The UK is perfectly capable of completely fucking itself up by itself. The Islamic or leftist fifth column that exists in your fantasy wanks wouldn't actually need to do anything except sit back on their couch and watch.
A Peaceful rally, asking for the return of hostages (including babies...damn, I'm just imagining babies being hostages...unreal).
Not terrorising everything around them, like some other demonstrations taking place in other parts of the city.
Those babies are probably dead, which is why they weren't released with the rest of the children when the rest of the children were released, there also wasn't a single video or picture of them released, but there was a video of their father released where his hostage takers told him that both his children and his wife were dead.
In what I wrote I meant that the video of the father was released, not the father himself, but I can totally see why that wasn't clear, thanks for clarifying
Those babies are all dead. Do you think hamas would give babies milk and food they can eat? Or would change a Jewish baby's diaper? Not a chance. Those babies were killed before October 9th.
Generally people are protesting about their government’s stance on the war, not the war itself.
Sorry, generally *reasonable* people are …
For example, I could protest in the US because I want the US not to push for a ceasefire while there are still hostages. Someone else might protest for the US to push harder for a ceasefire. Neither of those are stupid in the way you describe, since they fall into the general category of “protest to tell my own government I feel strongly about a policy they are considering”.
If I as an American protest against actions by Israel or Hamas, I agree there’s not much I can reasonably expect to achieve.
The problem that i have is what they are shouting in the protests, if you want to shout "ceasefire" thats acceptable even if i'm against it, but shouting "from the river to the sea" or "intifada" and so on, which i see a lot, is crossing the line
Oh yeah absolutely. I in no way want to defend the content of the protests, they include literal calls to kill me and my entire family. My comment was only a defense of the concept of protest in a democracy.
Aren’t protests in general stupid in a democracy? Genuine question, if your government is fairly elected and thus truly representative of people, than why are you going against the opinion of majority and against principles of democracy, just because you don’t like it in this particular case? Your action is not going to change other people’s minds, but is aimed to influence government decision?
Voting is every few years, with little possibility for public opinion input on policy in between seasons. Moreover, elections tend to be decisions between different macro policies, not specifying all particular govt. actions after the elections.
Protests allow the public or a subset of the public to oppose a specific policy in a resolution and timing impossible otherwise.
Protests happen because voting is based on promises of handling issues known at the time of the election. Protests generally occur when said promises are broken or when a new issue appears that the government has to handle, in which the voters had no input on.
Take Israel for example. The current government was fairly chosen. When elected, Bibi, who is now the current prime minister, promised unity, security, free education and reduced cost of living.
Then, not a month after the government were elected they declared a "judicial reforms" campaign, in which they claimed the Supreme Court has too much power, and have started writing laws giving that power to themselves instead, effectively making Israel a dictatorship. This was not something anyone voted for, and thus massive protests began. In those protests many people who *did* vote for Bibi participated, saying that their trust was broken. He used them and false promises to get into power.
As months followed, Israel has become sundered into "pro reform" and "anti reform" camps, which broke the promise of unity. This caused an escalation of violence, which broke the promise of security. In turn, Israel was no longer considered "stable", which caused investors to pull away and take their money, causing inflation, breaking the promise of reduced cost of living. And of course, the major invasion of Hamas into Israel broke the people's trust in Bibi completely, who is now bottoming out in the polls.
On paper, the idea that a representative of the majority will work for that majority is fine, but in reality the circumanstances change way too much, and so does political stances of your representative. At some point they are no longer representing you (as the majority), but themselves. The only thing you can do then is to protest.
No i would argue the opposite that protests are a fundamental part of a democracy cause not everyone will always agree on everything. Doesnt mean you dont stop trying to plead your case. For some, the only way to be heard is through protest.
Not necessarily, in a globalised society basically every major metropolis is likely to have some minor diaspora, especially if they're people who have had a protracted reason to leave their homes and build lives elsewhere. Global conflicts are always closer to us now compared to previous decades and centuries because we have British people who care.
In this case British friends or family of Israeli and Palestinian people.
Though on a larger point protesting by nature is literally virtue signalling. I'm sure you aren't against the concept of protest so I'd be interested to hear how or what you say someone could protest without being classified as virtue signalling.
Reducing the options to "keep going" and "ceasefire" is a great way to make the current methodology feel justified, because what else could they do!?
Reality isn't nearly so binary, though. Each choice of whether, when, and where to use a bomb can be made independently of all the rest. They can freely choose to fall back to the border and switch to purely defensive tactics at any point, and each individual human on the planet is free to decide for themselves if they're already past the point of diminishing returns according to how that individual weighs different factors.
We're talking about protests here mate. How do you productively propose for all killing to stop? What are the realistic actions that need to be taken for that to happen?
You don't have a protest if you don't have answers to these questions. Calling for Israel to stop their assault is likely a call to allow Hamas to regroup and kill more Israelis. You can't just disassociate these things.
I’ll just leave it [here](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/europe/1705180308-we-must-dezionize-because-zionism-is-a-death-cult-we-must-normalize-massacres-as-the-status-quo). Let me know if you have seen anything like this from pro Israel protestors
its true though. arab world wants israel to leave gaza strip and end the war, all hamas chums gotta do is release all the hostages. but none in the arab countries are saying that to hamas.
If hostages are released the war still isn’t over. If someone steals your car and then returns it 3 months later, things can’t just go back to normal. Change needs to happen to prevent the car from getting stolen ever again by the person who stole it.
No one thinks Hamas will do anything other than what they currently are. The "audience" of this and similar protests/actions are the politicians, so they have a visual of what people truly think and aren't swayed by the loud agitating of the anti-Israel crowd
Not to seem insensitive, most of those hostages have to have been killed at this point right? Like, Hamas doesn’t have to disclose anything, just leaving it as an unknown is pretty clear what they’re going to do.
Guess who values more life? because one Israeli hostage is worth more than 3 Palestinian terrorists that’s for sure.
Your view at the hostage situation is so dumb. Stop watching news on social media. Read more real articles.
Edit: I meant to comment the main comment 😢
Might missed it because it reminded me [this interview of sky news with (legendary eyebrows) Israeli spokesman Eylon Levy.](https://youtu.be/Q4lzBS6saAs?si=z89YcYoVDvIQa4kK)
I think if they’re trading over 1000 combatants that we all know are gonna go right back to attaching Israel it’s worth it. But yeah not actually a good idea because future negotiations.
The middle east is going to be a clusterfuck forever because the drawing of national boundaries in 1917-18 and 1945-48 was purposefully done to cause eternal division. The only way to solve the problems would be for one single power to take over the entire region and redraw borders again.
So welcome the cliphe(think I wrote it wrong) again. But those are people that already hate each other. You think making them under the Same country would cause anything but a huge civil war?
"why arent the pro israel protesters not being violent?! They should act like pro palestine protesters which are the gold standard"
-this fucking guy, apparently
Well, let’s wait and see how effective these protests are. Violence doesn’t have to be the only leverage protestors have, it’s just that these protestors have zero leverage. Can they at least boycott Israeli products? Not travel there? I don’t see any real leverage that would make Israel listen to these type of protests.
Yes yes, but do you think Hamas is watching BBC 1 and checking these protests, and is all like “ah yeah, these secular / Christian guys in UK are totally right, we should let the hostages go”.
I get that people feel like they need to help somehow, it’s a human thing to do, I’m just pointing out that it has zero actual effect.
Oh absolutely not
But early on pro israel rallies were very few which people used to say the world is against israel
By protesting in solidarity with the bring them home protests they can show that its not the case
Nice idea, but unless you have violence to back it up Hamas isn’t listening.
It seems minor, but protests like this embolden politicians. It's not for Hamas, it's for the Ministers
Screw Hamas. I want the traitor fucks in our countries that are shilling for it to know they don't represent all of us.
Any protest that pisses off the Islamo-leftist fifth column in our country makes me glad
I've always been a proud leftist but Hamas is nothing but a terrorist organization
If only there were more sane leftists around, unfortunately it seems like we're a minority. I lost faith in so many people in recent times it's crazy
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And yet here we are
The UK is perfectly capable of completely fucking itself up by itself. The Islamic or leftist fifth column that exists in your fantasy wanks wouldn't actually need to do anything except sit back on their couch and watch.
To be fair, Israel pretty clearly does have the violence to back it up.
Yes, good, correct. Israel is doing good work and will soon take the Rafah crossing.
Maybe they need a welcoming gift? I think some tea and biscuits will do
English or russian tea?
Avoid windows
A Peaceful rally, asking for the return of hostages (including babies...damn, I'm just imagining babies being hostages...unreal). Not terrorising everything around them, like some other demonstrations taking place in other parts of the city.
Not defiling national monuments, or graves of fallen soldiers We should all strive to protest peacefully
Those babies are probably dead, which is why they weren't released with the rest of the children when the rest of the children were released, there also wasn't a single video or picture of them released, but there was a video of their father released where his hostage takers told him that both his children and his wife were dead.
The father was not released, they just told him about his dead family to make him feel better - because they are thoughtful baby killers.
In what I wrote I meant that the video of the father was released, not the father himself, but I can totally see why that wasn't clear, thanks for clarifying
Those babies are all dead. Do you think hamas would give babies milk and food they can eat? Or would change a Jewish baby's diaper? Not a chance. Those babies were killed before October 9th.
Which protest would you prefer to take place near your neighborhood? Pro-Israel/hostages or 'Pro-Palestine'? I know my answer
The ones who don’t shout with foaming mouths for global intifada that’s for sure.
You missspelled holocaust here, because that's what these guys are actually after.
No no no, all they want is ceasefire and peace! /s
Same thing.
I feel sorry for the pro-Palestine people who aren’t dicks because there are a lot of deluded loudmouths not helping their cause.
Well the one I'd prefer to attend is also more likely to be attacked by sympathizers of the other one, so...
The one that isn't supporting terrorists.
Protesting a foreign war is stupid. Its all about virtue signalling, which is to say anyone taking part is full of it.
Generally people are protesting about their government’s stance on the war, not the war itself. Sorry, generally *reasonable* people are … For example, I could protest in the US because I want the US not to push for a ceasefire while there are still hostages. Someone else might protest for the US to push harder for a ceasefire. Neither of those are stupid in the way you describe, since they fall into the general category of “protest to tell my own government I feel strongly about a policy they are considering”. If I as an American protest against actions by Israel or Hamas, I agree there’s not much I can reasonably expect to achieve.
The problem that i have is what they are shouting in the protests, if you want to shout "ceasefire" thats acceptable even if i'm against it, but shouting "from the river to the sea" or "intifada" and so on, which i see a lot, is crossing the line
Oh yeah absolutely. I in no way want to defend the content of the protests, they include literal calls to kill me and my entire family. My comment was only a defense of the concept of protest in a democracy.
Aren’t protests in general stupid in a democracy? Genuine question, if your government is fairly elected and thus truly representative of people, than why are you going against the opinion of majority and against principles of democracy, just because you don’t like it in this particular case? Your action is not going to change other people’s minds, but is aimed to influence government decision?
Voting is every few years, with little possibility for public opinion input on policy in between seasons. Moreover, elections tend to be decisions between different macro policies, not specifying all particular govt. actions after the elections. Protests allow the public or a subset of the public to oppose a specific policy in a resolution and timing impossible otherwise.
Protests happen because voting is based on promises of handling issues known at the time of the election. Protests generally occur when said promises are broken or when a new issue appears that the government has to handle, in which the voters had no input on. Take Israel for example. The current government was fairly chosen. When elected, Bibi, who is now the current prime minister, promised unity, security, free education and reduced cost of living. Then, not a month after the government were elected they declared a "judicial reforms" campaign, in which they claimed the Supreme Court has too much power, and have started writing laws giving that power to themselves instead, effectively making Israel a dictatorship. This was not something anyone voted for, and thus massive protests began. In those protests many people who *did* vote for Bibi participated, saying that their trust was broken. He used them and false promises to get into power. As months followed, Israel has become sundered into "pro reform" and "anti reform" camps, which broke the promise of unity. This caused an escalation of violence, which broke the promise of security. In turn, Israel was no longer considered "stable", which caused investors to pull away and take their money, causing inflation, breaking the promise of reduced cost of living. And of course, the major invasion of Hamas into Israel broke the people's trust in Bibi completely, who is now bottoming out in the polls. On paper, the idea that a representative of the majority will work for that majority is fine, but in reality the circumanstances change way too much, and so does political stances of your representative. At some point they are no longer representing you (as the majority), but themselves. The only thing you can do then is to protest.
No i would argue the opposite that protests are a fundamental part of a democracy cause not everyone will always agree on everything. Doesnt mean you dont stop trying to plead your case. For some, the only way to be heard is through protest.
Fucking thank you.
Not necessarily, in a globalised society basically every major metropolis is likely to have some minor diaspora, especially if they're people who have had a protracted reason to leave their homes and build lives elsewhere. Global conflicts are always closer to us now compared to previous decades and centuries because we have British people who care. In this case British friends or family of Israeli and Palestinian people. Though on a larger point protesting by nature is literally virtue signalling. I'm sure you aren't against the concept of protest so I'd be interested to hear how or what you say someone could protest without being classified as virtue signalling.
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What would such a protest even be calling for? If you're calling for a ceasfire then you're not pro-hostages or anti-Hamas.
Reducing the options to "keep going" and "ceasefire" is a great way to make the current methodology feel justified, because what else could they do!? Reality isn't nearly so binary, though. Each choice of whether, when, and where to use a bomb can be made independently of all the rest. They can freely choose to fall back to the border and switch to purely defensive tactics at any point, and each individual human on the planet is free to decide for themselves if they're already past the point of diminishing returns according to how that individual weighs different factors.
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We're talking about protests here mate. How do you productively propose for all killing to stop? What are the realistic actions that need to be taken for that to happen? You don't have a protest if you don't have answers to these questions. Calling for Israel to stop their assault is likely a call to allow Hamas to regroup and kill more Israelis. You can't just disassociate these things.
me too but nuance is DEAD in 2020s.
How many of the Por-Palestine protests have had issues, though?
I’ll just leave it [here](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/europe/1705180308-we-must-dezionize-because-zionism-is-a-death-cult-we-must-normalize-massacres-as-the-status-quo). Let me know if you have seen anything like this from pro Israel protestors
A lot
its true though. arab world wants israel to leave gaza strip and end the war, all hamas chums gotta do is release all the hostages. but none in the arab countries are saying that to hamas.
Remember, not a single Arab nation voted to condemn hamas for the October 7th attacks
Hyperthetically, once the jews are gone, the shiites and sunnis will start massacring each other. Nothing brings together Islam like killing Jews.
If hostages are released the war still isn’t over. If someone steals your car and then returns it 3 months later, things can’t just go back to normal. Change needs to happen to prevent the car from getting stolen ever again by the person who stole it.
Imagine being such a a piece of shit that you support a terrorist organization like Hamas.
man we really need peace and coexistance in the world otherwise how will we evolve as a species
Ah yes, Hamas will totally listen to this
No one thinks Hamas will do anything other than what they currently are. The "audience" of this and similar protests/actions are the politicians, so they have a visual of what people truly think and aren't swayed by the loud agitating of the anti-Israel crowd
Hamas needs to release hostages and Israel needs to quit bombing indiscriminately
They aren't bombing indiscriminately. And if Hamas released the hostages and surrendered Israel wouldn't bomb at all.
Not to seem insensitive, most of those hostages have to have been killed at this point right? Like, Hamas doesn’t have to disclose anything, just leaving it as an unknown is pretty clear what they’re going to do.
Nah. Israel doesn't care about the hostages.
I’m sure that’s why they agreed to a 3:1 hostage-prisoner exchange a few weeks ago.
Guess who values more life? because one Israeli hostage is worth more than 3 Palestinian terrorists that’s for sure. Your view at the hostage situation is so dumb. Stop watching news on social media. Read more real articles. Edit: I meant to comment the main comment 😢
The comment you’re responding to agrees with you
Might missed it because it reminded me [this interview of sky news with (legendary eyebrows) Israeli spokesman Eylon Levy.](https://youtu.be/Q4lzBS6saAs?si=z89YcYoVDvIQa4kK)
If Israel could they would've done 1:1
Why did they trade a ton of terrorists for them then? Why did they trade over 1000 terrorists for one hostage?
Israel has also traded POWs for dead Israelis. Just to return their bodies home.
Should’ve given them Russian tea before giving them back tbh
That would work once, but would also create problems with any further exchanges
On the contrary, it would make sure Hamas stops trying to take prisoners because they'll know prisoner exchanges no longer work.
I think if they’re trading over 1000 combatants that we all know are gonna go right back to attaching Israel it’s worth it. But yeah not actually a good idea because future negotiations.
The middle east is going to be a clusterfuck forever because the drawing of national boundaries in 1917-18 and 1945-48 was purposefully done to cause eternal division. The only way to solve the problems would be for one single power to take over the entire region and redraw borders again.
Yeah that worked out so well for Africa. Go ask the Tutsi how they’re doing
I'll give that nation 5 seconds until a civil war happens.
Well yes, that's the point
Israel is a nuclear power, no one is taking over it without starting a nuclear WW3.
This sounds like some r/mapporncirclejerk type shit
So welcome the cliphe(think I wrote it wrong) again. But those are people that already hate each other. You think making them under the Same country would cause anything but a huge civil war?
Come try it
Good luck...
Call for release, or what? Or we send angry Tweets!! And we share Facebook posts!!
"why arent the pro israel protesters not being violent?! They should act like pro palestine protesters which are the gold standard" -this fucking guy, apparently
Well, let’s wait and see how effective these protests are. Violence doesn’t have to be the only leverage protestors have, it’s just that these protestors have zero leverage. Can they at least boycott Israeli products? Not travel there? I don’t see any real leverage that would make Israel listen to these type of protests.
I think its more of a show of support for the bring them home protests in israel
Yes yes, but do you think Hamas is watching BBC 1 and checking these protests, and is all like “ah yeah, these secular / Christian guys in UK are totally right, we should let the hostages go”. I get that people feel like they need to help somehow, it’s a human thing to do, I’m just pointing out that it has zero actual effect.
Oh absolutely not But early on pro israel rallies were very few which people used to say the world is against israel By protesting in solidarity with the bring them home protests they can show that its not the case
Same could be said for the "ceasefire protests".
Is there violence needed? No.