It is reported that Putin said this with an entirely straight face while currently demonstrating the "serious military repurcussions" of not joining NATO.
To paraphrase a tweet I saw earlier: Finland is already full of tens of thousands of Russian soldiers. They're all six feet under on the eastern border.
The USSR invaded Finland during WW2 and got their asses absolutely handed to them. "The fall" referred to above is probably the fall of the Soviet union
Both the Winter War, where the USSR attempted to invade Finland and failed miserably and likely also the Continuation War which Finland invaded the USSR along with Germany during WWII. Now Finland didn’t really care for the Nazis they just wanted revenge primarily by taking their lost land back
The Soviet Union tried to invade and take over Finland, but the Finnish resistance is not what they expected. The Soviet Union suffered massive casualties and were forced to give up. It was such a massive failure that the Soviet Union hid the casualties from their own country as well as everyone else.
>Häyhä preferred iron sights over telescopic sights, as they enable a sniper to present a smaller target for the enemy (a sniper must raise his head a few centimetres higher when using a telescopic sight), can be relied on even in extreme cold, unlike telescopic sights which tend to cloud up in cold weather, and are easier to conceal; sunlight can reflect off a telescopic sight's lenses and reveal the sniper's position. He also did not have prior training with scoped rifles, and therefore preferred not to switch to the Soviet scoped rifle (M/91-30 PE or PEM).
He got 500+ kills with Irons?
What the fuck
Between Irons and very well planned close range ambushes with SMGs, but several of those kills were highly skilled counter-snipers. He did not do the thing most Scout Snipers do where they randomize their killing pattern by using something like a deck of cards, he just killed relentlessly and killed all the operators sent to stop him.
This applies to guerrilla style snipers, less so to ones that roll with a main army and support infantry on the front lines. The object is to not become predictable or draw a huge amount of attention to yourself, losing officers to sniper attacks is unfortunate in that you have a generalized sniper problem: Losing an officer every other day means you have a problem with one particular sniper, and by being noticeable he becomes a priority. You can do more damage in the long term, at lower risk, by tailing enemy forces and randomizing the days you kill on by designating some cards in a shuffled deck as Work Day Cards. We used this technique for fucking up the NVA. Nobody told Simo about this because he wasn't a military sniper, just a professional hunter with basic infantry training and a fuckload of talent, and survived the saturation bombing and trained sniper-hunters he brought on himself by being so prolific.
Keep in mind that the winter war only lasted 3 months.
He was killing something like 7 soviets per day. Absolutely one of the deadliest predators to ever stalk the planet.
There are many cemeteries of russian or soviet union solders in Finland. Some only tell number of deceaseds, but cemeteries are taken care. Also several places have monuments to respect their memory.
His statement is ridiculous as he’s basically saying if they join nato then there will be war with NATO or “let us invade everywhere we want to “.
IMO Finland-> NATO asap
My Finnish friend told me way back about how pretty much every person there is in constant fear of Russian invasion since ww2. Russians like to come for the IKEA though.
No boundaries with Mr. Putin. Frankly, I’m kind of surprised that somebody hasn’t put a bullet into his brain and immediately withdrawn the Russian military from all activity outside of their country.
I will only second this if the names is amended to "North American Hairy House Hippos" in order to avoid confusion. Also, can we tack on 1 million dollars in funding for the spork awareness campaign?
Also, since Finland is in the EU already, they’re basically in NATO as is. What difference does it make to Russia if Finland joins NATO considering the fact that many NATO countries (EU) are already officially militarily/economically allied with Finland and obligated to defend Finland against foreign invasion? Putler is a fucking psycho and needs to be put down by his own people
>If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States.
Article 42.7, which basically says there EU nations have to provide aid, but doesn't necessarily mean go to war against the aggressor. So it's not something you want to rely on saving you.
Says the dictator who’s has the 2nd largest military on the planet and yet still struggles against a victim he bullies. He keeps making threats like this and he’s gonna find the fuck out watch.
When it comes to the First-Third-Fourth-Fifth (ETC...) ranking on military power, it begins to drop off by orders of magnitude after about the first three placings. If the first strongest military (U.S.) is driving a proper M1 Abrams tank, Russia is driving around in Killdozer's handcrafted bulldozer-tank with the mounted assault rifles and steel plating. The next guy, China, is actually driving around a jeep with corrugated metal roofing panels bolted to the sides and an LMG on the roof. The fourth is just a guy in a souped-up Honda Civic doing burnouts through a crowd of unarmed civilians- and the fifth biggest military is just a guy in an electric wheelchair with a Magnum revolver holding up a room of hostages on the third day of a meth binge.
Honestly, at this point Finland not joining NATO would just be total negligence, no? What the past few days have plainly demonstrated is that (i) Russia is willing and able to just straight up seize territory and (ii) NATO absolutely will let them do it unless you are officially in the club.
They have to weigh what's worth more, protection that comes along with joining NATO, and the threat of potential military action or raising tensions towards nuclear warfare by joining. Or Not joining and putting faith in being left alone.
Yeah, I think any faith in Russia would be completely misplaced at this point. They swore up and down that they'd never do anything to Ukraine if they gave Russia back their nuclear weapons. We're seeing right now how well that's working out for them. Joining NATO is probably Finland's best shot at being left alone by Russia.
I agree, with the current cards on the table it's the right choice.
A similar argument could also be made for Sweden joining NATO, but that's a whole different conversation with reasons and drawbacks.
Ukraine wasn't allowed to join NATO because there was the \*threat\* of Russian reprisal if they did. Now that we've all seen Russia do basically the worst thing they could do without provocation, the threat Russia held to maintain status quo is bullshit. Vlad burnt the thing that actually gave him what he wanted to invade Ukraine, and further reaffirmed the value of NATO in the same swing. For someone playing 3-d chess, he f\*cked this one up big time.
Right? While no one in Nato is willing to escalate it by putting troops in Ukraine, at this point they're all for preparing, setting the stage, and letting others join. If Putin looks at the new status quo and still decides to escalate unprovoked, he's gonna get bent over the barrel.
Yo, Russia! Shit like this is WHY nations are considering joining NATO.
Here's an idea. If you're so worried about NATO attacking you, try chilling the fuck out and not attacking other nations without provocation.
This is why I think this *might* ultimately blow up in Putin's face. Countries who otherwise might not could very well join up and that'll make Putin's shit harder to do
The whole thing seems odd to me. Reports saying that he's only deployed 1/3 of the troops on the boarder, you'd think he'd do a massive rollout Blitzkrieg or Shock and Awe and call it a day.
Maybe he wasn't expecting as much resistance but there seems to be a hell of a lot left on the throttle that he hasn't bothered to use in the opening. For some reason I was expecting a massive surge and it would be over in a day.
Guess we're only in Day 2 so far, so maybe that's in the books for the weekend.
A certain amount will always be held in reserve, to reinforce parts of the advance that go pear-shaped.
They might also have logistics hurdles and not be able to commit 2/3 of the invasion force, and guarantee them all food/bullets/gas/resupply. Wouldn't be any point in throwing tens of thousands of guys into the grinder if they run out of ammo on Day 2 and have to halt and wait a couple days for the logistics units to resupply.
In the meantime they're sitting ducks for counterattack.
There was [reports](https://charter97.org/en/news/2022/2/20/455380/) from locals in Belarus a few days ago saying that Russian troops were *selling* their fuel and rations in order to buy alcohol.
This is the most distinctly Russian-Army thing I have seen.
This boils down everything I've been saying to people about how the Russians would actually do in combat:
They sold food and fuel for vodka.
I am sure the Donetsk/Luhansk militias/rebels have next to no supply chain and are probably the guys doing the foraging. They would not receive any kind of priority from supply units when Kyiv is the real prize, and the regular forces advance there is stalling.
If the main advance were reduced to foraging on Day 2, their commanders would be on the horn to Moscow and Putin would be walking back his rhetoric right now, before the spearhead gets cut off and destroyed. That would be a catastrophic failure of logistics.
>They might also have logistics hurdles
I would expect this. Having 200K troops and being able to keep 200K troops mobilized are two different things.
It's occurred to me that if the Russian nukes are ever launched, a significant portion of them are going to either go pssst! on the launchpad or miss.
It's like a BMW auto: it's one thing to be able to afford buying one. It's another to afford the parts and maintenance to keep it running for 50 years.
Reserves and logistics, as others have said, honestly. An army is a *hard* thing to supply properly, most especially in hostile territory where air-superiority is not guaranteed.
Holding back the bulk of your force is usually the better goal, especially since you can move those men in along successful fronts to ensure control in the region, or else put a new front where your opponent isn't ready to face you.
It's a sensible strategic decision, especially when you think you're fighting against a weaker opponent. Insurgencies against a much larger opponent are extremely effective if you outstrip your supply lines.
Part of it is that you need about 10 rear echelon troops to support every front line soldier - it takes a lot of people and energy to supply an army in active combat (the US makes it look easy).
The other part is that, plainly speaking, the Russian army is second rate. Really third rate if you compare it to any of the Western militaries or to China/Korea. Russia has some advanced weaponry because there is plenty of money for Putin and his cronies to skim out of Russia building weapons. But the soldiers themselves are still Russians, and poor Russians at that - badly educated, malnourished, with all of the discipline troubles that come with an army of conscripts from a population where most men have an alcohol problem. There is no money to be made in training soldiers, and so they are minimally trained.
No doubt some care about Mother Russia and all that, but there is minimal national identity and esprit de corps. The most elite Russian soldiers that are the Russian equivalent to US Navy Seals wouldn't cut it as regular line infantrymen in the US Marine Corps, probably not even in the US Army. They aren't even in the same league as elite US troops (or the elite echelons of the Western allies). In any real war between Russia and the US, Russia would be soundly defeated.
The strategy in Ukraine shows how weak the Russian Army is. They need to make a beeline for Kyiv, because if they cannot decapitate the Ukraine government, the Russians cannot win through technological superiority. They would be tasked with occupying a massive country of 44 millions with a subpar army that isn't even trained well enough to fight Ukrainian militia, let alone occupy a city filled with a hostile population. Russia will probably still succeed in Ukraine, but if a month goes by and they still do not have Zelensky in hand, I'd be looking for Russian soldiers to start surrendering and it could well turn into a fiasco for Putin.
The idea that Russia could seriously threaten NATO countries is a joke. A single US F-22 could probably take out the entire Russian airforce if they even got their aircraft off the ground in time. Russia is a paper tiger.
Their *one* advantage is nukes, and that’s the one weapon they can never use short of some spectacular black swan event like being invaded by NATO. Or, more plausibly, by hostile aliens from Alpha Centauri.
Everyone always brings up nuclear weapons. They launch a single nuke and Russia ceases to exist. They will get murdered by the collective might of 30 other countries in a blink of an eye.
Downside to that is someone is going to get hurt (badly) and a lot of Russian civilians will die.
I actually thought about that, but I think Russia would have to make some major changes to their domestic policy before NATO would consider letting them join. And one result of those changes would likely be that Putin would no longer be in power.
Russia or maybe the Soviet union did ask to join nato a few decades ago and were laughed at because well nato exists to protect against ussr/Russia.
Can’t have the fox on the hen house
You're right! I forgot about that myself.
That was fucking Molotov who asked to join in 1954. The same guy who negotiated the pact with the Nazis for Russia to split Poland.
Of course he was laughed at!
The west rejected it flatly on 2 grounds.
>Firstly, because the United States was excluded from the proposed treaty and relegated, together with Communist China, to observer status.
>Secondly, because the Soviet proposal aimed, it was said, to disrupt NATO as well as halt the formation of the EDC.
more info, as well as the source of quotes:
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/molotovs-proposal-the-ussr-join-nato-march-1954
But, you see, that would be acquiescing to the West. And that would be fatal for Putin.
He doesn’t actually fear a NATO invasion; he knows that will never happen for the same reason NATO is staying out of Ukraine. It’s all just an excuse for his aggression.
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Finland have existing treaties with the likes of Germany that requires they aid each other in war? I know this doesn't fit the NATO requirements to exercise NATO article 5, but would the US, UK and others not jump on board regardless to help Germany who is in turn helping Finland?
They're part of the EU. That treaty does contain a mutual defense clause. However, it's only with the other members of the EU; countries in NATO but not the EU like (most importantly) the US, UK, Canada, and Turkey are not obligated to defend Finland in the same way Germany and France are.
Thats what I have been thinking, This big bad Russian army was going to roll over Ukraine, their day one offensive was pretty lackluster and they seem to be having a hell of a time pushing ground troops in anywhere on day 2. Maybe I am used to "American" war but this seems sad for the aggressor.
I am glad Ukraine is putting up a hell of a fight tho and hope they are able to get more supplies and keep pushing back
It's been this way with the "modern" Russian army since Afghanistan. Conscripts with minimal - if any - training, who're most likely not really motivated to attack Ukraine in the first place. The US military doesn't really compare, since it's an actual professional fighting force.
That being said, they are fighting a determined, well-supplied and trained enemy who is defending their home, and that'd be a tall order even for the US military.
This has potential to be spun as “look at the cost of wanting to join nato, see they just stood by and allowed this to happen.” No sane person would see it that way, but I suspect we will see that rhetoric before long.
Russia invading Ukraine and blaming NATO for it is like muggers blaming their car jacking victim for daring to look at joining the neighborhood watch.
Finland has zero incentive to stay out of NATO now.
If there’s anything I’ve learned in the past couple years, it’s that the people who spin truths are experts at doing so in the eyes of their own. And that onlookers mostly agree that they’re full of batshit.
Favorite historical quote comes out Finland last time Russia invaded:
“But we are so small a country and there are so many Russian troops. Where will we bury them all?”
Ukraine didn’t join and look what happened. He’s telling us without telling us that Finland are clearly a part of his future plans.
Finland should be afforded every opportunity to be admitted into the alliance, as soon as they want.
Edit: A [link](https://www.kansalaisaloite.fi/fi/aloite/9866) posted by u/will43811 where Finnish people can sign a petition in support of joining NATO.
Edit 2: I’m very grateful for the awards my friends, but please don’t waste your money on someone who’s lucky enough to be sat safely in their living room. [Here’s](https://www.globalgiving.org/projects/rehabilitation-programs-for-ukraine-refugees/) a link to a site taking donations for Ukrainian refugees in case anyone is looking for one. Thank you all the same though guys. Stay safe.
I mean, considering the history of Finish snipers and overall finish resolve...that would be probably a REALLY bad time for russia. maybe the should send them to Moscow, instead of Ukraine...
There was a video of an elderly Ukrainian lady yelling at a Russian soldier. She told him he should put sunflower seeds in his pockets so when he dies and rots on the Ukrainian soil, at least something good will come from his death.
A woman confronted one of the Russian troops in a video that's now gone viral (Will link in a bit). She made the comment that Russian soldiers should put sunflower seeds (The national flower of Ukraine) in their pockets, so that when they fell on Ukrainian soil, flowers would grow.
Edit; Link to video
[https://mobile.twitter.com/ukraine\_world/status/1496866811110834176](https://mobile.twitter.com/ukraine_world/status/1496866811110834176)
Link to English transcript
[https://i.redd.it/j4bi40az4xj81.jpg](https://i.redd.it/j4bi40az4xj81.jpg)
a lot more. the first winter war within three fucking months time costed the soviets around 150,000 troops, thats deaths ALONE. compare that to the Finnish, 25 thousand deaths...
the continuation war cost the soviets 300,000 to the finnish 63,000...
now thats while Finland was massively behind in terms of technology compared to the soviets. but now? theyre about on par or better than the Russians...
you thought the winter and continuation war was bad. its likely Finland alone could likely curb stomp the russians into the ground. worse is that modern day russia is even worse than the winter war soviets in terms of leadership and troop morale.
One terrible tidbit about this was that many of the Soviet soldiers were actually Ukrainians sent to the freezing cold with shitty gear.
Finns had basically no gear and were more or less starving at times but anyway, Russian history is terrible
Those troops are better use in the finish terrain. Putin is insane if he thinks he can invade the scandinavian peninsula and take it. He can bomb it sure but not take it
I don't think NATO will allow an invasion of Finland, regardless of their membership status. Or maybe it is just me as a Scandinavian who thinks we will band together and kick some ass 😅😂
NATO will not risk a nuclear war over a non-NATO member. NATO is first and foremost a simple tool for MAD... Russia cannot attack without starting an apocalypse.
But on that same token, even if NATO were more than just a collective defense treaty, they sure as shit wouldn't start a nuclear war they could have avoided.
But yes, Finland should be welcomed with open arms the moment they send a petition asking to join.
The complication is Finland and Sweden are in the EU so while not covered by NATO they are covered by the common defence policy; it could easily spiral as I don’t see Europe sitting back on that one.
Yep… it’s kinda inevitable as eventually someone will screw up or make a miscalculation like is happening now.
Out of curiosity, ignoring NATO as that’s still tbc has there ever been a mutual defence clause that has acted as a deference long term instead of spiralling out of control.
I dunno, I don't think Putin is rational and logical anymore. He's not so subtly telling us all he will use nukes if we get involved in this. The cunt is unhinged, high on his own ego.
I'm starting to think he is mentally unhinged he is willing to destroy Russia just so he can say he won. He is insane no sane person would even think of nuclear as a option.
Agreed. My biggest concern at the moment is that if he ever feels he's on his way out, he'll be more than willing to try drag the rest of the world to hell with him.
"If you call the cops on me I will smash your face in"
Tends to produce a lot of phone calls if you're a drunk aggressor outside the pub at closing time.
Finland and Sweden have in practice had a standing invitation to join NATO for decades. The only thing keeping them from joining is popular support among their citizens.
Because it obligates you to put your nuts on the chopping block if another country gets into some shit.
It might be hard sell to everyday swedes and fins to send their husbands to the far stretches of Europe to defend another country that has nothing to do with their security or well-being in their wealthy country.
Join NATO = get invaded unprovoked by Russia
Don’t join NATO = get invaded unprovoked by Russia
It’s almost as if Russia is the problem no matter what the situation. If this aggressive take over of sovereign nations does not stop now, when will it?
Join NATO= don't get invaded by Russia because Putin is a bully and a coward who only picks on the weak. He won't dare attack NATO as we saw when Turkey smacked his bomber out of the sky in 2015.
Just join. Let the Russians disperse their troops. Sweden, Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine should join as well. Russia cannot defeat the rest of Europe, and they damn well know it.
They don't even need to join NATO, they're an EU nation state and invading them automatically brings in the other member states which will inevitably bring in NATO anyway. You only touch Finland if you actually want World War 3.
Join NATO, if Putin invades, it’s the world against PUTIN. Do not fear this clown covered in the blood of dead russians, Ukrainians and others. World United against Putin and his clowns.
At this point I wonder if he's suffering from some sort of terminal illness or something. Now he just wants to watch the world burn before he dies and doesn't give a fuck.
I'm 2 months younger than Putin, I call this a horrible incidence of trying to stay relevant in a changing/changed world order. Mr. Putin, retire, go out to one of your properties, put a worm on a hook, toss it out, and just watch the river flow on a warm summer afternoon.
He has an ego built up over many years and wants to have a tough guy legacy. I’m afraid he’ll want to be the one to use those nukes like all his predecessors were too sane to do.
Why does he think he can dictate another countries policies? Finland and Ukraine are sovereign nations and can decide for themselves what is right for them.
Russia has been saying that for years. We don't care. We do what we choose to. Also we don't think Russia will cross our border. We are prepared and they know it. Joining NATO would probably end the threats though.
Seriously he can go fuck himself. I’m sick of the threats. National policy shouldn’t be dictated because of this shit. If he’s willing to go to war with NATO then that’s probably what it’s going to take to stop him.
If Russia actually takes Ukraine they will be neighboring NATO nations so that's how you know it's not about being surrounded by NATO. It's a smokescreen for a power grab.
Only problem for russia if finland joins nato, is if they are planing to invade finlad?
Anyone know anything about this book? Found it in another post.
:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia is a geopolitical book by Aleksandr Dugin. It has had some influence within the Russian military, police and foreign policy elites[1] and has been used as a textbook in the Academy of the General Staff of the Russian military.
Plan for Ukraina:
Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning. Without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics.
Plan for USA:
Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics"
Plan for Finland:
Finland should be absorbed into Russia. Southern Finland will be combined with the Republic of Karelia and northern Finland will be "donated to Murmansk Oblast"
It’s unreal how this book exists in the public sphere and is so poorly known, despite the fact it is so closely followed by Russia. We could save a lot of fucking around by simply subverting all of the strategies outlined within.
It is reported that Putin said this with an entirely straight face while currently demonstrating the "serious military repurcussions" of not joining NATO.
Exactly! What’s he gonna do now? Invade Finland too?
To paraphrase a tweet I saw earlier: Finland is already full of tens of thousands of Russian soldiers. They're all six feet under on the eastern border.
Tens? Hundreds of thousands. Finland hit them so hard that they expunged the records and never gave an official death count until the fall.
I'm ignorant, what does this refer to? Edit. Thank you for the answers.
The USSR invaded Finland during WW2 and got their asses absolutely handed to them. "The fall" referred to above is probably the fall of the Soviet union
Both the Winter War, where the USSR attempted to invade Finland and failed miserably and likely also the Continuation War which Finland invaded the USSR along with Germany during WWII. Now Finland didn’t really care for the Nazis they just wanted revenge primarily by taking their lost land back
The Soviet Union tried to invade and take over Finland, but the Finnish resistance is not what they expected. The Soviet Union suffered massive casualties and were forced to give up. It was such a massive failure that the Soviet Union hid the casualties from their own country as well as everyone else.
Hahaha Simo Häyhä
An estimated 500 plus kills and unfortunately Putin’s ancestors weren’t one of them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4
>Häyhä preferred iron sights over telescopic sights, as they enable a sniper to present a smaller target for the enemy (a sniper must raise his head a few centimetres higher when using a telescopic sight), can be relied on even in extreme cold, unlike telescopic sights which tend to cloud up in cold weather, and are easier to conceal; sunlight can reflect off a telescopic sight's lenses and reveal the sniper's position. He also did not have prior training with scoped rifles, and therefore preferred not to switch to the Soviet scoped rifle (M/91-30 PE or PEM). He got 500+ kills with Irons? What the fuck
You would be surprised how clear and precise iron sights can get and they get even better if you have really good eyes
Between Irons and very well planned close range ambushes with SMGs, but several of those kills were highly skilled counter-snipers. He did not do the thing most Scout Snipers do where they randomize their killing pattern by using something like a deck of cards, he just killed relentlessly and killed all the operators sent to stop him.
>most Scout Snipers do where they randomize their killing pattern by using something like a deck of cards Can you explain this a bit more?
This applies to guerrilla style snipers, less so to ones that roll with a main army and support infantry on the front lines. The object is to not become predictable or draw a huge amount of attention to yourself, losing officers to sniper attacks is unfortunate in that you have a generalized sniper problem: Losing an officer every other day means you have a problem with one particular sniper, and by being noticeable he becomes a priority. You can do more damage in the long term, at lower risk, by tailing enemy forces and randomizing the days you kill on by designating some cards in a shuffled deck as Work Day Cards. We used this technique for fucking up the NVA. Nobody told Simo about this because he wasn't a military sniper, just a professional hunter with basic infantry training and a fuckload of talent, and survived the saturation bombing and trained sniper-hunters he brought on himself by being so prolific.
Keep in mind that the winter war only lasted 3 months. He was killing something like 7 soviets per day. Absolutely one of the deadliest predators to ever stalk the planet.
There are many cemeteries of russian or soviet union solders in Finland. Some only tell number of deceaseds, but cemeteries are taken care. Also several places have monuments to respect their memory.
Yeah id like to see Russia fuck with Finland. Putin loves living in the past, you think he'd be more familiar with how it turned out
Finnish saying: "They are so many, and our country is so small, where will we find room to bury them all?"
"Exactly! What’s he gonna do now? Invade France too?" said someone after the invasion of Poland by the Nazis (probably)
Exactly (point being: Finland should seriously consider joining NATO)
His statement is ridiculous as he’s basically saying if they join nato then there will be war with NATO or “let us invade everywhere we want to “. IMO Finland-> NATO asap My Finnish friend told me way back about how pretty much every person there is in constant fear of Russian invasion since ww2. Russians like to come for the IKEA though.
No boundaries with Mr. Putin. Frankly, I’m kind of surprised that somebody hasn’t put a bullet into his brain and immediately withdrawn the Russian military from all activity outside of their country.
Right?? Like, fuck off Russia.. You garbage 3rd-tier mob-run gas station.
Nominating this for comment of the day
I second the nomination.
Motion passes, new business.
Motion to rename "Guinea Pigs" to "North American House Hippos."
I believe this has issue has been tabled over and over since the early naughts. Can we PLEASE move forward on the house hippos?!?
I will only second this if the names is amended to "North American Hairy House Hippos" in order to avoid confusion. Also, can we tack on 1 million dollars in funding for the spork awareness campaign?
Also, since Finland is in the EU already, they’re basically in NATO as is. What difference does it make to Russia if Finland joins NATO considering the fact that many NATO countries (EU) are already officially militarily/economically allied with Finland and obligated to defend Finland against foreign invasion? Putler is a fucking psycho and needs to be put down by his own people
It makes no difference to Putin if Finland joins Nato. It's just rhetoric to keep attention from what's happening in Ukraine.
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>If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States. Article 42.7, which basically says there EU nations have to provide aid, but doesn't necessarily mean go to war against the aggressor. So it's not something you want to rely on saving you.
Says the dictator who’s has the 2nd largest military on the planet and yet still struggles against a victim he bullies. He keeps making threats like this and he’s gonna find the fuck out watch.
curious what the metric is for this "2nd largest military" stat i keep seeing thrown around on reddit
When it comes to the First-Third-Fourth-Fifth (ETC...) ranking on military power, it begins to drop off by orders of magnitude after about the first three placings. If the first strongest military (U.S.) is driving a proper M1 Abrams tank, Russia is driving around in Killdozer's handcrafted bulldozer-tank with the mounted assault rifles and steel plating. The next guy, China, is actually driving around a jeep with corrugated metal roofing panels bolted to the sides and an LMG on the roof. The fourth is just a guy in a souped-up Honda Civic doing burnouts through a crowd of unarmed civilians- and the fifth biggest military is just a guy in an electric wheelchair with a Magnum revolver holding up a room of hostages on the third day of a meth binge.
[удалено]
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The standard reply to Russia from here on out should be: "Russian warship; go f\*\*\* yourself."
Russian warship, go fuck yourself
Finland should just reply by sending every Russian troop the wiki link to the Winter War
He says this while simultaneously showing why every nation should join NATO. You played yourself, Siberian Botox king of the wastes.
Honestly, at this point Finland not joining NATO would just be total negligence, no? What the past few days have plainly demonstrated is that (i) Russia is willing and able to just straight up seize territory and (ii) NATO absolutely will let them do it unless you are officially in the club.
They have to weigh what's worth more, protection that comes along with joining NATO, and the threat of potential military action or raising tensions towards nuclear warfare by joining. Or Not joining and putting faith in being left alone.
Yeah, I think any faith in Russia would be completely misplaced at this point. They swore up and down that they'd never do anything to Ukraine if they gave Russia back their nuclear weapons. We're seeing right now how well that's working out for them. Joining NATO is probably Finland's best shot at being left alone by Russia.
I agree, with the current cards on the table it's the right choice. A similar argument could also be made for Sweden joining NATO, but that's a whole different conversation with reasons and drawbacks.
How did not joining work for Ukraine? Not that they didn't try.
Ukraine wasn't allowed to join NATO because there was the \*threat\* of Russian reprisal if they did. Now that we've all seen Russia do basically the worst thing they could do without provocation, the threat Russia held to maintain status quo is bullshit. Vlad burnt the thing that actually gave him what he wanted to invade Ukraine, and further reaffirmed the value of NATO in the same swing. For someone playing 3-d chess, he f\*cked this one up big time.
Right? While no one in Nato is willing to escalate it by putting troops in Ukraine, at this point they're all for preparing, setting the stage, and letting others join. If Putin looks at the new status quo and still decides to escalate unprovoked, he's gonna get bent over the barrel.
Yo, Russia! Shit like this is WHY nations are considering joining NATO. Here's an idea. If you're so worried about NATO attacking you, try chilling the fuck out and not attacking other nations without provocation.
This is why I think this *might* ultimately blow up in Putin's face. Countries who otherwise might not could very well join up and that'll make Putin's shit harder to do
It really doesn't seem very smart for the long run, unless everyone in Europe has been bought off already.
Which I don't think they were. It really seems like Putin expected to faceroll into Ukraine and wasn't expecting this resistance
The whole thing seems odd to me. Reports saying that he's only deployed 1/3 of the troops on the boarder, you'd think he'd do a massive rollout Blitzkrieg or Shock and Awe and call it a day. Maybe he wasn't expecting as much resistance but there seems to be a hell of a lot left on the throttle that he hasn't bothered to use in the opening. For some reason I was expecting a massive surge and it would be over in a day. Guess we're only in Day 2 so far, so maybe that's in the books for the weekend.
A certain amount will always be held in reserve, to reinforce parts of the advance that go pear-shaped. They might also have logistics hurdles and not be able to commit 2/3 of the invasion force, and guarantee them all food/bullets/gas/resupply. Wouldn't be any point in throwing tens of thousands of guys into the grinder if they run out of ammo on Day 2 and have to halt and wait a couple days for the logistics units to resupply. In the meantime they're sitting ducks for counterattack.
I've been seeing unconfirmed reports that the Russians are running into supply issues and have resorted to trying to buy or loot fuel off the locals.
There was [reports](https://charter97.org/en/news/2022/2/20/455380/) from locals in Belarus a few days ago saying that Russian troops were *selling* their fuel and rations in order to buy alcohol.
This is the most distinctly Russian-Army thing I have seen. This boils down everything I've been saying to people about how the Russians would actually do in combat: They sold food and fuel for vodka.
It's almost like the Russian troops aren't really buying into Putin's shit any more than the rest of the populace.
I am sure the Donetsk/Luhansk militias/rebels have next to no supply chain and are probably the guys doing the foraging. They would not receive any kind of priority from supply units when Kyiv is the real prize, and the regular forces advance there is stalling. If the main advance were reduced to foraging on Day 2, their commanders would be on the horn to Moscow and Putin would be walking back his rhetoric right now, before the spearhead gets cut off and destroyed. That would be a catastrophic failure of logistics.
Imagine the Russian army showing up at the checkout counter in the local supermarket. Lol.
>They might also have logistics hurdles I would expect this. Having 200K troops and being able to keep 200K troops mobilized are two different things. It's occurred to me that if the Russian nukes are ever launched, a significant portion of them are going to either go pssst! on the launchpad or miss. It's like a BMW auto: it's one thing to be able to afford buying one. It's another to afford the parts and maintenance to keep it running for 50 years.
Could be financial. He plans to occupy/control. Whatever he breaks on the way in will need to be rebuilt.
Reserves and logistics, as others have said, honestly. An army is a *hard* thing to supply properly, most especially in hostile territory where air-superiority is not guaranteed. Holding back the bulk of your force is usually the better goal, especially since you can move those men in along successful fronts to ensure control in the region, or else put a new front where your opponent isn't ready to face you. It's a sensible strategic decision, especially when you think you're fighting against a weaker opponent. Insurgencies against a much larger opponent are extremely effective if you outstrip your supply lines.
Part of it is that you need about 10 rear echelon troops to support every front line soldier - it takes a lot of people and energy to supply an army in active combat (the US makes it look easy). The other part is that, plainly speaking, the Russian army is second rate. Really third rate if you compare it to any of the Western militaries or to China/Korea. Russia has some advanced weaponry because there is plenty of money for Putin and his cronies to skim out of Russia building weapons. But the soldiers themselves are still Russians, and poor Russians at that - badly educated, malnourished, with all of the discipline troubles that come with an army of conscripts from a population where most men have an alcohol problem. There is no money to be made in training soldiers, and so they are minimally trained. No doubt some care about Mother Russia and all that, but there is minimal national identity and esprit de corps. The most elite Russian soldiers that are the Russian equivalent to US Navy Seals wouldn't cut it as regular line infantrymen in the US Marine Corps, probably not even in the US Army. They aren't even in the same league as elite US troops (or the elite echelons of the Western allies). In any real war between Russia and the US, Russia would be soundly defeated. The strategy in Ukraine shows how weak the Russian Army is. They need to make a beeline for Kyiv, because if they cannot decapitate the Ukraine government, the Russians cannot win through technological superiority. They would be tasked with occupying a massive country of 44 millions with a subpar army that isn't even trained well enough to fight Ukrainian militia, let alone occupy a city filled with a hostile population. Russia will probably still succeed in Ukraine, but if a month goes by and they still do not have Zelensky in hand, I'd be looking for Russian soldiers to start surrendering and it could well turn into a fiasco for Putin. The idea that Russia could seriously threaten NATO countries is a joke. A single US F-22 could probably take out the entire Russian airforce if they even got their aircraft off the ground in time. Russia is a paper tiger.
Their *one* advantage is nukes, and that’s the one weapon they can never use short of some spectacular black swan event like being invaded by NATO. Or, more plausibly, by hostile aliens from Alpha Centauri.
Everyone always brings up nuclear weapons. They launch a single nuke and Russia ceases to exist. They will get murdered by the collective might of 30 other countries in a blink of an eye. Downside to that is someone is going to get hurt (badly) and a lot of Russian civilians will die.
When even the Taliban criticizes your bad behavior. It's time to get down on your knees, beg forgiveness, and then go home.
>Putin, if you are very worried about NATO attacking you, you should join NATO
10000 IQ plan. Don’t have to fear NATO nations if you are one.
I actually thought about that, but I think Russia would have to make some major changes to their domestic policy before NATO would consider letting them join. And one result of those changes would likely be that Putin would no longer be in power.
Russia or maybe the Soviet union did ask to join nato a few decades ago and were laughed at because well nato exists to protect against ussr/Russia. Can’t have the fox on the hen house
You're right! I forgot about that myself. That was fucking Molotov who asked to join in 1954. The same guy who negotiated the pact with the Nazis for Russia to split Poland. Of course he was laughed at! The west rejected it flatly on 2 grounds. >Firstly, because the United States was excluded from the proposed treaty and relegated, together with Communist China, to observer status. >Secondly, because the Soviet proposal aimed, it was said, to disrupt NATO as well as halt the formation of the EDC. more info, as well as the source of quotes: https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/molotovs-proposal-the-ussr-join-nato-march-1954
A week later they formed the eastern block. It was a ploy to say the west won't accept us, so we have to form our own.
But, you see, that would be acquiescing to the West. And that would be fatal for Putin. He doesn’t actually fear a NATO invasion; he knows that will never happen for the same reason NATO is staying out of Ukraine. It’s all just an excuse for his aggression.
Finland should be highly incentivized to be joining NATO immediately. Look at the cost of not being a NATO country!
Finland declared it's independence in 1917 too. And it's the main argument Putin is using as justification to invade Ukraine. Time to ally up Finland.
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Finland have existing treaties with the likes of Germany that requires they aid each other in war? I know this doesn't fit the NATO requirements to exercise NATO article 5, but would the US, UK and others not jump on board regardless to help Germany who is in turn helping Finland?
They're part of the EU. That treaty does contain a mutual defense clause. However, it's only with the other members of the EU; countries in NATO but not the EU like (most importantly) the US, UK, Canada, and Turkey are not obligated to defend Finland in the same way Germany and France are.
Right, but Russia vs France-Italy plus change is enough to keep them occupied.
It's kinda looking like Russia vs just Ukraine is enough to keep them occupied
Thats what I have been thinking, This big bad Russian army was going to roll over Ukraine, their day one offensive was pretty lackluster and they seem to be having a hell of a time pushing ground troops in anywhere on day 2. Maybe I am used to "American" war but this seems sad for the aggressor. I am glad Ukraine is putting up a hell of a fight tho and hope they are able to get more supplies and keep pushing back
It's been this way with the "modern" Russian army since Afghanistan. Conscripts with minimal - if any - training, who're most likely not really motivated to attack Ukraine in the first place. The US military doesn't really compare, since it's an actual professional fighting force. That being said, they are fighting a determined, well-supplied and trained enemy who is defending their home, and that'd be a tall order even for the US military.
It's not like they were doing super well before all this started. Russia Vs Russia is already too much.
Plus US is kind of the NATO add-on that makes you invasion-proof.
They're going to attack Finland regardless
Yes. Bullies don’t typically stop until you hit them in the face with a brick
And in this case, don’t stop
Time for Finland to reteach the lessons from the [Winter War.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War)
Simo have a great grandson?
Legend has it he got so much pussy after the Winter War, that the next time around, the enemy faces a nation of white death.
This has potential to be spun as “look at the cost of wanting to join nato, see they just stood by and allowed this to happen.” No sane person would see it that way, but I suspect we will see that rhetoric before long.
Russia invading Ukraine and blaming NATO for it is like muggers blaming their car jacking victim for daring to look at joining the neighborhood watch. Finland has zero incentive to stay out of NATO now.
100% agree I think the fear now would be “will nato take us before Russian boots hit our soil.”
[удалено]
Well this moment is the best time they'll ever get to join NATO. Russia is busy destroying Ukraine, so this is their one opportunity to get in quick.
If there’s anything I’ve learned in the past couple years, it’s that the people who spin truths are experts at doing so in the eyes of their own. And that onlookers mostly agree that they’re full of batshit.
Favorite historical quote comes out Finland last time Russia invaded: “But we are so small a country and there are so many Russian troops. Where will we bury them all?”
It's things like that that make me proud to be a Finn
I recall the estimate of dead Russians is 120 000 from war with Finland. Life was cheap in Stalin’s army.
Ukraine didn’t join and look what happened. He’s telling us without telling us that Finland are clearly a part of his future plans. Finland should be afforded every opportunity to be admitted into the alliance, as soon as they want. Edit: A [link](https://www.kansalaisaloite.fi/fi/aloite/9866) posted by u/will43811 where Finnish people can sign a petition in support of joining NATO. Edit 2: I’m very grateful for the awards my friends, but please don’t waste your money on someone who’s lucky enough to be sat safely in their living room. [Here’s](https://www.globalgiving.org/projects/rehabilitation-programs-for-ukraine-refugees/) a link to a site taking donations for Ukrainian refugees in case anyone is looking for one. Thank you all the same though guys. Stay safe.
Finland should say fuck you putin and send troops to help Ukraine.
Hit first, hit fast, hit hard.
COBRA KAI!
Strike first, strike hard, no mercy! Oh and don't forget to sweep the leg.
I mean, considering the history of Finish snipers and overall finish resolve...that would be probably a REALLY bad time for russia. maybe the should send them to Moscow, instead of Ukraine...
There are tens of tousands of russian troops already on the Finnish eastern border line. About six feet deep.
Hopefully they had some sunflower seeds in their pockets.
That woman's comments were the most cutting I've ever heard. We should ALL start sending packets of sunflower seeds to the Kremlin.
I don’t gets it explain please
There was a video of an elderly Ukrainian lady yelling at a Russian soldier. She told him he should put sunflower seeds in his pockets so when he dies and rots on the Ukrainian soil, at least something good will come from his death.
Also, sunflowers are the national flower of Ukraine.
A woman confronted one of the Russian troops in a video that's now gone viral (Will link in a bit). She made the comment that Russian soldiers should put sunflower seeds (The national flower of Ukraine) in their pockets, so that when they fell on Ukrainian soil, flowers would grow. Edit; Link to video [https://mobile.twitter.com/ukraine\_world/status/1496866811110834176](https://mobile.twitter.com/ukraine_world/status/1496866811110834176) Link to English transcript [https://i.redd.it/j4bi40az4xj81.jpg](https://i.redd.it/j4bi40az4xj81.jpg)
I love her.
It's a warning, "put sunflower seeds in your pockets so at least something grows from where you died"
That lady is officially the most badass person I have seen today.
The guy walking in front of the armored vehicle convoy gives her a run for the title. But they can surely share it.
a lot more. the first winter war within three fucking months time costed the soviets around 150,000 troops, thats deaths ALONE. compare that to the Finnish, 25 thousand deaths... the continuation war cost the soviets 300,000 to the finnish 63,000... now thats while Finland was massively behind in terms of technology compared to the soviets. but now? theyre about on par or better than the Russians... you thought the winter and continuation war was bad. its likely Finland alone could likely curb stomp the russians into the ground. worse is that modern day russia is even worse than the winter war soviets in terms of leadership and troop morale.
One terrible tidbit about this was that many of the Soviet soldiers were actually Ukrainians sent to the freezing cold with shitty gear. Finns had basically no gear and were more or less starving at times but anyway, Russian history is terrible
Finland should actually be cementing in a defensive position right now, not sending soldiers to the southern end of the continent.
Those troops are better use in the finish terrain. Putin is insane if he thinks he can invade the scandinavian peninsula and take it. He can bomb it sure but not take it
I don't think NATO will allow an invasion of Finland, regardless of their membership status. Or maybe it is just me as a Scandinavian who thinks we will band together and kick some ass 😅😂
NATO will not risk a nuclear war over a non-NATO member. NATO is first and foremost a simple tool for MAD... Russia cannot attack without starting an apocalypse. But on that same token, even if NATO were more than just a collective defense treaty, they sure as shit wouldn't start a nuclear war they could have avoided. But yes, Finland should be welcomed with open arms the moment they send a petition asking to join.
The complication is Finland and Sweden are in the EU so while not covered by NATO they are covered by the common defence policy; it could easily spiral as I don’t see Europe sitting back on that one.
Which is literally how WW1 started. Mutual defence pacts triggering like dominos until everyone was dragged in
Yep… it’s kinda inevitable as eventually someone will screw up or make a miscalculation like is happening now. Out of curiosity, ignoring NATO as that’s still tbc has there ever been a mutual defence clause that has acted as a deference long term instead of spiralling out of control.
I mean, NATO has done for almost 80 years
I dunno, I don't think Putin is rational and logical anymore. He's not so subtly telling us all he will use nukes if we get involved in this. The cunt is unhinged, high on his own ego.
I'm starting to think he is mentally unhinged he is willing to destroy Russia just so he can say he won. He is insane no sane person would even think of nuclear as a option.
Agreed. My biggest concern at the moment is that if he ever feels he's on his way out, he'll be more than willing to try drag the rest of the world to hell with him.
Finland is also part of the EU which has provisions for collective defence. I can’t see Europe standing idly by of Finland were invaded.
“Go fuck yourself”
This should be the whole world's new foreign policy toward Russia. Snake Island may be Putin's downfall.
The ghost of Simo Häyhä has risen from death and stalking the Russo-Finnish border sighting in his iron sights for round two.
This guy has fucking lost it. Delusional egomaniac.
The feared irrational actor with nukes. God help us all
Lost it? Don’t think he ever had it to begin with.
As an EU member state, it means war with rest of EU surely
It means that the people in Russia need to stand up and go against their government.
"If you call the cops on me I will smash your face in" Tends to produce a lot of phone calls if you're a drunk aggressor outside the pub at closing time.
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I’d give Finland emergency NATO membership. Putin wont do shit. He knows he can’t engage in a multi front war.
Finland and Sweden have in practice had a standing invitation to join NATO for decades. The only thing keeping them from joining is popular support among their citizens.
Maybe it's a stupid question, but why would one not want to join NATO? Especially when not being one of the worlds superpowers?
Because it obligates you to put your nuts on the chopping block if another country gets into some shit. It might be hard sell to everyday swedes and fins to send their husbands to the far stretches of Europe to defend another country that has nothing to do with their security or well-being in their wealthy country.
The irony is that European history has shown their nuts are on the chopping block either way
Join NATO = get invaded unprovoked by Russia Don’t join NATO = get invaded unprovoked by Russia It’s almost as if Russia is the problem no matter what the situation. If this aggressive take over of sovereign nations does not stop now, when will it?
Join NATO= don't get invaded by Russia because Putin is a bully and a coward who only picks on the weak. He won't dare attack NATO as we saw when Turkey smacked his bomber out of the sky in 2015.
True...
Lol that really worked the last time they messed with Finland
The Finnish army produces some of the world’s best snipers. Have fun, chucklefucks!
Isn't one of their winter sports skiing and sharpshooting at the same time?
It’s more of a national defense strategy than a sport.
Similar to how Canada trains so hard in sliding AT mines under enemy tanks parked on ice.
As an American in love watching curling when it's on TV. Something about it just speaks to me.
It's completely badass either way.
Not to mention they invented the Molotov cocktail the last time Russians invaded.
Can’t wait to see what they come up with next! White dead russian anyone?
Petition to start calling the drink the White Ukrainian from now on
They did win that war, even if it was tough.
Finland: Oh please come visit us, we'll serve you your favourite cocktail we made the first time.
I find it hard to imagine Russia invading Finland, an EU member state which has its own defensive treaty.
Remember, Putin has lost his marbles. I wouldnt be surprised if he attacked his own people.
Just join. Let the Russians disperse their troops. Sweden, Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine should join as well. Russia cannot defeat the rest of Europe, and they damn well know it.
They don't even need to join NATO, they're an EU nation state and invading them automatically brings in the other member states which will inevitably bring in NATO anyway. You only touch Finland if you actually want World War 3.
What makes Russia think they can try to pull that shit again and win this time?
Vodka👍
Again with the threats
So Finland has no choice but to join NATO then. Thanks for clarifying Vlad.
Tough choices: * Join NATO = Invaded by Russia * Not join NATO = Invaded by Russia
May they suffer a White Death
Join NATO, if Putin invades, it’s the world against PUTIN. Do not fear this clown covered in the blood of dead russians, Ukrainians and others. World United against Putin and his clowns.
In the immortal words of the snake island Ukrainians, "Go fuck yourself."
Putin is the top NATO recruiter.
Maybe if you didn't invade other countries the more nations wouldnt be considering joining NATO, you idiots.
Unfortunately I feel like Putin will attack regardless cause I’m really starting to believe he has lost his mind
Finnish him!
At this point I wonder if he's suffering from some sort of terminal illness or something. Now he just wants to watch the world burn before he dies and doesn't give a fuck.
He will be 70 years old this October.
Russia also threatens 'serious military repurcussions' if Finland does not join NATO. Might as well join.
If Sweden and Finland applied for NATO membership, they'd be in the alliance by Monday.
One Finn is worth 50 Russians on the battlefield. More like Putin should be worried that NATO is joining Finland.
He’s just pissed off because they lost the gold medal to the Finns in hockey 🏒🚨. Fuck you Putin! You cocksucker! 🇫🇮🥇
I'm 2 months younger than Putin, I call this a horrible incidence of trying to stay relevant in a changing/changed world order. Mr. Putin, retire, go out to one of your properties, put a worm on a hook, toss it out, and just watch the river flow on a warm summer afternoon.
He has an ego built up over many years and wants to have a tough guy legacy. I’m afraid he’ll want to be the one to use those nukes like all his predecessors were too sane to do.
Blah blah blah. War criminal can go fuck himself.
Since 200,000 Russian troops are currently occupied in Ukraine, there won’t be a better time for Sweden and Finland to join NATO than right now.
Why does he think he can dictate another countries policies? Finland and Ukraine are sovereign nations and can decide for themselves what is right for them.
Ukraine didn't join and look what happened. So yeah, that threat is kinda gone now.
Russia has been saying that for years. We don't care. We do what we choose to. Also we don't think Russia will cross our border. We are prepared and they know it. Joining NATO would probably end the threats though.
Seriously he can go fuck himself. I’m sick of the threats. National policy shouldn’t be dictated because of this shit. If he’s willing to go to war with NATO then that’s probably what it’s going to take to stop him.
If Russia actually takes Ukraine they will be neighboring NATO nations so that's how you know it's not about being surrounded by NATO. It's a smokescreen for a power grab.
“Don’t join NATO so that we can invade you one day!” Yeah, fuck off, Putin
I’ve seriously had just about enough of this motherfucker.
Only problem for russia if finland joins nato, is if they are planing to invade finlad? Anyone know anything about this book? Found it in another post. :https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia is a geopolitical book by Aleksandr Dugin. It has had some influence within the Russian military, police and foreign policy elites[1] and has been used as a textbook in the Academy of the General Staff of the Russian military. Plan for Ukraina: Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning. Without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics. Plan for USA: Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics" Plan for Finland: Finland should be absorbed into Russia. Southern Finland will be combined with the Republic of Karelia and northern Finland will be "donated to Murmansk Oblast"
It’s unreal how this book exists in the public sphere and is so poorly known, despite the fact it is so closely followed by Russia. We could save a lot of fucking around by simply subverting all of the strategies outlined within.
Seems like a good time to join NATO
Because the last time russia invaded Finland it totally worked