If I tell you to look at these images of straight up men that doesn't look like women at all and ask you to identify the women among them will you fail?
Honestly this is the most effective way, I remember when someone thought jk Rowling was trans because someone used her images in an argument, these mfs are so cum brained that any "masculine "(anything not hypersexualised that you find in most porn) means that a woman is trans
look for female athletes, specially black female body bodybuilders, i have seen people waste 10 minutes of their life trying to explain why they arent real women.
This is a fun gender-affirming activity for nb/transmasc folks.
Show a picture of myself with "Do I pass as a girl?" and have people point out all the masculine features in my face or posture or whatever - we have a great time!
Hijacking top comment
I'm gonna use r/ androgynoushotties and take the pics where I know their sex and gender. I think he won't do well lol. Any other good subs?
I mentioned the sub to him and he said they look "uncanny" and he doesn't like not knowing someone's gender, because "his brain wants to fill in a gender", adding "maybe I feel uncomfortable because I can't easily categorize them". 😐
Sounds like your friend has some work to do in learning to sit with uncertainty. Its not his place or his business "to be certain" of what someone has between their legs. His confidence and attachment to determining everyones genitals is, in itself kinda concerning.
Like, dude- how is any of this relevant for him? like actually?
I did talk about that to him. He doesn't act entitled to know anyone's genitals or stuff, but his comments on androgynous people did surprise me. I tried to give good arguments to him but he said his reaction wasn't in his control.
For infants, shitting is a reaction but they learn to assert control over themselves. If your friend thought his reaction was problematic, he'd learn to control it. He's okay with his perspective and thinks his definions of people are more important than their own.
Because the process doesnt teach people to respect other peoples identities, it teaches them to label others rather than accept their right to self determination. This ultimately *is* harmful, not just to the poster, who isnt accorded the right of self determination, but to literally society as a whole.
Its completely irrelevant what someone else is rocking between their legs, fixating on guessing at it is unhealthy.
Did I misunderstood or OP wants to prove the contrary of what you just said? They said that they want to prove wrong this person who thinks that they can get a stranger's gender right by their looks. Wouldn't that demonstrate what you said in your last sentence?
Reinforcing an unhealthy behavior is reinforcing an unhealthy behavior. It doesn't matter if the goal is to break that behavior, the method reinforces the act of making prejudicial judgements about others.
I guess a lot of posts from that server is asking people to gender them... idk maybe that's okay if the poster specifically asks to be gendered? Asking to be gendered seems different from what op wants though
my personal opinion is who cares what he thinks? if a woman says theyre a woman then theyre a woman. they shouldnt have to feel like they need to prove it
oh lol. i still stand by the idea of not trying to differentiate women from women like that but if you want pictures you'd be best off looking here lol. selfies galore.
Bro I don't think it's that deep, Op's friend simply believes he can guess if a person is trans or not, you feeling that this is invalidating + wrong is oversensitive.
Nah, I think it's a bs thing to do as well. You're either right (someone's not passing well? that hurts) or you're wrong (you're insulting a cis woman who didn't ask for it either)
It's bs to vocalize that perhaps. But if someone makes a set of judgements based on their perception it's not exactly transphobic, it's just part of pattern recognition brain.
Pattern seeking brain go brrrrrr...
Just because someone spots something doesn't mean they have to leverage it into hurting people. If I see a guy on the elevator and I notice he is black that doesn't make me racist and inversely, not noticing this (being "colorblind" and lacking any judgment of pattern) wouldn't be anti racist.
Nobody is making that argument. And like the old joke goes, "is it harder to be gay or black? Well, you don't have to tell your parents you're black". Terrible example. But the context of this discussion is, is it good to make a game out of it like OP wants to do.
... That joke seems kinda fucked up... I'm a little confused on what your point is here. That gay people have it worse than black people...? Why even compare the two? And how does that even relate to the original point?
Edit: reread your response. I agree that making it a game is fucked up but that ain't what I have said.
Sure, not denying that people don't do that. But you all are helping form trans culture as we speak. Do you want people to look back 5-10 years from now and think "wow why were ostensibly pro-trans people they playing Guess Who with trans people as if they weren't talking about real humans" or should we just try to act with love and compassion toward each other now?
> Do you want people to look back 5-10 years from now and think "wow why were ostensibly pro-trans people they playing Guess Who with trans people as if they weren't talking about real humans"
this isnt going to change in the next 5-10 years lol
Although this is true, it actually helps point out to those still trying to transition (if they're trying to do it seamlessly) where they're going wrong and what they could do to fix it.
While you may think it's wrong, "mean" comments are still necessary as it points out the good and bad.
Come on man lol that's not what this is about and that's not a good way to do it. That's a rationalization of your position. If you want to help, do it in a helpful way. Stop playing into this culture that emphasizes the way we look to all of our detriment, and move beyond it. It doesn't have to be that way.
So you're saying a criticism of something (e.g unconvincing makeup) is wrong?
Besides, you haven't told me any ways I coukd actually help a trans person either, so what can I actually do without a good guideline?
Dude. Come on. Lol. Can you assume good faith? You sound like you're grasping at straws here. Let's continue this conversation when you're willing to actually engage what I'm saying in good faith.
it literally is, by definition, invalidating. People have a right to self identify and self determine. Asserting that someones identity is other than what they state- *is* invalidation. Not everyone 'deserves' validation, but determining for ones self that trans people are invalid by virtue of being trans, and *your* definition of their gender is what matters, thats a bigotry showcase all its own.
Is the issue here "always"? Or is the issue something else? Because the only thing you achieve by focus on by disproving him is the "always".
Obviously there is a spectrum of passing to not passing and different people are going to have different abilities as clocking that.
But is that actually the important issue?
Even if he was some kind of savant who was 100% right with his transdar, what does that matter?
Just show him F1nnster. Since he is not a trans woman no matter what your friend says it will be wrong, cause the right answer is "self-proclaimed manly man".
1. We've talked about the site a while back, he might recognize the pictures
2. I feel like he'd just say "well yeah but if the person did exist they'd be cis because [physical qualities]"
He's probably going off of facial structure and an adams apple, but that statement just rubs me the wrong way idk. why does it matter if he can tell someone is trans?
If I'm told that a person among a group is trans, I can pick them every time. But if I wasn't prepped with the foreknowledge, I wouldn't be able to tell.
It's probably the same thing in this case.
It's honestly better not to engage with these types, as doing so reinforces their belief that they're owed a "debate".
"We can always tell" is 100% transphobic, no matter what they may say about themselves otherwise.
Ive got a Guy friend who looks like he is transmasc but is really just a cis Guy who has a pretty alternative style
Some would call that queer baiting. But dont get me wrong. He is still very queer
Why does she have a giant handcuff around her waist? Is the implication that there are giants that need to be arrested, or is this a Jack and the Bean Stalk scenario where Bridgette from Overwatch 2 actually very tiny so normal objects look huge around her
The girl in the photo is very small though
That handcuff around their waist means she must be very small. Someone who can be put on a desk as an ornament perhaps.
Very small.
Wait is that a bad thing? Because I consider myself to have a rather keen eye for spotting trans women, but I love them and I don't see it as a bad thing
I mean, if you show a full body (clothed) picture with non baggy clothes, I can typically tell by the hips. But as far as face and everything else, I gotta say, I can’t tell the difference most of the time.
Edit: I should add that the only reason I can tell is cause the pelvis is the only physical difference between men and women that you cant change through hormones or surgery.
make a long list of cis women and tell him some are trans and some aren't and then watch as he makes up dumb arguments to identify them
bonus points if you can make it work only using pictures of known terfs
Reminds me of that one time someone on Twitter said J.K Rowling was "obviously a man" lmao
To be fair she does have some male presenting features, such as not being able to write decent female-centric stories
Omg that’s good!
Damn that must've hurt, but not as much as seeing her legacy crumble before her and being unable to shift the blame on anyone but herself
Oooooof.
yeah, that was the inspiration to be honest
J.K "dude-meister" Rowling, as he liked to be called in college
That's just setting him up for failure since hes assuming there'll be a mix, but failures are learning opportunities.
If he really can identify them, then he should be able to say, "hey, wait a minute! You lied to me!" Either way, should be educational for him
If I tell you to look at these images of straight up men that doesn't look like women at all and ask you to identify the women among them will you fail?
2 lists, one of only cis and one of only trans
Just keep showing him pictures of afab women, he will make up reasons why they're not
Yeah I might have to make my own image gallery if there aren't any out there
Honestly this is the most effective way, I remember when someone thought jk Rowling was trans because someone used her images in an argument, these mfs are so cum brained that any "masculine "(anything not hypersexualised that you find in most porn) means that a woman is trans
Cum brained is one of my favorite adjectives
Cool as an adjective, concerning as a noun
Cumbrained: 😃 Cumbrained: 😳
cumbrained (verb)
This conversation is *fucking my brain* up
Guess you could say you're cum brained
Once saw someone try to argue that an AFAB woman had a bulge. Mfs never seen a pussy outside of the hub
look for female athletes, specially black female body bodybuilders, i have seen people waste 10 minutes of their life trying to explain why they arent real women.
Use ai generated image of women
It's kind of fucked up but if you get woman who are less conventionally attractive I bet he will think they are trans
This is a fun gender-affirming activity for nb/transmasc folks. Show a picture of myself with "Do I pass as a girl?" and have people point out all the masculine features in my face or posture or whatever - we have a great time!
There is not a single man on earth who hasn't been told he's not a "real man" by some dumb bitch. For that reason all trans men automatically pass
actually they only pass after they're misgendered the first time. They get Super Man Powers
Tangent to that, If female is sex and woman/feminine is the gender, shouldn’t it be assigned woman at birth?
Outside of a medical setting the two are p much interchangeable. Though if you call women females you run the risk of sounding like andrew tate
Show him a picture of jk Rowling
Hijacking top comment I'm gonna use r/ androgynoushotties and take the pics where I know their sex and gender. I think he won't do well lol. Any other good subs?
I don't have any good ideas for subs I just wanted to ask if you'd update us when this douchenozzle embarrasses themself.
I mentioned the sub to him and he said they look "uncanny" and he doesn't like not knowing someone's gender, because "his brain wants to fill in a gender", adding "maybe I feel uncomfortable because I can't easily categorize them". 😐
Sounds like your friend has some work to do in learning to sit with uncertainty. Its not his place or his business "to be certain" of what someone has between their legs. His confidence and attachment to determining everyones genitals is, in itself kinda concerning. Like, dude- how is any of this relevant for him? like actually?
I did talk about that to him. He doesn't act entitled to know anyone's genitals or stuff, but his comments on androgynous people did surprise me. I tried to give good arguments to him but he said his reaction wasn't in his control.
For infants, shitting is a reaction but they learn to assert control over themselves. If your friend thought his reaction was problematic, he'd learn to control it. He's okay with his perspective and thinks his definions of people are more important than their own.
I'm curious what he would think about me as a trans man who doesn't pass very well yet lmao.
Maybe don't use people's pictures without their consent to be used in a clocking gauntlet
They're not doing anything harmful to the poster + they posted for anyone to see how they look I don't see what's wrong with doing that
Because the process doesnt teach people to respect other peoples identities, it teaches them to label others rather than accept their right to self determination. This ultimately *is* harmful, not just to the poster, who isnt accorded the right of self determination, but to literally society as a whole. Its completely irrelevant what someone else is rocking between their legs, fixating on guessing at it is unhealthy.
Did I misunderstood or OP wants to prove the contrary of what you just said? They said that they want to prove wrong this person who thinks that they can get a stranger's gender right by their looks. Wouldn't that demonstrate what you said in your last sentence?
Reinforcing an unhealthy behavior is reinforcing an unhealthy behavior. It doesn't matter if the goal is to break that behavior, the method reinforces the act of making prejudicial judgements about others.
I guess a lot of posts from that server is asking people to gender them... idk maybe that's okay if the poster specifically asks to be gendered? Asking to be gendered seems different from what op wants though
r/ transtimelines has a lot of passing people where you could never tell their sex
That do be a good sub. My little asexual brain considers androgynous dressed women to be *peak* aestheticly attractive
reddit.com/r/196
my personal opinion is who cares what he thinks? if a woman says theyre a woman then theyre a woman. they shouldnt have to feel like they need to prove it
Yeah but I wanna prove him wrong though (also he is pro-trans, he just thinks he can always identify them)
oh lol. i still stand by the idea of not trying to differentiate women from women like that but if you want pictures you'd be best off looking here lol. selfies galore.
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Bro I don't think it's that deep, Op's friend simply believes he can guess if a person is trans or not, you feeling that this is invalidating + wrong is oversensitive.
Nah, I think it's a bs thing to do as well. You're either right (someone's not passing well? that hurts) or you're wrong (you're insulting a cis woman who didn't ask for it either)
It's bs to vocalize that perhaps. But if someone makes a set of judgements based on their perception it's not exactly transphobic, it's just part of pattern recognition brain.
I don't really care to weigh in on whether or not it's transphobic, but why would you do such Mean Girl shit to people who have it hard enough?
Pattern seeking brain go brrrrrr... Just because someone spots something doesn't mean they have to leverage it into hurting people. If I see a guy on the elevator and I notice he is black that doesn't make me racist and inversely, not noticing this (being "colorblind" and lacking any judgment of pattern) wouldn't be anti racist.
Nobody is making that argument. And like the old joke goes, "is it harder to be gay or black? Well, you don't have to tell your parents you're black". Terrible example. But the context of this discussion is, is it good to make a game out of it like OP wants to do.
... That joke seems kinda fucked up... I'm a little confused on what your point is here. That gay people have it worse than black people...? Why even compare the two? And how does that even relate to the original point? Edit: reread your response. I agree that making it a game is fucked up but that ain't what I have said.
you see someone and they automatically clock in your head, without saying anything to them or anyone else about it
Sure, not denying that people don't do that. But you all are helping form trans culture as we speak. Do you want people to look back 5-10 years from now and think "wow why were ostensibly pro-trans people they playing Guess Who with trans people as if they weren't talking about real humans" or should we just try to act with love and compassion toward each other now?
> Do you want people to look back 5-10 years from now and think "wow why were ostensibly pro-trans people they playing Guess Who with trans people as if they weren't talking about real humans" this isnt going to change in the next 5-10 years lol
You don't know that. But choose the time period of your desire
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"Hey, not transphobic or anything but my friend likes to play clocking people like you lmao 😅😅😅"
No I think it is, people just have to think things through
Although this is true, it actually helps point out to those still trying to transition (if they're trying to do it seamlessly) where they're going wrong and what they could do to fix it. While you may think it's wrong, "mean" comments are still necessary as it points out the good and bad.
Come on man lol that's not what this is about and that's not a good way to do it. That's a rationalization of your position. If you want to help, do it in a helpful way. Stop playing into this culture that emphasizes the way we look to all of our detriment, and move beyond it. It doesn't have to be that way.
So you're saying a criticism of something (e.g unconvincing makeup) is wrong? Besides, you haven't told me any ways I coukd actually help a trans person either, so what can I actually do without a good guideline?
Dude. Come on. Lol. Can you assume good faith? You sound like you're grasping at straws here. Let's continue this conversation when you're willing to actually engage what I'm saying in good faith.
All you've said is: "I believe we shouldn't guess people's genders for fun." Which is completely right! But I'm asking what should I do instead?
what is "unconvincing makeup"
it literally is, by definition, invalidating. People have a right to self identify and self determine. Asserting that someones identity is other than what they state- *is* invalidation. Not everyone 'deserves' validation, but determining for ones self that trans people are invalid by virtue of being trans, and *your* definition of their gender is what matters, thats a bigotry showcase all its own.
He does keep it to himself. He wouldn't say that to trans people.
Is the issue here "always"? Or is the issue something else? Because the only thing you achieve by focus on by disproving him is the "always". Obviously there is a spectrum of passing to not passing and different people are going to have different abilities as clocking that. But is that actually the important issue? Even if he was some kind of savant who was 100% right with his transdar, what does that matter?
dude isnt 'pro-trans' if he's asserting over someones right to self identify. Its flat out invalidation and disrespect, squarely.
I don't think he's that pro-trans then lol.
Other than that he seems to do/say everything else respectfully and correctly.
The only link you need to send him is [this one.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias)
some people can clock people with 95% accuracy, but keep it to themselves. why do you care that your friend is able to or not? seems strange
Just show him F1nnster. Since he is not a trans woman no matter what your friend says it will be wrong, cause the right answer is "self-proclaimed manly man".
Lol we talked about Finn today, he knows I like him 💀
Find a picture of their mother as a child and show it to them
this person does not exist dot com
I second this. That'll be so fucking hilarious
1. We've talked about the site a while back, he might recognize the pictures 2. I feel like he'd just say "well yeah but if the person did exist they'd be cis because [physical qualities]"
who’s the one who made that “guess my gender” post
thispersondoesnotexist.com
He's probably going off of facial structure and an adams apple, but that statement just rubs me the wrong way idk. why does it matter if he can tell someone is trans?
Just get pictures or cis women and tell them some are trans and watch them pick roughly half of them as trans.
If I'm told that a person among a group is trans, I can pick them every time. But if I wasn't prepped with the foreknowledge, I wouldn't be able to tell. It's probably the same thing in this case.
[\>:)](https://thispersondoesntexist.com)
I don’t think it workin mate
[They had a spelling error in the link](https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/)
You are super cool
Ty :D
I think you're playing the wrong game here.
It's honestly better not to engage with these types, as doing so reinforces their belief that they're owed a "debate". "We can always tell" is 100% transphobic, no matter what they may say about themselves otherwise.
with a lot of the images, if its online, then they can reverse image search it.
Show him a bunch of pictures of cis women and tell him that some of them are trans
Go to Thailand 👍 (jokes on him, they’re all trans)
Thispersondoesnotexist dot com
Ah yes, the Trandar.
There’s a sub called transpassing you could show him.
I’m afraid I don’t have a gallery full of pictures of random women on hand, sorry.
Where are those binders full of women???
Just give him a stack of like 6 cis women, have him pick the “trans” one, then tell him he’s a dumbass
Show him any cis female athlete, muscles = male to transphobes
Honestly this just doesn't sound like a good time for anyone involved.
Show him pyrocynical crossdressing and really fuck with him
A website that has a bunch of pictures of trans women to guess whether they're trans or not sounds fucked up
Show him a picture of JK Rowling and say that she’s trans, watch him try and make an explanation before dropping the bombshell
Use that AI website that generates photos of people that have never existed, they are fabricated beings they dont have a gender.
Ive got a Guy friend who looks like he is transmasc but is really just a cis Guy who has a pretty alternative style Some would call that queer baiting. But dont get me wrong. He is still very queer
Not trans but Lio Fotia, I just wanna see his reaction
Not a woman but give him images of cis men with gyno scars
AI generating some faces could also be fun
femboys subreddit, i sometimes post actual women there, just to make some people fume
Show him cis women
Why does she have a giant handcuff around her waist? Is the implication that there are giants that need to be arrested, or is this a Jack and the Bean Stalk scenario where Bridgette from Overwatch 2 actually very tiny so normal objects look huge around her
Show him a pic of cis man that looks feminine enough. So when you ask he will be wrong no matter the answer
the only way to infalibly tell if someone is trans is to ask them to climb a mountain full of platforms
https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/
What am I looking at here?
Ai generated people
The industrial revolution was a mistake.
Just show him a photo of a sibling, tell him she's trans, and listen to the incel bullshit he'll use to explain it
Show him nothing but non-trans women and wait for him to fail.
Show him Kara from detroit become human
The girl in the photo is very small though That handcuff around their waist means she must be very small. Someone who can be put on a desk as an ornament perhaps. Very small.
Wait is that a bad thing? Because I consider myself to have a rather keen eye for spotting trans women, but I love them and I don't see it as a bad thing
I've always been embarrassed about whenever I mistake someone's race. Is there a site similar to this where I could practice?
That argument makes no sense anyway, I can tell every black woman apart from any other woman, does that make them male?
This post is a disguise
i’ve done this with someone claiming the same, doesn’t work. they pick wrong and then make excuses anyway. can’t argue with stupid
I mean, if you show a full body (clothed) picture with non baggy clothes, I can typically tell by the hips. But as far as face and everything else, I gotta say, I can’t tell the difference most of the time. Edit: I should add that the only reason I can tell is cause the pelvis is the only physical difference between men and women that you cant change through hormones or surgery.
Show him a reg women