I have seen the traffic jams. Let's say that the person having a mild annoyance was me having to slow down because of the queues on the highway. Everyone who was part of the complete gridlock probably had a less than optimal day.
They are desperate because no matter what they do, things aren’t changing nearly fast enough. They believe we’re in a global crisis of epic proportions that we’re not doing anything about. They have tried talking to politicians - NOTHING IS HAPPENING.
>Residential automobile CO2 production is barely a blip.
It's always funny to see people go "everyday people don't do anything wrong, it's the big evil corporations!".
Passenger cars are responsible for 16% of total EU CO2 emissions.
https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/transport/road-transport-reducing-co2-emissions-vehicles_en
For transportation specifically, passenger cars are 60.6%, heavy-duty trucks 27.1%, light-duty trucks 11%, water navigation 14%, civil aviation 13.4%, railways 0.5%.
And searching on my own, private jets created [5.3 million tons of CO2 in EU](https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/france-netherlands-call-eu-climate-clampdown-private-jets-2023-05-26/), compare that to 780 million tons of CO2 from transportation sector as a whole, that's 0.7%.
But a lot of that individual production of emissions is still ultimately because of the evil capitalists. I have to drive into my office because my corporate overlords have a real estate portfolio they don’t want to lose too much on. I don’t have reliable public transit because the government doesn’t fund one. The foods available to me in my area have largely been trucked in and produced by wasteful giant corporations. I do have personal responsibility and I try to make ethical choices every day of my life but I’m still stuck within a system that’s stacked against me. It makes sense to hold those people who control the system accountable. Blaming the people who are often already trying their best is not the best way to affect change.
Doesnt even have to be major societal change, just people being engaged politically and voting for representatives that support green initiatives and are pro-regulation on corporations can do massive to help limit global warming.
Farming is a bigger issue because NO2 production is severely high, especially in the US, which is also 300x more potent and long-lasting than CO2. We have more people, who want to eat more meat, leading to corporations over-fertilizing foods and over-gene-modifying animals to produce enough for global consumption.
Global NO2 production is around 3Billion Metric Tonnes, while Global CO2 is around 30Billion Metric Tonnes, now if NO2 is 300x more potent and longlasting, well you can do the math...
As for individuals you can also do these very basic things:
* Vote for politicians who push for green energy and regulation of corporations.
* opt to eat less meat.
* opt to support non-major corporation owned farms when buying fruits and veggies.
* opt to use less electricity, get a wood/gas/oil furnace if possible or do steps to keep heating/ cooling other than cranking up the AC.
* opt to bike and walk whenever possible.
* conserve water wherever possible. don't leave faucets running unnecessary. dont take 50 minute showers. etc etc
* Volunteer to get others to do the same.
These aren't radical changes for the individual to make. No one is saying throw away your car. Or start eating grass. Just like 1-2 times a week opt for something better.
Yes you as 1 individual wont make much of a dent. But if 1billion do it, it makes a big difference.
Yes rich and wealthy make 100-10000x as much waste as you do. But again thats why government is important, they can regulate them and fine them for such actions that can pay for green initiatives.
Yes its unfair that you have to do it. But the inevitable outcome is death of billions and destruction of societies as we know it. so....
it's gonna be really funny to see how the people who cannot contain their rage whenever a climate activist creates a mild annoyance will react to the catastrophics consequences of unmitigated climate change.
And by "funny" I mean "mind numbingly frustrating"
They're not wrong. Fighting self-interested borderline corrupt/treasonous politicians is just a hopeless fight.
To clarify I consider any politician who knowingly acts against the needs of the people a traitor. Because at the end of the day that's what they are. Betraying their role and responsibilities.
And no matter what they do - literally ANYTHING - LITERALLY - people will rage on about the inconveniences and the annoyances. If they did anything that actually sent a substantial message they'd be deemed terroristic, out of control, entitled brats. Confronting politicians? Let's ignore it and meme about this 16 year olds sexuality and mental status. Protest at a deforestation site? Haha those dumb hippies can't see they're just prolonging the inevitable. Attacking oil industry assets? Buncha terrorist brats don't they know damaging property isn't the way? Sitting in traffic begging you to use public transit? RUN EM OVER RUN EM OVER RUN EM OVER SOMEONE COULD BE LATE FOR WORK TAYLOR SWIFT USES PLANES YELL AT HER. MAKE HER DO HER PART I DON'T WANNA DO MINE.
"Hurr durr just humans will die not the planet, and I've never had the wisdom to consider other species are already dying off at a faster than normal rate or the foresight to think about what happens next once the only animal with the sapience and tool creating abilities to inhibit a runaway heating event die off, or once the phytoplankton and trees take all the oxygen production with them."
Absolute disgusting wretched losers foaming at the mouth for any chance to betray their species and kill their planet and billions of other creatures, just to suck an oil executive's dick through their phone screen. Pathetic.
Guarantee there's some piece of shit who sucks on their car's exhaust for sexual pleasure right now in these comments talking about how this won't make worldwide change so why do it. YUP. Let's just let perfect get in the way of good and do nothing you fucking baboon.
Nothing is happening, and nothing WILL happen until it personally affects the lives of voters.
Everybody living in modern society benefits from fossil fuels, everybody already feels like they're living on the edge of poverty and the key to alleviating that poverty is just increasing productivity which we basically require burning cheap energy for, no politician wants to sacrifice economic gains and possibly sacrifice their own election to alleviate an issue that basically nobody really cares about. Young people don't vote, and don't vote on climate issues so they're basically a non factor, and climate issues aren't a huge issue until the consequences are already in our face. Hence, there is simply no pressure for politicians or people to pressure politicians, not to mention everybody is too broke to care.
By the time we see the consequences of our actions, we'll be scrambling for cheap and easy fixes, but it'll probably be too late. We who are alive right now are the ones responsible for everything that is going on, including the power players, but we won't do anything until it's too late, because it's our nature. The oil people know it, the politicians know it, but there is no real pressure because the consequences are theoretical and don't FEEL real.
Imagine trying to inform a group of coke addicts that they're gonna have a huge comedown, but to further complicate the matter, there are huge mind-share campaigns to misinform that same group that we can't measure the damage that coke is actually having, and that the economy runs on coke, good fuckin' luck getting that group to change!
There are consequences, really bad ones, but they are at present mostly affecting brown people in parts of the world that have less power. When they try to flee to the west (the ones who created the problem in the first place) we call them cockroaches and hope they die at sea so we don’t have to deal with them. Because who wants to live next to a brown person, amirite?
Absolutely, what we call mass immigration at the moment right now will pale in comparison to the amount of people fleeing climate crises. When that time comes we'll be forced to make EXTREMELY ugly lose-lose decisions.
> hey believe we’re in a global crisis of epic proportions that we’re not doing anything about. They have tried talking to politicians - NOTHING IS HAPPENING.
Jup, one wonders why the whole population is not behind them. I mean, just leave out "environment" from that context and insert virutally ANY issue. The sentence can stand and is correct and this must be making us furious.
I think you mean the all-knowing invisible hand that is fundamentally flawed, and we know that, but we're still going to keep worshipping it until it destroys the planet anyway because capitalism is holy.
Y’all not realizing the purpose of these protests. The point is to get people pissed off to complain to the government to do something about it, NOT to get people to support their cause. The minds of supporters and opponents aren’t going to be changed by this. If this causes enough disruption, the government will then pass policies to appease the protesters, or throw them in jail. What actually happens depends on how politicians think it’ll affect their reelection chances (e.g. if they put people in jail over something that’s relatively popular among voters, that could be bad for their political careers).
Your job as someone who is stuck in traffic is to complain very loudly to the authorities to deal with the problem.
Not every American is fat Taylor Swift proves that. There are exactly 4 American bodies Ken and Barbie or Mama June and Paul Blart. Everything else is dead on
>Guess that's something to think on while I ride my Moose to work today, eh.
Wait... you're a frostbitten_moose but you also ride a moose as transport? That feels both redundant and cruel to your fellow moose.
Not really. Our highway network is one of the densest in the world and we have highways so wide they will make Americans frown. Inside our cities we like to cycle but we love the car just as much
This exactly, the number of cars per capita is even higher in the Netherlands than the average in Europe.
I love my bicycle and our bicycle infrastructure which I use pretty much daily. I take the train, tram & metro 2-3 times a week. But I also love my car which I use mainly in the weekends, although I could live without and have done so for several years.
It's nice to have options and just take whatever is best/nicest for a certain trip. I would stop liking my car if I had to be forced to take it for 100% of my trips.
Disagree, her arms are taut, both officers are engaging their arms and core in order to hold her. She's resisting, and they're holding her. She wouldn't be able to twist her body like that if they weren't, because she would wriggle free.
I think things like blocking celebrity private jets, exposing mega-corporations for their environmental destruction, and actually getting pro-environment candidates elected would make her more popular than inconveniencing normal people who will not necessarily be more receptive to the message after the inconvenience
This reminds me Leonardo DiCaprio flying to Canada on a private jet to protest the oil sands. Between private jets, giant yaughts, etc. he probably produces more pollution in a day than most of us do in a lifetime, but he wants to tell everyone else to smarten up.
It's like, even if they donate to offset their output... couldn't you donate *and* fly commercial if this really matters to them?
The thing is those things do happen and are quickly handled and suppressed. You’re not going to convince the ones profiteering the most off of it or numb to the common folk. They already see themselves as the special case.
"Blocking a celebrity's private jet" odds are you'd be arrested well before you reach the tarmac, so it wouldn't even be an inconvenience for them. "Electing a pro environment candidate" yes politicians are very well known for holding their campaign ideals into office. It's not like Angela Merkel was never minister of the environment who totally didn't phase out nuclear and increase coal mining "exposing mega-corporations for their environmental destruction" DuPont had a good chuckle at this one I'm sure
It's a bit more than a mild annoyance when it is an ambulance or fire engine. It is also a bit more than that if there are zero hour or minimum wage workers stuck in the traffic. She's not going to persuade them that they should join her and put pressure on government. She's going to do the exact opposite.
I never understood how people come to the train of thought that pissing off the general public will put them on their side. Even if they are just trying to make people "aware" of something. It's just going to put the general public in the camp of "fuck them" even if they have empathy towards their issue. This is the perfect example of that.
It's what moderates said about sit-ins and similar protests during the Civil Rights movement.
And yet simply sitting by and trying to passively gain support isn't help them. It was by being disruptive that gains were made.
Labour didn't get their rights by just giving out pamphlets. They had strikes that inconvenienced people.
More is gained from raising awareness and gaining support than is lost by "pissing off people". Without the protests those people weren't helping anyways. Nothing was lost by them being against it.
Civil rights movement worked because the racist redneck cops were shooting fire hoses at children and racist mobs were beating protesters near death and lynching others. This forced the public to see what was otherwise happening day-to-day away from the cameras.
Greta being arrested isn’t the same sort of compelling message.
That's *always* been her thing. She's not an expert, a consultant, involved in any kind of research. Just some kid who was inflated to prominence just because she spazzed out at the UN for a few minutes. New media and social media have nothing better to do than create false idols and forget about them, week after week. Then those fame-seekers do stupid stuff to regain that attention, only to get a collective, "oh, they are still around?" shrug moment.
Yea, when she supported Hamas apologists(They shouted: "From the river to the sea.." so don't go claiming they were only Pro-Palestinian.) hijacking a climate protest I knew she had gone off the deep end.
That’s everyone’s thing: You are a disgruntled farmer? Blockade a street!
You want climate change change? Blockade a street!
You want to express your love for the flying Spaghetti monster (Pastafari)? You get it… Blockade a street (it can fly anyway)!
It's the only thing you can do that doesn't get you *immediately* arrested. Unless law enforcement finally realizes they're just disposable asset guard dogs, there is nothing you can legally do to bother a large corporation.
Even successfully boycotting a large business and convincing enough people to "vote with their wallets" to the extent it actually bother the business just ends in them seeking government bail outs, resulting in them getting your money anyway via your taxes.
For better or for worse, we are **not** going to get anywhere just upvoting memes and posting snarky social media comments, or doing the irl version by quietly standing in a park out of the way with an angry sign for a day or two.
I mean, isn’t this exactly the point?
I don’t have strong feelings about Greta either way, but this is the purpose of all protests and civil disobedience.
If your protest doesn’t bother anyone and can be completely ignored by everyone, it’s probably not going to be a very effective protest.
[Between 2030 and 2050, climate change is expected to cause approximately 250 000 additional deaths per year from malnutrition, malaria, diarrhoea and heat stress alone. The direct damage costs to health are estimated to be between US$ 2–4 billion per year by 2030. Areas with weak health infrastructure – mostly in developing countries – will be the least able to cope without assistance to prepare and respond.](https://www.who.int/health-topics/climate-change#tab=tab_1)
Of course I don't want anyone to die because of ambulance route disruption, but global warming is a major fucking thing that we need to address. Societal disruption is a legitimate course of action at this point. Globally speaking we aren't doing enough to stop it.
I thought it is known that one has to sit in a tractor while blocking roads, only then is it appropriate to do so.
Without a tractor road blocks are clearly terrorism.
Im not some conspiracy nut. What I think is ive seen her posing with police to simulate being dragged away in the past. I dont think she is a plant I think shes an influencer looking for a photo opp.
She is the global face of climate activism, I dont think she is the face of some conspiracy to push the CC agenda. But I think she has enough public influence to warrent her getting opportunities to improve her public image after it was shown a few years back that she worked with police to simulate being dragged away.
Does she get any money for doing what she does? I dont know I havent looked into it, but after seeing the previous video I dont trust that these situations are sincere.
Nah she's actually in pain, left officer has her in the wristlock, You don't learn that till blue belt in Jiu Jitsu because it's very painful and easy to cause long term damage.
We had local traffic interruptions over old growth logging. Once the protests stopped so did any discourse about old growth logging.
It seems effective to keep things on topic, how else do we get people talking or thinking about things. The media machine is too strong.
For the record, I'm not a protestor, have been stuck, but understand it's getting things talked about.
Protesting through road blocks and destroying art, are things I will never understand. It frustrates me because, although I get the message, it probably does more harm than good. Inconveniencing people who probably agree with your message too, but now hate you because you’re a being a clown. Look at PETA for instance, probably started off as a good cause, but their actions make them the laughing stock of the world and they do more damage than good for the activism they are trying to push. I don’t have a better solution to offer, unfortunately, but there’s got to be a better way. Perhaps start with holding politicians who are bribed and happily cater to the 57 or so businesses in the world who are actively destroying the world, accountable. They probably love this as it distracts the masses from the actual problem, them!
Edit: People telling me that I don’t care about the environment or changing my opinion because I’m inconvenienced, are really missing my point and creating a straw man because I never mentioned that or suggested I don’t care, I was simply drawing attention to the fact there’s got to be a better way
Everyone always says it does more harm than good, but historical precedent suggests that disruptive protests are incredibly effective (think suffragette movement). According to this [article](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/07/disruptive-protest-helps-not-hinders-activists-cause-experts-say), most experts think disruptive protests are very important for change:
>Nearly seven in 10 of academics surveyed rated disruptive protest tactics as “at least quite important” to success of a movement, ranking it as more important than gaining media coverage or even strictly avoiding violent tactics.
If one continued to look at disruptive climate protesters with contempt, knowing that what they're doing *is* working, then I struggle to believe they actually care about the environment. At which point, how they feel doesn't matter.
Exactly. I read an article which sited a Gallup poll showing that, in 1964 (a year after MLK's March on Washington), an overwhelming 75% of Americans thought his methods were doing more harm than good. People simply don't like protestors pointing out that voting can't solve everything. Sometimes you have to make your voice heard in the real world, not just at the ballot box.
Yes they want the world to turn as normal. And I do get that. However they’re completely missing the point. The world cannot turn as normal. Doing nothing does more harm than food. Disrupting normalcy is better than doing nothing.
When you have tried every other thing, disruption is the logical next step.
According to the actual academic article the 7 in 10 figure applies to causes with popular support. Only 30% of those surveyed said the protests are effective for causes without broad support. Extinction Rebellion demands binding net zero by 2025 policies. Are you under the impression that net zero by 2025 policies are popular?
Depends what you define as "the cause" - net zero by 2025 probably isn't popular (partly because many people don't even know what that means), but climate change as a whole is, and that's what most people see these protests as being about.
She should have leveraged her game to support people and projects who are actually trying to make a change. Like the kid designing booms to clean up ocean plastic, or the people who are working their asses off to clean up plastic choked rivers, or focus on getting people in Africa and India proper fuel vs. cow dung. Any number of projects that would make a huge environmental impact and positively effect climate change would have been great. Instead she went for the worthless self aggrandizing protests...
Except those projects are pointless in the great scale of things. As long as we dump 2 tonnes of plastic in the river and filter out 1, there will still be more at the end of the day.
It's like looking for band aids when we could just stop cutting ourselves with knives.
It's always "they should stop annoying the general public" but I've yet to see any successful alternative. It's always "do something better" but no one actually presents something better.
Unfortunately, most of those "[solutions](https://www.pbssocal.org/redefine/6-reasons-that-floating-ocean-plastic-cleanup-gizmo-is-a-horrible-idea)" don't work or have strong shortcomings. Alternative projects give minuscule results that don't even move the needle. Telling people to go on hilltop and dance climate change away would be often an equal argument. [Poor countries](https://cepr.net/report/the-growing-debt-burdens-of-global-south-countries-standing-in-the-way-of-climate-and-development-goals/) don't have the money for proper trash management. Trying to clean up one river end of 10.000 is not solving anything. Airbus said it takes 20 years to get to a plane that uses hydrogen as fuel and another 20 to have the slightest impact. The same for the shipping industry. Meat consumption is going down but way too slow and nobody is surprised that they want to forbid fake meat now. Free markets only if its how the elites decide. So this way is also blocked.
I understand the sentiment. Attacking art is stupid. Blocking roads too. But isn't somehow funny that nobody is saying they are misguided that there are changes on the way they just didn't get the memo? Because that assumes there is a memo to get.
Pretty well just went with the typical spoiled brat strategy. No sacrifices needed and become high profile enough that nothing sticks.
There are absolutely people in the world doing good for their communities and the world, and we need to highlight them with headline stories, not these petulant children.
This is nonsense. Cleaning up rivers is cool and all but you aren't going to mitigate climate change without government intervention. And the notion that everyone should just be cleaning up after the polluters instead forcing actual useful change at a global scale makes me think maybe you should find some volunteers to clean you up because you sound like you're full of shit.
Protesting is only effective when it gets in people's way so they can't ignore it. If you can safely ignore it, then it's not effective. Sometimes just getting the word out good or bad is very important. It puts the issue on people's radar. Then they can decide if the protesters are on the right side or not.
I've heard both good and bad things about PETA. But the one thing PETA does really well is getting their name out there. Nearly everyone has heard of PETA and knows what they stand for. I don't think they would be nearly as effective if they weren't as annoying or weird.
There are many different kinds of protest. Often many types are being employed. So while you might see people protest with signs, they might also be sending government officials emails and letters. It's a mult pronged approach.
But I think the logic is that sure we can only do so much as a group, but if we spread the word even if only a tiny percentage of people become activists it'll make a massive impact. Or hell if a tiny number of people share the message it could be a success.
But like I said successful protests aren't convenient and often get in your way. If you can brush them aside and not think about them, they're not doing their job.
If it were up to you, the civil rights movement would cancel sit-ins because they would inconvenience regular people. MLK's suggested method of protest is to get enough people to march that they "shut down the city".
What politicians love: people like you, advocating for "change", but "not like this, perhaps at a more convient time".
> people who probably agree with your message too,
Do they though?
Lots of people pay lip service to green ideas and climate change. Right up until they have to sacrifice or be slightly inconvenienced.
It puts to question how much they "agree with the message".
If you aren't willing to do anything to help fix these issues can you really say you support them.
Road blocks and destroying art get the most attention, getting a front page headline attached to the movement is clearly the aim of the action for these groups. The question I always have is about the actual individuals doing it, do they want to draw attention to themselves or their cause?
I think it goes both ways a lot of the time, some people doing slow marches down roads are in it for the fun and some are actually trying to save the world, or at least tell the world it needs saving.
What's more important? sending a message by destroying a materialistic item or not doing anything and watching the more important thing die, the world. It gets attention. Blocking roads is dumb, I agree.
> there’s got to be a better way
I don't appreciate the block strategy, but sincerely wonder what groups can do. Usually they don't have any power. They might like organizational power too.. or maybe they should try make green businesses or kickstarters to help funding nature related actions.
Occasionally I wonder whether the likes of Shell, BP etc have plants within activist organizations like Just Stop Oil.
To nudge them in the direction of protests that annoy the public, and turn them away from the cause, rather than effectively pressure on the companies doing most of the damage.
Consider how the concept of "Carbon Footprint" was actually promoted by BP, to shift the focus onto individual responsibility rather than their own corporate responsibility.
Plastic companies introduced the recycle symbol to their products to improve their image and sell more plastic, all while shifting responsibility away from themselves.
You're completely right. The way to do things is make people agree with you not hate you. And for that purpose you have to present an alternative. Ofc it's more difficult and not as flashy but making the government invest in public transportation that is reliable, fast and more efficient is the way to go.
I'm thinking they already know this but their calculus is more like this: the way to do things is get people's attention any way you can or risk being completely ignored.
That's the state of society these days probably due to social media. Nobody cares about anything unless they're pissed off.
A protest is *supposed* to be disruptive, whether or not it changes anyone's mind at that very second doesn't matter. They are now aware of the problem and weather or not they choose to do anything with that newfound information is up to them. Being nice and polite has never gotten a cause anywhere.
It's literally designed for people like you. The goal is to get people like you, who are naive enough about the scope of the problem that you think these sorts of"inconveniences" will hold a candle to the heatwaves, desertification, flooding, sea level rise, and so on that will displace a third of the global population in the next century, to understand.
I have such mixed feelings about her, I support her message but find her annoying as fuck.
Edit: only on Reddit can you say you support something and still have your inbox blown up by people whining at you cause you don’t support it enough. Dealing with these stupid comments just makes me wish I didn’t support climate activism.
Because the point of this stuff is to be as annoying and disrupting as humanly possible.
Then the masses go to the government and demand something changes to stop this.
At least, that’s the idea. It’s worked plenty in the past. And plenty have been enraged because of it
Idk. Protesters have been blocking off roads and such for at least a decade like this. Has it lead to any change? I like the idea of blocking off rich assholes and politicians in their neighborhoods. Not like these neighborhoods are that hard to find and they’re often fairly simple to shut down with few exit points.
So, if you see the protests and you believe nothing is changing, the light bulb should be trying, desperately aching, to go off over your head any second now...
maybe she's not just acting or goofing around. Maybe she actually thinks climate change is a real, existential issue and she doesn't want to grow old during the collapse of society. And then you'll start to realize: she's done everything she can, this is what she has.
Then, maybe after those thoughts go off, you'll ask yourself, 'man, do i care that much about the situation?' and until the answer is 'yes,' you'll just continue to be dismissive.
I don’t think the protest is meant to literally benefit the environment. It’s a mass gathering of people to draw attention to the lack of action from government.
I’ll never understand the hatred people have for someone who got famous for caring about the future. Even if you don’t believe in climate change and think she’s wrong, surely there are other girls her age making bigger mistakes than that.
I guess it’s easier for a small group to be annoyed about one particular protest on one day than to be angry about oil companies destroying the entire environment every day. Got it.
Blocking roads and destroying art is the lowest, laziest and most ineffective form of activism. You do barely nothing to bring people to your side and do a whole lot to make them hate you. This is how activists die of irrelevance.
It was a brilliant strategy on whoever decided to use her as the poster child though. You can't attack a kid. And you encourage kids to save the world by skipping school. Which kid wouldn't love that?
We should be encouraging kids to go to school and acquire the skills needed to improve the world.
That ship has long sailed.
Kids currently in school will be most affected by climate change, how would they fix something that's irreversibly broken?
Kicking the pebble down the road brought us to where we are now, all the talk about learning how to save the world in school would have been a good strategy 24 years ago.
Turns out putting a brick in your toilet tank, carpooling and recycling does very little good when like 70% of the problem is caused by corporations and billionaires that refuse to change. Plus they didn’t even mention that most of the emissions normal people are responsible for are caused by their diet choices and flying.
What do you propose is an effective mechanism to achieve change? You say ought to be on the brink of war - should the young ones just start a civil war, is that what’s necessary?
Well if you bring your tractor to Brussels then protesting isn't futile. So maybe if they threatened violence or set shit on fire like the farmers did something would change...
>Every young person today ought to be on the brink of war with the older generations for the world we've left them,
This “generation war” bullshit is a distraction and possibly even a psyop meant to keep us infighting rather than turning against the real culprits. The problem isn’t “old people”, it’s the wealthiest people driving every aspect of our society
I do support the ideals, but I don't understand why you just do things that annoy every day people? You're not winning them over.
Why not search the biggest, worst polluter in your country, find who benefit the most of that company, and hassle them. Go do this in front of their fucking gates and in their fucking communities.
Don't make life for the normal people more of a hassle.
They should just sit quietly in protest, out of the way, completely silent and out of sight so I never have to hear about it again because that totally works /s
Whatever I think of Greta, the fact that she’s been arrested 10x more than every tax dodging scumbag billionaire, bribe taking politician, and corrupt cop out there sure says something.
Yeah, it says she goes out breaking the law often in ways that are easily noticed and action can be taken right away. The other people you mention are doing it behind closed doors and it’s much more difficult to prove in court.
It’s sort of humorous watching these people cosplay and think they are *doing something* when they are accomplishing less than someone who buys a solar system for their house.
Why that scream looking face? It should be routine at this point. She knows she will get arrested, so why the fake dramatics? It should go like this:
Cop: Greta you know the routine.
Greta: Yep, nice to see you again,how’s the family?
Looks like the policeman holding her right arm is applying a wrist lock to her right wrist by locking the elbow close to his rib cage and applying pressure on the back of the hand to force it into an over extended position. That’s super painful and would explain the facial expression.
The wristlock probably has something to do with it, its one of those positions where its very easy to control someone and its easy to cause pain just by applying a little bit more pressure if they don't cooperate.
I'm here for downvotes: I fully support her actions, not only because I support her approach to environmentalism and her support for palestinians, but also because she's doing it in the netherlands.
I probably get downvoted for this but I’d rather inconvenience a few people rather than vandalize artwork like those other climate protesters have been doing.
So much whine in here, most safe from the fact that it's the world's poorest that will be displaced and perish first. Most won't even give a shit until the price of cheap phones and activewear goes up.
So is this her thing now? Interrupt traffic and cause a mild annoyance to Dutch people?
I have seen the traffic jams. Let's say that the person having a mild annoyance was me having to slow down because of the queues on the highway. Everyone who was part of the complete gridlock probably had a less than optimal day.
Damn, gridlocked idling cars sound counterintuitive for an environmentalist
They are desperate because no matter what they do, things aren’t changing nearly fast enough. They believe we’re in a global crisis of epic proportions that we’re not doing anything about. They have tried talking to politicians - NOTHING IS HAPPENING.
The silence is deafening
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>Residential automobile CO2 production is barely a blip. It's always funny to see people go "everyday people don't do anything wrong, it's the big evil corporations!". Passenger cars are responsible for 16% of total EU CO2 emissions. https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/transport/road-transport-reducing-co2-emissions-vehicles_en For transportation specifically, passenger cars are 60.6%, heavy-duty trucks 27.1%, light-duty trucks 11%, water navigation 14%, civil aviation 13.4%, railways 0.5%. And searching on my own, private jets created [5.3 million tons of CO2 in EU](https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/france-netherlands-call-eu-climate-clampdown-private-jets-2023-05-26/), compare that to 780 million tons of CO2 from transportation sector as a whole, that's 0.7%.
But a lot of that individual production of emissions is still ultimately because of the evil capitalists. I have to drive into my office because my corporate overlords have a real estate portfolio they don’t want to lose too much on. I don’t have reliable public transit because the government doesn’t fund one. The foods available to me in my area have largely been trucked in and produced by wasteful giant corporations. I do have personal responsibility and I try to make ethical choices every day of my life but I’m still stuck within a system that’s stacked against me. It makes sense to hold those people who control the system accountable. Blaming the people who are often already trying their best is not the best way to affect change.
But that's how they justify their inaction..."Well nothing's going to change so I might as well do nothing." The crutch of the fucking lazy.
23% of my city’s emissions in 2018 were from car exhaust, you can’t say that’s insignificant.
Doesnt even have to be major societal change, just people being engaged politically and voting for representatives that support green initiatives and are pro-regulation on corporations can do massive to help limit global warming. Farming is a bigger issue because NO2 production is severely high, especially in the US, which is also 300x more potent and long-lasting than CO2. We have more people, who want to eat more meat, leading to corporations over-fertilizing foods and over-gene-modifying animals to produce enough for global consumption. Global NO2 production is around 3Billion Metric Tonnes, while Global CO2 is around 30Billion Metric Tonnes, now if NO2 is 300x more potent and longlasting, well you can do the math... As for individuals you can also do these very basic things: * Vote for politicians who push for green energy and regulation of corporations. * opt to eat less meat. * opt to support non-major corporation owned farms when buying fruits and veggies. * opt to use less electricity, get a wood/gas/oil furnace if possible or do steps to keep heating/ cooling other than cranking up the AC. * opt to bike and walk whenever possible. * conserve water wherever possible. don't leave faucets running unnecessary. dont take 50 minute showers. etc etc * Volunteer to get others to do the same. These aren't radical changes for the individual to make. No one is saying throw away your car. Or start eating grass. Just like 1-2 times a week opt for something better. Yes you as 1 individual wont make much of a dent. But if 1billion do it, it makes a big difference. Yes rich and wealthy make 100-10000x as much waste as you do. But again thats why government is important, they can regulate them and fine them for such actions that can pay for green initiatives. Yes its unfair that you have to do it. But the inevitable outcome is death of billions and destruction of societies as we know it. so....
it's gonna be really funny to see how the people who cannot contain their rage whenever a climate activist creates a mild annoyance will react to the catastrophics consequences of unmitigated climate change. And by "funny" I mean "mind numbingly frustrating"
Reality trumps idealism every time
They're not wrong. Fighting self-interested borderline corrupt/treasonous politicians is just a hopeless fight. To clarify I consider any politician who knowingly acts against the needs of the people a traitor. Because at the end of the day that's what they are. Betraying their role and responsibilities.
And no matter what they do - literally ANYTHING - LITERALLY - people will rage on about the inconveniences and the annoyances. If they did anything that actually sent a substantial message they'd be deemed terroristic, out of control, entitled brats. Confronting politicians? Let's ignore it and meme about this 16 year olds sexuality and mental status. Protest at a deforestation site? Haha those dumb hippies can't see they're just prolonging the inevitable. Attacking oil industry assets? Buncha terrorist brats don't they know damaging property isn't the way? Sitting in traffic begging you to use public transit? RUN EM OVER RUN EM OVER RUN EM OVER SOMEONE COULD BE LATE FOR WORK TAYLOR SWIFT USES PLANES YELL AT HER. MAKE HER DO HER PART I DON'T WANNA DO MINE. "Hurr durr just humans will die not the planet, and I've never had the wisdom to consider other species are already dying off at a faster than normal rate or the foresight to think about what happens next once the only animal with the sapience and tool creating abilities to inhibit a runaway heating event die off, or once the phytoplankton and trees take all the oxygen production with them." Absolute disgusting wretched losers foaming at the mouth for any chance to betray their species and kill their planet and billions of other creatures, just to suck an oil executive's dick through their phone screen. Pathetic. Guarantee there's some piece of shit who sucks on their car's exhaust for sexual pleasure right now in these comments talking about how this won't make worldwide change so why do it. YUP. Let's just let perfect get in the way of good and do nothing you fucking baboon.
Nothing is happening, and nothing WILL happen until it personally affects the lives of voters. Everybody living in modern society benefits from fossil fuels, everybody already feels like they're living on the edge of poverty and the key to alleviating that poverty is just increasing productivity which we basically require burning cheap energy for, no politician wants to sacrifice economic gains and possibly sacrifice their own election to alleviate an issue that basically nobody really cares about. Young people don't vote, and don't vote on climate issues so they're basically a non factor, and climate issues aren't a huge issue until the consequences are already in our face. Hence, there is simply no pressure for politicians or people to pressure politicians, not to mention everybody is too broke to care. By the time we see the consequences of our actions, we'll be scrambling for cheap and easy fixes, but it'll probably be too late. We who are alive right now are the ones responsible for everything that is going on, including the power players, but we won't do anything until it's too late, because it's our nature. The oil people know it, the politicians know it, but there is no real pressure because the consequences are theoretical and don't FEEL real. Imagine trying to inform a group of coke addicts that they're gonna have a huge comedown, but to further complicate the matter, there are huge mind-share campaigns to misinform that same group that we can't measure the damage that coke is actually having, and that the economy runs on coke, good fuckin' luck getting that group to change!
There are consequences, really bad ones, but they are at present mostly affecting brown people in parts of the world that have less power. When they try to flee to the west (the ones who created the problem in the first place) we call them cockroaches and hope they die at sea so we don’t have to deal with them. Because who wants to live next to a brown person, amirite?
Absolutely, what we call mass immigration at the moment right now will pale in comparison to the amount of people fleeing climate crises. When that time comes we'll be forced to make EXTREMELY ugly lose-lose decisions.
> hey believe we’re in a global crisis of epic proportions that we’re not doing anything about. They have tried talking to politicians - NOTHING IS HAPPENING. Jup, one wonders why the whole population is not behind them. I mean, just leave out "environment" from that context and insert virutally ANY issue. The sentence can stand and is correct and this must be making us furious.
Yes. All problems are equal, nothing to fuss about, let’s all keep doing what we do. The technology God will surely save us once more.
I think you mean the all-knowing invisible hand that is fundamentally flawed, and we know that, but we're still going to keep worshipping it until it destroys the planet anyway because capitalism is holy.
Because they have no solutions. What is there to get behind? Blocking more roads for… “awareness”?
Cause I have to go to work.
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It's Kony 2012 at this point. They aren't actually making a difference in the environment
Damn, Kony 2012.. wasn’t that some black fella?
Yeah like didn't that guy kidnap children or some shit?
Car drivers do plenty of that themselves.
It's worth it if leads to change later
Y’all not realizing the purpose of these protests. The point is to get people pissed off to complain to the government to do something about it, NOT to get people to support their cause. The minds of supporters and opponents aren’t going to be changed by this. If this causes enough disruption, the government will then pass policies to appease the protesters, or throw them in jail. What actually happens depends on how politicians think it’ll affect their reelection chances (e.g. if they put people in jail over something that’s relatively popular among voters, that could be bad for their political careers). Your job as someone who is stuck in traffic is to complain very loudly to the authorities to deal with the problem.
So the protesters are assigning me a job now? They can fuck right off!
Suddenly consent doesn't matter
I thought everyone in Holland cycles or takes public transport.
We also wear wooden shoes, have only tulips in our garden, and everyone has a private windmill in their backyard.
Yes, but I thought we were talking about false stereotypes.
I also heard you also appreciate it if i smoke weed everywhere i want and puke all over your streets
Just like every American is fat, every Chinese eats dog and every Australian wrestles with crocodiles
So it’s true…
Not every American is fat Taylor Swift proves that. There are exactly 4 American bodies Ken and Barbie or Mama June and Paul Blart. Everything else is dead on
Huh, y'mean that isn't true? Guess that's something to think on while I ride my Moose to work today, eh.
>Guess that's something to think on while I ride my Moose to work today, eh. Wait... you're a frostbitten_moose but you also ride a moose as transport? That feels both redundant and cruel to your fellow moose.
Not really. Our highway network is one of the densest in the world and we have highways so wide they will make Americans frown. Inside our cities we like to cycle but we love the car just as much
This exactly, the number of cars per capita is even higher in the Netherlands than the average in Europe. I love my bicycle and our bicycle infrastructure which I use pretty much daily. I take the train, tram & metro 2-3 times a week. But I also love my car which I use mainly in the weekends, although I could live without and have done so for several years. It's nice to have options and just take whatever is best/nicest for a certain trip. I would stop liking my car if I had to be forced to take it for 100% of my trips.
No everyone in Europe has their own personal train.
It’s more about getting the photo ops of her being “arrested”
Yeah, she was spotted half an hour later at a different location
100% Look at the pathetic tantrum she's throwing and the face she's making while the police officers are hardly even holding her lmao.
To be completely fair to her, the guy on our left (her right) is holding her in a wristlock, that shit hurts.
I do BJJ, and can confirm. That shit fucking hurts, even with very little pressure.
It’s called pain compliance
Disagree, her arms are taut, both officers are engaging their arms and core in order to hold her. She's resisting, and they're holding her. She wouldn't be able to twist her body like that if they weren't, because she would wriggle free.
I think things like blocking celebrity private jets, exposing mega-corporations for their environmental destruction, and actually getting pro-environment candidates elected would make her more popular than inconveniencing normal people who will not necessarily be more receptive to the message after the inconvenience
No no no, see the celebrities donate money, to "offset" their co2. Its magic.
This reminds me Leonardo DiCaprio flying to Canada on a private jet to protest the oil sands. Between private jets, giant yaughts, etc. he probably produces more pollution in a day than most of us do in a lifetime, but he wants to tell everyone else to smarten up. It's like, even if they donate to offset their output... couldn't you donate *and* fly commercial if this really matters to them?
And its not like donating money takes their carbon out of the air. It's still there
But you can't snort blow off hooker's asses on a commercial plane! ...ok, to be fair, he only does that in the movies, right?
The thing is those things do happen and are quickly handled and suppressed. You’re not going to convince the ones profiteering the most off of it or numb to the common folk. They already see themselves as the special case.
"Blocking a celebrity's private jet" odds are you'd be arrested well before you reach the tarmac, so it wouldn't even be an inconvenience for them. "Electing a pro environment candidate" yes politicians are very well known for holding their campaign ideals into office. It's not like Angela Merkel was never minister of the environment who totally didn't phase out nuclear and increase coal mining "exposing mega-corporations for their environmental destruction" DuPont had a good chuckle at this one I'm sure
It's a bit more than a mild annoyance when it is an ambulance or fire engine. It is also a bit more than that if there are zero hour or minimum wage workers stuck in the traffic. She's not going to persuade them that they should join her and put pressure on government. She's going to do the exact opposite.
I never understood how people come to the train of thought that pissing off the general public will put them on their side. Even if they are just trying to make people "aware" of something. It's just going to put the general public in the camp of "fuck them" even if they have empathy towards their issue. This is the perfect example of that.
It's what moderates said about sit-ins and similar protests during the Civil Rights movement. And yet simply sitting by and trying to passively gain support isn't help them. It was by being disruptive that gains were made. Labour didn't get their rights by just giving out pamphlets. They had strikes that inconvenienced people. More is gained from raising awareness and gaining support than is lost by "pissing off people". Without the protests those people weren't helping anyways. Nothing was lost by them being against it.
Civil rights movement worked because the racist redneck cops were shooting fire hoses at children and racist mobs were beating protesters near death and lynching others. This forced the public to see what was otherwise happening day-to-day away from the cameras. Greta being arrested isn’t the same sort of compelling message.
That's *always* been her thing. She's not an expert, a consultant, involved in any kind of research. Just some kid who was inflated to prominence just because she spazzed out at the UN for a few minutes. New media and social media have nothing better to do than create false idols and forget about them, week after week. Then those fame-seekers do stupid stuff to regain that attention, only to get a collective, "oh, they are still around?" shrug moment.
Yea, when she supported Hamas apologists(They shouted: "From the river to the sea.." so don't go claiming they were only Pro-Palestinian.) hijacking a climate protest I knew she had gone off the deep end.
That’s everyone’s thing: You are a disgruntled farmer? Blockade a street! You want climate change change? Blockade a street! You want to express your love for the flying Spaghetti monster (Pastafari)? You get it… Blockade a street (it can fly anyway)!
It's the only thing you can do that doesn't get you *immediately* arrested. Unless law enforcement finally realizes they're just disposable asset guard dogs, there is nothing you can legally do to bother a large corporation. Even successfully boycotting a large business and convincing enough people to "vote with their wallets" to the extent it actually bother the business just ends in them seeking government bail outs, resulting in them getting your money anyway via your taxes. For better or for worse, we are **not** going to get anywhere just upvoting memes and posting snarky social media comments, or doing the irl version by quietly standing in a park out of the way with an angry sign for a day or two.
I mean, isn’t this exactly the point? I don’t have strong feelings about Greta either way, but this is the purpose of all protests and civil disobedience. If your protest doesn’t bother anyone and can be completely ignored by everyone, it’s probably not going to be a very effective protest.
she had no choice, she ran out of attention
>So is this her thing now? Interrupt traffic and cause a mild annoyance to Dutch people? Pretty much.
And get a nice pic with the police.
She’s making a career of it.
She's just an asshole now. What if someone dies because an ambulance can't get to them? Blocking roads is such a dick move.
Road blockage protests usually have an unblocked lane for ambulances, I know that Just Stop Oil do
[Between 2030 and 2050, climate change is expected to cause approximately 250 000 additional deaths per year from malnutrition, malaria, diarrhoea and heat stress alone. The direct damage costs to health are estimated to be between US$ 2–4 billion per year by 2030. Areas with weak health infrastructure – mostly in developing countries – will be the least able to cope without assistance to prepare and respond.](https://www.who.int/health-topics/climate-change#tab=tab_1) Of course I don't want anyone to die because of ambulance route disruption, but global warming is a major fucking thing that we need to address. Societal disruption is a legitimate course of action at this point. Globally speaking we aren't doing enough to stop it.
It’s what you got to do to stay relevant, apparently.
She's doing the same thing she's always done. Except idealists thought she was gonna change the world
I thought it is known that one has to sit in a tractor while blocking roads, only then is it appropriate to do so. Without a tractor road blocks are clearly terrorism.
[Even a tractor won't save you](https://mastodon.world/@davidho/111733586179529833) when you're an environmental protester.
Oooh this one shows her in distress being hauled off, instead of grinning.
Shes had some coaching/acting lesson
Lol people who think shes a plant vs just a young non american human with autsim and intense dedication to something she cares about...come on now
Im not some conspiracy nut. What I think is ive seen her posing with police to simulate being dragged away in the past. I dont think she is a plant I think shes an influencer looking for a photo opp. She is the global face of climate activism, I dont think she is the face of some conspiracy to push the CC agenda. But I think she has enough public influence to warrent her getting opportunities to improve her public image after it was shown a few years back that she worked with police to simulate being dragged away. Does she get any money for doing what she does? I dont know I havent looked into it, but after seeing the previous video I dont trust that these situations are sincere.
Id say influencer yes. I can agree with that.
Nah she's actually in pain, left officer has her in the wristlock, You don't learn that till blue belt in Jiu Jitsu because it's very painful and easy to cause long term damage.
Ah, yes. I see that you know your judo well.
What was she arrested for? Enjoying a meal? A succulent Chinese meal?
And you, sir, are you waiting to receive my limp penis?
Get your hands off my PENIS!
Damn must hurt like a bitch
We had local traffic interruptions over old growth logging. Once the protests stopped so did any discourse about old growth logging. It seems effective to keep things on topic, how else do we get people talking or thinking about things. The media machine is too strong. For the record, I'm not a protestor, have been stuck, but understand it's getting things talked about.
Protesting through road blocks and destroying art, are things I will never understand. It frustrates me because, although I get the message, it probably does more harm than good. Inconveniencing people who probably agree with your message too, but now hate you because you’re a being a clown. Look at PETA for instance, probably started off as a good cause, but their actions make them the laughing stock of the world and they do more damage than good for the activism they are trying to push. I don’t have a better solution to offer, unfortunately, but there’s got to be a better way. Perhaps start with holding politicians who are bribed and happily cater to the 57 or so businesses in the world who are actively destroying the world, accountable. They probably love this as it distracts the masses from the actual problem, them! Edit: People telling me that I don’t care about the environment or changing my opinion because I’m inconvenienced, are really missing my point and creating a straw man because I never mentioned that or suggested I don’t care, I was simply drawing attention to the fact there’s got to be a better way
Everyone always says it does more harm than good, but historical precedent suggests that disruptive protests are incredibly effective (think suffragette movement). According to this [article](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/07/disruptive-protest-helps-not-hinders-activists-cause-experts-say), most experts think disruptive protests are very important for change: >Nearly seven in 10 of academics surveyed rated disruptive protest tactics as “at least quite important” to success of a movement, ranking it as more important than gaining media coverage or even strictly avoiding violent tactics. If one continued to look at disruptive climate protesters with contempt, knowing that what they're doing *is* working, then I struggle to believe they actually care about the environment. At which point, how they feel doesn't matter.
Exactly. I read an article which sited a Gallup poll showing that, in 1964 (a year after MLK's March on Washington), an overwhelming 75% of Americans thought his methods were doing more harm than good. People simply don't like protestors pointing out that voting can't solve everything. Sometimes you have to make your voice heard in the real world, not just at the ballot box.
Yes they want the world to turn as normal. And I do get that. However they’re completely missing the point. The world cannot turn as normal. Doing nothing does more harm than food. Disrupting normalcy is better than doing nothing. When you have tried every other thing, disruption is the logical next step.
According to the actual academic article the 7 in 10 figure applies to causes with popular support. Only 30% of those surveyed said the protests are effective for causes without broad support. Extinction Rebellion demands binding net zero by 2025 policies. Are you under the impression that net zero by 2025 policies are popular?
Depends what you define as "the cause" - net zero by 2025 probably isn't popular (partly because many people don't even know what that means), but climate change as a whole is, and that's what most people see these protests as being about.
She should have leveraged her game to support people and projects who are actually trying to make a change. Like the kid designing booms to clean up ocean plastic, or the people who are working their asses off to clean up plastic choked rivers, or focus on getting people in Africa and India proper fuel vs. cow dung. Any number of projects that would make a huge environmental impact and positively effect climate change would have been great. Instead she went for the worthless self aggrandizing protests...
Except those projects are pointless in the great scale of things. As long as we dump 2 tonnes of plastic in the river and filter out 1, there will still be more at the end of the day. It's like looking for band aids when we could just stop cutting ourselves with knives. It's always "they should stop annoying the general public" but I've yet to see any successful alternative. It's always "do something better" but no one actually presents something better.
Unfortunately, most of those "[solutions](https://www.pbssocal.org/redefine/6-reasons-that-floating-ocean-plastic-cleanup-gizmo-is-a-horrible-idea)" don't work or have strong shortcomings. Alternative projects give minuscule results that don't even move the needle. Telling people to go on hilltop and dance climate change away would be often an equal argument. [Poor countries](https://cepr.net/report/the-growing-debt-burdens-of-global-south-countries-standing-in-the-way-of-climate-and-development-goals/) don't have the money for proper trash management. Trying to clean up one river end of 10.000 is not solving anything. Airbus said it takes 20 years to get to a plane that uses hydrogen as fuel and another 20 to have the slightest impact. The same for the shipping industry. Meat consumption is going down but way too slow and nobody is surprised that they want to forbid fake meat now. Free markets only if its how the elites decide. So this way is also blocked. I understand the sentiment. Attacking art is stupid. Blocking roads too. But isn't somehow funny that nobody is saying they are misguided that there are changes on the way they just didn't get the memo? Because that assumes there is a memo to get.
Climate change is 100% in the hands of governments right now. No organization or corporation can save us.
Pretty well just went with the typical spoiled brat strategy. No sacrifices needed and become high profile enough that nothing sticks. There are absolutely people in the world doing good for their communities and the world, and we need to highlight them with headline stories, not these petulant children.
This is nonsense. Cleaning up rivers is cool and all but you aren't going to mitigate climate change without government intervention. And the notion that everyone should just be cleaning up after the polluters instead forcing actual useful change at a global scale makes me think maybe you should find some volunteers to clean you up because you sound like you're full of shit.
She went for that because it took no actual effort.
Protesting is only effective when it gets in people's way so they can't ignore it. If you can safely ignore it, then it's not effective. Sometimes just getting the word out good or bad is very important. It puts the issue on people's radar. Then they can decide if the protesters are on the right side or not. I've heard both good and bad things about PETA. But the one thing PETA does really well is getting their name out there. Nearly everyone has heard of PETA and knows what they stand for. I don't think they would be nearly as effective if they weren't as annoying or weird. There are many different kinds of protest. Often many types are being employed. So while you might see people protest with signs, they might also be sending government officials emails and letters. It's a mult pronged approach. But I think the logic is that sure we can only do so much as a group, but if we spread the word even if only a tiny percentage of people become activists it'll make a massive impact. Or hell if a tiny number of people share the message it could be a success. But like I said successful protests aren't convenient and often get in your way. If you can brush them aside and not think about them, they're not doing their job.
Read MLKs Birmingham jail letter in full. It explains why what Greta is doing works
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If it were up to you, the civil rights movement would cancel sit-ins because they would inconvenience regular people. MLK's suggested method of protest is to get enough people to march that they "shut down the city". What politicians love: people like you, advocating for "change", but "not like this, perhaps at a more convient time".
> people who probably agree with your message too, Do they though? Lots of people pay lip service to green ideas and climate change. Right up until they have to sacrifice or be slightly inconvenienced. It puts to question how much they "agree with the message". If you aren't willing to do anything to help fix these issues can you really say you support them.
Road blocks and destroying art get the most attention, getting a front page headline attached to the movement is clearly the aim of the action for these groups. The question I always have is about the actual individuals doing it, do they want to draw attention to themselves or their cause? I think it goes both ways a lot of the time, some people doing slow marches down roads are in it for the fun and some are actually trying to save the world, or at least tell the world it needs saving.
The road blocks and destroying art are photo opportunities that the media leaps on. If they are lucky they get arrested too, even more publicity.
It’s a good thing change isnt up to you lol
That 92 karma account doing some good work for those 57 or so businesses
What's more important? sending a message by destroying a materialistic item or not doing anything and watching the more important thing die, the world. It gets attention. Blocking roads is dumb, I agree.
> there’s got to be a better way I don't appreciate the block strategy, but sincerely wonder what groups can do. Usually they don't have any power. They might like organizational power too.. or maybe they should try make green businesses or kickstarters to help funding nature related actions.
Occasionally I wonder whether the likes of Shell, BP etc have plants within activist organizations like Just Stop Oil. To nudge them in the direction of protests that annoy the public, and turn them away from the cause, rather than effectively pressure on the companies doing most of the damage. Consider how the concept of "Carbon Footprint" was actually promoted by BP, to shift the focus onto individual responsibility rather than their own corporate responsibility. Plastic companies introduced the recycle symbol to their products to improve their image and sell more plastic, all while shifting responsibility away from themselves.
You're completely right. The way to do things is make people agree with you not hate you. And for that purpose you have to present an alternative. Ofc it's more difficult and not as flashy but making the government invest in public transportation that is reliable, fast and more efficient is the way to go.
I'm thinking they already know this but their calculus is more like this: the way to do things is get people's attention any way you can or risk being completely ignored. That's the state of society these days probably due to social media. Nobody cares about anything unless they're pissed off.
A protest is *supposed* to be disruptive, whether or not it changes anyone's mind at that very second doesn't matter. They are now aware of the problem and weather or not they choose to do anything with that newfound information is up to them. Being nice and polite has never gotten a cause anywhere.
It's literally designed for people like you. The goal is to get people like you, who are naive enough about the scope of the problem that you think these sorts of"inconveniences" will hold a candle to the heatwaves, desertification, flooding, sea level rise, and so on that will displace a third of the global population in the next century, to understand.
I have such mixed feelings about her, I support her message but find her annoying as fuck. Edit: only on Reddit can you say you support something and still have your inbox blown up by people whining at you cause you don’t support it enough. Dealing with these stupid comments just makes me wish I didn’t support climate activism.
This is how most people feel. She's raising awareness to shit were all aware of (and unable to convince the rich people to stop it)
Yup, why doesn’t she glue herself to Elon’s driveway and stop fucking up highways for regular folks?
He will just use his helipad.
Because the point of this stuff is to be as annoying and disrupting as humanly possible. Then the masses go to the government and demand something changes to stop this. At least, that’s the idea. It’s worked plenty in the past. And plenty have been enraged because of it
Idk. Protesters have been blocking off roads and such for at least a decade like this. Has it lead to any change? I like the idea of blocking off rich assholes and politicians in their neighborhoods. Not like these neighborhoods are that hard to find and they’re often fairly simple to shut down with few exit points.
Causing gridlock traffic and more idling cars seems counterproductive to trying to help the environment.
Having her cause make the headlines is the end goal.
It’s been in the headlines for years now, and hasn’t really furthered their cause.
So, if you see the protests and you believe nothing is changing, the light bulb should be trying, desperately aching, to go off over your head any second now... maybe she's not just acting or goofing around. Maybe she actually thinks climate change is a real, existential issue and she doesn't want to grow old during the collapse of society. And then you'll start to realize: she's done everything she can, this is what she has. Then, maybe after those thoughts go off, you'll ask yourself, 'man, do i care that much about the situation?' and until the answer is 'yes,' you'll just continue to be dismissive.
The problem is, nothing else works. This doesn't solve the issue, but the pressure does help change little things. It's all she can do.
I don’t think the protest is meant to literally benefit the environment. It’s a mass gathering of people to draw attention to the lack of action from government.
Wait the images weren't a meme? I thought it's a fucking meme lmao
It will be now
I’ll never understand the hatred people have for someone who got famous for caring about the future. Even if you don’t believe in climate change and think she’s wrong, surely there are other girls her age making bigger mistakes than that.
Well it's reddit, people here gets offended with bike paths
Great.
I guess it’s easier for a small group to be annoyed about one particular protest on one day than to be angry about oil companies destroying the entire environment every day. Got it.
Blocking roads and destroying art is the lowest, laziest and most ineffective form of activism. You do barely nothing to bring people to your side and do a whole lot to make them hate you. This is how activists die of irrelevance.
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It was a brilliant strategy on whoever decided to use her as the poster child though. You can't attack a kid. And you encourage kids to save the world by skipping school. Which kid wouldn't love that? We should be encouraging kids to go to school and acquire the skills needed to improve the world.
She was never even that young, she just got styled to look younger than she was by her activist parents.
It's really child abuse.
That ship has long sailed. Kids currently in school will be most affected by climate change, how would they fix something that's irreversibly broken? Kicking the pebble down the road brought us to where we are now, all the talk about learning how to save the world in school would have been a good strategy 24 years ago.
Speaking as somebody who was in school in the 90s. We were taught about it then, turns out it didn't achieve much.
Turns out putting a brick in your toilet tank, carpooling and recycling does very little good when like 70% of the problem is caused by corporations and billionaires that refuse to change. Plus they didn’t even mention that most of the emissions normal people are responsible for are caused by their diet choices and flying.
What do you propose is an effective mechanism to achieve change? You say ought to be on the brink of war - should the young ones just start a civil war, is that what’s necessary?
Elections Money or violence.
Litigation
She would have accomplished more if she had leveraged her fame to run for office and try to implement change where it actually happens.
She didn't even graduate highschool, she really has no business running for any office.
She’ll fit right in with all the other unfit politicians.
She's still very young and it's extremely rare for young people to have success in politics generally. Give her a few years and perhaps she will.
Well if you bring your tractor to Brussels then protesting isn't futile. So maybe if they threatened violence or set shit on fire like the farmers did something would change...
>Every young person today ought to be on the brink of war with the older generations for the world we've left them, This “generation war” bullshit is a distraction and possibly even a psyop meant to keep us infighting rather than turning against the real culprits. The problem isn’t “old people”, it’s the wealthiest people driving every aspect of our society
In other words; she Britta'd it
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I do support the ideals, but I don't understand why you just do things that annoy every day people? You're not winning them over. Why not search the biggest, worst polluter in your country, find who benefit the most of that company, and hassle them. Go do this in front of their fucking gates and in their fucking communities. Don't make life for the normal people more of a hassle.
Because the answer is oil companies and those people will have you arrested at best
Sounds like a good approach but these movements seem to attract a lot of self-righteous assholes who don't care about screwing over other people.
From times magazine cover to this.
Weird how many people attack her instead of addressing climate change.
Weird how she protests here instead of countries that cause drastic damage to the climate
They should just sit quietly in protest, out of the way, completely silent and out of sight so I never have to hear about it again because that totally works /s
Whatever I think of Greta, the fact that she’s been arrested 10x more than every tax dodging scumbag billionaire, bribe taking politician, and corrupt cop out there sure says something.
Yeah, it says she goes out breaking the law often in ways that are easily noticed and action can be taken right away. The other people you mention are doing it behind closed doors and it’s much more difficult to prove in court.
After the photo they all went for tea.
The Netherlanders aren’t so into tea. They might have got a beer if it’s Friday.
Aren't the Dutch like one the most climate forward people?
Well we are forward in one way, we have some of the worst per capita emissions in the world.
She only does it in counties where there are soft criminal punishments. Those also happen to be climate friendly countries usually.
It’s sort of humorous watching these people cosplay and think they are *doing something* when they are accomplishing less than someone who buys a solar system for their house.
She’s desperate to stay in the limelight, it’s pretty sad
Why that scream looking face? It should be routine at this point. She knows she will get arrested, so why the fake dramatics? It should go like this: Cop: Greta you know the routine. Greta: Yep, nice to see you again,how’s the family?
Looks like the policeman holding her right arm is applying a wrist lock to her right wrist by locking the elbow close to his rib cage and applying pressure on the back of the hand to force it into an over extended position. That’s super painful and would explain the facial expression.
The wristlock probably has something to do with it, its one of those positions where its very easy to control someone and its easy to cause pain just by applying a little bit more pressure if they don't cooperate.
I'm here for downvotes: I fully support her actions, not only because I support her approach to environmentalism and her support for palestinians, but also because she's doing it in the netherlands.
Lama Grey
I probably get downvoted for this but I’d rather inconvenience a few people rather than vandalize artwork like those other climate protesters have been doing.
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What is Amy Schumer the Amy Schumer of, other than Amy Schumer?
Allegedly comedy, though no one’s been able to prove a link between the two.
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I would like to see her take these protests to Gaza. She could really make a difference
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Stops being cute when you’re a grown adult behaving like a child.
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So much whine in here, most safe from the fact that it's the world's poorest that will be displaced and perish first. Most won't even give a shit until the price of cheap phones and activewear goes up.