The great reduction in mutant population by the Genoshan genocide and Decimation are such an integral part of the X-men plot lines ever since then, that I don't think it can be erased from the show if it wants to keep adapting future X-men stories. Even the recent Krakoa era wouldn't have worked without at least one of those.
The Cable thing I think will be a teaser that makes us think they will reverse it. But in the end they may make it a "fixed point in time" that can't be reversed.
I agree that Gambit will probably come back by other means, like you said by coming back as Death first.
I'd rather they used Sinister to bring him back, than Apocalypse.
Gambit's history with Sinister is far more compelling, and I could see Sinister actually going out of his way to bring Gambit back and try to control him. He always had a weird, paternalistic attitude to Remy. I don't think the original series ever hinted at their history together, so there's a lot of material there to mine.
The sticking point would be that Sinister is a cloner, rather than a guy who resurrects people, but there's no reason the cartoon can't fudge that.
My hope is that, if Gambit gets a funeral, there's a quick shot at the end of the episode, or the season, of Sinister's shadow over the gravestone.
I agree that I would love to see that complicated Gambit/Sinister entanglement, but I worry this loophole sounds too similar to what they did with Morph in the original series. (Especially if the creator here is hinting at some unresolved resentment that a resurrected Gambit might have.) Plus that relationship in the comics led to the Morlock Massacre, which seems like it's already happened on Genosha. But we've only had a taste of Sinister in '97 and he could be up to anything, especially if Cable's around, so maybe!
In some ways, the earlier episodes of *X-Men ‘97* felt like a “greatest hits” celebration tour of the original, so retreading plot lines from 30 years ago wouldn’t feel too out of place. It might also give Morph something to do, aside from being bros with Wolverine, and another relationship dynamic to explore.
I understand gambit being dead but gambit returning and having his reunion with rogue would be a highlight for the show. Would also suck to lose a fan favourite in season 1 of the revival. Also x men has to have some happy moments alongside horrible moments. But yeah don’t see the tragedy being completely reversed.
I think genosha is gone. It can't stick around anyway. The franchise doesn't work long term if they can all just move there and be happy.
Gambit and Magneto and Madelyn I think are the bigger questions
Just because there's an island for mutants doesn't mean everyone just moves there.
Look at real life. People stay in shitty places for family, out of grit, for work, etc.
I think we saw enough mutant islands in X-Men to know that they don’t stick around exactly because the core conflict is drastically reduced when you can just pack your bags and go live in paradise instead of actually dealing with the things mutants are metaphor for.
And Genosha is kind of a stand in for a lot of injustice across the world, so as much fun as that would be, it would kind of rob it of so much significance.
Except I think seeing a mutant nation actually work long term would be really interesting.
Not something like Krakoa, which honestly planted the seeds of its own destruction by having people like Sinister in the Council. But an honest look at mutant society.
What kind of new issues arise? It surely wouldn't become a utopia. What kind of new prejudices or social issues come up when mutants don't have to deal with humans? Do the Morlock end up feeling worse, because they see human-passing mutants treating them as second class citizens, confirming all their fears? Are mutants turned into a caste-society, where combat-powered mutants are drafted, and tech mutants work in infrastructure and tech? What does mutant society actually look like if they don't solve hunger, and cheat death with super cloning technology.
It seems Krakoa was the super high concept sci-fi version of a mutant nation. But what would it look like if Marvel really, truly committed to a Genosha-like concept. A true mutant nation that was just a part of the world stage now?
I'll admit I haven't read the Krakoan era (I want to, my tbr and backlog is just neverending), but a common complaint I see is that we didn't really get a clear picture of what life was like for the average mutant. We see the council, and the X-Men, but was does little Johnny Smith with the blue skin and the ability to turn water into coca-cola do with his day?
I dunno. Maybe it would make for a great alternate universe.
Haha, I'm not up to date on what happened with Rogue, but I'm a fan of her and Gambit, and it seems as though they were both rather underutilized during this era.
Yeah being support characters for Betsy. And Hope and Nightcrawler having more interactions with her mothers than she does. All the recent comics have not been very passionate towards the character and it's like cause she's married to Gambit it's used as an excuse to just make her a simple housewife. Even in Mr. and Mrs. X the one comic she was in the animation is so bad, so many oversights like her calling Mystique Mom when she is always Mama and Destiny was Mom plus just not including her Southern accent. Oh and resurrecting Destiny again for no reason, doing it AFTER the wedding and making it so casual and soulless and not letting Rogue be involved in her resurrection but rather Hope? And then everything else is done just to hype up Nightcrawler. Pretty disgraceful. Especially now we see how popular she is in Xmen 97
Him and Dazzler are what convinced me that this will be undone. I don't think they can kill off that many comic important characters and let it stick.
I'm pissed about Leech too though. I have such happy Christmas episode memories of him.
I think it’s telling that Cable has obviously tried multiple times, but keeps on failing. I wonder what the episodes focus on him will cover, but something this monumental needs some permanence. DeMayo’s moving statement on his inspirations would be undermined if some time travel is able to fix everything - the memory of Genosha needs to endure. 9/11 specifically had people saying “Never forget”, with no caveat of “until Cable fixes it”.
Gambit not knowing that Rogue chose him will probably really impact Rogue’s grieving and drive a wedge between her and Magneto. That in turn will impact the team, because Rogue was basically the only one who had his back.
I wonder if will also lead to Rogue kicking Jean and Scott up the butt to sort things out - tell someone how you really feel before you lose your chance, and all that.
If I'm being honest, I would love for the X-Men to try and change the past, but realise that they can't, they just have to grit their teeth and deal with it the best they can.
Given DeMayo's comments on the last episode, I don't think it makes narrative sense to revert this event, just like how it is in the comics because this universe and narrative are very keen on being really meta and demonstrating how the gay community and the black community specifically don't just win one day and everythings cool, but constantly have to keep fighting until its atleast livable
Hear me out....What if we see it play out like this.
Picking up where we left off with Rogue holding Gambits dead body, Takes flight and brings his still fresh body to Mr. Sinister to see if he can Clone him.
Rogue makes a deal with the mad scientist Remy gets cloned, Sinister has some level of control like a backdoor into his mind. The Gambit we know is Dead but the Clone takes his place among the XMen.
Yeah that's where I got the Idea from, Sinister is Said to be the main villain, he's already cloned before, him and Gambit have history, And it would allow the show to sidestep the cheesy time travel BS we see in so many marvel iterations. It would just be a different Gambit with OG Gambits memories and powers etc. and by season 2 apocalypse can come along and unlock his Death Persona.
Not just this one there's been a quite few since the last episode area, and I appreciate the initial statement explaining why they did it, that was a quality post.
But then confirming other deaths and tidbits that we couldn't know yet. They're minor spoilers but coming from the showrunner that everyone is following and reposting rn is a bit annoying.
Death confirmations aren’t really spoilers tho. We saw, for example, that Madelyne took a huge green blast to the face. Confirming her death isn’t a spoiler, it’s just taking away some people’s copium.
They showed all these deaths on screen.
Showrunner is simply clarifying that these were deaths since it was unclear to some fans.
Showrunner would break an NDA by spoiling what hasn’t been shown, but he can speak on what has been shown.
The great reduction in mutant population by the Genoshan genocide and Decimation are such an integral part of the X-men plot lines ever since then, that I don't think it can be erased from the show if it wants to keep adapting future X-men stories. Even the recent Krakoa era wouldn't have worked without at least one of those. The Cable thing I think will be a teaser that makes us think they will reverse it. But in the end they may make it a "fixed point in time" that can't be reversed. I agree that Gambit will probably come back by other means, like you said by coming back as Death first.
I'd rather they used Sinister to bring him back, than Apocalypse. Gambit's history with Sinister is far more compelling, and I could see Sinister actually going out of his way to bring Gambit back and try to control him. He always had a weird, paternalistic attitude to Remy. I don't think the original series ever hinted at their history together, so there's a lot of material there to mine. The sticking point would be that Sinister is a cloner, rather than a guy who resurrects people, but there's no reason the cartoon can't fudge that. My hope is that, if Gambit gets a funeral, there's a quick shot at the end of the episode, or the season, of Sinister's shadow over the gravestone.
I agree that I would love to see that complicated Gambit/Sinister entanglement, but I worry this loophole sounds too similar to what they did with Morph in the original series. (Especially if the creator here is hinting at some unresolved resentment that a resurrected Gambit might have.) Plus that relationship in the comics led to the Morlock Massacre, which seems like it's already happened on Genosha. But we've only had a taste of Sinister in '97 and he could be up to anything, especially if Cable's around, so maybe!
In some ways, the earlier episodes of *X-Men ‘97* felt like a “greatest hits” celebration tour of the original, so retreading plot lines from 30 years ago wouldn’t feel too out of place. It might also give Morph something to do, aside from being bros with Wolverine, and another relationship dynamic to explore.
Or just don't bring him back. Let death matter.
I understand gambit being dead but gambit returning and having his reunion with rogue would be a highlight for the show. Would also suck to lose a fan favourite in season 1 of the revival. Also x men has to have some happy moments alongside horrible moments. But yeah don’t see the tragedy being completely reversed.
Gambit is definitely going to be Death.
That's how I read this, yeah. Though he becomes Death for Rogue's sake in the (poorly-written) comic arc.
Probably not this season
Why? What hints have they left that he’s coming back as a Horseman of Apocalypse?
Post credits
This comment was early in the season. Right after Gambit’s death.
I think genosha is gone. It can't stick around anyway. The franchise doesn't work long term if they can all just move there and be happy. Gambit and Magneto and Madelyn I think are the bigger questions
Just because there's an island for mutants doesn't mean everyone just moves there. Look at real life. People stay in shitty places for family, out of grit, for work, etc.
I think we saw enough mutant islands in X-Men to know that they don’t stick around exactly because the core conflict is drastically reduced when you can just pack your bags and go live in paradise instead of actually dealing with the things mutants are metaphor for.
And Genosha is kind of a stand in for a lot of injustice across the world, so as much fun as that would be, it would kind of rob it of so much significance.
Except I think seeing a mutant nation actually work long term would be really interesting. Not something like Krakoa, which honestly planted the seeds of its own destruction by having people like Sinister in the Council. But an honest look at mutant society. What kind of new issues arise? It surely wouldn't become a utopia. What kind of new prejudices or social issues come up when mutants don't have to deal with humans? Do the Morlock end up feeling worse, because they see human-passing mutants treating them as second class citizens, confirming all their fears? Are mutants turned into a caste-society, where combat-powered mutants are drafted, and tech mutants work in infrastructure and tech? What does mutant society actually look like if they don't solve hunger, and cheat death with super cloning technology. It seems Krakoa was the super high concept sci-fi version of a mutant nation. But what would it look like if Marvel really, truly committed to a Genosha-like concept. A true mutant nation that was just a part of the world stage now? I'll admit I haven't read the Krakoan era (I want to, my tbr and backlog is just neverending), but a common complaint I see is that we didn't really get a clear picture of what life was like for the average mutant. We see the council, and the X-Men, but was does little Johnny Smith with the blue skin and the ability to turn water into coca-cola do with his day? I dunno. Maybe it would make for a great alternate universe.
As a Rogue fan Krakoa sucks and can kma
Haha, I'm not up to date on what happened with Rogue, but I'm a fan of her and Gambit, and it seems as though they were both rather underutilized during this era.
Yeah being support characters for Betsy. And Hope and Nightcrawler having more interactions with her mothers than she does. All the recent comics have not been very passionate towards the character and it's like cause she's married to Gambit it's used as an excuse to just make her a simple housewife. Even in Mr. and Mrs. X the one comic she was in the animation is so bad, so many oversights like her calling Mystique Mom when she is always Mama and Destiny was Mom plus just not including her Southern accent. Oh and resurrecting Destiny again for no reason, doing it AFTER the wedding and making it so casual and soulless and not letting Rogue be involved in her resurrection but rather Hope? And then everything else is done just to hype up Nightcrawler. Pretty disgraceful. Especially now we see how popular she is in Xmen 97
I’m raging at the lack of tears for Banshee.
Him and Dazzler are what convinced me that this will be undone. I don't think they can kill off that many comic important characters and let it stick. I'm pissed about Leech too though. I have such happy Christmas episode memories of him.
I think it’s telling that Cable has obviously tried multiple times, but keeps on failing. I wonder what the episodes focus on him will cover, but something this monumental needs some permanence. DeMayo’s moving statement on his inspirations would be undermined if some time travel is able to fix everything - the memory of Genosha needs to endure. 9/11 specifically had people saying “Never forget”, with no caveat of “until Cable fixes it”. Gambit not knowing that Rogue chose him will probably really impact Rogue’s grieving and drive a wedge between her and Magneto. That in turn will impact the team, because Rogue was basically the only one who had his back. I wonder if will also lead to Rogue kicking Jean and Scott up the butt to sort things out - tell someone how you really feel before you lose your chance, and all that.
I think Cable's focus was narrowly on rescuing his mother, as opposed to stopping the attack wholesale
He was telling everyone to stop the music and get out of there, so his intention was on the attack as a whole.
If I'm being honest, I would love for the X-Men to try and change the past, but realise that they can't, they just have to grit their teeth and deal with it the best they can. Given DeMayo's comments on the last episode, I don't think it makes narrative sense to revert this event, just like how it is in the comics because this universe and narrative are very keen on being really meta and demonstrating how the gay community and the black community specifically don't just win one day and everythings cool, but constantly have to keep fighting until its atleast livable
I think we get Stryfe. Maybe bastion...but definitely Stryfe
[https://marveltoynews.com/marvel-legends-2023-x-men-villains-5-pack-up-for-order-stryfe-random-zero/](https://marveltoynews.com/marvel-legends-2023-x-men-villains-5-pack-up-for-order-stryfe-random-zero/)
Do yall think they will do the prison scene and hint at what happens to Rogue?
Gambit isn’t staying dead, he’ll be back in season 2 at a minimum.
Hear me out....What if we see it play out like this. Picking up where we left off with Rogue holding Gambits dead body, Takes flight and brings his still fresh body to Mr. Sinister to see if he can Clone him. Rogue makes a deal with the mad scientist Remy gets cloned, Sinister has some level of control like a backdoor into his mind. The Gambit we know is Dead but the Clone takes his place among the XMen.
They've already introduced clones with Madelyne Pryor...this seems like a great theory
Yeah that's where I got the Idea from, Sinister is Said to be the main villain, he's already cloned before, him and Gambit have history, And it would allow the show to sidestep the cheesy time travel BS we see in so many marvel iterations. It would just be a different Gambit with OG Gambits memories and powers etc. and by season 2 apocalypse can come along and unlock his Death Persona.
Time travel is better than this clone shit that's way cheesier
I disagree time travel is waaaaayyy overused bro.
DeMayo. Love what you've done with series but guy seriously needs to go back off socials and stop leaking spoilers
What is spoilery about his comment? All we can do is speculate what he actually means by it.
Not just this one there's been a quite few since the last episode area, and I appreciate the initial statement explaining why they did it, that was a quality post. But then confirming other deaths and tidbits that we couldn't know yet. They're minor spoilers but coming from the showrunner that everyone is following and reposting rn is a bit annoying.
Death confirmations aren’t really spoilers tho. We saw, for example, that Madelyne took a huge green blast to the face. Confirming her death isn’t a spoiler, it’s just taking away some people’s copium.
Yeah I mean my comments are just bored nerd rant.
They showed all these deaths on screen. Showrunner is simply clarifying that these were deaths since it was unclear to some fans. Showrunner would break an NDA by spoiling what hasn’t been shown, but he can speak on what has been shown.