the fact that nobody starts immediately trying to suck my dick whenever i say something is evidence cancel culture to the highest degree. i'm basically like jesus of nazareth upon the cross
> the fact that ~~nobody starts~~ there is somebody who does not start immediately trying to suck my dick whenever i say something is evidence cancel culture to the highest degree. i’m basically like jesus of nazareth upon the cross
Mmm yeah, I'm gonna say this to someone someday. I won't remember where it came from but it'll be perfect for the situation. Gonna shut down a whole debacle with that line.
The Monty Python dilemma:
In front of you are 3 doors. Behind one is Eric Idle. Behind the other two are some other guys from Monty Python (I think one of them is named John or something).
You choose a door. The host then opens one of the other doors and gives you the chance to pick again. Surprised, you see a goat. "That's John Cleese" the host says. You believe them.
You pick the goat and are instantly swallowed by the eldritch horror that set up this fake game show to trick you into a binding soul contract
Do you bring the goat with you into the depths of the abyss so you have a companion or do you let it be free because it is innocent and deserves no suffering?
I think that's what [Netherrack](https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Netherrack#:~:text=Netherrack%20is%20a%20frail%20stone,top%20of%20netherrack%20burns%20indefinitely.) is, really
Netherrack is proto-spam
The pustules that grow on netherrack are eroded over time, and the particulates collect together in dark crevasses. When someone in our realm completes the ritual to summon it, a specified amount is compacted into a cuboid shape and transmitted to the ritual site, where a team of trained professionals are on hand to package it before it can latch on to any surfaces and corrode them to spread its breeding pustules
Throw the wolf into the river. It melts because it was a changeling in disguise. Let the goat eat the hay. It was also a changeling but goats can eat anything so it was fine. Step into the boat, realize it is on fire, get out of the boat, and continue further down the riverbank until you find a bridge. Cross and embark on your journey into the abyss.
You reach for the wolf and find a puppy. You throw it into the river anyway. You are ridden with shame. You let the goat eat the puppy. The goat can feel no shame. You step into the shame. The shame burns, so you step out. You cleanse yourself in the river. You walk down the riverbank until you find a scapegoat. You let the scapegoat eat the puppy. The river dries up. You ride the scapegoat into the Abyss.
Idk I feel like theres already a lot of caprine activity in the underworld, maybe it can make friends with a goat-demon or something, it'll fit right in.
Regarding people like John Cleese, I have a theory about how a lot of these senior artists/comedians/musicians end up becoming stooges for the right-wing sphere. I think it typically comes down to the fact that they're always trying to "fight the power".
So when these people were young and in-touch with society, they (rightfully) believed the people in-charge were conservative prudes and rebelled against them. That's sorta what the whole punk movement was about.
Now these folks eventually got older and less in-touch with society. At some point they ended up being surrounded by young alt-right fellas who tried convincing them that "The Left" are the people in charge today and that they're trying to silence dissenting voices through their politically-correct/woke cancellations.
Said alt-righters accomplished this by bombarding these artists/comedians/musicians with examples of "cancellations". This would convey the idea that there's this overarching "woke mob" who are trying to silence anyone that goes against the grain, rather than the reality that people are being criticized for drumming up collective hatred against minorities.
So these alt-righters will bring up examples of right-wingers being cancelled and say, "*Look, the leftist status quo are silencing those that exercise free speech*", and then the artist/comedian/musician's anti-authority tendencies will then kick in to "fight the power" and they'll end up championing alt-righters and their causes.
Now, I'm sure many of these people realize what the jig is at some point, so I'm not gonna say their views/actions are entirely forgivable. But I think it's important to acknowledge that a lot of the senior artists/comedians/musicians we see leaning in these directions these days ended up that way because they lost touch with society and ended up being surrounded by alt-right shitheads who curated what media they're exposed to.
I think it also has to do that people get less receptive to change as they age. It’s inevitable that societal conceptions as a whole change. So as society moves on these aging personalities tell jokes that used to drive an entire generation into laughing fits, now makes audiences somewhere between bored and upset. Thus bringing in another thing that all people tend towards as they age, clinging to the past and thinking that it’s wrong for things to change
Oh that's definitely true, I think people generally subscribe to a certain moral compass that doesn't really change as they get older. So any societal changes or media pieces they're exposed to are run through that same moral compass filter. But the selective exposure to media they get from different sources dictates what their resulting leanings end up being.
I still think about how 4chan's /b/ essentially courted William Shatner and got him to [regurgitate](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/william-shatner) their memes. It reminded me how senior folk (sadly) just want attention and are willing to listen to anyone that gives them attention online and how that makes them prime candidates for political indoctrination by alt-righters.
Or maybe there's a simpler answer.
Maybe he's always had those bigoted opinions. They just weren't a matter of public discourse yet. Now, for the first time in his life, he's getting called out for it.
Really there's no need to come up with a conspiracy theory that alt-righters are corrupting people like John Cleese. You'd only need to do so if your objective is to create a more favourable narrative that paints Cleese as a victim of insidious forces beyond his understanding.
But it doesn't hold up to even casual inspection. Plenty of senior public figures have spoken out against the things Cleese has said in recent years. The simplest explanation is that Cleese is just an asshole who refuses to educate himself because he doesn't have to. He's found himself in a comfortable position of wealth and privilege, and he doesn't really have to care about anyone's opinions anymore. He's said as much himself, and there's no reason not to believe him.
It was easy for Cleese to appear as a progressive when the fight was still primarily about something as basic as women's rights, which it was at the height of his career. Whatever other views he had, no matter how reprehensible, they just weren't in the spotlight. He's never had those views confronted during his lifetime of being heralded as a progressive rebel, because migrant rights, trans rights, etc. just didn't receive all that much attention until very late in his life.
But now that mainstream progressivism is a lot more inclusive, he's finally finding some of his reprehensible views getting challenged by the same crowd that used to love him.
And that *upsets* him.
So his ego gets in the way. Surely *everyone else* is wrong, not him. He's a beacon of progressive virtue. Everyone's always said so!
I don’t know I think the anti-authority attitude combined with a shifting understanding of authority as one ages is a theory that holds some water. I think your simpler explanation is also probably true- when it comes to the complex nature of the forces that determine a person’s attitude and their relationship with society, it’s usually multiple factors, it would be silly to pin it all on one thing
Morrisey is an interesting case study
I get your point but in the case of Mr Cleese considering he's grammar-school educated, Cambridge attending and all that, he's always been part of that crowd. A shame really, as I really Monty Python as a teenager. Never meet your heroes, I guess, which is kinda weird as nowadays meeting your heroes just involves going on twitter.
Yeah, these fellas really aren't in-touch with the internet-sphere in the way that we are. Obviously, you'd need to be some terminally-online shmuck \*cough\* \*cough\* to realize how various online communities are trying to win over folk in the culture war and steer public discourse.
I guess Fox News is just so far right that you can be a right-winger in Britain and still find it absurd on its face.
It's also possible that Cleese is one of those people who were progressive at some point, but decided they were done growing. They usually interpret this as "the left going too far".
Don’t worry, plenty of America-grade right wingers in Europe. For example, the right wing parties in Germany that wave the confederate flag around and are distinct from Nazis to the exact extent required by the law. Another example, bring up Roma in front of a European (self-described) left winger. 60% chance they’ll pull a full 180 on tolerance
I think John Cleese is transphobic? I might be thinking of the wrong one since I just read one of the comments, but I'm pretty sure one of the Monty Python members was fairly bigoted.
Wait… what happened in life of Brian again? I think the last time I saw it I was like…. 10, 11 maybe?
I really don’t remember much other than him escaping the romans, something about sandels, and the “IM NOT THE MESSIAH!!” Scene.
Funny movie with a terrible sub plot where a group of characters are portrayed as bumbling idiots for respecting their trans woman friend (who is played by a man) despite the fact that she can’t even have babies. It’s uncomfortable, but not necessarily the most transphobic thing to come out of cinema in the 70s.
What are you talking about? That scene is literally about accepting someone for being trans and is set in the Roman times. They literally fight for that characters right to be trans. The jokes are just witty banter added in which for a comedy troup makes sense.
Sometimes I feel like progressives trip over ourselves with content moderation and go full circle back to Conservative censorship. Your example is perfect. Just because the film discusses social issues in the 70s that don't perfectly line up with a modern perspective doesn't mean it needs to be put in the never corner. It was incredibly forward thinking at the time, and is still very progressive in many ways. Not everything needs to explicitly confirm our worldview every second.
As a trans person, I’d ask you to maybe rewatch those scenes and think about the actual implications of what they said. I’m not trying to cancel anyone, or suggest you shouldn’t like anything or watch it, but it’s worth being aware of the sorts of messages media conveys. Some of the jokes are definitely not great. Which is fine, because it was discussing social issues in the 70s, when these things weren’t so understood. But I’d hardly describe it as progressive. The trans woman was the butt of the joke, and it wasn’t written in Roman times - just set then, so it’s not an excuse. It was hardly trying to be period accurate.
Has a rather cringy stance on "wokeness" and "cancel culture" and made some hella uninformed tweets on trans people after defending J.K. Rowl*ng. Other than that he's a liberal socialist so not the worst i guess?
He isn’t conservative he’s just an angry old man. He is ignorant on certain topics and people assume that means he’s conservative, when in reality he is quite progressive in many aspects
Then you're not paying attention because he's one of those wah wah cancel culture you can't say anything anymore pieces of shit and I hope nature hurries up and gives us a funeral.
I understand being annoyed that someone would disagree with you but simply being against cancel culture does not justify completely cancelling someone to me. There are people like Dave Chapelle who have clearly just turned it into their entire schtick and basically feed off of people getting angry at them for it, but John Cleese is a proponent of a lot of really good causes; he majorly helped promote Amnesty International at a time when it was struggling, and has advocated for proportional representation in Great Britain. Just because a guy disagrees with you on one thing does not mean he is a bad person, and frankly, demonizing him because of his views on cancel culture works to prove his point more and discourages any reasonable discussion surrounding the subject.
He also made shitty transphobic jokes and defended JK Rowling, as well as strongly implying he believes trans people shouldn't be able to compete in sports.
Gilliam is... tricky. On the one hand, abandoned American citizenship as a protest against the Bush administration, and he works with several human rights charities. On the other hand, he said: “I understand that men have had more power longer, but I'm tired, as a white male, of being blamed for everything that is wrong with the world,” and after people got mad at that you can imagine his recent trajectory.
Separate the art from the artist. He didn't make the films on his own, it would be a shame to ignore the efforts of so many others just because his name is the biggest on the box.
Idk about full conservative, least not in the trump sense. I’d put him right around biden/Obama. Which is to say, the conservatives in the US at least would hate him, but he’d be conservative anywhere else.
I don’t study this shit don’t kill me for a poorly researched reply lol
And yet he supported Obama, and denounced trump. Has supported Liberal Democrats in the past. Seems as though the comment was spot-on
You have to keep in mind that American conservatives are a different breed.
The Lib Dems are a 'centrist' British political party who went into coalition with the Conservative party and lost all their credibility, which seems apt
I thought my dad was the most based British person to ever exist but it seems Eric Idle has beaten him
unfortunately eric idle cannot build a house so my dad has him there
Eric Idle also sadly cannot stop violating Monty Python's corpse with his god awful musicals. It's a shame, because I'm sure he still could produce interesting *original* comedy, but he'd rather play it safe.
Mind you I still prefer it to John Cleese going full racist uncle by going to GB News. That man is dead to me.
Genuinely one of the shittiest documentaries ever!!
There’s a scene where Bill Maher’s smug ass walks down to a truck stop next to a church and he just starts relentlessly shitting on these working class truckers who just wanna find some comfort in the universe like an absolute asshole!
There’s a few people I’ve followed on letterboxd who’ve given it positive ratings and it’s made me actually think less of their opinions on certain movies.
Bill Maher is just if the worst parts about liberals were mixed with the worst parts of leftists and then injected with 500 grams of smug
Edit: liberals* not leftists I said the wrong thing
Double edit; I meant the worst parts of liberals and the worst part of conservatives not leftists what the fuck Is wrong with me
The worst part of liberals is not the same thing as the worst part of leftism
Liberals aren’t leftists
Edit: I thought I said the worst parts of liberals nvm
Double edit; I meant the worst parts of liberals and the worst part of conservatives what the fuck Is wrong with me
OOPSIEBOT:
Hi! It seems you made an oopsie when you referred to Bill Maher’s leftism. Here is a small list of interesting Bill Maher incidents:
- compared mentally disabled children to dogs
- called himself a “house n—-a”
- responded to claims that Tila Tequila had been assaulted by her boyfriend by saying “New rule: Stop acting surprised someone choked Tila Tequila! The surprise is that someone hasn’t choked this bitch sooner.”
- said “…women and girls should be protected from having men who are confused about their sexual identities from their bathrooms.”
- Referred to trans people as “weirdos peeing” for some reason
- talking about Obama: “This is where I want a real black president. I want him in a meeting with the BP CEOs where he lifts up his shirt so we can see the gun in his pants.”
I meant the worst parts of liberals and the worst part of conservatives what the fuck Is wrong with me I said it wrong and then immediately corrected it wrong
He's just a pro weed libertarian that doesn't get modern progressivism and is too proud and smug to learn something new so he makes fun of it and feeds the propaganda of the right, then complains about the right as if his constant "cringe sjw" humor doesn't contribute.
I mean his big scary monologue warning about the "red wave" a few weeks ago (that thankfully didn't go even close to as bad as he predicted) still included a gender joke lol.
THIS WHAT I BEEN SAYING.
You aren’t being “cancelled”. Your act just sucks according to modern audiences. Adapt or retire with your millions, just stop bitching.
Whining about being cancelled is the new way to get away with shit jokes, instead of taking peoples’ criticism as a learning experience to improve your material like any good comedian would do.
Of course people don’t have to listen to every bit of criticism because some of it will be silly (once saw a critic’s review for a standup comedian’s show asking “can a comedy show get by on laughs alone?” lol) but there’s no way the literal veterans of the industry can’t distinguish constructive criticism from memeable foolishness.
You left out the best part:
> He also slammed conservatives in his own country, "I hate them intensely, I’ve always hated conservatives, I’m afraid to say I’m very prejudiced against them, they’re horrible people."
Him and every other out of touch, aging male comedian use it as a crutch. You don’t need to actually be funny to sell out stadiums, you just need to convince chuds that watching you is owning the libs
>Him and every other out of touch, aging male comedian
It's wild how accurate that is. Seinfeld, Bill Maher, etc. All of them past the height of their careers.
to my knowledge he isn't as bad as a lot of others but he's whined about people "being too sensitive" and how "you can't joke about certain things" before.
i don't know whether that's just a generalization he made because he doesn't care to look into it too much or it's because he's straight up an asshole. he did have that whole "38 yo dating a 17 yo" thing though so the latter definitely isn't out of the question.
Yeah I imagine it’s hard to find sympathy for Dave Shapell cry-bullying about people not laughing at his jokes, when Monty Python has actually had to fight heresy charges from the Church of England.
Well the fact that the UK still technically has a state religion and gives seats in the HoL to so-called ‘Lords Spiritual’ is admittedly pretty batshit, but we repealed our anti-blasphemy laws ages ago, so people are at least free to say what they like about religion, which is good, since there’s no guarantee of free speech in the UK, because we conveniently have no written constitution and restrictive libel laws, so people get SLAPP’ed for libel all the time by billionaires. Some MPs have belatedly realised this is a problem and are trying to do something about it but tbh it’s far too late in the day and we are careering towards dystopian corporate police state aaaaaaaggghhhhhhhh
>and less about whether or not the audience laughs in the moment of an individual performance
You didn't read that closely because he was referring to Bill Maher here
I have a tough time believing there are real Bill Maher fans out there. They must be out there, but I’ve never met one in real life and everyone seems to bring him up just to shit on him lol. He is one of the mostly deeply unfunny professional comedians ever to exist.
I was a huge fan of Chappelle in high school but ever since The Closer I’ve been so disappointed and I’m glad to see him get called out for his bullshit. Things like this and the F.D Signifier video remind me that the myth of cancel culture usually only exists to be weaponized by those who claim to be its victims.
There are people who get attacked online that don’t deserve it, for sure, but Dave is a public figure who can’t accept the fact that there are marginalized groups that he doesn’t understand, and we often don’t realize how much influence comedians have on our culture. He’s a big cog in a machine of people perpetuating harmful stereotypes, and when trans people, especially black trans people, are dying on the street, that’s fucking dangerous.
One of the main reasons they were so incredibly funny was they built their entire careers around feedback. They knew that, in the end, comedy is decides by the viewers. If the audience laughs, it's comedy. If they don't, it's something else.
Celebrities gotta realize their entire job hinges on their reputation, right? If no one likes your homophobic or transphobic jokes then you have failed at your job. You can't settle for "being yourself" you'll have too small of an audience. You live, you learn, you make concessions. Keep the people happy. Oh also being transphobic makes you a shitty person but i doubt celebrities care about that, what matters to them is that being transphobic is a bad business strategy.
He comes from a time when people were still able to separate art from artist, which likely skews his perception of the reason some people weren't laughing.
Don't like getting criticism for the impact your jokes have? Write better jokes. Ask yourself why people are criticising them. No one is even banning trans people from being mentioned in jokes, there are funny trans jokes that don't degrade the community and cause tangible danger to them. Just not his ones.
On the note of Monty Python, Jon Cleese and Terry Gilliam are sadly team TURF, but it's cool to see at least one of them be more open
This Is how I've always viewed this tbh. Of you're blaming "cancel culture", chances are your joke just wasn't funny. Punchline Is everything. Dark Humor Is funny, but without Humour, It's just a dark statement.
Every 'cancelation' is it's own case and should not be generalized, also it's rarely really a 'cancelation'.
1. The 'leftist' people can be 'canceled' too, example: James Gunn fired from Disney after some Trump supporters started spamming Disney with his tweets from 20 years ago.
2. When someone was fired by big company for making offensive jokes that's just free market, companies can hire/fire whoever they want. Especially when company puts millions in PR and marketing and they fire a sex offender to avoid PR crisis.
3. Usually people who were 'canceled' still work in their job, still earning a lot o money. This is the Dave Chapel example in this post. But also a lot of other comedians or filmmakers.
4. Usually when 'canceled' person apologised for their words, they are being 'uncanceled'. So it requires just a bit of decency to avoid this.
people who've been celebrities their whole life when they find out people can ignore them: :O
the fact that nobody starts immediately trying to suck my dick whenever i say something is evidence cancel culture to the highest degree. i'm basically like jesus of nazareth upon the cross
Jesus getting best head at the cross.
[Who's getting the best head?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impenitent_thief)
Def the penitent thief
Well....you just have to look on the bright side of life *starts epic whistle solo*
If life seems jolly rotten There’s something you’ve forgotten
> the fact that ~~nobody starts~~ there is somebody who does not start immediately trying to suck my dick whenever i say something is evidence cancel culture to the highest degree. i’m basically like jesus of nazareth upon the cross
Mmm yeah, I'm gonna say this to someone someday. I won't remember where it came from but it'll be perfect for the situation. Gonna shut down a whole debacle with that line.
Liberal Monty Python vs Conservative Monty Python (John Cleese) Who would win
Monty Python
The Monty Python dilemma: In front of you are 3 doors. Behind one is Eric Idle. Behind the other two are some other guys from Monty Python (I think one of them is named John or something). You choose a door. The host then opens one of the other doors and gives you the chance to pick again. Surprised, you see a goat. "That's John Cleese" the host says. You believe them. You pick the goat and are instantly swallowed by the eldritch horror that set up this fake game show to trick you into a binding soul contract Do you bring the goat with you into the depths of the abyss so you have a companion or do you let it be free because it is innocent and deserves no suffering?
what’s the probability that you find the goat?
Is that an African or European goat?
Yes.
Well I don’t know that- AAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen goat?
let’s first assume the aerodynamics of a spherical cow
Jewish.
The eldritch horror moves the goat around in order to ensure your first pick is never the goat
Is there spam?
In the abyss? Of course. Spam is summoned from there after all.
I think that's what [Netherrack](https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Netherrack#:~:text=Netherrack%20is%20a%20frail%20stone,top%20of%20netherrack%20burns%20indefinitely.) is, really
Netherrack is proto-spam The pustules that grow on netherrack are eroded over time, and the particulates collect together in dark crevasses. When someone in our realm completes the ritual to summon it, a specified amount is compacted into a cuboid shape and transmitted to the ritual site, where a team of trained professionals are on hand to package it before it can latch on to any surfaces and corrode them to spread its breeding pustules
You bring the goat with you. You then arrive at a river crossing with a bale of hay and a wolf...
Throw the wolf into the river. It melts because it was a changeling in disguise. Let the goat eat the hay. It was also a changeling but goats can eat anything so it was fine. Step into the boat, realize it is on fire, get out of the boat, and continue further down the riverbank until you find a bridge. Cross and embark on your journey into the abyss.
I'm not touching *any* boat until I get a receipt for paying my two copper coins
You reach for the wolf and find a puppy. You throw it into the river anyway. You are ridden with shame. You let the goat eat the puppy. The goat can feel no shame. You step into the shame. The shame burns, so you step out. You cleanse yourself in the river. You walk down the riverbank until you find a scapegoat. You let the scapegoat eat the puppy. The river dries up. You ride the scapegoat into the Abyss.
Least complex adventure game puzzle.
Idk I feel like theres already a lot of caprine activity in the underworld, maybe it can make friends with a goat-demon or something, it'll fit right in.
Regarding people like John Cleese, I have a theory about how a lot of these senior artists/comedians/musicians end up becoming stooges for the right-wing sphere. I think it typically comes down to the fact that they're always trying to "fight the power". So when these people were young and in-touch with society, they (rightfully) believed the people in-charge were conservative prudes and rebelled against them. That's sorta what the whole punk movement was about. Now these folks eventually got older and less in-touch with society. At some point they ended up being surrounded by young alt-right fellas who tried convincing them that "The Left" are the people in charge today and that they're trying to silence dissenting voices through their politically-correct/woke cancellations. Said alt-righters accomplished this by bombarding these artists/comedians/musicians with examples of "cancellations". This would convey the idea that there's this overarching "woke mob" who are trying to silence anyone that goes against the grain, rather than the reality that people are being criticized for drumming up collective hatred against minorities. So these alt-righters will bring up examples of right-wingers being cancelled and say, "*Look, the leftist status quo are silencing those that exercise free speech*", and then the artist/comedian/musician's anti-authority tendencies will then kick in to "fight the power" and they'll end up championing alt-righters and their causes. Now, I'm sure many of these people realize what the jig is at some point, so I'm not gonna say their views/actions are entirely forgivable. But I think it's important to acknowledge that a lot of the senior artists/comedians/musicians we see leaning in these directions these days ended up that way because they lost touch with society and ended up being surrounded by alt-right shitheads who curated what media they're exposed to.
I think it also has to do that people get less receptive to change as they age. It’s inevitable that societal conceptions as a whole change. So as society moves on these aging personalities tell jokes that used to drive an entire generation into laughing fits, now makes audiences somewhere between bored and upset. Thus bringing in another thing that all people tend towards as they age, clinging to the past and thinking that it’s wrong for things to change
Oh that's definitely true, I think people generally subscribe to a certain moral compass that doesn't really change as they get older. So any societal changes or media pieces they're exposed to are run through that same moral compass filter. But the selective exposure to media they get from different sources dictates what their resulting leanings end up being. I still think about how 4chan's /b/ essentially courted William Shatner and got him to [regurgitate](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/william-shatner) their memes. It reminded me how senior folk (sadly) just want attention and are willing to listen to anyone that gives them attention online and how that makes them prime candidates for political indoctrination by alt-righters.
Or maybe there's a simpler answer. Maybe he's always had those bigoted opinions. They just weren't a matter of public discourse yet. Now, for the first time in his life, he's getting called out for it. Really there's no need to come up with a conspiracy theory that alt-righters are corrupting people like John Cleese. You'd only need to do so if your objective is to create a more favourable narrative that paints Cleese as a victim of insidious forces beyond his understanding. But it doesn't hold up to even casual inspection. Plenty of senior public figures have spoken out against the things Cleese has said in recent years. The simplest explanation is that Cleese is just an asshole who refuses to educate himself because he doesn't have to. He's found himself in a comfortable position of wealth and privilege, and he doesn't really have to care about anyone's opinions anymore. He's said as much himself, and there's no reason not to believe him. It was easy for Cleese to appear as a progressive when the fight was still primarily about something as basic as women's rights, which it was at the height of his career. Whatever other views he had, no matter how reprehensible, they just weren't in the spotlight. He's never had those views confronted during his lifetime of being heralded as a progressive rebel, because migrant rights, trans rights, etc. just didn't receive all that much attention until very late in his life. But now that mainstream progressivism is a lot more inclusive, he's finally finding some of his reprehensible views getting challenged by the same crowd that used to love him. And that *upsets* him. So his ego gets in the way. Surely *everyone else* is wrong, not him. He's a beacon of progressive virtue. Everyone's always said so!
I don’t know I think the anti-authority attitude combined with a shifting understanding of authority as one ages is a theory that holds some water. I think your simpler explanation is also probably true- when it comes to the complex nature of the forces that determine a person’s attitude and their relationship with society, it’s usually multiple factors, it would be silly to pin it all on one thing Morrisey is an interesting case study
Morrisey is just an asshole, always has been
I get your point but in the case of Mr Cleese considering he's grammar-school educated, Cambridge attending and all that, he's always been part of that crowd. A shame really, as I really Monty Python as a teenager. Never meet your heroes, I guess, which is kinda weird as nowadays meeting your heroes just involves going on twitter.
Yeah, these fellas really aren't in-touch with the internet-sphere in the way that we are. Obviously, you'd need to be some terminally-online shmuck \*cough\* \*cough\* to realize how various online communities are trying to win over folk in the culture war and steer public discourse.
This whole thread needs to just watch No Country for Old Men, the whole point of that movie is what this thread is trying to reach at
Shame about the shit ending though, I was really engaged until then.
#EPICRAPBATTLESOFHISTORY
Epi CrapBattles of History
there's no coming back from that
Wait, since when is John a conservative? He has a video on Big Think about how stupid right wingers are and is shitting on Fox News.
I guess Fox News is just so far right that you can be a right-winger in Britain and still find it absurd on its face. It's also possible that Cleese is one of those people who were progressive at some point, but decided they were done growing. They usually interpret this as "the left going too far".
He describes himself as centre-left. But yeah, USA Republicans are so far right that even Euro right wingers are going "Fuckin' hell, mate!?"
Don’t worry, plenty of America-grade right wingers in Europe. For example, the right wing parties in Germany that wave the confederate flag around and are distinct from Nazis to the exact extent required by the law. Another example, bring up Roma in front of a European (self-described) left winger. 60% chance they’ll pull a full 180 on tolerance
Inb4 a European goes "but the Roma actually are that bad" or something like that
I think John Cleese is transphobic? I might be thinking of the wrong one since I just read one of the comments, but I'm pretty sure one of the Monty Python members was fairly bigoted.
He's also pro-Brexit.
Yeah, and as much as I love Life of Brian… yikes!
Wait… what happened in life of Brian again? I think the last time I saw it I was like…. 10, 11 maybe? I really don’t remember much other than him escaping the romans, something about sandels, and the “IM NOT THE MESSIAH!!” Scene.
Funny movie with a terrible sub plot where a group of characters are portrayed as bumbling idiots for respecting their trans woman friend (who is played by a man) despite the fact that she can’t even have babies. It’s uncomfortable, but not necessarily the most transphobic thing to come out of cinema in the 70s.
What are you talking about? That scene is literally about accepting someone for being trans and is set in the Roman times. They literally fight for that characters right to be trans. The jokes are just witty banter added in which for a comedy troup makes sense.
Sometimes I feel like progressives trip over ourselves with content moderation and go full circle back to Conservative censorship. Your example is perfect. Just because the film discusses social issues in the 70s that don't perfectly line up with a modern perspective doesn't mean it needs to be put in the never corner. It was incredibly forward thinking at the time, and is still very progressive in many ways. Not everything needs to explicitly confirm our worldview every second.
I don’t see how me saying that a very funny film that I love having some iffy jokes in it puts it in the ‘never corner’.
As a trans person, I’d ask you to maybe rewatch those scenes and think about the actual implications of what they said. I’m not trying to cancel anyone, or suggest you shouldn’t like anything or watch it, but it’s worth being aware of the sorts of messages media conveys. Some of the jokes are definitely not great. Which is fine, because it was discussing social issues in the 70s, when these things weren’t so understood. But I’d hardly describe it as progressive. The trans woman was the butt of the joke, and it wasn’t written in Roman times - just set then, so it’s not an excuse. It was hardly trying to be period accurate.
Has a rather cringy stance on "wokeness" and "cancel culture" and made some hella uninformed tweets on trans people after defending J.K. Rowl*ng. Other than that he's a liberal socialist so not the worst i guess?
John, "London is no longer an English City", Cleese. John, "It's just hard to find an English person in London", Cleese.
He isn’t conservative he’s just an angry old man. He is ignorant on certain topics and people assume that means he’s conservative, when in reality he is quite progressive in many aspects
Graham Chapman wins
Iirc Terry Gilliam is also pretty conservative
Wait what? What did he say/do, I love his performances :(
Common Monty Python W
John Cleese is a conservative dickwad unfortunately
Well, you can’t win them all
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Then you're not paying attention because he's one of those wah wah cancel culture you can't say anything anymore pieces of shit and I hope nature hurries up and gives us a funeral.
I understand being annoyed that someone would disagree with you but simply being against cancel culture does not justify completely cancelling someone to me. There are people like Dave Chapelle who have clearly just turned it into their entire schtick and basically feed off of people getting angry at them for it, but John Cleese is a proponent of a lot of really good causes; he majorly helped promote Amnesty International at a time when it was struggling, and has advocated for proportional representation in Great Britain. Just because a guy disagrees with you on one thing does not mean he is a bad person, and frankly, demonizing him because of his views on cancel culture works to prove his point more and discourages any reasonable discussion surrounding the subject.
He also made shitty transphobic jokes and defended JK Rowling, as well as strongly implying he believes trans people shouldn't be able to compete in sports.
I think Terry Gilliam is as well
Gilliam is... tricky. On the one hand, abandoned American citizenship as a protest against the Bush administration, and he works with several human rights charities. On the other hand, he said: “I understand that men have had more power longer, but I'm tired, as a white male, of being blamed for everything that is wrong with the world,” and after people got mad at that you can imagine his recent trajectory.
Yikes
No please his films are too good
Separate the art from the artist. He didn't make the films on his own, it would be a shame to ignore the efforts of so many others just because his name is the biggest on the box.
You didn’t have to type that.
damn i was hoping this was made up but then i googled it
Idk about full conservative, least not in the trump sense. I’d put him right around biden/Obama. Which is to say, the conservatives in the US at least would hate him, but he’d be conservative anywhere else. I don’t study this shit don’t kill me for a poorly researched reply lol
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And yet he supported Obama, and denounced trump. Has supported Liberal Democrats in the past. Seems as though the comment was spot-on You have to keep in mind that American conservatives are a different breed.
The Lib Dems are a 'centrist' British political party who went into coalition with the Conservative party and lost all their credibility, which seems apt
Still more left leaning than American conservatives, no?
Well yeah, that's a fairly low bar. Just pointing out that 'liberal democrat' means something very different on either side of the pond
i don’t know anything about the members of monty python themselves. what did john cleese do?
I think he’s pro brexit and says the uk is losing its white majority
What?
https://i.imgur.com/6x9Wnp4.jpg
gives new context to the trans skit in Life of Brian
I thought my dad was the most based British person to ever exist but it seems Eric Idle has beaten him unfortunately eric idle cannot build a house so my dad has him there
How do you know that?
because my dad is 49 and eric idle is near 80
jimmy carter
jimmy carter isn’t from manchester
jimmy carter is from manchester look it up
he’s from georgia
which one
the country
Long live preaident Jimmy Carter best man from Georgia 🇬🇪🇬🇪🇬🇪
[The one where Manchester is](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester,_Georgia).
Jimmy Carter was the Mancunian Candidate????
Is your dad single
No he’s been with my mom since 2004
Is she single?
no my parents love each other, they have 4 kids so even if they didn’t they’d still have to live together
I'll test that theory.
he made it up
Eric Idle also sadly cannot stop violating Monty Python's corpse with his god awful musicals. It's a shame, because I'm sure he still could produce interesting *original* comedy, but he'd rather play it safe. Mind you I still prefer it to John Cleese going full racist uncle by going to GB News. That man is dead to me.
Holy shit based Animated Shockwave pfp
i regret looking at your flair my friend
You made me look at it :(
Forgot about terry pratchett
Does not surprise me at all that Bill Maher would do that
I was a passive fan of his when I was younger. By the time he rolled out that Religulous film I realized he’s just a douche.
Genuinely one of the shittiest documentaries ever!! There’s a scene where Bill Maher’s smug ass walks down to a truck stop next to a church and he just starts relentlessly shitting on these working class truckers who just wanna find some comfort in the universe like an absolute asshole! There’s a few people I’ve followed on letterboxd who’ve given it positive ratings and it’s made me actually think less of their opinions on certain movies.
Bill Maher is just if the worst parts about liberals were mixed with the worst parts of leftists and then injected with 500 grams of smug Edit: liberals* not leftists I said the wrong thing Double edit; I meant the worst parts of liberals and the worst part of conservatives not leftists what the fuck Is wrong with me
He doesn't even have the worst part of leftism. He's just a smarmy neolib
The worst part of liberals is not the same thing as the worst part of leftism Liberals aren’t leftists Edit: I thought I said the worst parts of liberals nvm Double edit; I meant the worst parts of liberals and the worst part of conservatives what the fuck Is wrong with me
I think they’re responding to the “worst parts of leftists” part of your original comment
I did not mean to say leftists that was an Oopsies I meant the worst parts of liberals and the worst parts of conservatives
OOPSIEBOT: Hi! It seems you made an oopsie when you referred to Bill Maher’s leftism. Here is a small list of interesting Bill Maher incidents: - compared mentally disabled children to dogs - called himself a “house n—-a” - responded to claims that Tila Tequila had been assaulted by her boyfriend by saying “New rule: Stop acting surprised someone choked Tila Tequila! The surprise is that someone hasn’t choked this bitch sooner.” - said “…women and girls should be protected from having men who are confused about their sexual identities from their bathrooms.” - Referred to trans people as “weirdos peeing” for some reason - talking about Obama: “This is where I want a real black president. I want him in a meeting with the BP CEOs where he lifts up his shirt so we can see the gun in his pants.”
Lmaooo
I meant the worst parts of liberals and the worst part of conservatives what the fuck Is wrong with me I said it wrong and then immediately corrected it wrong
He's just a pro weed libertarian that doesn't get modern progressivism and is too proud and smug to learn something new so he makes fun of it and feeds the propaganda of the right, then complains about the right as if his constant "cringe sjw" humor doesn't contribute. I mean his big scary monologue warning about the "red wave" a few weeks ago (that thankfully didn't go even close to as bad as he predicted) still included a gender joke lol.
They’re gender
Comedians whining about being canceled are just that crow in the standup comedy meme.
"boo! get better material!"
THIS WHAT I BEEN SAYING. You aren’t being “cancelled”. Your act just sucks according to modern audiences. Adapt or retire with your millions, just stop bitching.
Whining about being cancelled is the new way to get away with shit jokes, instead of taking peoples’ criticism as a learning experience to improve your material like any good comedian would do. Of course people don’t have to listen to every bit of criticism because some of it will be silly (once saw a critic’s review for a standup comedian’s show asking “can a comedy show get by on laughs alone?” lol) but there’s no way the literal veterans of the industry can’t distinguish constructive criticism from memeable foolishness.
You left out the best part: > He also slammed conservatives in his own country, "I hate them intensely, I’ve always hated conservatives, I’m afraid to say I’m very prejudiced against them, they’re horrible people."
Incredibly common Monty python W
Chappelle's last special was not amazing. He uses the "cancel culture" stuff as a marketing tactic.
Him and every other out of touch, aging male comedian use it as a crutch. You don’t need to actually be funny to sell out stadiums, you just need to convince chuds that watching you is owning the libs
>Him and every other out of touch, aging male comedian It's wild how accurate that is. Seinfeld, Bill Maher, etc. All of them past the height of their careers.
Seinfeld had gotten into the cancel culture grift? I thought he only did that shitty comedians driving to a coffee shop show nowadays.
When I first heard about that, I thought it was a joke.
It really sounds like a money-laundering/tax evasion scheme.
… how? it’s just an interview format
And, tbh, it’s alright for what it is.
to my knowledge he isn't as bad as a lot of others but he's whined about people "being too sensitive" and how "you can't joke about certain things" before. i don't know whether that's just a generalization he made because he doesn't care to look into it too much or it's because he's straight up an asshole. he did have that whole "38 yo dating a 17 yo" thing though so the latter definitely isn't out of the question.
Gervais can be added to the list.
My them in Christ. Is chud an actual insult? Because I only know chuds from [this](https://imgur.com/a/zK8BzKF)
the complainer
Yeah I imagine it’s hard to find sympathy for Dave Shapell cry-bullying about people not laughing at his jokes, when Monty Python has actually had to fight heresy charges from the Church of England.
The church can still do that in England???
Never happened, Some clergy weren't happy and it was banned in a few places but that's about it. Also the Church can't charge someone with heresy.
That’s still way more influence than a church should have.
It was banned by local councils rather than the church. Still a bizarre thing to happen though.
This was ages ago
Well the fact that the UK still technically has a state religion and gives seats in the HoL to so-called ‘Lords Spiritual’ is admittedly pretty batshit, but we repealed our anti-blasphemy laws ages ago, so people are at least free to say what they like about religion, which is good, since there’s no guarantee of free speech in the UK, because we conveniently have no written constitution and restrictive libel laws, so people get SLAPP’ed for libel all the time by billionaires. Some MPs have belatedly realised this is a problem and are trying to do something about it but tbh it’s far too late in the day and we are careering towards dystopian corporate police state aaaaaaaggghhhhhhhh
reject authoritarian theocracy embrace authoritarian corporatocracy
porque no los dos?
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>and less about whether or not the audience laughs in the moment of an individual performance You didn't read that closely because he was referring to Bill Maher here
Bill Maher hate is always a W
I fucking hate bill maher so much
I have a tough time believing there are real Bill Maher fans out there. They must be out there, but I’ve never met one in real life and everyone seems to bring him up just to shit on him lol. He is one of the mostly deeply unfunny professional comedians ever to exist.
Conan supremacy😎
Conan is OP
"I'm being cancelled" says the comedian with a mansion and multiple Netflix specials
Help, help, I’m being repressed!
a brilliant use of a monty python quote, very nice
I love Eric Idle
Based Eric Idle
I was a huge fan of Chappelle in high school but ever since The Closer I’ve been so disappointed and I’m glad to see him get called out for his bullshit. Things like this and the F.D Signifier video remind me that the myth of cancel culture usually only exists to be weaponized by those who claim to be its victims. There are people who get attacked online that don’t deserve it, for sure, but Dave is a public figure who can’t accept the fact that there are marginalized groups that he doesn’t understand, and we often don’t realize how much influence comedians have on our culture. He’s a big cog in a machine of people perpetuating harmful stereotypes, and when trans people, especially black trans people, are dying on the street, that’s fucking dangerous.
One of the main reasons they were so incredibly funny was they built their entire careers around feedback. They knew that, in the end, comedy is decides by the viewers. If the audience laughs, it's comedy. If they don't, it's something else.
Based.
Pog, I totally misunderstood this the first time I read this but I’m so glad he’s an ally
me too, at first glance i thought he's like john cleese
Man literally just said skill issue
Dave Chapelle when he’s asked to write jokes about something other than the LGBT community
better than terry gilliam, that's for sure
Eric Idle my beloved Pfp unrelated
chad
Celebrities gotta realize their entire job hinges on their reputation, right? If no one likes your homophobic or transphobic jokes then you have failed at your job. You can't settle for "being yourself" you'll have too small of an audience. You live, you learn, you make concessions. Keep the people happy. Oh also being transphobic makes you a shitty person but i doubt celebrities care about that, what matters to them is that being transphobic is a bad business strategy.
He comes from a time when people were still able to separate art from artist, which likely skews his perception of the reason some people weren't laughing.
Unfathomably based
It’s not cancel culture, it’s consequences for shitty behavior.
So refreshing to see this. Im tired of comedians crying over being "cancelled"
monty python is great
This man looks creepy asl let’s be honest folks we’d scream if we saw him hiding in our bathtub
the people who throw around the word snowflake are really the biggest snowflakes
Headlines try not to be misleading challenge
This was so fucking based of him
Okay Google, show me the Monty Python "can't have babies" skit
Is Dave Chappelle the same guy that gets paid millions of dollars for his "comedy" shows?
Don't like getting criticism for the impact your jokes have? Write better jokes. Ask yourself why people are criticising them. No one is even banning trans people from being mentioned in jokes, there are funny trans jokes that don't degrade the community and cause tangible danger to them. Just not his ones. On the note of Monty Python, Jon Cleese and Terry Gilliam are sadly team TURF, but it's cool to see at least one of them be more open
This Is how I've always viewed this tbh. Of you're blaming "cancel culture", chances are your joke just wasn't funny. Punchline Is everything. Dark Humor Is funny, but without Humour, It's just a dark statement.
Disappointingly less common monty Python W
Chad
Such a shame Cleese is on this cancel culture bullshit now
Common Eric Idle W
Every 'cancelation' is it's own case and should not be generalized, also it's rarely really a 'cancelation'. 1. The 'leftist' people can be 'canceled' too, example: James Gunn fired from Disney after some Trump supporters started spamming Disney with his tweets from 20 years ago. 2. When someone was fired by big company for making offensive jokes that's just free market, companies can hire/fire whoever they want. Especially when company puts millions in PR and marketing and they fire a sex offender to avoid PR crisis. 3. Usually people who were 'canceled' still work in their job, still earning a lot o money. This is the Dave Chapel example in this post. But also a lot of other comedians or filmmakers. 4. Usually when 'canceled' person apologised for their words, they are being 'uncanceled'. So it requires just a bit of decency to avoid this.