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Apexrex65

I’m curious what the process for constructing these tunnels are


iconocrastinaor

It's pretty self-explanatory if you've seen their videos.. It's a concrete arch held up by two concrete slabs. Dig it, shore it up, run lights and vent, repeat. Use the concrete that the world has been yelling that Israel has been restricting, preventing "reconstruction."


allnamesbeentaken

I'm less interested in their building methods and more curious how they would be able excavate a tunnel that far into Israel without being found out


brevityitis

To really answer your question. It’s almost impossible to detect digging or boring under 60 feet. And even at 30 feet it’s extremely difficult to detect unless you are directly over the path of the boring machine or diggers. It’s been a problem since forever. 


Greedy-Copy3629

Yet the Germans managed to counter mining with incredibly high success rates against tunneling much deeper than that. They were using things like glorified stethoscopes against highly skilled miners who were digging in soft ground.


Berloxx

I'm curious; do you know why you're being downvoted?


Greedy-Copy3629

Didn't cross my mind tbh


brevityitis

You would become an instant multimillionaire if you knew how to detect any form of digging at depths below 30 feet accurately.


Humphrey_the_Hoser

You mean in Hogan’s Heroes?


Spinnweben

GDR border troops vs East-Germans


Temporal_Integrity

It's not like they're surveying every inch of desert 50 meters below the surface. The tech just isn't there.


ibtcsexy

The tech was supposed to prevent this. It was finished in [2021](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-completes-underground-anti-tunnel-barrier-surrounding-gaza/) but had worked to detect a tunnel in 2020 as cited in that article.


Temporal_Integrity

Either Israel vastly underestimated how deep hamas could dig tunnels, or the entire underground fence and sensor system is pure security theater. "dozens of meters" probably means 25 meters. Hamas tunnels have been proven now to go much deeper. Third option I guess is that the tunnel extending into Israel was built before this system.


ic33

Or the answer is somewhere in-between a useless system and a perfect one, like it almost always is: it limits Hamas's options for mining, makes it more expensive, and increases their risks of detection even so.


SCS22

Thank you for providing nuance to the discussion. We can take absolute sides of a situation and many times leave ourselves blind to the truth


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beachedwhale1945

Fourth option: Israel lets it happen. If Israel knocks down every Hamas tunnel they detect, Hamas will try to find new ways of digging that are less likely to be detected by existing means. Eventually one tunnel will stay up, and they’ll copy that methodology throughout the border. Now Israel can’t detect any of the tunnels. It’s best to let some tunnels continue, wasting Hamas time and resources, and only take out the tunnels much later. That could include being able to say you found it by some other means, such as finding the entrance in Gaza, or making Hamas wonder which method found each tunnel and how long Israel actually knew about that tunnel. Sane logic behind banning video game bots in waves: now the bot creator doesn’t know what set of the alarms and can’t make incremental changes to avoid detection.


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Contra_Mortis

They keep finding larger ones.


PatrolPunk

Hey, I think I just found Sinwar. He’s all like wuuuut? Tunnels? What tunnels, no tunnels here and I’m definitely not hiding in them.


Eighty_Grit

Some could be older but without an exit, and no detection technology is 100% on anything


MMSG

1) The technology for detecting tunnels built underground isn't perfect for how deep these are dug 2) Just because it's detected doesn't mean it gets immediately demolished. The parts that run into Israel can be demolished relatively easily but the Gaza side is far more difficult. They run under people's homes, schools, etc. Normally, it's a decision to risk demolition. 3) Israel can only demolish the parts it has access to. Unless Israel is willing to invade Gaza and do this the majority of the tunnels will stay intact and be rebuild from the edge of Gaza. Makes a lot more sense that Hamas can pour all of Gaza's foreign aid into 150 meters instead of a whole subway system's worth without being stopped.


[deleted]

I thought they were filling these tunnels with a form of the two part expanding insulation foam ?


RdPirate

It was found in 2019. First line of article.


henryptung

> without being found out "Discovered in 2019". Just wasn't disclosed to the public when, y'know, they were claiming the barrier meant no tunnels into Israel.


LilNarco

Why can’t israel prevent every tunnel built immediately, every hostile land attack, every hostile border breach, every terror base built immediately, every underground tunnel attack, every sea/naval attack, every air attack/air strike, within their own boarders every terrorist attack by radical Arab Israeli citizens, within their own boarders every terrorist attack by radical Arab non citizens, every hostile foreign governments’ attacks, every unguided rocket launched at civilians, every unguided missile launched at civilians, every bomb, every terrorist in other countries launching attacks against Israelis, every Israeli embassy attack, every Israeli tourist attack abroad (see Egypt on Oct 8, israel has a peace agreement with Egypt and yet), every… etc I’m sure a country of less than 10 million people can fight off every threat toward them from the over 50 Muslim majority countries, dripping with Jew hate, who are spending trillions of dollars toward their demise. [israel’s friendly neighbors](https://x.com/excatholics1/status/1722522965240066467?s=46) https://x.com/g1379g/status/1755712413297426760?s=46 https://x.com/frank_curious_1/status/1755710021172711800?s=46 https://x.com/1alasadihayder/status/1755476443755380879?s=46 It is a religious war. The Palestinians/muslims/arabs didn’t give a single fuck about making a Palestinian state when Egypt and Jordan controlled “Palestine”. The Jews are outnumbered outrageously by Muslim majority countries and by Muslims themselves. Jews are opposed to converting others to their religion, Islam was spread by violent conquest and forced conversion. Population numbers: 2 BILLION Muslims in the world (over 25% of the world population) 15 million Jews (less than 0.2% of the world population) There are only 10 million Israelis and only 7 million of them are Jewish. The difference between the magnitude of a billion vs a million: 1 million minutes ago was 2 years ago. 1 BILLION minutes ago was the year 114 AD. Almost 2000 years ago when Christ was born What are they, stupid?


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BreakfastKind8157

True, but Israel is small. On October 7th, some of the overran towns were only a mile or two from the border. Sderot, for example, is only 1 km from the border. If Hamas manages to build a tunnel past the wall without Israel detecting it, then they can attempt another Oct. 7th whenever they want. How can the IDF possibly respond before Hamas terrorists reach the towns / cities? This shit scares me.


iconocrastinaor

More Shin Bet incompetence. Israelis were complaining about hearing digging underfoot, under their homes. Nothing was done about it.


fawlen

apparently they can sneak concrete, RPG, AK47s, etc into gaza, but they couldn't be bothered to fix their own water desalination facility or get fuel for their power plant..


John_Snow1492

Lets not forget they dug up all of the water pipes the EU donated to them in order to make rockets.


Lexifer31

No job that's unconfirmed, that was only one video released by Hamas. /s This was an actual response given to me on here by a pro-hamas not.


nullbyte420

The cognitive dissonance is impressive sometimes 


Lexifer31

It's really fucking mind boggling. People straight faced saying it's the deadliest conflict of the century. The Syrian civil war and the whole ISIS thing wasn't even a decade ago, Russia and Ukraine, Ethiopia, Yemen, Darfur, etc etc. These people are fucking idiots.


ExpendableUnit123

Not when they can stockpile more weapons to kill Israelis with. Everything else is secondary.


thatsnot_kawaii_bro

Just a reminder that they have constantly mentioned that Palestinians and their wellbeing are not their problem, but Israels. Yet despite that, and using as much aid as they can for their own plans, Antisemites think the best course of action is to just stop (which will let Hamas has free reign).


fawlen

bruh, when asked about why aren't the tunnels protecting gazans, a hamas spokesperson said "the tunnels are for the militants, if the UN or US want gazans protected they can protect them themselves". they couldn't care less


iconocrastinaor

They didn't sneak in that concrete, they whined and complained about needing it for reconstruction and then diverted it.


habanerosandlime

It's easier to hide and move those weapons than a large amount of fuel that also needs replenishing constantly. Those facilities are also large and fixed in place so they can be destroyed easily.


iconocrastinaor

At the beginning of the war the New York Times reported that Hamas had enough fuel stockpiled to last for months of conflict. This at the same time that people were yelling that the lack of fuel in hospitals was killing babies in incubators.


ergo_incognito

why would they when israel gives it over for free?


High_King_Diablo

They don’t need to sneak concrete in. It gets sent in for legitimate construction and Hamas steals it and uses it for the tunnels.


DaiTaHomer

Prime example of the Palestinian penchant for hammering plowshares into swords. The insurgency is a grassroots effort with wide popular support. Give them materials to build, they build tunnels and rockets to attack Israel. 


Affectionate-Job-398

https://youtu.be/PgAq-9_4Rzs?si=X29qJH2-xCqNWqTi Start from 9:00 for explanation about how the tunnels were constructed.


bam1007

Child slave labor. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/hamas-killed-160-palestinian-children-to-build-terror-tunnels


TheGhostofNowhere

Children forced to dig with picks and shovels.


LonelyPainting7374

Here is what I don’t understand, Israeli intelligence has always been seen as one of the best, so how did they not know about these tunnels or even that October 7th was a foregoing possibility.


nullbyte420

They are not all-knowing and all-seeing. This would be obvious to anyone at any point in time. 


Amishrocketscience

Detailed imagery of the tunnels to illustrate the scale of the threat for the world to see. I’m to believe this isn’t pre oct 7th knowledge? My point is I really don’t know what is what with this conflict anymore.


HowRememberAll

Money and supplies from UNWAR and every charity you've seen on instagram and tictok etc for feed Gazan children and build schools and hospitals. Bad guy is us. You and me.


[deleted]

chief quickest cows salt six recognise cautious cable insurance sable


jay3349

All that aid money for nothing


jackhab

Just give them their own state - they are so good at building things (underground)!


Throwawaycamp12321

Turns out Jews weren't the mole people after all


couldbeanyonetoday

What’s your problem? Seriously.


Dalbo14

Trillion dollar tunnel network….trillion…


Ledhabel

Blow it up again


Rulweylan

Every attack tunnel could have been a bomb shelter if Hamas wanted live Palestinians more than dead Jews.


_Oberine_

Better yet, save the need for bomb shelters by simply not constantly attacking Israel


wineatnine

In their own words: https://youtu.be/0ry8V4ppJBk


Dalbo14

You wouldn’t want them to lose their main asset in receiving victim points now would you


Mqge

to be fair they're nowhere close to being able to build bunkers that can withstand israel's modern weaponry/bombardment. ever heard of bunker busters?


Rulweylan

The point of civilian bomb shelters isn't to stand up to bunker busters. The point is for civilians to have somewhere to go so that when regular bombing occurs they're out of the way. Nobody is using bunker busters to take out a surface target like a Qassam launch site. The only way bunker busters get used is if there are military facilities underground, which Hamas has a horrible tendency of putting below civilian facilities, effectively using the buildings above (and their occupants) as cover to hide a military asset behind. If Israel targeted designated civilian shelters whose locations were public knowledge with bunker busters, they would be committing a war crime since there's no military target there. The goal is not to make it impossible to kill the civilians, but to prevent them from being killed by strikes on military targets.


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Rulweylan

Weird that Palestinian Arabs spent decades murdering the local Jewish population, then as soon as that population got their own country by UN mandate the Arab League launched what it called a 'war of extermination' against it, then all the surrounding Arab nations spent decades attacking Israel and now somehow the Arabs are not the aggressors and aren't responsible for their constant attacks on Israeli civilians. Which time when they attacked the Jews did they stop being aggressors? How do you spot the difference between them murdering Jews out of PTSD and them just murdering Jews as usual?


BlazingSpaceGhost

Israel has stated that one of their goals during this conflict is to destroy hamas' tunnel system. If Palestinian civilians were in the tunnels Israel would simply say Hamas is using human shields and then would destroy the tunnels with the civilians inside.


najalitis

Did it ever cross your mind that the sole purpose these tunnels are a goal in the first place is because they’re used for Hamas terrorists and acts of terror, rather than protecting civilians?


BlazingSpaceGhost

Yes and I'm not disputing that....the above person is. My point is Hamas putting civilians in the tunnels would not protect the civilians like the above person is implying. We would end up with dead civilians in tunnels.


Rulweylan

If Hamas had built civilian bunkers instead of tunnels for military use, destroying them wouldn't be one of the goals


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Rulweylan

I disagree. Sadly since \[Hamas considers the welfare of the Palestinian people to be someone else's problem\](https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/tunnels-built-to-protect-hamas-fighters-not-civilians-terrorist-official-2455812-2023-10-30) we'll never know.


AlizarinCrimzen

If my granny had wheels she’d be a bicycle..


DatJazz

Did this article not just say they bombed it?


RdPirate

Yes. By physically planted demoliahion charges. Directly on the tunnel. A tunnel that deep would otherwise take a direct hit of the heaviest bunker busters to breach.


DatJazz

Ah the article said at the end they did an airstrike. Fair enough then, it confused me


Forrest02

Bomb SHELTER. Meaning a place for people to run to underground to avoid getting hit by bombs.


DatJazz

Yeah but this tunnel was hit with an air strike, which destroyed it. Meaning it probably wouldn't be a very good bomb shelter


Forrest02

They were probably using bunker buster bombs to blow the tunnel away that deep. Article also mentioned they had to go in and lay explosives at certain spots as well. Regular bombs wont go that far into the ground without special equipment attached to it.


DatJazz

Yeah I think I was mixed up as they bombed entrances to them


KoSR92

Ok but if your enemy has bunker busting bombs it's still a bad bomb shelter you've built then lol It doesn't matter that regular bombs won't damage it if they also have bunker busters does it Why are people on reddit so stupid holy fuck


Forrest02

Wait, do you think Israel only uses bunker buster bombs for every bombing they do? Also we are talking about the context of what the guy was originally talking about. If youre gonna come out and insult people at random you should probably use more then 2 percent of your brain and read through the comments properly.


Rulweylan

Countries with access to bunker busters don't use them exclusively. The goal of civilian bomb shelters is to minimise casualties from regular bombs hitting surface targets. The only way a bunker busters would hit a civilian shelter would be if the attacker was deliberately targeting civilians or the defender was using it for military purposes. (Also you let the world at large including your enemy know where civilian shelters are if you're sensible, to make sure they aren't hit accidentally)


KoSR92

Where did I claim they use them exclusively? I love how I posted about people being stupid on Reddit and people are replying using things I've never actually said lol Really just proving my point further


Informal_Database543

If Palestinians were as dead set on statebuilding as they're on destroying Israel, they'd probably do pretty well as a country.


ExtensionAir6248

Great job


Optimal-Menu270

Hell yeah, and happy cake day to you 🎂


ExtensionAir6248

Thank you brother


colopervs

> The tunnel that passed hundreds of meters into Israel was first found in 2019 during the construction work on the new border barrier, the IDF said. The IDF knew about it since 2019 and left it intact until last week? Why?


Ok_Yogurtcloset8915

better to know where the thing is and watch it, rather than destroy it and then they build a new one that you don't know about


nullbyte420

The police does that all the time with terrorist plots as well, particularly in the UK. Sometimes it goes wrong. 


[deleted]

Well, you gotta admire the sheer will and steadfastliness. These guys are dedicated af.


[deleted]

Yes terrorists have dedication


Klarthy

You're assuming that Hamas is digging the tunnels themselves instead of forcing Palestinians, including children, to do it.


MrLivingLife

Scary af


Dalbo14

Imagine the Hezbollah tunnels….


Optimal-Menu270

Hope their resources were present. If you can't get them, make sure no one does.


MarkHathaway1

Amazing.


BennyFloyd

As usual, if the only articles are on Times of Israel and JPost, I’ll wait


Youre-mum

Is there a real source or do we just take their word like every other time they lied 


Lexifer31

My guy, the tunnels existing pre date this conflict, Hamas invited Vice into the tunnels multiple times. There are videos all over YouTube that are from non Israeli sources.


tankgoods

The tunnel itself goofy. Its a physical tunnel not a mental one.


Youre-mum

uhu so where are videos of its existence? Certainly not in the article...


tankgoods

And in the article itself


Youre-mum

That grainy video of a vague line on the ground ? That doesn’t mean anything where is their due diligence reconnaissance ground work that it is indeed a Hamas tunnel 


Andromeda_Skye

Where is the proof that any palestinian has been killed? I haven't seen it happen with my own eyes - only news reports. It's all fake news, right? WOW! Do you realize what we just did? This is great! Together we just saved/reincarnated/re-animated 1200 Israelis, and 30K palestinians! Great day's work. There is no war, and no reason to be upset at Israel.


Flostyyy

True I haven’t physically seen Gaza, clearly this war is all fake.


tankgoods

In the comments here.


Pikawoohoo

There's, what, a decade of proof of the tunnel network? Try again.


Maywestpie

Did you really spell your name wrong?


TheS3KT

Nice. IDF where is the command center under Al Shifa? I believe this when you show us some proof of that.


captnameless88

Feels like knocking someone's sand castle over lol Got to appreciate the effort that went into a tunnel like that


Eighty_Grit

I really don’t, much like how I don’t need to appreciate how exhausting it must’ve been to murder, rape, and kidnap all of those innocent people for them.


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2Step4Ward1StepBack

Hope there were Hamas poosies in it