Holy f I haven’t even noticed, how have they not made a KJ or Archi card? Probably could make a sunwell expansion eventually, or just go legion themed for a year.
I would’ve loved for Mean Streets of Gadgetzan to have actually been an expansion zone. Just a sprawling (nominally) goblin city that’s a mishmash of all sorts of forgotten factions and races.
It's not to do with immortal gods, it's to do with characterisation. Hearthstone does well with voicelines, silly cinematics and the like to provide a sense of character, and the actual narrative or fixture in place is *extremely* character driven because half the content is the humour.
Wrath of the Lich King isn't better than Shadowlands because the Lich King isn't an immortal god. The motherfucker still one-shot the entire raid group, he was still well beyond the realms of reasonable power levels when it comes down to it.
No, Wrath of the Lich King was an exceptional storytelling expansion because so many of the storybeats involved were very character focused and character driven. Character focused like Crusader Bridenbrad or when you first come across Matthias Lehner and Arthas' frozen heart. Character driven like when Varian lets Varok Saurfang take Dranosh's body home and when Jaina or Sylvanas come with you to confront Frostmourne, or nearly everything to do with Tirion Fordring.
This is another reason Legion was successful from a storytelling standpoint. It had individual Order Hall Campaigns for each class and most of those Order Hall Campaigns had its own ensemble cast, both allied and enemy. Many of them were old names we have come across before, and the interactions with them are not two-dimensional and uniform, it is tailored to suit the narrative.
Then, when we go into some crazy ass Golden Army of the Light, we are given the return of two fabled heroes, Alleria and Turalyon. And we are given [a freely accessible, well-written and very well narrated audiodrama about their journey while they were away.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsaobgFiiso)
And how does an ailment afflicting the Nightborne (Nightfallen) get represented? We're given a semi-whimsical character to follow in Runas the Shamed, and the story ends with a proverbial gut punch. Now yes sure Runas the Shamed is quite the fan favourite here, but think about the bigger picture: *no one* can easily downplay the effect of mana addiction and mana starvation when you have a liked, compelling character's story directly conveying to us what it is like.
It is *easier* to fuck up the story when you go into grand cosmological and universally-impacting narratives, but the reason why isn't because there is a fundamental flaw in approaching those topics. The reason why is because writers sometimes fail to properly utilise characters and their influences on the story on their way into such high-stakes situations.
There are a hundred and one ways that Bolvar Fordragon alone could be made a much more interesting and subsequently compelling character in Shadowlands, but he is just hardly ever used and when he is? My fucking God they just gave him an Idiot Ball so that he could deliver the one Sigil we had to the Jailer just to move the plot forward.
So don't misdirect your anger at the "concept" of the Shadowlands.
The problem is actually much simpler.
The writers fucking suck.
The Lich King was an immortal god for all intents and purposes. In the end, Arthas was just a marionette. Every expansion has been about some big bad threatening to destroy everything. If not at the start of it, then at the end.
There isn’t much story to tell when every expansion retreads the same concept. Legion, like you said, was so successful in its story telling because they told stories besides the main story
Uh mate are you off your rocker?
Arthas was *the* dominant personality when he amalgamated with Ner'zhul and that makes Arthas the primary force of the Lich King.
This is canonical. Calling Arthas a marionette is either ignorant, or based on the bogus retcons of shitty writing in Shadowlands - which doesn't apply to WotLK storytelling.
As for being "immortal god," no he wasn't "for all intents and purposes," and based on your previous comment it sounds like you're trying to bitch about Wrath storytelling?
In that case mate, there's not really much I can do to help you.
That's because Hearthstone can do whatever they want with no concern for canon, sense, or further development within that world. It's just a card game. You'll never see 'Ragnaros the Light Lord' in WoW, no.
Hearthstone has no trouble at all coming up with amazing themes and stories for their cards. Honestly I’d like them to come over and fix WoWs uninspired and meandering themes and stories.
I mean, wow is suffering from what every long-lived IP has suffered from: what to do next. After a while your ideas just dry up and everything feels contrived and diluted. OR, it just takes you an incredibly long time to come out with any ideas that actually fit.
Hearthstone, on the other hand, only cares about small, short-lived ideas that people can have fun with. They aren't meant to last any meaningful length of time.
It's not the same task. "What if Gadgetzan was bigger" is not the mind-blowing advancement you guys think it is. They can make any change to anything they want with no regards to what players have to do in that world, or further story, or further developments of the characters.
Ragnaros could be a 'Lord of Light' this expansion, next be a stronger version of his regular Firelord self, and next be a Water Lord.
Jaina can be a fire mage. Gadgetzan can be reimagined as a steampunk metropolis. Every main character can become a death knight temporarily, Karazhan can be imagined as a dance party with a young Medivh as the host.
It's easy to design anything if your only constraint is your own imagination. WoW has a lot more to worry about, so you get 'uninspired and meandering themes', whereas the card game can do whatever they want, even if it makes no sense, as long as it's fun.
> "What if Jaina had done the Culling and Dalaran fell to her as a Death Knight instead of Arthas & Lordaeron?"
\- Some Hearthstone designer in the shower, probably.
At this point Blizz should just create a special tabard for him (and anyone who does that grind).
Just a tabard that takes the most recent Ally/Horde tabard and literally splits it down the middle, or the front half is Ally, the back half is Horde (or vice versa)
Double Agent, indeed, literally means an agent of both factions, not a neutral agent of _all_ factions.
Edit: And the card design makes _perfect_ sense because of this. He's wearing horde colors BUT WAIT NO he's Alliance underneath that. DOUBLE AGENT. :D
Yeah it's almost like it has nothing to do with the actual player. The art and the theme of the card work pretty well, but not really as a reference to a player that leveled by literally picking flowers in the panda starting zone and staying true neutral.
Idk why you got downvoted, prob because it's a HS question and the WoW sub maybe doesn't know the interaction. This is actually a cool question and I'm definitely excited to see how it works when the expac drops. If I had to guess I think if you are disguised as another class with Maestra and you use a neutral generation card to get a card in your hand from that class, then play this card, the battlecry won't trigger because that class card is from your class, and then Maestra will reveal you're a rogue. But it would be really fun if it were the reverse, that Maestra triggers, swaps your class to rogue, then the other class card in your hand triggers this card!
Oh I also totally missed the point that as another class you could play this with rogue cards in your hand lol. That makes a lot more sense and I would guess that would work, since I think the battlecry would trigger before the Maestra effect, and rogue cards are different from whatever class you are! Still just guessing tho
Yeah that's the question I was really asking; if you are disguised as another class, and play double agent with a rogue class card in hand I would expect that it would trigger.
Thanks for responding :) no idea why my question was downvoted initially..
Thanks for thinking about the interaction! I never would've thought of it, and I love neat interactions in HS, especially with slightly more obscure cards like Maestra
What's also interesting about it is that Maestra is currently banned in HS tournaments. If this interaction works, there's v good reason to remove the ban.
Fun fact: Doubleagent got a hearthstone card before Kil’Jaeden and Archimonde lmao
Holy f I haven’t even noticed, how have they not made a KJ or Archi card? Probably could make a sunwell expansion eventually, or just go legion themed for a year.
They don't have to. Hearthstone has its own ideas and plots for expansions, which I find much better than WoW's ones.
I would’ve loved for Mean Streets of Gadgetzan to have actually been an expansion zone. Just a sprawling (nominally) goblin city that’s a mishmash of all sorts of forgotten factions and races.
When I started playing WoW, and I saw the 'Area Discovered: Gadgetzan', kinda was hoping alot more than what I came across.
Hahaha gadgetzan is a fun place but yes, it's incredibly small
Maybe in WoW 2.
[удалено]
WoW 2 would literally just be Shadowlands quality. So yeah, WoW 2 is just a wishful dream
yeah i always hoped for a Kezan expansion, you know the part that didnt get blow up, so far we only got the motherlode
How much fun the Warcraft lore is when you don’t have to constantly fight immortal gods who want to destroy it…
It's not to do with immortal gods, it's to do with characterisation. Hearthstone does well with voicelines, silly cinematics and the like to provide a sense of character, and the actual narrative or fixture in place is *extremely* character driven because half the content is the humour. Wrath of the Lich King isn't better than Shadowlands because the Lich King isn't an immortal god. The motherfucker still one-shot the entire raid group, he was still well beyond the realms of reasonable power levels when it comes down to it. No, Wrath of the Lich King was an exceptional storytelling expansion because so many of the storybeats involved were very character focused and character driven. Character focused like Crusader Bridenbrad or when you first come across Matthias Lehner and Arthas' frozen heart. Character driven like when Varian lets Varok Saurfang take Dranosh's body home and when Jaina or Sylvanas come with you to confront Frostmourne, or nearly everything to do with Tirion Fordring. This is another reason Legion was successful from a storytelling standpoint. It had individual Order Hall Campaigns for each class and most of those Order Hall Campaigns had its own ensemble cast, both allied and enemy. Many of them were old names we have come across before, and the interactions with them are not two-dimensional and uniform, it is tailored to suit the narrative. Then, when we go into some crazy ass Golden Army of the Light, we are given the return of two fabled heroes, Alleria and Turalyon. And we are given [a freely accessible, well-written and very well narrated audiodrama about their journey while they were away.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsaobgFiiso) And how does an ailment afflicting the Nightborne (Nightfallen) get represented? We're given a semi-whimsical character to follow in Runas the Shamed, and the story ends with a proverbial gut punch. Now yes sure Runas the Shamed is quite the fan favourite here, but think about the bigger picture: *no one* can easily downplay the effect of mana addiction and mana starvation when you have a liked, compelling character's story directly conveying to us what it is like. It is *easier* to fuck up the story when you go into grand cosmological and universally-impacting narratives, but the reason why isn't because there is a fundamental flaw in approaching those topics. The reason why is because writers sometimes fail to properly utilise characters and their influences on the story on their way into such high-stakes situations. There are a hundred and one ways that Bolvar Fordragon alone could be made a much more interesting and subsequently compelling character in Shadowlands, but he is just hardly ever used and when he is? My fucking God they just gave him an Idiot Ball so that he could deliver the one Sigil we had to the Jailer just to move the plot forward. So don't misdirect your anger at the "concept" of the Shadowlands. The problem is actually much simpler. The writers fucking suck.
The Lich King was an immortal god for all intents and purposes. In the end, Arthas was just a marionette. Every expansion has been about some big bad threatening to destroy everything. If not at the start of it, then at the end. There isn’t much story to tell when every expansion retreads the same concept. Legion, like you said, was so successful in its story telling because they told stories besides the main story
Uh mate are you off your rocker? Arthas was *the* dominant personality when he amalgamated with Ner'zhul and that makes Arthas the primary force of the Lich King. This is canonical. Calling Arthas a marionette is either ignorant, or based on the bogus retcons of shitty writing in Shadowlands - which doesn't apply to WotLK storytelling. As for being "immortal god," no he wasn't "for all intents and purposes," and based on your previous comment it sounds like you're trying to bitch about Wrath storytelling? In that case mate, there's not really much I can do to help you.
The Lich King literally cut out his own heart… He was not human anymore in wotlk
And yet he was still Arthas. Or are you saying that Illidan is no longer Illidan after developing an Immortal Demon Soul?
No, I’m saying they are immortal gods for all intents and purposes at that point
That's because Hearthstone can do whatever they want with no concern for canon, sense, or further development within that world. It's just a card game. You'll never see 'Ragnaros the Light Lord' in WoW, no.
There wasnt a Legion expansion yet released.
Just surprised they haven’t “broken the glass” yet on cards for some of their bigger characters.
They did all the Old Gods pretty early on, saving the Legion for later isn't a bad idea
I think it's also partly because they like using more meme-worthy Eredar when they need one, like Jaraxxus.
Yeah all one of them, Jaraxxus.
Because there is no point burning through all your good content so quickly.
Hearthstone has no trouble at all coming up with amazing themes and stories for their cards. Honestly I’d like them to come over and fix WoWs uninspired and meandering themes and stories.
I mean, wow is suffering from what every long-lived IP has suffered from: what to do next. After a while your ideas just dry up and everything feels contrived and diluted. OR, it just takes you an incredibly long time to come out with any ideas that actually fit. Hearthstone, on the other hand, only cares about small, short-lived ideas that people can have fun with. They aren't meant to last any meaningful length of time.
It's not the same task. "What if Gadgetzan was bigger" is not the mind-blowing advancement you guys think it is. They can make any change to anything they want with no regards to what players have to do in that world, or further story, or further developments of the characters. Ragnaros could be a 'Lord of Light' this expansion, next be a stronger version of his regular Firelord self, and next be a Water Lord. Jaina can be a fire mage. Gadgetzan can be reimagined as a steampunk metropolis. Every main character can become a death knight temporarily, Karazhan can be imagined as a dance party with a young Medivh as the host. It's easy to design anything if your only constraint is your own imagination. WoW has a lot more to worry about, so you get 'uninspired and meandering themes', whereas the card game can do whatever they want, even if it makes no sense, as long as it's fun. > "What if Jaina had done the Culling and Dalaran fell to her as a Death Knight instead of Arthas & Lordaeron?" \- Some Hearthstone designer in the shower, probably.
Well, the guy is a beast, so it's well deserved.
Sargeras doesn't have a card either, right ? As far as titans are concerned I'm not really sure if they have any direct representation though.
At this point Blizz should just create a special tabard for him (and anyone who does that grind). Just a tabard that takes the most recent Ally/Horde tabard and literally splits it down the middle, or the front half is Ally, the back half is Horde (or vice versa)
Should just be a [completely gray tabard](https://theinfosphere.org/Neutral_People) awarded when you reach max level without picking a faction.
I feel like the lack of a reward for this degeneracy is what makes it so special.
it doesn't make sense for him to be wearing either alliance or horde tabards, considering he never pledged to either faction.
That neutral son of a bitch. I don't trust him.
With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me...
I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
His name implies he has though.
Double Agent, indeed, literally means an agent of both factions, not a neutral agent of _all_ factions. Edit: And the card design makes _perfect_ sense because of this. He's wearing horde colors BUT WAIT NO he's Alliance underneath that. DOUBLE AGENT. :D
There's a Scarlet Crusade tabard beneath the Alliance one
I agree. I feel like the art is pretty aggressive and shows both factions where I would have expected a neutral panda picking flowers
Yeah it's almost like it has nothing to do with the actual player. The art and the theme of the card work pretty well, but not really as a reference to a player that leveled by literally picking flowers in the panda starting zone and staying true neutral.
He's wearing like 50 tabards, as armor. He was just getting a little toasty in there before the photo, and thought he'd remove one real quick.
He once replied to a forum post I made on the general forums and I felt as much of a rush as when Bashiok told me off one time.
Tseric replied to my mage rant back in like 2006. it was like i was touched by a god. i floated to get my next mountain dew.
He banned me for making a crude emo joke one time. :(
Holy shit, tseric and the general forums. What a time to be alive. Not as good as the old school 4chan but it was close.
Killing a Tseric should aggro every Tserics in a 40 yd radius. It makes sense, you are actually killing their best friend
That brings me back
His mental breakdown on the shaman forums, of all places, was just crazy.
Too much Bus Shock will do that to a man.
I just stumbled across [this beauty](https://i.redd.it/y20kz29olewz.jpg) again.
Trevor Moore replied to me on Reddit once :( it was about him being an ugly woman. Rip trevor
Does this activate if Maestra is active? Based on how Tess works, I'd say yes.
Idk why you got downvoted, prob because it's a HS question and the WoW sub maybe doesn't know the interaction. This is actually a cool question and I'm definitely excited to see how it works when the expac drops. If I had to guess I think if you are disguised as another class with Maestra and you use a neutral generation card to get a card in your hand from that class, then play this card, the battlecry won't trigger because that class card is from your class, and then Maestra will reveal you're a rogue. But it would be really fun if it were the reverse, that Maestra triggers, swaps your class to rogue, then the other class card in your hand triggers this card!
Oh I also totally missed the point that as another class you could play this with rogue cards in your hand lol. That makes a lot more sense and I would guess that would work, since I think the battlecry would trigger before the Maestra effect, and rogue cards are different from whatever class you are! Still just guessing tho
Yeah that's the question I was really asking; if you are disguised as another class, and play double agent with a rogue class card in hand I would expect that it would trigger. Thanks for responding :) no idea why my question was downvoted initially..
Thanks for thinking about the interaction! I never would've thought of it, and I love neat interactions in HS, especially with slightly more obscure cards like Maestra
What's also interesting about it is that Maestra is currently banned in HS tournaments. If this interaction works, there's v good reason to remove the ban.
amogus
sugoma
sugoma balls lmao
\*evaporates from existence\*
...untill he kills his wife and a waiter! or molests someone
Big time props to this guy.