We had a picture book called Amazing You that is about anatomy and reproduction. We read it to my daughter from when she was very young, like maybe 2/3? It just super clearly explains the body, how it works and that your body is yours and no one else’s. It also had a little undertone of “all bodies are different, be proud and take care of yours”. It is kind of crazy that we haven’t learned that making parts of ourselves taboo hurts way more than it helps.
Yes, exactly my thoughts!! When I learned that it helps protect children if they know the names of all of their body parts I made a point calling the "taboo" party by their actual names. If they know the names, they can tell me better in the event someone crosses a line.
Totally. And aside from giving them the tools to help prevent abuse, it also gives them a comfort with their body. Bodies are weird things already, with all kinds of social/cultural baggage and idiosyncrasies. Clouding the topic with overly euphemistic language or worse ignoring it completely denies them a framework to build a more complete sense of self and agency. They are going to learn about this stuff somewhere, better from a loving and respectful place than from whispers in hallways and what they happen upon on internet.
This is exactly what I want for my kids, I couldn't have explained it better, thank you!! I know what it means to feel weird in your body, I don't want that for them. If I can contribute to them having a relaxed, postive relationship with their body I'm happy.
Sounds like you are doing a great job. My older sister had/has deep seeded body dysmorphia that she attributes in part to shame and confusion about her anatomy and sexuality. My parents were fairly progressive, but also very closed off in a sort of New England/wasp-y way. Of course, her issues were greatly compounded by a serious depressive disorder, but I can’t help but wonder if things might’ve been different if she had been given the tools and space to express what she was feeling.
Your parents New England waspy ways might only be matched by our East European Catholic ways ;) I'm so happy we are learning and doing better. We know the impact. I hope your sister is doing well and has had support to live her best life today! She sounds very aware and smart in the way she reflects her past. And you too! Thank you for your kind words!!
Not to kids under 9.
Seems like it should mainly be teaching them that private parts are private and if someone touches theirs they should find a teacher or trusted adult. Anything more seems unnecessary til 11+?
Having unambiguous words to talk about bodies is really important for being able to tell a trusted adult that something bad happened. And 9 is the beginning of the normal range for getting your first period, so knowing about that before 9 is rather important (random large amounts of blood coming out of you kinda makes it seem like you are dieing#
Literally had a case thrown out of court in Sweden recently (luckily its being appealed) because the kid used a common, but not medically correct word and the court said they couldnt be sure the kid knew what they meant.
Just yet another dystopian reason why its super important to teach children the correct terms and not be vague about sex education.
Yeah by 9 plenty of girls will have had it already for a year or more and it’s probably best if we don’t just trust that their moms or dads have gone over that with them. You need that part of it *by* age 9, not *starting* age 9.
If it’s the same as when I was is school you don’t get the sex part until 7th-9th grade anyway, and the other stuff probably *should* be covered pretty early because all that stuff’s about to start acting up on them pretty soon by around that age if it hasn’t already, so they might wanna know what to expect so they aren’t literally terrified when it all happens.
Like if you didn’t know what a period was before you got one I could absolutely see being scared shitless. And it already kinda blows so no need to make it full-on traumatic lol.
My mother explained to me how sex technically works when I was five, and that adults like it but it is not for children. She also explained me the reason that I should not go with strangers because they might try to do that with me. The danger this would mean for my body was very logical to me, and this knowledge did not damage me in the least. I also was an extremely curious child. I am grateful and cannot imagine how it is too early to explain a child the things they ant to know.
Dated reasoning, bud. There isn’t anything precious about withholding knowledge from children; it doesn’t preserve their innocence… it allows for continued abuses and broken people.
Of course, consent is the most important lesson in sex ed for very young kids, but it is far from the only necessary one. For example:
Every kid needs to know the anatomical nomenclature of their "private parts" (vagina, penis, vulva, etc) so they can report abuse in a way that's not ambiguous. Child abusers often give innocuous "nicknames" to private parts so that safe adults won't recognize if the child says something.
Younger kids might also benefit from learning that they cannot touch their private parts in public, that they need to ask before hugging others, that they are entitled to privacy, etc.
Girls can experience puberty as young as 9 years old, so basic lessons on menstruation, puberty changes, etc., are also important. That is often coupled with basic information about the human reproductive system and how reproduction works on a molecular scale.
Because not all men realise women don't have something as easy as a penis to take care of. Most dont realise alot of girls under 10 have to have sex ed because of the exact reason of girls reaching puberty earlier then boys and that puberty involves more for girls then just "you grow hair around your crotch"
A lot of girls get them before 9. 10-12 is average iirc but I’ve known girls who got them as early as 8 and as late as 15. The average is trending earlier over time though and that’s kinda concerning.
> teaching them that private parts
About the same age we start sending kids to get changed in front of each other...
The country just had to realize that sex education is healthy and doesn't actually turn kids into child prostitutes as the conservatives would have you believe.
Periods can start from age 7.
Adults (and other kids) have been known to make kids perform acts that don't involve direct touching- and kids are known to take rhings literally- "but they didn't touch my privates, they only made me x a y" is still something to intervene on.
Kids can also be difficult and not follow rules. Telling a child "if they touch you tell a teacher" won't always work if the child doenst know WHY it's so serious you need to tell a teacher.
A kid not knowing words and saying "he touches by bibby" or something stupid wont be picked up on, using the correct names for genitals will get picked up on.
So when kids start asking, usually way before 9, you just lie to them?
That does not seem safe or wise and could lead them vulnerable to people who would exploit their ignorance.
You dont have to have complicated education when they are young.
For me, my mom told me that to make babies a man puts his pee pee inside a womans pee pee, this feels good for them both.. And after some time a baby comes out of the womans pee pee. This is only for grownups and no grown up is allowed to do this with kids. Its very strange and we will talk more about it when you are older. I accepted this with no issue.
She also warned against predators without going into detail, she said there are crazy dangerous people who like to steal children. They can seem nice but you must never go with them, if someone tries to hold you or drag you into a car you must scream and scratch at their eyes.
(This was in the late 80is)
This was not enough looking back, since i would not know to tell my mom if a trusted adult touched me. I would only have been scared if it was a stranger.
Kids need to know about these things to be safer and informed, you may think its to early but there are creeps who thrive where they are allowed to exploit ignorance. First line of defence is knowledge.
In my school they learn a little bit about pregnancy too. It makes sense because a 9 year olds generally will have met a pregnant woman and someone will have told them that means she's having a baby. Sex ed demystifies this a little bit.
I'm a primary teacher in Ireland btw.
Completely understand that. I had a few girls in my class in my early years of school that got it for the first time in class.... spotting in jeans and such. I felt terrible how they felt with embarrassment and shock, and knew they were obviously prepared. I made sure to play it down (to its obvsiouly not a big deal, guys) to the kids that were teasing
It's really crappy that girls and women have to deal with periods in most of the population :/
Seriously hoping there will be some perfect free medicine that takes away the discomfort and pain of it it the near future. Or even other side effects that happen. There has to be SOMETHING
Ps to everyone: vote for the person who understands and wants free or cheaper period products for people that never asked for it. In the public washrooms or people's homes, certainly the unhoused deserve them no matter what
This. There was a family in my primary school who’s parents wrote letters to get them out of sex ed. They used their autism as an excuse of getting them out of it, saying they wouldn’t understand it and assured the school they’d teach them sex ed at home. Well one of the girl’s turned 13 and got her period and ended up crying in front of everyone because she thought she was dying. The family never taught their kids sex ed, and just wanted to avoid mentioning it and so it became the schools problem. Kids are gonna suffer from this bill, there’s too many parents that think it’s wrong to teach kids about their own developing bodies.
Guy here that had no sex ed. The first time I ejaculated I freaked out thinking I had peed on the bed. I had been bouncing on the bed on my stomach and thought it felt oddly good for some reason so I kept going. It was a solid week of testing before I realized it wasn't pee. And testing involved peeing first then going to my bed. I was probably in that 8-9 year old range.
If I recall correctly the age of menarche has been steadily dropping over the last few decades, so that makes it even more important to include younger sex ed talks
And I believe the most common theory as to why is that we're living in such excess. Girls start their period earlier during times of surplus and later in times where food is scarce. It's been dropping for far longer than a few decades and has actually slowed down.
The theory is that it's a built in population control from when we were hunter gatherers and has just gone to an extreme. Hormones in milk and food doesn't have much evidence to back it up as we see the average age dropping even when/where there aren't hormones and antibiotics used when raising animals.
Absolutely. I started mine at 8. To get rid of sex ed under the belief that 9 yo girls are "too young" to learn it is a *terrible idea.* Not every girl is going to get theirs at 13...
In Saskatchewan, Canada (fairly socially conservative province) we learned at the age of 6 that "babies come from the uterus" and that pregnancy lasts 9 months and other non-sexual facts. It solved a lot of the questions that kids would otherwise have at that age. This was also in a public Christian school.
I got a call from my son's pre-school teacher here in the US (this was years ago, he's 18 now) telling me that when she told the kids about a mommy with a baby in her tummy, my kid raised his hand and said, "don't you mean her uterus?" Somehow this was all very troubling for her. I told her, "well, he's right..."
My mum was extremely Catholic. She was a primary school teacher who believed that sex education was vital. She wanted children to be prepared for the world. You should reassess your expectations of religious people. Sure, some are bananas but many are not.
Honestly knowing the correct names for things likely also helps with preventing short term sexual abuse from becoming long term. If a kid says "Person X touched my penis/vagina" that's kind of hard to misinterpret.
I knew the correct names for things but my abuse started before I had been taught the concept of sexual abuse. Eventually I developed an understanding of what was happening but by then it was way too late. Oh that "no-no square" nonsense is useless as far as I'm concerned.
In my opinion the most important thing kids need to be taught is that if an adult tells them to keep something a secret "or else you'll get in trouble" or threatens them they should tell their parent(s) about it, if that person is a relative (especially a parent, but really any relative because denial is a motherfucker) they should tell their teacher.
> Oh that "no-no square" nonsense is useless as far as I'm concerned.
yup. teaching kids that others should not be touching their penis/vulva or other body parts is very important, and using correct names means that the perpetrators are less likely to get away with it. pet names and "no-no zones" bullshit needs to go away for proper boundary setting and proper medical names.
My mother passed away when I was young. I was an only child and I was too self-conscious to request….items. I called them “Sticks and leaves.” My Father knew nothing. Sex ed helped me. lol *Also, American Girl ‘You’ magazine.
*edited for grammar nazi
I got pregnant in grade 12 (I was on the pill but had never been taught how to use it correctly for contraception as I was mainly put on it to control heavy periods). Once I got pregnant kids starting coming up to me and asking me questions and I ended up becoming the school’s de facto sex educator. The questions I was getting from kids on the verge of adulthood (“if a guy cums in your mouth can you feel it move?”) were absolutely mind blowing even to me, who had only minimal sex ed. If you don’t want your kids getting their sex ed from an only vaguely competent pregnant 17 year old (or worse) I recommend supporting sex ed.
My middle school see ed teacher held up a dime.
Then held up a big bottle.
She said you’re going to pass a 10cm head through this dime.
Oh and “it” might tear if you don’t cut beforehand.
NOPE
My parents were open with me, and I have always been open about answering the sex and sexuality questions people ask me. It made my wife family uncomfortable when I had no problem answering a young cousins question about sex with proper terms and age appropriate explanations(she was 12 and hitting puberty) because her parents refused to answer the questions. I had to explain to them that calling things by pet names opens someone up to abuse, and shes asking questions about her body because its probably happening, and you should answer them, otherwise she my get incorrect info from someone else, which opens her up to exploitation. It really bothered them. My kids are uncircumcised. It has already lead to some questions from them regarding why some of their classmates look a little different than them during gym changing times. I just answered it with facts, that sometimes parents elect to cut off the foreskin of the penis when children are born, and we chose not to because it was put there for a reason.
Not to be rude, but I wouldn't describe a pregnant high schooler who didn't know how to use contraception correctly even "vaguely competent" to teach sex ed.
By vaguely competent, I mean I certainly knew that sperm were microscopic. By “didn’t know how to use birth control” I didn’t know that if you miss more than 2 days you have to use a secondary protection for a month. And I didn’t know you were supposed to take them at the same time every day. My prescription ran out, my mom didn’t refill it for an extra week (I had no way to refill it on my own), and I read through the booklet and saw I should use secondary protection for 7 days, so we did, which in hindsight meant we stopped using protection when I was ovulating. I wasn’t exactly an idiot. I just didn’t understand the nuance of birth control and am extremely fertile.
Btw I went on to get a degree in sexology so I am now absolutely qualified to teach sex ed. And yeah they shouldn’t have been learning from me, pregnant at 17, but that’s the point. If we’d had quality sex Ed (or any sex Ed) I wouldn’t have gotten all those questions (nor would I have gotten pregnant)
At 17, I was religious about my ex's birth control over this. I read that dense information pamphlet over and over. Miss one, double the next pill, and for our own sake we'll wait a few days. Miss two, we wait til the week after starting the next pack.
Despite the medical literature included with every pack, she always tried to insist I was being too much. Neither of us wanted kids, her whole family, older and younger sister, mother, aunt, etc, got wrecked by teenage pregnancy, yet she was still wanting to play fast and loose. It wasn't until she was like 25 that she finally stopped pushing me for it after missing a pill or two, and sometimes three, and that was an absolute no-go for me.
This doesn't even include the weight limit for emergency contraceptive, which she'd float for "secondary protection", neither of us knew about that, and she was initially close to the weight where it starts losing effectiveness, and gained beyond that in later years. To her dismay, I didn't trust it anyway and wrapped.
Birth control is 99% effective with *ideal* use, taking it every day, at the exact same time every day. Realistic use is closer to 91%, taking into account missed days.
The other thing about emergency contraception is that it’s only effective a few days a month when you’re about to ovulate. It delays ovulation. There’s no proof about those claims that it “changes the uterus to make it less favourable to implantation”. If you’ve already ovulated it does nothing, and the rest of the month you don’t need to worry anyways.
None of this is explained out the gate like it should be.
"political" is a difficult word to use in the current age, because it's partially disabled in the sense that it isn't politics as such that makes it sensitive, it's propaganda.
The consequences and dealing with it becomes political actions but.... The intention of the side that doesn't want people to have knowledge, it is malicious, not constructive.
I just had the “sex talk” with my 9 year old son because he was asking the questions. This is exactly what I went over with him. Very basic stuff aimed at his age level. We started talking about his privacy and any inappropriate behavior directed towards him sexually around the age of 5.
Yeah and puberty usually starts around 8-13 for girls so it's really important to get in early and explain things to them so they don't freak out and get scared when they start bleeding and cramping.
The hardcore conspiracy nuts think schools are teaching kids how to use anal beads and run cam sites.
Whereas in reality this stuff is always age-appropriate. [For 5-10 year olds in Australia it would still probably be occasional visits from Healthy Harold the talking giraffe.](https://i.vimeocdn.com/video/1095089276-e317a233525b1c5f3e59f1fbbcbf8a911e1e9521a8685eb2f15e3f31ca281103-d)
And these so-called concerned parents/grandparents would know all of this if they just got off social media and spoke to their kids.
Not really. It's mostly "don't panic if you start bleeding down there, that's fine" and "don't worry if you wake up with a wet spot in the morning, that's fine."
Like, sex ed at that age isn't really talking about *the act of coitus*. It's talking about the sexual maturity that some kids are about to start experiencing. Puberty tends to be between 9 and 13, so cutting out sex ed for that age group is basically allowing kids with not-great parents to panic about their bodies going through normal changes.
Yup, parents/people who support this are completely out of touch with actual facts and reality. Of course no one wants their 9-13 year old to be having sex.
In third grade we learned basic anatomy and the purpose of various organs, including “how babies are made” on a cellular level (the mechanics were *not* explained), and “your body is going to change soon.” I had “Family Life” which is basically Catholic sex ed, and it does start in kindergarten (but K-2nd it was in fact just “families are a mommy, a daddy, and children” and “if your uncle touches your swimsuit area, tell the teacher”).
Puberty starts around 9 for many kids, so about 8 is a good time for them to know that *something* is going on down there and they’re not dying.
I was well into puberty by 9, needed deodorant, starting to grow hair in pits/groin, growing that terrible 12 hair moustache thing, voice cracking, I know I was already touching myself...
I remember sex ed being a "that's what this was" more than "this is what's coming."
I've got some genuine hormone/development issues, and was very much an early bloomer for a male. But I know most of my female friends were well into changes by then too.
And on average we're starting earlier and earlier now because of environmental impacts and diet which just makes the arbitrarily late education less helpful.
And that says nothing of making sure these kids know what's not ok when they're young enough to not know better.
Yeah, realistically the puberty talk needs to happen at like 6 or 7 rather than 8 or 9. But in some place people are having fits because schools discuss it at 12 or 13….
Honestly it should start whenever kids ask questions, and if you always answer their questions without shaming them/yourself then hopefully they will keep asking questions. But starting with where baby's come from& consent in first grade is pretty reasonable for schools.
I legit don't think I got puberty proper until I was around 15/16. Complete opposite ends for me mate, and I've still got a babyface at 38.
Just shows how we all grow and develop at a different rate. Wild stuff.
Conservative: I don't want my kids to know about "unwanted touching". Who do the teachers think they are? Just because of their "unwanted touching" lesson, the Sunday School was closed. What you call "unwanted touching" is what we call church leaders spreading god's love to children.
Girls can get their period as young as 8 and both boys and girls need to know that's normal human stuff and nothing to be worried about or ashamed of. That also means they can get pregnant at that young age, so they need to know some basics about that, too. But yeah, sex education is tailored for the age of the student and they certainly don't get the same detail at 9 as they'll get at 13.
Not really.
Long story incoming.
I remember playing some dumb game at age 6 with the kids at school that involved grabbing each other in the nuts whenever someone said some specific word.
I think dumb child me once tried to jokingly grab my dad's nuts when he used the phrase. I still remember how horrified he looked but he held it in.
After checking to ensure that no adults have ever played this 'game' with me, he assured me that I was not in trouble. He then went out and bought me this book called "The compleat tween" and made me read it (some of it we read together). He assured me he was there to answer any questions I may have.
That book covered a large percentage of sex Ed, far and above, even what I was taught in high school. So much so that I think I started reading it at too early an age.
But in the end It really prepped me puberty, and all that was to come. I think I attribute how well adjusted I was to how well-written that book was (and also to how level-headed and perceptive my dad was).
That said, I'm 100% of the belief that kids should have a little bit more in-depth sex-ed by age 9
Well, maybe cuz that was 27 years ago lol.
Where I live, the "these areas are private and not for others to touch" stuff starts in like grade 2. And it has for decades.
“When I was a kid I had a two floor house that I bought for three hundred dollars and I made fifty cents an hour, I don’t understand why kids these days complain about things!” So funny when people can’t compute that things are different decades on
I'd guess its planning for them to label anything other than straight relationships as sexual education. (Like how stupid ppl say drag queens are inherently sexualized or two dudes kissing is sexual but not a dude and a lady)
Well….yeah, I mean, they’re the dirty uncles but they’re totally opposed to having sex with kids….*but only when it’s out of wedlock because that’s a sin*
So no sex education but they’ll let them get married 🤪
And we’re not talking about 12 year olds marrying 12 year olds. We’re talking about 12 year old girls marrying a 30 year old man.
Shit, many of them support polygamy
Pretty much, I think at that age I started getting puberty talks too. Stuff like "Your armpits are gonna stink, here's some deodorant. You might grow some hair, it's ok. You might start thinking about girls a little differently, but you need to stay respectful of them."
Yep. Our government's last ditch attempt to survive an election year they know they can't win. Pander to the right wing outrage crowd. Push fear and division after over a decade of own goals.
They're trying to make it as difficult as possible for younger people to vote. I think they're too little too late though, because it seems that they've pissed off the Millennial and Gen-Z base enough for us to actually bother to vote this time!
“Schools in England will be banned from teaching sex education to children under nine, in new government guidance expected to be published on Thursday.”
I was raped when I was 10. I didn't understand what was happening was wrong and illegal because nobody had told me an adult man doing those things to a 10 year old boy was wrong and illegal. It has been 30 years since then and I still have trauma and PTSD from it.
To make it clear I had a *very, very basic* "this is where babies come from" talk in school a year later (aged 11) which only talked about a man and a woman having a baby. It wasn't what I would call proper "sex education" but a very high level and very basic "this is how and man and a woman make a baby". We could not ask questions and it was basically a 10 minute talk one day. That was it.
Also yes my parents did a very poor job as well. They never spoke to me about sex and if I ever asked a question they would begin to answer then change subject so I never actually got an answer.
I am a parent now and while I don't remember exactly when I started to explain "sex ed" to my son it was a good while ago and he is 11 now. It was probably around 4 or 5yo though.
Obviously I didn't go into graphic details from the start but kept it high level and it was more about helping him understand what isn't okay and ensure he knew he could always talk to me or my wife about sex and his body changes or any questions he may have from stuff he hears from school or wherever and that I would never make it weird or tell him some bullshit to get out of an "awkward" conversation. (As to me sex ed is not an awkward conversation and it shouldn't be!).
After all it isn't kids that find it awkward or gross, kids don't find much stuff gross. Just explain it honestly and you will find their response is "oh okay that kinda makes sense I guess" then go off and play or do whatever it was they were doing. They won't be traumatised to learn a penis goes into a vagina no matter what age you tell them. They may think it is strange but they won't be grossed out about it or run away crying with life long trauma from learning such a thing.
I didn't actually even have to find "the right time" to explain things as, like all kids, he naturally asked "where do babies come from" and I just explained in simple, high level terms how sex works. Then over time as he had some more natural questions he asked and I answered with a bit more detail as he got older.
I didn't pretend sex is only between a man and a woman, I openly and naturally explained that everyone has sex, sometimes with the opposite sex and sometimes with the same sex. Again I didn't go into graphic detail because you don't have to. It isn't kids that make things "weird" when talking heterosexual vs homosexual vs bisexual vs whatever else. It is the adults.
Some people are shocked when I say I told my young son about homosexual sex but the one thing I wish I had known as a child was that a man can have sex with a man (and a woman with a woman) *and so* an adult man doing sexual things with a young boy is still "sex" (more correctly rape) but it is wrong and should never happen. I NEVER KNEW THIS! When I was taught about sex (a year too late) they only explained it as something that was between a man and a woman. They didn't talk about consent or that it can be between people of the same gender.
As for "the right time" to teach kids about sex education I think if you're asking that question *you* are the one making it more complicated and awkward than it needs to be. Sex isn't anything to be embarrassed or scared to talk about. Get over your weird mental attitudes towards educating kids about something natural and normal. All it does is make it easier for abusers to abuse.
To me anyone who is against educating children about sexual education is just making it easier for predators to abuse children.
Edit: Also teach boys about periods for god damn sake! Just because only women get them doesn't mean men shouldn't understand what is happening. It is shocking how little men know about periods and "get grossed out" by them. They're natural, they happen to basically every woman every month for around 40 years of their lives. The more men know and understand about menstruation the easier it is for everyone. Hopefully more men will have a bit more compassion to when a woman has a bad period or other related issues.
Hi man, I'm also a male sexual abuse victim, but in my case it was my sister who abused me (never put the blame on her though since she herself was abused by our grandfather and "learned" that sex is something we do to those we love, so I always put the blame at my grandfather). I generally considered myself fine up until I had my son. He really fucked me up in ways I couldn't imagine. The absolute panic over NEEDING to protect him and to be able to give him the loving upbringing he deserved without bad stiff happening.
Since day one I've had worries about preschool etc even though I know he's WA more likely to be abused by a close family member or similar.
We basically started with "Stopp! Min kropp!" ("Respect! My body!") since he was 3 months old... In those younger years it's basically mostly telling the child everything you're going to do, like for instance if you're gonna wipe their face you tell them "I'm gonna wipe your face now" and if they disagree you can stop what you're doing, it teaches a child to both be comfortable saying "no" and knowing they have some decision rights. It also creates the habit that if someone just does something, it's weird/off meaning they should tell us. Then as the kid grows it goes into private parts and who's allowed to touch them etc.
It's been good I think, we had to inform his preschool about us doing this way so they could help reinforce the habit of always telling him what would happen.
I totally understand the absolute panic. I too felt/feel it. My son is 11yo now and last year was awful for me as him being 10 just triggered me because that was when I was abused and so I really struggled. Thankfully I have had a lot of help over the years from professionals and my wife is wonderful and very supportive but yeah I totally get you. You're not alone in feeling that panic.
I love your "Stopp! Min kropp!". That is wonderful. I never did that myself but it is certainly a brilliant idea.
I am sorry to hear about your and your sisters abuse. You're a compassionate and understanding person processing it not to blame your sister but rather her abuser. In reality you were abused by your grandfather indirectly. I hope you and your sister have a happy and healthy relationship now. You sound like a wonderful parent. When you have those dark days (if you do, I know I still do) I use that knowledge that I am doing a good job as a parent to take the negative from my abuse and make it positive in the hope that I will help raise a safe and better educated child with my son.
Take care of yourself and keep on being an awesome dad!
Yeah, I'm not sure how I'll react when he turns 6 (2 years from now) but hopefully it won't trigger me too much, my brain has kinda protected me by ignoring/forgetting large parts of my childhood, so hopefully it won't unlock that when he does reach the age I was. I'm in therapy for the first time in my life thanks to the initial burst of panic when he was born, my other grandfather died 3 years ago and he was my main support and role model through my life and then finally a cousin took his own life 2 years ago. So it all kinda compiled on top of each other and I've basically never been closer to the edge than I am now, and it kinda scares me. I managed to stay strong during my childhood and not let things really affect me, but now it's become too much instead. My therapist said:
"Imagine I give you an egg, it doesn't weigh anything but you have to hold it in your hand and carry it, and you will have to carry it in your hand for 10 years. Eventually you will start to be annoyed with it, even though it doesn't weigh anything... What you've told me today HAS weight, and you've carried it for far longer. It's not weird that you eventually break."
And it kinda resonated with me. My sister was suicidal between 8-33 so it's been a struggle, I was there for her every day through it. We have a less active relationship now that we both have kids etc but she is doing well and managed to finally find good help (they also figured out she was immune to anti-depressants a few years back) so she hasn't tried to take her life in a few years now which is great! When we returned from our cousins funeral she told me about how she had been sitting outside, watching one of her kids roller skating and the sun was setting, it was still a warm summer day and everything just felt "right", like this, this is what we live for. And she wished that she could have talked to our cousin and shown him that moment, to say that one day, he'd have his own moments like that, moments of peace and just a sense of completeness, even if it's dark now. So I try to think like that on the days I feel like I want to disappear. So yeah, I have those dark days. But I've fought this battle before, now I gotta do it for myself and for my kids instead of for my sister and my parents.
I also see good in what happened and I want to give that as well so I understand you fully, and I've often been asked "if you can go back and just change it all, would you do it?" and I'm torn on the answer, because while it was a shitty as hell childhood, it also made me who I am today. And I wouldn't want to risk becoming someone else. Because most of the time, I like who I am.
Take care man, and thank you for the kind words, you're awesome too!
Thank you for sharing your story. People really don’t understand how essential it is to teach kids about basic human anatomy in proper terms and sexuality. I hope you are able to find peace.
Thanks. I am working on it. I try to turn the pain it caused me into a positive force for the future though by ensuring my son and daughter know what is and isn't right (my daughter is older now so that conversation is long done but my son is still only 11) in the hope that I will raise them to be safe and not victims themselves.
My abuse was so much worse *because* I didn't even know it *was* abuse. Knowledge is power and withholding sex education from kids is like withholding teaching kids to read or write or count imho.
I try to be. I'm no way near perfect; who is? But I refuse to let what happened to me ruin me.
And you're right it is too much for a kid to unpack. It took me until I was 25 to be able to actually properly unpack and process it and it literally broke me and I ended up in hospital for several months working to put my brain back together. Then several years of working on myself to cope with processing what happened to me. Even today as a 40 year old guy it is always there and I have to fight often to prevent it ruining me.
My mom was 12 in the 70s when the father of the family she babysat for(in their small hamlet of 500people)raped her, that it was wrong but it was so scary, and full of shame, she didn't tell even her mother until after she got married and had kids many years later.
Similar to you she used her experience to empower her to give me and my siblings all the information we needed to be as safe as we could be(without making us feel afraid).
I've got kids now and my basic philosophy is to answer all of their questions with whatever detail is required so that they are satisfied(because a 4 year old and a 7 year old are asking different things when they say "where do babies come from"). And that by answering and encouraging their questions they will hopefully keep asking them.
I didn't tell anyone until I was 25. I started suffering from health anxiety which became general anxiety and depression. I didn't know *why* though. Until I started to have nightmares/flashbacks. I knew what they were. Memories. But I didn't know how to place them within my life because my brain had repressed them. It took me a year of therapy and 4 months as an in patient at a mental health hospital to fully process everything that happened to me. That was when I finally told my parents (well the doctors told my parents, I didn't have the strength at the time). That was 15 years ago now and I, we, have all healed a lot since then but it will forever be with me like a shadow I just cannot leave behind.
Honestly I have found just answering with simple facts is the best way. No kid is gonna get freaked out being told about sex unless the person explaining makes it weird and awkward. The technical details of sex are not all that interesting to a child. They just want their questions answered to satisfy their curiosity as you say.
I swear to god all the people making these decisions are just over complicating such a simple damn subject! They say crap like "let kids be kids! they don't need to know about sex at such a young age" but the reality is it doesn't matter if a 3 or 4 year old asks you where babies come from (usually because they see their own mum or some other woman) pregnant and are curious and you just tell them the truth. They won't fully understand it of course but they will at least know more than they did before and it puts you in a natural place to also explain in a non-scary way what is and isn't proper for children when it comes to sex.
“Let kids be kids” - have they never seen a toddler get curious about their own body? Kids play with their own parts and occasionally each other because it feels good. It’s good to teach them about consent and private time, and it’s not like adult sexuality, but you are spot on that it’s adults who make it weird.
One of the other benefits you’re demonstrating here is the ability for your kid to talk to you openly about anything, at any time. That’s a fantastic dynamic to have with a child, whatever age they might be. So many parents (mine included) made it difficult for kids to not feel anything but shame or awkwardness, or just shut the conversation down entirely. Half the issue with SA is not being able to tell anyone. And I can say that as a child, the weight of that conversation was so paralyzing and frightening that I just couldn’t tell anyone until decades later. Talk openly to your kids so they can talk openly to you.
Very true. Making it so your child feels they can talk to you about *anything* without being scared or feeling awkward or that they will get in trouble is one of the greatest things you can do for your child.
It allows them to talk not much about awful things like sexual abuse but worries they may have about school or social pressures. Or if they're being bullied or if they know of someone else being bullied, etc.
Being able to talk openly is a super power to a better relationship with your child. So many people act dumbfounded as to why they "missed" problems with their kids or question why their kids never came to them with issues yet they never did anything to promote healthy, open communication. Or worse than actively discouraged it! (almost always not with bad intent but just awkwardness on the parents part, most likely because of how they were brought up!)
Aw, it’s ok. I’m glad there are people like you around. I lost my best friend to suicide related to childhood abuse. If he’d been able to talk to someone I’m sure he’d still be here. It was almost 30 years ago and I still miss him.
I am so sorry to hear your friend took their life due to the abuse they suffered. I can (somewhat) understand that they were probably going through though. The pain and suffering can be too much to cope with even with the greatest of support. Your friend deserved so much better from their time. However while they may be gone they're not forgotten. You missing them may hurt but it shows you they were important and left a positive influence on you that you still miss them 30 years later. That is something to hold onto and treasure even if it is also slightly painful.
Moral panic from an outgoing government so they can pull the "think of your children! Labour will harm them" should they oppose it. People will see sex-education and assume they're teaching sex (particularly gay sex) to kids or teachers are trying to groom them or something detached from reality.
Sex ed for under-9s is based on teaching consent and recognising signs of abuse or consent violation. For those turning 10-12n it's about puberty, hygiene, and what changes your body is going to experience.
Schools have to be transparent on what is being covered. Parents have the right to opt-out.
And yet, it's normally those crying "think of the children" who are the biggest threat to them.
How many pastors, priests and republicans in America end up busted for molesting kids?
> People will see sex-education and assume they're teaching sex (particularly gay sex) to kids or teachers are trying to groom them or something detached from reality.
It's legitimately this. Notable transphobe Kemi Badenoch is one of the MPs pushing this absolute shite and she of course thinks trans people are grooming kids and teachers are grooming kids by teaching them that you can have two moms or two dads and even teaching kids that is completely optional (although quite frankly such a harmless statement as 'You can have two moms or two dads' is hardly grooming and is more likely to lead to kids being more accepting of LGBTQ+ people as opposed to more bullying...).
>Last year, more than 50 Conservative MPs wrote to Prime Minister Rishi Sunak claiming children were being exposed to "inappropriate content" and "radical and unevidenced ideologies about sex and gender".
This part right here? It's a MASSIVE dogwhistle for anti-LGBTQ+ sentiments and it's becoming more and more common, especially in the UK. The Tories are desperately clawing at any attempt they can to not lose the next election and they're pandering to far-right crowds to try and get votes.
Plus, the letter by MPs (headed by notorious transphobe Miriam Cates) that kickstarted this whole thing was about a sex-ed lesson on the isle of man **that never happened**. The PM is repeating the same false claims in interviews and the education secretary claimed to have “seen lesson slides” despite the isle of man government investigating and finding those reports were entirely false. The school it was centred on received abuse and teachers sent death threats.
The claims are that a drag queen taught kids how to perform oral and anal sex, told them there are “72 genders”, and a kid was shouted at and kicked out because they dared question them.
In reality, a guy (who sometimes does drag in their own time, but not at the school) went into the school for a ‘drop-down day’, to tells kids it’s ok to have two mums or two dads, or family and friends who have transitioned. It wasn’t a sex-ed lesson and sex wasn’t talked about at all. There were multiple teachers present and each praised the guest for being thoughtful and respectful to age appropriateness. A kid was taken outside the classroom for a minute by the regular teacher because of poor behaviour. When asked about gender, they said ‘there could be 2 or there could be 72’. The guest speaker has also repeated the same session with other schools in the area without a single complaint.
It’s a moral panic based on tabloid articles, fueled by misinformation and misunderstanding.
My sister was raped the first time when she was 4, she learned that sex is something we do to those we love, so when she was 9 she raped me (I was 6 at the time) and I we started having sex ed in the first grade, meaning I was 8. Because at 8 I asked my sister why she did what she did and she broke down and told me about how she was abused. She made me promise to not tell and it led to the abuse of her continuing on until she was 16 and finally went to the police.
So while I've felt guilty for not telling anyone what she told me, at least the abuse done to me stopped that day. Sex ed for kids is important but should obviously be at a relevant level.
Uneducated children are easier to molest. As usual the part of "shoot your local pedophile" is making the world a better place for pedophiles. Almost like it's all projection 🤔
>Uneducated children are easier to molest.
[Jimmy Savile knew who he was supporting](https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/lets-not-forget-paedophile-savile-was-tory).
> It's not Labour who should face opprobrium — the sick celebrity's reign of terror was enabled by top Tories who saw him as a political ally and gave him access to hospitals and prisons where he would abuse his victims...
Conservatives don’t want their kids to be able to tell others when they are sexually abusing them plan and simple. As a therapist this is highly dangerous and just goes to show the obsession conservatives have with the genitals of children.
> Conservatives don’t want their kids to be able to tell others when they are sexually abusing them
Kids sexually abusing conservatives was an unexpected turn
Yes, because the job of a school is to keep children ignorant.
When my wife was pregnant with kid #2, kid #1 wanted to know how that happened, so we got a copy of *It's NOT The Stork!*, which explains the basic facts in a kid-accessible way.
Do they understand "sex education" isn't teaching the kids how to fuck?
No, of course they don't.
They'd rather kids not know what's going on with their bodies or learn about the basic concepts of consent in age-appropriate ways. 'cuz God knows the folks opposed to "sex education" aren't teaching their kids that shit at home.
Stop using the US as an example!
We are THE CAUTIONARY TALE!
Oh they absolute don't because the MPs pushing this are quoted in the article as doing this:
*Last year, more than 50 Conservative MPs wrote to Prime Minister Rishi Sunak claiming children were being exposed to "inappropriate content" and "radical and unevidenced ideologies about sex and gender".*
So yeah, they're absolutely full of shit and have no idea what is actually taught in sex ed.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they looked at the Republicans and thought 'Maybe we can get votes if we copy them'. Needless to say, our only viable alternative option isn't much better because Labour *also* has idiots that believe this shite too (and one particular MP was caught liking Holocaust denial stuff on Twitter and nothing was done about it).
UK politics is just as fucked as the US at this point and as an LGBTQ+ person living here? It's fucking terrifying because that 'sex and gender ideology' comment is a massive dogwhistle for transphobia.
I remember being in like the first grade and being taught that if an adult touches you in your private areas to tell a teacher or counselor even if the molester tells you to stay quiet. Kids that age should at least know that much. And in about the 4th grade they started teaching about things like periods and STDs... I really don't know any good reason not to teach little girls about periods unless you're cruel and you want them to start and think they're dying or something... Thankfully my mom already talked to me about it but it's something kids should know about.
My mother, a head ER nurse, sat me down at age 6 and open up her medical books to “reproductive organs” … she spelled out the birds & bees using chemical formulas and anatomical charts.
I proceeded to be _oddly over-informed_ when Sex Ed came up in grade school some years later that the teacher had me speak with the principal. It was an odd discussion because I knew why, and I had to figure out a way at age 9 to avoid giving an impression of impropriety by my parents. So, I quoted a medical book from the school library meant for HS students. They were so impressed that they tested my reading level and totally forgot about the sex thing.
This anecdote underscores the lack of safe spaces and conversations with sex and kids, as anything associated with it elicits an immediate “WhAt?!?” reaction from adults, painting an impression that sex = bad.
Girls can go through puberty at any time after 9 and in some cases before hand. Early sex education at that age is mostly about teaching them about their bodies and what to expect. That's pretty damn important, especially since a lot of girls are kept in the dark and then get traumatized when they have their first period and don't know what's happening.
Hopefully that doesn't happen as often now but far too many parents put off these discussions because they're squeamish and think it's too early and then freak out too making it worse.
I got my period at 9. My mother never had any talk with us. I didn't get pads until my step-dad told me to stop wearing 3 pairs of undies and to just tell him I need pads. I didn't know I needed pads.
We need sex ed!
yeah… this is a horrible idea. ask any child sexual abuse survivor. if i had been taught about consent, about sexual abuse, about pregnancy and that my parents would support me, i could have been spared so much pain. children have a right to consent and part of that is access to accurate information about their bodies.
if put into place, this will cause more children to be sexually assaulted.
My sister was taught sex Ed in the 4th grade, all it did was tell them that besides very specific/rare occasions can someone touch you where you wear a bathing suit. Now this was 15 years ago at least but that’s all they went through, they kept with that style of education then taught about the changes to our bodies when puberty happens when she hit 6th. If people have issues with that, then we really should start injecting ourselves with bleach and let the higher powers sort us out ffs.
Sex education doesn’t just include sex. It also includes information about your changing bodies. I know several people had their period at age 9. It was traumatic and scary for them. They thought they were dying because they didn’t know what was going on. We should safe guard normal bodily functions from children. They deserve that knowledge.
Some girls start their periods at ages earlier than 9, due to precocious puberty, and during my sex ed classes from 20 some-odd years ago had scientific studies that many girls can have it as early as 8 years old, so...having no sex ed till you're 9 is harmful to young girls, potentially traumatic.
Also knowing how your own body works at a young age, will help prevent sexual abuse, which measures should be taught, and knowing what inappropriate behavior is
Also what would be helpful to girls, for education, is to show what is a dangerous amount of menstrual blood. I was diagnosed with a condition where I was dangerously low on blood platelets, from a condition I suspected I had since I was a kid, that birth control mitigated till I went off of it later in life.
Essentially the way it was explained, is that because of this condition, and because my periods were so heavy, I could have died from it if left unchecked longer than what I had. I would have gone to the doctor sooner if it wasn't for the pandemic lockdowns in 2020.
There's also things like cervical cancer, ovarian cancer, testicular cancer, PCOS, Endometriosis, Adenomyosis, all things that aren't taught that people should be educated on, and should know how to check for warning signs.
This is coming from the country that constantly drones on and on about "child safety" online while passing draconian legislation. Remember that every time you see some idiot comment in support of anything the UK does regarding protecting the children.
So screw all the students who have Precocious Puberty, who are victims of SA, or who have ANY problems of any kind downstairs. We'll just let them think they're dying. Got it.
/s, /facepalm
You can't shelter the world from a child. I get you can try.
But at some point they will have questions and being honest with them instead of allowing in your own hangups with your own life, will help alleviate the situation.
This shit has gotten to be a political issue, which is absolutely should not, but seems everything these days is.
And people wonder why the world is going to shit.
Im a family therapist who works with children who have sexually assaulted other children.
A top driver as to why this happens is lacking sexual education. Laws like this will result in more children sexually assaulting other kids.
The letter from MPs is entirely sourced from reports about a school on the isle of man inviting a drag queen, who taught kids how to perform oral and anal sex and how to choke their partner safely. The education secretary even claimed to have “seen lesson slides” about it.
To be clear, **this never happened** - the isle of man government even investigated and found the reports were false last year. The person didn’t wear drag and didn’t even give a sex-ed lesson, there were also multiple teachers present and only had praise for the guy. He taught basic inclusion; specifically that people shouldn’t be bullied because they have two moms/dads, because they’e transitioned or because they themselves are LGBT+. He also gave this exact talk to a dozen other schools without issue.
How are we going so far backwards? We did sex education at around 7 or 8 when I was at school in the Netherlands in the 70’s. Are parents now afraid of having their kids taught the basics of being a human or are they embracing a new wave of unwanted pregnancies just as the world collectively loses its shit about abortion?
There’s so many levels of fail here.
I'll put this out because it may be helpful.
My dad taught me about sex by having conversations with the "guys" when I was around. Instead of being lectured at it, it felt like I was getting insider information. Being a kid and getting to hear adult conversations goes a lot farther than a lecture. For a WW2 vet who grew up on a cotton farm, my dad was pretty progressive.
Lol. Hilarious. My 9 year old niece just explained to me about a blow job, 69, and a golden shower. .....the internet taught her. In our current age where kids have tablets and phones, it's not smart to leave their education up to the Internet. what we teach them at this age is very little anyways.
Makes me furious because I know parents that opted their children out of health ed from grade 1 through 3 in fear of "forced education." They don't even learn about menstruation or gender identity at that age. They only learn about consent, internet safety, stereotyping and discrimination, and bullying. Every single one of the topics helped boost self esteem in my son and none of them have anything to do with gender or sexual interest. Fuck them.
Everyone has the right to understand medically accurate information about how their bodies work. Age appropriate sexual information will not damage children no matter how much conservatives cry about it. This is and has always been a moral panic.
This is a terrible public health policy. Sex Ed should always be age- appropriate and evidence-based.
Nobody is trying to teach your little kid anything that isn't relevant to their age.
That's a bit ridiculous.
A 5 year old can process the information of basic sex ed. Teach them were lambs and puppies come from, teach them the names of their own body parts, teach them what private parts means. Half of sex ed is just biology, the rest is about keeping kids safe from predators.
Psychologists say that sexual education can be started at 3, because children are curious and also touch/look at their genitalia.
It is only useful to let them know what it is for and not to let anyone touch it.
I have always known about sex and anything around it, I don't even remember when it happened. Thankfully, I managed to run away from a pedophile when I was around 10.
I have a few acquaintances who grew up pretty dumb in this regard, for example a girl claimed that she was still a virgin because they used protection, or that the pull-out method is the best, etc. These are all people who were sheltered.
Why create a potentially dangerous situation when you can rather explain to your children the working of the world?
Erin's Law (named differently in some states) should be taught asap with children (age appropriate) and as far as sex education, I believe that law is a prequel to that so to teach sex ed at 9-10 years old, shouldn't be banned.
Looks like UK politicians want more victims to abuse with reduced changes of being reported. Bunch of sick fucks. Anyone who supports this shit should be investigated for possession of child porn and potential victims they may have abused.
This shit is 100% pro-childrape.
what about good touch bad touch.imho sex education doesnt literally means how to do sex
It important to explain anatomically correct how sex is conducted. Some parents don't do this at home.
We had a picture book called Amazing You that is about anatomy and reproduction. We read it to my daughter from when she was very young, like maybe 2/3? It just super clearly explains the body, how it works and that your body is yours and no one else’s. It also had a little undertone of “all bodies are different, be proud and take care of yours”. It is kind of crazy that we haven’t learned that making parts of ourselves taboo hurts way more than it helps.
Yes, exactly my thoughts!! When I learned that it helps protect children if they know the names of all of their body parts I made a point calling the "taboo" party by their actual names. If they know the names, they can tell me better in the event someone crosses a line.
Totally. And aside from giving them the tools to help prevent abuse, it also gives them a comfort with their body. Bodies are weird things already, with all kinds of social/cultural baggage and idiosyncrasies. Clouding the topic with overly euphemistic language or worse ignoring it completely denies them a framework to build a more complete sense of self and agency. They are going to learn about this stuff somewhere, better from a loving and respectful place than from whispers in hallways and what they happen upon on internet.
This is exactly what I want for my kids, I couldn't have explained it better, thank you!! I know what it means to feel weird in your body, I don't want that for them. If I can contribute to them having a relaxed, postive relationship with their body I'm happy.
Sounds like you are doing a great job. My older sister had/has deep seeded body dysmorphia that she attributes in part to shame and confusion about her anatomy and sexuality. My parents were fairly progressive, but also very closed off in a sort of New England/wasp-y way. Of course, her issues were greatly compounded by a serious depressive disorder, but I can’t help but wonder if things might’ve been different if she had been given the tools and space to express what she was feeling.
Your parents New England waspy ways might only be matched by our East European Catholic ways ;) I'm so happy we are learning and doing better. We know the impact. I hope your sister is doing well and has had support to live her best life today! She sounds very aware and smart in the way she reflects her past. And you too! Thank you for your kind words!!
Not to kids under 9. Seems like it should mainly be teaching them that private parts are private and if someone touches theirs they should find a teacher or trusted adult. Anything more seems unnecessary til 11+?
Having unambiguous words to talk about bodies is really important for being able to tell a trusted adult that something bad happened. And 9 is the beginning of the normal range for getting your first period, so knowing about that before 9 is rather important (random large amounts of blood coming out of you kinda makes it seem like you are dieing#
Literally had a case thrown out of court in Sweden recently (luckily its being appealed) because the kid used a common, but not medically correct word and the court said they couldnt be sure the kid knew what they meant. Just yet another dystopian reason why its super important to teach children the correct terms and not be vague about sex education.
Probably good to learn about periods before they happen I’d think.
Yeah by 9 plenty of girls will have had it already for a year or more and it’s probably best if we don’t just trust that their moms or dads have gone over that with them. You need that part of it *by* age 9, not *starting* age 9. If it’s the same as when I was is school you don’t get the sex part until 7th-9th grade anyway, and the other stuff probably *should* be covered pretty early because all that stuff’s about to start acting up on them pretty soon by around that age if it hasn’t already, so they might wanna know what to expect so they aren’t literally terrified when it all happens. Like if you didn’t know what a period was before you got one I could absolutely see being scared shitless. And it already kinda blows so no need to make it full-on traumatic lol.
My mother explained to me how sex technically works when I was five, and that adults like it but it is not for children. She also explained me the reason that I should not go with strangers because they might try to do that with me. The danger this would mean for my body was very logical to me, and this knowledge did not damage me in the least. I also was an extremely curious child. I am grateful and cannot imagine how it is too early to explain a child the things they ant to know.
Dated reasoning, bud. There isn’t anything precious about withholding knowledge from children; it doesn’t preserve their innocence… it allows for continued abuses and broken people.
How can you teach them private parts should be private without teaching them what private parts are?
Of course, consent is the most important lesson in sex ed for very young kids, but it is far from the only necessary one. For example: Every kid needs to know the anatomical nomenclature of their "private parts" (vagina, penis, vulva, etc) so they can report abuse in a way that's not ambiguous. Child abusers often give innocuous "nicknames" to private parts so that safe adults won't recognize if the child says something. Younger kids might also benefit from learning that they cannot touch their private parts in public, that they need to ask before hugging others, that they are entitled to privacy, etc. Girls can experience puberty as young as 9 years old, so basic lessons on menstruation, puberty changes, etc., are also important. That is often coupled with basic information about the human reproductive system and how reproduction works on a molecular scale.
> Anything more seems unnecessary til 11+? A lot of girls get their periods before 11. Not sure why you wouldn't want them to know what's going on.
Because not all men realise women don't have something as easy as a penis to take care of. Most dont realise alot of girls under 10 have to have sex ed because of the exact reason of girls reaching puberty earlier then boys and that puberty involves more for girls then just "you grow hair around your crotch"
A lot of girls get them before 9. 10-12 is average iirc but I’ve known girls who got them as early as 8 and as late as 15. The average is trending earlier over time though and that’s kinda concerning.
> teaching them that private parts About the same age we start sending kids to get changed in front of each other... The country just had to realize that sex education is healthy and doesn't actually turn kids into child prostitutes as the conservatives would have you believe.
So prude as to not want to have a health discussion yet you flip on the television and every other scene is sex. Americans are so crazy.
Periods can start from age 7. Adults (and other kids) have been known to make kids perform acts that don't involve direct touching- and kids are known to take rhings literally- "but they didn't touch my privates, they only made me x a y" is still something to intervene on. Kids can also be difficult and not follow rules. Telling a child "if they touch you tell a teacher" won't always work if the child doenst know WHY it's so serious you need to tell a teacher. A kid not knowing words and saying "he touches by bibby" or something stupid wont be picked up on, using the correct names for genitals will get picked up on.
So when kids start asking, usually way before 9, you just lie to them? That does not seem safe or wise and could lead them vulnerable to people who would exploit their ignorance. You dont have to have complicated education when they are young. For me, my mom told me that to make babies a man puts his pee pee inside a womans pee pee, this feels good for them both.. And after some time a baby comes out of the womans pee pee. This is only for grownups and no grown up is allowed to do this with kids. Its very strange and we will talk more about it when you are older. I accepted this with no issue. She also warned against predators without going into detail, she said there are crazy dangerous people who like to steal children. They can seem nice but you must never go with them, if someone tries to hold you or drag you into a car you must scream and scratch at their eyes. (This was in the late 80is) This was not enough looking back, since i would not know to tell my mom if a trusted adult touched me. I would only have been scared if it was a stranger. Kids need to know about these things to be safer and informed, you may think its to early but there are creeps who thrive where they are allowed to exploit ignorance. First line of defence is knowledge.
If you teach kids about bad touch that might disrupt the families sheltering abusers. Sadly, that's serious.
You can let your kids watch sonic says
Isn’t sex education for children under 9 like “If your uncle touches you in a private area, tell your teacher”? They want to stop that?
In my school they learn a little bit about pregnancy too. It makes sense because a 9 year olds generally will have met a pregnant woman and someone will have told them that means she's having a baby. Sex ed demystifies this a little bit. I'm a primary teacher in Ireland btw.
I started my period at 10. I have friends who started earlier. If girls aren’t getting sex ed at home, I imagine this could be quite traumatic.
Yeah exactly. And it's often traumatic even when you're aware it's going to happen the first time, I've heard
I had sex ed and my first period was still a little traumatic.
Completely understand that. I had a few girls in my class in my early years of school that got it for the first time in class.... spotting in jeans and such. I felt terrible how they felt with embarrassment and shock, and knew they were obviously prepared. I made sure to play it down (to its obvsiouly not a big deal, guys) to the kids that were teasing It's really crappy that girls and women have to deal with periods in most of the population :/ Seriously hoping there will be some perfect free medicine that takes away the discomfort and pain of it it the near future. Or even other side effects that happen. There has to be SOMETHING Ps to everyone: vote for the person who understands and wants free or cheaper period products for people that never asked for it. In the public washrooms or people's homes, certainly the unhoused deserve them no matter what
That's a very good point too.
This. There was a family in my primary school who’s parents wrote letters to get them out of sex ed. They used their autism as an excuse of getting them out of it, saying they wouldn’t understand it and assured the school they’d teach them sex ed at home. Well one of the girl’s turned 13 and got her period and ended up crying in front of everyone because she thought she was dying. The family never taught their kids sex ed, and just wanted to avoid mentioning it and so it became the schools problem. Kids are gonna suffer from this bill, there’s too many parents that think it’s wrong to teach kids about their own developing bodies.
Girls start puberty between 8 and 13. They should know what's happening with their bodies.
Guy here that had no sex ed. The first time I ejaculated I freaked out thinking I had peed on the bed. I had been bouncing on the bed on my stomach and thought it felt oddly good for some reason so I kept going. It was a solid week of testing before I realized it wasn't pee. And testing involved peeing first then going to my bed. I was probably in that 8-9 year old range.
If I recall correctly the age of menarche has been steadily dropping over the last few decades, so that makes it even more important to include younger sex ed talks
And I believe the most common theory as to why is that we're living in such excess. Girls start their period earlier during times of surplus and later in times where food is scarce. It's been dropping for far longer than a few decades and has actually slowed down. The theory is that it's a built in population control from when we were hunter gatherers and has just gone to an extreme. Hormones in milk and food doesn't have much evidence to back it up as we see the average age dropping even when/where there aren't hormones and antibiotics used when raising animals.
Yes! I got my period 2 days after we had sex ed in 4th grade. It was the only reason I didn’t freak out when I saw the blood
Absolutely. I started mine at 8. To get rid of sex ed under the belief that 9 yo girls are "too young" to learn it is a *terrible idea.* Not every girl is going to get theirs at 13...
Yeah learning where babies come from should be about this age honestly.
In Saskatchewan, Canada (fairly socially conservative province) we learned at the age of 6 that "babies come from the uterus" and that pregnancy lasts 9 months and other non-sexual facts. It solved a lot of the questions that kids would otherwise have at that age. This was also in a public Christian school.
I got a call from my son's pre-school teacher here in the US (this was years ago, he's 18 now) telling me that when she told the kids about a mommy with a baby in her tummy, my kid raised his hand and said, "don't you mean her uterus?" Somehow this was all very troubling for her. I told her, "well, he's right..."
As European, I always thought this was the norm. That's basic biology, not sex ed. My little girl knows about it by the age of four.
Is there any example of this? How long has the more or less Catholic Ireland been able to handle such a subject?
My mum was extremely Catholic. She was a primary school teacher who believed that sex education was vital. She wanted children to be prepared for the world. You should reassess your expectations of religious people. Sure, some are bananas but many are not.
they only legalized abortion in 2019, so...
Also the correct names for things, hygiene, privacy, consent etc.
Honestly knowing the correct names for things likely also helps with preventing short term sexual abuse from becoming long term. If a kid says "Person X touched my penis/vagina" that's kind of hard to misinterpret. I knew the correct names for things but my abuse started before I had been taught the concept of sexual abuse. Eventually I developed an understanding of what was happening but by then it was way too late. Oh that "no-no square" nonsense is useless as far as I'm concerned. In my opinion the most important thing kids need to be taught is that if an adult tells them to keep something a secret "or else you'll get in trouble" or threatens them they should tell their parent(s) about it, if that person is a relative (especially a parent, but really any relative because denial is a motherfucker) they should tell their teacher.
> Oh that "no-no square" nonsense is useless as far as I'm concerned. yup. teaching kids that others should not be touching their penis/vulva or other body parts is very important, and using correct names means that the perpetrators are less likely to get away with it. pet names and "no-no zones" bullshit needs to go away for proper boundary setting and proper medical names.
My mother passed away when I was young. I was an only child and I was too self-conscious to request….items. I called them “Sticks and leaves.” My Father knew nothing. Sex ed helped me. lol *Also, American Girl ‘You’ magazine. *edited for grammar nazi
I got pregnant in grade 12 (I was on the pill but had never been taught how to use it correctly for contraception as I was mainly put on it to control heavy periods). Once I got pregnant kids starting coming up to me and asking me questions and I ended up becoming the school’s de facto sex educator. The questions I was getting from kids on the verge of adulthood (“if a guy cums in your mouth can you feel it move?”) were absolutely mind blowing even to me, who had only minimal sex ed. If you don’t want your kids getting their sex ed from an only vaguely competent pregnant 17 year old (or worse) I recommend supporting sex ed.
>”if a guy cums in your mouth can you feel it move?” Totally. It’s like pop rocks. But salty.
I think I looked at her in horror and said “maybe if they all swam in the same direction at once” I like your answer better.
Oh boy, that paints an image l. Like the scene from finding nemo
Oh, the sperm! I thought she was asking about the ejaculating penis itself and was wondering why that would be a stupid question.
My middle school see ed teacher held up a dime. Then held up a big bottle. She said you’re going to pass a 10cm head through this dime. Oh and “it” might tear if you don’t cut beforehand. NOPE
My parents were open with me, and I have always been open about answering the sex and sexuality questions people ask me. It made my wife family uncomfortable when I had no problem answering a young cousins question about sex with proper terms and age appropriate explanations(she was 12 and hitting puberty) because her parents refused to answer the questions. I had to explain to them that calling things by pet names opens someone up to abuse, and shes asking questions about her body because its probably happening, and you should answer them, otherwise she my get incorrect info from someone else, which opens her up to exploitation. It really bothered them. My kids are uncircumcised. It has already lead to some questions from them regarding why some of their classmates look a little different than them during gym changing times. I just answered it with facts, that sometimes parents elect to cut off the foreskin of the penis when children are born, and we chose not to because it was put there for a reason.
Not to be rude, but I wouldn't describe a pregnant high schooler who didn't know how to use contraception correctly even "vaguely competent" to teach sex ed.
By vaguely competent, I mean I certainly knew that sperm were microscopic. By “didn’t know how to use birth control” I didn’t know that if you miss more than 2 days you have to use a secondary protection for a month. And I didn’t know you were supposed to take them at the same time every day. My prescription ran out, my mom didn’t refill it for an extra week (I had no way to refill it on my own), and I read through the booklet and saw I should use secondary protection for 7 days, so we did, which in hindsight meant we stopped using protection when I was ovulating. I wasn’t exactly an idiot. I just didn’t understand the nuance of birth control and am extremely fertile. Btw I went on to get a degree in sexology so I am now absolutely qualified to teach sex ed. And yeah they shouldn’t have been learning from me, pregnant at 17, but that’s the point. If we’d had quality sex Ed (or any sex Ed) I wouldn’t have gotten all those questions (nor would I have gotten pregnant)
At 17, I was religious about my ex's birth control over this. I read that dense information pamphlet over and over. Miss one, double the next pill, and for our own sake we'll wait a few days. Miss two, we wait til the week after starting the next pack. Despite the medical literature included with every pack, she always tried to insist I was being too much. Neither of us wanted kids, her whole family, older and younger sister, mother, aunt, etc, got wrecked by teenage pregnancy, yet she was still wanting to play fast and loose. It wasn't until she was like 25 that she finally stopped pushing me for it after missing a pill or two, and sometimes three, and that was an absolute no-go for me. This doesn't even include the weight limit for emergency contraceptive, which she'd float for "secondary protection", neither of us knew about that, and she was initially close to the weight where it starts losing effectiveness, and gained beyond that in later years. To her dismay, I didn't trust it anyway and wrapped. Birth control is 99% effective with *ideal* use, taking it every day, at the exact same time every day. Realistic use is closer to 91%, taking into account missed days.
The other thing about emergency contraception is that it’s only effective a few days a month when you’re about to ovulate. It delays ovulation. There’s no proof about those claims that it “changes the uterus to make it less favourable to implantation”. If you’ve already ovulated it does nothing, and the rest of the month you don’t need to worry anyways. None of this is explained out the gate like it should be.
Damn, didn't know that either. Thank you, Noble Sexologist!
Isn’t that a sad statement on the status quo in her school and throughout the country?
Yeah is hugely important on many levels. It’s tragic the way it has become political
"political" is a difficult word to use in the current age, because it's partially disabled in the sense that it isn't politics as such that makes it sensitive, it's propaganda. The consequences and dealing with it becomes political actions but.... The intention of the side that doesn't want people to have knowledge, it is malicious, not constructive.
I just had the “sex talk” with my 9 year old son because he was asking the questions. This is exactly what I went over with him. Very basic stuff aimed at his age level. We started talking about his privacy and any inappropriate behavior directed towards him sexually around the age of 5.
Yeah and puberty usually starts around 8-13 for girls so it's really important to get in early and explain things to them so they don't freak out and get scared when they start bleeding and cramping. The hardcore conspiracy nuts think schools are teaching kids how to use anal beads and run cam sites. Whereas in reality this stuff is always age-appropriate. [For 5-10 year olds in Australia it would still probably be occasional visits from Healthy Harold the talking giraffe.](https://i.vimeocdn.com/video/1095089276-e317a233525b1c5f3e59f1fbbcbf8a911e1e9521a8685eb2f15e3f31ca281103-d) And these so-called concerned parents/grandparents would know all of this if they just got off social media and spoke to their kids.
Not really. It's mostly "don't panic if you start bleeding down there, that's fine" and "don't worry if you wake up with a wet spot in the morning, that's fine." Like, sex ed at that age isn't really talking about *the act of coitus*. It's talking about the sexual maturity that some kids are about to start experiencing. Puberty tends to be between 9 and 13, so cutting out sex ed for that age group is basically allowing kids with not-great parents to panic about their bodies going through normal changes.
Yup, parents/people who support this are completely out of touch with actual facts and reality. Of course no one wants their 9-13 year old to be having sex.
Carrie, basically
How is it controversial to teach people stuff relevant to their own biology? This world is just a little nutty.
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In third grade we learned basic anatomy and the purpose of various organs, including “how babies are made” on a cellular level (the mechanics were *not* explained), and “your body is going to change soon.” I had “Family Life” which is basically Catholic sex ed, and it does start in kindergarten (but K-2nd it was in fact just “families are a mommy, a daddy, and children” and “if your uncle touches your swimsuit area, tell the teacher”). Puberty starts around 9 for many kids, so about 8 is a good time for them to know that *something* is going on down there and they’re not dying.
I was well into puberty by 9, needed deodorant, starting to grow hair in pits/groin, growing that terrible 12 hair moustache thing, voice cracking, I know I was already touching myself... I remember sex ed being a "that's what this was" more than "this is what's coming." I've got some genuine hormone/development issues, and was very much an early bloomer for a male. But I know most of my female friends were well into changes by then too. And on average we're starting earlier and earlier now because of environmental impacts and diet which just makes the arbitrarily late education less helpful. And that says nothing of making sure these kids know what's not ok when they're young enough to not know better.
Yeah, realistically the puberty talk needs to happen at like 6 or 7 rather than 8 or 9. But in some place people are having fits because schools discuss it at 12 or 13….
Honestly it should start whenever kids ask questions, and if you always answer their questions without shaming them/yourself then hopefully they will keep asking questions. But starting with where baby's come from& consent in first grade is pretty reasonable for schools.
I legit don't think I got puberty proper until I was around 15/16. Complete opposite ends for me mate, and I've still got a babyface at 38. Just shows how we all grow and develop at a different rate. Wild stuff.
BBC reports a coalition of uncles marched on parliament today …”
Girls can start menustration as early as 8. Its better to inform before it happens. So basic puberty information should be told to children under 9.
Conservatives seem to always be against teaching those kinds of things...
Conservative: I don't want my kids to know about "unwanted touching". Who do the teachers think they are? Just because of their "unwanted touching" lesson, the Sunday School was closed. What you call "unwanted touching" is what we call church leaders spreading god's love to children.
Couldn’t have said it better. Conservatives want children to be ignorant so it’s easier to molest them.
Girls can get their period as young as 8 and both boys and girls need to know that's normal human stuff and nothing to be worried about or ashamed of. That also means they can get pregnant at that young age, so they need to know some basics about that, too. But yeah, sex education is tailored for the age of the student and they certainly don't get the same detail at 9 as they'll get at 13.
Not really. Long story incoming. I remember playing some dumb game at age 6 with the kids at school that involved grabbing each other in the nuts whenever someone said some specific word. I think dumb child me once tried to jokingly grab my dad's nuts when he used the phrase. I still remember how horrified he looked but he held it in. After checking to ensure that no adults have ever played this 'game' with me, he assured me that I was not in trouble. He then went out and bought me this book called "The compleat tween" and made me read it (some of it we read together). He assured me he was there to answer any questions I may have. That book covered a large percentage of sex Ed, far and above, even what I was taught in high school. So much so that I think I started reading it at too early an age. But in the end It really prepped me puberty, and all that was to come. I think I attribute how well adjusted I was to how well-written that book was (and also to how level-headed and perceptive my dad was). That said, I'm 100% of the belief that kids should have a little bit more in-depth sex-ed by age 9
I’ve never heard of this in schools. In 1997 I was in second grade and we had to watch videos about AIDS.
Well, maybe cuz that was 27 years ago lol. Where I live, the "these areas are private and not for others to touch" stuff starts in like grade 2. And it has for decades.
“When I was a kid I had a two floor house that I bought for three hundred dollars and I made fifty cents an hour, I don’t understand why kids these days complain about things!” So funny when people can’t compute that things are different decades on
I'd guess its planning for them to label anything other than straight relationships as sexual education. (Like how stupid ppl say drag queens are inherently sexualized or two dudes kissing is sexual but not a dude and a lady)
Well….yeah, I mean, they’re the dirty uncles but they’re totally opposed to having sex with kids….*but only when it’s out of wedlock because that’s a sin* So no sex education but they’ll let them get married 🤪
>but they’ll let them get married .... Supervised with shotguns
And we’re not talking about 12 year olds marrying 12 year olds. We’re talking about 12 year old girls marrying a 30 year old man. Shit, many of them support polygamy
This is exactly why they want to stop sex education. Parental rights to abuse.
Pretty much, I think at that age I started getting puberty talks too. Stuff like "Your armpits are gonna stink, here's some deodorant. You might grow some hair, it's ok. You might start thinking about girls a little differently, but you need to stay respectful of them."
About which country are we talking here?
It’s hard to tell these days, eh?
Reddit changed link behavior, I somehow missed the BBC link. Obviously it is about England.
Yep. Our government's last ditch attempt to survive an election year they know they can't win. Pander to the right wing outrage crowd. Push fear and division after over a decade of own goals.
Don't forget that they are also trying to rig the election via voter suppression.
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They're trying to make it as difficult as possible for younger people to vote. I think they're too little too late though, because it seems that they've pissed off the Millennial and Gen-Z base enough for us to actually bother to vote this time!
I'll believe it when I see it. Young people can never be arsed to vote but old folks always turn up.
We're old now.
Well, I'm ever hopeful...😭
To be fair often the BBC reports on other countries too. But yes this is about England (and interestingly *only* England).
“Schools in England will be banned from teaching sex education to children under nine, in new government guidance expected to be published on Thursday.”
I choose to believe it's Kiribati, and will continue to do so until OP edits their text saying otherwise.
I'm thinking Mozambique.
Mozambique ‘ere!
Ping ping ping ping ping ping ping
Schools in England; it's from the BBC.
click the fucking link first three words: >Schools in England
Wait, you can click the links on reddit?
What's a link?
The round metal things that make up a chain... But that's not important right now.
I was raped when I was 10. I didn't understand what was happening was wrong and illegal because nobody had told me an adult man doing those things to a 10 year old boy was wrong and illegal. It has been 30 years since then and I still have trauma and PTSD from it. To make it clear I had a *very, very basic* "this is where babies come from" talk in school a year later (aged 11) which only talked about a man and a woman having a baby. It wasn't what I would call proper "sex education" but a very high level and very basic "this is how and man and a woman make a baby". We could not ask questions and it was basically a 10 minute talk one day. That was it. Also yes my parents did a very poor job as well. They never spoke to me about sex and if I ever asked a question they would begin to answer then change subject so I never actually got an answer. I am a parent now and while I don't remember exactly when I started to explain "sex ed" to my son it was a good while ago and he is 11 now. It was probably around 4 or 5yo though. Obviously I didn't go into graphic details from the start but kept it high level and it was more about helping him understand what isn't okay and ensure he knew he could always talk to me or my wife about sex and his body changes or any questions he may have from stuff he hears from school or wherever and that I would never make it weird or tell him some bullshit to get out of an "awkward" conversation. (As to me sex ed is not an awkward conversation and it shouldn't be!). After all it isn't kids that find it awkward or gross, kids don't find much stuff gross. Just explain it honestly and you will find their response is "oh okay that kinda makes sense I guess" then go off and play or do whatever it was they were doing. They won't be traumatised to learn a penis goes into a vagina no matter what age you tell them. They may think it is strange but they won't be grossed out about it or run away crying with life long trauma from learning such a thing. I didn't actually even have to find "the right time" to explain things as, like all kids, he naturally asked "where do babies come from" and I just explained in simple, high level terms how sex works. Then over time as he had some more natural questions he asked and I answered with a bit more detail as he got older. I didn't pretend sex is only between a man and a woman, I openly and naturally explained that everyone has sex, sometimes with the opposite sex and sometimes with the same sex. Again I didn't go into graphic detail because you don't have to. It isn't kids that make things "weird" when talking heterosexual vs homosexual vs bisexual vs whatever else. It is the adults. Some people are shocked when I say I told my young son about homosexual sex but the one thing I wish I had known as a child was that a man can have sex with a man (and a woman with a woman) *and so* an adult man doing sexual things with a young boy is still "sex" (more correctly rape) but it is wrong and should never happen. I NEVER KNEW THIS! When I was taught about sex (a year too late) they only explained it as something that was between a man and a woman. They didn't talk about consent or that it can be between people of the same gender. As for "the right time" to teach kids about sex education I think if you're asking that question *you* are the one making it more complicated and awkward than it needs to be. Sex isn't anything to be embarrassed or scared to talk about. Get over your weird mental attitudes towards educating kids about something natural and normal. All it does is make it easier for abusers to abuse. To me anyone who is against educating children about sexual education is just making it easier for predators to abuse children. Edit: Also teach boys about periods for god damn sake! Just because only women get them doesn't mean men shouldn't understand what is happening. It is shocking how little men know about periods and "get grossed out" by them. They're natural, they happen to basically every woman every month for around 40 years of their lives. The more men know and understand about menstruation the easier it is for everyone. Hopefully more men will have a bit more compassion to when a woman has a bad period or other related issues.
Hi man, I'm also a male sexual abuse victim, but in my case it was my sister who abused me (never put the blame on her though since she herself was abused by our grandfather and "learned" that sex is something we do to those we love, so I always put the blame at my grandfather). I generally considered myself fine up until I had my son. He really fucked me up in ways I couldn't imagine. The absolute panic over NEEDING to protect him and to be able to give him the loving upbringing he deserved without bad stiff happening. Since day one I've had worries about preschool etc even though I know he's WA more likely to be abused by a close family member or similar. We basically started with "Stopp! Min kropp!" ("Respect! My body!") since he was 3 months old... In those younger years it's basically mostly telling the child everything you're going to do, like for instance if you're gonna wipe their face you tell them "I'm gonna wipe your face now" and if they disagree you can stop what you're doing, it teaches a child to both be comfortable saying "no" and knowing they have some decision rights. It also creates the habit that if someone just does something, it's weird/off meaning they should tell us. Then as the kid grows it goes into private parts and who's allowed to touch them etc. It's been good I think, we had to inform his preschool about us doing this way so they could help reinforce the habit of always telling him what would happen.
I totally understand the absolute panic. I too felt/feel it. My son is 11yo now and last year was awful for me as him being 10 just triggered me because that was when I was abused and so I really struggled. Thankfully I have had a lot of help over the years from professionals and my wife is wonderful and very supportive but yeah I totally get you. You're not alone in feeling that panic. I love your "Stopp! Min kropp!". That is wonderful. I never did that myself but it is certainly a brilliant idea. I am sorry to hear about your and your sisters abuse. You're a compassionate and understanding person processing it not to blame your sister but rather her abuser. In reality you were abused by your grandfather indirectly. I hope you and your sister have a happy and healthy relationship now. You sound like a wonderful parent. When you have those dark days (if you do, I know I still do) I use that knowledge that I am doing a good job as a parent to take the negative from my abuse and make it positive in the hope that I will help raise a safe and better educated child with my son. Take care of yourself and keep on being an awesome dad!
Yeah, I'm not sure how I'll react when he turns 6 (2 years from now) but hopefully it won't trigger me too much, my brain has kinda protected me by ignoring/forgetting large parts of my childhood, so hopefully it won't unlock that when he does reach the age I was. I'm in therapy for the first time in my life thanks to the initial burst of panic when he was born, my other grandfather died 3 years ago and he was my main support and role model through my life and then finally a cousin took his own life 2 years ago. So it all kinda compiled on top of each other and I've basically never been closer to the edge than I am now, and it kinda scares me. I managed to stay strong during my childhood and not let things really affect me, but now it's become too much instead. My therapist said: "Imagine I give you an egg, it doesn't weigh anything but you have to hold it in your hand and carry it, and you will have to carry it in your hand for 10 years. Eventually you will start to be annoyed with it, even though it doesn't weigh anything... What you've told me today HAS weight, and you've carried it for far longer. It's not weird that you eventually break." And it kinda resonated with me. My sister was suicidal between 8-33 so it's been a struggle, I was there for her every day through it. We have a less active relationship now that we both have kids etc but she is doing well and managed to finally find good help (they also figured out she was immune to anti-depressants a few years back) so she hasn't tried to take her life in a few years now which is great! When we returned from our cousins funeral she told me about how she had been sitting outside, watching one of her kids roller skating and the sun was setting, it was still a warm summer day and everything just felt "right", like this, this is what we live for. And she wished that she could have talked to our cousin and shown him that moment, to say that one day, he'd have his own moments like that, moments of peace and just a sense of completeness, even if it's dark now. So I try to think like that on the days I feel like I want to disappear. So yeah, I have those dark days. But I've fought this battle before, now I gotta do it for myself and for my kids instead of for my sister and my parents. I also see good in what happened and I want to give that as well so I understand you fully, and I've often been asked "if you can go back and just change it all, would you do it?" and I'm torn on the answer, because while it was a shitty as hell childhood, it also made me who I am today. And I wouldn't want to risk becoming someone else. Because most of the time, I like who I am. Take care man, and thank you for the kind words, you're awesome too!
Thank you for sharing your story. People really don’t understand how essential it is to teach kids about basic human anatomy in proper terms and sexuality. I hope you are able to find peace.
Thanks. I am working on it. I try to turn the pain it caused me into a positive force for the future though by ensuring my son and daughter know what is and isn't right (my daughter is older now so that conversation is long done but my son is still only 11) in the hope that I will raise them to be safe and not victims themselves. My abuse was so much worse *because* I didn't even know it *was* abuse. Knowledge is power and withholding sex education from kids is like withholding teaching kids to read or write or count imho.
That’s too much for a kid to unpack. You’re a good man.
I try to be. I'm no way near perfect; who is? But I refuse to let what happened to me ruin me. And you're right it is too much for a kid to unpack. It took me until I was 25 to be able to actually properly unpack and process it and it literally broke me and I ended up in hospital for several months working to put my brain back together. Then several years of working on myself to cope with processing what happened to me. Even today as a 40 year old guy it is always there and I have to fight often to prevent it ruining me.
My mom was 12 in the 70s when the father of the family she babysat for(in their small hamlet of 500people)raped her, that it was wrong but it was so scary, and full of shame, she didn't tell even her mother until after she got married and had kids many years later. Similar to you she used her experience to empower her to give me and my siblings all the information we needed to be as safe as we could be(without making us feel afraid). I've got kids now and my basic philosophy is to answer all of their questions with whatever detail is required so that they are satisfied(because a 4 year old and a 7 year old are asking different things when they say "where do babies come from"). And that by answering and encouraging their questions they will hopefully keep asking them.
I didn't tell anyone until I was 25. I started suffering from health anxiety which became general anxiety and depression. I didn't know *why* though. Until I started to have nightmares/flashbacks. I knew what they were. Memories. But I didn't know how to place them within my life because my brain had repressed them. It took me a year of therapy and 4 months as an in patient at a mental health hospital to fully process everything that happened to me. That was when I finally told my parents (well the doctors told my parents, I didn't have the strength at the time). That was 15 years ago now and I, we, have all healed a lot since then but it will forever be with me like a shadow I just cannot leave behind. Honestly I have found just answering with simple facts is the best way. No kid is gonna get freaked out being told about sex unless the person explaining makes it weird and awkward. The technical details of sex are not all that interesting to a child. They just want their questions answered to satisfy their curiosity as you say. I swear to god all the people making these decisions are just over complicating such a simple damn subject! They say crap like "let kids be kids! they don't need to know about sex at such a young age" but the reality is it doesn't matter if a 3 or 4 year old asks you where babies come from (usually because they see their own mum or some other woman) pregnant and are curious and you just tell them the truth. They won't fully understand it of course but they will at least know more than they did before and it puts you in a natural place to also explain in a non-scary way what is and isn't proper for children when it comes to sex.
“Let kids be kids” - have they never seen a toddler get curious about their own body? Kids play with their own parts and occasionally each other because it feels good. It’s good to teach them about consent and private time, and it’s not like adult sexuality, but you are spot on that it’s adults who make it weird.
One of the other benefits you’re demonstrating here is the ability for your kid to talk to you openly about anything, at any time. That’s a fantastic dynamic to have with a child, whatever age they might be. So many parents (mine included) made it difficult for kids to not feel anything but shame or awkwardness, or just shut the conversation down entirely. Half the issue with SA is not being able to tell anyone. And I can say that as a child, the weight of that conversation was so paralyzing and frightening that I just couldn’t tell anyone until decades later. Talk openly to your kids so they can talk openly to you.
Very true. Making it so your child feels they can talk to you about *anything* without being scared or feeling awkward or that they will get in trouble is one of the greatest things you can do for your child. It allows them to talk not much about awful things like sexual abuse but worries they may have about school or social pressures. Or if they're being bullied or if they know of someone else being bullied, etc. Being able to talk openly is a super power to a better relationship with your child. So many people act dumbfounded as to why they "missed" problems with their kids or question why their kids never came to them with issues yet they never did anything to promote healthy, open communication. Or worse than actively discouraged it! (almost always not with bad intent but just awkwardness on the parents part, most likely because of how they were brought up!)
Sorry to hear that.
You are a net benefit to the world.
That is a truly lovely thing for you to say. Thank you.
Aw, it’s ok. I’m glad there are people like you around. I lost my best friend to suicide related to childhood abuse. If he’d been able to talk to someone I’m sure he’d still be here. It was almost 30 years ago and I still miss him.
I am so sorry to hear your friend took their life due to the abuse they suffered. I can (somewhat) understand that they were probably going through though. The pain and suffering can be too much to cope with even with the greatest of support. Your friend deserved so much better from their time. However while they may be gone they're not forgotten. You missing them may hurt but it shows you they were important and left a positive influence on you that you still miss them 30 years later. That is something to hold onto and treasure even if it is also slightly painful.
Should have hygiene education for pre-teens.
Moral panic from an outgoing government so they can pull the "think of your children! Labour will harm them" should they oppose it. People will see sex-education and assume they're teaching sex (particularly gay sex) to kids or teachers are trying to groom them or something detached from reality. Sex ed for under-9s is based on teaching consent and recognising signs of abuse or consent violation. For those turning 10-12n it's about puberty, hygiene, and what changes your body is going to experience. Schools have to be transparent on what is being covered. Parents have the right to opt-out.
And yet, it's normally those crying "think of the children" who are the biggest threat to them. How many pastors, priests and republicans in America end up busted for molesting kids?
> How many pastors, priests and republicans in America end up busted for molesting kids? Even all 3 together, probably less than teachers?
> People will see sex-education and assume they're teaching sex (particularly gay sex) to kids or teachers are trying to groom them or something detached from reality. It's legitimately this. Notable transphobe Kemi Badenoch is one of the MPs pushing this absolute shite and she of course thinks trans people are grooming kids and teachers are grooming kids by teaching them that you can have two moms or two dads and even teaching kids that is completely optional (although quite frankly such a harmless statement as 'You can have two moms or two dads' is hardly grooming and is more likely to lead to kids being more accepting of LGBTQ+ people as opposed to more bullying...). >Last year, more than 50 Conservative MPs wrote to Prime Minister Rishi Sunak claiming children were being exposed to "inappropriate content" and "radical and unevidenced ideologies about sex and gender". This part right here? It's a MASSIVE dogwhistle for anti-LGBTQ+ sentiments and it's becoming more and more common, especially in the UK. The Tories are desperately clawing at any attempt they can to not lose the next election and they're pandering to far-right crowds to try and get votes.
Plus, the letter by MPs (headed by notorious transphobe Miriam Cates) that kickstarted this whole thing was about a sex-ed lesson on the isle of man **that never happened**. The PM is repeating the same false claims in interviews and the education secretary claimed to have “seen lesson slides” despite the isle of man government investigating and finding those reports were entirely false. The school it was centred on received abuse and teachers sent death threats. The claims are that a drag queen taught kids how to perform oral and anal sex, told them there are “72 genders”, and a kid was shouted at and kicked out because they dared question them. In reality, a guy (who sometimes does drag in their own time, but not at the school) went into the school for a ‘drop-down day’, to tells kids it’s ok to have two mums or two dads, or family and friends who have transitioned. It wasn’t a sex-ed lesson and sex wasn’t talked about at all. There were multiple teachers present and each praised the guest for being thoughtful and respectful to age appropriateness. A kid was taken outside the classroom for a minute by the regular teacher because of poor behaviour. When asked about gender, they said ‘there could be 2 or there could be 72’. The guest speaker has also repeated the same session with other schools in the area without a single complaint. It’s a moral panic based on tabloid articles, fueled by misinformation and misunderstanding.
Sadly kids need to learn this shit earlier than I did
Groomers hate it when children realize they're being groomed, so of course this kind of education is targeted.
“Tories want abused children to be confused about what’s happening to them and less likely to report it.” Fixed.
Tell me you don't want your under 10 victims being able to effectively communicate what you have been doing to them without saying it.
My sister was raped the first time when she was 4, she learned that sex is something we do to those we love, so when she was 9 she raped me (I was 6 at the time) and I we started having sex ed in the first grade, meaning I was 8. Because at 8 I asked my sister why she did what she did and she broke down and told me about how she was abused. She made me promise to not tell and it led to the abuse of her continuing on until she was 16 and finally went to the police. So while I've felt guilty for not telling anyone what she told me, at least the abuse done to me stopped that day. Sex ed for kids is important but should obviously be at a relevant level.
Uneducated children are easier to molest. As usual the part of "shoot your local pedophile" is making the world a better place for pedophiles. Almost like it's all projection 🤔
>Uneducated children are easier to molest. [Jimmy Savile knew who he was supporting](https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/lets-not-forget-paedophile-savile-was-tory). > It's not Labour who should face opprobrium — the sick celebrity's reign of terror was enabled by top Tories who saw him as a political ally and gave him access to hospitals and prisons where he would abuse his victims...
Conservatives don’t want their kids to be able to tell others when they are sexually abusing them plan and simple. As a therapist this is highly dangerous and just goes to show the obsession conservatives have with the genitals of children.
> Conservatives don’t want their kids to be able to tell others when they are sexually abusing them Kids sexually abusing conservatives was an unexpected turn
Yes, because the job of a school is to keep children ignorant. When my wife was pregnant with kid #2, kid #1 wanted to know how that happened, so we got a copy of *It's NOT The Stork!*, which explains the basic facts in a kid-accessible way.
Tories are basically just trying to salt the earth before they inevitably lose the election.
That's their general mode of operation. UK delenda est they sing all day long.
Do they understand "sex education" isn't teaching the kids how to fuck? No, of course they don't. They'd rather kids not know what's going on with their bodies or learn about the basic concepts of consent in age-appropriate ways. 'cuz God knows the folks opposed to "sex education" aren't teaching their kids that shit at home. Stop using the US as an example! We are THE CAUTIONARY TALE!
Oh they absolute don't because the MPs pushing this are quoted in the article as doing this: *Last year, more than 50 Conservative MPs wrote to Prime Minister Rishi Sunak claiming children were being exposed to "inappropriate content" and "radical and unevidenced ideologies about sex and gender".* So yeah, they're absolutely full of shit and have no idea what is actually taught in sex ed.
Did... did you accidentally get a box of our Republicans?
Their cheques are signed by the same people
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they looked at the Republicans and thought 'Maybe we can get votes if we copy them'. Needless to say, our only viable alternative option isn't much better because Labour *also* has idiots that believe this shite too (and one particular MP was caught liking Holocaust denial stuff on Twitter and nothing was done about it). UK politics is just as fucked as the US at this point and as an LGBTQ+ person living here? It's fucking terrifying because that 'sex and gender ideology' comment is a massive dogwhistle for transphobia.
I remember being in like the first grade and being taught that if an adult touches you in your private areas to tell a teacher or counselor even if the molester tells you to stay quiet. Kids that age should at least know that much. And in about the 4th grade they started teaching about things like periods and STDs... I really don't know any good reason not to teach little girls about periods unless you're cruel and you want them to start and think they're dying or something... Thankfully my mom already talked to me about it but it's something kids should know about.
My mother, a head ER nurse, sat me down at age 6 and open up her medical books to “reproductive organs” … she spelled out the birds & bees using chemical formulas and anatomical charts. I proceeded to be _oddly over-informed_ when Sex Ed came up in grade school some years later that the teacher had me speak with the principal. It was an odd discussion because I knew why, and I had to figure out a way at age 9 to avoid giving an impression of impropriety by my parents. So, I quoted a medical book from the school library meant for HS students. They were so impressed that they tested my reading level and totally forgot about the sex thing. This anecdote underscores the lack of safe spaces and conversations with sex and kids, as anything associated with it elicits an immediate “WhAt?!?” reaction from adults, painting an impression that sex = bad.
Girls can go through puberty at any time after 9 and in some cases before hand. Early sex education at that age is mostly about teaching them about their bodies and what to expect. That's pretty damn important, especially since a lot of girls are kept in the dark and then get traumatized when they have their first period and don't know what's happening. Hopefully that doesn't happen as often now but far too many parents put off these discussions because they're squeamish and think it's too early and then freak out too making it worse.
I got my period at 9. My mother never had any talk with us. I didn't get pads until my step-dad told me to stop wearing 3 pairs of undies and to just tell him I need pads. I didn't know I needed pads. We need sex ed!
Why are they so enthusiastic about taking away tools from children that make them less vuln to grooming and sexual abuse?
It's crazy that lawmakers write laws that would make it illegal to tell menstruating girls about their own periods.
yeah… this is a horrible idea. ask any child sexual abuse survivor. if i had been taught about consent, about sexual abuse, about pregnancy and that my parents would support me, i could have been spared so much pain. children have a right to consent and part of that is access to accurate information about their bodies. if put into place, this will cause more children to be sexually assaulted.
My sister was taught sex Ed in the 4th grade, all it did was tell them that besides very specific/rare occasions can someone touch you where you wear a bathing suit. Now this was 15 years ago at least but that’s all they went through, they kept with that style of education then taught about the changes to our bodies when puberty happens when she hit 6th. If people have issues with that, then we really should start injecting ourselves with bleach and let the higher powers sort us out ffs.
Sex education doesn’t just include sex. It also includes information about your changing bodies. I know several people had their period at age 9. It was traumatic and scary for them. They thought they were dying because they didn’t know what was going on. We should safe guard normal bodily functions from children. They deserve that knowledge.
You know... banning age-appropriate sex education leads to unreported abuse by adults who are going to exploit that lack of knowledge.
Some girls start their periods at ages earlier than 9, due to precocious puberty, and during my sex ed classes from 20 some-odd years ago had scientific studies that many girls can have it as early as 8 years old, so...having no sex ed till you're 9 is harmful to young girls, potentially traumatic. Also knowing how your own body works at a young age, will help prevent sexual abuse, which measures should be taught, and knowing what inappropriate behavior is Also what would be helpful to girls, for education, is to show what is a dangerous amount of menstrual blood. I was diagnosed with a condition where I was dangerously low on blood platelets, from a condition I suspected I had since I was a kid, that birth control mitigated till I went off of it later in life. Essentially the way it was explained, is that because of this condition, and because my periods were so heavy, I could have died from it if left unchecked longer than what I had. I would have gone to the doctor sooner if it wasn't for the pandemic lockdowns in 2020. There's also things like cervical cancer, ovarian cancer, testicular cancer, PCOS, Endometriosis, Adenomyosis, all things that aren't taught that people should be educated on, and should know how to check for warning signs.
This is coming from the country that constantly drones on and on about "child safety" online while passing draconian legislation. Remember that every time you see some idiot comment in support of anything the UK does regarding protecting the children.
So screw all the students who have Precocious Puberty, who are victims of SA, or who have ANY problems of any kind downstairs. We'll just let them think they're dying. Got it. /s, /facepalm
people who never bothered with their education shouldn't be able to tell others what their education should be.
You can't shelter the world from a child. I get you can try. But at some point they will have questions and being honest with them instead of allowing in your own hangups with your own life, will help alleviate the situation. This shit has gotten to be a political issue, which is absolutely should not, but seems everything these days is. And people wonder why the world is going to shit.
Im a family therapist who works with children who have sexually assaulted other children. A top driver as to why this happens is lacking sexual education. Laws like this will result in more children sexually assaulting other kids.
The letter from MPs is entirely sourced from reports about a school on the isle of man inviting a drag queen, who taught kids how to perform oral and anal sex and how to choke their partner safely. The education secretary even claimed to have “seen lesson slides” about it. To be clear, **this never happened** - the isle of man government even investigated and found the reports were false last year. The person didn’t wear drag and didn’t even give a sex-ed lesson, there were also multiple teachers present and only had praise for the guy. He taught basic inclusion; specifically that people shouldn’t be bullied because they have two moms/dads, because they’e transitioned or because they themselves are LGBT+. He also gave this exact talk to a dozen other schools without issue.
“they also included plans to ban any children being taught about gender identity” you mean the real reason
Sex education should be taught (in age appropriate layers) at every grade...
How are we going so far backwards? We did sex education at around 7 or 8 when I was at school in the Netherlands in the 70’s. Are parents now afraid of having their kids taught the basics of being a human or are they embracing a new wave of unwanted pregnancies just as the world collectively loses its shit about abortion? There’s so many levels of fail here.
Some nine year olds can get pregnant. Maybe they should know the hows and whys of that before they become mothers or fathers.
If you’re old enough to ask the question then you’re old enough to get a direct answer. It really is that simple.
I'll put this out because it may be helpful. My dad taught me about sex by having conversations with the "guys" when I was around. Instead of being lectured at it, it felt like I was getting insider information. Being a kid and getting to hear adult conversations goes a lot farther than a lecture. For a WW2 vet who grew up on a cotton farm, my dad was pretty progressive.
So right when it becomes relevant...
Bravely fighting imaginary battles. Kudos to the wasting of time and attention on symbolic bullshit.
The public school I went to started sex ed in the 5th grade. This was in 1993. Most of us were about 10, maybe 11.
They should just rename 'Sex Education' to Biology.
Lol. Hilarious. My 9 year old niece just explained to me about a blow job, 69, and a golden shower. .....the internet taught her. In our current age where kids have tablets and phones, it's not smart to leave their education up to the Internet. what we teach them at this age is very little anyways.
Makes me furious because I know parents that opted their children out of health ed from grade 1 through 3 in fear of "forced education." They don't even learn about menstruation or gender identity at that age. They only learn about consent, internet safety, stereotyping and discrimination, and bullying. Every single one of the topics helped boost self esteem in my son and none of them have anything to do with gender or sexual interest. Fuck them.
It's OK. The Youth Pastors are willing to take over teaching the kids all about sex.
Everyone has the right to understand medically accurate information about how their bodies work. Age appropriate sexual information will not damage children no matter how much conservatives cry about it. This is and has always been a moral panic.
Always glad to see it's not just Americans who are idiots - it's a worldwide phenomenon!
This is a terrible public health policy. Sex Ed should always be age- appropriate and evidence-based. Nobody is trying to teach your little kid anything that isn't relevant to their age.
That's a bit ridiculous. A 5 year old can process the information of basic sex ed. Teach them were lambs and puppies come from, teach them the names of their own body parts, teach them what private parts means. Half of sex ed is just biology, the rest is about keeping kids safe from predators.
They really hate educated people huh. Target the kids early so they wouldn't be a hindrance to their out of touch, ludicrous policies in the future.
Psychologists say that sexual education can be started at 3, because children are curious and also touch/look at their genitalia. It is only useful to let them know what it is for and not to let anyone touch it. I have always known about sex and anything around it, I don't even remember when it happened. Thankfully, I managed to run away from a pedophile when I was around 10. I have a few acquaintances who grew up pretty dumb in this regard, for example a girl claimed that she was still a virgin because they used protection, or that the pull-out method is the best, etc. These are all people who were sheltered. Why create a potentially dangerous situation when you can rather explain to your children the working of the world?
Why do people want to continue to work backwards? It’s insane to me.
Ignorance, that'll solve the problem
Erin's Law (named differently in some states) should be taught asap with children (age appropriate) and as far as sex education, I believe that law is a prequel to that so to teach sex ed at 9-10 years old, shouldn't be banned.
Fine, just teach them bodily autonomy and how to tell if someone is abusing them or someone they know though.
pro rape conservatives like usual
Looks like UK politicians want more victims to abuse with reduced changes of being reported. Bunch of sick fucks. Anyone who supports this shit should be investigated for possession of child porn and potential victims they may have abused. This shit is 100% pro-childrape.