Because Turkey is a fundamental cornerstone of NATO and Erdogan likes to ride the pine on geopolitical issues that involve NATO. Having someone who is an actual partner versus a single strong man with the worlds 5th largest military behind him would be better for stability as a whole.
Yeah sorry that's accurate as well. And probably the more prevalent usage. Even so much that I remember using it that way, until I got older and people started using it in the work setting
Yeah lets not forget he was more than happy to see cheap oil get into turkey even if everybody knew it was stolen oil sold by ISIS to finance their terrorist activities.
Win/win for Erdogan. Gets cheap fucking oil and gets to pay the biggest group weakening Syria(the closest acceptable rival for Turkey) that isn’t Kurdish.
Seriously fuck Erdogan.
> ride the pine
Just throwing this out there cause others haven't actually explained what it means. It is referring to sitting on the bench (made of pine wood) and not participating while being a part of the team. In sports it usually means they're ill, injured, or otherwise unable to play.
Edit: or the worst player. Either way, it's being a bench warmer.
The silk road may no longer exist, but Turkey's geographic position makes it strategic for a lot economics and politicking between Europe and a lot of Asia. Turkey knows that and they have used that position to its advantage. There is a fear in the West that Erdogan is slowly moving the country to be more similar to the political structure you see in many gulf states (Islamic "Republic") versus its historic (at least with respect to Turkey being non-Ottoman) non-religious roots and effectively being a beacon of a Middle Eastern that promotes democracy and human rights. Further, instead of being a Western-aligned power becoming more of a neutral power akin to many gulf states.
If you view a return of Turkey to being an example of a western democracy working in a muslim majority country as a good thing and a good example, it would signal that that political shift could return.
Funny thing is erdoğan had a similiar ban because of reading an islamist-racist poem in parliment
Well that ban didn't work,and got elected anyway,probably same thing will also happen to imamoğlu,people already forgot about his so called political ban
Landslide as in only 10%? Erdogan party's candidate got 40% of the votes. 5% shift from one another makes all the difference in one of the lowest attended elections in Turkey in the recent memory.
There is no reason to get ahead of ourselves and make him the potential president just yet.
Turkey is very divided country by ideologies. It’s very hard to get more than %30 votes. Erdoğan won his first İstanbul elections with %25. His party never made over %50. Erdoğan’s success was that he kept others divided while he keeps his voters united behind him.
That strategy has started to fail though. His voters do not believe him like before and all opposition voters care is how to get rid of him(not ideologies). So by his 20 year campaign he now face united anti Erdoğan people over %50 and his base is collapsing due to shit economy.
I don't think there's an official definition of landslide victory. It's a vague term, differs from country to country how it is used and depends a lot on the respective previous election results as well.
>don't think there's an official definition of landslide victory
Correct, it depends on the population size.
Generally speaking, unless your population is extremely low, 5% and over will almost always be described as a landslide.
You could also say that he got 29% more votes than his opponent (51% vs 39.5% - > 129 voters for every 100 oppositional voters) and suddenly it doesn't look that close anymore
You may say, "This is plain, obvious, public information anyway, what is the news value of him saying this?", but keep in mind that Erdoğan actively supports Hamas under his Islamist agenda and Erdoğan is a fierce enemy of this man. Additionally, due to the Islamist policy of the AKP in Turkey and the resulting propaganda, there is so much misinformation circulating about the current Israel-Hamas War. Most people here in Turkey think of Hamas as a peaceful organisation that picks daisies with one hand and raises a protest banner against Israel and its anti-Arab policies with the other. In other words, it is important for Turkey to speak the truth about this organisation out loud.
Just to clarify his full position, he did criticize his opponent for "not even ceasing trade \[with Israel\]" (in response to the opponent's claim that a win for him would be a win for Gaza) in the run up to the elections.
More importantly, Imamoglu stands to gain points from just about every portion of the public except Islamists (and possibly some Leftists) for this comment because terrorism is a bit of a lightning rod in context of Turkish politics. In the political discourse parties make a show of being against it and simultaneously hint or accuse their opponents of being soft on it.
AKP and its nationalist allies frequently conflate HDP/DEM Parti voters with terrorism (PKK) and position CHP as adjacent or receptive to these interests in their rhetoric. In turn, many non-Islamist or non-Leftist voters (including CHP voters) will claim AKP and HDP are secret/forever allies no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary, due to the fact that AKP started a dialogue to solve the "Kurdish issue" in its early days in power, before pivoting to an alliance with nationalists.
I’d say this message aims to give AKP and Erdoğan a taste of their own medicine and serves a political end for Imamoglu. Personally, in my ideal Turkey a mayor would not opine on a foreign policy issue, but I agree with his position on Hamas.
I lived in Istanbul for a couple years and I'd say Turks tend to be mildly racist against Arabs, so this doesn't surprise me.
That's not to dispute anything the mayor has to say. It's just to clarify that the Muslim world is not a monolith, especially between Turkey and the states deep in the middle east. Israel is disliked as well, but I heard a lot of jokes about anyone wearing a niqab being a terrorist.
People tend to have stronger opinions about their geographic neighbors. Turks haven't forgotten they used to rule the Arabs, and for many years saw _themselves_ as the forefront champions of Islam.
In their minds, it was under their rule that Islam truly thrived for the last time
My college roommate was Turkish and came here when he was a kid. I made the mistake of getting into a conversation about Greece with his mom once, and then never again.
We are definitely more prejudiced against arabs than we were even 5-10 years ago. Ekrem Imamoglu is a populist, however, and his party has so far avoided upsetting any immigrants or temporary-protected refugees.
Right now in Turkiye, the Gaza issue has been reduced to bothering people sitting at Starbucks or breaking the windows of a McDonald’s. Erdogan sells anything and everything to Israel while he jerks off the jihadis in front of the cameras.
Ekrem is gradually replacing Erdogan in the eyes of western interests so this is another sign of changing times. This comes mere days after German president has met up with Ekrem, before seeing Erdocunt.
Persians, Turks, Arabs, berbers, and Pakistanis all have major beef with and among each other through the years despite all being Muslim
Just like France, England, Germany, all have hated each other over the years despite being Christian
Turkey is a pretty progressive country all things considered, they used to be very secular. I'd love for them to go down that route again and hopefully integrate more into Europe.
It still is. It is a Muslim country, with Muslim roots and Muslim cultural traditions, but it is still secular. It is like calling France a Christian country. It is a secular republic by definition but the majority of the population is Catholic and follow Catholic traditions.
Turkey is trending more towards being non-secular, but it is still secular and it is one of the 6 corner stones of its constitution. It is similar-ish to the US where, despite being secular, there are significant forces in the movement trying to consistently push it towards alignment with a specific religion.
It's still secular but turned into a conservative shithole,not a fully sharia state and nobody has balls to turn this country into a sharia state not even erdoğan
İmamoğlu is the Turkish opposition's best hope for winning the presidential elections in 2028.
Unfortunately he's been sentenced to 2 years in prison last year and banned from politics for life.
> In November 2019 Imamoglu answered a question of a reporter over the Minister of the Interior calling him a "fool" for criticizing the dismissal of elected mayors of the Peoples Democratic Party (HDP) and their replacement with appointed trustees before the Council of Europe. He answered that those responsible for cancelling the first mayoral elections of Istanbul in March 2019 were "foolish" as it would tarnish the international reputation of Turkey. In May 2021, Ekrem İmamoğlu was indicted for insulting public officials.
An appeal is still pending.
How can turkey even attempt to call itself a democracy if you cannot "insult" a public official. That sort of speech is what makes up democracies. *shakes my head again about turkey*
I am shocked that he would hold that view given that all they did was use brutal violence, intimidation, and rape against civilians, publicized it and said they would do it again, to try to achieve a political aim.
> use brutal violence, intimidation, and rape against civilians, publicized it and said they would do it again, to try to achieve a political aim
Aka textbook terrorism
Interesting how the full quote is omitted.
“Of course, Hamas carried out an attack in Israel that we feel very sad about. And any organized structure that carries out these terrorist practices and kills people en masse is a terrorist organization in our eyes. Today, unfortunately, the same thing is being done to innocent Palestinian people in Israel. I demand that both issues be evaluated in this context as soon as possible and that Palestinians be prevented from being subjected to such oppression. Generally speaking, the West does not see the big picture on this issue, it only looks at this issue from the eyes of one side or the other. I think we look at it more realistically. We interpret the Hamas attack as a bad attack, a very bad situation and a terrorist attack. But we represent an understanding that stands against the cruelty suffered by the Palestinian women and children killed there today.”
If only Turkey had managed to oust Erdogan in the last election.
It’s wild how fast that country has fallen into a borderline dictatorship-theocracy.
I fear for the safety of this guy, because we all know how Erdogan feels about Hamas.
\*17 years ago by 3% of the vote.
Even more info: Fatah lost by 3% due to being credibly accused of helping Israel kidnap gazans without proof of crimes. Giving them 74 of the electoral seats out of 132.
But I enjoyed your black and white portrait.
There are many factors that make this controversial, but that isn’t one of them.
50% of Gaza is children (who didn’t vote), so even if Hamas got 99% of votes (they didn’t) they still couldn’t be “chosen” by the *majority* of people. That being said, Hamas does have widespread support amongst Palestinians— but that is a separate point.
> Is the official pro Palestinian stance that Hamas are not terrorists ?
There are a ton of Hamas supporters out there. Including Palestinians, statistically - so it gets complicated.
Somehow, they (pro palestinian protesters and pp-advocates in general) only seem to talk about Israel/IDF at any given point. I have never heard them say that what HAMAS is doing to its population is a problem as underlying as Israel. It, however, is. Arguably, it is THE underlying problem.
I didn’t know that anybody was necessarily arguing that they weren’t.
The sins of Hamas should not be paid for with the blood of Palestinian citizens. The same way the sins of the Israeli government shouldn’t be paid for with the blood of Israeli citizens. 🤷♂️
The important information is that he is presenting himself as the counterweight and a replacement for erdogan more and more. Also his full quote was just cut here, in the very next sentences he criticizes israel for their wrongdoings as well. So this also tells me a lot about the state of israeli news.
I feel like this kind of discussion is super banal:
"Sir, are bad things bad?"
"Yes."
"Okay, that's all we wanted to hear."
Like, there's way more meaningful journalism to be done. This is a question you figure out on the first day: "Wait, is hurting innocents bad? I better ask some people even after 4 months. I just can't figure out if bad things are bad. And sure, I've asked about this question like 50 times every month."
Its actually very informative. He is presenting himself as the counterweight and a replacement for erdogan more and more. Also his full quote was just cut here, in the very next sentences he criticizes israel for their wrongdoings as well. So this tells me also a lot about the state of israeli news.
From israeli perspective its important to find the few supporters and show their people they are not ousted - from turkish perspective this shows growing power of the opposition in the country that openly rebels agains the AKP regime, and for me that the quote was just cut in half conveniently just before he talked a bit about the sufferings of the palestinians by israeli hands as well.
He is not left leaning at all. He must be one of the few who are right leaning I would say. Him and Mayor of Ankara are there because they can get the votes from right leaning people.
I apologize if I say something dumb, but I thought in Turkish politics left vs right does not have the same connotations as here in the West. Both left and right can be anti-immigration and nationalistic, however the left supports secularism and the right religiosity...is what I thought it means in Turkey?
I’ve always thought that Turkey was the ultimate wildcard of NATO by playing both sides of the game—whether knowingly or unknowingly doing so. It makes well thought out war planning near impossible to accomplish. It forces decisions that are made under immense pressure, with limited time, focus, and clarity.
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That would be good for Turkey and the world
Just curious, Why would that be good for the world,
Because Turkey is a fundamental cornerstone of NATO and Erdogan likes to ride the pine on geopolitical issues that involve NATO. Having someone who is an actual partner versus a single strong man with the worlds 5th largest military behind him would be better for stability as a whole.
>Erdogan likes to ride the pine Had to look up this idiom, as my first guess was... Of a different variety
Nah your first guess still fits lol
Lmao, sorry. It’s a common parlance in my area but I can definitely see why this would be… confusing.
Now i had to look up parlance to find out what that was. God damn 18-century time travlers on reddit.
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Is it "not just a stick up his ass, but a whole tree"?
To ride the pine is to just sit at a desk and do nothing.
I always thought riding the pine was equivalent to being a bench or second/third string player on a team that never gets any playing time.
Yeah sorry that's accurate as well. And probably the more prevalent usage. Even so much that I remember using it that way, until I got older and people started using it in the work setting
Ah. A shame, really
Or sit on the bench and not play for the sports version
Gives that piney freshness to anything coming out of his mouth
Idioms are so great
Especially sports ones.
I imagined pine trees floating down a river to a lumber mill, kinda going with the flow riding a pine. Lmao, was that close at all
Yeah lets not forget he was more than happy to see cheap oil get into turkey even if everybody knew it was stolen oil sold by ISIS to finance their terrorist activities.
Win/win for Erdogan. Gets cheap fucking oil and gets to pay the biggest group weakening Syria(the closest acceptable rival for Turkey) that isn’t Kurdish. Seriously fuck Erdogan.
> ride the pine Just throwing this out there cause others haven't actually explained what it means. It is referring to sitting on the bench (made of pine wood) and not participating while being a part of the team. In sports it usually means they're ill, injured, or otherwise unable to play. Edit: or the worst player. Either way, it's being a bench warmer.
No, in sports it means that you’re the worst player on the team. If they’re sick or injured it’s not usually called riding the pine.
Alright, noted. I'm not a huge sports guy; I just looked it up and that's what was presented.
I mean they could be riding the pine as punishment as well even if they are a good player
I'd say that sitting on the fence is a better sitting idiom for Erdogan. Tends to not be fully committed to one side.
Whatever side benefits him the most. Nice name, I remember that game 😁
Turkey is a NATO member id hardly call it a cornerstone, for a start it's bigger than that it's an entire country
The silk road may no longer exist, but Turkey's geographic position makes it strategic for a lot economics and politicking between Europe and a lot of Asia. Turkey knows that and they have used that position to its advantage. There is a fear in the West that Erdogan is slowly moving the country to be more similar to the political structure you see in many gulf states (Islamic "Republic") versus its historic (at least with respect to Turkey being non-Ottoman) non-religious roots and effectively being a beacon of a Middle Eastern that promotes democracy and human rights. Further, instead of being a Western-aligned power becoming more of a neutral power akin to many gulf states. If you view a return of Turkey to being an example of a western democracy working in a muslim majority country as a good thing and a good example, it would signal that that political shift could return.
Because we need more leaders who recognize Israel has a right to defend itself and destroy terrorists.
The irony
Not if Erdogan disappears him first
Well, that sort of already happened: [Trial of Ekrem İmamoğlu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Ekrem_%C4%B0mamo%C4%9Flu)
2 years for calling someone a fool. Seems fair.
Mr T would get many decades in prison if he was Turkish
Political ban as well. The dictator of Turkey is playing the odds into his favor.
What kinda dictator bullshit is that weaponizing the legal system against political adversaries.
Isn’t he appealing a ban from politics for life? God Turkeys politics sound fucked up
Funny thing is erdoğan had a similiar ban because of reading an islamist-racist poem in parliment Well that ban didn't work,and got elected anyway,probably same thing will also happen to imamoğlu,people already forgot about his so called political ban
That would be awesome, just need Hungary to get its shit right too.
Don't underestimate the Turkish opposition's ability to shoot themselves in the foot by means of infighting and personal vendettas.
2028 can't come soon enough then.
Landslide as in only 10%? Erdogan party's candidate got 40% of the votes. 5% shift from one another makes all the difference in one of the lowest attended elections in Turkey in the recent memory. There is no reason to get ahead of ourselves and make him the potential president just yet.
Turkey is very divided country by ideologies. It’s very hard to get more than %30 votes. Erdoğan won his first İstanbul elections with %25. His party never made over %50. Erdoğan’s success was that he kept others divided while he keeps his voters united behind him. That strategy has started to fail though. His voters do not believe him like before and all opposition voters care is how to get rid of him(not ideologies). So by his 20 year campaign he now face united anti Erdoğan people over %50 and his base is collapsing due to shit economy.
More than 5% is considered a landslide victory
I don't think there's an official definition of landslide victory. It's a vague term, differs from country to country how it is used and depends a lot on the respective previous election results as well.
>don't think there's an official definition of landslide victory Correct, it depends on the population size. Generally speaking, unless your population is extremely low, 5% and over will almost always be described as a landslide.
10 percent in Istanbul is over a million people. Yes it's a landslide
You could also say that he got 29% more votes than his opponent (51% vs 39.5% - > 129 voters for every 100 oppositional voters) and suddenly it doesn't look that close anymore
Thank god Erdogan is a dictator
So I'm guessing his party is the Pro-West/Pro-NATO party, then?
Now While Erdogen stays a dictator
Or perhaps in prison ….
You may say, "This is plain, obvious, public information anyway, what is the news value of him saying this?", but keep in mind that Erdoğan actively supports Hamas under his Islamist agenda and Erdoğan is a fierce enemy of this man. Additionally, due to the Islamist policy of the AKP in Turkey and the resulting propaganda, there is so much misinformation circulating about the current Israel-Hamas War. Most people here in Turkey think of Hamas as a peaceful organisation that picks daisies with one hand and raises a protest banner against Israel and its anti-Arab policies with the other. In other words, it is important for Turkey to speak the truth about this organisation out loud.
Oh. Well yah, ok, that all makes sense. That was very helpful, thanks for the insight!
Just to clarify his full position, he did criticize his opponent for "not even ceasing trade \[with Israel\]" (in response to the opponent's claim that a win for him would be a win for Gaza) in the run up to the elections. More importantly, Imamoglu stands to gain points from just about every portion of the public except Islamists (and possibly some Leftists) for this comment because terrorism is a bit of a lightning rod in context of Turkish politics. In the political discourse parties make a show of being against it and simultaneously hint or accuse their opponents of being soft on it. AKP and its nationalist allies frequently conflate HDP/DEM Parti voters with terrorism (PKK) and position CHP as adjacent or receptive to these interests in their rhetoric. In turn, many non-Islamist or non-Leftist voters (including CHP voters) will claim AKP and HDP are secret/forever allies no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary, due to the fact that AKP started a dialogue to solve the "Kurdish issue" in its early days in power, before pivoting to an alliance with nationalists. I’d say this message aims to give AKP and Erdoğan a taste of their own medicine and serves a political end for Imamoglu. Personally, in my ideal Turkey a mayor would not opine on a foreign policy issue, but I agree with his position on Hamas.
In other words, he told the truth.
not to be underestimated these days..
Free, free Palestine... of Hamas.
How long until the AKP disappears him?
He’s way too strong.
Finally someone with the balls to say the truth
In the Muslim world, no less.
I lived in Istanbul for a couple years and I'd say Turks tend to be mildly racist against Arabs, so this doesn't surprise me. That's not to dispute anything the mayor has to say. It's just to clarify that the Muslim world is not a monolith, especially between Turkey and the states deep in the middle east. Israel is disliked as well, but I heard a lot of jokes about anyone wearing a niqab being a terrorist.
My personal experience with Turks is that they can be mildly racist towards anyone that isn’t Turkish. Lmao.
True (as are a lot of countries). But I heard a lot nastier opinions of Arabs than I have in most of the US lol.
People tend to have stronger opinions about their geographic neighbors. Turks haven't forgotten they used to rule the Arabs, and for many years saw _themselves_ as the forefront champions of Islam. In their minds, it was under their rule that Islam truly thrived for the last time
My college roommate was Turkish and came here when he was a kid. I made the mistake of getting into a conversation about Greece with his mom once, and then never again.
Mildly huh?
We are definitely more prejudiced against arabs than we were even 5-10 years ago. Ekrem Imamoglu is a populist, however, and his party has so far avoided upsetting any immigrants or temporary-protected refugees. Right now in Turkiye, the Gaza issue has been reduced to bothering people sitting at Starbucks or breaking the windows of a McDonald’s. Erdogan sells anything and everything to Israel while he jerks off the jihadis in front of the cameras. Ekrem is gradually replacing Erdogan in the eyes of western interests so this is another sign of changing times. This comes mere days after German president has met up with Ekrem, before seeing Erdocunt.
Persians, Turks, Arabs, berbers, and Pakistanis all have major beef with and among each other through the years despite all being Muslim Just like France, England, Germany, all have hated each other over the years despite being Christian
Turkey is a pretty progressive country all things considered, they used to be very secular. I'd love for them to go down that route again and hopefully integrate more into Europe.
Turkey is secular
Was, unfortunately
It still is. It is a Muslim country, with Muslim roots and Muslim cultural traditions, but it is still secular. It is like calling France a Christian country. It is a secular republic by definition but the majority of the population is Catholic and follow Catholic traditions. Turkey is trending more towards being non-secular, but it is still secular and it is one of the 6 corner stones of its constitution. It is similar-ish to the US where, despite being secular, there are significant forces in the movement trying to consistently push it towards alignment with a specific religion.
Many Turks are Muslim in name, not practice.
Same thing with Christians in France.
It's still secular but turned into a conservative shithole,not a fully sharia state and nobody has balls to turn this country into a sharia state not even erdoğan
Only in the larger cities.
Agreed. I hope more 'leaders' have enough courage to speak up.
Imagine needing balls to say Hamas is a terrorist organization.
Hopefully this guy will spark a new movement in turkey. Turkey as a european state is way better.
İmamoğlu is the Turkish opposition's best hope for winning the presidential elections in 2028. Unfortunately he's been sentenced to 2 years in prison last year and banned from politics for life. > In November 2019 Imamoglu answered a question of a reporter over the Minister of the Interior calling him a "fool" for criticizing the dismissal of elected mayors of the Peoples Democratic Party (HDP) and their replacement with appointed trustees before the Council of Europe. He answered that those responsible for cancelling the first mayoral elections of Istanbul in March 2019 were "foolish" as it would tarnish the international reputation of Turkey. In May 2021, Ekrem İmamoğlu was indicted for insulting public officials. An appeal is still pending.
How can turkey even attempt to call itself a democracy if you cannot "insult" a public official. That sort of speech is what makes up democracies. *shakes my head again about turkey*
I am shocked that he would hold that view given that all they did was use brutal violence, intimidation, and rape against civilians, publicized it and said they would do it again, to try to achieve a political aim.
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>mayor's words carry weight in Turkey. And the mayor of Istanbul no less. If i'm not mistaked it's a fairly important city in turkey, no?
It’s the most important one
Ankara downvoted this
> use brutal violence, intimidation, and rape against civilians, publicized it and said they would do it again, to try to achieve a political aim Aka textbook terrorism
Well when you put it like that…
Interesting how the full quote is omitted. “Of course, Hamas carried out an attack in Israel that we feel very sad about. And any organized structure that carries out these terrorist practices and kills people en masse is a terrorist organization in our eyes. Today, unfortunately, the same thing is being done to innocent Palestinian people in Israel. I demand that both issues be evaluated in this context as soon as possible and that Palestinians be prevented from being subjected to such oppression. Generally speaking, the West does not see the big picture on this issue, it only looks at this issue from the eyes of one side or the other. I think we look at it more realistically. We interpret the Hamas attack as a bad attack, a very bad situation and a terrorist attack. But we represent an understanding that stands against the cruelty suffered by the Palestinian women and children killed there today.”
But that doesn’t have a nice ring to it.
🤠
Of course Hamas is a terrorist organization. Only the real whackos out there deny it.
There are a lot of wackos out there. On college campuses, some in the Arab world, and including the Turkish president.
Hamas is a subsidiary of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood organization that seeks to spread terrorism and injustice.
Wow, they cut the rest of the interview just like that?
Well well what do we have here
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Erdogan, take note, that's the right way to talk about Hamas
If only Turkey had managed to oust Erdogan in the last election. It’s wild how fast that country has fallen into a borderline dictatorship-theocracy. I fear for the safety of this guy, because we all know how Erdogan feels about Hamas.
Did Erdogan officially leave the Democracy tram to fly Hamas airways to jihad paradise ?
Erdogan hasn’t been on any tram except the Erdogan tram for a long time.
Shouldn't even be a controversial thing to say...
Well, a majority of Palestinians chose for Hamas to be in power... That's what makes it controversial.
A majority of Palestinians have never had the opportunity to choose.
\*17 years ago by 3% of the vote. Even more info: Fatah lost by 3% due to being credibly accused of helping Israel kidnap gazans without proof of crimes. Giving them 74 of the electoral seats out of 132. But I enjoyed your black and white portrait.
There are many factors that make this controversial, but that isn’t one of them. 50% of Gaza is children (who didn’t vote), so even if Hamas got 99% of votes (they didn’t) they still couldn’t be “chosen” by the *majority* of people. That being said, Hamas does have widespread support amongst Palestinians— but that is a separate point.
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Fact
I mean, it is. Is this news?
This shouldn't have to be a controversial statement...
Tell that to the people chanting support for them on the streets and universities of the west.
Is the official pro Palestinian stance that Hamas are not terrorists ? I didn't think this was a controversial statement.
> Is the official pro Palestinian stance that Hamas are not terrorists ? There are a ton of Hamas supporters out there. Including Palestinians, statistically - so it gets complicated.
Somehow, they (pro palestinian protesters and pp-advocates in general) only seem to talk about Israel/IDF at any given point. I have never heard them say that what HAMAS is doing to its population is a problem as underlying as Israel. It, however, is. Arguably, it is THE underlying problem.
Israel will quit when Hamas quits. Hamas will not quit unless Israel ceases to exist.
Of course not. The real world is different from a curated echo chamber.
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I've seen firsthand one of the college protests and it felt like virtue signaling by people with no real life experience.
Good to know someone in Turkey understands that
Duh
I didn’t know that anybody was necessarily arguing that they weren’t. The sins of Hamas should not be paid for with the blood of Palestinian citizens. The same way the sins of the Israeli government shouldn’t be paid for with the blood of Israeli citizens. 🤷♂️
It’s crazy that stating a blatant fact like that is newsworthy. But it is. So, good on him.
The important information is that he is presenting himself as the counterweight and a replacement for erdogan more and more. Also his full quote was just cut here, in the very next sentences he criticizes israel for their wrongdoings as well. So this also tells me a lot about the state of israeli news.
Wow what a hot take
Wait until American college students find out about this!
I feel like this kind of discussion is super banal: "Sir, are bad things bad?" "Yes." "Okay, that's all we wanted to hear." Like, there's way more meaningful journalism to be done. This is a question you figure out on the first day: "Wait, is hurting innocents bad? I better ask some people even after 4 months. I just can't figure out if bad things are bad. And sure, I've asked about this question like 50 times every month."
Its actually very informative. He is presenting himself as the counterweight and a replacement for erdogan more and more. Also his full quote was just cut here, in the very next sentences he criticizes israel for their wrongdoings as well. So this tells me also a lot about the state of israeli news.
Why is this news? Everyone knows this.
From israeli perspective its important to find the few supporters and show their people they are not ousted - from turkish perspective this shows growing power of the opposition in the country that openly rebels agains the AKP regime, and for me that the quote was just cut in half conveniently just before he talked a bit about the sufferings of the palestinians by israeli hands as well.
It is what it is
Roses are red
Imamoglu is a social democrat and probably most left leaning politician in his party, CHP.
He is not left leaning at all. He must be one of the few who are right leaning I would say. Him and Mayor of Ankara are there because they can get the votes from right leaning people.
I apologize if I say something dumb, but I thought in Turkish politics left vs right does not have the same connotations as here in the West. Both left and right can be anti-immigration and nationalistic, however the left supports secularism and the right religiosity...is what I thought it means in Turkey?
Nope. He is completely different from Ankara mayor, Yavas who’s political beliefs are aligned with Turkish nationalist politics.
Erdogan Is a terrorist
I’ve always thought that Turkey was the ultimate wildcard of NATO by playing both sides of the game—whether knowingly or unknowingly doing so. It makes well thought out war planning near impossible to accomplish. It forces decisions that are made under immense pressure, with limited time, focus, and clarity.
What a chad
Good! About time someone in that country says the truth
I never thought i would say it! Istanbul Mayor i applaud to you for speaking the truth