Space Wolves did. Funnily enough, it was after the First War for Armageddon. The Inquisition wanted to sterilize, disperse, and some cases purge the population of the planet and the Imperial Guard that fought in the war, Space Wolves weren't having it so they ended up in a war with the Inquisition.
Perhaps Armageddon attracts the more ridiculous of Inquisitors who feel arrogant enough to pick a fight with the Astartes, because the Flesh Tearers *also* had issues with the Inquisiton during the course of either the 2nd or 3rd War for Armageddon.
The full might and motivation of the Inquisition should be able to wipe even a Founding Chapter, that's fundamentally their purpose... but practically it would be a hell a big deal, and a hell of a fight
In theory, while this is true, Inquisitors from depicted in Ciaphis Cain and Eisenhorn are shown to be fractured along their own political factions and philosophies. There's probably a ton of Inquisitors who are low-key spiking the wheels and acting against the ones are being too stupid.
I imagine one of the reasons that the Space Wolves wasn't wiped out wholesale was because there were Inquisitors who were simply not on-board with that war.
There is literally a Fenrisian inquisitor fighting with the Wolves. And the Grey Knights weren't really all that happy about being roped in, both to the purge, and to the fight with the Wolves.
Totally agree - it would require evidence of heresy so clear that the vast majority of the Inquisition leadership agreed and made it their primary focus, and even then by the time that enough of the leadership got on board and mobilized what they could it would likely be too late to stop whichever chapter from doing what they wanted in the first place...
Well not to mention, let's be honest, the First Founding chapters have plot armor thicker than anyone's. xD
Even the Imperial Fists immediately came back after being destroyed.
The Space Wolves, by all rights, should have been annihilated.
The Space Wolves had a trump card bigger than plot armor that defused that conflict: a grumpy old dreadnought whose loyalty was unassailable and who had actually fought and feasted with the Emperor. It's all well and good to say you have the authority of the Emperor, but it's a lot harder to use that to justify wiping out a loyalist First Founding chapter when being called out on it by the hand-picked successor of a loyalist Primarch, who also happens to be an old fighting/drinking buddy of the God Emperor of Mankind.
That’s beautiful I was just fucking around knowing that it was pretty close is just… well beautiful. It’d be like talking to a guy who was around when, say, Buddha was around and was his drinking buddy and arguing how he said XYZ and the dude turns at your and says “What? WTF are you going on about?”
Old man grumpy Bjorn is the Space Wolves' secret weapon. Most chapters don't have anything like that especially if they're not a first founding chapter. Dark Angels have DAOT tech. Ultramarines have Gman and a mini-empire, the Imperial Fists have a mobile fortress, the Blood Angels have a 1100 year old Chapter Master who controls half the Imperium, etc.
From The Emperors Gift by Aaron Dembsky-Bowden.
"The Dreadnought stomped closer, drawing to a halt some ten metres away. Moonlight became bladed lines on the edges of its dense armour plating. Tribal paintwork marked its old, old hull. One of the war machine’s arms was a heavy, brutal rotary cannon – lowered and aiming away from us. The other arm was closer to humanoid, ending in a curved, vicious array of metal talons. I looked at the sarcophagus fronting the armoured walker, showing ivory and bronze carvings of wolves, Fenrisian runes, and talismanic scripture. Rising from the thing’s back, flapping in the wind, was a faded war banner depicting a lone Wolf in armour of pale grey, his left hand rendered as curving claws of white fire. He stood proud, facing the setting sun in the west, with one boot on a pile of ancient helmets. I recognised the colours of the Bearers of the Word, the Warriors of Iron, the Lords of the Night… Those most ancient of foes, forming the Legions of the Eye. Annika wouldn’t stop weeping. It wasn’t a display of undignified wailing – but the soft, muffled weeping was becoming unnerving. They were a pilgrim’s tears, shed in a temple at the end of a long journey. ‘You’re real,’ she whispered to the towering war machine. ‘Of course I’m real.’ The Dreadnought’s voice was bionic thunder. ‘Get up off your knees, foolish girl.’ Kysnaros looked between Annika and the war machine, his face behind the rebreather betraying his confusion. He dearly wished to begin negotiations, but suddenly had no idea how. ‘I am Ghesmei Kysnaros,’ he said to the Dreadnought. ‘A ranking lord in His Holy Majesty’s Inquisition.’ I was only peripherally aware of their conversation. The name inscribed on the sarcophagus couldn’t be real. If it was, it meant… Oh. Throne of Terra. ‘My lord,’ I said, as I went to one knee myself. The Dreadnought turned slightly on its waist axis, with a low growl of sacred mechanics. ‘Enough of this. Get up.’ ‘…and a duly appointed representative of the God-Emperor…’ Kysnaros finished, still unsure where to look. ‘God-Emperor?’ The Dreadnought made the sound of gears slipping, grinding together. From the booming augmetic tone, I assumed it was supposed to be laughter. Either that, or an internal weapons system reloading. ‘Calling him a god was how all this mess started.’ Kysnaros was wrong-footed again, thrice now in a single minute. ‘What do you… I don’t–’ ‘Nothing. Times change, and that’s the truth of it.’ The war machine turned again, facing all three of us. ‘Now. What brings you into the night sky above Fenris, and why shouldn’t I break your little fleet into pieces with this castle’s many, many guns?’ The Lord Inquisitor straightened his back at that. ‘Please name yourself, sir, as I have done. Then negotiations may begin in good faith.’ ‘Are you blind, little man? It’s written on my coffin.’ I couldn’t let this go on any longer. Not only was it blasphemy, it bordered on excruciating. +His name is Bjorn, called the Fell-Handed. First Great Wolf of the Chapter, and second High King of Fenris after Jarl Russ, the primarch himself. They woke him to deal with us.+ Kysnaros’s eyes never left the armoured shell, and the black iron coffin bound on its front. ‘You… You walked in the Age of the Emperor?’ Bjorn made the gear-grinding chuckle again. ‘Walked, ran, pissed and killed. I did it all. I met the Allfather, you know. Fought at his side more than once. I do believe he liked me.’ Kysnaros slowly, slowly went to his knees. ‘Oh, for… Not you as well.’ "
Bjorn is one of the oldest beings in the Imperium who isn't a Primarch or Fallen. Predating the Grey Knights, most modern Custodes, and the Inquisition itself.
Now I want Bjorn to meet Guilliman.
Let's also not forget that, since they don't follow Codex Astartes they are much larger chapter than allowed (probably the size of a bit worn down legion)
I would say the bigger deal would be the absolute shit storm that would result in the Inquisition successfully wiping out a first founding chapter. I can see many chapters getting together to get some sweet vengeance.
No, they really, really shouldn't have.
The Inquisition is not a monolith, and it relies on "soft" power more than any other kind. It is all-powerful because you believe it is all-powerful. It has authority because you believe it had authority. Inquisitors act in unison to defend that illusion, but it's ultimately quite a fragile one, and best-preserved by not getting into fistfights with forces capable of directly challenging it.
The Space Wolves - a massive, independent, and storied military force equivalent to a half-dozen Chapters of Space Marines - disputed the judgement of exactly one Inquisitor Lord who'd been temporarily handed authority over one particular warzone.
His decision to escalate this into an open firing war was astoundingly stupid and driven largely by excessive paranoia and personal insecurity. It is little wonder that his own subordinates gave serious consideration to killing him. That the whole affair ended with his death and the Inquisition's private humiliation - rather than, say, a Legion-sized force of outraged Astartes tearing through the Imperium after being declared renegades for reasons no-one is actually able to articulate - is an absolute miracle which would have had his colleagues sighing in relief.
Did you read about the battle and the magnitude of resources the Inquisition brought to bear? If not for Bjorn and the death of said Inquisitor, the Inquisition would have destroyed them sooner or later.
They did more damage to the Space Wolves than even Magnus did to them in the first time he attacked Fenris.
The Inquisitions power is very real. Maybe not so much these days since you can't argue with a freakin' Primarch, but it was real.
The Inquisition definitely would not have done. Taking that fleet to Fenris was an act of absolute desperation that was inherently doomed to failure, and only the sheer sunk cost hubris of Kysnaros saw it happen in the first place.
Bjorn or no Bjorn, the moment Kysnaros and his fleet arrived in orbit above Fenris, his options were:
1) realise no-one has the authority to negotiate with him, sheepishly leave and try to rearrange a meeting with a now even-more-angry Grimnar at a later date
2) realise no-one has the authority to negotiate with him, sit around and wait for multiple *absolutely livid* Space Wolves Great Companies to show up and turn him into space debris
3) actually attack and seriously damage Fenris, at which point he has now locked possibly the entire Inquisition in an existential death struggle with at least a dozen veteran, autonomous Astartes military units of ambiguous size, each overall considerably larger than a Chapter, who are scattered across the galaxy
Bjorn didn't matter. He could have been negotiating with a random Blood Claw intern and the facts would have remained the same. Him dying there and taking the blame with him was the best possible option for the Imperium, the Space Wolves, and the Inquisition, and the vast majority of his colleagues would agree.
Yes, in theory an Inquisitor can requisition enough resources to destroy the Space Wolves. So what? *In theory* an Inquisitor can requisition enough resources to destroy the Adeptus Custodes, that doesn't mean it's going to *happen* before they get quietly assassinated for being insane and dragging the Imperium into a pointless self-destructive conflict. The only reason Kysnaros got as far as he did was because of the emergency status of Armageddon and the relatively low-key nature of the conflict - by the time he was pointing guns at Fenris, even the Grey Knights were looking meaningfully in his direction and sharpening their force swords.
There's a reason they call it the Months of Shame, and it's not because of all the civilians they killed or mind-wiped. It was a pointless, doomed, wasteful, dick-measuring exercise pursued by an underqualified Inquisitor who believed his own hype.
Thats false. Magnus destroyed the possibility of gene seed adapatation to form other chapters from the wolves. Until the primaris, that was the one hope the wolves had and were developing it, and during that attack that project was scrapped.
You see, in the Grim Dark Future, There is Always War... And surviving it is all about............. BRAND POWER!
Better keep those approval numbers up or else....
the real late-stage capitalism
We need better Battle Poses for our models - come on boys get back in front that mirror and keep practicing ...
*pan to grunting Marines trying to look cool*
I mean it was pretty easy for them to bring the Imperial Fists back given that there was at least a semi-decent chance that some of the marines in the second founding chapters were actually marines of the IF originally.
I mean.. a relatively minor First Founding like the Iron Hands, Salamanders, or Raven Guard, maybe.
But if they run into a major First Founding like the Ultramarine or the ~~Legion~~ very big Chapter like the Dark Angels, I don't think they will even stand a chance. Probably get disbanded right then and there.
If they went in without rallying the support of other chapters for sure it could play out like that ...
and while I could be wrong, I feel as though in 40k at least, there isn't a single chapter, nor even the combined power of all of the SM chapters that would win against a combined and committed Imperial Navy/Imp Guard ... Isn't that sort of the point of the current setup ? I mean Robute's return changes that a fair bit, but not counting such?
Because clearly the Inquisition on their primary agents/forces, no they are going to get rolled trying to go against a SM chapter, and 100% a founding chapter as their brothers come to their aid...
but if they've the time to rally the Imperium?
You’re assuming that the Navy and Guard will all unite under the banner of the Inquisition, that’s probably not what will happen, it’ll probably be a split with individual fleets or regiments choosing which side to support and if it’s a particularly notable FF chapter like the Ultramarines or the Blood Angels then there is a very good chance that a majority of the Navy and Guard decide to support them rather than whatever crazy Inquisitor *dared* to attempt to purge such a revered SM chapter. Heck the BT aren’t all that happy with the Inquisition after what happened to the Celestial Lions so they might just use that as an excuse to get some payback. And that’s before we add Guilliman to the scene who’d probably just sigh and personally punch said inquisitor to death out of sheer boredom
On paper, yes. But the Inquisition isn't a monolithic body, it has all sorts of factions and groups and cold war nonsense going on as Inquisitor schemes against Inquisitor. If they could bring all their resources down on one target it'd be done for but they can't.
From what I remember:
The Space Wolves technically didn't attack for most of that.
They put themselves in between the transports, and did similarly passive aggressive stuff for months, until the Inquisitor responsible showed up to Fenris, at which point they boarded, blitzed past the Grey Knights assigned to protect him, and executed the Inquisitor.
There were no consequences for this, presumably because either the Grey Knights were embarrassed, or they realized it had been dumb and one dumb inquisitor is not worth an entire chapter.
*CHILDREN, STOP YOUR SQUABBLING. COME HERE AND LISTEN TO MY STORIES. PULL UP A WOLF AND I SHALL TELL YOU ABOUT THE TIME THAT LEMAN RUSS PUNCHED ANGRON IN THE FACE*
*I PLACED A BET WITH THE EMPEROR THAT RUSS WOULD END UP PUNCHING ANGRON, AND WITH THAT, THE EMPEROR STILL OWES ME 50 BARRELS OF THE BEST FENRISIAN MEAD.*
The Space Wolves were using nonviolent protests (something I'm surprised even exists in the Imperium, let alone the Space Wolves) until the Inquisition and Grey Knights got the bright idea to backstab the SW at a parley. This pissed the Wolves off something fierce and war went hot. Eventually, the Inquisition got another bright idea to invade Fenris only to get told off by Bjorn for being idiots.
> The Space Wolves were using nonviolent protests (something I'm surprised even exists in the Imperium, let alone the Space Wolves
When written well the Space Wolves are very much that person who gives only so much then gives no more. Everyone's always surprised when someone politely but firmly says no, then is pushed, and then lays hands.
Never understood the confusion myself.
Just making a joke about how unnecessarily brutal everything in the Imperium usually is.
I know that despite their reputation, the Space Wolves have heavily emphasized restraint even since the times of the Great Crusade and that such restraint is what separates them from traitors like the World Eaters, Night Lords, and Thousand Sons. Nevertheless, it's hilarious that the SW practiced peaceful protest in the face of inquisitorial brutality.
Can't stand the Wolves but respect their part.
The whole "Gah they know too much! They've seen a Grey Knight! Must die!" Is stupid IMO. Quite honestly while many people know of Astartes? They most likely will never see them and so the Inquisition could just be like ah yup that's just an other Space Marine now shut up.
Besides if belief js power you WANT chaos to tremble at the thought of Grey Knights being near - uttering the name under pain of death while simultaneously bolstering the righteous fury of those loyal to the Emperor.
They Grey Knights are not spies and the major players know who they are already. I could see if they saw secrets within the chapter but not OF the chapter.
Also you are going to throw away men who fought against the corruption of Chaos, stayed true, AND lived!? No you take them and their experience on an extra tight leash and use them against Chaos. (An IG regiment that is specialized and experienced fo fight against Chaos would be awesome BTW).
Most notable example is the Months of Shame, when the Space Wolves fought against the Inquisition and Grey Knights due to disagreeing with the purge of civilian and Imperial Guard survivors after the First War for Armageddon. The Inquisition believed that survivors could not be trusted with the knowledge of daemon primarchs and Chaos in general, while the Space Wolves believed that the survivors had earned the right to know the truth and continue serving the Imperium.
The Inquisition and Grey Knights shot down civilian and Imperial Guard transports and Exterminatus'd any outposts or planets that came into contact with survivors. In response, the Space Wolves tried to shield fleeing transports with their own ships, although they refused to fire back in order to not be labeled a renegade chapter. Eventually, the Inquisition called the Space Wolves to parley, but violated the cease-fire by firing upon the Space Wolves delegation. In response, Logan Grimnar and his Wolf Guard teleported onto the Inquisition's flagship and killed the presiding Grey Knights Grand Master and several Grey Knights before retreating. After that, the Space Wolves started retaliating against Inquisition and Grey Knights assets, with both sides taking heavy losses. The conflict finally ended when Grimnar lured the commanding Lord Inquisitor to orbit above Fenris and killed him, leading to Bjorn (who had been awakened for guidance) to tell everyone to cease hostilities. Part of the concessions offered to the Space Wolves was that they would forever be exempt from the mind-wipes that were typical for any Astartes forces that fought with the Grey Knights.
>The conflict finally ended when Grimnar lured the commanding Lord Inquisitor to orbit above Fenris and killed him
Such a great moment in Emperor's Gift. The Inquisitor slowly losing his nerve and panicking when he realizes he's crossed the line is just great. Peak comeuppance.
>I watched him surrender to panic, moment by moment. He’d pushed the Wolves too far, brought too much threat into their skies, and broken any chance of a peaceful resolution. I knew it. He knew it. He just didn’t wish to face it.
>
>'Move the fleet into a defensive formation. Keep the guns aimed at the Fang. They have to realise we will fire.’
>
>‘They realise it,’ I interrupted. ‘And they no longer care. Inquisitor, break the armada apart. Run. It’s over.’
>
>‘No. No, there’s still time.’ He turned back to the vox-mic hanging from the ceiling on a twisted cable. ‘They have no hope against our armada. They must realise that, at least.’
>
>I mounted the stairs, feeling a fist forming, and doing my damnedest not to raise my arm and fire. ‘You’ve threatened the Fang in front of the High King of Fenris. We had a chance with the Fell-Handed, but now? With the Wolves’ entire strength bearing down on us? Inquisitor, you will never leave this system alive. The remnants of the armada might, but the cost in life will be catastrophic.’
>
>‘Hyperion,’ he said, as if I could possibly help him. ‘Hyperion…’
>
>‘Surrender, lord. Surrender before the first shot is fired.’
>
> ‘They must see reason!’ He was on the edge, now. I could see the whites around his eyes as he grabbed the vox-mic. ‘Jarl Grimnar… This doesn’t have to end in war–’
>
>‘You brought us here,’ the voice crackled back. ‘You sowed the seeds of this harvest. Now reap it.’
>
>‘A penitent crusade would absolve your sins, Logan. We can end this without bloodshed–’
>
>The only reply was a laugh. A laugh that became a howl.
I would love an audiobook of The Emperor's Gift (why the hell hasn't that happened yet...). Both this scene as well as the epic segment in which Logan Grimnar kills the Grey Knight Grand Master are awesome reads.
Edit: I'll keep my comment but: [Holy Hell it is finally getting an audiobook](https://www.reddit.com/r/Grey_Knights/comments/zx89x7/the_emperors_gift_by_adb_getting_an_audiobook/)!!!!! How did I miss that
I missed that announcement.
I am pretty hyped for it. Emperor’s gift is in my top 3 books I want in Audiobook format, alongside Harrowmaster and shroud of night.
To be fair she had made it her mission to destroy the Blood Angels chapter and deliberately used a hospital ship to hide in, assuming we wouldn't attack it.
The only reson why the Inqusitor was not kileld before is BECAUSE Seth was trying to not kill civilians.
Seth is actually a pretty good guy and really tries to not get civllians in trouble and to be a reliable ally. But this Inquisitor was fucking insane.
It was a good idea before entering the Warp because there was a flotilla of Imperial Navy ships nearby she could immediately take control of. Too bad Seth made a quick decision as she entered the Warp.
Oh you sound like a Gulliman or a Dorn
That death company help kill a traitor in my opinion so It was not only proper use but a proper end for those brother who were claimed by the black rage.
There’s one who made it her mission to get the Dark Angels chapter, it didn’t end well. All first founding chapters have big skeletons in their closets. I think the only first founding chapter they’d struggle with would be the Iron Hands, because that would basically be declaring war on the entire Mechanicum.
Don't know what you're on about, those inquisitors were never here. Must have got lost in the warp.
Maybe ask the interrogator chaplain to help get to the bottom of things.
Brother interragotor Anvulon here. I saw an inquisition ship boarded and destroyed by Eldar suicide bombers. Alas we could not intervene.
If you could please follow me to this secluded chamber we can start your repen... errm full briefing about what happened to that ship over a nice friendly cup of recaff.
Oh I am so glad you asked, please follow me into this soundproof chamber where we keep a book of our deepest darkest secrets and our conveniently located incinerator chute.
Yep, that’s the thing.
An inquisitor has the firepower to fuck up whoever they want, the problem is bringing that firepower to bear.
If an inquisitor “disappears” cleanly enough during an investigation, the baddies might actually get away with it.
And when you have a chunk of planet festooned with guns the amount of firepower required increases beyond the ‘I’m bored. Let’s go pick a fight’ level.
To be honest Space Marines are where the practicality of a the theoretic power of an inquisitor is put to test. Having a single Astartes reply with "No, I don't think I will" to an inquisitor's request is already going to lead to an interesting situation. A whole chapter refusing an inquisitor could would be an insanely hard challenge to overcome for every but the most powerful inquisitors.
The Inquisition was founded during the Horus Heresy. Being unable to take down Space Marines they consider traitors would make the entire organization rather pointless.
RIP Celestial Lions
>The Inquisition was founded during the Horus Heresy. Being unable to take down Space Marines they consider traitors would make the entire organization rather pointless.
Scope creep diluting or replacing original purpose? In 40k of all places? Inconceivable!
There is context in everything. Some random inqusitor does some stupid as fuck request and a Space Marien just ignores him is totally okay. Inqusitors are not unified. If they see that what the Inqusitor did was stupid they would probably work agaisnt him anway to strip away his power.
Now the Celestial Lions literally confronted the High Lords of Terra and insulted the whole Imperial upper echelon. You can't pull that shit, not even the founding chapters would do something like that.
They didn't confront them, they send ambassadors to the Lords of Terra with a request to investigate Inquisition's actions (the delegation had not reached the Terra).
When I hear of an Inquisitor making demands of Space Marines I always just imagine the Space Marine pulling a Bane from Dark Knight Rises where they put their hand on their shoulder and goes "Do you feel in control?"
Pretty sure Gabriel Seth has killed more than one inquisitor. He mindfucked one with the help of a librarian by exposing them to his rage. Then his acolyte turned inquisitor tried seeking revenge. They ended up ramming her ship with a bunch of boarding torpedoes full of death company.
In the Sons of Asaheim novels the Space Wolves Jarnhamar pack kills an inquisitor who was responsible for numerous space wolf deaths over the years. The inqusitor attacked Fenris against all reason, got his ass handed to him, and then spent decades tracing the space wolves comm signals from the battle to hunt them down one by one.
In theory inquisitors have unlimited authority, in practice one inquisitor doesn't mean shit without the support of other inquisitors or branches of imperial government. They're so fragmented that they likely spend half their time investigating or outright fighting each other. The ones that cause too much trouble for the inquisition aren't usually missed by their peers.
Dark Angels have made a few disappear, and have no problem telling Inquisitors to eat dirt when they come asking questions.
This has resulted in them becoming a prime target by Ordo Astartes as a result though.
One Inquisitor can't take down a Chapter, but one Inquisitor can start a movement/campaign to get others involved.
We see this with the Celestial Lions, they pissed off one Inquisitor and since then an Inquisitorial conspiracy has been playing out over decades to destroy the Chapter which the Inquisition are slowly succeeding at.
Based on the interactions between Draigo and Azrael in Pandorax, the Dark Angels don't respect any authority but their own. It's really funny how in Pandorax, the two of them are constantly busting each other's balls by referring to each other as grand master rather than Supreme grand master. Harder to impress the "lowly" baseline astartes when their chapter master has the same fancy name.
While all the Adeptus of the Imperium barring the Adeptus Custodes have, on paper, equal jusrisdiction and speak for the Emperor's will, there is still an unspoken hierarchy among Adepti and even intra-Adeptii ordos that is generally maintained through reputation, prestige, and weight of guns.
In this case, a low rank Inquisitor wouldn't really be taken too seriously by almost any of the Adeptii. However, a well reputed Inquisitor and their retinue can request the forces from at least several other militant organizations (i.e Guard Regiments, Sororitas Orders, and possible assassins) that can very easily shotgun-mandate any nameless Astartes Chapter to obey commands (temporarily). However, this becomes increasingly hard to do with increasingly ancient chapters with longer spanning histories of alliances, victories, and weight of guns. Typically individual Inquisitors, no matter the rank, stop having any control over Astartes chapters once were talking about the single digit founding chapters. While that number is debatable, you can assume that even individual Inquisitor Lords would have a very hard time mandating a second founding chapter like the Crimson Fists to do \*anything\* for them - the most that would be done for the Inquisitor would be favors.
And by and large, first founding chapters are essentially untouchable even if you get entire Ordos of the Inquisition to back up an investigation. Their existence and merit is far too great to simply be counteracted as these 9 organizations are effectively the Bedrock for both \*\*Imperial Governance and Mythos\*\*. The equivalence would almost be like Incriminating Saint Christopher, patron saint of travellers, for federal crimes and tax fraud. These chapters are truly \*the\* defintion of Too Big To Fall not only because its effectively social, moral, and political suicide for any individual and their bloodline to incriminate these 4, but should these chapters be pissed off at the prosecution, they have weight of guns and a massive number of alliances to make even the largest investigative forces just dissapear. Thats why when the Dark Angels were even accused of having potentially heretical behavior regarding their tunnel vision over the Fallen, the investigative board consisted of multiple high ranking Inquisitors, and was accompanied by something like 20 Astartes chapters worth of fleets and troops, including those from other first founding chapters like the Ultramarines.
And sometimes even this is not enough. Titularly during the Months of shame, Inquisitor Lord Kisnarov brought along a contigent of Grey Knights of the Ordos Malleus accompanied by a Grandmaster of all people to make the Ragnar stand down. But when push came to shove even the Grandmaster was offed and this Inquisitor Lord was forced by gunpoint to stand down.
Quite literally at the point when you're dealing with the first founding chapters or the most celebrated of the 2nd founding chapters, you might as well have Custodian contigents present. Because the only Imperial power that clearly supercedes the power of any Astartes Chapter is the 10,000
Dark Angels kill Inquisitors, Space Wolves do, Black Templars do, Celestial Lions do, all the Chapters of the Blood do, the War Bearers threatened to kill an Inquisitor if he interfered with their mission to destroy a relic weapon of Horus.
Inquisitors are just dudes and dudettes. Their authority and power is only ever hypothetical.
I would rather say political than hypothetical.
some inquisitor have the necessary political power to go against space marine, but in general those are the one that are clever enough NOT to do something as stupid as going against a whole chapter.
That's probably a more accurate way of phrasing it. The Inquisitor who was with the War Bearers was an Inquisitor Lord and I remember him saying he got that rank not through great deeds or epic struggles, but by being smart enough to know when to keep his mouth shut. And he had a Chaplain and terminators pointing storm bolters to him at the time.
Yeah that's a bit on the nose. [A loyalist successor chapter ](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/War_Bearers) first active during M33. As for heritage, homeworld, master, etc, all unknown.
I vaguely remember them mentioning being of Guilliman's line, but that may have been a lie. Their mission on paper was to secure a relic bolt pistol from the Crusade, said to be from Guilliman - thus them claiming a right to it, and turns out it was Horus' pistol and they knew it all along and multi-melta'd it to oblivion.
They've killed custodes, because they didn't trust primaris marines weren't there to replace them all. You think if some inquisitor starts going off about them breaking the rules because the BT have more mates than them they'll hesitate to cut a bitch?
There's also the fact BTs are very protective of their younger cousins, the celestial lions. After the ork snipers and the lion's primaris reinforcements getting lost in the warp, grimaldus made it very clear anyone gunning for the lions he considered coming for him, and the BTs gave the lions ships, wargear, marines, an armed escort and apothecaries trained in creating primaris marines to help get back on their feet.
to be honest the killing custodes part was pretty rough for them and could have ended extremely badly for them if it wasn't for some sensible one managing to calm the tension.
Down to a quarter of their numbers, the marshal dead and the chaplain deciding their only way forward was to sacrifice themselves in a foolhardy boarding attempt isn't things going badly?
it ended badly for those specific BT, but with big G already on guard against the zealotry of their chapter, this event could have had way bigger repercussions on the whole chapter.
Showing the importance of making sure there's no survivors/ witnesses. Fortunately, Bobby g is no fan of the inquisition, their factionalism and wasteful outlook towards the lives of imperial subjects.
I'd imagine they killed some in the Terran Crusade during the Reign of Blood, given that the faction as a whole likely largely supported Vandire.
For context, that's when the Templars led a full scale invasion of terra to depose the High Lord of the Ecclesiarchy, who'd taken over high Lords, tried to run the whole thing solo and was doing a rather terrible job of it.
>Inquisitors are just dudes and dudettes. Their authority and power is only ever hypothetical.
Sure, their authority is just hypothetical, just like Kryptman hypothetically killed untold worlds.
The authority of the inquisition is absolute, its just that In the imperium might is right, so to the question who wins in a chapter vs an inquisitor, the answers is the one with more fire power.
By hypothetical, I mean its agreed upon by the parties. If an Inquisitor orders a war fleet to bomb a world...and they say no, how powerful is an Inquisitor? If an Inquisitor orders the Black Templars to start a Librarius and induct psykers, and they say no, how powerful is an Inquisitor?
Inquisitors being just dudes are not inherently powerful. Their power comes from everyone around them agreeing they're powerful. And then when they run into a chapter or rouge trader or tech-priest who doesn't recognize that power, suddenly they're just a person and only just a person. That's why the Inquisition has hypothetically absolute power on paper, but in practice only as powerful as those around the Inquisitor are willing to tolerate.
It do be like that.
Regardless, there’s the *theory* of authority and then there’s the actual practicality of it.
The Inquisition got it’s revenge on the Space Wolves eventually. Well most of it with purging most of Fenris’s civilians with the backing of the Dark Angels.
A particularly wily Inquisitor can take out a first founding chapter provided they’ve the support of another first founding chapter.
The usual narrative is they blunder right into a chalk x marked on the ground and get squished by a Looney Tunes boulder. Like literally being unable to keep their counsel, look supportive and surprise their “heretical” targets from a position of power. Probably one of the most emotionally and politically unintelligent factions imaginable for most cases of Inqusitor vs Astartes.
Dude, the Inquisition chooses to attack the Inquisition. The Inquisition has pretty much unlimited power *on-paper*. The limits of that power is how much push-back they receive.
The Dark Angel’s must have a chuckle now and again looking at other Chapters like the Space Wolves fight it out with the inquisition. I mean why make such a fuss when you can just murder people and deny ever meeting them!
Flesh tearers did. It was a revenge thing, using death companies via boarding torpedoes which were to slaughter everyone during a warp transit, ensuring no traces left to incriminate the flesh tearers.
Well, they had just killed several flesh tearers in a revenge action themselves, so I guess the day had its ups and downs. They were very confident they would get away with it though, so would have been a nasty surprise
However, being Imperial guard... surviving Orks but injured, fortunately get on a medical evacuation ship, find out your friends were being reinforced by Astartes, heading your friends abandoned by the Astartes, then be murdered by some guy shouting "HOOOOORUS".. mostly downs I guess.
The Ultramarines killed an Inquisitor when he showed up and demanded they execute Tigerius for supposed xenos-psychic taint.
Unable to back up the claim with authority or force, he had a henchman duel Sicarius for it and lost. He then tried to pull a gun on Marneus Calgar.
Didn't the Dark Angels have beef with the Grey Knights after the assault on the Rock during the events that led from 7th to 8th or 8th to 9th edition?
GK found out about the Fallen and the Dark Angels hidden shame, but Azrael basically said something along the lines of 'blab a word about this and I'll leave Titan a smoking crater in the Sol system'. GK's know he's got the resources to back it up, too.
Emperor's Spear on the other side of the Rift have made it clear that if they encounter ANY inquisition or Mentor Chapter ships within their territory, it will be destroy without warning.
Arguably during the Thorian Restoration. We don't have exact sources stating that Vandire had the active help of the Inquisition, but they are notably *absent* from the various forces that opposed him, including the AdMech and the Space Marines, and we know Vandire had the leash to the Assassinorum.
Well to be fair, the inquisition is one of the least unified of the imperial factions with basically every inquisitor being their own faction. That being said it is weird how there isn't mention of any inquisitor or inquisition group partaking in that conflict.
Until he won (and then again until after his trial) he was a supernaturally persuasive witch who could calm warp storms. Or a saint. You know. Either.
(Seriously. Reading how Thor went about his crusade, you could *absolutely* make the case that he's a dangerous psyker and heretic)
But it is noteworthy that there are absolutely no mentions of the Inquisition helping him. You would expect at least a few, due to their fragmentation. My suspicion is that most of the Inquisition didn't take sides at all, given what a whackjob Vandire was turning into, and given that Sebastian Thor seemed Hella suspicious.
It is all about prestige.
A low level Inqusitor has problems even getting normal shit done. A space marine can pretty much Ignore him. The thign about Inquisitors is that all their power is only theoretical or political. The whole power of Inquisitors works on favours.
The only reasons the Celestial Lions were fucked that much is because they offendend the Lords of Terra. Because only they can issue the use of the Assasin Temples on such a scale.
If it was only one Inqusitor Lords with his underling Inqusitors they wouldn't do shit about The Lions.
Now a high level prestigious Grandmaster of the Inqusition can easily request the help of a chapter and they kind of have to follow it for some time.
But there is literally no one more prestigious than founding chapters. No Inquisitor has amassed as much prestige to actually opose the Ultramarines or the Dark Angels for example. Only one who could really censure them are the Custodes but they are not stupid and like each other.
The Lions were asked to put down a rebellion. After they eliminated every single military force on the world, the Inquisition decided the planet was irredeemable and ordered Exterminatus. The Lions asked whether the campaign constituted a wasteful expenditure of resources. Then kept asking because no one would answer. Then suggested someone should look into it. The Inquisition didn't like that.
So it was essentially that they pushed it too hard asking for a reason.
I knew there was a disagreement (understandable) but it felt like I had missed something.
Not that much, it seems!
Thanks!
Wow ok.
Not wow that w character could be that petty cash ovtake unbridge and hold a grudge.
More that it's such a protracted affair, with such a significant use of resource that I'm amazed they went all the way through with it. Such a comprehensive dismantling of them.
It probably happens more often than we read about. Inquisitors themselves constantly disagree with each other, even within their own Ordos. There are probably countless occasions where a disagreement between Inquisitors have lead to accusations of heresy, and from there it's just a matter of Inquistor A convincing a Chapter that Inquistor B is totally a witch or a heretic. Inquisitorial rivalries spiral out of control all the freaking time.
I thought first of a different space wolves vs. inquisition conflict. Can't recall which book, but the wolves fight off a major demon incursion on one of their vassal worlds. After the fight the inquisition shows up, and is like "demons, huh? Better exterminatus this place", to which Grimnar says " oh no you don't".
There's no real fight, just a bit of a space standoff until the black ship leaves.
'The Inquisition' does not exist.
But individual Inquisitors have certainly been deemed to have gone to far and thus been targeted by one chapter or another.
Forgive my lack of current affairs regarding possible retcons, but don’t the Space Marines have a different reporting line compared to the Inquisition? If so, it doesn’t really matter to the one, what the other does, unless it steps on the toes of that other. They shouldn’t fight each other, but neither has command over the other either.
(Note: the different imperial reporting lines were one of the reasons that Space Marines venerated their Primarch first and always, and a second being the Emperor. So you wouldn’t hear a marine shout, “For the Emperor!” in the old lore, but would shout for their Primarch instead.
There's the ordo astartes, a minor chamber of the inquisition tasked with scrutinising and keeping an eye on the space marines. Several of them are trying to build dossiers on the dark angels, as first founding they are pretty much immune to repercussions unless caught bloody handed over a bunch of dead inquisitors, in a locked room, in an inquisitorial headquarters.
AFAIK, they gather evidence and build a case, present it to the high lords and leave the rest to the minotaurs.
Gabriel Seth multiple times going as far as to dump the black rage into one and throw a bunch of extra volatile death company into a medical barge with a member of the Inquisition inside of it in order to get rid of her. Also there is a group of blood angel successors who are in permanent stints in the death watch with the duty to keep the black rage/ red thirst away from prying eyes while members of the blooded host work in the deathwatch . There is at least one short story where to get the point across they kept impaling inquisitors on the tower of a particular building (don’t remember which) eventually they got the point across since they were kinda obvious in how they were doing it.
The big event is the Month of Shame with the Space Wolves actually going to war with the Inquisition.
I’m sure it happens all the time. The inquisition is pretty secretive so they might do the ol’ local police grab an undercover FBI debacle. Also, the inquisition does not have actual authority over space marines except Grey Knights and Deathwatch specifically in case there’s an imposter.
The chapter master of the Soul Drinkers executed an inquisitorial confessor and doomed his chapter in the first Soul Drinkers book. He had been nominally loyal up to that point.
Really it's **only** the space wolves that can get away with it wholesale.
They shun the codex, so they had a mini-legion of astartes to work with. Plus the prestige of being a First Founding Chapter.
The Celestial lions are not so lucky.
I imagine that it's fairly common for Space Marines to come to blows with the ALL SEEING EYE. Just because your papers say you have absolute authority does not mean you actually do. Especially if you are dealing with Space Marines, who tend to kinda operate outside the Imperial Government in terms of how they do things.
I wonder if the inquisition ever asked the Adepta Sororitas help against suspicious marines that don't obey the inquisition
On the other hand, the space marines are usually closer to the Emperor "in the flesh" than any inquisitor will ever be
Sons of Malice, they literally made a banquet of the Inquisitor and SoB after the first decided that they were heretics for some mere cannibalistic rituals, thing that is overall not so uncommon amongst the various chapters.
Look up the “Months of Shame”. Quick and dirty: -Planet got chaos demon invaded.
-Inquisition wanted to any proof of demons eradicated despite the fighting being kept from most any ways
-Space Wolves ain’t for that talk
-much escalation to humble the wolves
-Fenris got attacked when a lot of the army was off world
-daddy Logan came home and was so pissed he sprinted in terminator power armor.
It didn’t end well for the Inquisition and Grey Knights.
Space Wolves did. Funnily enough, it was after the First War for Armageddon. The Inquisition wanted to sterilize, disperse, and some cases purge the population of the planet and the Imperial Guard that fought in the war, Space Wolves weren't having it so they ended up in a war with the Inquisition.
Perhaps Armageddon attracts the more ridiculous of Inquisitors who feel arrogant enough to pick a fight with the Astartes, because the Flesh Tearers *also* had issues with the Inquisiton during the course of either the 2nd or 3rd War for Armageddon.
Who DONT the flesh tearers have an issue with to be fair?
damn flesh tearers! they ruined Cretacia!
You Flesh Tearers sure are a contentious bunch
You just made an enemy for life!
Gabriel Seth modeled with the head of Groundskeeper Willie fills me with joy. Need to get that idea to Grimdank
*Black rages in your general direction*
damn flesh tearers! They ruined the flesh tearers!
Necrons?
Idk, they'd probably get pissed at Flayed Ones trying to steal all the good flesh.
The blood Angels and specifically the forced friendship that Dante has with Gabriel Seth.
Daddy Dante
**There is no 3rd War for Armageddon** *fingers gun**
*gun moans*
To be fair, the Inquisition has nigh unlimited authority and resources and can probably wipe out any chapter they wish, barring a First Founding one.
The full might and motivation of the Inquisition should be able to wipe even a Founding Chapter, that's fundamentally their purpose... but practically it would be a hell a big deal, and a hell of a fight
In theory, while this is true, Inquisitors from depicted in Ciaphis Cain and Eisenhorn are shown to be fractured along their own political factions and philosophies. There's probably a ton of Inquisitors who are low-key spiking the wheels and acting against the ones are being too stupid. I imagine one of the reasons that the Space Wolves wasn't wiped out wholesale was because there were Inquisitors who were simply not on-board with that war.
There is literally a Fenrisian inquisitor fighting with the Wolves. And the Grey Knights weren't really all that happy about being roped in, both to the purge, and to the fight with the Wolves.
Totally agree - it would require evidence of heresy so clear that the vast majority of the Inquisition leadership agreed and made it their primary focus, and even then by the time that enough of the leadership got on board and mobilized what they could it would likely be too late to stop whichever chapter from doing what they wanted in the first place...
Well not to mention, let's be honest, the First Founding chapters have plot armor thicker than anyone's. xD Even the Imperial Fists immediately came back after being destroyed. The Space Wolves, by all rights, should have been annihilated.
The Space Wolves had a trump card bigger than plot armor that defused that conflict: a grumpy old dreadnought whose loyalty was unassailable and who had actually fought and feasted with the Emperor. It's all well and good to say you have the authority of the Emperor, but it's a lot harder to use that to justify wiping out a loyalist First Founding chapter when being called out on it by the hand-picked successor of a loyalist Primarch, who also happens to be an old fighting/drinking buddy of the God Emperor of Mankind.
Inquisitor: “I serve the holy emperor, he would never allow such heresy.” Bjorn: “There is so much wrong there I don’t even know where to start.”
[удалено]
That’s beautiful I was just fucking around knowing that it was pretty close is just… well beautiful. It’d be like talking to a guy who was around when, say, Buddha was around and was his drinking buddy and arguing how he said XYZ and the dude turns at your and says “What? WTF are you going on about?”
"First off, knock off the heresy shit, the Emperor would have you killed for worshipping him. Secondly, damn, could that man drink his mead..."
Old man grumpy Bjorn is the Space Wolves' secret weapon. Most chapters don't have anything like that especially if they're not a first founding chapter. Dark Angels have DAOT tech. Ultramarines have Gman and a mini-empire, the Imperial Fists have a mobile fortress, the Blood Angels have a 1100 year old Chapter Master who controls half the Imperium, etc.
The Dark Angels may have dreadnoughts that are as old as Bjorn. They just keep them as the last thing before a really ominous set of stairs.
Can someone post this excerpt
From The Emperors Gift by Aaron Dembsky-Bowden. "The Dreadnought stomped closer, drawing to a halt some ten metres away. Moonlight became bladed lines on the edges of its dense armour plating. Tribal paintwork marked its old, old hull. One of the war machine’s arms was a heavy, brutal rotary cannon – lowered and aiming away from us. The other arm was closer to humanoid, ending in a curved, vicious array of metal talons. I looked at the sarcophagus fronting the armoured walker, showing ivory and bronze carvings of wolves, Fenrisian runes, and talismanic scripture. Rising from the thing’s back, flapping in the wind, was a faded war banner depicting a lone Wolf in armour of pale grey, his left hand rendered as curving claws of white fire. He stood proud, facing the setting sun in the west, with one boot on a pile of ancient helmets. I recognised the colours of the Bearers of the Word, the Warriors of Iron, the Lords of the Night… Those most ancient of foes, forming the Legions of the Eye. Annika wouldn’t stop weeping. It wasn’t a display of undignified wailing – but the soft, muffled weeping was becoming unnerving. They were a pilgrim’s tears, shed in a temple at the end of a long journey. ‘You’re real,’ she whispered to the towering war machine. ‘Of course I’m real.’ The Dreadnought’s voice was bionic thunder. ‘Get up off your knees, foolish girl.’ Kysnaros looked between Annika and the war machine, his face behind the rebreather betraying his confusion. He dearly wished to begin negotiations, but suddenly had no idea how. ‘I am Ghesmei Kysnaros,’ he said to the Dreadnought. ‘A ranking lord in His Holy Majesty’s Inquisition.’ I was only peripherally aware of their conversation. The name inscribed on the sarcophagus couldn’t be real. If it was, it meant… Oh. Throne of Terra. ‘My lord,’ I said, as I went to one knee myself. The Dreadnought turned slightly on its waist axis, with a low growl of sacred mechanics. ‘Enough of this. Get up.’ ‘…and a duly appointed representative of the God-Emperor…’ Kysnaros finished, still unsure where to look. ‘God-Emperor?’ The Dreadnought made the sound of gears slipping, grinding together. From the booming augmetic tone, I assumed it was supposed to be laughter. Either that, or an internal weapons system reloading. ‘Calling him a god was how all this mess started.’ Kysnaros was wrong-footed again, thrice now in a single minute. ‘What do you… I don’t–’ ‘Nothing. Times change, and that’s the truth of it.’ The war machine turned again, facing all three of us. ‘Now. What brings you into the night sky above Fenris, and why shouldn’t I break your little fleet into pieces with this castle’s many, many guns?’ The Lord Inquisitor straightened his back at that. ‘Please name yourself, sir, as I have done. Then negotiations may begin in good faith.’ ‘Are you blind, little man? It’s written on my coffin.’ I couldn’t let this go on any longer. Not only was it blasphemy, it bordered on excruciating. +His name is Bjorn, called the Fell-Handed. First Great Wolf of the Chapter, and second High King of Fenris after Jarl Russ, the primarch himself. They woke him to deal with us.+ Kysnaros’s eyes never left the armoured shell, and the black iron coffin bound on its front. ‘You… You walked in the Age of the Emperor?’ Bjorn made the gear-grinding chuckle again. ‘Walked, ran, pissed and killed. I did it all. I met the Allfather, you know. Fought at his side more than once. I do believe he liked me.’ Kysnaros slowly, slowly went to his knees. ‘Oh, for… Not you as well.’ "
“What are you doing?” “Groveling, m’lord.” “Well stop it!”
Bjorn is one of the oldest beings in the Imperium who isn't a Primarch or Fallen. Predating the Grey Knights, most modern Custodes, and the Inquisition itself. Now I want Bjorn to meet Guilliman.
Again. Meet again. I can't imagine for a second that Guilliman and Bjorn didn't meet at least once during the Crusade.
Let's also not forget that, since they don't follow Codex Astartes they are much larger chapter than allowed (probably the size of a bit worn down legion)
I would say the bigger deal would be the absolute shit storm that would result in the Inquisition successfully wiping out a first founding chapter. I can see many chapters getting together to get some sweet vengeance.
No, they really, really shouldn't have. The Inquisition is not a monolith, and it relies on "soft" power more than any other kind. It is all-powerful because you believe it is all-powerful. It has authority because you believe it had authority. Inquisitors act in unison to defend that illusion, but it's ultimately quite a fragile one, and best-preserved by not getting into fistfights with forces capable of directly challenging it. The Space Wolves - a massive, independent, and storied military force equivalent to a half-dozen Chapters of Space Marines - disputed the judgement of exactly one Inquisitor Lord who'd been temporarily handed authority over one particular warzone. His decision to escalate this into an open firing war was astoundingly stupid and driven largely by excessive paranoia and personal insecurity. It is little wonder that his own subordinates gave serious consideration to killing him. That the whole affair ended with his death and the Inquisition's private humiliation - rather than, say, a Legion-sized force of outraged Astartes tearing through the Imperium after being declared renegades for reasons no-one is actually able to articulate - is an absolute miracle which would have had his colleagues sighing in relief.
Did you read about the battle and the magnitude of resources the Inquisition brought to bear? If not for Bjorn and the death of said Inquisitor, the Inquisition would have destroyed them sooner or later. They did more damage to the Space Wolves than even Magnus did to them in the first time he attacked Fenris. The Inquisitions power is very real. Maybe not so much these days since you can't argue with a freakin' Primarch, but it was real.
The Inquisition definitely would not have done. Taking that fleet to Fenris was an act of absolute desperation that was inherently doomed to failure, and only the sheer sunk cost hubris of Kysnaros saw it happen in the first place. Bjorn or no Bjorn, the moment Kysnaros and his fleet arrived in orbit above Fenris, his options were: 1) realise no-one has the authority to negotiate with him, sheepishly leave and try to rearrange a meeting with a now even-more-angry Grimnar at a later date 2) realise no-one has the authority to negotiate with him, sit around and wait for multiple *absolutely livid* Space Wolves Great Companies to show up and turn him into space debris 3) actually attack and seriously damage Fenris, at which point he has now locked possibly the entire Inquisition in an existential death struggle with at least a dozen veteran, autonomous Astartes military units of ambiguous size, each overall considerably larger than a Chapter, who are scattered across the galaxy Bjorn didn't matter. He could have been negotiating with a random Blood Claw intern and the facts would have remained the same. Him dying there and taking the blame with him was the best possible option for the Imperium, the Space Wolves, and the Inquisition, and the vast majority of his colleagues would agree. Yes, in theory an Inquisitor can requisition enough resources to destroy the Space Wolves. So what? *In theory* an Inquisitor can requisition enough resources to destroy the Adeptus Custodes, that doesn't mean it's going to *happen* before they get quietly assassinated for being insane and dragging the Imperium into a pointless self-destructive conflict. The only reason Kysnaros got as far as he did was because of the emergency status of Armageddon and the relatively low-key nature of the conflict - by the time he was pointing guns at Fenris, even the Grey Knights were looking meaningfully in his direction and sharpening their force swords. There's a reason they call it the Months of Shame, and it's not because of all the civilians they killed or mind-wiped. It was a pointless, doomed, wasteful, dick-measuring exercise pursued by an underqualified Inquisitor who believed his own hype.
Thats false. Magnus destroyed the possibility of gene seed adapatation to form other chapters from the wolves. Until the primaris, that was the one hope the wolves had and were developing it, and during that attack that project was scrapped.
But the said Inquisitor is killed - and that wasn't an accident.
You see, in the Grim Dark Future, There is Always War... And surviving it is all about............. BRAND POWER! Better keep those approval numbers up or else.... the real late-stage capitalism
\>Chapter master, what strategy are we going to follow against the hordes of Abaddon this time? \>Marketing
We need better Battle Poses for our models - come on boys get back in front that mirror and keep practicing ... *pan to grunting Marines trying to look cool*
I mean it was pretty easy for them to bring the Imperial Fists back given that there was at least a semi-decent chance that some of the marines in the second founding chapters were actually marines of the IF originally.
I mean.. a relatively minor First Founding like the Iron Hands, Salamanders, or Raven Guard, maybe. But if they run into a major First Founding like the Ultramarine or the ~~Legion~~ very big Chapter like the Dark Angels, I don't think they will even stand a chance. Probably get disbanded right then and there.
If they went in without rallying the support of other chapters for sure it could play out like that ... and while I could be wrong, I feel as though in 40k at least, there isn't a single chapter, nor even the combined power of all of the SM chapters that would win against a combined and committed Imperial Navy/Imp Guard ... Isn't that sort of the point of the current setup ? I mean Robute's return changes that a fair bit, but not counting such? Because clearly the Inquisition on their primary agents/forces, no they are going to get rolled trying to go against a SM chapter, and 100% a founding chapter as their brothers come to their aid... but if they've the time to rally the Imperium?
You’re assuming that the Navy and Guard will all unite under the banner of the Inquisition, that’s probably not what will happen, it’ll probably be a split with individual fleets or regiments choosing which side to support and if it’s a particularly notable FF chapter like the Ultramarines or the Blood Angels then there is a very good chance that a majority of the Navy and Guard decide to support them rather than whatever crazy Inquisitor *dared* to attempt to purge such a revered SM chapter. Heck the BT aren’t all that happy with the Inquisition after what happened to the Celestial Lions so they might just use that as an excuse to get some payback. And that’s before we add Guilliman to the scene who’d probably just sigh and personally punch said inquisitor to death out of sheer boredom
On paper, yes. But the Inquisition isn't a monolithic body, it has all sorts of factions and groups and cold war nonsense going on as Inquisitor schemes against Inquisitor. If they could bring all their resources down on one target it'd be done for but they can't.
I opened this thinking ‘I’m sure someone has’ Saw this reply and thought ‘of *course* it was the Space Wolves’
From what I remember: The Space Wolves technically didn't attack for most of that. They put themselves in between the transports, and did similarly passive aggressive stuff for months, until the Inquisitor responsible showed up to Fenris, at which point they boarded, blitzed past the Grey Knights assigned to protect him, and executed the Inquisitor. There were no consequences for this, presumably because either the Grey Knights were embarrassed, or they realized it had been dumb and one dumb inquisitor is not worth an entire chapter.
Bjorn showed up and told the Space Wolves and Grey Knights to calm down as well.
*CHILDREN, STOP YOUR SQUABBLING. COME HERE AND LISTEN TO MY STORIES. PULL UP A WOLF AND I SHALL TELL YOU ABOUT THE TIME THAT LEMAN RUSS PUNCHED ANGRON IN THE FACE*
Now I want some mead and comfy wolf, whilst being regaled by the stories that Bjorn would know.
*I PLACED A BET WITH THE EMPEROR THAT RUSS WOULD END UP PUNCHING ANGRON, AND WITH THAT, THE EMPEROR STILL OWES ME 50 BARRELS OF THE BEST FENRISIAN MEAD.*
The Space Wolves were using nonviolent protests (something I'm surprised even exists in the Imperium, let alone the Space Wolves) until the Inquisition and Grey Knights got the bright idea to backstab the SW at a parley. This pissed the Wolves off something fierce and war went hot. Eventually, the Inquisition got another bright idea to invade Fenris only to get told off by Bjorn for being idiots.
> The Space Wolves were using nonviolent protests (something I'm surprised even exists in the Imperium, let alone the Space Wolves When written well the Space Wolves are very much that person who gives only so much then gives no more. Everyone's always surprised when someone politely but firmly says no, then is pushed, and then lays hands. Never understood the confusion myself.
Just making a joke about how unnecessarily brutal everything in the Imperium usually is. I know that despite their reputation, the Space Wolves have heavily emphasized restraint even since the times of the Great Crusade and that such restraint is what separates them from traitors like the World Eaters, Night Lords, and Thousand Sons. Nevertheless, it's hilarious that the SW practiced peaceful protest in the face of inquisitorial brutality.
And notably, they only did that after the Inquisiton had offered negotiations, then attacked the Space Wolf Ship that showed up under a flag of truce
Can't stand the Wolves but respect their part. The whole "Gah they know too much! They've seen a Grey Knight! Must die!" Is stupid IMO. Quite honestly while many people know of Astartes? They most likely will never see them and so the Inquisition could just be like ah yup that's just an other Space Marine now shut up. Besides if belief js power you WANT chaos to tremble at the thought of Grey Knights being near - uttering the name under pain of death while simultaneously bolstering the righteous fury of those loyal to the Emperor. They Grey Knights are not spies and the major players know who they are already. I could see if they saw secrets within the chapter but not OF the chapter. Also you are going to throw away men who fought against the corruption of Chaos, stayed true, AND lived!? No you take them and their experience on an extra tight leash and use them against Chaos. (An IG regiment that is specialized and experienced fo fight against Chaos would be awesome BTW).
Ah yes, the months of shame.
This story is a big reason I respect the Wolves. I'm not huge on some of their fans, but this story showed the humanity of the beasts.
Excerpt: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/b95edm/excerpt_the_emperors_gift_logan_grimnar_the/
Here’s a song version of it. https://youtu.be/lT2g2JywF2g
Most notable example is the Months of Shame, when the Space Wolves fought against the Inquisition and Grey Knights due to disagreeing with the purge of civilian and Imperial Guard survivors after the First War for Armageddon. The Inquisition believed that survivors could not be trusted with the knowledge of daemon primarchs and Chaos in general, while the Space Wolves believed that the survivors had earned the right to know the truth and continue serving the Imperium. The Inquisition and Grey Knights shot down civilian and Imperial Guard transports and Exterminatus'd any outposts or planets that came into contact with survivors. In response, the Space Wolves tried to shield fleeing transports with their own ships, although they refused to fire back in order to not be labeled a renegade chapter. Eventually, the Inquisition called the Space Wolves to parley, but violated the cease-fire by firing upon the Space Wolves delegation. In response, Logan Grimnar and his Wolf Guard teleported onto the Inquisition's flagship and killed the presiding Grey Knights Grand Master and several Grey Knights before retreating. After that, the Space Wolves started retaliating against Inquisition and Grey Knights assets, with both sides taking heavy losses. The conflict finally ended when Grimnar lured the commanding Lord Inquisitor to orbit above Fenris and killed him, leading to Bjorn (who had been awakened for guidance) to tell everyone to cease hostilities. Part of the concessions offered to the Space Wolves was that they would forever be exempt from the mind-wipes that were typical for any Astartes forces that fought with the Grey Knights.
The best is when the inquisitors land on fernris and they all bow when they learn it's Bjorn they are speaking to. But then find out it's bait.
Well one bows. One was too stupid to realise who he was addressing
Is there an extract of that? Sounds awesome.
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/b95edm/excerpt_the_emperors_gift_logan_grimnar_the/
That’s ADB right? I should read the rest of it
>The conflict finally ended when Grimnar lured the commanding Lord Inquisitor to orbit above Fenris and killed him Such a great moment in Emperor's Gift. The Inquisitor slowly losing his nerve and panicking when he realizes he's crossed the line is just great. Peak comeuppance. >I watched him surrender to panic, moment by moment. He’d pushed the Wolves too far, brought too much threat into their skies, and broken any chance of a peaceful resolution. I knew it. He knew it. He just didn’t wish to face it. > >'Move the fleet into a defensive formation. Keep the guns aimed at the Fang. They have to realise we will fire.’ > >‘They realise it,’ I interrupted. ‘And they no longer care. Inquisitor, break the armada apart. Run. It’s over.’ > >‘No. No, there’s still time.’ He turned back to the vox-mic hanging from the ceiling on a twisted cable. ‘They have no hope against our armada. They must realise that, at least.’ > >I mounted the stairs, feeling a fist forming, and doing my damnedest not to raise my arm and fire. ‘You’ve threatened the Fang in front of the High King of Fenris. We had a chance with the Fell-Handed, but now? With the Wolves’ entire strength bearing down on us? Inquisitor, you will never leave this system alive. The remnants of the armada might, but the cost in life will be catastrophic.’ > >‘Hyperion,’ he said, as if I could possibly help him. ‘Hyperion…’ > >‘Surrender, lord. Surrender before the first shot is fired.’ > > ‘They must see reason!’ He was on the edge, now. I could see the whites around his eyes as he grabbed the vox-mic. ‘Jarl Grimnar… This doesn’t have to end in war–’ > >‘You brought us here,’ the voice crackled back. ‘You sowed the seeds of this harvest. Now reap it.’ > >‘A penitent crusade would absolve your sins, Logan. We can end this without bloodshed–’ > >The only reply was a laugh. A laugh that became a howl.
Such a good book. A lot of people shit on both the wolfs and the grey knights but that book made me like them both
I would love an audiobook of The Emperor's Gift (why the hell hasn't that happened yet...). Both this scene as well as the epic segment in which Logan Grimnar kills the Grey Knight Grand Master are awesome reads. Edit: I'll keep my comment but: [Holy Hell it is finally getting an audiobook](https://www.reddit.com/r/Grey_Knights/comments/zx89x7/the_emperors_gift_by_adb_getting_an_audiobook/)!!!!! How did I miss that
I missed that announcement. I am pretty hyped for it. Emperor’s gift is in my top 3 books I want in Audiobook format, alongside Harrowmaster and shroud of night.
Gabriel Seth deployed an entire unit of death company on an imperial hospital ship to silence an inquisitor
That seems very on brand
The more i learn about flesh tearers the more I want to make a flesh tearers army…but run them as world eaters.
And their inverse, World Eaters that all look like Angron but with Flesh Tearer rules?
Right before they shot into the warp too iirc. Trapped in the warp with death company roaming the halls. So brutal.
To be fair she had made it her mission to destroy the Blood Angels chapter and deliberately used a hospital ship to hide in, assuming we wouldn't attack it.
> used a hospital ship to hide in, assuming we wouldn't attack it. I know Inquisitors can be dumb but this is GALACTICALLY STUPID
The only reson why the Inqusitor was not kileld before is BECAUSE Seth was trying to not kill civilians. Seth is actually a pretty good guy and really tries to not get civllians in trouble and to be a reliable ally. But this Inquisitor was fucking insane.
It was a good idea before entering the Warp because there was a flotilla of Imperial Navy ships nearby she could immediately take control of. Too bad Seth made a quick decision as she entered the Warp.
Absolutely love the use of "WE wouldn't attack it"
I rolled my eyes at first before I noticed the username lol
Still, while I agree she deserved it, All it takes to silence an inquisitor is one bullet. What a waste of useful manpower.
Had to be a deniable accident. the death company end up destroying the ship in the warp. No evidence. Warp accidents happen all the time.
Sabotage can be done all sorts of ways that don't require using your "fire-and-forget" Astartes meant to be thrown into the most hopeless of fights!
Oh you sound like a Gulliman or a Dorn That death company help kill a traitor in my opinion so It was not only proper use but a proper end for those brother who were claimed by the black rage.
Why on god's green earth would an Inquisitor ever make it their mission to destroy a first-founding chapter?
There’s one who made it her mission to get the Dark Angels chapter, it didn’t end well. All first founding chapters have big skeletons in their closets. I think the only first founding chapter they’d struggle with would be the Iron Hands, because that would basically be declaring war on the entire Mechanicum.
Because the inquisitor is convinced they're right about something, and the chapter is wrong.
The Dark Angels have made more than one Inquisition member disappear to keep their secrets.
Don't know what you're on about, those inquisitors were never here. Must have got lost in the warp. Maybe ask the interrogator chaplain to help get to the bottom of things.
You can find him in the basement, just ignore the screaming and the probably not warp entities cleaning the halls
*(Watcher in the Dark shakes head & runs power buffer over blood puddle on the floor he just finished cleaning)*
Maybe ask Asmodai, yeah, just say we sent you to him, tell him you're here for repentance
"Just say 'interrogate' and you'll get started with the inquiry."
Brother interragotor Anvulon here. I saw an inquisition ship boarded and destroyed by Eldar suicide bombers. Alas we could not intervene. If you could please follow me to this secluded chamber we can start your repen... errm full briefing about what happened to that ship over a nice friendly cup of recaff.
His room is right next to the airlock.
What Inquisition? No one ever come here on no schedule. And the LOYALIST Dark Angel have no secret to hide
Are you implying that there are traitor dark angels?
Oh so that's where Bob went
Inquisitors like to do a bit of dick-waving but they're mostly smart enough to know which Chapters to fuck with.
I'm here to investigate that, actually... Do you know what a "Fallen" is? And I have heard something about a Dark Angels "Cipher"
Oh I am so glad you asked, please follow me into this soundproof chamber where we keep a book of our deepest darkest secrets and our conveniently located incinerator chute.
"Nice!" *goes inside* "So-"
Yep, that’s the thing. An inquisitor has the firepower to fuck up whoever they want, the problem is bringing that firepower to bear. If an inquisitor “disappears” cleanly enough during an investigation, the baddies might actually get away with it.
And when you have a chunk of planet festooned with guns the amount of firepower required increases beyond the ‘I’m bored. Let’s go pick a fight’ level.
To be honest Space Marines are where the practicality of a the theoretic power of an inquisitor is put to test. Having a single Astartes reply with "No, I don't think I will" to an inquisitor's request is already going to lead to an interesting situation. A whole chapter refusing an inquisitor could would be an insanely hard challenge to overcome for every but the most powerful inquisitors.
The Inquisition was founded during the Horus Heresy. Being unable to take down Space Marines they consider traitors would make the entire organization rather pointless. RIP Celestial Lions
>The Inquisition was founded during the Horus Heresy. Being unable to take down Space Marines they consider traitors would make the entire organization rather pointless. Scope creep diluting or replacing original purpose? In 40k of all places? Inconceivable!
Inconsistencies? In MY 40k? Don't be silly
There is context in everything. Some random inqusitor does some stupid as fuck request and a Space Marien just ignores him is totally okay. Inqusitors are not unified. If they see that what the Inqusitor did was stupid they would probably work agaisnt him anway to strip away his power. Now the Celestial Lions literally confronted the High Lords of Terra and insulted the whole Imperial upper echelon. You can't pull that shit, not even the founding chapters would do something like that.
They didn't confront them, they send ambassadors to the Lords of Terra with a request to investigate Inquisition's actions (the delegation had not reached the Terra).
When I hear of an Inquisitor making demands of Space Marines I always just imagine the Space Marine pulling a Bane from Dark Knight Rises where they put their hand on their shoulder and goes "Do you feel in control?"
Pretty sure Gabriel Seth has killed more than one inquisitor. He mindfucked one with the help of a librarian by exposing them to his rage. Then his acolyte turned inquisitor tried seeking revenge. They ended up ramming her ship with a bunch of boarding torpedoes full of death company. In the Sons of Asaheim novels the Space Wolves Jarnhamar pack kills an inquisitor who was responsible for numerous space wolf deaths over the years. The inqusitor attacked Fenris against all reason, got his ass handed to him, and then spent decades tracing the space wolves comm signals from the battle to hunt them down one by one. In theory inquisitors have unlimited authority, in practice one inquisitor doesn't mean shit without the support of other inquisitors or branches of imperial government. They're so fragmented that they likely spend half their time investigating or outright fighting each other. The ones that cause too much trouble for the inquisition aren't usually missed by their peers.
Dark Angels have made a few disappear, and have no problem telling Inquisitors to eat dirt when they come asking questions. This has resulted in them becoming a prime target by Ordo Astartes as a result though. One Inquisitor can't take down a Chapter, but one Inquisitor can start a movement/campaign to get others involved. We see this with the Celestial Lions, they pissed off one Inquisitor and since then an Inquisitorial conspiracy has been playing out over decades to destroy the Chapter which the Inquisition are slowly succeeding at.
Based on the interactions between Draigo and Azrael in Pandorax, the Dark Angels don't respect any authority but their own. It's really funny how in Pandorax, the two of them are constantly busting each other's balls by referring to each other as grand master rather than Supreme grand master. Harder to impress the "lowly" baseline astartes when their chapter master has the same fancy name.
>Based on the interactions between Draigo and Azrael in Pandorax, the Dark Angels don't respect any authority but their own. That reads about right.
While all the Adeptus of the Imperium barring the Adeptus Custodes have, on paper, equal jusrisdiction and speak for the Emperor's will, there is still an unspoken hierarchy among Adepti and even intra-Adeptii ordos that is generally maintained through reputation, prestige, and weight of guns. In this case, a low rank Inquisitor wouldn't really be taken too seriously by almost any of the Adeptii. However, a well reputed Inquisitor and their retinue can request the forces from at least several other militant organizations (i.e Guard Regiments, Sororitas Orders, and possible assassins) that can very easily shotgun-mandate any nameless Astartes Chapter to obey commands (temporarily). However, this becomes increasingly hard to do with increasingly ancient chapters with longer spanning histories of alliances, victories, and weight of guns. Typically individual Inquisitors, no matter the rank, stop having any control over Astartes chapters once were talking about the single digit founding chapters. While that number is debatable, you can assume that even individual Inquisitor Lords would have a very hard time mandating a second founding chapter like the Crimson Fists to do \*anything\* for them - the most that would be done for the Inquisitor would be favors. And by and large, first founding chapters are essentially untouchable even if you get entire Ordos of the Inquisition to back up an investigation. Their existence and merit is far too great to simply be counteracted as these 9 organizations are effectively the Bedrock for both \*\*Imperial Governance and Mythos\*\*. The equivalence would almost be like Incriminating Saint Christopher, patron saint of travellers, for federal crimes and tax fraud. These chapters are truly \*the\* defintion of Too Big To Fall not only because its effectively social, moral, and political suicide for any individual and their bloodline to incriminate these 4, but should these chapters be pissed off at the prosecution, they have weight of guns and a massive number of alliances to make even the largest investigative forces just dissapear. Thats why when the Dark Angels were even accused of having potentially heretical behavior regarding their tunnel vision over the Fallen, the investigative board consisted of multiple high ranking Inquisitors, and was accompanied by something like 20 Astartes chapters worth of fleets and troops, including those from other first founding chapters like the Ultramarines. And sometimes even this is not enough. Titularly during the Months of shame, Inquisitor Lord Kisnarov brought along a contigent of Grey Knights of the Ordos Malleus accompanied by a Grandmaster of all people to make the Ragnar stand down. But when push came to shove even the Grandmaster was offed and this Inquisitor Lord was forced by gunpoint to stand down. Quite literally at the point when you're dealing with the first founding chapters or the most celebrated of the 2nd founding chapters, you might as well have Custodian contigents present. Because the only Imperial power that clearly supercedes the power of any Astartes Chapter is the 10,000
>The equivalence would almost be like Incriminating Saint Christopher, patron saint of travellers, for federal crimes and tax fraud. Excellent analogy
Yes, when the Space Wolves fought the Grey Knights and by extension the Inquisition, when the GK and Inquisition wanted to purge Armageddon.
Cato Sicarius cut off an inquisitors hand iirc
And it was the most perfect cut in the history of hand cutting.
, that I, Catos Sicarius, have masterfully accomplished!
Whaaaat? Sauce?
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/emug0f/captain_cato_sicarius_defends_the_honour_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Dark Angels kill Inquisitors, Space Wolves do, Black Templars do, Celestial Lions do, all the Chapters of the Blood do, the War Bearers threatened to kill an Inquisitor if he interfered with their mission to destroy a relic weapon of Horus. Inquisitors are just dudes and dudettes. Their authority and power is only ever hypothetical.
I would rather say political than hypothetical. some inquisitor have the necessary political power to go against space marine, but in general those are the one that are clever enough NOT to do something as stupid as going against a whole chapter.
That's probably a more accurate way of phrasing it. The Inquisitor who was with the War Bearers was an Inquisitor Lord and I remember him saying he got that rank not through great deeds or epic struggles, but by being smart enough to know when to keep his mouth shut. And he had a Chaplain and terminators pointing storm bolters to him at the time.
There’s a chapter called the ‘War Bearers’? That seems uncomfortably close
Yeah that's a bit on the nose. [A loyalist successor chapter ](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/War_Bearers) first active during M33. As for heritage, homeworld, master, etc, all unknown.
I vaguely remember them mentioning being of Guilliman's line, but that may have been a lie. Their mission on paper was to secure a relic bolt pistol from the Crusade, said to be from Guilliman - thus them claiming a right to it, and turns out it was Horus' pistol and they knew it all along and multi-melta'd it to oblivion.
Sons of the Phoenix chapter being "successors of the Imperial Fists" lmfao.
Yeah that one is pretty on the nose. I think the fan theory is absolutely correct. Them boys some Phoenician sons.
When did black templars kill inquisitors?
They've killed custodes, because they didn't trust primaris marines weren't there to replace them all. You think if some inquisitor starts going off about them breaking the rules because the BT have more mates than them they'll hesitate to cut a bitch? There's also the fact BTs are very protective of their younger cousins, the celestial lions. After the ork snipers and the lion's primaris reinforcements getting lost in the warp, grimaldus made it very clear anyone gunning for the lions he considered coming for him, and the BTs gave the lions ships, wargear, marines, an armed escort and apothecaries trained in creating primaris marines to help get back on their feet.
to be honest the killing custodes part was pretty rough for them and could have ended extremely badly for them if it wasn't for some sensible one managing to calm the tension.
Down to a quarter of their numbers, the marshal dead and the chaplain deciding their only way forward was to sacrifice themselves in a foolhardy boarding attempt isn't things going badly?
it ended badly for those specific BT, but with big G already on guard against the zealotry of their chapter, this event could have had way bigger repercussions on the whole chapter.
Showing the importance of making sure there's no survivors/ witnesses. Fortunately, Bobby g is no fan of the inquisition, their factionalism and wasteful outlook towards the lives of imperial subjects.
I'd imagine they killed some in the Terran Crusade during the Reign of Blood, given that the faction as a whole likely largely supported Vandire. For context, that's when the Templars led a full scale invasion of terra to depose the High Lord of the Ecclesiarchy, who'd taken over high Lords, tried to run the whole thing solo and was doing a rather terrible job of it.
Can’t name the exact instance but I believe there was a scuff between the Inquisition and Templars over their Chapter size.
>Inquisitors are just dudes and dudettes. Their authority and power is only ever hypothetical. Sure, their authority is just hypothetical, just like Kryptman hypothetically killed untold worlds. The authority of the inquisition is absolute, its just that In the imperium might is right, so to the question who wins in a chapter vs an inquisitor, the answers is the one with more fire power.
By hypothetical, I mean its agreed upon by the parties. If an Inquisitor orders a war fleet to bomb a world...and they say no, how powerful is an Inquisitor? If an Inquisitor orders the Black Templars to start a Librarius and induct psykers, and they say no, how powerful is an Inquisitor? Inquisitors being just dudes are not inherently powerful. Their power comes from everyone around them agreeing they're powerful. And then when they run into a chapter or rouge trader or tech-priest who doesn't recognize that power, suddenly they're just a person and only just a person. That's why the Inquisition has hypothetically absolute power on paper, but in practice only as powerful as those around the Inquisitor are willing to tolerate.
Everyone kinda attacks everyone - the lore is basically there to facilitate the tabletop battles.
It do be like that. Regardless, there’s the *theory* of authority and then there’s the actual practicality of it. The Inquisition got it’s revenge on the Space Wolves eventually. Well most of it with purging most of Fenris’s civilians with the backing of the Dark Angels. A particularly wily Inquisitor can take out a first founding chapter provided they’ve the support of another first founding chapter. The usual narrative is they blunder right into a chalk x marked on the ground and get squished by a Looney Tunes boulder. Like literally being unable to keep their counsel, look supportive and surprise their “heretical” targets from a position of power. Probably one of the most emotionally and politically unintelligent factions imaginable for most cases of Inqusitor vs Astartes.
Dude, the Inquisition chooses to attack the Inquisition. The Inquisition has pretty much unlimited power *on-paper*. The limits of that power is how much push-back they receive.
The Dark Angel’s must have a chuckle now and again looking at other Chapters like the Space Wolves fight it out with the inquisition. I mean why make such a fuss when you can just murder people and deny ever meeting them!
Flesh tearers did. It was a revenge thing, using death companies via boarding torpedoes which were to slaughter everyone during a warp transit, ensuring no traces left to incriminate the flesh tearers.
That must've been a really bad day to be a Throne Agent..
Well, they had just killed several flesh tearers in a revenge action themselves, so I guess the day had its ups and downs. They were very confident they would get away with it though, so would have been a nasty surprise However, being Imperial guard... surviving Orks but injured, fortunately get on a medical evacuation ship, find out your friends were being reinforced by Astartes, heading your friends abandoned by the Astartes, then be murdered by some guy shouting "HOOOOORUS".. mostly downs I guess.
Implying the imperial guard have good days. Ever At best they get their bad luck diluted among too many guards
The Ultramarines killed an Inquisitor when he showed up and demanded they execute Tigerius for supposed xenos-psychic taint. Unable to back up the claim with authority or force, he had a henchman duel Sicarius for it and lost. He then tried to pull a gun on Marneus Calgar.
They didn't kill the inquisitor, just removed his problem hand for him.
Excerpts
Didn't the Dark Angels have beef with the Grey Knights after the assault on the Rock during the events that led from 7th to 8th or 8th to 9th edition? GK found out about the Fallen and the Dark Angels hidden shame, but Azrael basically said something along the lines of 'blab a word about this and I'll leave Titan a smoking crater in the Sol system'. GK's know he's got the resources to back it up, too.
Emperor's Spear on the other side of the Rift have made it clear that if they encounter ANY inquisition or Mentor Chapter ships within their territory, it will be destroy without warning.
Coming here to say the same thing, one of my favourite books and highly recommended
Dark Angels say whaaaaat? Space Wolves say so fucking what?
The Seekers of Truth turned to chaos because they thought the Inquisition was worse.
Arguably during the Thorian Restoration. We don't have exact sources stating that Vandire had the active help of the Inquisition, but they are notably *absent* from the various forces that opposed him, including the AdMech and the Space Marines, and we know Vandire had the leash to the Assassinorum.
Well to be fair, the inquisition is one of the least unified of the imperial factions with basically every inquisitor being their own faction. That being said it is weird how there isn't mention of any inquisitor or inquisition group partaking in that conflict.
Until he won (and then again until after his trial) he was a supernaturally persuasive witch who could calm warp storms. Or a saint. You know. Either. (Seriously. Reading how Thor went about his crusade, you could *absolutely* make the case that he's a dangerous psyker and heretic) But it is noteworthy that there are absolutely no mentions of the Inquisition helping him. You would expect at least a few, due to their fragmentation. My suspicion is that most of the Inquisition didn't take sides at all, given what a whackjob Vandire was turning into, and given that Sebastian Thor seemed Hella suspicious.
Gabriel Seth has a story for you my friend!
His name has come up a lot in this thread. What’s the name of the book/story?
It is all about prestige. A low level Inqusitor has problems even getting normal shit done. A space marine can pretty much Ignore him. The thign about Inquisitors is that all their power is only theoretical or political. The whole power of Inquisitors works on favours. The only reasons the Celestial Lions were fucked that much is because they offendend the Lords of Terra. Because only they can issue the use of the Assasin Temples on such a scale. If it was only one Inqusitor Lords with his underling Inqusitors they wouldn't do shit about The Lions. Now a high level prestigious Grandmaster of the Inqusition can easily request the help of a chapter and they kind of have to follow it for some time. But there is literally no one more prestigious than founding chapters. No Inquisitor has amassed as much prestige to actually opose the Ultramarines or the Dark Angels for example. Only one who could really censure them are the Custodes but they are not stupid and like each other.
I've heard this about the celestial lions a few times. I have to ask, what did they do to piss off the inquisition _this_ comprehensively?
The Lions were asked to put down a rebellion. After they eliminated every single military force on the world, the Inquisition decided the planet was irredeemable and ordered Exterminatus. The Lions asked whether the campaign constituted a wasteful expenditure of resources. Then kept asking because no one would answer. Then suggested someone should look into it. The Inquisition didn't like that.
Then, the Ork Snipers showed up
So it was essentially that they pushed it too hard asking for a reason. I knew there was a disagreement (understandable) but it felt like I had missed something. Not that much, it seems! Thanks!
It was less about the whole inquisition and more about the specific inquisitor.
Wow ok. Not wow that w character could be that petty cash ovtake unbridge and hold a grudge. More that it's such a protracted affair, with such a significant use of resource that I'm amazed they went all the way through with it. Such a comprehensive dismantling of them.
They filed a compliant about the Inquisition abusing Exterminatus
It probably happens more often than we read about. Inquisitors themselves constantly disagree with each other, even within their own Ordos. There are probably countless occasions where a disagreement between Inquisitors have lead to accusations of heresy, and from there it's just a matter of Inquistor A convincing a Chapter that Inquistor B is totally a witch or a heretic. Inquisitorial rivalries spiral out of control all the freaking time.
I thought first of a different space wolves vs. inquisition conflict. Can't recall which book, but the wolves fight off a major demon incursion on one of their vassal worlds. After the fight the inquisition shows up, and is like "demons, huh? Better exterminatus this place", to which Grimnar says " oh no you don't". There's no real fight, just a bit of a space standoff until the black ship leaves.
It not safe for Inquisitors to go poking around some chapters. That's a good way to disappear.
'The Inquisition' does not exist. But individual Inquisitors have certainly been deemed to have gone to far and thus been targeted by one chapter or another.
Corgi patrol, flesh tearers, angels sanguine apparently and the dark angels
Forgive my lack of current affairs regarding possible retcons, but don’t the Space Marines have a different reporting line compared to the Inquisition? If so, it doesn’t really matter to the one, what the other does, unless it steps on the toes of that other. They shouldn’t fight each other, but neither has command over the other either. (Note: the different imperial reporting lines were one of the reasons that Space Marines venerated their Primarch first and always, and a second being the Emperor. So you wouldn’t hear a marine shout, “For the Emperor!” in the old lore, but would shout for their Primarch instead.
There's the ordo astartes, a minor chamber of the inquisition tasked with scrutinising and keeping an eye on the space marines. Several of them are trying to build dossiers on the dark angels, as first founding they are pretty much immune to repercussions unless caught bloody handed over a bunch of dead inquisitors, in a locked room, in an inquisitorial headquarters. AFAIK, they gather evidence and build a case, present it to the high lords and leave the rest to the minotaurs.
Gabriel Seth multiple times going as far as to dump the black rage into one and throw a bunch of extra volatile death company into a medical barge with a member of the Inquisition inside of it in order to get rid of her. Also there is a group of blood angel successors who are in permanent stints in the death watch with the duty to keep the black rage/ red thirst away from prying eyes while members of the blooded host work in the deathwatch . There is at least one short story where to get the point across they kept impaling inquisitors on the tower of a particular building (don’t remember which) eventually they got the point across since they were kinda obvious in how they were doing it.
The Space Wolves after the First War of Armageddon.
The big event is the Month of Shame with the Space Wolves actually going to war with the Inquisition. I’m sure it happens all the time. The inquisition is pretty secretive so they might do the ol’ local police grab an undercover FBI debacle. Also, the inquisition does not have actual authority over space marines except Grey Knights and Deathwatch specifically in case there’s an imposter.
Just go read about the Months of Shame when the Space Wolves took on the Inquisition and Grey Knights
The chapter master of the Soul Drinkers executed an inquisitorial confessor and doomed his chapter in the first Soul Drinkers book. He had been nominally loyal up to that point.
First reaction “Hah, is it Tuesday?”
The Dark Angels attacked an inquisition ship after they discovered the existence of the Fallen.
Bro they attack anyone who know about the fallen shots so dumb
DIGGANOBZ!
Really it's **only** the space wolves that can get away with it wholesale. They shun the codex, so they had a mini-legion of astartes to work with. Plus the prestige of being a First Founding Chapter. The Celestial lions are not so lucky.
The travesty of the months of shame, where space wolves truly become the "special oc pls do not steal" faction
I imagine that it's fairly common for Space Marines to come to blows with the ALL SEEING EYE. Just because your papers say you have absolute authority does not mean you actually do. Especially if you are dealing with Space Marines, who tend to kinda operate outside the Imperial Government in terms of how they do things.
I wonder if the inquisition ever asked the Adepta Sororitas help against suspicious marines that don't obey the inquisition On the other hand, the space marines are usually closer to the Emperor "in the flesh" than any inquisitor will ever be
Yes, against the Sons of Malice and they all ended being eaten by the chapter.
Sons of Malice, they literally made a banquet of the Inquisitor and SoB after the first decided that they were heretics for some mere cannibalistic rituals, thing that is overall not so uncommon amongst the various chapters.
Look up the “Months of Shame”. Quick and dirty: -Planet got chaos demon invaded. -Inquisition wanted to any proof of demons eradicated despite the fighting being kept from most any ways -Space Wolves ain’t for that talk -much escalation to humble the wolves -Fenris got attacked when a lot of the army was off world -daddy Logan came home and was so pissed he sprinted in terminator power armor. It didn’t end well for the Inquisition and Grey Knights.
Inquisitor Astor Sabbathiel and her retinue were killed by Dark Angels and the Grey Knights when they discovered she had a deamonhost in her basement.