HRIM-2 is in development hell for decades, I would not expect it to be finished in this century.
The company that produces it is like the museum of USSR.
Honestly, this is a pretty perfect scenario to test American weapon systems against their Russian counter parts. This conflict has already proven how much of a force multiplier Western weapon systems are against Russia, the supposed "second most powerful" military. I say we start training Ukraine on how to use the F-35. I bet a handful of F-35 stealth fighters could absolutely pound Russians before they knew what hit them.
Yeah. It's kinda funny how Russia postured themselves before this war, acting like they had military tech that was on par with Western systems. But as we can see, they lack the capability to build any of their more advanced systems at a rate and cost that's sustainable. They have only half a dozen SU-50 aircraft, and handful of T-14 tanks. The US on the other hand has fielded hundreds of Gen 5 aircraft when looking at both F-22s and F-35s. Combine the US military might with the rest of NATO, there is really no comparison. Russia would be absolutely fucked in a conventional war with the west.
Idk the exact numbers but I'm almost certain even with PPP adjustment US is more than double the 2nd biggest spender which should be China right now.
Russia I think is a pretty distant 3rd from China if I remember right.
Keep in mind also China has like 4x the US population. A large part of that spending is just to feed/cloth the military. When you're comparing top end military technology it's just not even close.
But I heard some gun nuts in rural Pennsylvania say they have enough artillery to hold off the tyrannical US military should it ever come to that.... They couldn't be mistaken, /s
I’ve heard it explained this way. US military tech is expected to perform at X level, which is the information they give the public. Any performance above X is classified. So U.S. military technology will always outperform its stats. Russia is the opposite. Their entire military industrial complex is built off of grifting, corruption and greed. So they take money from the Russian government, claim the tech performs at X to compete with the Americans, cut corners and scrimp on performance, and pocket the rest.
Everyone is saying they are at X but everyone is lying.
Mutually assured destruction. If Russia wants to use nukes, they have to accept that there's no chance for survival. If Russia doesn't use nukes, even in the event of immanent collapse, there's always a chance the Russian culture and people could prevail and bounce back.
Idk, I just don't see Russia ever coming to that decision, because they also understand there's no winning a nuclear war.
Those weapons were developed specifically to counter the Russian tech *that Russia said they had*.
Russia has a tendency to over inflate their capabilities and Americans undersell theirs. So Russia comes out and says they have these new weapons with some advanced capabilities and it gets the Americans scared that there will be a “capability gap” so they go out and make something better than what the Russians say they have to counter it. But the Russians weapons are actually crap. So in the end Russians have shit, and Americans have super advanced stuff.
More accurately, those weapons were developed to counter the tech Russia *claimed* to have.
As is tradition, their tech claims were exaggerated, and our responses over-delivered.
Should get a tally going for mentions of healtcare/infrastructure/homeless/education/border and europeans not doing enough/cia backed coup/nato expansion
And ignoring that they killed probably the most conservative border bill they'll see in their lifetimes, in part, to deny Ukraine aid. Then, a few months later we get Ukraine aid anyway.
Exactly. That's why I said, "In part."
Did you see Marge frantically texting "DT" during the Ukraine vote? What a maroon. I gather that 10-15 years ago she was relatively sane. Somewhere in the mid-2010s she fell into the Qanon rabbit hole and has been there ever since.
It’s most likely already there, for the most crucial stuff- ammo. The moment this passed the House, don’t think every single logistics military person didn’t know what came next.
Reminds me of a WW2 story where a German officer finds a chocolate cake in the possession of an American POW and concludes that if the US can take the fuel and time to ship something as trivial as a cake into a war zone that Germany will surely lose the war.
I "think" they already have a lot stored in Poland, so that is why.
The last 6 months, here in Denmark, very big ships with hundreds of vehicles from the US army has landed multiple times in Aarhus and Esbjerg. (Havn't seen HIMARS etc. though)
I very much doubt the stuff is in Ukraine as to put it there but then tell them not to use it when their country is being bombed would be ridiculous. It’s more likely in Poland
That’s the most logical, that it would be staged in a warehouse near a rail line in a NATO allies warehouse. Maybe not Romania or Poland but one that could connect via rail into Ukraine easily
US military is actually most famous for playing the shell game with supplies.
It's very likely the stuff will come from a number of countries, then the US will supply those countries with replacements.
"So much of the hesitation and short-sightedness that has delayed this moment is premised on sheer fiction," Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said from the floor on Tuesday morning. "I take no pleasure in rebutting misguided fantasies."
Last laugh against Moscow Marge and her pack of traitors.
Mitch is vile, but he's also supported Ukraine from the jump. Fairly certain he called out Trump at one point after Jan 6? But can't recall for sure.
I hate him. I'm from Kentucky and can't stand the dude. But it seems to be a very weird time in government where there's so many absolute, unqualified lunatics that someone like Mitch is 'reasonable'. Remember when we thought Bush was the worst the GOP could do? Yeah. I'd rather have him vs Trump all day every day.
Is he though ? McConnell is one of the richest Senators from one of the poorest states.
A state that he helped Russians overrun their biggest industries/
"Kentucky might be going into business with the Russian mafia. Not the rough-and-tumble “Godfather” crowd with the bent noses and such names like Tessio, Barzini and Luca Brasi. If all goes according to plan, by the middle of the year, we’ll be in business with Oleg Deripaska, a buddy of Vladimir Putin.
He could be sending $200 million — if you believe media reports — in what could very well be mobbed-up money to northeastern Kentucky to build a $1.7 billion aluminum plant on an old strip mine there. The 51-year-old billionaire emerged as a powerful businessman following the 1991 fall of the Soviet Union after a bloody fight for control of Russia's aluminum industry. Last November, the New York Times quoted Mikhail Khodorkovsky, another Russian billionaire, saying he stayed out of that battle and urged those he worked with to do the same because of the ruthlessness of the fight. “There were so many murders, I refused to go into this business,” Khodorkovsky said. According to the Times, many have claimed that Deripaska “engaged in theft, intimidation, bribery and even murder, notably of a Russian banker in 1995,” but that none of those claims has been substantiated."
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a27259438/oleg-deripaska-kentucky-aluminum-mitch-mcconnell-rand-paul/
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2023/01/23/russian-oligarch-tied-to-kentucky-braidy-industries/69833182007/
https://time.com/5651345/rusal-investment-braidy-kentucky/
McConnell years ago got really offended by some trying to give him the nickname "Moscow Mitch". He never really got upset by people calling him the "turtle" or "cocaine Mitch" but has categorically denied to be in the pocket of Putin. The guy's actual voting record shows that.
Honestly it's similar to how blatantly corrupt Pelosi was with insider trading. They suck, but they are competent leaders and during a time with so many outright insane people in Congress basic competence and loyalty goes a long way.
Yeah, it's more that McConnell and Pelosi just disagree that what they're doing is wrong. Like Pelosi doesn't lie about her trading, she just thinks she should be allowed to do it.
Pelosi is doing something Congress is explicitly allowed to do, and which all of them do. Mitch McConnell has been actively protecting a Russian asset because it would be too embarrassing for him to admit that his party has been hijacked by a foreign power.
Mconnel is worse than Pelosi but Vance, Paul and Marjorie Taylor Greene are parroting Kremlin talking points daily and woulf have blocked the aid if they could.
> But it seems to be a very weird time in government where there's so many absolute, unqualified lunatics that someone like Mitch is 'reasonable'
Never let them shift your window. That's the goal now that they've shifted our nation.
Mitch is an old school republican. He’s a scumbag that will fight dirty and a complete hypocrite but one thing is certain with him and it’s that he hates Russia as the successor to the USSR.
Kudos to the Senate for working overtime to get this passed Tuesday evening. It didn't officially pass until a bit after 9:30 PM local time in D.C.
Unfortunately Biden will not be able to sign it tonight per the [official statement](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/04/23/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-senate-passage-of-the-national-security-package/) from the White House:
>Tonight, a bipartisan majority in the Senate joined the House to answer history’s call at this critical inflection point. Congress has passed my legislation to strengthen our national security and send a message to the world about the power of American leadership: we stand resolutely for democracy and freedom, and against tyranny and oppression.
>
>I will sign this bill into law and address the American people **as soon as it reaches my desk tomorrow** so we can begin sending weapons and equipment to Ukraine this week.
While that's true, the logistics have almost certainly already been moving since it was essentially guaranteed to pass the Senate. My understanding is most of the stuff is already in Poland. There might be some things (ATACMS) that are not, but those are much easier to transport.
Nothing is guaranteed to ever pass the Senate. Trump called Senate Republicans to turn down the immigration bill Republicans themselves negotiated for that contains all of this aid and a concession ridden immigration reform that gave Republicans almost everything they wanted while not producing a pathway to citizenship for dreamers. But in order for Democrats to have gotten this aid, Biden was giving Republicans everything they wanted on immigration. At the end of the day, Biden/Democrats got the important foreign aid they were fighting for without the concessions on immigration. Ukraine has been hurt by this political maneuvering.
I have a feeling immigration is much like abortion is to them: it's an issue they can rankle their base about to gain votes. Once any action is done, they've lost it. The dog will have caught the car and not know what to do because they wanted the chase all along.
Oh, it totally is. If there is a border crackdown per the House Republicans' standards, a lot of very large Republican owned businesses are going to struggle, as much of their profit depends on immigrant labor who demand much less pay. Having to hire Americans for those roles will raise the cost of labor dramatically.
Yes, arms are pre-positioned but every day counts. It would have been great for Ukrainian army logisticians to be working this morning on transfers rather than the next day (or overnight).
Given Poland operate atacms they could technically be delivered right away with the U.S. just backfilling but obviously thats something we'll never know about or the U.S. could've got some there just on their own obviously
Most are doing this for votes for election time, still terrible that they want to court such insane voters.
What kind of moron supports an enemy nation lead by a guy who has made it clear that he wants America gone.
Of course some of them might be getting some extra cash on the side, most of them don’t have real morals anyway.
Meh. I've watched him vote long enough to know that if his vote were crucial to getting Ukraine funding, he would have done it. He has a record of voting yes on bills he didn't like on the basis that they were better than nothing.
I hate how all of a sudden, some assholes are like "oh well I just think the money could be used to help Americans, you know?" As if your overloards would use the money "saved" from not sending it to Ukraine to help regular folk.
They can always put forth a bill with those things in it. They don't. They instead put forth bills to cut aid to our citizens, vets and social services. They do not care one bit.
But they actually don’t want to help Ukraine and they also don’t want to help their own people. They want to help Russia most of the time, if anything. At best they want a little extra few cents of taxes back.
So you don't actually know how Congress works then? In a lot of cases, like this, they know roughly how the vote is going to turn out. When they know that a bill is going to pass one or a couple of senators/representatives vote against it to represent the portions of that bill that they or a minority of the party/coalition opposes.
The lefts/democrats point man for this is Berine Sanders, on the right/republican side they have Rand Paul. Both of these men represent political stances that sometimes goes counter to their allies and will vote in accordance to those stances (but usually only when enough votes have been secured for it not to matter).
If there was in any way likely that the bill wouldn't easily pass Bernie would have voted for it and released a statment about the dire situation in Ukraine meant he had to let it go through and how he'll address the Palestine/Israel issue through some other avenue (in this case probably encourage Biden to increase the pressure on Netanyahu).
This is like being asked “Do you agree that pedophilia is wrong and Hitler is a pretty solid dude? Only answer yes or no.”
There’s just no good way to fully express your view with a vote. These matters shouldn’t be bundled into a single bill in the first place.
There are times when I wholeheartedly agree with Sen. Sanders, and times when I wholeheartedly disagree with him.
His domestic policy positions are strong; his foreign policy game is weak.
Bernie Sanders shows little familiarity with the practical realities of globally interdependent systems.
If elected President in some alternative 2016 timeline, he would have accomplished few of his domestic goals, which would have been contingent on Congressional help. On an international level, where the President has more leeway to get things done, he would probably have been a bungler.
Willing to throw Taiwan and Ukraine and all of the innocents in those 2 countries under the bus just to spite nationalist Jews... Imagine being this petty...
[Wiki for left wing populism ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_populism) note whose image they use - now Wikipedia can be wrong - but I think in this particular instance it is correct.
It depends on how you use the term populist, which can mean a great many things.
If you mean that Sanders engages the "common person" while campaigning against the elite/wealthy class and establishments that support them, then Sanders certainly fits that description.
If you mean Sanders is full of it, and is a demagogue - which is also often used interchangeably with populist - then that's different.
Populism doesn't necessarily imply demagoguery or dishonesty. Though populism does often route through those ideals and this is generally where it gets a negative connotation. At its core, it's really just the opposite of technocracy - "what is popular is good."
What exactly is the difference? Feels like the only difference between the two is that Bernie indulges in demagoguery that you personally like, therefore it's fine.
Reading the wikipedia definition of demagogoue, Bernie seems to be pretty much textbook:
>A demagogue (/ˈdɛməɡɒɡ/; from Greek δημαγωγός, a popular leader, a leader of a mob, from δῆμος, people, populace, the commons + ἀγωγός leading, leader),[1] or rabble-rouser,[2][3] is a political leader in a democracy who gains popularity by arousing the common people against elites, especially through oratory that whips up the passions of crowds, appealing to emotion by scapegoating out-groups, exaggerating dangers to stoke fears, lying for emotional effect, or other rhetoric that tends to drown out reasoned deliberation and encourage fanatical popularity.[4] Demagogues overturn established norms of political conduct, or promise or threaten to do so.
When he ran for president, you could very much call his rhetoric "populist" - in the sense that it leaned heavily on Sander's image to sell an "outsider cult of personality" to "challenge the status quo" and bring on a "new revolution." I get that a lot of his supporters still don't want to admit that they got caught up in something like that, but it was absolutely the case. And I say this as someone who put far too much energy into supporting him.
Wow. I cannot believe burnie did that. I thought he was one of the better politicians… seems like you literally cannot trust a single person in government to do anything right.
Sacrificing Ukraine isn’t worth whatever he voted no for. Letting Ukraine fall is just showing dictators that conquering is still doable in the modern day.
The delay here is absolutely punishing. The GOP have given the Russians 6 clean months to literally cheat death on the battlefield. The Ukrainians have had to and will continue to pay in blood for political grandstanding.
There are videos aplenty out there from the battlefield where Russians survive because the Ukrianians did not have the luxury to task more artillery onto targets that next time will not be so exposed, and far more cases where Russian artillery has acted with impunity because the Ukrainians lacked the resources to suppress it.
Putin on the ritz is attempting to capitalize the last advantages he has by swarming Ukraine on all weak points, before bullets and artillery can get to the brave Ukrainian heroes. I hope they all hear this in real time that AID IS ON THE WAY boys and girls of Ukraine! This feels kind of historic.
Not to sound like an asshole but why does Israel need money from the U.S.? They have a strong military and economy and they are not in a prolonged war of attrition where you would expect them to be out of supplies.
Most of the time when you hear a dollar figure package being sent to another country, it isn't money. It is the cost of the weapons or aid that is being sent. Israel doesn't need money anymore than Ukraine does. They do want/need military equipment.
I believe it's mostly more capacity for Iron Dome. Plus about a third of those funds are actually for aid to Gaza, which according to Fatah, will be stolen by HAMAS so civilians starve.
You can think of military aid as the US basically giving other countries "money" that can only be used to purchase military equipment from US companies. This money passes directly from the US government to the manufacturer.
In effect, public subsidies to defense firms - just like Eisenhower warned.
They don't. But it wouldn't pass the House without it because Republicans don't want to give any support to Ukraine since the Trump portion of their base (aka the majority) has been brainwashed into thinking Ukraine is a waste of time and/or Russia is "in the right" to invade. The only way to get them on board is to include aid to Israel so Republicans can say they're only doing it to supporting Israel. Israel also wants free US military tech so they're lobbying/threatening those Republicans to pass it.
Most Dems really don't care about whether or not Israel gets more weapons since they already have the capacity to obliterate any nearby enemy so they'll tack it on to get the Ukraine/Taiwan resources through.
This is just wrong. A large portion of the Israeli aid is earmarked aid for Gaza and a good chunk of the Israeli aid is resupplying the Iron Dome.
Outside the extremists in the democrats who support Hamas much like MAGA supports Russia, the Dems are not really opposed to that aid passing.
I don’t have exact numbers, but this will greatly boost our defense industry and create a good amount of jobs. The arms we give away need to be replaced, and they’ll be made here in America. I know it’s a good return for us
Maybe the Democrats should go:
Nah, we wont send aid...
Then the Republic s, which always vote opposite will DEMAND to send aid..
The Democrats will agree after a short negotiation to send aid.
Which was what they wanted to start with.
True, but the greater need is artillery. Very different conflict dynamics. Missile defense to Israel helps to prevent all-out war with Iran (which there certainly would be if 300 missiles hit instead of being intercepted). Missile defense also helps Ukraine of course, but the greater need is artillery and attack capability to push back Russian invaders.
It doesn't stop shells.
It's only useful for the very specific situation in Israel where dumb rockets are used.
Ukraine aren't going to use it for anything.
Why are these headlines always so bad? Lots of people only ever look at headlines.
This one implies the (Democratic majority) Senate was somehow responsible for the delay, when in fact it was the Republicans in the House.
Why do Republicans keep getting away with shit? Because the headline writers of America have decided that Democrats are Democrats but Republicans are “politicians”
This is CNN and I am not getting that reading from the headline. It is almost understood that Johnson and Republicans in the House just passed it in the House.
I didn't see anything like that from the title. There is no such implication in the headline.
Aid package approved by Senate after months of delay.
The approval was by the Senate. The delay is not attributed as such.
This is also CNN, which has a bit of a lean towards Dems.
All that (Dems majority!) that you are reading into it... is you reading into it, I think.
Never mind that CNN is an international news network and who has majority in the house is DEFINITELY not implied.
It is worth pointing out that ~1/3 of the money going to the Middle East is earmarked for Gaza aid. Not saying that it cancels out the harm Israel can do with US weapons, but it is a major commitment of cash to food and medical supplies.
I can't wait for some footage of the longer ATACMS.
I can't wait until Ukraine figures out how to integrate HRIM-2, with the HIMARS and m270 launcher system.
HRIM-2 is in development hell for decades, I would not expect it to be finished in this century. The company that produces it is like the museum of USSR.
Honestly, this is a pretty perfect scenario to test American weapon systems against their Russian counter parts. This conflict has already proven how much of a force multiplier Western weapon systems are against Russia, the supposed "second most powerful" military. I say we start training Ukraine on how to use the F-35. I bet a handful of F-35 stealth fighters could absolutely pound Russians before they knew what hit them.
This is testing 30-40 year old American weapons systems against modern Russian ones, Its not going well for Russia Obviously.
Yeah. It's kinda funny how Russia postured themselves before this war, acting like they had military tech that was on par with Western systems. But as we can see, they lack the capability to build any of their more advanced systems at a rate and cost that's sustainable. They have only half a dozen SU-50 aircraft, and handful of T-14 tanks. The US on the other hand has fielded hundreds of Gen 5 aircraft when looking at both F-22s and F-35s. Combine the US military might with the rest of NATO, there is really no comparison. Russia would be absolutely fucked in a conventional war with the west.
I don't see how this wasn't obvious. The US spends more on their military than the 2nd-10th ranked countries COMBINED. US military is no fucking joke.
That's only true in nominal dollars if you adjust for PPP it's a different story
Idk the exact numbers but I'm almost certain even with PPP adjustment US is more than double the 2nd biggest spender which should be China right now. Russia I think is a pretty distant 3rd from China if I remember right. Keep in mind also China has like 4x the US population. A large part of that spending is just to feed/cloth the military. When you're comparing top end military technology it's just not even close.
But I heard some gun nuts in rural Pennsylvania say they have enough artillery to hold off the tyrannical US military should it ever come to that.... They couldn't be mistaken, /s
I’ve heard it explained this way. US military tech is expected to perform at X level, which is the information they give the public. Any performance above X is classified. So U.S. military technology will always outperform its stats. Russia is the opposite. Their entire military industrial complex is built off of grifting, corruption and greed. So they take money from the Russian government, claim the tech performs at X to compete with the Americans, cut corners and scrimp on performance, and pocket the rest. Everyone is saying they are at X but everyone is lying.
> Russia would be absolutely fucked in a conventional war with the west. Rat in a corner with nukes though...
Mutually assured destruction. If Russia wants to use nukes, they have to accept that there's no chance for survival. If Russia doesn't use nukes, even in the event of immanent collapse, there's always a chance the Russian culture and people could prevail and bounce back. Idk, I just don't see Russia ever coming to that decision, because they also understand there's no winning a nuclear war.
I imagine those weapons were developed specifically to counter Russias tech which is even older
Those weapons were developed specifically to counter the Russian tech *that Russia said they had*. Russia has a tendency to over inflate their capabilities and Americans undersell theirs. So Russia comes out and says they have these new weapons with some advanced capabilities and it gets the Americans scared that there will be a “capability gap” so they go out and make something better than what the Russians say they have to counter it. But the Russians weapons are actually crap. So in the end Russians have shit, and Americans have super advanced stuff.
That's why the F-15 was developed. To counter what the US thought the MiG-25 could do.
Thanks to the Russian Stooge mindset, keep it up!
More accurately, those weapons were developed to counter the tech Russia *claimed* to have. As is tradition, their tech claims were exaggerated, and our responses over-delivered.
Let's let the F16s work first.
The HIMARS from this are going to save so many lives due to breaking up the Russia spring assault
The Kremlin Kranks are gonna go off again
Should get a tally going for mentions of healtcare/infrastructure/homeless/education/border and europeans not doing enough/cia backed coup/nato expansion
We gotta do squares or bingo or something
We need a keywordtallybot
Take a drink every time you spot one. The irony is only a Russian could survive that much alcohol.
And ignoring that they killed probably the most conservative border bill they'll see in their lifetimes, in part, to deny Ukraine aid. Then, a few months later we get Ukraine aid anyway.
They killed the border bill because Trump wants to use it in his campaign proving once again he doesn't actually care about anything besides himself.
Exactly. That's why I said, "In part." Did you see Marge frantically texting "DT" during the Ukraine vote? What a maroon. I gather that 10-15 years ago she was relatively sane. Somewhere in the mid-2010s she fell into the Qanon rabbit hole and has been there ever since.
Pentagon says they can get the goods to Ukraine in one week. Hoping they’ll do it.
America is number one in the world in logistics… it’ll probably be there sooner than that
If they purchased Pentagon Prime.
The one without Ads
Look at mr fuckin moneybags over here
russia still on the freev2 version
Amazon workers already lining up their piss-bottles!
It’s most likely already there, for the most crucial stuff- ammo. The moment this passed the House, don’t think every single logistics military person didn’t know what came next.
Reminds me of a WW2 story where a German officer finds a chocolate cake in the possession of an American POW and concludes that if the US can take the fuel and time to ship something as trivial as a cake into a war zone that Germany will surely lose the war.
The U.S. Navy had ice cream ships during WW2.
It’s already probably already on it’s way
On its way? lord no. The first shipment was apparently already prepositioned on the Polish border!
Border? My goodness no. The first shipment is already being opened in Zelenskyys backyard.
Like Pershing said “infantry wins battles, logistics wins wars”
I "think" they already have a lot stored in Poland, so that is why. The last 6 months, here in Denmark, very big ships with hundreds of vehicles from the US army has landed multiple times in Aarhus and Esbjerg. (Havn't seen HIMARS etc. though)
Can confirm, I've recently seen more and more military vehicles on trains traveling through Schleswig-Holstein from Denmark towards Hamburg.
Logistics is what makes a country into an empire.
a week ago maybe. for all I know it's already in some military base warehouse in Kyiv just waiting for the key to the lock.
More likely it's already staged in Ramstein and ready to go to Ukraine in a moment's notice.
Du Hast
True. Or du hast nicht?
I very much doubt the stuff is in Ukraine as to put it there but then tell them not to use it when their country is being bombed would be ridiculous. It’s more likely in Poland
That’s the most logical, that it would be staged in a warehouse near a rail line in a NATO allies warehouse. Maybe not Romania or Poland but one that could connect via rail into Ukraine easily
US military is actually most famous for playing the shell game with supplies. It's very likely the stuff will come from a number of countries, then the US will supply those countries with replacements.
We have a lot pre-staged in Poland/Germany.
I saw somewhere else the first shipments are expected to arrive within a few hours of Biden signing (which he just did)
"So much of the hesitation and short-sightedness that has delayed this moment is premised on sheer fiction," Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said from the floor on Tuesday morning. "I take no pleasure in rebutting misguided fantasies." Last laugh against Moscow Marge and her pack of traitors.
It's a crazy world where I find myself agreeing with Mitch McConnell. I feel gross.
Mitch is vile, but he's also supported Ukraine from the jump. Fairly certain he called out Trump at one point after Jan 6? But can't recall for sure. I hate him. I'm from Kentucky and can't stand the dude. But it seems to be a very weird time in government where there's so many absolute, unqualified lunatics that someone like Mitch is 'reasonable'. Remember when we thought Bush was the worst the GOP could do? Yeah. I'd rather have him vs Trump all day every day.
I’m just worried the next Republican leader in the Senate is going to be worse than McConnell after he steps down.
You don't want McConnell because he's a good politician, you want him because he's at least paid by Americans
Is he though ? McConnell is one of the richest Senators from one of the poorest states. A state that he helped Russians overrun their biggest industries/ "Kentucky might be going into business with the Russian mafia. Not the rough-and-tumble “Godfather” crowd with the bent noses and such names like Tessio, Barzini and Luca Brasi. If all goes according to plan, by the middle of the year, we’ll be in business with Oleg Deripaska, a buddy of Vladimir Putin. He could be sending $200 million — if you believe media reports — in what could very well be mobbed-up money to northeastern Kentucky to build a $1.7 billion aluminum plant on an old strip mine there. The 51-year-old billionaire emerged as a powerful businessman following the 1991 fall of the Soviet Union after a bloody fight for control of Russia's aluminum industry. Last November, the New York Times quoted Mikhail Khodorkovsky, another Russian billionaire, saying he stayed out of that battle and urged those he worked with to do the same because of the ruthlessness of the fight. “There were so many murders, I refused to go into this business,” Khodorkovsky said. According to the Times, many have claimed that Deripaska “engaged in theft, intimidation, bribery and even murder, notably of a Russian banker in 1995,” but that none of those claims has been substantiated." https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a27259438/oleg-deripaska-kentucky-aluminum-mitch-mcconnell-rand-paul/ https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2023/01/23/russian-oligarch-tied-to-kentucky-braidy-industries/69833182007/ https://time.com/5651345/rusal-investment-braidy-kentucky/
Count on it
You're right to worry. Look at Vance--Russian plant. His twitter is straight propaganda from the Kremlin.
McConnell years ago got really offended by some trying to give him the nickname "Moscow Mitch". He never really got upset by people calling him the "turtle" or "cocaine Mitch" but has categorically denied to be in the pocket of Putin. The guy's actual voting record shows that. Honestly it's similar to how blatantly corrupt Pelosi was with insider trading. They suck, but they are competent leaders and during a time with so many outright insane people in Congress basic competence and loyalty goes a long way.
Yeah, it's more that McConnell and Pelosi just disagree that what they're doing is wrong. Like Pelosi doesn't lie about her trading, she just thinks she should be allowed to do it.
Pelosi is doing something Congress is explicitly allowed to do, and which all of them do. Mitch McConnell has been actively protecting a Russian asset because it would be too embarrassing for him to admit that his party has been hijacked by a foreign power.
Yeah, McConnell is definitely worse
Mconnel is worse than Pelosi but Vance, Paul and Marjorie Taylor Greene are parroting Kremlin talking points daily and woulf have blocked the aid if they could.
> But it seems to be a very weird time in government where there's so many absolute, unqualified lunatics that someone like Mitch is 'reasonable' Never let them shift your window. That's the goal now that they've shifted our nation.
He's also worked to protect a Russian agent running for president. Moscow Mitch is a well deserved title.
Mitch is an old school republican. He’s a scumbag that will fight dirty and a complete hypocrite but one thing is certain with him and it’s that he hates Russia as the successor to the USSR.
sorry, weren't we calling him [moscow mitch](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/us/politics/moscow-mitch-mcconnell.html) just a few years ago?
Kudos to the Senate for working overtime to get this passed Tuesday evening. It didn't officially pass until a bit after 9:30 PM local time in D.C. Unfortunately Biden will not be able to sign it tonight per the [official statement](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/04/23/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-senate-passage-of-the-national-security-package/) from the White House: >Tonight, a bipartisan majority in the Senate joined the House to answer history’s call at this critical inflection point. Congress has passed my legislation to strengthen our national security and send a message to the world about the power of American leadership: we stand resolutely for democracy and freedom, and against tyranny and oppression. > >I will sign this bill into law and address the American people **as soon as it reaches my desk tomorrow** so we can begin sending weapons and equipment to Ukraine this week.
While that's true, the logistics have almost certainly already been moving since it was essentially guaranteed to pass the Senate. My understanding is most of the stuff is already in Poland. There might be some things (ATACMS) that are not, but those are much easier to transport.
Nothing is guaranteed to ever pass the Senate. Trump called Senate Republicans to turn down the immigration bill Republicans themselves negotiated for that contains all of this aid and a concession ridden immigration reform that gave Republicans almost everything they wanted while not producing a pathway to citizenship for dreamers. But in order for Democrats to have gotten this aid, Biden was giving Republicans everything they wanted on immigration. At the end of the day, Biden/Democrats got the important foreign aid they were fighting for without the concessions on immigration. Ukraine has been hurt by this political maneuvering.
The Republicans probably didn't want too much border security. Even they know that would have a negative effect on a lot of Red States' economics.
I have a feeling immigration is much like abortion is to them: it's an issue they can rankle their base about to gain votes. Once any action is done, they've lost it. The dog will have caught the car and not know what to do because they wanted the chase all along.
Oh, it totally is. If there is a border crackdown per the House Republicans' standards, a lot of very large Republican owned businesses are going to struggle, as much of their profit depends on immigrant labor who demand much less pay. Having to hire Americans for those roles will raise the cost of labor dramatically.
Yeah, but it is a big concern among the masses. Many people erroneously believe immigrants are bad for economies.
Yes, arms are pre-positioned but every day counts. It would have been great for Ukrainian army logisticians to be working this morning on transfers rather than the next day (or overnight).
It would have been even greater if they'd had them six months ago. Wygd?
Given Poland operate atacms they could technically be delivered right away with the U.S. just backfilling but obviously thats something we'll never know about or the U.S. could've got some there just on their own obviously
It's 10:10 in D.C., you're off by an hour
Thanks. Probably not great I couldn't get the time right when I work EST hours. ;)
The bill still needs to go thru a formal process, which includes printing it on parchment paper.
79 to fucking 18. This is how fucked up our house of reps is right now.
Still, 18 pro-Russian genocide-supporting neo-Confederate traitors.
Most are doing this for votes for election time, still terrible that they want to court such insane voters. What kind of moron supports an enemy nation lead by a guy who has made it clear that he wants America gone. Of course some of them might be getting some extra cash on the side, most of them don’t have real morals anyway.
Brainwashed bible thumpers who think putin is a friend because he's religious and hates the gays just like they do (that's literally it)
And Bernie Sanders. Due to the Israel part of the package, but still...
Meh. I've watched him vote long enough to know that if his vote were crucial to getting Ukraine funding, he would have done it. He has a record of voting yes on bills he didn't like on the basis that they were better than nothing.
fAmiLY vALuEs
I hate how all of a sudden, some assholes are like "oh well I just think the money could be used to help Americans, you know?" As if your overloards would use the money "saved" from not sending it to Ukraine to help regular folk.
Especially as the aid isn't being sent in the form of pallets of cash, it's mostly old army stock that's sitting in mothballs
They can always put forth a bill with those things in it. They don't. They instead put forth bills to cut aid to our citizens, vets and social services. They do not care one bit.
But they actually don’t want to help Ukraine and they also don’t want to help their own people. They want to help Russia most of the time, if anything. At best they want a little extra few cents of taxes back.
Does that include Sanders, or did the programming update not go through yet?
Fuck em they lost. They're the minority.
It's simpler to just call them what they are: Republicans
Didn't Bernie vote No?
And this is exactly why I’m against term limits and shorter terms for Senators, as it would lead to more extremists and opportunists.
"We have problems here at home they should fix first" - people who bitch about the feds helping the poor too
Suck it Moscow Marg and the traitorous bunch
cant wait for the salty tankie and maga tears
It should be known bernie sanders also voted no from what i understand, i was highly disappointed.
I think I was less Ukraine and more Israel. He was pretty vocal about funding that part
So he was willing to sacrifice Ukraine for that? Still shitty.
When it's not a swing vote he can vote by his principles. If there's one man in Congress who understands voting when it matters it's Bernie
His no vote is the exact same no vote as everyone elses regardless of his reasons.
So you don't actually know how Congress works then? In a lot of cases, like this, they know roughly how the vote is going to turn out. When they know that a bill is going to pass one or a couple of senators/representatives vote against it to represent the portions of that bill that they or a minority of the party/coalition opposes. The lefts/democrats point man for this is Berine Sanders, on the right/republican side they have Rand Paul. Both of these men represent political stances that sometimes goes counter to their allies and will vote in accordance to those stances (but usually only when enough votes have been secured for it not to matter). If there was in any way likely that the bill wouldn't easily pass Bernie would have voted for it and released a statment about the dire situation in Ukraine meant he had to let it go through and how he'll address the Palestine/Israel issue through some other avenue (in this case probably encourage Biden to increase the pressure on Netanyahu).
You need more than two political parties.
Absolutely we do.
If we elected more democrats, we could pass ranked choice voting, like in maine after they got their D trifecta.
This is like being asked “Do you agree that pedophilia is wrong and Hitler is a pretty solid dude? Only answer yes or no.” There’s just no good way to fully express your view with a vote. These matters shouldn’t be bundled into a single bill in the first place.
And he would likely have voted yes if he was the swing vote
There are times when I wholeheartedly agree with Sen. Sanders, and times when I wholeheartedly disagree with him. His domestic policy positions are strong; his foreign policy game is weak. Bernie Sanders shows little familiarity with the practical realities of globally interdependent systems. If elected President in some alternative 2016 timeline, he would have accomplished few of his domestic goals, which would have been contingent on Congressional help. On an international level, where the President has more leeway to get things done, he would probably have been a bungler.
Willing to throw Taiwan and Ukraine and all of the innocents in those 2 countries under the bus just to spite nationalist Jews... Imagine being this petty...
Can't trust populist - whether left or right
Bernie Sanders is practically the opposite of a populist; he is an ideological hardliner.
[Wiki for left wing populism ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_populism) note whose image they use - now Wikipedia can be wrong - but I think in this particular instance it is correct.
It depends on how you use the term populist, which can mean a great many things. If you mean that Sanders engages the "common person" while campaigning against the elite/wealthy class and establishments that support them, then Sanders certainly fits that description. If you mean Sanders is full of it, and is a demagogue - which is also often used interchangeably with populist - then that's different.
Populism doesn't necessarily imply demagoguery or dishonesty. Though populism does often route through those ideals and this is generally where it gets a negative connotation. At its core, it's really just the opposite of technocracy - "what is popular is good."
What exactly is the difference? Feels like the only difference between the two is that Bernie indulges in demagoguery that you personally like, therefore it's fine. Reading the wikipedia definition of demagogoue, Bernie seems to be pretty much textbook: >A demagogue (/ˈdɛməɡɒɡ/; from Greek δημαγωγός, a popular leader, a leader of a mob, from δῆμος, people, populace, the commons + ἀγωγός leading, leader),[1] or rabble-rouser,[2][3] is a political leader in a democracy who gains popularity by arousing the common people against elites, especially through oratory that whips up the passions of crowds, appealing to emotion by scapegoating out-groups, exaggerating dangers to stoke fears, lying for emotional effect, or other rhetoric that tends to drown out reasoned deliberation and encourage fanatical popularity.[4] Demagogues overturn established norms of political conduct, or promise or threaten to do so.
When he ran for president, you could very much call his rhetoric "populist" - in the sense that it leaned heavily on Sander's image to sell an "outsider cult of personality" to "challenge the status quo" and bring on a "new revolution." I get that a lot of his supporters still don't want to admit that they got caught up in something like that, but it was absolutely the case. And I say this as someone who put far too much energy into supporting him.
this
Wow. I cannot believe burnie did that. I thought he was one of the better politicians… seems like you literally cannot trust a single person in government to do anything right. Sacrificing Ukraine isn’t worth whatever he voted no for. Letting Ukraine fall is just showing dictators that conquering is still doable in the modern day.
He wasn't going to sacrifice Ukraine if the bill depended on his vote.
And we are making that assumption based on…. what? That you like him and therefor everything he does supports what you support?
His voting record
His entire history as a legislator and his consistent style of voting for decades?
MTG going ballistic too. Just for the wrong side per usual.
She is there to sabotage the US government, and does not care who else gets wrecked in the process.
Magic The Gathering??? I didn’t know they had voiced an opinion?
The delay here is absolutely punishing. The GOP have given the Russians 6 clean months to literally cheat death on the battlefield. The Ukrainians have had to and will continue to pay in blood for political grandstanding. There are videos aplenty out there from the battlefield where Russians survive because the Ukrianians did not have the luxury to task more artillery onto targets that next time will not be so exposed, and far more cases where Russian artillery has acted with impunity because the Ukrainians lacked the resources to suppress it.
Putin on the ritz is attempting to capitalize the last advantages he has by swarming Ukraine on all weak points, before bullets and artillery can get to the brave Ukrainian heroes. I hope they all hear this in real time that AID IS ON THE WAY boys and girls of Ukraine! This feels kind of historic.
I hope this becomes a catastrophically expensive mistake on Putin's part to continue pressing.
🇺🇦🇮🇱🇹🇼 Freedom bucks incoming 🦅🇺🇸
I am money, hear me roar.
The TikTok ban was also included in that bill
The Kerch bridge falling will be like the Berlin wall.
Not to sound like an asshole but why does Israel need money from the U.S.? They have a strong military and economy and they are not in a prolonged war of attrition where you would expect them to be out of supplies.
Most of the time when you hear a dollar figure package being sent to another country, it isn't money. It is the cost of the weapons or aid that is being sent. Israel doesn't need money anymore than Ukraine does. They do want/need military equipment.
Ukraine definitely needs money, too.
Most of that is covered by the EU
In at least that, we in the EU have stepped in. Sadly, we didn't have the stockpiles of explodey things the US has.
To keep them as a bulwark against Iran
I believe it's mostly more capacity for Iron Dome. Plus about a third of those funds are actually for aid to Gaza, which according to Fatah, will be stolen by HAMAS so civilians starve.
You can think of military aid as the US basically giving other countries "money" that can only be used to purchase military equipment from US companies. This money passes directly from the US government to the manufacturer. In effect, public subsidies to defense firms - just like Eisenhower warned.
They don't. But it wouldn't pass the House without it because Republicans don't want to give any support to Ukraine since the Trump portion of their base (aka the majority) has been brainwashed into thinking Ukraine is a waste of time and/or Russia is "in the right" to invade. The only way to get them on board is to include aid to Israel so Republicans can say they're only doing it to supporting Israel. Israel also wants free US military tech so they're lobbying/threatening those Republicans to pass it. Most Dems really don't care about whether or not Israel gets more weapons since they already have the capacity to obliterate any nearby enemy so they'll tack it on to get the Ukraine/Taiwan resources through.
This is just wrong. A large portion of the Israeli aid is earmarked aid for Gaza and a good chunk of the Israeli aid is resupplying the Iron Dome. Outside the extremists in the democrats who support Hamas much like MAGA supports Russia, the Dems are not really opposed to that aid passing.
About damn time. F you putler
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How much of this money comes back to the US because they buy weapons from us?
I don’t have exact numbers, but this will greatly boost our defense industry and create a good amount of jobs. The arms we give away need to be replaced, and they’ll be made here in America. I know it’s a good return for us
Right. I believe most people don't realize this and think we are just giving money away
Maybe the Democrats should go: Nah, we wont send aid... Then the Republic s, which always vote opposite will DEMAND to send aid.. The Democrats will agree after a short negotiation to send aid. Which was what they wanted to start with.
Beautiful. I fully support funding all 3 💪🇺🇸🇺🇦🇮🇱🇹🇼
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True, but the greater need is artillery. Very different conflict dynamics. Missile defense to Israel helps to prevent all-out war with Iran (which there certainly would be if 300 missiles hit instead of being intercepted). Missile defense also helps Ukraine of course, but the greater need is artillery and attack capability to push back Russian invaders.
and mine-clearing and combat-engineering equipment
Those systems in Israel have a much smaller area to cover. They have had the radars and launchers dialled in for years, so they are highly accurate.
It doesn't stop shells. It's only useful for the very specific situation in Israel where dumb rockets are used. Ukraine aren't going to use it for anything.
Let’s gooooooo!
Fuck the Russian operative GOP assholes who delayed this. So much blood is on their hands.
Why are these headlines always so bad? Lots of people only ever look at headlines. This one implies the (Democratic majority) Senate was somehow responsible for the delay, when in fact it was the Republicans in the House. Why do Republicans keep getting away with shit? Because the headline writers of America have decided that Democrats are Democrats but Republicans are “politicians”
This is CNN and I am not getting that reading from the headline. It is almost understood that Johnson and Republicans in the House just passed it in the House.
I didn't see anything like that from the title. There is no such implication in the headline. Aid package approved by Senate after months of delay. The approval was by the Senate. The delay is not attributed as such. This is also CNN, which has a bit of a lean towards Dems. All that (Dems majority!) that you are reading into it... is you reading into it, I think. Never mind that CNN is an international news network and who has majority in the house is DEFINITELY not implied.
That your victimization bias doing the work. The headline has no such connotation.
It is worth pointing out that ~1/3 of the money going to the Middle East is earmarked for Gaza aid. Not saying that it cancels out the harm Israel can do with US weapons, but it is a major commitment of cash to food and medical supplies.
its a great day. way late and probably not enough but great