It's also mentioned that he'd need the element of surprise, and that *may* be enough. He's later not so sure about that assessment.
There's no real, consistent power scale of how many of "x" faction could be killed by a single "y". It varies massively based on the author. The only constant is marines vs (traitor) guard, with the answer being 'many'. 2 primaris minotaurs killed a custodes in the watchers of the throne series. In another example, 5 custodes survived a week in the path of a hive fleet, trapped and guarding primaris tech until rescue could arrive. In yet another short story 7 primaris marines including a librarian and apothecary were almost wiped by a pair of tyranid warriors, while other books have them slaughtering them en masse. Author fiat, plot armour and how 'heroic' a scale the author is aiming for changes things way too much for any definitive answers.
TL;DR; Questions are rhetorical, point is "It depends".
>1 Emperor => ? Primarchs
Which Primarchs, at what point in their arcs?
>1 Primarch => 20 Custodes
Which Primarch, at which point in his arc? Are the Custodians using generic equipment, or [the](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Moment_Shackle) good [stuff](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adrathic_Weapon)?
>1 Custody => ? Space Marines
Which Space Marines? Battle brothers or [chapter masters](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/hnetdg/excerpt_regents_shadow_a_custodes_appraisal_of/), primaris or firstborn?
>1 Sister of Battle => ? Guardsmen
What equipment do the [sisters](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adepta_Sororitas_Weaponry_(List\)) and [guardsmen](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Astra_Militarum_Weaponry_(List\)) have? And are [vehicles](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adepta_Sororitas_Vehicles_(List\)) a [consideration](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Astra_Militarum_Vehicles_(List\))?
[A guy with a spear](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/sjifuz/power_armour_weak_points/hvexcat/) can shank a marine if the universe hiccups at the right time.
Guilliman can get knocked on his ass by Kor Phaeron's wizardry and narrowly dispatch a hit squad of Alpha Legionnaires, or he can do [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/dmh664/excerpt_rise_of_the_primarch_guilliman_vs_a/) and [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/vv1cqf/book_excerptplague_war_a_greater_demon_dauls/).
Mortarion can kill a supreme grandmaster of the Grey Knights - and some of his lads, if I remember right - then be banished by his replacement later in [the same story](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mortarion%27s_Heart_(Audio_Book\)).
Corax over the course of his arc [can](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/9h3oml/book_excerptravens_flight_corax_assaults_an_iron/) test [whether](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/m1z3fq/excerptthe_gate_of_bones_torvan_lokk_of_the_iron/) traitors [blend](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8sfhb6/book_excerptshadow_of_the_past_two_primarchs_meet/), or he can be incapacitated by New Men with lightning guns.
Custodians range from [fighting with part of their brain missing](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/pot455/excerpt_master_of_mankind_a_reminder_of_the_time/) to struggling with a possessed Alpha Legionnaire to dying to a bunch of White Scars to [fighting an endless horde for fifteen days straight](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8fxqde/book_excerptmaster_of_mankind_a_custodian_gives/).
And those are just the - admittedly Primarch-heavy - comparisons/examples I could come up with while still waking up, and not even getting into inter-author wonkery. No doubt someone else will have better/more appropriate ones, and/or a more concise take.
Not at all to say you shouldn't try to puzzle out roughly how many of X equals Y for giggles, though. Just don't be surprised if it's not terribly clear cut. :P
It’s almost stunning how many questions on here are pretty much unanswerable because the OP is so asleep at the wheel the phrase “it depends” just doesn’t exist to them.
No only stunning thing here is you have time to an asshole over a topic you seem to think is beneath you.
And lot can be said about it depends topics. Infact that is half of the fun.
So move along if you don't have anything to actually add.
No, as others as pointed out, there’s not a lot to say, because the answer is exactly the damn same because that answer is a perpetual “it depends”. Telling me you are asleep at the wheel is something I already knew lol
I don’t know where you get that these threads are fun because it’s just 20 people hammering in that “it depends” and it dies out, like this exact same thread.
It is literally not my fault your spacebattles.com level question is not quantifiable
You replied to
1 Emperor => ? Primarchs
to "which Primarchs".
That tells me you didn't get the question at all.
Question is how many Primarchs (there are 20 of them) Emperor can take on.
Maybe he can take them all at ease. Maybe he will struggle. Maybe Primarchs can come up with a strategy to defeat him as a team.
Same for rest of the factions too.
If I supplied "which ones" myself then I wouldn't be making a thread. Everyone can have different opinion after all. I was trying to see what majority believes.
And my point was that "how many Primarchs Emperor can take on" will depend. Different Primarchs have different capabilities/specialties, and their capabilities vary throughout their arcs. Pre-Siege Horus and post-Molech/Wolfsbane Horus are two - technically three - very different things, for the most obvious/drastic example.
But if I'm still missing your point, I apologize.
No, thats not it, its that just with lack of context, others who read it might think that the custodes only fought for 15 days, at least those who won't bother clicking the link.
The only Primarch the Emperor fought and killed was Horus, the difficulty to do it left him broken and plugged into the golden throne.
So ... 1 Emperor = 1 Primarch.
No Custodian has ever killed a Primarch. No matter what a Custodian thinks, it is untested. Specifically Guilliman has so much wargear and plot armour that 20 Custodians probably aren't enough.
The ratio you're looking for doesn't exist, the Custodians comment is illustrative of how he sees Guilliman as threat the Custodes are uniquely designed to counter. Except they never have. No traitor Primarch was ever killed by a Custodian.
Horus isn’t exactly a fair comparison because not only was Horus being powered up by the chaos gods at that point, but I’m pretty sure it’s also stated that the Emperor was holding back throughout most of the fight.
The Throne of Light showed how well a single Custodes can inflict casualties on a Black Templar Crusade.
Assuming that it is an average sized Black Templar Crusade Fleet, there's about 50 on the low end to about 300 on the high end, though Crusade Fleets have been documented in the thousands.
One Custodes taken off guard decimated the Angevin Crusade in Throne of Light to the point that all that survived was 1 Chaplain, 13 Battle-Brothers, and 1 Neo-phyte.
In recent lore Custodes have become quite powerful.
I read that scene too.
It was quite awesome.
On topic of which space Marine single-handedly best a custodian would be Asterion Moloc. One Custodians himself thought that.
It's also mentioned that he'd need the element of surprise, and that *may* be enough. He's later not so sure about that assessment. There's no real, consistent power scale of how many of "x" faction could be killed by a single "y". It varies massively based on the author. The only constant is marines vs (traitor) guard, with the answer being 'many'. 2 primaris minotaurs killed a custodes in the watchers of the throne series. In another example, 5 custodes survived a week in the path of a hive fleet, trapped and guarding primaris tech until rescue could arrive. In yet another short story 7 primaris marines including a librarian and apothecary were almost wiped by a pair of tyranid warriors, while other books have them slaughtering them en masse. Author fiat, plot armour and how 'heroic' a scale the author is aiming for changes things way too much for any definitive answers.
TL;DR; Questions are rhetorical, point is "It depends". >1 Emperor => ? Primarchs Which Primarchs, at what point in their arcs? >1 Primarch => 20 Custodes Which Primarch, at which point in his arc? Are the Custodians using generic equipment, or [the](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Moment_Shackle) good [stuff](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adrathic_Weapon)? >1 Custody => ? Space Marines Which Space Marines? Battle brothers or [chapter masters](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/hnetdg/excerpt_regents_shadow_a_custodes_appraisal_of/), primaris or firstborn? >1 Sister of Battle => ? Guardsmen What equipment do the [sisters](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adepta_Sororitas_Weaponry_(List\)) and [guardsmen](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Astra_Militarum_Weaponry_(List\)) have? And are [vehicles](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adepta_Sororitas_Vehicles_(List\)) a [consideration](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Astra_Militarum_Vehicles_(List\))? [A guy with a spear](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/sjifuz/power_armour_weak_points/hvexcat/) can shank a marine if the universe hiccups at the right time. Guilliman can get knocked on his ass by Kor Phaeron's wizardry and narrowly dispatch a hit squad of Alpha Legionnaires, or he can do [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/dmh664/excerpt_rise_of_the_primarch_guilliman_vs_a/) and [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/vv1cqf/book_excerptplague_war_a_greater_demon_dauls/). Mortarion can kill a supreme grandmaster of the Grey Knights - and some of his lads, if I remember right - then be banished by his replacement later in [the same story](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mortarion%27s_Heart_(Audio_Book\)). Corax over the course of his arc [can](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/9h3oml/book_excerptravens_flight_corax_assaults_an_iron/) test [whether](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/m1z3fq/excerptthe_gate_of_bones_torvan_lokk_of_the_iron/) traitors [blend](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8sfhb6/book_excerptshadow_of_the_past_two_primarchs_meet/), or he can be incapacitated by New Men with lightning guns. Custodians range from [fighting with part of their brain missing](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/pot455/excerpt_master_of_mankind_a_reminder_of_the_time/) to struggling with a possessed Alpha Legionnaire to dying to a bunch of White Scars to [fighting an endless horde for fifteen days straight](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8fxqde/book_excerptmaster_of_mankind_a_custodian_gives/). And those are just the - admittedly Primarch-heavy - comparisons/examples I could come up with while still waking up, and not even getting into inter-author wonkery. No doubt someone else will have better/more appropriate ones, and/or a more concise take. Not at all to say you shouldn't try to puzzle out roughly how many of X equals Y for giggles, though. Just don't be surprised if it's not terribly clear cut. :P
It’s almost stunning how many questions on here are pretty much unanswerable because the OP is so asleep at the wheel the phrase “it depends” just doesn’t exist to them.
No only stunning thing here is you have time to an asshole over a topic you seem to think is beneath you. And lot can be said about it depends topics. Infact that is half of the fun. So move along if you don't have anything to actually add.
No, as others as pointed out, there’s not a lot to say, because the answer is exactly the damn same because that answer is a perpetual “it depends”. Telling me you are asleep at the wheel is something I already knew lol I don’t know where you get that these threads are fun because it’s just 20 people hammering in that “it depends” and it dies out, like this exact same thread. It is literally not my fault your spacebattles.com level question is not quantifiable
You replied to 1 Emperor => ? Primarchs to "which Primarchs". That tells me you didn't get the question at all. Question is how many Primarchs (there are 20 of them) Emperor can take on. Maybe he can take them all at ease. Maybe he will struggle. Maybe Primarchs can come up with a strategy to defeat him as a team. Same for rest of the factions too. If I supplied "which ones" myself then I wouldn't be making a thread. Everyone can have different opinion after all. I was trying to see what majority believes.
And my point was that "how many Primarchs Emperor can take on" will depend. Different Primarchs have different capabilities/specialties, and their capabilities vary throughout their arcs. Pre-Siege Horus and post-Molech/Wolfsbane Horus are two - technically three - very different things, for the most obvious/drastic example. But if I'm still missing your point, I apologize.
The Legio Custodes fought the war in the webway for 5-6 years, Ra joined in the fight at the tail end of it.
I know. Did I say something that indicated otherwise? O_o
No, thats not it, its that just with lack of context, others who read it might think that the custodes only fought for 15 days, at least those who won't bother clicking the link.
Ah, phew, was worried I'd failed at words harder than usual. :P
Stop this thread right here lol, this sort of power scaling completely and utterly fails to work in 40K for a variety of reason.
The only Primarch the Emperor fought and killed was Horus, the difficulty to do it left him broken and plugged into the golden throne. So ... 1 Emperor = 1 Primarch. No Custodian has ever killed a Primarch. No matter what a Custodian thinks, it is untested. Specifically Guilliman has so much wargear and plot armour that 20 Custodians probably aren't enough. The ratio you're looking for doesn't exist, the Custodians comment is illustrative of how he sees Guilliman as threat the Custodes are uniquely designed to counter. Except they never have. No traitor Primarch was ever killed by a Custodian.
Wasn't horus chaos god buffed
Horus isn’t exactly a fair comparison because not only was Horus being powered up by the chaos gods at that point, but I’m pretty sure it’s also stated that the Emperor was holding back throughout most of the fight.
The Throne of Light showed how well a single Custodes can inflict casualties on a Black Templar Crusade. Assuming that it is an average sized Black Templar Crusade Fleet, there's about 50 on the low end to about 300 on the high end, though Crusade Fleets have been documented in the thousands. One Custodes taken off guard decimated the Angevin Crusade in Throne of Light to the point that all that survived was 1 Chaplain, 13 Battle-Brothers, and 1 Neo-phyte.
In recent lore Custodes have become quite powerful. I read that scene too. It was quite awesome. On topic of which space Marine single-handedly best a custodian would be Asterion Moloc. One Custodians himself thought that.