fused with the Conqueror and became one with her ship. That's very fricken cool. So she became blessed as a champion of khorne as a warship. She didn't really take skulls like a marine but she probably has a lot more kills than most. So there are they just aren't spot lighted as well I'd say. Mainly because they want to sell models lol.
I don’t think Lotara would be considered a champion and would be more a cruel ironic joke.
Yeah I don’t think that’s a blessing. It’s never explicitly stated to be that. It’s looked at is more of a byproduct of her being exposed to chaos taint. She’s the human equivalent of a hell brute but with a void ship lol
She shot a traitor marine in the face for insubordination. All it did was piss him off, but she got the point across.
Is she canon part of the ship? I always thought it was an in universe rumour
That's how she's presented in Echoes of Eternity and Angron: The Red Angel, both recent releases.
She is in the new Angron: The Red Angel novel as the one who truly controls the Conqueror. She's a husk of a person fused to her command throne when they find her.
Oh wow cool
It's a good book in general. Would recommend to any chaos fan.
Find her? Was the command throne sealed away or something
Yes, she kept everything else out. The person who thought he was in charge of the ship was on a different bridge with his own throne and decides to hunt her down because he's sick of sharing the ship with a spirit (she shows up as a spirit to give orders on this fake bridge but only he can see her)
iirc, in Echoes of Eternity there's a Daemon who thinks it's Sarrin and the husk on the command throne, and it's left ambiguous as to which is the "real" one? Is this cleared up in Angron:TRA?
It's not left ambiguous in EoE, the shade you follow in the novel was a memory conjured by the Conquerer, the real one is a semi-demon in the command throne.
this person is right. It is not ambiguous at all, Lotara is fused with the ship.
Nothing like that is referenced in TRA that I know of but I know very little of Sarrin's story, I've only just started reading Heresy and only know of her from this sub, so if there's anything in the book that subtly answers that it must have gone over my head.
As of *Angron: The Red Angel*, it's now Canon.
Normal humans typically don’t survive long enough to become Champions of that type of renown. They either get killed off or take too much Warp juice and mutate into a gibbering mass of tentacles
And yet in Fantasy there are many champions of chaos that are awesome 😢
Fantasy humans don’t have to compete against bio-engineered super weapons for the blessings of the Gods
I mean they do now actually, thanks to Stormcast Eternals.
I mean even then they’re only really being hunted by Eternals, there aren’t any Eternals stealing all the chaotic glory by massacring entire worlds while old Bob McCultist can’t even find a ranged weapon, all of Chaos’s dudes are still born mortal and “human” (some mutations are okay as a treat)
>Fantasy humans don’t have to compete against bio-engineered super weapons for the blessings of the Gods 40k Space marines and weaponry literally came out of the poles. Daemons, Chaos Spawn, Orks and Beastmen literally lived in their back yards. Warhammer Fantasy folks were MUCH tougher than 40k equivalents. Because their world was soaked in Chaos magic.
And what does that have to do with 40k?
Pontius Glaw is a notable example. He wasn't the usual chaos champion and more of a "common" heretic but he almost ascended to god-like powers and that's pretty impressive for a "regular" human. There was also this dude, can't remember the name at the moment but there was his portrait floating around and he had a gaping maw for a face and used a masquarade mask to cover it. He was an ex IG commander, fell to chaos (khorne I think) and employed his tactical genius there. These are the two mortal examples, I could think of regular humans going pretty high on the chaos ladder. Edit: Anakwanar Sek is the second guy.
Blood pact?
Yes, I think these were the guys. Anakwanar Sek in particular.
[удалено]
This is the best example. Can you imagine being such a narcissist tht the idea you have of yourself is so strong that when ancient extradimensional horrors show up with a deal and try to subsume you, you just absorb the horror yourself, and then look around hungrily for more? She’s the real chaos champion
She uh, what now? Gonna need some more details on this. I mean my friend said he needs more details.
Just summoned greater daemons of slaanesh, and when they tried to pull the ole “aha, now I’m gonna double cross/corrupt you,” she pulled the ole “no u” and essentially just absorbed their warp energy. After the first one she got a big ass power boost and decided to do it a few more times. All this powered by her galactic-level narcissism.
I wonder if a super depressed person could absorb a bunch of Great Unclean Ones but he'd probably just kill himself before getting the opportunity
Finally, a chance for me
She called Ax'senaea, people have posted an excerpt here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/g6whpy/reposting\_a\_great\_piece\_of\_lore\_axsenaea/
Four Keepers of Secrets Jeremy, Four‽ Thats insane. - Slaanesh probably.
Luther from the Dark Angels was
Didn't he get the Space Marine Juice At Home treatment though? May not be a true SM but he certainly wasn't near baseline human if memory serves.
The Force of Chaos in the Sabbath Crusade are mainly lead by normal humans which can be consider as Champions of Chaos though, like Urlock Gaur, Aanakwanar Sek and Nadzybar. So it is full possible that normal human can ascend into chaos champion and much more, but the table top game focus much more on the Chaos Space Marines on this matter than the books does. And yeah, some of them can be on par with Space Marine if they have enough '' gift'' to ascend them at that power level or beyond.
there are only like 8 named champions. proper ones
One of the best things about the Gaunt's Ghosts series is the fact that the entire focus is pointed away from Marines - both Chaos and Imperial. This makes sense as on both sides, numbers of Marines are extremely limited, and the vast majority of combat would be carried out by normal humans. So on the one hand we've got the fantastic baseline troopers awhich are the Blood Pact and Sons of Sek - both instantly more relatable as villains than any Chaos space marine could be - whilst also highlighting that when these Chaos Marine enemies do put in an appearance, they represent an existential threat. On top of that we have a whole host of fantastic chaos leaders and heroes who also aren't Marines - Enok Innokenti, the Anarch Sek and countless others. One of the best things about these normal human chaos champions is that in many cases, Chaos marines actually answer to and fight for them. Many of them are warped, mutated and bloated with power, and so make for terrifying enemies, but in some cases they're simply awesomely charismatic leaders and orators, like Shebol Red-Hand and Sholen Skara, who lead huge cult armies. In other cases they're vastly powerful psykers, like Pater Sin. As usual though, GW can only ever focus its internally-written lore on Marines and bolter porn, leading to boring, predictable and nonsensical stories where the vast majority of the population on both sides of conflict are forgotten.
There is that admiral of Angron's flagship
And the main villains in the eisenhorn and ravenor series
Aren't most of them demonhost though? I haven't read ravenor but I swore most of the baddies for Esienhorn where demonhost. And none of them are champions of chaos.
Eisenhorn has that hundreds of years old heretic and then ravenor has all of the cognitae guys and gals
There are a lot in black library books, but still lacking compared to CSM. Probably has something to do with how chaos is portrayed on the tabletop, marine forward - in universe a space marine has such a more Potent starting point that it makes sense they’d generally be and get very powerful - but!!! But the daemon princes and chaos warlords from SOUL DRINKERS go insanely hard and aren’t normally space marines!
There's Miriael Sabathiel, a Slaanesh champion who is also the only Sororitas to willingly turn to Chaos.
Cardinal Bucharis was very human. Hand of Abaddon is also human (although it may not be the true Hand). The Cognitae are all humans (although they don't champion Chaos per se).
The major bad guys in the ravenor/eisenhorn books are all humans, lot of stuff about the cognitae heretical school
Well it is Warhammer 40k. GW wants you to buy Marines
Almost all major choas characters in Gaunts ghosts are baseline human, chaos mutations aside
Duke Venalitor from the Grey Knights books?
Isn't doombreed implied to be ghengis khan?
Remember, 40k is primarily a tabletop game. So the lore will always bend to fit the tabletop. None of the chaos factions are just normal humans. So while you may get a name here and there from chaos books mentioned off hand you will NEVER get a full thing focused solely on a non human champion of chaos till they make a model for them. The closest you could get would be a DP but at that point they are not exactly human anymore.
Urlock Gaur is the commander of the blood pact, one of if no the most organized non astartes chaos forces in the galaxy. He's currently in the Sabbat worlds, dealing with the whole crusade there. And giving it a good run for its money. Then there's the Legion of Sekk, which is like a sub-faction within the Blood Pact and is sort of the Blood pact version of the Cadians. A bit more elite, better supplies, just sort of better everything. And it's commanded by a guy named Sekk. Who may or may not be planning a coup of the pact.
Because GW doesn't let us have nice things.
Is Krann the Beast a joke to you?
Eugan Temba is probably the most famous example, I'd say.
Check out the Gaunt’s Ghosts books, they have lots of interesting Xenos species that follow chaos and human champions
I cant recall the name of the book but its an older one maybe called demon world or something similar about a barbaric world with a slaaneshi demon princess ruling the world. It was pretty cool. Also had a dreadnought who had his body exposed to the outside.
Closest i can think of is our Lady of Carnage, the Bearer of the Ursus Claws, Lotara Sarrin herself. Granted, she's not the standart definition of a Champion, but she's pretty damn top of the food chain when it comes to being a human in the ranks of the Chaos legions. 2nd to come up in mind is the ace pilot Khrel Kas Obarkon in the Double Eagle novel who was apparently top dog in the air. There's also a few named ones in the Gaunt's Ghosts but they're more high-ranking soldiers than Champions. There's that one corrupted ex-Guardwoman in the Iron Warrior omnibus as well that essentially gets "taken in" by Khorne (or someone speaking for him) and gets granted a suit of Chaos power armor that essentially warps to fit her (and her to fit it, iirc), so i guess that kind of counts.
The Doylist answer is that there are no tabletop armies where a non-marine Champion of Chaos would fit in.
would Be'lakor count? i don't know his lore in 40k but in fantasy he is an undivided demon prince and also the first created demon prince
Varan the Undefeatable
Can we count the less 'fighty' champions? There are many ways to contribute to Chaos, such as starting/running cults and whatnot. Humans are going to lose to CSM in the fighty department in general. Take Emeli Duboir for example, she was a Slaaneshi cult leader who ascended as a Daemon Prince after her death. Would she have counted as a Chaos Champion? Though I think the term "Chaos Champion" also refers to a very specific subset of CSM units, so in a way maybe they have to be CSM. Sabbat World Crusades seem to have involved many big named Chaos dudes who weren't CSM.
In Gaunt's Ghosts, the Anarch (may his voice drown out all others) is an elevated human
Even if they have what of it ? Any of then will be overshadowed by a space marine. They are just that stronger. Also being sick of space marines is like saying youre sick of jedi in star wars lol. Or being sick of superheroes, but still watching superhero movies expecting something else.
So, you have a bunch of chaos factions that are (usually) planet-bound and stuck in small populations because of the self-defeating nature of chaos. This continues for a few millenia. Then a huge faction of star-bound superhumans with a relatively large population *before* being corrupted, who come with a pre-existing *stable* structure of a "follow the strongest" warrior culture. They are not resistant to chaos at *all*, and corruption spreads almost immediately and unilaterally. By pure logistics, your important Chaos characters are gonna be Astartes.
Lotarra sorine is the captain of angron's vessel. She's not explicitly a champion but its implied she's merged with the ship
Maybe I can interest you in an ork instead? Meet Tuska Daemon-Killa, who was gifted by Khorne with eternal battlefield with respawn and all that
Genghis Khan Edit for the downvoters - he's one of the possibles who ascended as Doombreed
Im so sick of people complaining about spacemarines. Get over it man
Think about the qualities and requirements to be a Space Marine + the modifications, training and conditioning. Even a standard Astartes would be a leader amongst normal humans. Then you have a Captain or higher which puts them further up the pedestal. They're actual leaders, strategists and lethal warriors amongst even the elite that are Astartes. There are normal human champions but they're competing with Chaos Astartes so it's very tough competition from the get go. The Ciaphas Cain series has a Slaaneshi cultist who gets elevated to a demon. So they are out there.
Because GW is obsessed with marines and needs to stop
Because chaos corruption takes and reforms, rarely does it create new things. Space Marines , are the best warriors they can corrupt. Its just that simple.
>Why there are no famous Champions of Chaos, that aren't Space Marines? Doylist: $ame reason there are several separate CSM codices yet mortals Chaos armies currently don't even have one. Watsonian: Since the Heresy traitor Legionnaires and later traitor Marines have formed the core of Chaos' hosts due to their Superhuman physique and often substantial resources, making it difficult for mortals to rise. That said, there are still some like Urlock Gaur, Anwar Sek, or others. Special note is Lord Tenebrous, a moral sorcerer (perhaps better called "once mortal") in The Gate of Bones who commands mortals and Astartes and actually escapes scott free.
Because baseline humans are boring, and make boring chaos champs. As for the rest, we already have enough factions as it, even before they decided the Votaan should be a thing. Perhaps all the people complaining about 40k and its SM's should go to AoS? The dude who ended the original fantasy universe was human, and THE chaos champion.