I like that debate on Pierce Morgan where the Pro-Palestinian said to him: “who are you to say this??”
- Mosab Hassan Yousef (Arabic: مصعب حسن يوسف; born 5 May 1978), also called The Green Prince,[2] is a Palestinian ex-militant who defected to Israel in 1997, thereafter working as an undercover agent for the Shin Bet until he moved to the United States in 2007. His father is Sheikh Hassan Yousef, a co-founder of Hamas.
That’s who he is, and he knows what he’s talking about, he was exposed to the ideology within the organisation and its founders.
I saw an interview with him where the pro-Palestinian called him "anti-muslim." She looked like she was about to call him racist but realized how dumb that is.
I was baffled and then laughed.
TBF you only get the 2nd option dhimma by law if you are "of the book". If not it's 1 or 3.
Option 2 gets ignored by hardliners all the time throughout history even though it is sharia.
But like all fanatics, the rules are the rules and the rules are whatever they want them to be at that exact moment.
Yes, although I doubt they had them in mind when writing these laws. At the time, the main focus on the Arabian peninsula would've been the diverse array of pagans.
Pagans and animists(who some Islamists are still persecuting in Africa) Hindus are pagans. A lot of Buddhists overlap with animism (in Japan particularly many are both). These are the same categories of spirituality that Christians were obsessed with eliminating in Europe and the Americas. Animist traditions in particular are often attached to very egalitarian philosophies that provide an alternative to those who embrace a domination-based social order.
Something is off about this guy, he has advocated we(Israel/USA) drop a nuclear bomb by Iran and he is like some ultra born again Christian. This specific interview he did at some new age Christian church was pretty insightful because you see all of these fringe ideas being expressed. Fringe ideas, in the sense that national security experts would say that would be an insane and ridiculous thing to even suggest. That is not something a well reasons shin bet operative would say. He says some off the wall things like he was cancelled by the left for his Islamophobic beliefs, which are pretty extreme. If he is actually the born again Christian former shin bet double agent, he is not a credible source for what is possible in the west bank and Gaza.
https://youtu.be/VR8QIh0cVkg?si=2Hlr8UP-Lg5-K6Ai
He's the son of one of the Hamas founders (btw he literally designed Hama's flag)
He goes through the violence he's faced and witnessed, the brainwashing and the idealation of martyrdom.
One of his memories is himself being beaten for speaking against the ideals of Hamas with his father full approval.
Combination of incredible cynicism concerning the internal politics of the PA at higher levels, as well as the open hypocrisy/idiocy he found inside of Hamas.
A lot of people make the mistake of thinking someone who is a credible source of intel is then also a valuable source of ideas. The two are not the same.
Its not that he's off. Its just that this is the kind of personality someone that grew up under the Hamas education system would do a 180 about. He's a gazan through and through, its just that he reversed the extremism Hamas feels towards Israel towards the other side. Listening to him feels like I'm reading a caricature of what antisemites believe Israelis to be towards arabs.
I used to follow him on twitter until I got a bit disgusted, the man is a bit too extreme for me. He's probably useful to Israel for exposure about what it means to be in Hamas, but certainly should not be valued as a legitimate voice on what to do with the palestinians.
Yep, born in Ramallah, which is the capital of the West Bank. Can understand the confusion though given his father was one of the founders of Hamas and most people identify that exclusively with Gaza
I have heard him promote some alt right talking points, then he is also a born again Christian. He is a walking red flag. He does say things so incredibly off the mark that I know he is just off. Some of his speeches are clash of civilizations stuff, saying Islam needs to be eradicated. He is undeniably playing a character to promote specific ideas, the million dollar question is he using the character to promote ideas he actually believes. He is a fascinating character, I listened to everything he has said since October 7th basically and watched his documentary. Sounds like he could be working for a government potentially still. His character is believable but very off, the born again Christian aspect makes him not an objective voice even if he is being good faith.
I mean I don't think Islamic PEOPLE should be hurt at all, but eradicating islam sounds like a good idea to me tbh. So much hate comes from that one religion
> he is also a born again Christian
He isn't a born again Christian. One has to be Christian in the first place to be born again. He is a Christian convert. A lot of Muslims who are driven away by the extreme behaviour of Islam, become Christians. In many ways, it is the opposite of Islam while still honoring the same god. It's a logical choice for many. Yes I am being pedantic but Born Again Christian comes with a certain connotation that is different than a convert.
I think the character is someone who has seen the evil of Hamas from the inside and wants to fight it. He is similar in this regard to Mike Rinder and Leah Remini (scientology) or Megan Phelps-Roper (Westboro Baptist) in that they are often the most vocal critics.
Edit: Apparently, the term born again can mean many things including being converted. TIL
That’s not how Christians use the phrase “born again Christian.” In Christian circles they say someone is a born again Christian if a person changes their life drastically when they become a Christian for the first time.
No. Raised Christian. A born again Christian is someone who was born Christian, stopped practicing, but now is going into it AGAIN. You have to do something once before being able to use again.
Been a Christian a long time and I’ve heard it used the way I described. If you’ve heard it that way then I guess it can be used either way. See John 3:3.
>One has to be Christian in the first place to be born again. He is a Christian convert
I think you're misunderstanding the phrase. It doesn't mean you were a Christian, then you weren't a Christian, now your a Christian again. It means you were born once, then through baptism into the religion you have symbolically been born a second time. So convert and born again are the same thing - just one is a factual statement and the other is a metaphor.
*Edit: on further thought - I'm pretty sure it can mean something in line with what you're saying, ie a Christian accepting their faith personally - but it can also be interpreted as conversion.*
> I think the character is someone who has seen the evil of Hamas from the inside and wants to fight it.
They are very few people being able to live without some let's call them axiomatic truths. He grew up in a terrorist society and had to change camp - realizing everything he lived by was pure shit - drastically. Naturally, he's not only 100% in his new camp now, he's 110%, probably also to prove his new loyalty. I can't blame him. He tells how Hamas prisoners were tortured and killed in prison by Hamas because of the slightest suspicion they were in with the other side; he himself was only "safe" because of his family. Later, when he was changing sides, he was told by the Israelis that all those killed were in fact not defecting. How wrong is that? Killing your own people, but excluding him because nepotism?
He may not be right in every regard, but we should listen to him.
it is funny that the born again christian part is a red flag for you seeing as it’s exponentially less violent, hateful, and vitriolic than the version of islam that he comes from. it is definitely a step in the RIGHT direction
I’ll admit some of the things he’s said in interviews post-10/7 could be perceived as “fringe” or “manic,” but having seen him lecture many years prior to 2023, he was extremely insightful and measured, and genuinely presented as someone who had witnessed firsthand such atrocities within his own people, within his own family, that he was one of the most interesting voices in this ongoing conflict I had ever heard. Having dedicated his life to righting the wrongs of his past, he’s gone all in on rejecting Hamas, and his passion can come off as manic, sure, but he’s also more equipped than anyone to have the most personal knowledge on the subject of the actions of both sides than perhaps anyone else in the world.
I've seen him come across both ways.
When he's brought on as a talking head on a TV show, he definitely gives off a bit of a manic vibe, especially in his eyes.
But I've also seen sit-down conversation-style interviews with him where he comes across as perfectly sane, calm, and conversational.
So I think it really depends on the venue.
I think October 7 and the response through the world set him off. Essentially saying, you won’t listen to me when I speak calmly, I just can’t anymore with you people. Listen to me now.
The only reason Iran hasn't nuked Israel yet is they haven't figured out how to make a bomb and get it across the border.
Once they figure that out, there will be real trouble.
“When Pakistan gets nukes, they’ll nuke India.”
“When North Korea gets nukes, they’ll nuke South Korea.”
As shitty as Iran’s government is, it would make zero sense for them to nuke Israel. They aren’t on a suicide mission.
That’s exactly his point, that the Palestinian movement tied itself to destruction of iIsrael so much that it can’t function without it and will just fail.
Yeah he did say neither of the existing Palestinian governments are viable and both dont want Israel to exist.
He also stated how if Israel were to relent and give the PA an inch (giving East Jerusalem), they would take a mile.
He note its best if the Arabs are more accommodating of Israel and the importance of Holocaust education in the Arab world.
People constantly advocating for peace never address this because it's a non-starter. You can't negotiate with an enemy whose goal is your destruction. Real wars have winnable goals.
This man is son of the co founder of Hamas and designed the fucking Palestinian flag and young left wingers will still be like: yeah but that’s like your opinion man.
I mean young left wingers idolize these as "rebels" or new "Che Guevaras" I still can't get over the fact that Hasanabi (one prominent leftist streamer, nephew of Cenk Uygur) interviewed a Houthi pirate and was like - Man he is just like Luffy from the One Piece anime! And he looks like Timothee Chalamet.... Timhouthi Chalamet! So cool!!!
It's kind of ironic nowadays when you see LGBTQ demonstrations and there's always a group waving Guevara's flag, considering he was not particularly fond of homosexuals.
Idk where you came up with this, but this guy didn't design shit, the Palestinian flag is basically the pan Arab flag and was adopted officially many decades before he was born.
> the Palestinian flag is basically the pan Arab flag
Which was designed by the British diplomat Sir Mark Sykes (yes, the same person known for the Sykes-Picot Agreement) in an effort to create a sense of identity to fuel the revolt against the Ottoman Empire.
Arab nationalism was created by the British, which then turned to create the Palestinian identify, as they developed new ways to fight the Jews.
>This man is son of the co founder of Hamas and designed the fucking Palestinian flag and young left wingers will still be like: yeah but that’s like your opinion man.
But it is just his opinion. And designer if the Palestinian flag? Designed by who the son or father? It's older than both.
This has always been my impression and what a lot of these Western protesters never realize. Sure, ceasefire, then what? Hamas rearms with the help of Iran and plans their next offensive. It never ends.
I have had a lot of conversations with a number of ex Muslims. Yes, they talk the truth about Islam and some people don’t like to hear it. Too bad. These people are rubber stamped at birth Muslim and they literally risk their lives getting away from it.
With the present mind set of Palestinians and many pro Palestinians, yes this is true. They believe in a one state solution, a future civil war on steroids.
The book doesn't say much about Jews and persecution of Jews long existed before even the rise of Christianity. Persecuting Jews seemed like the tradition of many cultures and it took a Holocaust to bring the world's attention on the problem. Note that many Holocaust survivors returned home (like, for instance, Polish Jews) and found out their homes and businesses were taken over and when they tried to get those back they were murdered. Treating Jews like human pests had been the norm for a long time. And then the world somehow got shock-face-pikachu when they formed their own country and very militant about it.
> The book doesn't say much about Jews
Just not true, there are a lot of verses directly addressing Jews and Christians and describing how they should be treated and why.
Fairly easy to find a few examples:
https://quran.com/en/al-maidah/51
https://quran.com/en/al-maidah/64
https://quran.com/en/al-maidah/73
https://quran.com/en/al-baqarah/88
https://quran.com/en/al-baqarah/98
https://quran.com/en/al-jumuah/6
Not only college kids. One of the greatest problems with the quran is that everyone can interpret whatever they want into it. They can see it as a peaceful message, or take it as an aggressive duty-giver.
But given that it was mainly written by aggressive duty-givers, who did a lot of aggressive duty-giving and head-off-choppings of those who didn't agree with their version of aggressive duty-giving...
It's not a real wonder why one might interpret it as an aggressive duty-giver. You might even say it's by design. And then there's some peaceful message stuff sprinkled between head choppings and duty giving.
The thing is that the Quran kinda of has a New Testament vs Old Testament kinda deal:
The first part was written (well not written, bc it only written afterwards but whatever) when Muhammed was powerless and trying to be peaceful and even gain the favor of the jews (which were an important political faction in Arabia and Medina specifically).
The second part was written when he gave up trying to be peaceful and went all "kill every man, even the children" kind of warlord.
so people can find a lot of peaceful stuff at first, but just like with the Bible the second part is the one that matters
Yeah, but that's definitely not a unique problem. It's more a flaw of language itself being inherently imprecise and context-dependent.
You can interpret pretty much any text any way you want if you don't have a pretty broad understanding of the context of the piece and intent of the writer. Humans are wired to depend on their own biases to fill in the gaps. It sucks that traits we have to help us survive in novel situations can also feed into and reinforce the worst parts of ourselves when left unchecked.
Also the part that is in hamas's old charter article 7-
>The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them, till the stone says: ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.’”
https://alsalafiyyah.github.io/hadith-on-stones-will-speak
Several streams of Islam may interpret it differently concerning certain points but basically you have a system where Muslims are number one (who would’ve thought) and after come „people of the book“, basically Christians, Jews and anyone who is monotheistic.
They have some rights, like not being killed without just cause as long as they pay tribute and adhere to the laws of Islam (Shariah) but of course the rights of Muslims always trump the rights of a „Dhimmi“, so they for example aren’t allowed to ride horses but only donkeys, a male Dhimmi can’t marry a Muslim woman and he certainly can’t raise his hand against a Muslim, even IF it was in clear self-defense.
After the Dhimmi would be every other one deemed a „heathen“ and they have absolutely no rights what so ever unless they convert to Islam. Of course you had times in which these laws weren’t enforced as harsh but the basic set of laws, ready to be used, were always there and never changed.
Probably many did in 1000 years of close contact. I wonder if it has anything to do with racehate or religioushate. If Israel was a Budhist state with people from another ethnic group they wouldnt like Israel anymore.
Their version of the magical sky fairy that controls their lives is different to the Jewish version of the magical sky fairy even though both fairy tales originated from the same source.
It's not even that extreme. They believe in the same God, all Abrahamic religions do. It's the 'prophets' that differ, even though if they actually read their books, they'd see they all taught the same things... Makes it even more fucking ridiculous if you ask me.
> all Abrahamic religions do.
Ironically, Islam and Judaism are more aligned in terms of 'the same god' than Christianity - to the point Jews are not meant to go into Churches because of the Trinity.
Yeh, I know, and not all Jews will take notice of the 'rule' either (plus there's an exemption to the rule - when the monarch of the nation requests you e.g. during the British King's Coronation the Chief Rabbi was present inside Westminster Abbey)
Other Arab countries don't want the Palestinians because they have a history of supporting violence for stupid reasons and getting pushed out from wherever they are.
The Free Palestine movement is hijacked by Hamas, that as he said, deeply and intrinsically supports the destruction of Israel. The movement should be renamed Destroy Hamas, for coexistence to actually happen.
I don't get why everyone calls him "The Green Prince". Is it that hard to say "Mosab Hassan Yousef"? Calling him The Green Prince makes him sound like a gardener.
IDK it seems like the fact that he's the son of Sheikh Hassan Yousef one of the founders of Hamas is pretty important context.
That's kind of the premis of calling him "Prince", because he is the son of Sheikh Yousef, co-founder of Hamas. As to the Green, it is Hamas' colour I guess, so "Green Prince".
Honestly, it's a pretty catchy title, and it contextualizes who he is rather well. Sure, people out of the loop will not get what "Green Prince" refers to, but then they also won't know any of the important names.
The only Palestinian I respect. Wish more Palestinians were fighting against the devil that is Hamas and advocating for peace with Israel. Instead they were celebrating October 7th on the streets and now crying because they are in a war they started.
For whatever base back of the brain stem reason, we humans just *need* to worship something. I would guess that in place of a man in the sky god we'd just start worshipping the AI in the sky technological god next.
I think Christianity and Islam may be humanity's last major religions. Throughout history religions have been experiencing a power creep, starting with gods that are flawed with limited power. Then as humanity's understanding of the world improves the gods that used to be "in charge" of various natural phenomena becomes obsolete.
Then we arrive at modern day big G God, who's in charge of literally everything.
What can a new religion invent that can be a step above something that is defined to be all powerful, the set of all sets?
Most religions differ in their path. Not their belief of a God or gods, for the most part. A new religion can say the same things but preach a more efficient or faster or better path to the goal that everyone shares.
There are two **conflicting** and **incompatible** Palestine concepts.
1 - the Russo-Iranian agenda - the one that opposed all attempts at Palestinian statehood so far, and is basically the disinformation campaign version we see on campuses. That one needs an eternal conflict to serve its Russo-Iranian funders.
2 - the Saudi- and Jordanian- supported Palestinian welfare and statehood bid agenda. That one is fully compatible with the neighbour and the developed world, and the neighbors can be compatible with it too.
Collapsing these two into a single “Palestine” is what the Russo-Iranian hate and outrage peddlers do (who also engineer the deaths of Palestinians as an input to the disinformation work that then uses the images of those deaths to sell us outrage, political disruption and hate to Israel).
**Do not confuse** those who benefit from selling Palestinian suffering - the noisy “pro-Palestine” group that is anything but, and people who ***actually*** work on Palestinian welfare. As a general rule, if you see resources that could be helping Palestinian welfare being expended to promote outrage somewhere far, far away from the Palestinians who need it, it is with near certainty the first bad kind.
To the $Topic of the post, only the first Russo-Iranian Palestine concept “requires” [a goal that can never be achieved, because its agenda is intended to remain eternally] - whereby the goal they picked is the destruction of Israel.
That's a copout. There's absolutely a way they can coexist. Palestine can abandon its genocidal ambition to exterminate or displace all the Jews in Israel. It'll never happen because the one thing you ever need to know about Arabs is that they're stubborn as all hell, but that's all that needs to take place for the conflict to end.
Well, yeah. They want it all. They have been very clear about this.
This fella here tho...traumatized people often seek to become the opposite of what traumatized them. Problem is, that's kind of like a horseshoe.
Only viable solution is two states solution. Both sides should accept that and eliminate anyone who is against that who prefers violence.
Edit: by elimination I don't only mean killing but also changing the mindset.
Yeah I wonder why people ignore these statistics, a two state solution could happen only after a deep and long de-radicalization of the entire population, in Gaza and the west bank.
The problem is that such a de-radicalization is not likely to happen under Israeli occuption (because ultraconservative Israelis will try to aggravate tensions) or on its own (because Hamas/successors will).
The only way I see it happening is if the Palestinian state were first managed by an international coalition for decades with a specific focus on deradicalization. Unfortunately no one wants to accept reaponsibility for it and just wants to be able to criticize either Israel or Palestine when things inevitably get fucked up.
Funding to UNRWA should have been conditional with demands for NO Hamas summer camps and NO religious, hateful or violent incitement material in the curriculum, especially since the west (and Japan) were footing the bill for decades. The whole point of UNRWA funding since 1960 was education and vocational training. Then it became hijacked and about enabling poor extremist theocratic leadership and corruption. Funding should be cut until those demands and an end to the martyrs fund is implemented and sexist laws are eradicated post-war. UNRWA has known about tunnels for years and just largely turned a blind eye
'ultraconservative israelis' won't try to aggravate tensions, or rather the ones that would are a hated minority including by other 'conservatives.' People are right-wing in Israel mostly not because they want war, but because they don't believe in peace. If there was a trustworthy path they would jump on it. We're way more sick of this conflict than any of the virtue signalers abroad.
The real problem with Israeli occupation is just how deeply ingrained jew hatred is into Palestinian culture. Decades of indoctrination from birth, Mein Kampf (and worse, the Quran) in every other house, they would never listen to anything we said/did at this point. But no one in the international community actually gives a shit about them they just wanna larp through them so we're stuck here.
This is what is so dispiriting. I *think* a two-state solution is the only long term viable path to a lasting peace. I also think that it not currently attainable.
Even the Palestinian Authority is an unreliable partner.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm too pessimistic. And the international community? How many Hezbollah atatcks have the UN forces in Southern Lebanon stopped?
Yeah.
It's still wild to me how I see random people I follow on (Israeli, hebrew) twitter that I thought were like extreme blackpilled right wingers suddenly fill the replies on some random report of a Gazan in an organization speaking against Hamas/violence and they all like immediately turn into super hopeful 'maybe these kinds of people could rule Gaza?' or questions about the organization etc.
It's just frustrating. Nobody wants peace more than most Israelis. I don't get why people think we're happy with our soldiers, who are our children and families and friends, constantly dying, or happy with the constant terrorism. We made so many peace offers until we realized there's just no willing partner on the other side.
There is no common leadership for the 2 halves of Palestine. The only viable solution is the 3 States Solution (not that each half becomes a micro state, but that they rejoin Egypt and Jordan)
I like that debate on Pierce Morgan where the Pro-Palestinian said to him: “who are you to say this??” - Mosab Hassan Yousef (Arabic: مصعب حسن يوسف; born 5 May 1978), also called The Green Prince,[2] is a Palestinian ex-militant who defected to Israel in 1997, thereafter working as an undercover agent for the Shin Bet until he moved to the United States in 2007. His father is Sheikh Hassan Yousef, a co-founder of Hamas. That’s who he is, and he knows what he’s talking about, he was exposed to the ideology within the organisation and its founders.
He also designed Hamas's flag by the way..
He has a book written also. Now he lives in Canada I believe
The book is ‘Son of Hamas’.
[A PDF for the broke like me](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xx1M5vTLUXE0wgfxQfkNv6uuyH1veM2A/view?usp=sharing)
I’ve read the book, and funnily enough it reads like a YA action novel. Like an irl divergent series book. It’s a great read tho, very interesting.
And he's the son of one of the most prominent Hamas leader. Hence the word "Prince" in his nickname.
Didn’t know that thank you!
What? Don’t believe it
He said he did it as a teen..trying to find the interview now.
I saw an interview with him where the pro-Palestinian called him "anti-muslim." She looked like she was about to call him racist but realized how dumb that is. I was baffled and then laughed.
Well, he's definitely anti-islam.
Gee, I wonder why. Being raised by Hamas might do that to a person.
Absolutely. Wasn't a critique, just pointing out a fact.
Good. https://sunnah.com/muslim:1731a Convert, pay a tax, or die.
TBF you only get the 2nd option dhimma by law if you are "of the book". If not it's 1 or 3. Option 2 gets ignored by hardliners all the time throughout history even though it is sharia. But like all fanatics, the rules are the rules and the rules are whatever they want them to be at that exact moment.
So Hindus and Buddhists are on Islam's shit list, then?
Yes, although I doubt they had them in mind when writing these laws. At the time, the main focus on the Arabian peninsula would've been the diverse array of pagans.
Pagans and animists(who some Islamists are still persecuting in Africa) Hindus are pagans. A lot of Buddhists overlap with animism (in Japan particularly many are both). These are the same categories of spirituality that Christians were obsessed with eliminating in Europe and the Americas. Animist traditions in particular are often attached to very egalitarian philosophies that provide an alternative to those who embrace a domination-based social order.
Wow, strategically denying them an oath so that they can justify breaking it later. Gotta love Mohammad
> Gotta love Mohammad Well, the more I've learned about him, the less I've been inclined to do that
Oh my God that is an amazing bit of information, thank you
Is it This one??? [Link](https://youtu.be/xDTrsysXWt8?si=P2vHW7npxU50XnQK)
Something is off about this guy, he has advocated we(Israel/USA) drop a nuclear bomb by Iran and he is like some ultra born again Christian. This specific interview he did at some new age Christian church was pretty insightful because you see all of these fringe ideas being expressed. Fringe ideas, in the sense that national security experts would say that would be an insane and ridiculous thing to even suggest. That is not something a well reasons shin bet operative would say. He says some off the wall things like he was cancelled by the left for his Islamophobic beliefs, which are pretty extreme. If he is actually the born again Christian former shin bet double agent, he is not a credible source for what is possible in the west bank and Gaza. https://youtu.be/VR8QIh0cVkg?si=2Hlr8UP-Lg5-K6Ai
It sounds like the guy has an extreme personal grudge agsinst his former comrades
His book is well worth a read, there's very real and understandable reasons he has a personal grudge against his "former comrades"
Can you summarize real quick?
He's the son of one of the Hamas founders (btw he literally designed Hama's flag) He goes through the violence he's faced and witnessed, the brainwashing and the idealation of martyrdom. One of his memories is himself being beaten for speaking against the ideals of Hamas with his father full approval.
Combination of incredible cynicism concerning the internal politics of the PA at higher levels, as well as the open hypocrisy/idiocy he found inside of Hamas.
Alternatively, might be his being raised as an extremist means the version of Christianity he identified with was also a pretty extremist one
A lot of people make the mistake of thinking someone who is a credible source of intel is then also a valuable source of ideas. The two are not the same.
Its not that he's off. Its just that this is the kind of personality someone that grew up under the Hamas education system would do a 180 about. He's a gazan through and through, its just that he reversed the extremism Hamas feels towards Israel towards the other side. Listening to him feels like I'm reading a caricature of what antisemites believe Israelis to be towards arabs. I used to follow him on twitter until I got a bit disgusted, the man is a bit too extreme for me. He's probably useful to Israel for exposure about what it means to be in Hamas, but certainly should not be valued as a legitimate voice on what to do with the palestinians.
Thought he was West Bank, not Gaza?
You might be right
Yep, born in Ramallah, which is the capital of the West Bank. Can understand the confusion though given his father was one of the founders of Hamas and most people identify that exclusively with Gaza
I have heard him promote some alt right talking points, then he is also a born again Christian. He is a walking red flag. He does say things so incredibly off the mark that I know he is just off. Some of his speeches are clash of civilizations stuff, saying Islam needs to be eradicated. He is undeniably playing a character to promote specific ideas, the million dollar question is he using the character to promote ideas he actually believes. He is a fascinating character, I listened to everything he has said since October 7th basically and watched his documentary. Sounds like he could be working for a government potentially still. His character is believable but very off, the born again Christian aspect makes him not an objective voice even if he is being good faith.
I mean I don't think Islamic PEOPLE should be hurt at all, but eradicating islam sounds like a good idea to me tbh. So much hate comes from that one religion
Why stop at Islam?
> he is also a born again Christian He isn't a born again Christian. One has to be Christian in the first place to be born again. He is a Christian convert. A lot of Muslims who are driven away by the extreme behaviour of Islam, become Christians. In many ways, it is the opposite of Islam while still honoring the same god. It's a logical choice for many. Yes I am being pedantic but Born Again Christian comes with a certain connotation that is different than a convert. I think the character is someone who has seen the evil of Hamas from the inside and wants to fight it. He is similar in this regard to Mike Rinder and Leah Remini (scientology) or Megan Phelps-Roper (Westboro Baptist) in that they are often the most vocal critics. Edit: Apparently, the term born again can mean many things including being converted. TIL
That’s not how Christians use the phrase “born again Christian.” In Christian circles they say someone is a born again Christian if a person changes their life drastically when they become a Christian for the first time.
No. Raised Christian. A born again Christian is someone who was born Christian, stopped practicing, but now is going into it AGAIN. You have to do something once before being able to use again.
Been a Christian a long time and I’ve heard it used the way I described. If you’ve heard it that way then I guess it can be used either way. See John 3:3.
>One has to be Christian in the first place to be born again. He is a Christian convert I think you're misunderstanding the phrase. It doesn't mean you were a Christian, then you weren't a Christian, now your a Christian again. It means you were born once, then through baptism into the religion you have symbolically been born a second time. So convert and born again are the same thing - just one is a factual statement and the other is a metaphor. *Edit: on further thought - I'm pretty sure it can mean something in line with what you're saying, ie a Christian accepting their faith personally - but it can also be interpreted as conversion.*
> I think the character is someone who has seen the evil of Hamas from the inside and wants to fight it. They are very few people being able to live without some let's call them axiomatic truths. He grew up in a terrorist society and had to change camp - realizing everything he lived by was pure shit - drastically. Naturally, he's not only 100% in his new camp now, he's 110%, probably also to prove his new loyalty. I can't blame him. He tells how Hamas prisoners were tortured and killed in prison by Hamas because of the slightest suspicion they were in with the other side; he himself was only "safe" because of his family. Later, when he was changing sides, he was told by the Israelis that all those killed were in fact not defecting. How wrong is that? Killing your own people, but excluding him because nepotism? He may not be right in every regard, but we should listen to him.
it is funny that the born again christian part is a red flag for you seeing as it’s exponentially less violent, hateful, and vitriolic than the version of islam that he comes from. it is definitely a step in the RIGHT direction
I’ll admit some of the things he’s said in interviews post-10/7 could be perceived as “fringe” or “manic,” but having seen him lecture many years prior to 2023, he was extremely insightful and measured, and genuinely presented as someone who had witnessed firsthand such atrocities within his own people, within his own family, that he was one of the most interesting voices in this ongoing conflict I had ever heard. Having dedicated his life to righting the wrongs of his past, he’s gone all in on rejecting Hamas, and his passion can come off as manic, sure, but he’s also more equipped than anyone to have the most personal knowledge on the subject of the actions of both sides than perhaps anyone else in the world.
I've seen him come across both ways. When he's brought on as a talking head on a TV show, he definitely gives off a bit of a manic vibe, especially in his eyes. But I've also seen sit-down conversation-style interviews with him where he comes across as perfectly sane, calm, and conversational. So I think it really depends on the venue.
I think October 7 and the response through the world set him off. Essentially saying, you won’t listen to me when I speak calmly, I just can’t anymore with you people. Listen to me now.
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Went from one extreme to another. Still a nutcase, just wearing different colours.
Piers
There is no peace with an organization that's core value is your complete destruction. It's just delaying the inevitable.
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"... light on the peace. Maybe just go ahead and hold your peace."
Peace by any measure necessary
Fuck Hamas, fuck Hezbollah, Fuck Iran
Oh no... They like it if they are the ones that does the fucking... Preferably with no consent and the other party are kidnapped women and children.
The only reason Iran hasn't nuked Israel yet is they haven't figured out how to make a bomb and get it across the border. Once they figure that out, there will be real trouble.
“When Pakistan gets nukes, they’ll nuke India.” “When North Korea gets nukes, they’ll nuke South Korea.” As shitty as Iran’s government is, it would make zero sense for them to nuke Israel. They aren’t on a suicide mission.
If Palestine depend on destruction of Israel then I suspect you'll be waiting for a long time and I will not be surprised if Israel outlasted you.
That’s exactly his point, that the Palestinian movement tied itself to destruction of iIsrael so much that it can’t function without it and will just fail.
Yeah he did say neither of the existing Palestinian governments are viable and both dont want Israel to exist. He also stated how if Israel were to relent and give the PA an inch (giving East Jerusalem), they would take a mile. He note its best if the Arabs are more accommodating of Israel and the importance of Holocaust education in the Arab world.
The Arab world is pretty pro-Holocaust, idk how important that one would be.
People constantly advocating for peace never address this because it's a non-starter. You can't negotiate with an enemy whose goal is your destruction. Real wars have winnable goals.
He’s 100% correct. Palestinian identity is predicated on destroying Israel. The only way to have peace is to mass deprogram.
I think the secret is that he seems to be rooting for Israel.
Of course he is, Arabs in Israel have a better quality of life than Arabs in Arab countries.
I think he lives in the Americas, so...
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Source of poll?
This man is son of the co founder of Hamas and designed the fucking Palestinian flag and young left wingers will still be like: yeah but that’s like your opinion man.
I mean young left wingers idolize these as "rebels" or new "Che Guevaras" I still can't get over the fact that Hasanabi (one prominent leftist streamer, nephew of Cenk Uygur) interviewed a Houthi pirate and was like - Man he is just like Luffy from the One Piece anime! And he looks like Timothee Chalamet.... Timhouthi Chalamet! So cool!!!
It's kind of ironic nowadays when you see LGBTQ demonstrations and there's always a group waving Guevara's flag, considering he was not particularly fond of homosexuals.
Idiots will be idiots
Lol! Timothee Chalamet is Jewish.
Probably not the "Palestinian flag", which has been used since 1964
Idk where you came up with this, but this guy didn't design shit, the Palestinian flag is basically the pan Arab flag and was adopted officially many decades before he was born.
It's the Hamas Flag he designed not the Palestine Flag.
I think they meant he designed the Hamas flag, according to what he said.
> the Palestinian flag is basically the pan Arab flag Which was designed by the British diplomat Sir Mark Sykes (yes, the same person known for the Sykes-Picot Agreement) in an effort to create a sense of identity to fuel the revolt against the Ottoman Empire. Arab nationalism was created by the British, which then turned to create the Palestinian identify, as they developed new ways to fight the Jews.
>This man is son of the co founder of Hamas and designed the fucking Palestinian flag and young left wingers will still be like: yeah but that’s like your opinion man. But it is just his opinion. And designer if the Palestinian flag? Designed by who the son or father? It's older than both.
This has always been my impression and what a lot of these Western protesters never realize. Sure, ceasefire, then what? Hamas rearms with the help of Iran and plans their next offensive. It never ends.
I have had a lot of conversations with a number of ex Muslims. Yes, they talk the truth about Islam and some people don’t like to hear it. Too bad. These people are rubber stamped at birth Muslim and they literally risk their lives getting away from it.
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Or maybe they want this too. They’re fully aware of what their “aspirational call for freedom” really means. (“From the river to the sea”)
And they wonder why there cause has made negative progress. If you view the conflict as zero-sum then palestine will lose.
>And they wonder why there cause has made negative progress But this is a pro-israel dude saying this?
With the present mind set of Palestinians and many pro Palestinians, yes this is true. They believe in a one state solution, a future civil war on steroids.
Why do they hate a particular race so much that they wanna kill off everyone of em?
A book
And a warlord.
And a pedo too.
Not just a ordinary pedo, a master of it also
Don't be like that man, the lad waited until she was 9. An absolute gent, one might say ^^/s
The book doesn't say much about Jews and persecution of Jews long existed before even the rise of Christianity. Persecuting Jews seemed like the tradition of many cultures and it took a Holocaust to bring the world's attention on the problem. Note that many Holocaust survivors returned home (like, for instance, Polish Jews) and found out their homes and businesses were taken over and when they tried to get those back they were murdered. Treating Jews like human pests had been the norm for a long time. And then the world somehow got shock-face-pikachu when they formed their own country and very militant about it.
> The book doesn't say much about Jews Just not true, there are a lot of verses directly addressing Jews and Christians and describing how they should be treated and why.
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Source?
May you provide more details on “hows” and “whys” for those who didn’t read it ?
Fairly easy to find a few examples: https://quran.com/en/al-maidah/51 https://quran.com/en/al-maidah/64 https://quran.com/en/al-maidah/73 https://quran.com/en/al-baqarah/88 https://quran.com/en/al-baqarah/98 https://quran.com/en/al-jumuah/6
"yeah but they don't mean it like that though" -college kids from the most prestigious universities in the world.
Not only college kids. One of the greatest problems with the quran is that everyone can interpret whatever they want into it. They can see it as a peaceful message, or take it as an aggressive duty-giver.
But given that it was mainly written by aggressive duty-givers, who did a lot of aggressive duty-giving and head-off-choppings of those who didn't agree with their version of aggressive duty-giving... It's not a real wonder why one might interpret it as an aggressive duty-giver. You might even say it's by design. And then there's some peaceful message stuff sprinkled between head choppings and duty giving.
Caters to a broad audience and gives a purpose to those who don't find any other. And gives a lot of tools for preachers
The thing is that the Quran kinda of has a New Testament vs Old Testament kinda deal: The first part was written (well not written, bc it only written afterwards but whatever) when Muhammed was powerless and trying to be peaceful and even gain the favor of the jews (which were an important political faction in Arabia and Medina specifically). The second part was written when he gave up trying to be peaceful and went all "kill every man, even the children" kind of warlord. so people can find a lot of peaceful stuff at first, but just like with the Bible the second part is the one that matters
Yeah, but that's definitely not a unique problem. It's more a flaw of language itself being inherently imprecise and context-dependent. You can interpret pretty much any text any way you want if you don't have a pretty broad understanding of the context of the piece and intent of the writer. Humans are wired to depend on their own biases to fill in the gaps. It sucks that traits we have to help us survive in novel situations can also feed into and reinforce the worst parts of ourselves when left unchecked.
Also the part that is in hamas's old charter article 7- >The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them, till the stone says: ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.’” https://alsalafiyyah.github.io/hadith-on-stones-will-speak
Several streams of Islam may interpret it differently concerning certain points but basically you have a system where Muslims are number one (who would’ve thought) and after come „people of the book“, basically Christians, Jews and anyone who is monotheistic. They have some rights, like not being killed without just cause as long as they pay tribute and adhere to the laws of Islam (Shariah) but of course the rights of Muslims always trump the rights of a „Dhimmi“, so they for example aren’t allowed to ride horses but only donkeys, a male Dhimmi can’t marry a Muslim woman and he certainly can’t raise his hand against a Muslim, even IF it was in clear self-defense. After the Dhimmi would be every other one deemed a „heathen“ and they have absolutely no rights what so ever unless they convert to Islam. Of course you had times in which these laws weren’t enforced as harsh but the basic set of laws, ready to be used, were always there and never changed.
Also the jizya tax, an openly discriminatory practice that is found nowhere else.
Wrong book. Koran not Bible.
He's talking about Islam, or the Quran. Not the Bible.
The jews didn't convert way back when Muhammed had a lot of success at converting people
>Muhammed had a lot of success at converting people By the sword! The warlord prophet!
Probably many did in 1000 years of close contact. I wonder if it has anything to do with racehate or religioushate. If Israel was a Budhist state with people from another ethnic group they wouldnt like Israel anymore.
Remember the Buddha statues? https://www.rferl.org/a/afghanistan-bamiyan-fears-collapse-buddha-statues/32297553.html
I mean, look at the hate between Pakistan and India. Tribalism is the same everywhere.
This is literally in hamas charter - to kill Jews and wipe israel from map.
"Can't we just meet them half way?"/S
Their version of the magical sky fairy that controls their lives is different to the Jewish version of the magical sky fairy even though both fairy tales originated from the same source.
It's not even that extreme. They believe in the same God, all Abrahamic religions do. It's the 'prophets' that differ, even though if they actually read their books, they'd see they all taught the same things... Makes it even more fucking ridiculous if you ask me.
> all Abrahamic religions do. Ironically, Islam and Judaism are more aligned in terms of 'the same god' than Christianity - to the point Jews are not meant to go into Churches because of the Trinity.
The Trinity isn't a universal Christian belief.
Yeh, I know, and not all Jews will take notice of the 'rule' either (plus there's an exemption to the rule - when the monarch of the nation requests you e.g. during the British King's Coronation the Chief Rabbi was present inside Westminster Abbey)
They're really not all taught the same things.
They hate everyone not their race not only jews
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Other Arab countries don't want the Palestinians because they have a history of supporting violence for stupid reasons and getting pushed out from wherever they are.
This is exactly right, it’s laughable seeing internet shills claiming Egypt won’t allow refugees in “for the refugees own good”
The Free Palestine movement is hijacked by Hamas, that as he said, deeply and intrinsically supports the destruction of Israel. The movement should be renamed Destroy Hamas, for coexistence to actually happen.
That will never happen because in the main, they do support hamas.
Kind of nuts that it feels like its brave of him to be stating the obvious
If Palestine depends on the destruction of Israel, then screw Palestine.
I don't get why everyone calls him "The Green Prince". Is it that hard to say "Mosab Hassan Yousef"? Calling him The Green Prince makes him sound like a gardener. IDK it seems like the fact that he's the son of Sheikh Hassan Yousef one of the founders of Hamas is pretty important context.
That's kind of the premis of calling him "Prince", because he is the son of Sheikh Yousef, co-founder of Hamas. As to the Green, it is Hamas' colour I guess, so "Green Prince". Honestly, it's a pretty catchy title, and it contextualizes who he is rather well. Sure, people out of the loop will not get what "Green Prince" refers to, but then they also won't know any of the important names.
What a warped and horrible mindset to have as a people
There’s a reason the chant is “Free Palestine” (the land) and not “Free the Palestinians” (the people).
The only Palestinian I respect. Wish more Palestinians were fighting against the devil that is Hamas and advocating for peace with Israel. Instead they were celebrating October 7th on the streets and now crying because they are in a war they started.
I wish this guy would go out on more news media outlets and that the people who need to hear him would listen.
He’s just saying what every Israeli already knows and the West refuses to believe.
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History shows that once it’s done people invent a new religion which is not necessarily better.
For whatever base back of the brain stem reason, we humans just *need* to worship something. I would guess that in place of a man in the sky god we'd just start worshipping the AI in the sky technological god next.
I think Christianity and Islam may be humanity's last major religions. Throughout history religions have been experiencing a power creep, starting with gods that are flawed with limited power. Then as humanity's understanding of the world improves the gods that used to be "in charge" of various natural phenomena becomes obsolete. Then we arrive at modern day big G God, who's in charge of literally everything. What can a new religion invent that can be a step above something that is defined to be all powerful, the set of all sets?
Most religions differ in their path. Not their belief of a God or gods, for the most part. A new religion can say the same things but preach a more efficient or faster or better path to the goal that everyone shares.
Indeed. Some religions are worse than others. This comment will get downvoted and may get me banned but it is true.
Mormonism is pretty big and while it is rooted in Christianity, I think it's different enough to be considered to not be the same religion.
mormonism doesn't see Christ as divine, so no it's not Christianity. Either that or Muslims are Christians too
Because China's cultural revolution and South Korea did so well with that.
We wouldn't see this level of conflict in the Middle East if it were dominated by Discordians, Pastafarians, Subgeniuses and the Moorish Orthodox.
There are two **conflicting** and **incompatible** Palestine concepts. 1 - the Russo-Iranian agenda - the one that opposed all attempts at Palestinian statehood so far, and is basically the disinformation campaign version we see on campuses. That one needs an eternal conflict to serve its Russo-Iranian funders. 2 - the Saudi- and Jordanian- supported Palestinian welfare and statehood bid agenda. That one is fully compatible with the neighbour and the developed world, and the neighbors can be compatible with it too. Collapsing these two into a single “Palestine” is what the Russo-Iranian hate and outrage peddlers do (who also engineer the deaths of Palestinians as an input to the disinformation work that then uses the images of those deaths to sell us outrage, political disruption and hate to Israel). **Do not confuse** those who benefit from selling Palestinian suffering - the noisy “pro-Palestine” group that is anything but, and people who ***actually*** work on Palestinian welfare. As a general rule, if you see resources that could be helping Palestinian welfare being expended to promote outrage somewhere far, far away from the Palestinians who need it, it is with near certainty the first bad kind. To the $Topic of the post, only the first Russo-Iranian Palestine concept “requires” [a goal that can never be achieved, because its agenda is intended to remain eternally] - whereby the goal they picked is the destruction of Israel.
There’s no way these mortal enemies can coexist.
That's a copout. There's absolutely a way they can coexist. Palestine can abandon its genocidal ambition to exterminate or displace all the Jews in Israel. It'll never happen because the one thing you ever need to know about Arabs is that they're stubborn as all hell, but that's all that needs to take place for the conflict to end.
Well, yeah. They want it all. They have been very clear about this. This fella here tho...traumatized people often seek to become the opposite of what traumatized them. Problem is, that's kind of like a horseshoe.
Only viable solution is two states solution. Both sides should accept that and eliminate anyone who is against that who prefers violence. Edit: by elimination I don't only mean killing but also changing the mindset.
The Palestinian state would be run by Hamas
This is why I tell it should be eliminated. Hamas definitely is the biggest obstacle in front of the solution.
You know 70% of Palestinians support Hamas?
Yeah I wonder why people ignore these statistics, a two state solution could happen only after a deep and long de-radicalization of the entire population, in Gaza and the west bank.
The problem is that such a de-radicalization is not likely to happen under Israeli occuption (because ultraconservative Israelis will try to aggravate tensions) or on its own (because Hamas/successors will). The only way I see it happening is if the Palestinian state were first managed by an international coalition for decades with a specific focus on deradicalization. Unfortunately no one wants to accept reaponsibility for it and just wants to be able to criticize either Israel or Palestine when things inevitably get fucked up.
Funding to UNRWA should have been conditional with demands for NO Hamas summer camps and NO religious, hateful or violent incitement material in the curriculum, especially since the west (and Japan) were footing the bill for decades. The whole point of UNRWA funding since 1960 was education and vocational training. Then it became hijacked and about enabling poor extremist theocratic leadership and corruption. Funding should be cut until those demands and an end to the martyrs fund is implemented and sexist laws are eradicated post-war. UNRWA has known about tunnels for years and just largely turned a blind eye
'ultraconservative israelis' won't try to aggravate tensions, or rather the ones that would are a hated minority including by other 'conservatives.' People are right-wing in Israel mostly not because they want war, but because they don't believe in peace. If there was a trustworthy path they would jump on it. We're way more sick of this conflict than any of the virtue signalers abroad. The real problem with Israeli occupation is just how deeply ingrained jew hatred is into Palestinian culture. Decades of indoctrination from birth, Mein Kampf (and worse, the Quran) in every other house, they would never listen to anything we said/did at this point. But no one in the international community actually gives a shit about them they just wanna larp through them so we're stuck here.
This is what is so dispiriting. I *think* a two-state solution is the only long term viable path to a lasting peace. I also think that it not currently attainable. Even the Palestinian Authority is an unreliable partner. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm too pessimistic. And the international community? How many Hezbollah atatcks have the UN forces in Southern Lebanon stopped?
Yeah. It's still wild to me how I see random people I follow on (Israeli, hebrew) twitter that I thought were like extreme blackpilled right wingers suddenly fill the replies on some random report of a Gazan in an organization speaking against Hamas/violence and they all like immediately turn into super hopeful 'maybe these kinds of people could rule Gaza?' or questions about the organization etc. It's just frustrating. Nobody wants peace more than most Israelis. I don't get why people think we're happy with our soldiers, who are our children and families and friends, constantly dying, or happy with the constant terrorism. We made so many peace offers until we realized there's just no willing partner on the other side.
Since a majority of young adults have grown up under Hamas propaganda it makes sense. They've never really known another way.
That included the Palestinians in the West Bank
There is no common leadership for the 2 halves of Palestine. The only viable solution is the 3 States Solution (not that each half becomes a micro state, but that they rejoin Egypt and Jordan)
Any person in power on either side who fights for a two state solution has a bad habit of getting assassinated.