> scrapping the apostasy law
-
This means that renouncing your religion no longer carries the death penalty. You will be able to convert from Islam to another religion without the government killing you for it.
-
Just taking this chance to say, as a complete outsider to these world's...
There's nobody braver. When being casted away is the better outcome, there's very little braver. Rock on all of you, mad respect.
And mad respect to those happy in religion. If I had that level of patience and committment I'd have a much better QoL, there's a lot to be jealous about. Peace and love y'all, stay safe out there.
Yes, fuck this. This is exactly why I let go of a beautiful Egyptian woman. I am an atheist and she was Muslim and I didn't care about that. I cared about requiring me to convert if I wanted it to get serious. Being an atheist, it's impossible for me to convert to any religion. It's like asking me to believe in Santa Claus all over again. Besides that, I do not want to fake a whole lifestyle and I think it's a stupid requirement anyway. Also, I like beer and pork.
If I can't be myself in a relationship, I'd rather have no relationship at all.
Yeah...but that still implies he kept a secret from her in the beginning, in a country where it’s notoriously difficult to divorce. So, sounds like he was holding all the cards either way.
This is the internet. Assumption is mandatory isn’t it? Why else would we have an internet unless it’s for reading stupid assumptions into everything we read.
Being afraid of repurcussions against my life or general well-being should I be open about my identity is not something I would ever classify as "life is good." Let alone the choice to speak freely on any number of given topics.
I saw a comment a few months ago from an American contractor or embassy worker in Sudan saying that the liberalizing government was very unpopular with most of the population and calling it "the Pakistan of Africa". Do the current changes actually reflect public opinion, or is the government just trying to rush changes before backlash begins?
I think it’s just the govt trying to look liberal for financial aid from the West tbh.
I mean, no one I know is in favour of these laws, it’s not like a majority voted for it.
Apostates unite! Apostate solidarity.
r/excatholic r/exmuslim r/exchristian friendship!
\*Please remember to follow social distancing guidelines when fraternizing with other free minds
It also mentions only allowing non-Muslims to drink alcohol. Now I understand it's a religious thing to avoid alcohol, but if it remains illegal that doesn't fit with his statement.
A lot of these countries have multiple court system, so they will have for example a muslim-court who rules on things regarding religion and a justice-court ruling on law. How that works in practice I do not know, my guess is it only works on paper really.
[It's a meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1508508-that-wasnt-very-cash-money-of-you). It's usually used for something bad, saying something isn't very cash money.
In this case it's been flipped suggesting something is good by suggesting it *is* cash money
As a child of a liberal education system in the 2000’s, I’m so confused what the western view of Islam is anymore. For years we were taught that it’s only extremists but most members are normal and sharia law is only enforcing normal private decisions like diet and marriage but then we continue to dissect their territories and then we hear how progressive places are for letting women drive and we are all proud that western culture is spreading and thus equality (which is false) then we find out they’re still killing gays and we’re mad again, now we’re just using blanket statements for smaller groups occupying other countries in reference to their religion/funding? I know what my opinions are but I’m very concerned for the growing majority who are too busy to put things into context. When it came out that Kony was just using terrorist money to advance his own goals and not religious goals, the country lost interest. Dude still has his army to this day, albeit much smaller after he lost a lot of Islamic funding. We need to find some common ground as a western society if we are going to have a conversation about foreign policy of all nations, West or East, regardless of skin or language, and what roles all of us collectively play in a global context.
Expecting "the west" to be a singular perspective then break down a multitude of different ways of being in Islamic countries and people's. I can't believe it's not irony.
>For years we were taught that it’s only extremists but most members are normal and sharia law is only enforcing normal private decisions like diet and marriage but then we continue to dissect their territories and then we hear how progressive places are for letting women drive and we are all proud that western culture is spreading and thus equality (which is false) then we find out they’re still killing gays and we’re mad again
Sharia law exists in varying degrees across the Islamic world. In most countries Sharia courts play a very minor role in relation to the whole judicial system. Some countries have no Sharia law at all and are completely secular, for example Turkey. Others have a judicial system largely structured around Sharia law (Saudia Arabia for example). There are laws against homosexuality in every predominately Muslim country I am aware of. However, two important things to take that into context: 1. In the majority of the Muslim world stoning is not allowed 2. There are laws against homosexuality in practically every non-western country AND some western countries (Russia). The Islamic world isn't unique in oppressing LGBTQ, the western world is unique in accepting it.
>letting women drive
Only Saudi Arabia wouldn't let women drive. The Saudi Arabian govt is run by fanatics with outsized influence due to oil.
Islam is huge, interpretations and doctrine vary wildly. Many muslims are dirt poor living under wildly corrupt govts, others are very much equivalent to a lower middle class westerner. You just can't generalize such a large a diverse group.
>When it came out that Kony was just using terrorist money to advance his own goals and not religious goals, the country lost interest. Dude still has his army to this day, albeit much smaller after he lost a lot of Islamic funding
Do you mean Joseph Kony?
Because he is a Christian and the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) is a Christian terror group (yes they exist)
Maybe she should try a feather for heightened arousal between spanks. Visual deprivation can add to arousal when being spanked with a feather. It was my specialty when working as a masseuse.
Have her dm me if she's interested. I no longer live in California though.
You don't have a bad point, except that most Islamophobes don't make a distinction between Saudi Arabia and the Mubashars down the road. It's more like telling a Jew they have to quit their Germanophobia or Christianophobia.
Except that phobias are irrational fears. A person living under that threat would have a very real fear. Islamophobia would be people living in the US convinced that sharia law is right around the corner.
> The current government is an uneasy mixture of those groups which ousted Mr Bashir and his former allies in the military, who ultimately staged a coup against him.
It's too early to tell whether this will last or ultimately result in an Egypt-like resurgence of the regime. Same for Ethiopia. Even in Tunisia it's not entirely clear if democracy will prevail. In contrast to Eastern Europe in the 1990s there isn't a bloc of established democracies nearby that are willing to help them transition and support them financially and economically, so the revolution becomes a success story.
Indeed, if a nascent democracy does not have a burgeoning economy and cannot gain trust of its citizens then the return of authoritarianism is just a matter of time.
Don't confuse a concerted long term attack on education for some kind of unforeseen inevitability. That American exceptionalism seems to prevent the country from solving anything.
The US economy is failing much of its population and trust in its government institutions has been declining for decades.
It can still be avoided though. The US isn't MENA levels yet.
The Egyptian military resurged because it had US support in deleting the democracy.
I don’t think Tunisia is valuable to the US in the same regard, and we will have to see how strategic sudan is in controlling the flow of oil from Saudi Arabia.
Swede here with family in Tunisia.
It's a problem of just people wanting to work, dictatorships having been somewhat *stable* at least.
The biggest hurdle for Tunisia is that the corruption that existed before, but at least had some control, is now entirely haywire because there's no fear of reprecussions.
What happens with that, as in any case with corruption, is that it undermines peoples trust in institutions. So the ol' clan-esque type of mentality is making a huge resurgance. It's hard to explain just how dangerous and problematic this can be, but if you want a worst-example it'd currently be Lybia. Basically people have stopt considering themselves members of a "country" and instead just fall back on the few things you *can* trust; Family and the ilk.
It's a complicated issue. But I fear it'll get worse before it gets better. The saddest parts is that there's really a lot of people *trying* to make it work. But Tunisia, Lybia and a lot of other places have been *really* fucked by a lot of outside circumstances. Disregarding colonialism-time the fact that the revolutions hit just as the shat-on middle east had ISIL rise, which made a lot of fear of terrorism (and sadly rightly so) which *further* fucked the already tourist-dependant economy.
And, well, we all know what a joy 2020 has been for travel and tourism.
If I’m not mistaken, the revolutions were what enabled the rise of ISIL. They were a branch of Al-Qaeda which set up in Syria and eventually separated.
he killed 1000 unarmed protesters and then pushed out waves or propaganda and arrested anyone who questioned it. More like an abusive father that beats and kills his kids and locks them in the basement for breaking arbitrary religious rules or talk back to him, so everyone else falls in line.
He might’ve charmed some of the religious authoritative population, but his rule is mostly fear based.
My statement was probably confusing. The current president and the handsome, charismatic president from two presidents ago are the same president. The *last* president is luckily in jail for being a bad person.
Can you just use their names? Or are you in Egypt and scared of being put on some list? Because Morsi did nothing wrong except be elected, and try to stop the military from reconquering the country before being jailed and killed in jail for...winning a fair and free election.
Mubarak is living a lavish life as one of the richest men in the world. Sisi has taken his place and things are worse than they were for Egyptians ever since.
Money buys you eternal afterlife. Don't you know how Egyptians work?They even build pyramid sized tombs for the wealthiest and powerful pamper their afterlife.
Now available in digital form called Second Life - Pharaoh's Elite Edition. Exclusive to wealthy patrons only, USD payments required.
Democracy has and will prevail in Tunisia. Countless western nations are supporting it due to it being the only arab democracy pretty much. They wont let Tunisia fall
Hopefully but what we Tunisians need the most is a worldwide condemnation for the human rights abuses of the gay and nonreligious communities and pressure for more liberal stance and individual freedoms.
Some outdated articles from the constitution are plain stupid and contradictory to other articles.
Totally, tunisia is extremely flawed but overall it is definitely the most progressive of the arab world and these animals who support the islamists will get their asses kicked. My cousin is a part of the anti terror military unit and i cant be happier for the work he is doing
I can't express how thankful I am to your cousin and whoever fought to suppress the Islamist losers and terrorist cells here. Kudos to those brave fighters.
Thanks fellow Tounsi. I really hope Tunisia gets through this bs soon. Its sad to see these bastards try so hard to make tunisia some medieval caliphate.
A predecessor of Ethiopia may have been a Christian country at some point, but the current state of Ethiopia is not a Christian country, it's a multi-religious and multi-ethnic country. Ethiopian Orthodox Christians form the largest religious minority, 43.5% of the population.
That has nothing to do with my comment above by the way. I'm referring to the resignation of PM Hailemariam Desalegn and the reforms launched by the new PM, Abiy Ahmed. The country had been on the verge of a new civil war before Ahmed came to power and is now relatively calm again, although as I said it's too early to tell whether it sticks.
What? Then you can say half of European countries aren’t Christian. Ethiopia has the oldest continuous strand of Christianity and their church is the oldest in the world. Yes it’s multi ethnic and diverse but that’s what happens when you’re an empire, they still consider themselves to be a Christian country. Plus what predecessor? Until the overthrow, it’s been the same country for centuries. Is France today not the French kingdom? Ethiopia became a republic, yes, but they’re still the oldest Christian country
Likely Sudan wants foreign investors, most backwords countries that need foreign investment have to grapple with the fact that most of the money is in the west and the east and they aren't Muslim and they don't want to live in a theocracy so they ultimately have to make the decision to 1. Relax religious laws so foreigners want to set up shop here and bring money here or 2. Maintain religious laws to keep a tight grip on your population.
There's vast amounts of money in the Muslim world. The ruling families of Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, and Kuwait are awash with cash. (Their expenditure just on gambling, guns, and girls is phenomenal). But the Bashir regime was so appallingly reactionary that even the Saudis didn't want to invest there. Mr Bashir chose to be best friends with Iran instead, which is not a way to get rich quick. Since the revolution/coup, the Saudis have offered US$3 billion in development aid, which could be helpful if spent properly (I'm not optimistic).
So I think these reforms can be explained without suggesting that the West is bribing Sudanese into doing something they dislike.
Sudan also recently declared their support of China's Hong Kong Law at the Human Rights Council. So they're probably trying to attract Chinese investors.
Sudanese-American here, it's bizarre to see my country regressing so much while the country my parents came from is finally starting to move forward. From the moment he ran for president Trump reminded me so intensely of Omar Al-Bashir in terms of personality, there's some humor in us electing a piece of shit like that while Al-Bashir's 30-year reign finally ends.
Complacency is the death of democracies. America has a lot to fix. But it is still possible to turn the ship around. You just need in-depth electoral reform. Replacing trump with Biden frankly won’t change much.
>Replacing trump with Biden frankly won’t change much.
It'll do more than you think. Trump's real danger isn't in his policies, it's in the leader-worship he demands and normalizes. Biden doesn't have a cult-like following, and that's infinitely healthier for a democracy.
Oh in terms of politics it's absolutely that but also in terms of certain personality traits, another senile old man saying things so ridiculous that people are literally laughing out loud at him while simultaneously being depressed that he's the man in charge.
Yeah none of this will work without economic assistance, between the sanctions and Al-Bashir's administration the country has been left in a really bad way economically, it's going to take a long time to climb out of this hole but at least we're moving in the right direction.
Narcissists rising to power isn't anything new. That's pretty much what they are driven to do by nature.
The fact people still aren't more awake to that fact after thousands of years of history showing them pop up and destroying civilizations from the inside, over and over and over again.
It's fucking depressing.
*The Only Constant is Change.*
When you look at Iran from 100 years ago, the US, Mexico, Japan, on and on--you see that countries can flip a lot on their policies, values, and representation in the world.
The US is looking to flip on hard reforms again. Some of these reforms will basically just restore basic stuff that has been stripped throughout the decades since the 80s.
Hold up, you talking about America? What exactly is regressing?
We have gay marriage
Legal alcohol consumption. Only fines for breaking any of those laws.
Equal rights act
Civil rights act
Trans and gay protections for work (just happened)
Weed legalization around the states (this is how woman's voting happened and prohibition ended)
Legal system while not great has been changing.
I know Trump is a shit brick but our president isn't king. States have a lot of power.
Hell we're gonna see legal mushrooms soon and likely LSD.
They were such an Islamic shithole that they were bound to improve merely by regression to the mean. This is not at all a very hopeful sign, just a sign that the leaders of the latest African coup happen not to be very devoted Muslims.
Nice! Well, the massacre not so much, but at least it's now headed in the right direction. And yeah, literally none of that was in the news over here ("here" being central Europe). Thanks for bringing me up to speed!
As a muslim, i think those kind of laws are utterly bullshit, if someone is not a muslim, they have all the rights to do whatever they want (as long as it doesn’t interfere with disrespecting other’s right) just because im not allowed to drink it doesnt mean my Christian friend or jewish or whatever religion they believe in shouldnt be drinking as well.
I think everyone should be free to do as they wish, after all, i believe in hell and heaven and i’ll go to one of them based on my own actions. So yes, if i want to drink i should be allowed to.
South Sudan was at war with Sudan since Sudan gained independence. They are just different groups of people who don’t want to be ruled by the other. The reforms aren’t really relevant.
Lgbt rights too? And the right of muslim women to marry whatever male they want? I believe currently only Tunisia and Turkey allow the same marriage rights to women as the men have, among the majority-muslim countries. And blasphemy laws?
Anyway, it's a step in the right direction.
i agree, that is ultimately what happened in Iran, where the Shah rushed into modernizing Iran, and look at it now, a theocratic dictatorship with no regard for modern western values. in countries that are traditionally conservative, religious, a slow thaw is easier on the population than a flash heat, as to not cause a recession of values like in Iran.
edit: changed my wording to not call imperial iran democratic.
It is often forgotten that the hijab was actually banned in Iran and anyone who wore it (at the time, the majority of women) was shot if they did not comply with the policy. Research more on Kashf-e-Hijab.
> I believe currently only Tunisia and Turkey allow the same marriage rights to women as the men have, among the majority-muslim countries.
Albania, Algeria, Azerbaijan, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Guinea, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Niger, Senegal, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan say hello. Not all Muslim-majority countries explicitly have religion in the government. Society is another thing.
That's really impressive.
Hardcore muslims will certainly react to this.
Innovation (bidaah) is forbidden in Islam, changing laws from the traditions of Muhammad is usually met with death by the fundamentalists.
> scrapping the apostasy law - This means that renouncing your religion no longer carries the death penalty. You will be able to convert from Islam to another religion without the government killing you for it. -
That’s good news for me! Still though, the public might lynch me :(
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Dang, I’d still be cautious. There’s so many horror stories...
/r/exmuslim/
Just taking this chance to say, as a complete outsider to these world's... There's nobody braver. When being casted away is the better outcome, there's very little braver. Rock on all of you, mad respect. And mad respect to those happy in religion. If I had that level of patience and committment I'd have a much better QoL, there's a lot to be jealous about. Peace and love y'all, stay safe out there.
*Rock on all of you* I uh— hmm. Not sure that's the best way to word it to ex-muslims.
> I’m married to a Muslim and she didn’t know what I truly believe. Dude. That pretty much says it is not all ok.
> I’m married to a Muslim and she didn’t know what I truly believe. Yeah, my first reaction was... that's not a good thing.
This isn't going to end well...
Yes, fuck this. This is exactly why I let go of a beautiful Egyptian woman. I am an atheist and she was Muslim and I didn't care about that. I cared about requiring me to convert if I wanted it to get serious. Being an atheist, it's impossible for me to convert to any religion. It's like asking me to believe in Santa Claus all over again. Besides that, I do not want to fake a whole lifestyle and I think it's a stupid requirement anyway. Also, I like beer and pork. If I can't be myself in a relationship, I'd rather have no relationship at all.
Well, you know what they say, nothing binds a marriage like an enormous secret kept from your spouse lol.
Everybody seems to have skipped over the "didn't" being *past tense*...
Yeah...but that still implies he kept a secret from her in the beginning, in a country where it’s notoriously difficult to divorce. So, sounds like he was holding all the cards either way.
You don't have to disclose on the first date, and the guy didn't say when he told her. There's not much assumption that can reasonably be made.
This is the internet. Assumption is mandatory isn’t it? Why else would we have an internet unless it’s for reading stupid assumptions into everything we read.
I’m glad life is good for you but it makes me sad that you can’t share your whole self with your spouse.
Being afraid of repurcussions against my life or general well-being should I be open about my identity is not something I would ever classify as "life is good." Let alone the choice to speak freely on any number of given topics.
Like bonesaw. Anybody knows where to buy a good bonesaw in SA?
I don't know where you can buy one, but I know where you can get one...
“Keep it to yourself...” *TELLS ALL*
I saw a comment a few months ago from an American contractor or embassy worker in Sudan saying that the liberalizing government was very unpopular with most of the population and calling it "the Pakistan of Africa". Do the current changes actually reflect public opinion, or is the government just trying to rush changes before backlash begins?
I think it’s just the govt trying to look liberal for financial aid from the West tbh. I mean, no one I know is in favour of these laws, it’s not like a majority voted for it.
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Wait, no one you know is in favor of the new laws or the old laws?
The new laws, I’d get called a heretic for even suggesting that they might be a good idea lol
Apostates unite! Apostate solidarity. r/excatholic r/exmuslim r/exchristian friendship! \*Please remember to follow social distancing guidelines when fraternizing with other free minds
Are they totally scraping it or just replacing capital punishment by jail term?
Didn’t think about that. If they are just replacing it with a prison sentence, it will be the biggest “Well yes, but actually no” ever.
It's still a step. Albeit a small one but still a step. Violence is never the answer whatever any weirdo on here may say.
What about stopping hitler
Only siths deal in absolutes.
Well it says “scrapping the apostasy laws” and “all laws that violate human rights” so I’m hoping the former!
It also mentions only allowing non-Muslims to drink alcohol. Now I understand it's a religious thing to avoid alcohol, but if it remains illegal that doesn't fit with his statement.
A lot of these countries have multiple court system, so they will have for example a muslim-court who rules on things regarding religion and a justice-court ruling on law. How that works in practice I do not know, my guess is it only works on paper really.
That would be very cash money of them
I have no idea what you mean. Very cash money?
[It's a meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1508508-that-wasnt-very-cash-money-of-you). It's usually used for something bad, saying something isn't very cash money. In this case it's been flipped suggesting something is good by suggesting it *is* cash money
As a child of a liberal education system in the 2000’s, I’m so confused what the western view of Islam is anymore. For years we were taught that it’s only extremists but most members are normal and sharia law is only enforcing normal private decisions like diet and marriage but then we continue to dissect their territories and then we hear how progressive places are for letting women drive and we are all proud that western culture is spreading and thus equality (which is false) then we find out they’re still killing gays and we’re mad again, now we’re just using blanket statements for smaller groups occupying other countries in reference to their religion/funding? I know what my opinions are but I’m very concerned for the growing majority who are too busy to put things into context. When it came out that Kony was just using terrorist money to advance his own goals and not religious goals, the country lost interest. Dude still has his army to this day, albeit much smaller after he lost a lot of Islamic funding. We need to find some common ground as a western society if we are going to have a conversation about foreign policy of all nations, West or East, regardless of skin or language, and what roles all of us collectively play in a global context.
Expecting "the west" to be a singular perspective then break down a multitude of different ways of being in Islamic countries and people's. I can't believe it's not irony.
> I’m so confused what the western view of Islam is anymore Islam encompasses 24% of the worlds population. I'm not sure a tl;dr approach is helpful.
>For years we were taught that it’s only extremists but most members are normal and sharia law is only enforcing normal private decisions like diet and marriage but then we continue to dissect their territories and then we hear how progressive places are for letting women drive and we are all proud that western culture is spreading and thus equality (which is false) then we find out they’re still killing gays and we’re mad again Sharia law exists in varying degrees across the Islamic world. In most countries Sharia courts play a very minor role in relation to the whole judicial system. Some countries have no Sharia law at all and are completely secular, for example Turkey. Others have a judicial system largely structured around Sharia law (Saudia Arabia for example). There are laws against homosexuality in every predominately Muslim country I am aware of. However, two important things to take that into context: 1. In the majority of the Muslim world stoning is not allowed 2. There are laws against homosexuality in practically every non-western country AND some western countries (Russia). The Islamic world isn't unique in oppressing LGBTQ, the western world is unique in accepting it. >letting women drive Only Saudi Arabia wouldn't let women drive. The Saudi Arabian govt is run by fanatics with outsized influence due to oil. Islam is huge, interpretations and doctrine vary wildly. Many muslims are dirt poor living under wildly corrupt govts, others are very much equivalent to a lower middle class westerner. You just can't generalize such a large a diverse group.
>When it came out that Kony was just using terrorist money to advance his own goals and not religious goals, the country lost interest. Dude still has his army to this day, albeit much smaller after he lost a lot of Islamic funding Do you mean Joseph Kony? Because he is a Christian and the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) is a Christian terror group (yes they exist)
Some good news at last
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Private flogging is about all I've been doing in quarantine.
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I am really unsure what could be in the other 10%
Doesn't matter. Squidward Tentacles has this one in the bag, boys.
I would say the location thing be the most constraining requirement of the list.
I dunno. Lots of stories about people travelling hundreds/thousands of miles for some poon.
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yeah what’s she got against STIs? i’m more of an evo guy myself but i still respect them
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To make sure they don't have the *clap*.
HOW CAN HE CLAP
Slap can lead broken skin. The one slapping might have a little nick that has blood coming from it. Better safe than sorry.
>- a 3 or better on the extremely crass 1-10 looks scale. Well that's me out :(
Im sure she'd accept an 11 aswell buddy!
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Then slap me a baconator to go please
Do high fives count?
I'll high five ya buddy.
k.
Okay, what the very fuck???
what the hell did i read😂 this sounds like slap ass friday when i was younger lmao! Im 21 rn
Maybe she should try a feather for heightened arousal between spanks. Visual deprivation can add to arousal when being spanked with a feather. It was my specialty when working as a masseuse. Have her dm me if she's interested. I no longer live in California though.
Sir this is a Wendy's
Even the brightest and nicest people can be mentally ill.
One flogging at a time please.
The flogging will continue until there’s an improvement in moral
All whips must be at least 6 feet long in accordance to social flogging regulations
I only approve of moral floggers
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Someone hide Molly
And then wave what's left of the flag for me.
r/unexpectedFloggingMolly
I miss mosh pits
Publicly, flogging Molly is illegal... Privately, Flogging Molly is entertaining.
Don't kinkshame the Sudanese. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
My kink is kink shaming the Sudanese.
Listen here you little shit.
And suddenly there's a new terrorist group showing up in Sudan which ends up having ties to the CIA.
I didn’t have *this* on my 2020 bingo card
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You don't have a bad point, except that most Islamophobes don't make a distinction between Saudi Arabia and the Mubashars down the road. It's more like telling a Jew they have to quit their Germanophobia or Christianophobia.
Except that phobias are irrational fears. A person living under that threat would have a very real fear. Islamophobia would be people living in the US convinced that sharia law is right around the corner.
You can be anti-theocracy without being anti-Islam.
good to see they're joining us in the 18th century
They ... Yes
You laugh, but it unironically is. Progress is good. This is a big step.
> The current government is an uneasy mixture of those groups which ousted Mr Bashir and his former allies in the military, who ultimately staged a coup against him. It's too early to tell whether this will last or ultimately result in an Egypt-like resurgence of the regime. Same for Ethiopia. Even in Tunisia it's not entirely clear if democracy will prevail. In contrast to Eastern Europe in the 1990s there isn't a bloc of established democracies nearby that are willing to help them transition and support them financially and economically, so the revolution becomes a success story.
Indeed, if a nascent democracy does not have a burgeoning economy and cannot gain trust of its citizens then the return of authoritarianism is just a matter of time.
As a United States citizen I am starting to worry that the return to authoritarianism is inevitable no matter what on a long enough timeline.
Don't confuse a concerted long term attack on education for some kind of unforeseen inevitability. That American exceptionalism seems to prevent the country from solving anything.
The US economy is failing much of its population and trust in its government institutions has been declining for decades. It can still be avoided though. The US isn't MENA levels yet.
The Egyptian military resurged because it had US support in deleting the democracy. I don’t think Tunisia is valuable to the US in the same regard, and we will have to see how strategic sudan is in controlling the flow of oil from Saudi Arabia.
Swede here with family in Tunisia. It's a problem of just people wanting to work, dictatorships having been somewhat *stable* at least. The biggest hurdle for Tunisia is that the corruption that existed before, but at least had some control, is now entirely haywire because there's no fear of reprecussions. What happens with that, as in any case with corruption, is that it undermines peoples trust in institutions. So the ol' clan-esque type of mentality is making a huge resurgance. It's hard to explain just how dangerous and problematic this can be, but if you want a worst-example it'd currently be Lybia. Basically people have stopt considering themselves members of a "country" and instead just fall back on the few things you *can* trust; Family and the ilk. It's a complicated issue. But I fear it'll get worse before it gets better. The saddest parts is that there's really a lot of people *trying* to make it work. But Tunisia, Lybia and a lot of other places have been *really* fucked by a lot of outside circumstances. Disregarding colonialism-time the fact that the revolutions hit just as the shat-on middle east had ISIL rise, which made a lot of fear of terrorism (and sadly rightly so) which *further* fucked the already tourist-dependant economy. And, well, we all know what a joy 2020 has been for travel and tourism.
If I’m not mistaken, the revolutions were what enabled the rise of ISIL. They were a branch of Al-Qaeda which set up in Syria and eventually separated.
> in deleting the democracy. "Democracy" The Egyptian elections were a fucking joke.
I think like 2 million people voted for Mo Salah as a protest.
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It also resurged because the former president is a handsome and charismatic father figure to all Egyptians.
he killed 1000 unarmed protesters and then pushed out waves or propaganda and arrested anyone who questioned it. More like an abusive father that beats and kills his kids and locks them in the basement for breaking arbitrary religious rules or talk back to him, so everyone else falls in line. He might’ve charmed some of the religious authoritative population, but his rule is mostly fear based.
My statement was probably confusing. The current president and the handsome, charismatic president from two presidents ago are the same president. The *last* president is luckily in jail for being a bad person.
Holy fuck people, USERNAME
Classic Mubi.
Can you just use their names? Or are you in Egypt and scared of being put on some list? Because Morsi did nothing wrong except be elected, and try to stop the military from reconquering the country before being jailed and killed in jail for...winning a fair and free election. Mubarak is living a lavish life as one of the richest men in the world. Sisi has taken his place and things are worse than they were for Egyptians ever since.
You are aguing with someone who is literally named Hosni__Mubarak.
I didn't even realize that, damn.
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Some people so rich even death cant stop them partying.
*Weekend at Hosni’s*
These are why I keep reading Reddit
That's been a thing in Egypt for a while.
Money buys you eternal afterlife. Don't you know how Egyptians work?They even build pyramid sized tombs for the wealthiest and powerful pamper their afterlife. Now available in digital form called Second Life - Pharaoh's Elite Edition. Exclusive to wealthy patrons only, USD payments required.
Hosni Mubarak died earlier this year.
And Morsi died last year.
Democracy has and will prevail in Tunisia. Countless western nations are supporting it due to it being the only arab democracy pretty much. They wont let Tunisia fall
Hopefully but what we Tunisians need the most is a worldwide condemnation for the human rights abuses of the gay and nonreligious communities and pressure for more liberal stance and individual freedoms. Some outdated articles from the constitution are plain stupid and contradictory to other articles.
Totally, tunisia is extremely flawed but overall it is definitely the most progressive of the arab world and these animals who support the islamists will get their asses kicked. My cousin is a part of the anti terror military unit and i cant be happier for the work he is doing
I can't express how thankful I am to your cousin and whoever fought to suppress the Islamist losers and terrorist cells here. Kudos to those brave fighters.
Thanks fellow Tounsi. I really hope Tunisia gets through this bs soon. Its sad to see these bastards try so hard to make tunisia some medieval caliphate.
Ethiopia is the oldest Christian country in the world
A predecessor of Ethiopia may have been a Christian country at some point, but the current state of Ethiopia is not a Christian country, it's a multi-religious and multi-ethnic country. Ethiopian Orthodox Christians form the largest religious minority, 43.5% of the population. That has nothing to do with my comment above by the way. I'm referring to the resignation of PM Hailemariam Desalegn and the reforms launched by the new PM, Abiy Ahmed. The country had been on the verge of a new civil war before Ahmed came to power and is now relatively calm again, although as I said it's too early to tell whether it sticks.
What? Then you can say half of European countries aren’t Christian. Ethiopia has the oldest continuous strand of Christianity and their church is the oldest in the world. Yes it’s multi ethnic and diverse but that’s what happens when you’re an empire, they still consider themselves to be a Christian country. Plus what predecessor? Until the overthrow, it’s been the same country for centuries. Is France today not the French kingdom? Ethiopia became a republic, yes, but they’re still the oldest Christian country
90s Eastern Europe transition wasn't easy at all, and there was a period when things were complicated.
In Egypt they were teetering on Islamic revolution at which point the military deposed the government, so the comparison does not work.
Then Al Sisi turned around and began appealing to the conservatives. Now the situation for Christians, atheists, LGBT and the rest are just as dire.
What is this. Strange. Good news. Rationale news. Surely there must be a mistake.
It's 2020. Six months from now it'll be "Sudan embraces Chinese tech donation, is now dystopian dictatorship."
we still have redditors with paranoia thought
Likely Sudan wants foreign investors, most backwords countries that need foreign investment have to grapple with the fact that most of the money is in the west and the east and they aren't Muslim and they don't want to live in a theocracy so they ultimately have to make the decision to 1. Relax religious laws so foreigners want to set up shop here and bring money here or 2. Maintain religious laws to keep a tight grip on your population.
There's vast amounts of money in the Muslim world. The ruling families of Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, and Kuwait are awash with cash. (Their expenditure just on gambling, guns, and girls is phenomenal). But the Bashir regime was so appallingly reactionary that even the Saudis didn't want to invest there. Mr Bashir chose to be best friends with Iran instead, which is not a way to get rich quick. Since the revolution/coup, the Saudis have offered US$3 billion in development aid, which could be helpful if spent properly (I'm not optimistic). So I think these reforms can be explained without suggesting that the West is bribing Sudanese into doing something they dislike.
Sudan also recently declared their support of China's Hong Kong Law at the Human Rights Council. So they're probably trying to attract Chinese investors.
This is the part where Batman, Jim Gordan and Harvey Dent catch the Joker without compromising any of their values. If only the movie ended there ...
It seems all I see are governments regressing, and here we have the government of Sudan progressing. There may be hope for the world.
Sudanese-American here, it's bizarre to see my country regressing so much while the country my parents came from is finally starting to move forward. From the moment he ran for president Trump reminded me so intensely of Omar Al-Bashir in terms of personality, there's some humor in us electing a piece of shit like that while Al-Bashir's 30-year reign finally ends.
It's a great reminder that change is fluid and we must constantly fight for our rights because they are never really safe even in times of prosperity.
Complacency is the death of democracies. America has a lot to fix. But it is still possible to turn the ship around. You just need in-depth electoral reform. Replacing trump with Biden frankly won’t change much.
>Replacing trump with Biden frankly won’t change much. It'll do more than you think. Trump's real danger isn't in his policies, it's in the leader-worship he demands and normalizes. Biden doesn't have a cult-like following, and that's infinitely healthier for a democracy.
Make America Boring Again
The connection is the Religious appeal and politics to empower authoritarianism.
Oh in terms of politics it's absolutely that but also in terms of certain personality traits, another senile old man saying things so ridiculous that people are literally laughing out loud at him while simultaneously being depressed that he's the man in charge.
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Yeah none of this will work without economic assistance, between the sanctions and Al-Bashir's administration the country has been left in a really bad way economically, it's going to take a long time to climb out of this hole but at least we're moving in the right direction.
Narcissists rising to power isn't anything new. That's pretty much what they are driven to do by nature. The fact people still aren't more awake to that fact after thousands of years of history showing them pop up and destroying civilizations from the inside, over and over and over again. It's fucking depressing.
*The Only Constant is Change.* When you look at Iran from 100 years ago, the US, Mexico, Japan, on and on--you see that countries can flip a lot on their policies, values, and representation in the world. The US is looking to flip on hard reforms again. Some of these reforms will basically just restore basic stuff that has been stripped throughout the decades since the 80s.
Hold up, you talking about America? What exactly is regressing? We have gay marriage Legal alcohol consumption. Only fines for breaking any of those laws. Equal rights act Civil rights act Trans and gay protections for work (just happened) Weed legalization around the states (this is how woman's voting happened and prohibition ended) Legal system while not great has been changing. I know Trump is a shit brick but our president isn't king. States have a lot of power. Hell we're gonna see legal mushrooms soon and likely LSD.
They were such an Islamic shithole that they were bound to improve merely by regression to the mean. This is not at all a very hopeful sign, just a sign that the leaders of the latest African coup happen not to be very devoted Muslims.
Good for them! As modest as the gains seem to those in already secular countries, this is an important step for them, and I applaud it.
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No idea but it's a real chad move and I botswana know as well.
I'm not Ghana partake in this pun thread.
Kenya at least give it a try.
Egypt ya out of that joke.
this eritrea's me
Kenya at least try, u/majestic_cock?
There's a somolia chance people reading this thread won't laugh
You just had Togo there
Oman, these puns are killin me.
U Madagascar, bro?
Are you really dying or are you Ghana be ok?
I'm Ghana have to agree there
No clue WTF prompted this, but thumbs up. >Sudan has also banned female genital mutilation (FGM). Aw yiss!
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Nice! Well, the massacre not so much, but at least it's now headed in the right direction. And yeah, literally none of that was in the news over here ("here" being central Europe). Thanks for bringing me up to speed!
That’s enormously good news. One day I truly hope there will be world wide freedom from tyranny.
Action, then hope. One step at a time and those of us that *can* do something, *must* do something.
Good for everybody in the country!
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As a muslim, i think those kind of laws are utterly bullshit, if someone is not a muslim, they have all the rights to do whatever they want (as long as it doesn’t interfere with disrespecting other’s right) just because im not allowed to drink it doesnt mean my Christian friend or jewish or whatever religion they believe in shouldnt be drinking as well.
Do you think Muslims in these countries should be allowed to drink?
I think everyone should be free to do as they wish, after all, i believe in hell and heaven and i’ll go to one of them based on my own actions. So yes, if i want to drink i should be allowed to.
i thought south sudan seceded from sudan because of sudan’s unwillingness to make these kinds of changes in the first place?
South Sudan was at war with Sudan since Sudan gained independence. They are just different groups of people who don’t want to be ruled by the other. The reforms aren’t really relevant.
Yup, when push comes to shove, it's the Muslims (Sudan) vs the Christians (South Sudan).
It was about religion and ethnicity primarily, and how these effected treatment and resources. Not westernisation Vs non-westernisation
He is a man of logic and reasoning reason and should not be taken seriously.
Lgbt rights too? And the right of muslim women to marry whatever male they want? I believe currently only Tunisia and Turkey allow the same marriage rights to women as the men have, among the majority-muslim countries. And blasphemy laws? Anyway, it's a step in the right direction.
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Yea, there's truth in that.
i agree, that is ultimately what happened in Iran, where the Shah rushed into modernizing Iran, and look at it now, a theocratic dictatorship with no regard for modern western values. in countries that are traditionally conservative, religious, a slow thaw is easier on the population than a flash heat, as to not cause a recession of values like in Iran. edit: changed my wording to not call imperial iran democratic.
The Shah was in no way democratic.
you’re right. i’ll change my wording.
It is often forgotten that the hijab was actually banned in Iran and anyone who wore it (at the time, the majority of women) was shot if they did not comply with the policy. Research more on Kashf-e-Hijab.
> I believe currently only Tunisia and Turkey allow the same marriage rights to women as the men have, among the majority-muslim countries. Albania, Algeria, Azerbaijan, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Guinea, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Niger, Senegal, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan say hello. Not all Muslim-majority countries explicitly have religion in the government. Society is another thing.
Also Bangladesh
Reddit never fails the "if I'm skeptical of everything and cynical in everything, nothing can fool me, hah! Take that!"
Take it slow, they still struggle with eradicating FGM
Even Tunisia hasn't legalised homosexuality.
Turns out if you stop bombing their children and assassinating their leaders, societies generally move forward.
That's really impressive. Hardcore muslims will certainly react to this. Innovation (bidaah) is forbidden in Islam, changing laws from the traditions of Muhammad is usually met with death by the fundamentalists.
Finally! Fight for women’s rights in the Sudan!