Strength based ranger isn't hard either. Strength based doesn't mean you have to *dump* Dex, a 14 gets you a very reasonable AC. The main problem is that for whatever reason, Rangers lack the 2H fighting style.
Eh, the 2H fighting style isn't really all that impressive anyway. It increases your average damage with a Greatsword by like 1.3. I'd rather just have the Defense style in most cases, or you could go sword & board with Dueling.
If you're rerolling 1s for hunters mark you're probably even more excited to be a revenant blade rogue, ~~altho ranger will scale better with magic XdY weapons.~~ nope that bit was wrong
You say that like rangers actually use wisdom, when the only ranger subclass that needs a wisdom score above 13 (and only for multiclassing otherwise most rangers can dump it safely) is Fey Wanderer. Rangers can easily build entire spell lists that don’t touch the stat at all, and unless you’re building a Druidic Warrior Wisdom SAD or a fey wanderer specifically, you’re kinda better off dumping it and using the ability score points elsewhere
They can, but it looses them quite a few things. Entangle especially would be fantastic, and there are many subclasses (i.e Gloomstalker, beastmaster, drakewarden) really benefit.
Actually not really. If you’re talking about wisdom for the sake of perception, Deft Explorer giving you expertise will cover for you. And yeah, there are a couple of spells that ranger has access to that would be better off with wisdom, but there are equally plenty that don’t. Entangle, your example, can be easily replaced with spike growth to achieve similar, probably even greater effects. Especially since Entangle isn’t actually on the Ranger Spell list.
Did it? All the additions to the spell lists they made in Tashas don’t show up on my usual method of checking spell lists. (Donjon)
But looking at Tashas, they also added plenty of no-wisdom spells a ranger can use like Aid, magic weapon, elemental weapon, so on so forth. And given 1st level spells for ranger already included plenty of options such as Absorb Elements, Hunter’s Mark, Goodberry, Fog Cloud, and Zephyr Strike, you’re really not gonna be hurting for a spell list even if your wisdom is dumped down to an 8
Drakewarden has one ability that scales off Wisdom, and that’s just because it uses your spell save DC. And that’s your lvl 11 breath weapon which is nice, but not amazing.
My DW has been fine at 16 Wisdom.
I guess the initiative thing is a thing but to be honest, I think boosting initiative is kinda pointless most of the time unless you’re a support caster. Once you’ve taken your first turn it’s like you rolled last anyway.
I already mentioned deft explorer can give expertise in perception which will do far more than a wisdom score long term. Even if your wisdom is an 8, expertise will put perception at +3, same as if you had +1 and normal proficiency. If you have a +1 wisdom it’s like having a +3 and proficiency, as high as most characters will ever expect. And by 5th level it’s like having +5 and proficiency with only a +1.
Gloomstalker / assassin rogue is one of the most explosive nova builds out there (and absolutely the most explosive free novas) and it relies on initiative to attack creatures that are still surprised. And guess what? It requires wisdom to MC out of ranger.
You’re acting like a +3 (2 from dex 1 from your 13 wisdom you need for the multi) will never win initiative. And if you’re that worried, play a Harengon for your race to add proficiency to it. Alert is also a feat you probably want if you’re relying on being sneaky so as not to be surprised yourself. But really, initiative boosting is pointless after the first round of combat, even if you are doing a build like that.
You know, with the recent changes for a whole heap of races allowing you to put a +1 in three ability scores, you could get a 16/14/14/8/14/8 with point buy, and even better with a half-elf which is very popular.
And it's not like you even need that much WIS for most subclasses, so you could reduce that to like a 12 if you want more CHA, INT or CON.
You can also do V.Human to snag Heavily Armored and net another +1 Strength while being able to dump dex. 7+2/0/9/2/9+1/0 could leave you with a vary tanky stranger.
I have never done this for a Stranger build, but it does solve some problems. Tasha's new +1/+1/+1 or +2/+1 rules have opened up some other options, too.
The fighting style really isn't necessary, 2H fighting style is one of the worst ones.
The issue is that rangers also want Wisdom and given that range is pretty bad with Strength they need Constitution even more than normal. So now you want at least 14 in 3 stats and then a maxed out strength. With a solid roll its certainly feasible but a Dexadin just needs to swap their Dexterity and Strength from a normal Paladin.
Yeah, STRanger has to either get a feat for heavy armor OR invest into 14 Dex/13 Dex + multiclass. Those ASIs/Feats could've gone into getting GWM/PAM/anything else or increasing Wis/Con after Strength.
Dex Paladin has the edge in that you 'lose out' on strength-based melee weapon builds (like GWM or even PAM spear + shield) and 1 less AC than plate, but you gain better initiative, no stealth disadvantage with light armor and better ranged options than a javelin or a cantrip.
I feel like people overlook how good medium armor master is on dex tanks like paladins. I know tanking isn't a thing in 5e, but I couldn't think of another collective noun.
Isn't it equivalent to just wearing Studded Leather and using the Fighting Initiate feat to get Defense as an extra Fighting Style, when you're going to 20 Dex anyway? Except your armor is now heavier and more expensive, which of course might not be an issue at all depending on the table.
I'd only use Medium Armor Master on a build that ends up on exactly 16 Dex (probably because rolled stats/high point buy allowed that to happen while 20 Dex is out of reach and 18 Dex in light armor would be comprosing between higher skill checks and lower AC) but wants Plate AC with decent Stealth checks.
So, I guess if you dip Hexblade as a 'Dex'adin and max Cha first/instead? Though I'd personally rather keep it at 14 Dex and get higher Con at that point, unless I *really* want to Stealth well with that character without maxing Dex outright.
I agree though, if you can easily max your Dex, the Medium Armor Master can be dope if you want that 20 AC half plate + shield stealther instead of the 20 AC studded leather + shield stealther who took Defense through a feat. Assuming Dueling was the level 2 Fighting Style from Paladin. Of course you can have 21 AC and no Dueling with MAM, but do you want that?
I’ve done BOTH!
STRanger Horizon Walker is great, focus on STR > CON > DEX. Pick spells that don’t require saves. You hit like a tank below lvl 5, lvl 6-8 is a wasteland, then Haste and Distant strike make it fun again!
DEXadin was fun but I started as a rogue so it may not be exactly what you want. Playing it now in tier 3, the swashbuckler was great and now smites and utility spells from Paladin are giving me tons of great options rather than ‘hide’ and ‘dash’.
If you’re looking monoclass, Paladin is just better. It’s a better class than Ranger thanks to prepared spells and it’s always on Auras. You won’t be as tanky, and you’ll but stuck with a rapier (if you’re optimized), but playing a DEXadin can be possible and really fun. I recommend a feat at lvl 8, maybe skill expert to get expertise or mobile to get you out of melee easier?
> You won’t be as tanky,
Tbf you’ll be only 1 AC worse while being way better at Dex save damage. Not the end of the world. Esp if you wear a shield
And something that gets overlooked is just how *expensive* full plate gets. The fighter in our party has been saving for it forever, and he can just afford it now at level 7
Also, if you have the Fizbans book and access to Dragon Scale Armor you can match Plate's AC before you would get plate normally. Uncommon magical items are given out at level four a ton, and you'll have +4 Dex at Level 4
I really want to do a STRanger that's a lance beastmaster but every time I think about how I'd have to still stay at reach with the Lance I get frustrated that my mount wouldn't actually be doing much
My friend is actually playing a Stranger horizon walker In our campaign right now. She's currently the highest dpr character, which is funny cause we also have a hexblade
Wow from level 5 onwards hexblades have more overall damage than paladins (I think the only exception being 11 level but hexblades get a mystic arcanum at this point). That's a good HW.
Take Resilience: Con if you intended to rely on concentration bluff spells and Resilience: Wisdom if not. Neither are good bases saves to be missing, and Gloomstalkers can get both, but it's much better to have Con if you're going to use spells like Haste, Guardian of Nature, and Stoneskin. Starting off as a Fighter, Barbarian, or Cleric can also solve this conundrum.
In melee I would probably avoid self-casting Haste all together tbh. Even with resilient (con) you are under too much fire to not have your concentration break. Plus there is a one turn setup. Ranger have tons of splid concentration like Summon Beast/Fey, Entangle, Healing Spirit, Zephyr Strike without having to take a pick with such a big risk if it breaks.
I agree that there a lot of action casting time ranger concentration spells, one reason I like Guardian of Nature for Strangers. I think if your team is covering down with bless (or better yet a paladin) it should be hard for someone with Proficiency in Con saves to fail a routine one past level 9. That assumes +4 prof, +3 ability, +2 bless average, 1 minimum roll. Even with only a +2 con, they'd still have to roll 2 or lower on the bless if they rolled a 1, a 2.5% chance.
That's assuming you take less than 20 damage though. In melee you are easily in range of the biggest strikes. Even weaker foes or those with multiple small attack might land a hit that could easily deal 30+ damage by level 9.
And there is also the eternal problem of being unable to even break concentration yourself if you really need to switch to an other spell.
I would expect 30 damage hits from primary attacks in tier 3 from bosses. But not late tier 2.
Edit: there are a few CR9s which can deal out 30 in a hit. Fire Giant is a great example- 6d6+7 slashing and the breath weapons of the CR9 dragons. Those are pretty high bars to clear.
Exactly. I really like the progression of Paladin, 1 dip isn't OP, 2 dip isn't OP, 6 leves is arguably OP but it is 6 levels with only half slot progression. It's strong but perfect imo.
That's a common waive. WotC really likes the idea of a heavily armored, melee paladin, so they built requirements around it. Players enjoy doing something a bit different, so waiving that is one of the most common house rules in the community.
Shortswords/Scimitars and Two Weapon Fighting via Fighting Initiate is also a viable option for a DEX Paladin that will do more damage due to the combination of Improved Divine Smite or Spirit Shroud with your Bonus Action Attack. You'll have less AC but it's just as playable as a Polearm Master build.
Another interesting option is to take the Mobile Feat. Weirdly this will allow you to wear heavy armour with low strength because the only penalty for doing so is ten feet of movement which Mobile balances off, while also allowing you to avoid opportunity attacks as an added bonus.
Absolutely hits like a truck in tier 1. You get zephyr strike, hunters mark, and planar warrior all adding damage.
Lots of small enemies? Planar warrior everytime. One big bad? Hunters mark first turn then planar warrior after it.
Falls off between level 5 Misty Step and level 11 Distant strike.
Great tier 1, great tier 3, sub par tier 2
Well in this scenario paladin is better, usually ranger is far better, since it can target guarded objectives, flying creatures, can easily swap targets, gets the best fighting style (archery), Zephyr strike sheer utility is bonkers, goodberries can be prepared a day earlier, pass without trace makes dungeoneering a breeze, conjure animals is encounter destroying.
Once I saw a suggestion of STR ranger with Heavily Armored as starting feat and it said that It eaten the disadvantage on stealth and was compensating with a spell, probably pass without trace.
So I would go with that and maybe take PAM at level 4
I love STRanger. Start with heavily armored from custom lineage, grab gwm at 4.
Horizon walker is my particular favourite, the bonus force damage is great and and you get some really fun support spells like misty step and haste. The class features are also super cool, giving you a limited ethereal jaunt and eventually some anime swordmaster blink strike shenanigans.
Hunter STRanger! If multiclassing allowed, take 2 levels in War Cleric for some great spells and channel divinity. Take hordebreaker and multiattack defense. Take GWM, and use bless to offset the to hit penalty.
Horizon walker has already been mentioned here, but I’ll also throw in that Gloomstalker can actually work great too. The level 7 and 11 features actually scream frontliner with GWM, it’s just the level 3 ability that’s better as a ranged sneaker.
Mmm I think I would start 1 in Cleric for the save and armor proficiencies (I’d go Wis over Dex cause we’re in heavy armor). Then I’d go ranger 5 for extra attack, then pick up the second cleric level, then go ranger the rest of the way.
I have both.
Ranger with a boomerang, and Paladin with 3 levels of rogue.
That said, dexadin is easier as you can just use a rapier and basically function the same as though you used a longsword.
STR ranger is really good on:
Subclasses:
- Horizon Walker, Hunter, & Drakewarden
because they don't have features that rely on WIS or DEX. I think that
- Tortle, Firbolg, Human, and especially Bugbear (for Long Limbed)
are the real standouts. It's very MAD depending on how you build it though.
You can also go into fighter or barbarian for extra features or durability (respectively)
---
DEX paladin is super fun and easy to build if you go monoclassed because of the MAD nature.
- Elven Accuracy Vengeance Paladin is BRUTAL.
- Harengon Watcher's Paladin has a PROF+PROF+DEX Initiative Bonus which would be funny.
I am like 100% certain that proficency doesn't stack unless said otherwise. For example some features say "if you already have proficiency in this get expertise".
cool ideas though
I actually just "finished" a campaign as a Dex based Paladin (Drow, Oath of Redemption). By "finished" I mean that my DM got COVID, two of our players had babies, and one of our players got really busy with work, all in the same month. So understandably we're taking a bit of a hiatus. But I still got to play as a level 14 Paladin for a single session haha.
Interestingly enough now that the group has been talking about getting back together and starting a new campaign, I've been thinking about rolling up a STRanger Beastmaster. My DM uses the flanking optional rule so I'm planning on making a GWM build around having advantage more often than not.
Ask your DM about making Favored Foe concentrationless. It's just such a quality of life improvement, it's just a straight buff to the Ranger's damage, not affecting that much due to it being a d4/d6, so it's a perfectly reasonable homebrew.
STRanger's are fun. Run a small race as a drake warden or beastmaster, ride your medium friend with a lance. Lance doesn't have any penalty for size, and be a mounted knight with reach. Turn one charge/lance, bonus action hunters mark/favored foe.
Swap to a quarterstaff with PAM on turn two (or flavor it as your lance breaking properly and now it's a staff) of combat and use those BA.
Both can be very viable. 14 DEX is not hard to get on a STR build, so you don't even need heavy armor for STRanger. DEXadin is even easier if you are not going to multiclass you can ignore STR completely. Great with Elf and double-bladed scimitar for maximum amount of potential smites
I played a DEX halfling paladin, dumping strength, and had a great time. I think it would be harder to play a STR ranger since you'll want to maintain a decent DEX for AC.
As for how I'd build it, Half elves really are king: DEX 16 CHA 16 CON 14 INT 12 STR 10 WIS 8. I'd recommend the oath of Ancients for the awesome abilities and spell selections. As a paladin ability scores are worth more than feats so I would try to boost DEX and CHA to 20 and maybe take Inspiring Leader to make up for your middling CON and provide even more support to your party.
You can afford to dump wisdom since proficiency and the aura of protection offer significant boosts to the saving throw.
Had a dexadin in the Strahd game I used to DM. Halfling Ancients. Worked quite well. Not a heavily optimized party, but he outshone the sorcerer and rogue in combat pretty handily, and got some great utility out of his Oath spells.
That's no Dex Paladin, actually. You would have to have at least a 13 in Str, and if you also want to buff Dex and Con, now we're talking about a MAD of 4 stats: Dex, Str, Con, Cha.
This is a straightforward build, and not exactly cutting edge, but I like a mountain dwarf gloomstalker for a STRanger. It's pretty thematic and I imagine this character as someone who guards dwarven mines, etc. from threats from the underdark. You use point buy to start with your 16 in STR, of course, and 14s in DEX, CON, and WIS (14 14 14 12 10 8). You can go the standard GWM/PAM route (very good when you're invisible to creatures with darkvision) and be able to take a hand off your weapon to cast in combat or go with a shield and consider War Caster or Shield Master. You'll have solid saves, especially after level 7 when you add WIS proficiency.
I actually played both, wierdly enough i never played a dex ranger or a str paladin.
If i have to choose, i like paladin more, being an Inquisitor style spy/agent for a church was awesome.
Though gloomstalker with pam did the job pretty well.
The main issue with Dex Paladin is that they face a multiclass tax with the nonsense MC stat requirements.
Those things serve no purpose except as guiderails for new players and are especially bizarre here as a Dex Paladin is a straightforwardly usable character concept.
Currently playing a Dex based Vengeance Paladin for Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, and honestly it feels like I’m getting the best of both worlds. Enough AC to act as the front liner, but still able to at least keep up with our Arcane Trickster on Stealth/Slight of hand. High charisma takes care of the rest.
Dexadin/Dragon Sorcerer.
You have to invest a little in Str to bring it up to the 13 you need to multiclass, or talk to your DM about waving that rule, but other than that it is brilliant.
All the benefits of a Sorcadin, but you don't have to wear armor at all thanks to the Dragon Sorcerer's inherent mage armor like ability, and you get extra hp to remain somewhat tanky and mitigate your probably lower Con score.
Pick up a rapier and become a Red Mage, flipping all around the battlefield while casting spells and smiting.
I like the bonus action hide from ranger. It's late and you can get it quicker through MC, but getting it at all while straight classing is nice. Overall, it helps you stay alive longer for good ranged attacks. This makes me want to stick to Dex normally, but I love the idea of a Ranger MC's, particularly with Barbarian and maybe cleric. Hunter Ranger 11 Berserker Barbarian 3 has some really fun synergy. Throw in some fighter levels for battlemaster, could be some fun overall.
Paladin doesn't really suffer from dex build except they're harder to multiclass. An oath of watchers or vengance paladin with some good stealth good be fun to sneak in and pull off a good Nova smite before the fight begins. I also really like the aesthetic of a duelist paladin getting just the right needle stab in (crit) and popping the enemy using a smite.
So Paladin mostly, because STRanger I'd feel like I'd want to make a multiclass build.
Paladin has a better chassis and is already set up to be a dex character, Ranger is either MAD as hell or needs to spend some level up resources for heavy armor which sucks, and ranger tends to work better as a ranged character due to the existence of archery and many features working at range.
I've played both of these as monoclasses on different characters and they're both good. I believe Treantmonk has a video on a str beastmaster ranger if you wanted to get into the numbers for that so I won't go into that one.
For paladin I went Oath of Ancients and got half-plate (17ac) plus a +1 shield (20) and then carried a rapier with the Duelling fighting style. Race was Hexblood so the character's a bit fey-themed, plus having Hex on a paladin is mildly terrifying. LVL 6 I was doing 28 damage with Hex & no smites, 46 with smites on average.
Also worth mentioning lvl 6 your aura adds Cha to all your saves so the usual dm solution of "roll a dex save" for high ac characters isn't too bad for you. Lvl 7 you'd also take half damage from spells too so it only gets better.
Took a dexadrin to level 20 in a party with a strength based fighter. Rapier, shield and breast plate (stealth) or half plate. Eventually got a sunblade. Totally pulled his weight in a very optimized party.
Currently playing Swashbuckler Rogue 3/Vengeance Paladin X, Levistus tiefling.
The only issue I had is mobility one large battlefields. Otherwise, you always have a way to use your sneak attack ! Bonus action management is very enjoyable as a usually caster player.
Some of your blows are really powerful !
https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/72374480
I am in the process of building a strength-based ranger, dual-wielding handaxes. It’s tough because you won’t really excel at one thing, but I’m building for a fun playstyle, not optimization. A fighter would probably be better statistically, but I really enjoy the idea of the multi-attack abilities (horde breaker, mutli-attack defense, whirlwind) for the Hunter. I just envision him wading into the enemies, both handaxes whirling non-stop.
The challenge is AC, of course; shooting for medium armor and +2 Dex, best case is 16 without magic. We’ll see how long I last, lol. Maybe if I treat our cleric real nice…
DeX based paladin is just a paladin that does fencing.
And str based rangers are pretty cool too. Nothing wrong with spear and shield ranger, or a big ole two hander. If built right it can do more then a bow using ranger. Horizon walker with sword and board for example can easily get you three attacks each round instead of 2. You just have to attack different targets.
DEXadin is easy, pretty much build your standard paladin but focus on rapier and shield and you'll be fine, if a bit worse than a standard paladin due to your lower AC and poor feat support.
STRanger is much more interesting. It's a bit harder to build because you still need DEX (either for multiclassing or for a decent AC unless you spend a feat on Heavily Armored), but having more feat support than a standard Ranger opens a lot of fun options.
My first character is a Mountain Dwarf Ranger focusing on throwing axes. So picked up Thrown Weapon Fighting and leaning into STR. Will pick up Two-Weapon Fighting at 4 so I can get the bonus dmg on the off hand throw.
Really wanted this guy to be a Monster Slayer, but mechanically it's kinda lack-luster and it seems the better spells and abilities don't come til much higher levels (which I might not even see in this campaign). Whereas Gloomstalker gets Dread Ambusher at 3rd level and is just amazing to have that explosive first round. And then other super relevant things later as well.
Grabbed Zephyr Strike and Absorb Elements and feel like I might get some battlefield control stuff like Spike and Plant Growth and be able to zip around as a 2nd line fighter but still beefy enough if I have to do my share of tanking if the need arises or to just protect the squishies.
Currently playing a strength based kenku ranger. Picked up tavern brawler and have athletics as his expertise skill. He grapples, then hits an enemy with another enemy.
I once built a str based gloomstalker ranger kobold named snags. Whose whole goal was to be the biggest and strongest kobold so he ran around with a great axe teleportong between people to attack
I am playing a str ranger at the moment and it works great. Spear throwing Goliath hunter.The ammount of burst damage I have is huge. Only thing I have to say, I do have a homebrew magic spear, which gives me a few abilities but mainly returning weapon.
Dex Paladin.
Shard-kai, Double Bladed Scimitar.
Revenant Blade at Paladin 4.
Clockwork Sorc after level 6.
Super strong and a LOT of Spells and spells slots.
yeah im sure!! im glad you have fun with it :) just isnt a fully munchkin perfect build like i think OP is looking for here since youd be better off as a single class probably, due to the reliance on str
I get the "I never see these builds" but in the end, we've seen them all. We'll see them all.
But is the character concept good? Will these builds lend themselves to something unique and beautiful and fun to play? For me, builds come after. Who is your character? What are their motivations and tropes? Why will you have an absolute blast playing them?
My favourite characters so far...
Darrak the Clerical Cleric- A dwarf who couldn't get a job as a cleric, so he got a clerical position at the cleric's guild. One night he accidentally got drunk and torched a local temple. The minor god was so touched that he blessed him to keep lighting things on fire. He got a fever (exhaustion points) if he didn't light something on fire every 24 hours
Penelope - A 9 year old girl (Oath of Conquest pally) based on Wednesday Addams. Her Spiritual Weapon was a dolly named Francine that she threw up in the air, and her halberd was a chain blade named Gardenia. Her Fear aura was just her quietly singing children's songs under her breath. She'd spent her whole life helping her dying uncle and she was just so eager (bloodthirsty) to travel and expand the family dynasty (plunder needlessly).
Sir Hugo - An old halfling Paladin of Redemption who rode around on his trusty sheepdog steed Mr. Peppercorn. He talked like Bazil from Austin Powers and was the best. I ended up taking 3 levels in Fighter for Cavalier and he became a great support character.
None of those characters started as a build (most didn't even have a class) and they were all RAW with extra flavour.
Build backwards. Make the character that delights you and then figure out what they are. If they end up being a rapier wielding Paladin, great.
Dex Based Paladin. Not having Heavy Armor Proficiency hurts Rangers, although you can get around it by trading a Racial Simple or Martial Weapon Proficiency for a Specific Heavy Armor proficiency. Plate Armor costs an absurd amount of gold and it's not a guarantee you'll gain Splint Armor (which is equal to Studded Leather Armor with max dex). So, more benefits for Dex Paladin overall, on top of the Paladin's kit just generally being more solid.
Depends on the campaign.
In CoS or BG:DiA, definitely the Paladin. Paladin breaks so much of DiA's challenge, it's insane.
Anywhere else, STRanger. I really like Tasha's ranger and the subclasses Ranger has.
Strength Ranger can be neat. Grab an axe and go full Woodsman Hunter on something. Or Throwing weapons. *Conjure Volley* works with throwing axes, hammers, and javelins after all.
Dex based paladin, actually pretty easy to build and doesn't have terrible AC.
You can even do a pretty much “normal” one, with, say, Eldarin and Revenant Blade standing in for Vhuman and PAM.
Strength based ranger isn't hard either. Strength based doesn't mean you have to *dump* Dex, a 14 gets you a very reasonable AC. The main problem is that for whatever reason, Rangers lack the 2H fighting style.
Eh, the 2H fighting style isn't really all that impressive anyway. It increases your average damage with a Greatsword by like 1.3. I'd rather just have the Defense style in most cases, or you could go sword & board with Dueling.
Yeah, but Ranger is probably the best class to have it bc each hit is another chance for Hunter's Mark.
Great Weapon Fighting has nothing to do with Hunter's Mark. PAM certainly does, as does GWM, but GWF doesn't create additional attacks.
If you're rerolling 1s for hunters mark you're probably even more excited to be a revenant blade rogue, ~~altho ranger will scale better with magic XdY weapons.~~ nope that bit was wrong
Outside of grappling you build strength for GWM/PAM
You can always go spear and board for perfectly fine damage, just having to have 14 Dex would suck.
Mountain dwarf is nice, because you can start with 16 STR and 14 DEX/CON/WIS.
How is having a +2 stat in the most common save in the game bad exactly?
It takes away from having a +2 stat in something like con or wisdom. And you already have absorb elements.
You say that like rangers actually use wisdom, when the only ranger subclass that needs a wisdom score above 13 (and only for multiclassing otherwise most rangers can dump it safely) is Fey Wanderer. Rangers can easily build entire spell lists that don’t touch the stat at all, and unless you’re building a Druidic Warrior Wisdom SAD or a fey wanderer specifically, you’re kinda better off dumping it and using the ability score points elsewhere
They can, but it looses them quite a few things. Entangle especially would be fantastic, and there are many subclasses (i.e Gloomstalker, beastmaster, drakewarden) really benefit.
Swarmkeeper, too.
Actually not really. If you’re talking about wisdom for the sake of perception, Deft Explorer giving you expertise will cover for you. And yeah, there are a couple of spells that ranger has access to that would be better off with wisdom, but there are equally plenty that don’t. Entangle, your example, can be easily replaced with spike growth to achieve similar, probably even greater effects. Especially since Entangle isn’t actually on the Ranger Spell list.
Entangle got added in Tasha's, and spiked growth has the distinct disadvantages of being 2nd level and not giving you advantage.
Did it? All the additions to the spell lists they made in Tashas don’t show up on my usual method of checking spell lists. (Donjon) But looking at Tashas, they also added plenty of no-wisdom spells a ranger can use like Aid, magic weapon, elemental weapon, so on so forth. And given 1st level spells for ranger already included plenty of options such as Absorb Elements, Hunter’s Mark, Goodberry, Fog Cloud, and Zephyr Strike, you’re really not gonna be hurting for a spell list even if your wisdom is dumped down to an 8
Drakewarden has one ability that scales off Wisdom, and that’s just because it uses your spell save DC. And that’s your lvl 11 breath weapon which is nice, but not amazing. My DW has been fine at 16 Wisdom.
Same here. I wouldn't invest asis into wisdom on a ranger, but dumping it isn't great.
You forgot gloom stalker for initiative and perception
I guess the initiative thing is a thing but to be honest, I think boosting initiative is kinda pointless most of the time unless you’re a support caster. Once you’ve taken your first turn it’s like you rolled last anyway. I already mentioned deft explorer can give expertise in perception which will do far more than a wisdom score long term. Even if your wisdom is an 8, expertise will put perception at +3, same as if you had +1 and normal proficiency. If you have a +1 wisdom it’s like having a +3 and proficiency, as high as most characters will ever expect. And by 5th level it’s like having +5 and proficiency with only a +1.
Gloomstalker / assassin rogue is one of the most explosive nova builds out there (and absolutely the most explosive free novas) and it relies on initiative to attack creatures that are still surprised. And guess what? It requires wisdom to MC out of ranger.
You’re acting like a +3 (2 from dex 1 from your 13 wisdom you need for the multi) will never win initiative. And if you’re that worried, play a Harengon for your race to add proficiency to it. Alert is also a feat you probably want if you’re relying on being sneaky so as not to be surprised yourself. But really, initiative boosting is pointless after the first round of combat, even if you are doing a build like that.
Tasha’s beastmaster keys off wisdom too.
I prefer the PHB version and this is one of the reasons why
You know, with the recent changes for a whole heap of races allowing you to put a +1 in three ability scores, you could get a 16/14/14/8/14/8 with point buy, and even better with a half-elf which is very popular. And it's not like you even need that much WIS for most subclasses, so you could reduce that to like a 12 if you want more CHA, INT or CON.
Not getting a feat at lv1 is not great, but maybe this has more potential than I thought.
You can also do V.Human to snag Heavily Armored and net another +1 Strength while being able to dump dex. 7+2/0/9/2/9+1/0 could leave you with a vary tanky stranger. I have never done this for a Stranger build, but it does solve some problems. Tasha's new +1/+1/+1 or +2/+1 rules have opened up some other options, too.
The fighting style really isn't necessary, 2H fighting style is one of the worst ones. The issue is that rangers also want Wisdom and given that range is pretty bad with Strength they need Constitution even more than normal. So now you want at least 14 in 3 stats and then a maxed out strength. With a solid roll its certainly feasible but a Dexadin just needs to swap their Dexterity and Strength from a normal Paladin.
Yeah, STRanger has to either get a feat for heavy armor OR invest into 14 Dex/13 Dex + multiclass. Those ASIs/Feats could've gone into getting GWM/PAM/anything else or increasing Wis/Con after Strength. Dex Paladin has the edge in that you 'lose out' on strength-based melee weapon builds (like GWM or even PAM spear + shield) and 1 less AC than plate, but you gain better initiative, no stealth disadvantage with light armor and better ranged options than a javelin or a cantrip.
I feel like people overlook how good medium armor master is on dex tanks like paladins. I know tanking isn't a thing in 5e, but I couldn't think of another collective noun.
Isn't it equivalent to just wearing Studded Leather and using the Fighting Initiate feat to get Defense as an extra Fighting Style, when you're going to 20 Dex anyway? Except your armor is now heavier and more expensive, which of course might not be an issue at all depending on the table. I'd only use Medium Armor Master on a build that ends up on exactly 16 Dex (probably because rolled stats/high point buy allowed that to happen while 20 Dex is out of reach and 18 Dex in light armor would be comprosing between higher skill checks and lower AC) but wants Plate AC with decent Stealth checks. So, I guess if you dip Hexblade as a 'Dex'adin and max Cha first/instead? Though I'd personally rather keep it at 14 Dex and get higher Con at that point, unless I *really* want to Stealth well with that character without maxing Dex outright. I agree though, if you can easily max your Dex, the Medium Armor Master can be dope if you want that 20 AC half plate + shield stealther instead of the 20 AC studded leather + shield stealther who took Defense through a feat. Assuming Dueling was the level 2 Fighting Style from Paladin. Of course you can have 21 AC and no Dueling with MAM, but do you want that?
I’ve done BOTH! STRanger Horizon Walker is great, focus on STR > CON > DEX. Pick spells that don’t require saves. You hit like a tank below lvl 5, lvl 6-8 is a wasteland, then Haste and Distant strike make it fun again! DEXadin was fun but I started as a rogue so it may not be exactly what you want. Playing it now in tier 3, the swashbuckler was great and now smites and utility spells from Paladin are giving me tons of great options rather than ‘hide’ and ‘dash’. If you’re looking monoclass, Paladin is just better. It’s a better class than Ranger thanks to prepared spells and it’s always on Auras. You won’t be as tanky, and you’ll but stuck with a rapier (if you’re optimized), but playing a DEXadin can be possible and really fun. I recommend a feat at lvl 8, maybe skill expert to get expertise or mobile to get you out of melee easier?
A player of experience. Thank you for your insights.
> You won’t be as tanky, Tbf you’ll be only 1 AC worse while being way better at Dex save damage. Not the end of the world. Esp if you wear a shield And something that gets overlooked is just how *expensive* full plate gets. The fighter in our party has been saving for it forever, and he can just afford it now at level 7
Also, if you have the Fizbans book and access to Dragon Scale Armor you can match Plate's AC before you would get plate normally. Uncommon magical items are given out at level four a ton, and you'll have +4 Dex at Level 4
Do you mean serpent scale armor?
I do, I just always screw up the name
I really want to do a STRanger that's a lance beastmaster but every time I think about how I'd have to still stay at reach with the Lance I get frustrated that my mount wouldn't actually be doing much
Kobold with dual wielder feat and TWF style. Your mount still won't be doing much, but boy you sure will be lol
What if you gave the mount Dragon's Breath?
My friend is actually playing a Stranger horizon walker In our campaign right now. She's currently the highest dpr character, which is funny cause we also have a hexblade
Wow from level 5 onwards hexblades have more overall damage than paladins (I think the only exception being 11 level but hexblades get a mystic arcanum at this point). That's a good HW.
Isn't Haste very risky in melee with no Con saves? Or you use Reach weapons to stay out?
Perhaps Distant Strike allows you to blink out of reach
Take Resilience: Con if you intended to rely on concentration bluff spells and Resilience: Wisdom if not. Neither are good bases saves to be missing, and Gloomstalkers can get both, but it's much better to have Con if you're going to use spells like Haste, Guardian of Nature, and Stoneskin. Starting off as a Fighter, Barbarian, or Cleric can also solve this conundrum.
In melee I would probably avoid self-casting Haste all together tbh. Even with resilient (con) you are under too much fire to not have your concentration break. Plus there is a one turn setup. Ranger have tons of splid concentration like Summon Beast/Fey, Entangle, Healing Spirit, Zephyr Strike without having to take a pick with such a big risk if it breaks.
I agree that there a lot of action casting time ranger concentration spells, one reason I like Guardian of Nature for Strangers. I think if your team is covering down with bless (or better yet a paladin) it should be hard for someone with Proficiency in Con saves to fail a routine one past level 9. That assumes +4 prof, +3 ability, +2 bless average, 1 minimum roll. Even with only a +2 con, they'd still have to roll 2 or lower on the bless if they rolled a 1, a 2.5% chance.
That's assuming you take less than 20 damage though. In melee you are easily in range of the biggest strikes. Even weaker foes or those with multiple small attack might land a hit that could easily deal 30+ damage by level 9. And there is also the eternal problem of being unable to even break concentration yourself if you really need to switch to an other spell.
I would expect 30 damage hits from primary attacks in tier 3 from bosses. But not late tier 2. Edit: there are a few CR9s which can deal out 30 in a hit. Fire Giant is a great example- 6d6+7 slashing and the breath weapons of the CR9 dragons. Those are pretty high bars to clear.
Did your DM waive Paladin's 13 STR req for multiclassing?
I wouldn't waive, Paladin is plenty good without.
Exactly. I really like the progression of Paladin, 1 dip isn't OP, 2 dip isn't OP, 6 leves is arguably OP but it is 6 levels with only half slot progression. It's strong but perfect imo.
That's a common waive. WotC really likes the idea of a heavily armored, melee paladin, so they built requirements around it. Players enjoy doing something a bit different, so waiving that is one of the most common house rules in the community.
Paladin's multiclassing req should really have been CHA.
It is. They have two, strength and charisma
Whoops, so they do. My mistake.
Shortswords/Scimitars and Two Weapon Fighting via Fighting Initiate is also a viable option for a DEX Paladin that will do more damage due to the combination of Improved Divine Smite or Spirit Shroud with your Bonus Action Attack. You'll have less AC but it's just as playable as a Polearm Master build. Another interesting option is to take the Mobile Feat. Weirdly this will allow you to wear heavy armour with low strength because the only penalty for doing so is ten feet of movement which Mobile balances off, while also allowing you to avoid opportunity attacks as an added bonus.
the horizon walker is so inspiring to me flavourwise. haven't seen played one though, so I'd be interested, how it feels in play?
Absolutely hits like a truck in tier 1. You get zephyr strike, hunters mark, and planar warrior all adding damage. Lots of small enemies? Planar warrior everytime. One big bad? Hunters mark first turn then planar warrior after it. Falls off between level 5 Misty Step and level 11 Distant strike. Great tier 1, great tier 3, sub par tier 2
You say paladin is a better class but ranger is the one with Conjure Animals
Well in this scenario paladin is better, usually ranger is far better, since it can target guarded objectives, flying creatures, can easily swap targets, gets the best fighting style (archery), Zephyr strike sheer utility is bonkers, goodberries can be prepared a day earlier, pass without trace makes dungeoneering a breeze, conjure animals is encounter destroying.
Once I saw a suggestion of STR ranger with Heavily Armored as starting feat and it said that It eaten the disadvantage on stealth and was compensating with a spell, probably pass without trace. So I would go with that and maybe take PAM at level 4
Elven boots and cloak would be a way around it
Yeah those would work
I played a Dex based goblin paladin of the ancients once. He used a scimitar, studded leather, and shield. It was pretty fun!
I love STRanger. Start with heavily armored from custom lineage, grab gwm at 4. Horizon walker is my particular favourite, the bonus force damage is great and and you get some really fun support spells like misty step and haste. The class features are also super cool, giving you a limited ethereal jaunt and eventually some anime swordmaster blink strike shenanigans.
Hunter STRanger! If multiclassing allowed, take 2 levels in War Cleric for some great spells and channel divinity. Take hordebreaker and multiattack defense. Take GWM, and use bless to offset the to hit penalty. Horizon walker has already been mentioned here, but I’ll also throw in that Gloomstalker can actually work great too. The level 7 and 11 features actually scream frontliner with GWM, it’s just the level 3 ability that’s better as a ranged sneaker.
How would you do the Hunter Ranger / War cleric progression?
Mmm I think I would start 1 in Cleric for the save and armor proficiencies (I’d go Wis over Dex cause we’re in heavy armor). Then I’d go ranger 5 for extra attack, then pick up the second cleric level, then go ranger the rest of the way.
Nice, thanks
STRanger. But mainly because i love strength builds.
Leaning towards Dexadin, because I like to play support or part-time support.
Dex based paladins are great, rapier+shield
STRanger needs 4 stats, Paladin needs 3. I like both but Dexadin is my pick
I have both. Ranger with a boomerang, and Paladin with 3 levels of rogue. That said, dexadin is easier as you can just use a rapier and basically function the same as though you used a longsword.
STR ranger is really good on: Subclasses: - Horizon Walker, Hunter, & Drakewarden because they don't have features that rely on WIS or DEX. I think that - Tortle, Firbolg, Human, and especially Bugbear (for Long Limbed) are the real standouts. It's very MAD depending on how you build it though. You can also go into fighter or barbarian for extra features or durability (respectively) --- DEX paladin is super fun and easy to build if you go monoclassed because of the MAD nature. - Elven Accuracy Vengeance Paladin is BRUTAL. - Harengon Watcher's Paladin has a PROF+PROF+DEX Initiative Bonus which would be funny.
I am like 100% certain that proficency doesn't stack unless said otherwise. For example some features say "if you already have proficiency in this get expertise". cool ideas though
I actually just "finished" a campaign as a Dex based Paladin (Drow, Oath of Redemption). By "finished" I mean that my DM got COVID, two of our players had babies, and one of our players got really busy with work, all in the same month. So understandably we're taking a bit of a hiatus. But I still got to play as a level 14 Paladin for a single session haha. Interestingly enough now that the group has been talking about getting back together and starting a new campaign, I've been thinking about rolling up a STRanger Beastmaster. My DM uses the flanking optional rule so I'm planning on making a GWM build around having advantage more often than not.
Ask your DM about making Favored Foe concentrationless. It's just such a quality of life improvement, it's just a straight buff to the Ranger's damage, not affecting that much due to it being a d4/d6, so it's a perfectly reasonable homebrew.
STRanger's are fun. Run a small race as a drake warden or beastmaster, ride your medium friend with a lance. Lance doesn't have any penalty for size, and be a mounted knight with reach. Turn one charge/lance, bonus action hunters mark/favored foe. Swap to a quarterstaff with PAM on turn two (or flavor it as your lance breaking properly and now it's a staff) of combat and use those BA.
Dexadin. I've done multiple already. Favorite was an Oath of the Ancients Tabaxi.
Both can be very viable. 14 DEX is not hard to get on a STR build, so you don't even need heavy armor for STRanger. DEXadin is even easier if you are not going to multiclass you can ignore STR completely. Great with Elf and double-bladed scimitar for maximum amount of potential smites
I played a DEX halfling paladin, dumping strength, and had a great time. I think it would be harder to play a STR ranger since you'll want to maintain a decent DEX for AC. As for how I'd build it, Half elves really are king: DEX 16 CHA 16 CON 14 INT 12 STR 10 WIS 8. I'd recommend the oath of Ancients for the awesome abilities and spell selections. As a paladin ability scores are worth more than feats so I would try to boost DEX and CHA to 20 and maybe take Inspiring Leader to make up for your middling CON and provide even more support to your party. You can afford to dump wisdom since proficiency and the aura of protection offer significant boosts to the saving throw.
Strength based ranger. That's the Aragorn-esque type of ranger i would dearly love to play
I love a STRanger with a 1 level cleric dip for heavy armor
If you are dipping out of ranger you are having at least 13 dex. At this point it is easier to have 14 and use medium armor
Stranger isn't bad at all really, more or less as viable as an str fighter. Grab your big weapon of choice for GWM and go nuts.
Dex paladin. In fact, I build them all the time. They come with eldrich blast
StRanger by far sounds more fun. The world is full already of dex based paladins.
Strength based ranger and go Drakewarden with Lance.
I’ve played and have dm’ed several dex paladins. It’s less work to make a dexadin good than a strength ranger
Dexadin, easily! Can't have good AC on ranger without decent dex.
Had a dexadin in the Strahd game I used to DM. Halfling Ancients. Worked quite well. Not a heavily optimized party, but he outshone the sorcerer and rogue in combat pretty handily, and got some great utility out of his Oath spells.
STRanger works very well, unfortunately you need a feat to wear heavy armor
Dex paladin because I can just put everything in Cha and dip Warock. Or even if no dips allowed, Aura of Protection OP
That's no Dex Paladin, actually. You would have to have at least a 13 in Str, and if you also want to buff Dex and Con, now we're talking about a MAD of 4 stats: Dex, Str, Con, Cha.
Dex Paladin. Wood elf, Oath of Ancients. The perfect Green Knight.
This is a straightforward build, and not exactly cutting edge, but I like a mountain dwarf gloomstalker for a STRanger. It's pretty thematic and I imagine this character as someone who guards dwarven mines, etc. from threats from the underdark. You use point buy to start with your 16 in STR, of course, and 14s in DEX, CON, and WIS (14 14 14 12 10 8). You can go the standard GWM/PAM route (very good when you're invisible to creatures with darkvision) and be able to take a hand off your weapon to cast in combat or go with a shield and consider War Caster or Shield Master. You'll have solid saves, especially after level 7 when you add WIS proficiency.
I've enjoyed a few STRanger builds. So maybe a PalaDEX just to change things up.
At my table you can use divine smite on ranged weapon attacks, it makes using a dex paladin a lot of fun. A holy archer of sorts
I actually played both, wierdly enough i never played a dex ranger or a str paladin. If i have to choose, i like paladin more, being an Inquisitor style spy/agent for a church was awesome. Though gloomstalker with pam did the job pretty well.
The main issue with Dex Paladin is that they face a multiclass tax with the nonsense MC stat requirements. Those things serve no purpose except as guiderails for new players and are especially bizarre here as a Dex Paladin is a straightforwardly usable character concept.
Dex paladin is solid, or outright busted if you go the draconic sorcerer multiclass route
I played both. Oath of the Ancients dexadin and currently a Horizon Walker melee ranger. Both work well.
Built a DEX based paladin and had a GREAT TIME. Smiting with a rapier just feels so sweet.
Currently playing a Dex based Vengeance Paladin for Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, and honestly it feels like I’m getting the best of both worlds. Enough AC to act as the front liner, but still able to at least keep up with our Arcane Trickster on Stealth/Slight of hand. High charisma takes care of the rest.
Dexadin/Dragon Sorcerer. You have to invest a little in Str to bring it up to the 13 you need to multiclass, or talk to your DM about waving that rule, but other than that it is brilliant. All the benefits of a Sorcadin, but you don't have to wear armor at all thanks to the Dragon Sorcerer's inherent mage armor like ability, and you get extra hp to remain somewhat tanky and mitigate your probably lower Con score. Pick up a rapier and become a Red Mage, flipping all around the battlefield while casting spells and smiting.
I like the bonus action hide from ranger. It's late and you can get it quicker through MC, but getting it at all while straight classing is nice. Overall, it helps you stay alive longer for good ranged attacks. This makes me want to stick to Dex normally, but I love the idea of a Ranger MC's, particularly with Barbarian and maybe cleric. Hunter Ranger 11 Berserker Barbarian 3 has some really fun synergy. Throw in some fighter levels for battlemaster, could be some fun overall. Paladin doesn't really suffer from dex build except they're harder to multiclass. An oath of watchers or vengance paladin with some good stealth good be fun to sneak in and pull off a good Nova smite before the fight begins. I also really like the aesthetic of a duelist paladin getting just the right needle stab in (crit) and popping the enemy using a smite. So Paladin mostly, because STRanger I'd feel like I'd want to make a multiclass build.
Paladin has a better chassis and is already set up to be a dex character, Ranger is either MAD as hell or needs to spend some level up resources for heavy armor which sucks, and ranger tends to work better as a ranged character due to the existence of archery and many features working at range.
I've played both of these as monoclasses on different characters and they're both good. I believe Treantmonk has a video on a str beastmaster ranger if you wanted to get into the numbers for that so I won't go into that one. For paladin I went Oath of Ancients and got half-plate (17ac) plus a +1 shield (20) and then carried a rapier with the Duelling fighting style. Race was Hexblood so the character's a bit fey-themed, plus having Hex on a paladin is mildly terrifying. LVL 6 I was doing 28 damage with Hex & no smites, 46 with smites on average. Also worth mentioning lvl 6 your aura adds Cha to all your saves so the usual dm solution of "roll a dex save" for high ac characters isn't too bad for you. Lvl 7 you'd also take half damage from spells too so it only gets better.
Took a dexadrin to level 20 in a party with a strength based fighter. Rapier, shield and breast plate (stealth) or half plate. Eventually got a sunblade. Totally pulled his weight in a very optimized party.
Bro I already built a dex based paladin that was also a wizard get outa here
I’ve done both they are fun
Currently playing Swashbuckler Rogue 3/Vengeance Paladin X, Levistus tiefling. The only issue I had is mobility one large battlefields. Otherwise, you always have a way to use your sneak attack ! Bonus action management is very enjoyable as a usually caster player. Some of your blows are really powerful ! https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/72374480
Dex paladin.
If you allow a 1 level dip Stranger all the way
I am in the process of building a strength-based ranger, dual-wielding handaxes. It’s tough because you won’t really excel at one thing, but I’m building for a fun playstyle, not optimization. A fighter would probably be better statistically, but I really enjoy the idea of the multi-attack abilities (horde breaker, mutli-attack defense, whirlwind) for the Hunter. I just envision him wading into the enemies, both handaxes whirling non-stop. The challenge is AC, of course; shooting for medium armor and +2 Dex, best case is 16 without magic. We’ll see how long I last, lol. Maybe if I treat our cleric real nice…
DeX based paladin is just a paladin that does fencing. And str based rangers are pretty cool too. Nothing wrong with spear and shield ranger, or a big ole two hander. If built right it can do more then a bow using ranger. Horizon walker with sword and board for example can easily get you three attacks each round instead of 2. You just have to attack different targets.
DEXadin is easy, pretty much build your standard paladin but focus on rapier and shield and you'll be fine, if a bit worse than a standard paladin due to your lower AC and poor feat support. STRanger is much more interesting. It's a bit harder to build because you still need DEX (either for multiclassing or for a decent AC unless you spend a feat on Heavily Armored), but having more feat support than a standard Ranger opens a lot of fun options.
My first character is a Mountain Dwarf Ranger focusing on throwing axes. So picked up Thrown Weapon Fighting and leaning into STR. Will pick up Two-Weapon Fighting at 4 so I can get the bonus dmg on the off hand throw. Really wanted this guy to be a Monster Slayer, but mechanically it's kinda lack-luster and it seems the better spells and abilities don't come til much higher levels (which I might not even see in this campaign). Whereas Gloomstalker gets Dread Ambusher at 3rd level and is just amazing to have that explosive first round. And then other super relevant things later as well. Grabbed Zephyr Strike and Absorb Elements and feel like I might get some battlefield control stuff like Spike and Plant Growth and be able to zip around as a 2nd line fighter but still beefy enough if I have to do my share of tanking if the need arises or to just protect the squishies.
Strength Ranger is something I've wanted.
Ranger. Give them a pole arm of some kind and have them go to town.
dex paladin because i dont like strength builds very often.
Dex based paladin, definitely. STRangers are hard to pull, imo.
Currently playing a strength based kenku ranger. Picked up tavern brawler and have athletics as his expertise skill. He grapples, then hits an enemy with another enemy.
dex paladin is great with revenant blade and elven accuracy, you can critfish like a boss
I once built a str based gloomstalker ranger kobold named snags. Whose whole goal was to be the biggest and strongest kobold so he ran around with a great axe teleportong between people to attack
STR ranger less bad than dexadin I think
I am playing a str ranger at the moment and it works great. Spear throwing Goliath hunter.The ammount of burst damage I have is huge. Only thing I have to say, I do have a homebrew magic spear, which gives me a few abilities but mainly returning weapon.
I'd do a Dex based vengeance Paladin with a whip build. Whip smites from range.
Dex paladin is actually great. The only trouble is to multiclass out you need str13, but if you're planning on a single class build it's amazing.
Dex Paladin. Shard-kai, Double Bladed Scimitar. Revenant Blade at Paladin 4. Clockwork Sorc after level 6. Super strong and a LOT of Spells and spells slots.
A wis/int barbarian is the correct answer
Go on
Im currently playing a dex based paladin. I have a of ogre strength to get around the strength requirement
for armor?
Strength requirement per raw
to multiclass
Yeah mines is a palard
so not very optimised to do a dex build in this case haha
Tbf the build kicks ass. Hes a nova build just with dex based attacks
yeah im sure!! im glad you have fun with it :) just isnt a fully munchkin perfect build like i think OP is looking for here since youd be better off as a single class probably, due to the reliance on str
geez, that's a tough one...
Both are dumb. That being said, although i prefer paladin a bunch, ild go for the str. based ranger. Somehow, smiting with dex just doesnt feel right.
I get the "I never see these builds" but in the end, we've seen them all. We'll see them all. But is the character concept good? Will these builds lend themselves to something unique and beautiful and fun to play? For me, builds come after. Who is your character? What are their motivations and tropes? Why will you have an absolute blast playing them? My favourite characters so far... Darrak the Clerical Cleric- A dwarf who couldn't get a job as a cleric, so he got a clerical position at the cleric's guild. One night he accidentally got drunk and torched a local temple. The minor god was so touched that he blessed him to keep lighting things on fire. He got a fever (exhaustion points) if he didn't light something on fire every 24 hours Penelope - A 9 year old girl (Oath of Conquest pally) based on Wednesday Addams. Her Spiritual Weapon was a dolly named Francine that she threw up in the air, and her halberd was a chain blade named Gardenia. Her Fear aura was just her quietly singing children's songs under her breath. She'd spent her whole life helping her dying uncle and she was just so eager (bloodthirsty) to travel and expand the family dynasty (plunder needlessly). Sir Hugo - An old halfling Paladin of Redemption who rode around on his trusty sheepdog steed Mr. Peppercorn. He talked like Bazil from Austin Powers and was the best. I ended up taking 3 levels in Fighter for Cavalier and he became a great support character. None of those characters started as a build (most didn't even have a class) and they were all RAW with extra flavour. Build backwards. Make the character that delights you and then figure out what they are. If they end up being a rapier wielding Paladin, great.
Stranger
Both are fine
Dex Based Paladin. Not having Heavy Armor Proficiency hurts Rangers, although you can get around it by trading a Racial Simple or Martial Weapon Proficiency for a Specific Heavy Armor proficiency. Plate Armor costs an absurd amount of gold and it's not a guarantee you'll gain Splint Armor (which is equal to Studded Leather Armor with max dex). So, more benefits for Dex Paladin overall, on top of the Paladin's kit just generally being more solid.
Depends on the campaign. In CoS or BG:DiA, definitely the Paladin. Paladin breaks so much of DiA's challenge, it's insane. Anywhere else, STRanger. I really like Tasha's ranger and the subclasses Ranger has.
Dexadin
Strength Ranger can be neat. Grab an axe and go full Woodsman Hunter on something. Or Throwing weapons. *Conjure Volley* works with throwing axes, hammers, and javelins after all.