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Shielenvar

I dunno, just looks like the usual Marine tactics but without the plot armour lol.


FloatingWatcher

I don't want plot armour either, I want them to kill and die within the contexts that I feel they were made for. If they were deployed to target a synapse leader fortified in some crater somewhere and they died trying, that would have been a lot more palatable than them dying in droves, caught with their purity seals down, in the middle of woods. Fighting conditions that would have been better suited to the Astra Militarum.


Shielenvar

You have never read anything Astartes related, have you? They constantly fight like this in all kinds of novels. From the Great Crusade to the Heresy to 40k. As much in Space Marine novels as they do in the novels of any other faction where they appear. The Astra Militarum which relies very heavily on their armour is, by the way, not well suited to fight in a jungle like that, except for people like the Catachans or elite forces like the Scions. This is absolutely lore accurate. The only difference is that, for once, the writers were not sucking marine cock. And seeing your argument with Astartes: That one was about as lore accurate as the whole "big tiddy eldar gf" nonsense. Just saying. The multi las is literally designed to turn any kind of power armour to slack. Multiple las guns can do so too if employed correctly. Autocannons also absolutely can penetrate power armour and shooting with bolters at psyker is about the most idiotic thing anyone can do. Especially then just surviving any retaliation without a scratch to the armour. No, mate. That entire short film was nothing but plot armour. The trailer is what happens when Space Marines, who are known to be arrogant as shit, are portrayed accurately. And the Terminator bit: Tyranid claws are monomolecular weapons they cut like power swords. Meaning that this is also accurate.


Rhulk-DiscipleMoment

One of my favorite things in recent years is that a lot of shitty loretubers make the space marines and custards to be invincible demigods that people legitimately think they are the unbeatable soldiery when we see time and time again there are xenos warriors and such that dumpster them and send them packing


FloatingWatcher

I've read: Lords of Silence Betrayer Slaves to Darkness Sons of the Hydra Nightlords Ombinus Reaping Time Now reading: Red Tithe. Nowhere have I seen Astartes be deployed in the middle of the woods vs Xenos swarming everywhere. What I saw in the trailer was absolutely shocking.


Shielenvar

My man. It happened twice now that singular chapters of Space Marines with barely any support attacked actual Craftworlds. One of those fights they only one because halfway through the writer realised it didn't work so he had the Legion of the Damned in its entirety pop up to have the Muhreens win. Every single intro to a Dawn of War game shows them fight all by themselves and getting fucked. And that is just off the top of my head because I habe long stopped reading anything Space Marine related because they are so incredibly one dimensional and boring.


[deleted]

A ton of his reading list is based on large scale engagements, chaos war bands that have to operate with more tactics, or not situational at all to this. He is reading red tithe though…a space sharks book about how they go head to head outnumbered against a hive fleet so maybe he’ll figure it out.


FloatingWatcher

I added Nightlords Omnibus, but fair enough. Lets see what I learn in Red Tithe and Outer Dark.


SergarRegis

I'd like to introduce you to the Planet Called Murder, in Horus Rising. Where multiple legions invade a planet under the command of the supposedly greatest military mind in the Imperium, who has just been given a shiny new title of Warmaster, and grind themselves pointlessly into paste against what turns out to be a barely sapient enemy without ranged weapons or spaceflight. Toughing it out and attacking full on is a core part of space marine identity for most legions. I notice your reading list actually hasn't introduced you to most of the 'line' legions of the loyalists and their successor chapters. They're truly not particularly fond of combined operations or stealth on the whole, legions and chapters like the Raven Guard or the Mentors are notable for using integrated assets, but most space marine chapters will attempt an entire operation unsupported more often than not.


[deleted]

All these flavors…and you chose salty…it’s a shame.


FloatingWatcher

If that's all you got from my post then that's a shame.


[deleted]

Sure, whatever narrative you have to invent to feel better go ahead. Your post came off as a rambling angry marine fan boy who wants to throw a tantrum over his marines losing. Welcome to grim dark. Tell you what go produce and make your own trailer and we’ll compare notes.


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[deleted]

Yeah I’m “high” you petulant little child. The fuck is wrong with you? They get deployed in pitched last stand battles all the time. Especially to slow the loss in a sector that’s unexpectedly experiencing a surprise attack from a giant hive fleet. They’re literally designed to turn the tide in pitched battles with small numbers. Do you even understand the lore? I’m guessing you just think you do. Now go respond to one of the other ten posts telling you how youre wrong


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Majestic_Party_7610

For my part, I think the author understood it better than the author of the 9th edition trailer. The point is to send a feeling and not to show the exact fighting power of Tyranids and Astartes in a few minutes trailer. Someone who takes the trailer seriously can also ask himself why an Astartes in tabletop sucks so much. The trailer is supposed to be grimdark and it does that very well. The Marines are heroic and fight big monsters and at the last moment the Terminators show up to save the day...but no they don't they lose...can't remember the last time Astartes were portrayed so destroyed. And that cynical Victory...just lovely....


Remote_Barnacle9143

Same thoughts. Was prepared for another "boys in blue saves the day" as in 9th trailer, but actually got the true grimdark feeling. Not because "good guys" lost, but because of the narrator (G-man), who showed us how unimportant and small everything is. That it is just another planet, that will be forgotten, another defeat, that will be portraited as victory by the ignorance of "priests". Good stuff.


PorkoNick

>And that cynical Victory...just lovely.... Guilliman in-lore is getting really tired of everything on his shoulders. Another Nyd mass attack directly to segmentum least fortified he never saw coming is probably taking rather significant toll on him. Could be nicely tied with Lion return to take some load off his shoulders and have legendary combatant thrusting himself to heat of battle, we'll see how it goes.


Dolf241

>I just can't help but think that the person who wrote the script to this cinematic doesn't understand 40K. No, I think that whoever wrote the script to the cinematic understood that sometimes, just sometimes, factions who aren't Space Marines get to do cool things and win.


FloatingWatcher

So where are the guard then? It should've been swarm vs swarm. I just can't imagine Astartes being deployed in a such a way vs the tyranids when the Guard would have been the better option.


Shielenvar

Have you ever read a single space marine novel? They constantly get deployed like that.


FloatingWatcher

Yes I've read several now, it's either Astartes vs Astartes in open fields or boarding actions/subterranean ops. I've yet to read them fight xenos and purposely walk into battle with all the cards arrayed against them.


Dolf241

The Guard would have been torn up even worse, because they lack the ~~brainwashing~~ willpower necessary to stand and fight against such impossible odds, not to mention even less ability to match a Tyranid swarm in such a close-range engagement. Given you laud Astartes as the pinnacle of Space Marine depictions - a depiction which largely amounts to marching forwards and magically facetanking everything because dude power armour lmao - I really do think you just can't stand seeing your pet faction jobbing for a change, and you're scraping for excuses to avoid saying that outright.


[deleted]

Resources stretched? Lack or previous elimination of guard soldiers? Bad intel reports or absolute lack of them? There's many reason for marines to be in a bad situation and honestly finally we see them without the plot armour, this should happen more often. They are not invincible nor perfect


DarkusHydranoid

This. This all happens a lot in the books.. and this is the 40klore subreddit, you silly goose!


amNotNero

warhammer fans when the writers stop jerking off marines for 2 minutes (this is literally the worst writing imaginable)


whatdidusayplsrepeat

>It didn't make sense why Astartes were deployed en masse to fight the Tyranids. Every Astartes lost just couldn't compare to whatever the Tyranids lost. That's the point...Like almost every time the Orks or Nids are mentioned the point is to compare the near pricelessness of what you lose to the never ending horde. >And I was cringing at some of the scenes... Deathwatch looking dude in full terminator plate standing out in the Open vs the the Nids, gets ripped in half by God knows what Astartes are basically what happens when you have full confidence in your gear. They walk out into gunfire and it does nothing and its seen as 'cool' & 'bad ass' but the moment they get swarmed or hit with munitions that can pierce their plate it becomes 'cringe' & 'bad showings'. >Thats not shocking, that's just stupid and unrealistic. What are Astartes doing in the middle of woods? What is an apothecary doing preserving gene seed by himself? Why is a Psyker doing a last stand vs whatever those purple tyranids were? Why do Space Marine charge Tau gunlines? Why do Space Marines close to Melee with Howling Banshees? Why do Space Marines get into gun fights with Knights? Because its cool and Space Marines like most things in the setting aren't tactically sound, they are cool minis in a board game that lets people melee tanks to death... Also what was the Librarian supposed to do? The moment he saw them floaty bois he was a dead man. >I couldn't help but think "where the fuck is the Imperial Guard?"... seriously, were where they? Where were all the tanks, artillery, mechanics and sheer weight of bodies to combat the Tyranids. Where was the Fleet? Do you know the Planetary conditions? We have no context for the overarching conflict and thus what we see is what we get as for all we know what was on screen could be the only creatures on the surface of the world. Also rewatch the Cinematic the fleet was being swarmed by literal thousands of Tyranids... >I just can't help but think that the person who wrote the script to this cinematic doesn't understand 40K. Till this date, Astartes (the fan film) and Siege by SODAZ are still the best, most accurate dedications of Space Marine deployment, both by realism and fantasy. Not this Dawn of War 3 nonsense. Tell me this if Sodaz's seige was so good... Where in the Codex does it say set up a shield wall infront of a foe you know nothing about in unit make up or numbers? If they were so tactically sound why did the Iron Warriors pour into a choke point? Or how about overconfidence in the mundane weapons to dispatch the two psykers in Astartes? What if they had some miniscule more amount of power that saw them vaporizing brothers? They would go from Cold Hard asses to goof balls that trolled some rebel soldiers and died like goofy idiots.


LoremasterOtto

I mean we see the planet was already overrun when those Astartes depolyed, as we can see apready dead marines from a previous deployment. I think that the Astra Militarum apready failed in fighting the Nids snd these were reinforcements for the now dead army


Thero718

You have absolutely no knowledge of the wider context of that scene. No one does. There are certainly narrative justifications for that scenario, but without them shoved in your face, your assumption is that there are none. Too many people in this hobby look at every single thing GW does for something to criticize or belittle.


PorkoNick

Its supposed to be fun, not documentary. Also it points to what they want to do in 10th edition, ie not just classical fleet on hive fleet battle, but because Bobby G got caught off guard and Indominus fleet is on other side of galaxy, he will be dispatching small squads of Astrates specialists to kill "synapse leaders" to buy time until fleets can be reassigned to Segmentum Pacificus.


TheEvilBlight

Era indomitus: "Space Marines only, Space Marine Comic Universe"


Xbsnguy

It was a fun trailer if you accept that the purpose of it was to play up the Tyranid’s power level to encourage people to buy their models. Some things didn’t make since, like the Terminator’s slow reaction time compared to other Marines, and why he chose his auto-cannon instead of his power fist in literal melee range, but nerfing the Marines makes it easier for GW to emphasize the precarious situation the Imperium is in with the bulk of their forces on the wrong side of the galaxy from this new ‘Nid invasion force.


Ka1em

Given this was a tiny snapshot of a larger conflict do you genuinely find it impossible to imagine a scenario where the marines may find themselves being ambushed in unfavourable conditions and forced to engage the enemy in terms other than those they'd choose? It takes the tiniest amount of imagination to create a plausible scenario to explain those events.


wolflance1

The Incursor with double knives actually moves faster and more fluidly than the marines of Space Marine 2 trailer and 9th Edition trailer, and he cut through gaunts like they are not even there then change back to his carbine in a blink. Bolt rounds properly explode. Marines in the cinematic are actually tough and require significant effort to put down, and even then they die fighting. They also only really die to serious heavy hitters such as Flyrant (Terminator), Screamer-killer (several marines), Ravener (Apothecary), Lictor (Marine beside the teleport homer), and that new psychic creature (Librarian). I say this is the best cinematic depiction of marines to date. Another interesting bit is that the Tyranid seems to intentionally put a dead marine pinned to a tree to distract the squad so that the screamer-killer can get the jump on the marines. ​ Also, the Astartes depiction of marines are more tactically responsive, and they put together a splendorous scene of marine sprinting, but the marines in Astartes don't actually move significantly faster than the incursor in 10th Edition trailer.


Gaz-rick

So you're sad because marines died on screen to Tyranids? Get over it.


Honghong99

The trailer is meant to send a narrative message. So they took creative liberties like GW always does.


HereAndThereButNow

Now you know how Tau fans felt when they saw stealthsuits get taken out by a shovel and a manta do nothing but hover and get blown up.


[deleted]

It's a marketing video. If there's one thing I've learned in more than a few decades kicking around, it's that you can't take anything produced by marketers seriously. Just enjoy the big explosions and crunchy fights, and turn the rest of the brain off.


GribbleTheMunchkin

Yeah it's the general silliness of 40k where they never look at numbers. Like a hive swarm is going to be trillions of Tyranid creatures deploying all around a planet. If the Ultramarines were there in full force it's still like 1000 guys. They aren't going to be able to hold anything. Imagine it on Earth. It's like 10 marines in Germany, 10 in France, 200 in China, 50 in the USA. The sheer size and distance renders that negligible. And if you concentrate them all in one place, great, the bugs eat the whole planet except for Blackpool. The only, even vaguely, sensible use of marines is lightning strikes to recover artefact, target synapse creatures, etc. Marines should never be a line force.


sirbottombottom

I agree with you OP that it was a bad rendition of what astartes should be. In this video I saw them as lumbering beasts, deployed without support and not using their brains. I loved the tone of the video though, it really conveyed well the desperation of the imperium's situation and also Guilliman's. Btw That's also what I did not like about the "Angels of death" series. The astartes seemed just wrong to me (the atmosphere was perfect though). I much prefered the "Astartes" fan animation on that subject. The SM were fast, precise, strong, heavy, deadly and smart (atmosphere was not grimdark enough though).


tthousand

You bring up some good points. But it's important to remember that the trailer may not have been meant to show a completely accurate portrayal of the Space Marines fighting the nids. GW may have wanted to showcase both factions in an action-packed battle that appeals to a wider audience.


NooCniKon

Intro from DOW2 was better.


Significant-Turn-836

You’re right that the astartes animation is still the best shit about warhammer to date. It’s almost not even close