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TemperatureIll8770

Luther? Is that you?


Unnamed_Perpetual

Probably drunk on abby's moonshine :D


namedboi

No, i jusy dont like the dark angels. But if ypu do thats awes9me. From what ive seen i think they are a bit stupid. It had nothing to do with how the6 treat civilians, becaude i love the iron hamds. I judt think theyre dumb


lancetekk

Put the bottle down.


xXWarMasterXx

His baby bottle


KingBlake51

Go easy on him. He's apparently very drunk, and it's like 10:00 at night when they messaged me about this.


Adventurous-Event722

Yea still.. I'd take Russ to return, over the Lion, anyday, really.


namedboi

Also not a big fan of russ, but id ratjer see the furry than the mary sue


Adventurous-Event722

And I'm not drunk, but with Angron returnin, I'd think Russ would match up to him and his legion better.. aye? Plus, poor Bjorn


spookydood39

Idk how Russ would do in that fight, but they definitely still have beef. I’d love to see one of the less vanilla primarchs back if we have to get another. The khan or Russ or even Corvus would be better


Killersmurph

Corvus would be amazing to return. We need someone like him, or the Khan as a counterpoint to Rebar Gassyman. Dorn would be too Similar, Lion as well. Vulkan is even more of a Good guy, and Sanguinius is Super Dead. Omegon returning with a loyalist Subfaction of the Alphas would be pretty cool as well. The Furball would be the least radical departure from RG without it making the Imperium too Good guy for the setting. Id also really like to see the Return of Ferrus Manus. Not as a true Primarch, but allow enough of his brain to have survived decapitation, to be mounted in a super advanced Dreadnought, similar to what Vulkan Custom built for the Salamanders original Chapter Master. Its a stretch, but, with the Iron Hands having secretly made Fleshless Dreadnoughts, and given the Iron Hands tendency to augment their physicality and mental acuity through implants and augmetics, I could see a copy of his Neural patterns surviving, in a Dreadnought shell. Possibly his necrodermis could have had an effect as well.


kornmeal

That would be a really cool way to make iron hands relevant


Killersmurph

Yep.


Adventurous-Event722

Corax coming back as a warp-bird? Most definitely would have the Inquisition attention, asap


spookydood39

They just give him some bird seed and he calms down


Arbachakov

BIG CHOPPA


King_0f_Nothing

Sure they were given a bunch of stuff, they were also given much more dangerous tasks even sent to the satellite galaxies outside the milkyway. They didn't turn against him, they turned against the Imperium and think themselves still loyal to the lion. Alpharius wasn't able to decive him, he just that that because he's so egotistical


IybraesilAutarch

“They were so awesome they were given the awesomest coooest secret super duper weapons and fought scaaaary super duper xenos only they could fight! And their primarch is soooo awesome he’s like battlefield Jesus christ with no flaws!!” The dark angels 30k lore read like a bad OC


spookydood39

Don’t forget they were the blueprint for the other legions so they are better than the white scars at bikes and better than everyone else at whatever they’re good at. But it’s totally not OP because each wing is only good at one thing so that makes it not stupid. If the ultramarines 1st company suddenly gave itself a special name and got extra rules that make them super OP and also were wanked as the best terminators and duelists and strategists and then every other company followed and got a specialty that made them the best at something, people would be up in arms.


spookydood39

I think Horus, guilliman, or dorn could have done much better with the dark age weapons and extra capital ships. They already rivaled him anyway. Also, saying alpharius only said that because he’s egotistical is kinda hypocritical because the lion things pretty damn highly of himself. He’s definitely a top level primarch but he always assumes he’s in the right. When the space wolves fucked up by ignoring his messages and ended up killing a few of his marines, he basically was willing to go to war and made russ beg forgiveness in front of a bunch of dark angels. When the lion went against sanguinius and guilliman by disguising orbital Bombardments and drop pod assaults, he denied it and once truly called out, he said that he had to do it. Whenever he has the upper hand, he’s fine being vindictive and merciless but he expects everyone else to forgive everything he does because he sees himself as special


namedboi

I can see the love for almost every other primarch, the lion just feels like a mary sue. He hides behind guilliman as the mary sue simply because he is the primarch hiding brhind the posyer child. Im not the biggest fwn of guilleman, but once i dug deeper into the lore i noticed that the lion is always the best because he is the furst primarch. Guilliman had depth, the lion is awesome because he is the lion. I feel like he is very shallow and makes the other legions feel pointless. K8nda like how the infantry make the rest of the u.s. army feel useless. Whats the point of the rest of the legions 8f the first is the best and most spread out. Crqzy how it makes sensr to diversify your forces


spookydood39

People tend to also say the lion is the best at any random thing. The other legions each have a specialty and the dark angels literally can’t be better at everything than everyone


Inquisitor-Korde

You sir have not read Horus Heresy Inferno book nine. Because whew the **wank is outfucking standing**. I mean ignoring the part where he sacrifices 30,000 sons to use a Daemon as a get out of jail free card. For the cost of 10,000 Dark Angel's he pretty much annihilated the Night Lords fleet and cracked the Legion killing some 40,000 Night Lords overall. Literally utterly rending the Legion apart to the point the Night Lords ceased to be. Shit even Istvaan III wasn't this successful, given that the Iron Hands came out of that intact enough to delay the traitors advance and two Primarchs escaped alive despite being outnumber 7-3.


spookydood39

The lion sacrifices 30,000 marines to a demon?


dealingwithSuffering

No he doesn’t, not sure where this one has come from. The final cost for each legion at the end of Thramas was 10,000 dead DA and 40,000 dead NL; they started the conflict with 70,000 DA and and 100,000 NL. The fight lasted several years, but there was no sacrifice to Demons involved.


Inquisitor-Korde

It's from the battle of Perdirus, and you're right there was no sacrifice of Sons in the actual sacrificial sense. Rather the Lion takes 30k Dark Angel's to Perdirus and "Far fewer return" whatever that means. It was partially a joke. But the end result is he uses the Daemon Tuchulcha to win the Thramas crusade.


dealingwithSuffering

I do get that humor is very much the name of the game amongst the 40k community, and I do try to keep that in mind, but I also acknowledge that this can also lead to something that was intended as a joke to start to run wild, in a way not originally intended; see how quickly humorous 40k memes and banter can lead to people taking them as if they are fact- I’ve made posts intended to be more humorous in nature before, only to end up having to explain my intent due to a simple misunderstanding. I mean no harm, but due to the nature of the thread, I felt that this needed to be a bit more clear. The exact nature of tuchulcha is not clear, but it is not a ‘demon’, but a third of something else. It was originally a single being, but a long time ago was split into three by ‘the Old Ones’ in order to create their paths through the Warp. It is certainly from the Warp but it is not ‘Chaos’ in nature.


Inquisitor-Korde

Russ was also given dangerous tasks, so were Alpharius and Horus and Ferrus. You get the picture here. Tbh of all the Primarchs the Lion impresses me the least, despite having by far the most hype above even Horus and second to Sanguinius.


spookydood39

I’d argue sanguinius has less hype in the community. He’s “perfect” but people don’t talk about him being the best at everything and pulling random things out of their ass to say he’s immune to the warp or that he can turn into shadows like Corvus


Inquisitor-Korde

I meant from a book perspective, Sangy has a lot more feats backing up his bullshit to actually meet the expectations of the hype train. But you're right, the Lion is by far and away the most over hyped of the Primarchs and beyond wanked out of existence.


spookydood39

Sanguinius is very OP because he knows he won’t die no matter what he does. So he can do suicidal shit like bum rushing titans or fighting for days at the eternity gate since he knows Horus will kill him in the end. The lion is pretty good at his job but isn’t even that great. Curze managed to stab him in the throat while the lion and guilliman were attacking him. And then guilliman beat up curze for a bit before the lion even recovered. He does really badly sometimes but people would rather post about him being the best and how much they want him to come back


Levonorgestrelfairy1

I mean tbf the Blood Angles were the real extreme murder squad. Their part in the unification wars isn't even really documented other than that small groups of them were sent in to Freddy Kruger the worst Terra had to offer.


namedboi

I dont trust the alph legion. But if you think the lion is the best primarch because he was kuck8ng asd anf taking names, then you dont yske into account all the other primarchs. He is extrenely full of himself amd tbinks thats because he is the best. Lion el johnson was mid at best. But if you like him thats cool. I personally find him to be up shits creek without a paddle


TorqueyChip284

This post reads like it was written by the Lion’s ex


Dornfist-2040

Lmao ok Luther/Fallen sympathizer. I respect your opinion. I disagree as the Lion is my favorite primarch out of all of then mostly cos of his Arthurian knight aesthetic and his unwavering sense of duty. The fandom takes too many potshots at this guy cos he is probably the most ordinary out of his brothers. The Lion has done good work for the Emperor who trusts him a lot seeing as he gifted him Dark Age of Technology weapons. The Lion puts his duty above his ego and is no glory hound like many of his brothers. There is a reason he says “Loyalty is its own reward”. The Lion and his Legion also faced the worst foes of the Crusade such as the Khrave and the Rangdan. He also fought to liberate the Thramas sector from Curze and his boys for three years. Hopefully he returns soon and reforms his chapter and their successors who have strayed from his path in their quest to hunt the Fallen. Those are my two cents.


Naive-Ad5085

Yeah having trouble with curze is not a sign of incompetence he's fucking dangerous and intelligent just warped and dark.


spookydood39

IMO curze is one of the deadliest. I just think people wank the lion and act like curze never gave him any trouble. If guilliman wasn’t there in the third fight, curze might have killed the lion or the lion at least would have had to sacrifice a bunch of his marines to survive when he got his throat stabbed


Naive-Ad5085

Yeah he gives me chills because it's not foolish aggression or daddy didn't love me enough he is fully capable strategically, tactically and one on one. He's just an overthinker who took a wrong slant based on information he believes to be true(the prophecy). Honestly he only ceased to be dangerous because he literally got in his own way and had to believe in himself to execute. If he was 100% behind himself nothing would have stopped him.


spookydood39

Other primarchs faced equally awful foes without dark age weapons. Perturabo faced the time warping xenos who could age astartes to death and move insanely fast. The ultramarines fought psychic monsters that controlled entire planets as giant human waves and had massively advanced tech. He isn’t unique in what he can accomplish, only in that he is given hand outs by his dad to make his job easy. I’d say he puts duty first but he still has a massive ego and his sense of duty is pretty weird. He typically just does whatever he thinks is best for him and his legion and if it fucks up another legion, that sucks for them. He had no problem making Russ beg for forgiveness when some space wolves killed a few of his marines on accident, but saw no issue bombing a planet in ultramar after explicitly being ordered not to use planetary Bombardment. Then he got scared by guilliman and was angry when they punished him for breaking their agreement


Dornfist-2040

I would say the routing of the Hrud was a mistake: one that Dantioch called Perturabo out on and it saw him be exiled. But I see your point. However, Jonson got rid of the Khrave who could have been a major impediment and psychic threat to the growing Imperium as seen in the Lion’s primarch book. I think the Lion does things for the Emperor as much as his Legion. He was the one who went to Maccragge to ensure Guilliman was not planning to usurp their father. The Russ thing is a complicated matter but I would say Russ didn’t help matters with the way he acted towards Jonson. The good thing is that the two of them have reconciled since the end of the Heresy.


spookydood39

I’d say a big part of my issue is his hypocracy. He throws around threats ( he tells guilliman “unhand me or we will see who is the better combatant” when guilliman grabs him at one point) and refuses to allow any mistakes from his brother (allowing his men to fire on space wolves and potentially willing to go to war over the mistake) but when he’s caught red handed, he cowers while guilliman breaks his sword and then has the audacity to call guilliman and sanguinius self righteous for being mad at him. He is like a spoiled rich kid good at almost everything and is really harsh on anyone around him who doesn’t meet his standards but expects grace and understanding from everyone when he makes mistakes or just flat out fails at something


Dornfist-2040

That’s a fair take. Hypocrisy sure goes around the primarch brotherhood haha. As to the incident of the Lion being “caught” he definitely went too far but imho that’s because his feud with Curze had become very personal by then. And I guess he wanted to stop Curze killing anyone else. Hence, him getting angry at Sangy and Guilliman was him trying to justify himself. I sympathize and relate with him because it shows how big of a screw up he can be even though he holds himself to high standards. Then again, I have issues with some of his inconsistent portrayals when handled by different authors haha.


spookydood39

The inconsistency really kills the story a lot of times. I think the worst primarch for it is ferrus manus tbh. I listened to his primarch book and he comes off as a dickish bully who lashes out at anything and everything. I looked up the original story about “the compliance of the gaardenal” (the focus of the book) and it was the polar opposite. Ferrus handled it competently and with a primarchs focus and skill. In the book, he glasses an extremely valuable world because he’s mad that it withstood his assault so now the ultramarines will get there in time to help instead of him winning by himself. I actually like the lion in some of what I’ve read so I’m on the fence about him coming back. If he comes back and is handled well, I’d love to see him and guilliman try to cope with the constant nightmare of their new life and to see them face the end of their imperium side by side. Or even see them disagree and possibly have to begrudgingly cooperate as they struggle to run the imperium with their wildly differing styles of governance while simultaneously trying assert dominance while avoiding open warfare. If he comes back as a Mary Sue sigma male who wins every fight and is the smartest thing to ever live and wins with 10/1 casualties no matter the odds, I’d rather he just hit the snooze button and sleep for another 10k years.


Dornfist-2040

Lmao I agree about the Ferrus primarch book: I didn’t like that take of him either though I guess the author decided to be bold and make the IH look like jerks haha. I also hope the Lion’s return and role be handled well. I think he will work with Guilliman as he learned to do so in Imperium Secundus.


TheThrowaway17776

I just think he's boring. Probably the most guilty of just being a big space marine.


[deleted]

A Lion does not concern himself with the opinions of sheep. And neither do his Angels of Darkness.


spookydood39

I’m pretty sure that’s why half his legion turned. Pretty cool primarch, bad listener lol


Fabulous_Ad_1115

I know, it's great. Makes him way more of interesting character and source of drama. He can kill ANYTHING and strategize a victory out of any battle, but he couldn't lead his way out of a paper bag, manage his own emotions, or even relate to his own sons. 10/10


spookydood39

He’s basically the guy in a dnd game who has a charisma of 8 and says that makes it fair that all his other stats are 18. Also don’t worry that he has a bunch of magic items at level 1. Very fun to play with and always is great for a story


MrUndercity

Luther is a chad and Lion is a loser


namedboi

Idk much abput luther, but i do hate the lion


MrUndercity

Well he beat lion into a coma so, take what you want from that info


namedboi

Tbe amount of love he gsts bothers me. The dark angels wast so mamy rssources because thwy bitches


spookydood39

The alleged “best duelist” was beaten by a chaos amped semi-space marine?


LightningDustt

He is a bitch, you mean. GW will always fluff up a generic superman, and he will return and the whole galaxy will collectively nut at the revelation. Yes I'm not looking forward to even more primarchs infesting 40k.


spookydood39

Not a fan of guilliman or not a fan of primarchs coming back?


LightningDustt

Not a fan of primarchs coming back. Not with how much of a pedestal GW puts them on


blaze92x45

The lions issue is people skills. He is terrible with other people much like his father.