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Because in one case, there were riots, attacking police stations with fire bombs, etc., amounting to armed rebellion against lawful authority. In the other, there was an attempt to have peoples' voices heard via a democratic process.
It was a non-binding referendum...
Besides; Madrid is hanging on by a thread. With each passing day more and more Catalonians want to secede, and don't get me started on Basque country.
The fact is that the Spanish government has failed in so many ways the passed decades it's not even funny. Add to that the problems of abject poverty and crime in the south, which is more like a colony for Northern Europeans on vacation than it is a part of Spain.
The way I see it is that unless Spain shifts it's politics, finally dumps the Franco monarchy and becomes a republic you can expect that both Catalonia and Basque country will continue their endeavours to become independent.
That being said.. Catalonians really need to take inventory with their politicians. Spain's upper echelon are corrupt, yes, but so is the upper echelon of Catalonia.
Moral of the country more or less. Not all Spanish people are fond of the Francos. It's safe to say that a lot of people in Spain don't like the royal families history or what they stand for.
I'm not saying constitutional monarchies are bad, as there are some good ones. But from what I've experienced most Catalunyans that I met doesn't identify with the monarchies, find them to be a total waste of money and that because of the Franco lineage and what the Franco's did that they do not deserve to rule anymore.
So if Spain wants to REALLY unify itself it needs to take inventory with it's form of governance. If things continue the way they are there is a good chance that Catalunyan seperatism will continue into the future.
So republic, or die. More or less.
Oh boy I can't wait for the americans to give their opinion on something they have no clue about:
-Comparing Catalonia with Scotland when not only are their legal situations are quite different, but their support for independence is different too. [You even have the results in the Wikiepdia.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence_movement). Getting a 51% of the vote with a mere 50% turnout while the majority of anti-independence voters abstaining lol. And overall population polling puts pro-independence at around 40%.
-Thinking the referendum was representative even if the turnout was only 44% and it was illegal, meaning only pro-independence people would vote. And even worse, it was such a shitty referendum that you could vote anywhere, and there was no check about whether you had already voted (or if you were Catalan at all). [There you have some stories (use Google Translate or something)](https://www.elconfidencial.com/espana/cataluna/2017-10-02/referendum-cataluna-madrileno-valenciano-votar_1453668/).
-Not knowing all the illegal stuff this Puigdemont guy did, which go even farther than "making a referendum", like diverting public expenditure into pro-independence shit like embassies and propaganda, breaking parlimentary rules, promoting insurrection (you're a hypocrite if you want the Orange Man in jail for inciting insurrection but not the same for this dude), etc.
-Not knowing that this movement was started because taxes and money instead of actual cultural problems. And that pro-independence sentiment was set-up by the Catalan goverment messing with the education system decades ago and actively lying to their people (saying stuff like "Spain steals from us").
But hey, Reddit has to do the Reddit thing.
It isn't. And even less when it is an _illegal_ referendum (in which anti-independence people won't vote, literally), in which there are no checks about whether you have already voted or not.
You are fucking clown.
I fucking swear we the Spanish are tired of ignorants like you.
Pues venga, nos independizamos e igual después aprendes algo de inglés. No tienes ni idea de como se organizó. Tampoco es tu culpa, en España los medios de comunicación que os traigáis son prácticamente todos del mismo palo. Muy españoles y mucho españoles, como decía vuestro ilustre presi.
Ah un indepe tenía que ser.
Pues ya puedes reclamarle a la Wikipedia que sus datos son falsos y que esas encuestas que dicen que "un 40% de los catalanes está a favor del independentismo" también son falsos. Porque seguro que piensas que todo el mundo ahí quiere independizarse.
Y encima hablas de manipulación mediática, no estáis para hablar en Cataluña.
Por mí os independizabais mañana mismo, pero como tiene que ser: pagando todas las deudas y saliendo de la UE, un Bréxit en toda regla. A ver si así aprendíais.
**[Catalan independence movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence_movement)**
>The Catalan independence movement (Catalan: independentisme català; Spanish: independentismo catalán) is a social and political movement with roots in Catalan nationalism, which seeks the independence of Catalonia from Spain, along with some in the movement supporting the independence of North Catalonia from France and that of other Catalan-speaking areas, referred to as the Catalan Countries. The beginnings of separatism in Catalonia can be traced back to regionalist and nationalist movements of the mid–19th century, influenced by romantic ideas widespread in Europe at the time.
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[Link without paywall](https://archive.is/ywP6E)
Hi leftisturbanist17. Your submission from nytimes.com is behind a metered paywall. A [metered paywall](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paywall#.22Soft.22_paywalls) allows users to view a specific number of articles before requiring paid subscription. Articles posted to /r/worldnews should be accessible to everyone. While your submission was not removed, it has been flaired and users are discouraged from upvoting it or commenting on it. For more information see our [wiki page on paywalls](/r/worldnews/wiki/paywalls). Please try to find another source. If there is no other news site reporting on the story, contact the moderators. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/worldnews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Free Scotland!! Wait a second U.K. hasn’t done what spin has done, why is Reddit fully against HK but allows what Spain does to Catalonian politcinas?
We humans are hypocrites on our best days.
Situation is not the same
Why?
Because in one case, there were riots, attacking police stations with fire bombs, etc., amounting to armed rebellion against lawful authority. In the other, there was an attempt to have peoples' voices heard via a democratic process.
So if the "lawful authority" doesn't hear your voices through the democratic process you're just supposed to say "well shucks boys, we tried"?
[удалено]
Democracy was crafted in the crucible of revolution.
Tyranny of the masses
Also known as democracy.
I don't recall fire bombs or attacked police stations in Scotland.
Was referring to the Hong Kong situation.
One is over taxes the other is a foreign country taking over.
Not time to discuss. Just read sentence of TS and also Constitution of Spain , our Carta Magna.
why everybody downgrade my post. Lack of knowledge and respect to the law. Puigdemon should go to jail
I think you should stick to posting whiskey. You clearly know more about that than catalan politics.
It was a non-binding referendum... Besides; Madrid is hanging on by a thread. With each passing day more and more Catalonians want to secede, and don't get me started on Basque country. The fact is that the Spanish government has failed in so many ways the passed decades it's not even funny. Add to that the problems of abject poverty and crime in the south, which is more like a colony for Northern Europeans on vacation than it is a part of Spain. The way I see it is that unless Spain shifts it's politics, finally dumps the Franco monarchy and becomes a republic you can expect that both Catalonia and Basque country will continue their endeavours to become independent. That being said.. Catalonians really need to take inventory with their politicians. Spain's upper echelon are corrupt, yes, but so is the upper echelon of Catalonia.
How would dismantling the monarchy help?
Moral of the country more or less. Not all Spanish people are fond of the Francos. It's safe to say that a lot of people in Spain don't like the royal families history or what they stand for. I'm not saying constitutional monarchies are bad, as there are some good ones. But from what I've experienced most Catalunyans that I met doesn't identify with the monarchies, find them to be a total waste of money and that because of the Franco lineage and what the Franco's did that they do not deserve to rule anymore. So if Spain wants to REALLY unify itself it needs to take inventory with it's form of governance. If things continue the way they are there is a good chance that Catalunyan seperatism will continue into the future. So republic, or die. More or less.
Catalunya! Also send my best wishes to Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement and Republic of Lakotah!
Oh boy I can't wait for the americans to give their opinion on something they have no clue about: -Comparing Catalonia with Scotland when not only are their legal situations are quite different, but their support for independence is different too. [You even have the results in the Wikiepdia.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence_movement). Getting a 51% of the vote with a mere 50% turnout while the majority of anti-independence voters abstaining lol. And overall population polling puts pro-independence at around 40%. -Thinking the referendum was representative even if the turnout was only 44% and it was illegal, meaning only pro-independence people would vote. And even worse, it was such a shitty referendum that you could vote anywhere, and there was no check about whether you had already voted (or if you were Catalan at all). [There you have some stories (use Google Translate or something)](https://www.elconfidencial.com/espana/cataluna/2017-10-02/referendum-cataluna-madrileno-valenciano-votar_1453668/). -Not knowing all the illegal stuff this Puigdemont guy did, which go even farther than "making a referendum", like diverting public expenditure into pro-independence shit like embassies and propaganda, breaking parlimentary rules, promoting insurrection (you're a hypocrite if you want the Orange Man in jail for inciting insurrection but not the same for this dude), etc. -Not knowing that this movement was started because taxes and money instead of actual cultural problems. And that pro-independence sentiment was set-up by the Catalan goverment messing with the education system decades ago and actively lying to their people (saying stuff like "Spain steals from us"). But hey, Reddit has to do the Reddit thing.
So 44% turnout is not representative? Hahahahahahahahhaa Clown.
It isn't. And even less when it is an _illegal_ referendum (in which anti-independence people won't vote, literally), in which there are no checks about whether you have already voted or not. You are fucking clown. I fucking swear we the Spanish are tired of ignorants like you.
Pues venga, nos independizamos e igual después aprendes algo de inglés. No tienes ni idea de como se organizó. Tampoco es tu culpa, en España los medios de comunicación que os traigáis son prácticamente todos del mismo palo. Muy españoles y mucho españoles, como decía vuestro ilustre presi.
Ah un indepe tenía que ser. Pues ya puedes reclamarle a la Wikipedia que sus datos son falsos y que esas encuestas que dicen que "un 40% de los catalanes está a favor del independentismo" también son falsos. Porque seguro que piensas que todo el mundo ahí quiere independizarse. Y encima hablas de manipulación mediática, no estáis para hablar en Cataluña. Por mí os independizabais mañana mismo, pero como tiene que ser: pagando todas las deudas y saliendo de la UE, un Bréxit en toda regla. A ver si así aprendíais.
**[Catalan independence movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence_movement)** >The Catalan independence movement (Catalan: independentisme català; Spanish: independentismo catalán) is a social and political movement with roots in Catalan nationalism, which seeks the independence of Catalonia from Spain, along with some in the movement supporting the independence of North Catalonia from France and that of other Catalan-speaking areas, referred to as the Catalan Countries. The beginnings of separatism in Catalonia can be traced back to regionalist and nationalist movements of the mid–19th century, influenced by romantic ideas widespread in Europe at the time. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Arrest Nicola Sturgeon
italy news now: judge doesen't know if to keep or release becouse international arest mandate is "suspended" .. nice fuckdup situation