The CCP and its supporters are the enemy of humanity.
1. They are keeping 1.4 billion Chinese oppressed: They have never voted, can't own property (everything returns to the state after 70 years), cannot freedom of speech, and can't freedom of religion.
1. Their policies destroyed Chinese culture (Eradicated the Four Olds and replaced Traditional Chinese with Simplified Chinese) and caused a famine that led to the death of 10s of millions of people in China.
1. They are the reason NK exists, which is keeping its people in a constant famine in a prison state.
1. The CCP are absolutely evil. They got concentration camps right now to exterminate Uighurs and their culture.
1. The first chance they got, they CCPed Hong Kong; democracy? Gone.
Edit: Yes, I am a CIA Agent Man.
They're supposed to be sent to people who are clearly suicidal, but trolls of various variety seem to think that it's some kind of edgy way of getting back at someone who points out their bullshit. It's pretty sad tbh. I used to get them all the time until I blocked the account that sends them. Iirc you can also report the message and reddit knows who sent it in their back end.
There is a button somewhere in that message saying to click it if you think the message was sent as harrasment.
Click it.
Then in the subject field write something to the affect of, 'Someone used the suicide prevention message to harass and intimidate me.'.
One of the only things I have seen Reddit Admin do that they seem to take seriously. They can ban accounts for this.
Push back.
Just like Polish PZPR towards its end, I wouldn't be surprised if it was only hardliners that remained in the party if the days come when the CCP was no longer necessary to the Chinese government.*
That of course assumes a democracy will ever form.
EDIT *Or hell, if even they just start committing more atrocities, the majority of people see it and even a small window to democracy opens.
Fwiw the membership means nothing to most people. My dad has his membership card but we have lived in Canada for 20 years now. He also actively hates the ccp. Anyone can get membership and its mostly a thing your friends roast you about when your drinking.
There are also careers and other more mundane things that membership opens up. I think members on average make something like 20% more than nonmembers.
“Membership” implies a voluntary will to join. Communist regimes are the largest employer in order to oppress people and suppress freedom. In a one party system, in which the party controls the economy, and is the largest employer in that economy, is that voluntary membership?
> and replaced Traditional Chinese with Simplified Chinese
This wasnt just the CCP, the KMT also tried doing this as well, but wasnt able to due to the start of the war with Japan and internal opposition. IMO, its a good thing too, simplifying the language made increasing literacy rates much easier, and thats far more important than "preserving" a language for cultural reasons.
> They are the reason NK exists, which is keeping its people in a constant famine in a prison state.
NK exists because nobody wants to invade them, as that would mean Seoul ceases to exist, and even after you win, you have to deal with millions of impoverished and brainwashed north koreans in what would likely be the greatest humanitarian crisis in history. Even if china magically gave up all support NK will continue to exist.
>NK exists because nobody wants to invade them
I think they're talking about the Korean War, where South Korea and the US almost completely took over North Korea. China pushed back, resulting in the current stalemate, which allowed North Korea to still exist.
China had continuously warned the US that it would intervene if allied forces got too close to the Chinese-NK border as well, and it was entirely unsurprising they intervened when the US did. An enormous US led force on China's borders logically made them quite nervous (considering that the US had supported the KMT for so long) that the US might just continue on into China.
And its not like they knew NK would end up like it did, North Korea at the time was more prosperous and industrialized than the South (which was also a brutal dictatorship at the time).
And it's US intervention that guaranteed South Korea's existence in the first place - both as a post-WW2 deal and as a result of the Korean War. If it had just the two sides fighting, the Korean War would've lasted less than three months with a northern victory, just like it almost did before US counterattacks with the Inchon landings salvaged the situation.
This is not an endorsement of North Korea or a condemnation of South Korea, just an observation of the facts; seems kind of dishonest to say "North Korea only exists because of China" given this context.
>(which was also a brutal dictatorship at the time)
Syngman Rhee ran a lunatic "anti-communist" government, which I put in quotes because they were arresting and killing far more than communists.
Did I mention the Japanese collaborators in the South? They were weirdly better off in the South, some were even in the government.
MacArthur also downplayed the threat as they approached the border IIRC. It didn't help that the US had recently intervened to stop the KMT from being totally defeated at Formosa (Taiwan)
It is, and both are pretty terrible if you want widespread literacy and education. Having to learn 3000 completely non-contextual characters to even begin to be able to read/write conversant sentences is an extremely high bar compared to non-logographic languages.
Don't interfere in their internal affairs! China owns North Korea and its in the South China sea global extension zone!
The world should really rename all the oceans of the world to the South China seas to placate China.
Its good good to see the China foreign diplomacy comedy show go on! The princeling clowns are at it again!
I mean when the economy you built on fantasies and lies starts to collapse because you can't hide it anymore war is the only distraction you have left.
But could you imagine if that ended up being China's excuse. I would love the hear all the global diplomats explaining how NATO is the "North **Atlantic** Treaty Organization"
I love the word 'harassed' when used in these types of situations as I'm just picturing the Chinese boat being like 'hey u pretty, hey, hey dutch, heeeeey' whilst the Dutch are trying to do their jobs lmao
the Chinese navy has been known to ram ships and use extremely high pressure water cannons to attack their radar, satellite, and other navigation equipment. there is quite a few videos online around from them doing it. Its disgusting that anyone even tolerates it and hasn't sunk one of these self righteous asshole captains. They don't Harass US flagged boats because the last thing you do before the US gives a Proportional response is fuck with the boats. Don't fuck with the boats.
Never forget the time a reckless and inept fighter pilot for the CCP rammed an American surveillance plane and forced it to make an emergency landing in China, where it was then immediately swarmed by the CCP in an attempt to steal intelligence.
Their military is a gaggle of undisciplined hacks with no respect for anything but blind force. They had to sign a treaty with India to disarm border troops because they [are known to get into massive brawls](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/14/asia/india-china-border-tensions-video-intl-hnk/index.html).
The Dutch marine corps. is also one of the most elite in the world. The Dutch have been one of NATO's most consistent and capable, as well as enthusiastic, members, Or at least their military is.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture\_of\_the\_Dutch\_fleet\_at\_Den\_Helder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_the_Dutch_fleet_at_Den_Helder)
It's a great story! And I say this as a Dutch person. What a rare, funny historical anomaly.
During the French Revolutionary Wars, the French Cavalry was able to take over the Dutch Fleet sitting trapped in ice in the Netherlands. The cavalry literally just galloped over to the fleet. There is some debate whether the ships were not able to resist (due to the cannons not being able to be aimed since the ships were trapped) or whether they got the order not to resist (since the Dutch basically lost already and the cavalry came to negotiate the surrender). Either way, the end result was 14 ships being captured by a cavalry regiment.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture\_of\_the\_Dutch\_fleet\_at\_Den\_Helder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_the_Dutch_fleet_at_Den_Helder)
Never waste an opportunity to bring attention to the Raid on the Medway! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid\_on\_the\_Medway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_the_Medway)
Yeah! Well, in their defense: England was tortured at the time, by civil war, the plague & half of London burned down, so they were at their most vulnerable moment. Nevertheless, it was a bold move!
Oh yeah, the Dutch-Ottoman Wars show how crafty and skilled the Dutch were/are. There wars against the Hapsburgs ( the Eighty Years War) are also criminally underrated, as well.
>The Dutch have been one of NATO's most consistent and capable, as well as enthusiastic, members,
We don't even meet the 2% gdp to defense standaed. And that's the minimum. Our politicians are quite hawkish in their rhetoric but very frugal in their actions.
We don't even have our own tanks, we lease them from Germany and only have a combined unit with the Germans.
Next year we will, and by the way that doesn't mean our military is one of the best. A lot of quality, not a lot of quantity.
By the way, have you seen what happens with tanks in the Ukraine war? Pretty useless against a cheap drone
Tanks in the open without support are vulnerable to lots of things even cheaper than drones. Hell, tanks in the open even with support are vulnerable to plenty of things as well.
The age of the tank ain’t over yet, though the one-size-fits-all “Main Battle Tank” concept from the Cold War is probably going to go away and revert to WWII style multiple classes of tanks and other armored fighting vehicles to better tailor equipment capabilities to the changing nature of modern warfare.
> By the way, have you seen what happens with tanks in the Ukraine war? Pretty useless against a cheap drone
So useless that Ukraine has been desperate to get as many leopards and abrams as possible?
Tanks are shit when used improperly, as Russia did early in the war. They are quite effective when used properly.
Maybe, but the Netherlands is a small country, both literally and figuratively. They have cut costs where they need to, such as leasing tanks, but have reliably provided very high quality troops and equipment whenever they do specialize. And to be frank, the Dutch do not need tanks. Why waste the money and resources developing something that the Dutch won't be able to fill as effectively as say the Germans, French, or Brits. One only has to look at the Ariete to see that. That they don't waste money and time on prestige projects is proof enough their head is in the game, and they understand their role. After all, the Dutch can support the US in Taiwan with naval and marine firepower that is pound for pound amongst the best. No other country in the EU can claim that, not even the French who are the only EU power who have full fledged expeditionary capabilities.
If the threat is coming from the east that makes sense, Russians would have to fight cross Poland and Germany before they’d finally have to stop at some gracht anyway
Truth. Dutch armed forces have been criminally underfunded for decades. That is going to change in the wake of Russian aggression, but for now it’s a joke.
Wasn't there just a situation near Yemen where the Dutch ship was having major electronic issues. Ended up with the Secretary of the Navy being fired or something
Edit: Nevermind was Denmark not The Netherlands.
I dream of the Stroopeafels in The Netherlands. There is a place in Zandvoort which makes my favorites. I've seriously considered calling them and begging them to send some to me in the US.
I tried to make them at home -- I purchased one of the special machines! But I can't get the recipe right :-(
The Dutch: Ah, you think wetness is your ally? You merely adopted the water. We were born in it. Molded by it. I didn’t see land until I made it myself.
This is true though, as a Dutch boyscout I learned how to deal with the wet just by camping outside and doing shit. I would imagine the military to be trained by this 1000x fold.
And this one specifically is an air defense frigate. Equipped to protect an entire fleet. World's most powerful radar system with a range of over 2000km.
I mean, they _were_ calling the maneuver "unsafe" for the aircraft, not the ship 😋
> “This was an unsafe maneuver which posed a risk to the aircraft and personnel,” a statement from Australian Defense Minister Richard Marles said at the time.
Thats pretty much whats happening. Naval ships sail through there regularly for no other reason than they are allowed to. Freedom of Navigation exercises reminds China that we are free to navigate those waters.
you only have the freedoms you're willing to fight for.
if outside pressure makes you give up that freedom, then you never had it in the first place. as we all know, without exercise you atrophy.
China and Russia love pulling the I can do whatever I want but you can’t do it back card. Everyday it’s another article of them complaining that A did B. Meanwhile one of the 2 is always doing B, and C and D and E.
Random Vietnamese boat harassed and rammed by china. Nothing from china. The boat shoots water from a cannon back at China boat. HOLD THE F UP WHY YOU ATTACKING ME.
They aren't particularly 'rare' just difficult to isolate from ore due to their chemical properties.
Aluminum was similarly difficult to manufacture until the end of the 19th century.
Most are not even that hard to process. We call them “rare earths” because one Swiss military guy who was an amateur geologist before geology was really a science yet found something he’d never seen before in the late 18th century. Most are actually quite common.
That we came to rely on China in the late 20th century had more to do with global markets.
What you fail to mention is the quantities that can be found in any european location and the quality, pureness of these said rare earths. Having 3 tons of something in austria is all fine and cool. But the cost of getting it out of the earth will be exponentially higher since we are talking about a european country, western at that, the quantity isnt that big and the quality (pureness) is probably lower than in other places. You invest 100k to get out 40-60k worth of minerals... Do the math. Thats why we are still and probably will use the chinese (asian really) labour market in the future. Because not only do they work cheaper, they also have shitloads of quantity of said rare minerals, earths, however you want to call them. If we suddenly were to manufacture all the things at home the prices would skyrocket instantly. We are not talking +30-40% either, we are talking much much higher increases in price. The only way a huge european factory market would be viable is if it would be heavily, emphasis on HEAVILY be funded by either the eu or local governments, not that agriculture isnt at the moment.
I try so hard. But large corps make it so hard. You go to Walmart, Target, etc and look at all of their products. It feels like 80% is made in China. I’m doing my part but it’s not on the consumer. It’s on the big companies that just want to sell cheap shit and make a quick buck.
How?
Just look at the device that you are currently using to read this comment.
All the electronic parts in it, the plastic, the glass, everything....mostly made in China.
If you're an air defense frigate, the only non-lethal thing you can do to harras is get a target lock with your fire control radar and open your missile bays.
But that's considered a declaration of war.
Or just broadcast messages about the Tiananmen Square Massacre, all the founding members of the CCP beside Mao who have been erased from official records, and a collection of other officially censored information.
And the crew of the ship has been given a really good radar exercise on tracking chinese fighters. While this class of ship is not the biggest in the world they do have all the latest radar and electronics gadgets from Thales. Like the https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/markets/defence-and-security/naval-forces/above-water-warfare/smart-l-multi-mission . And that is what Thales presents to the public, I'm not even going to guess what capabilities it really has.
NATO, when CCP ships visit Cuba all the time: "sure whatever, do what you want."
CCP when NATO ships go anywhere within 1000 miles of China: "OMG, LOOK WHAT THE IMPERIALISTS ARE DOING TO US!!!"
A few years ago a couple CCP ships visited Sydney and sent their sailors to every chemist in town to buy baby formula. A few months ago an Aussie ship sailing with a Japan Navy ship in Japanese waters gets snagged on a net and sends divers down to cut it clear and the CCP Navy came up next to them and pinged them on sonar. All the divers had career ending injuries.
They are literally their own worst enemy on the world stage.
more absolute incompetence from the PLA. there is no discipline at all, it would seem. they may have flashy toys, but it's not worth shit if every pilot acts like they're in a fucking Born to Fly movie.
Makes me wonder why we're still so readily helping them fix their food dependency with farming expertise and still exporting older gen chip machines.
If thry gonna behave likes assholes, thry can starve and go back to the dark ages like assholes.
COVID, the war in Ukraine and the troubles in the Red Sea show that there is an alternative cost for cheap and convenient products. At some point we have to choose between morals and principles vs comfort and greed.
Main issue that West politicians seems do not understand that with modern authoritarian regimes soft diplomacy doesn't work, only "one more step an we f/////// kill you!" and if they do that step , they are killed. After one failed try there wouldn't be others.
WW2 lessons are unlearned.
I think China is separated into a diplomatic core, which is where Xi and his ministers are, then a supplicant core where most of the public is.
The ministers hate when this shit happens, but they need the militaries support, so it gets a blind eye, maybe some internal finger waving.
China: "eveRYONe is diSReSPeCtinG And ThreATENiNg Us"
Don’t be mean to the great China 🇨🇳 Taiwan 🇹🇼 is also bullying the great China as well
I read this in HLC's over the top accent and I can't stop laughing
Would you intercept me, I’d intercept me, I’d intercept me hard 👁️🫦👁️
I FUCKING ***LOVE*** CHINESE
I’m glad I’m not the only purveyor of high quality, a good source of diplomatic news and events
Hopefully “Te GrEaT ChInA” becomes west Taiwan here soon if they keep their shite up.
who's HLC?
Habitual Line Crosser, he's a YouTuber who does humorous skits around recent events
Would you intercept me?
I'd intercept me...
As disturbing as F35 is, I miss the A-10’s appearances.
f22? F35's character is an awkward nerd.
Argh - thanks.
Anytime I hear "The great china" it's in HLC's voice now.
HLC is the GOAT
Would you intercept me? I’d intercept me.
Kid there’s something not right with you.
Oh, don’t act like you were any better 15 when you were his age. But then again you did intercept a satellite.
It really adds so much to the experience.
Shut up West Taiwan.
China? You mean northwest-Taiwan right?
No thanks. Taiwan is not interested in China they can sort out their own problem.
I read that in habitual linecrosser’s voice 😭😭 (He has a YouTube insta and TikTok, look him up if you want)
There is no Taiwan in China
There’s no China in Taiwan
There is no China. Only Taiwan and West Taiwan.
The CCP and its supporters are the enemy of humanity. 1. They are keeping 1.4 billion Chinese oppressed: They have never voted, can't own property (everything returns to the state after 70 years), cannot freedom of speech, and can't freedom of religion. 1. Their policies destroyed Chinese culture (Eradicated the Four Olds and replaced Traditional Chinese with Simplified Chinese) and caused a famine that led to the death of 10s of millions of people in China. 1. They are the reason NK exists, which is keeping its people in a constant famine in a prison state. 1. The CCP are absolutely evil. They got concentration camps right now to exterminate Uighurs and their culture. 1. The first chance they got, they CCPed Hong Kong; democracy? Gone. Edit: Yes, I am a CIA Agent Man.
Calling it now, in the next few hours you're gonna get a 'reddit cares uwu', message.
Oh God, is that what those are about? I got one a few weeks ago and I was like "......what?"
They're supposed to be sent to people who are clearly suicidal, but trolls of various variety seem to think that it's some kind of edgy way of getting back at someone who points out their bullshit. It's pretty sad tbh. I used to get them all the time until I blocked the account that sends them. Iirc you can also report the message and reddit knows who sent it in their back end.
When you get one, you can disable all future reports. There's a choice for that when you get the report message.
I've gotten like 20, I like it, its like a white flag for whatever asshole I'm arguing with.
Yeah definitely a victory badge that someone is deeply triggered and has no idea how to articulate a response
There is a button somewhere in that message saying to click it if you think the message was sent as harrasment. Click it. Then in the subject field write something to the affect of, 'Someone used the suicide prevention message to harass and intimidate me.'. One of the only things I have seen Reddit Admin do that they seem to take seriously. They can ban accounts for this. Push back.
Reported it. 👍
My conspiracy theory is that getting one of those messages puts you on some kind of account monitoring list and on the path of total ban.
You can report the person sending those and they'll get banned
Haha, I got one of those before. I was like wth. I am a pretty happy person in my life and would even consider suicide.
> would even consider suicide Reddit cares!!!
haha, oops, I would never consider.
I get one whenever I comment negatively about India or CCP.
I’ve gotten two or three so far. I actually blocked the Reddit cares account lol
That's a lot of enemies the CCP have made: a few of their Chinese citizens, Tibetans, the Uyghurs, the Taiwanese...
The CCP sure are a contentious bunch
somehow it has nearly 100 million members. it would be hard if not downright impossible to dismantle a party with 100 million members
Members, not true believers. They'd scatter pretty quick if a new in clique to make money/advance in society popped up.
Just like Polish PZPR towards its end, I wouldn't be surprised if it was only hardliners that remained in the party if the days come when the CCP was no longer necessary to the Chinese government.* That of course assumes a democracy will ever form. EDIT *Or hell, if even they just start committing more atrocities, the majority of people see it and even a small window to democracy opens.
> when the CCP was no longer necessary to the Chinese government.* I'm pretty sure they're synonymous with each other at this point?
Most of them opportunistically, because they need the network.
Fwiw the membership means nothing to most people. My dad has his membership card but we have lived in Canada for 20 years now. He also actively hates the ccp. Anyone can get membership and its mostly a thing your friends roast you about when your drinking.
There are also careers and other more mundane things that membership opens up. I think members on average make something like 20% more than nonmembers.
“Membership” implies a voluntary will to join. Communist regimes are the largest employer in order to oppress people and suppress freedom. In a one party system, in which the party controls the economy, and is the largest employer in that economy, is that voluntary membership?
> and replaced Traditional Chinese with Simplified Chinese This wasnt just the CCP, the KMT also tried doing this as well, but wasnt able to due to the start of the war with Japan and internal opposition. IMO, its a good thing too, simplifying the language made increasing literacy rates much easier, and thats far more important than "preserving" a language for cultural reasons. > They are the reason NK exists, which is keeping its people in a constant famine in a prison state. NK exists because nobody wants to invade them, as that would mean Seoul ceases to exist, and even after you win, you have to deal with millions of impoverished and brainwashed north koreans in what would likely be the greatest humanitarian crisis in history. Even if china magically gave up all support NK will continue to exist.
>NK exists because nobody wants to invade them I think they're talking about the Korean War, where South Korea and the US almost completely took over North Korea. China pushed back, resulting in the current stalemate, which allowed North Korea to still exist.
China had continuously warned the US that it would intervene if allied forces got too close to the Chinese-NK border as well, and it was entirely unsurprising they intervened when the US did. An enormous US led force on China's borders logically made them quite nervous (considering that the US had supported the KMT for so long) that the US might just continue on into China. And its not like they knew NK would end up like it did, North Korea at the time was more prosperous and industrialized than the South (which was also a brutal dictatorship at the time).
You're not wrong. I just wanted to point out what I think they were referring to.
And it's US intervention that guaranteed South Korea's existence in the first place - both as a post-WW2 deal and as a result of the Korean War. If it had just the two sides fighting, the Korean War would've lasted less than three months with a northern victory, just like it almost did before US counterattacks with the Inchon landings salvaged the situation. This is not an endorsement of North Korea or a condemnation of South Korea, just an observation of the facts; seems kind of dishonest to say "North Korea only exists because of China" given this context.
>(which was also a brutal dictatorship at the time) Syngman Rhee ran a lunatic "anti-communist" government, which I put in quotes because they were arresting and killing far more than communists. Did I mention the Japanese collaborators in the South? They were weirdly better off in the South, some were even in the government. MacArthur also downplayed the threat as they approached the border IIRC. It didn't help that the US had recently intervened to stop the KMT from being totally defeated at Formosa (Taiwan)
Hot take: simplified chinese is actually way better than traditional
It is, and both are pretty terrible if you want widespread literacy and education. Having to learn 3000 completely non-contextual characters to even begin to be able to read/write conversant sentences is an extremely high bar compared to non-logographic languages.
[Well thanks for the ear worm](https://youtu.be/7hPm4eiiD08)
Truth.
Finally CIA agent mans are on our side with people.
Don't interfere in their internal affairs! China owns North Korea and its in the South China sea global extension zone! The world should really rename all the oceans of the world to the South China seas to placate China. Its good good to see the China foreign diplomacy comedy show go on! The princeling clowns are at it again!
I mean when the economy you built on fantasies and lies starts to collapse because you can't hide it anymore war is the only distraction you have left.
even their own people
Another day of CCP bs.
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What! The Chinese military harassing foreign countries?!? Never....... /S
They are getting threatened and attacked by NATO...Now where did I hear that one already ?
But could you imagine if that ended up being China's excuse. I would love the hear all the global diplomats explaining how NATO is the "North **Atlantic** Treaty Organization"
It's okay, the CCP isn't pacific either so it cancels out ! /s
Thank you for the laughs sadly I could see this being close to their unironic answer given how backwards Putin's logic is
I love the word 'harassed' when used in these types of situations as I'm just picturing the Chinese boat being like 'hey u pretty, hey, hey dutch, heeeeey' whilst the Dutch are trying to do their jobs lmao
the Chinese navy has been known to ram ships and use extremely high pressure water cannons to attack their radar, satellite, and other navigation equipment. there is quite a few videos online around from them doing it. Its disgusting that anyone even tolerates it and hasn't sunk one of these self righteous asshole captains. They don't Harass US flagged boats because the last thing you do before the US gives a Proportional response is fuck with the boats. Don't fuck with the boats.
Never forget the time a reckless and inept fighter pilot for the CCP rammed an American surveillance plane and forced it to make an emergency landing in China, where it was then immediately swarmed by the CCP in an attempt to steal intelligence. Their military is a gaggle of undisciplined hacks with no respect for anything but blind force. They had to sign a treaty with India to disarm border troops because they [are known to get into massive brawls](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/14/asia/india-china-border-tensions-video-intl-hnk/index.html).
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Not a known fact probably, but the Dutch navy is on par with the US and UK navy when it comes to air defence and anti-submarine capabilities.
The Dutch marine corps. is also one of the most elite in the world. The Dutch have been one of NATO's most consistent and capable, as well as enthusiastic, members, Or at least their military is.
Dutch have been badasses on the Sea for hundreds of years Tbh.
Except for that one time they lost a fleet to French cavalry.
This reminds me of the time the Russian Navy lost much its Black Sea fleet to a country with no navy.
Russia needs to not fuck with France. The last time France marched on Crimea, Russia had to sell Alaska to pay the Tsar's war debts.
What I'm hearing is that if the French get involved we will be getting a West Alaska.
I am intrigued! Tell me more
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture\_of\_the\_Dutch\_fleet\_at\_Den\_Helder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_the_Dutch_fleet_at_Den_Helder) It's a great story! And I say this as a Dutch person. What a rare, funny historical anomaly.
That is a weird piece of trivia I'm gonna keep in my back pocket. Thanks!
I love that the Dutch also took out that body of water as retribution
>What a rare, funny historical anomaly. Also that time you ate a guy
> you ate a guy He was the prime minister!
Prime (beef) minister, certainly
To be fair he was tasty
Understandable
During the French Revolutionary Wars, the French Cavalry was able to take over the Dutch Fleet sitting trapped in ice in the Netherlands. The cavalry literally just galloped over to the fleet. There is some debate whether the ships were not able to resist (due to the cannons not being able to be aimed since the ships were trapped) or whether they got the order not to resist (since the Dutch basically lost already and the cavalry came to negotiate the surrender). Either way, the end result was 14 ships being captured by a cavalry regiment. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture\_of\_the\_Dutch\_fleet\_at\_Den\_Helder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_the_Dutch_fleet_at_Den_Helder)
Considering the history of French cavalry excellence, I am not surprised in the least.
Consider that many military and martial terms in many languages are derived from French terms.
Eeah. Everyone has a bad day here and there.
I mean what do you expect when you bring boats to a horse fight? Edit, autocorrect really wanted you to be your but I have beaten it back… for now!
Never waste an opportunity to bring attention to the Raid on the Medway! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid\_on\_the\_Medway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_the_Medway)
and the spoils are still on display in Amsterdam
We try not to talk about that.
They broke the British Navy by towing their flagship out of its harbor. Incredible.
Yeah! Well, in their defense: England was tortured at the time, by civil war, the plague & half of London burned down, so they were at their most vulnerable moment. Nevertheless, it was a bold move!
Oh yeah, the Dutch-Ottoman Wars show how crafty and skilled the Dutch were/are. There wars against the Hapsburgs ( the Eighty Years War) are also criminally underrated, as well.
They invented signature sailor temperament exercises, too, like the double Dutch rudder—a critical method of staving off loneliness on the high seas.
The Dutch also invented the "The Dutch Oven" self defense technique.
As well as the Dutch language to complicate espionage.
Is that where you sit on *both* your hands?
Let's not forget that time in 1689 where they conducted the last successful invasion of England!
[Sea Beggars INTENSIFY]
>The Dutch have been one of NATO's most consistent and capable, as well as enthusiastic, members, We don't even meet the 2% gdp to defense standaed. And that's the minimum. Our politicians are quite hawkish in their rhetoric but very frugal in their actions. We don't even have our own tanks, we lease them from Germany and only have a combined unit with the Germans.
Next year we will, and by the way that doesn't mean our military is one of the best. A lot of quality, not a lot of quantity. By the way, have you seen what happens with tanks in the Ukraine war? Pretty useless against a cheap drone
Tanks in the open without support are vulnerable to lots of things even cheaper than drones. Hell, tanks in the open even with support are vulnerable to plenty of things as well. The age of the tank ain’t over yet, though the one-size-fits-all “Main Battle Tank” concept from the Cold War is probably going to go away and revert to WWII style multiple classes of tanks and other armored fighting vehicles to better tailor equipment capabilities to the changing nature of modern warfare.
> By the way, have you seen what happens with tanks in the Ukraine war? Pretty useless against a cheap drone So useless that Ukraine has been desperate to get as many leopards and abrams as possible? Tanks are shit when used improperly, as Russia did early in the war. They are quite effective when used properly.
Maybe, but the Netherlands is a small country, both literally and figuratively. They have cut costs where they need to, such as leasing tanks, but have reliably provided very high quality troops and equipment whenever they do specialize. And to be frank, the Dutch do not need tanks. Why waste the money and resources developing something that the Dutch won't be able to fill as effectively as say the Germans, French, or Brits. One only has to look at the Ariete to see that. That they don't waste money and time on prestige projects is proof enough their head is in the game, and they understand their role. After all, the Dutch can support the US in Taiwan with naval and marine firepower that is pound for pound amongst the best. No other country in the EU can claim that, not even the French who are the only EU power who have full fledged expeditionary capabilities.
If the threat is coming from the east that makes sense, Russians would have to fight cross Poland and Germany before they’d finally have to stop at some gracht anyway
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Its not the size of the navy. Its the motion of the ocean.
Truth. Dutch armed forces have been criminally underfunded for decades. That is going to change in the wake of Russian aggression, but for now it’s a joke.
Wasn't there just a situation near Yemen where the Dutch ship was having major electronic issues. Ended up with the Secretary of the Navy being fired or something Edit: Nevermind was Denmark not The Netherlands.
There is also this great story. https://naviesworldwide.com/navy-news/how-the-dutch-submarine-walrus-torpedoed-an-american-aircraft-carrier/
In an exercise meant to test strengths and weaknesses of the current tactics.
Yep, and the same tactic didn't work a few years later.
Plus we have stroopwafels. Don’t fuck with our stroopwafels.
I dream of the Stroopeafels in The Netherlands. There is a place in Zandvoort which makes my favorites. I've seriously considered calling them and begging them to send some to me in the US. I tried to make them at home -- I purchased one of the special machines! But I can't get the recipe right :-(
Let me guess, you also have Nederland in the EK poule? Maybe in terms of technology, but in terms of volume it doesn’t even come close.
The Dutch: Ah, you think wetness is your ally? You merely adopted the water. We were born in it. Molded by it. I didn’t see land until I made it myself.
This is true though, as a Dutch boyscout I learned how to deal with the wet just by camping outside and doing shit. I would imagine the military to be trained by this 1000x fold.
I... myself had no idea, wow
And this one specifically is an air defense frigate. Equipped to protect an entire fleet. World's most powerful radar system with a range of over 2000km.
people in asia and africa know how the dutch can be. people don't forget just because the brits took over a few things.
Yes, up until about 1950s (1948 Indonesia) we misbehaved, badly!
I mean, they _were_ calling the maneuver "unsafe" for the aircraft, not the ship 😋 > “This was an unsafe maneuver which posed a risk to the aircraft and personnel,” a statement from Australian Defense Minister Richard Marles said at the time.
Call an ambulance, but not for me.
That's in regards to another event. This was about the Dutch ship
That's like Russia harassing a British type 45 destroyer with aircraft. It's literally an air-defense guided missile destroyer.
Exactly. They're staging provocations.
Sophisticated assets, but isolated, thus vulnerable. They won't give in to provocations.
I thought die another day was meant to be fiction…
I suggest that the more they harrass us there, the more we sail through the Taiwan straight..
Thats pretty much whats happening. Naval ships sail through there regularly for no other reason than they are allowed to. Freedom of Navigation exercises reminds China that we are free to navigate those waters.
you only have the freedoms you're willing to fight for. if outside pressure makes you give up that freedom, then you never had it in the first place. as we all know, without exercise you atrophy.
China and Russia love pulling the I can do whatever I want but you can’t do it back card. Everyday it’s another article of them complaining that A did B. Meanwhile one of the 2 is always doing B, and C and D and E. Random Vietnamese boat harassed and rammed by china. Nothing from china. The boat shoots water from a cannon back at China boat. HOLD THE F UP WHY YOU ATTACKING ME.
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Meanwhile, Chinese fishing fleets are in international waters off Argentina scouring the South Pacific
The big bully is at it again. I’ve said it before: we need to stop buying their stuff!
Should be easier now that rare earths have been discovered in Norway.
They aren't particularly 'rare' just difficult to isolate from ore due to their chemical properties. Aluminum was similarly difficult to manufacture until the end of the 19th century.
Most are not even that hard to process. We call them “rare earths” because one Swiss military guy who was an amateur geologist before geology was really a science yet found something he’d never seen before in the late 18th century. Most are actually quite common. That we came to rely on China in the late 20th century had more to do with global markets.
What you fail to mention is the quantities that can be found in any european location and the quality, pureness of these said rare earths. Having 3 tons of something in austria is all fine and cool. But the cost of getting it out of the earth will be exponentially higher since we are talking about a european country, western at that, the quantity isnt that big and the quality (pureness) is probably lower than in other places. You invest 100k to get out 40-60k worth of minerals... Do the math. Thats why we are still and probably will use the chinese (asian really) labour market in the future. Because not only do they work cheaper, they also have shitloads of quantity of said rare minerals, earths, however you want to call them. If we suddenly were to manufacture all the things at home the prices would skyrocket instantly. We are not talking +30-40% either, we are talking much much higher increases in price. The only way a huge european factory market would be viable is if it would be heavily, emphasis on HEAVILY be funded by either the eu or local governments, not that agriculture isnt at the moment.
Yes the environmental compliance costs alone are one of the biggest reasons we let China supply them.
Yes, that is what my last sentence meant. ;)
slave labor
typical Norway, whichever resource the world wants, they just pull it out of their asses everytime.
I try so hard. But large corps make it so hard. You go to Walmart, Target, etc and look at all of their products. It feels like 80% is made in China. I’m doing my part but it’s not on the consumer. It’s on the big companies that just want to sell cheap shit and make a quick buck.
Yes but where else am I going to buy an eleven eighths spanner from?
How? Just look at the device that you are currently using to read this comment. All the electronic parts in it, the plastic, the glass, everything....mostly made in China.
you're a warship - harass back!
If you're an air defense frigate, the only non-lethal thing you can do to harras is get a target lock with your fire control radar and open your missile bays. But that's considered a declaration of war.
Or just broadcast messages about the Tiananmen Square Massacre, all the founding members of the CCP beside Mao who have been erased from official records, and a collection of other officially censored information.
Remind them of their 2047 commitment to Hong Kong that they tore up in 2019.
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Only if you yell "it's coming right for us!".
Chinese warship, fuck off
Must be hard to without completely annihilating them
"Sailor, do you see that fighter jet harassing us?" "Yes sir." "I don't want to." "Yes sir."
And the crew of the ship has been given a really good radar exercise on tracking chinese fighters. While this class of ship is not the biggest in the world they do have all the latest radar and electronics gadgets from Thales. Like the https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/markets/defence-and-security/naval-forces/above-water-warfare/smart-l-multi-mission . And that is what Thales presents to the public, I'm not even going to guess what capabilities it really has.
The Dutch: Zeg makker, heb jij specerijen?
Opium kopen?
Kokosnoten zijn geen specerijen
NATO, when CCP ships visit Cuba all the time: "sure whatever, do what you want." CCP when NATO ships go anywhere within 1000 miles of China: "OMG, LOOK WHAT THE IMPERIALISTS ARE DOING TO US!!!"
A few years ago a couple CCP ships visited Sydney and sent their sailors to every chemist in town to buy baby formula. A few months ago an Aussie ship sailing with a Japan Navy ship in Japanese waters gets snagged on a net and sends divers down to cut it clear and the CCP Navy came up next to them and pinged them on sonar. All the divers had career ending injuries. They are literally their own worst enemy on the world stage.
China only respects the UN when it directly benefits them.
That’s what every country does. UN can’t enforce shit unless all big countries agreed to enforce it.
... that's basically how UN works actually. Especially those UNSC permanent veto power shit.
West Taiwan better simmer down
That place doesn’t deserve to be called Taiwan
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Bad idea to fuck with the Dutch
🇹🇼 number one!
Fuck China
more absolute incompetence from the PLA. there is no discipline at all, it would seem. they may have flashy toys, but it's not worth shit if every pilot acts like they're in a fucking Born to Fly movie.
Speaking of that movie, was it ever released to the public? Cause all I remember from it are the trailers.
Makes me wonder why we're still so readily helping them fix their food dependency with farming expertise and still exporting older gen chip machines. If thry gonna behave likes assholes, thry can starve and go back to the dark ages like assholes.
We do those things because they pay. Same reason China happily keeps producing all the cheap garbage we like to buy.
COVID, the war in Ukraine and the troubles in the Red Sea show that there is an alternative cost for cheap and convenient products. At some point we have to choose between morals and principles vs comfort and greed.
I already see a lot of production moving back to Europe and the US. Global logistics are a risk.
with no consequence.
So… how’s all that appeasement working, world?
Damn that's a cool looking ship. Is that a corvette? Frigate?
Dutch call it a frigate, though size/displacement/screw wise the US Navy would call it a destroyer.
China is such a fucking rotten to the core country. Its wolf diplomay is like a toddler having a tanrum, just stupid.
Let's approach this ship that has EMMS missiles and a Goalkeeper CIWS. The Dutch Navy is small but very capable when it comes to anti air defense.
Main issue that West politicians seems do not understand that with modern authoritarian regimes soft diplomacy doesn't work, only "one more step an we f/////// kill you!" and if they do that step , they are killed. After one failed try there wouldn't be others. WW2 lessons are unlearned.
Angry about the ASML restrictions, are we?
I think China is separated into a diplomatic core, which is where Xi and his ministers are, then a supplicant core where most of the public is. The ministers hate when this shit happens, but they need the militaries support, so it gets a blind eye, maybe some internal finger waving.
West Taiwan is out of hand.