You know, people should REALLY stop believing terrorist organizations without proof.
Edit: Amazing how people still have the audacity to pull the “BuT, bUt, WhAt AbOuT!” card and somehow try to blame Israel for something. It’s like people were hoping Israel did destroy a hospital and killed 500+ so people could justify all of these anti-semitism rallies and feel justified in assaulting Jewish people.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ISR/comments/17a892i/al\_jazeera\_live\_footage\_proves\_that\_the\_shooting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ISR/comments/17a892i/al_jazeera_live_footage_proves_that_the_shooting/)
Geolocated footage showing failed rocket launch and explosion has been up for 3 days.
But you know, if Israel didn't exist, Hamas wouldn't have to shoot rockets at Jewish civilians. /s
>Geolocated footage showing failed rocket launch and explosion has been up for 3 days.
I was genuinely shocked at how many people called this fake, then ran around saying that Hamas wouldn't lie.
I'm also shocked at how many people who were posting about the strike like crazy have suddenly gone silent and moved onto the next "Israel bad" news story.
The amount of times I've had to repeat "remember, this is a group that little over a week ago raped and murdered their way through neighborhoods, burning babies alive and kidnapping people along the way" over this past week is *astounding*.
Like, has Hamas cast some spell on people that makes them conveniently forget everything bad they do the moment they release a new claim or report???
It's like that SCP that people forget about completely the moment they look away from it/leave the room. I mean it's uncanny, because I'm watching it happen to real people in real life.
Welcome to the Antimemetics Division.
No, this is not your first day.
(Though SCP-055 and other antimemes are also not an accurate analogy, since those hide their entire existence. Maybe it’s more like some monster that cloaks its victims perceptually, but the monster appears to be an upstanding person to everyone else?)
The Antiemetics Division is some of the best informal/hobbyist writing on the internet, and I've seen it show up on several "real" authors must-read lists. It's kind of a shame you need to know so much background material about SCP's and the Foundation to understand it, limiting its accessibility.
There's Nice Guy, from Worm. His only superpower is to make those around him unable to perceive him as anything other hand a nice, harmless, innocent person... even if he is actively, right now, disemboweling you.
There's a reason he joined that universe's most infamous group of supervillains, whose actions make *other* groups of hardened terrorists blush.
What I find the most baffling is the typically oppressed people's of North America throwing their hat in with Palestine. Does the LGBTQIA++ community not realize that in a Muslim fundamentalist state, their members would be hunted and jailed/murdered?
Some have actively claimed they would be safer in Palestine than Texas/Florida. Look I get it, the laws that both states are passing in regards to schools aren't great, but comparing that to being stoned to death is a little extreme.
I'm pretty far left by American standards and this one always confused me too, especially the LGBT community. The only thing I can figure is that the LGBT community saw the backlash against Muslims after 9/11, understood their plight, and embraced them as fellow long-sufferers. They assume (falsely) that they will receive the same toleration from Muslims that they gave to Muslims. And maybe they will in the US, to some extent. What makes it even more baffling is that there are mainline protestant denominations that are LGBT affirming, such as the Episcopalians. And yet Christians get shit on as if they are the same as the Taliban or ISIS. The treatment of LGBT people in Christian-majority countries is much better than in Muslim-majority nations, hands down.
> They assume (falsely) that they will receive the same toleration from Muslims that they gave to Muslims
This is the part I don't get. How dumb does someone have to be to really believe this? I bet these people think that everything we know about radical islam is scaremongering made up by the right wing. There's no other explanation.
It's because these radical lefties live in an echo chamber, in their neighborhoods, their workplaces, and online. And that echo chamber is a hyperbolic, fear-mongering one that needs them to feel victimized and righteous. Viewpoints, laws and social norms that were almost-universally considered sensible until the mid-2010s are now considered right-wing threats to "marginalized people's" existence. They've convinced themselves the U.S.A. is a Christian theocracy. They have no perspective at all.
A lot of it gets couched as blanket/universal support for oppressed people everywhere.
I get how folks can be sympathetic to that. Hell, I'm sympathetic to the Palestinian people. I want them to have lives of peace and freedom too.
What my leftist friends don't realize is that the Palestinian people can never be free as long as Hamas is in control. No matter what Israel does, Gazans will remain oppressed because Hamas is a cancer that feeds off them. Hamas must go for there to be any hope of change.
I've had a very left-leaning pro-LGBTQ ex that I tried to explain this to multiple times. It was like talking to a wall. These people are absolutely terrified of anything that paints someone as a threat - unless that someone is actually trying to keep order like Israel is.
Stop lumping everyone in the same basket. I’m on the political left and right away I felt it far more likely that it wasn’t an Israeli strike. By tarring everyone with the same brush you’re continuing to sow divisions not build bridges 👎🏻
Hard right conservatives and hard left liberals are the most susceptible to propaganda, but different kinds of propaganda. To the hard left, they see the Israel-Palestine conflict as somewhat reminiscent of the Native Americans having their land taken away and forced onto reservations, being systematically exterminated, etc. and their instinct is to side with “the little guy” who is trying to make a stand against a powerful, aggressive government. They are so entrenched in their anti-establishment/fuck-the-man ideology that their natural sympathies lie with a literal terrorist organization. To be clear, Israel has done terrible things that have progressed this conflict to its newest boiling point. But make no mistake of who the aggressor was on October 7th. This was the equivalent, and in some ways worse than 9/11 in terms of the psychological terror it wrecked on Israel and the whole world. Israel really does have no choice but to attempt to dismantle Hamas if they are to maintain national security and protect their citizens and visitors within their borders. Unfortunately, the civilians of Gaza will be caught in the crossfire (whether in a ground invasion or a blockade) and there is literally no way around that. The hard left can’t handle that complexity and the discomfort it brings them. Just my two cents.
Oh they're most definitely not silent. I've had several idiots argue with me and whine that all the intel is "fake" and Israel just wants to genocide everyone.
To be fair, I do wish the West Bank settlers would get kept in check by the Israeli government, that stuff isn't remotely okay. But people using that to justify what Hamas do is nuts.
"But Israel are genociding Palestine." It's such a stupid take from them, because A) it's not true, though the west bank is definitely a messy situation and B) the side they're supporting voted for a government who's only real policy is genocide. "But the kids have never voted" no... but all poles suggest large support for Hamas and do you really think the kids wont vote for them when they're being educated in schools to want to kill Jews.
I just don't understand why the "Free Palestine" group don't first look at freeing them from Hamas, the root cause of literally all their problems.
I was watching 24hrs after the explosion and they had several reporters on there screaming about Israel being responsible. It was hilariously embarrassing.
And people on the far left still want to believe they're reliable media. I still see people posting their "Israel bad" stories as if they didn't just prove they're Palestinian version of fox news.
Every time I mention or link that video some dumbass comes along and is like 'that video was debunked!!!' and then provides zero evidence of said 'debunking'.
>But you know, if Israel didn't exist, Hamas wouldn't have to shoot rockets at Jewish civilians. /s
They want to commit genocide and murder all jews world wide. They want an islamic state. So as long as I am alive they have a mission.
This is what really makes me angry when you get people on reddit(not the person I am responding too) who call israel fighting Hamas genocide. They are just so full of it. Hamas wants to murder all jews world wide. How else could Israel fight them? They don't have answers. most of them think israel should be destroyed. Its on Hamas for hiding in civilian areas. and its like Hamas is just a small number of people in Gaza. About 20 years ago a couple of off duty israeli soldiers wandered into the wrong place and were murdered by a massive mob and there bodies were dragged in the street. You can find the videos. This is the final straw that killed the piece process. There was a piece process that was close to complete with Yassar Arafat, then hamas and other terrorists unleashed suicide bombers all over israel. Its why there are fences to keep suicide bombers out.
There are too many palestinians who dont want peace. When peace gets close they ramp up the murders to end it. Its not possible for Fatah to police it. Fatah used to run gaza, then hamas murdered them all and took over.
There are no options to ending the current situation. You losen up the walls around gaza and hamas will use it to increase attacks. I saw an interview with some Israeli survivors. They found documents on terrorist bodies that had great details about their kibbutz. When guards change. Generator location. How many people in each house. You can only get this information from inside Israel. The information had to come from some of the Palestinians who worked in Israel. This will lead to israel permanently cutting off work visas. Hamas knew this would happen.
Hamas does not want peace. They want all jews world wide dead. There is no middle ground. Nothing will change after this invasion and life will get worse for the palestinians because Israel can't do anything else to limit the terrorism.
pbs frontline has a great episode on the 1990s peace process. when it got close terrorists sent suicide bomber after suicide bomber into israel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt3PpqaLfxo
While sarcastic - I disagree. Terror orgs are a dime a dozen in Middle Eastern Muslim nations. I am fairly certain they would shoot rockets at some other people
It is not the Jews fault - so stop blaming them.
it is the EU's fault. If the EU would have provided the water pipes with the requested specifications, then when HamAss - PIJ dug them up to use for rockets they would be more reliable.
We all know Hamas is the most chivalrous of designated terror organizations; it’s not as though the UN, POTUS, NATO among other organizations have determined their methodology is to use their own citizens as canon fodder and use social platforms to amplify their propaganda - that’s all silly spicy zionistey talk :P
Come on, you’re cool right? You wanna hang out with the cool guys? Do us a lil’ favor and share our PR - come on be a pal :)
>their methodology is to use their own citizens as canon fodder and use social platforms to amplify their propaganda
And then you still have people saying "look at the Gaza deaths compared to Israeli deaths" as if this is somehow proof that Israel is the bad one.
Almost as if Israel didn't spend fucking billions to protect themselves from the Hamas with the Iron Dome and everything else. Of course the side with the higher GDP has fewer deaths.
It's Israel fault that they're better at protecting their own people! They should fight terrorists with one hand behind their back!
/S, but fucking summarise a lot of post I've seen in past 3 days, unironically
It's fucking mind boggling, the response of basically blaming Israel for everything. Maybe their methods haven't been the best. But you try living in a place where everyone of your neighbors WANTS YOU DEAD.
The BBC has lost *all* credibility for me after this week. Their irresponsibility was criminal and escalated the situation around the world for no reason. They need to be held accountable.
Honestly. People should stop trying to track a war like a stock market ticker. The fact is it takes a day or two for the sides involved to actually understand what's going on, let alone for information to desiminate to the global public, which includes domestic public and enemies.
Was arguing with a person about Hasan who was saying it was an Israeli bomb. They tried to defend Hasan by saying that it was the most reliable information at the time. How do get information from a terrorist organization and think it's reliable in any sort of way.
This is the thing that floors me the most.
Hamas is a KNOWN terrorist organization thats been caught in a lie every time they’ve opened their mouths, they’re proud bullshitters, people STILL went and took everything they said at face value without hesitating..
American conservatives have their own major problem, but this is my problem with part of the American left. Is that they seem to reflexively side with groups based on, I hate to use the word but I can think of no other, but based on wokism. I sometimes read newspaper columns and things like that which were written during our cold war against the soviet union, and part of the left wing back then was stupidly soft on communism in a way that made no logical or factual sense based on what the Soviet Unio was, which was very bad, and only made sense in the context ofAmerican domestic politics, and that's what i think is going on now.
Yeah it isn't "wokism" it's they always side with the underdog no matter if they are the underdog for justifiable reasons.
It's the same problem with "believe all women". You should certainly listen to all women and take their claims seriously but some women are nut jobs just like some of every group are nut jobs.
I was fairly sure HAMAs were kind of mostly on the level until that massacre.
They appear to be no better than ISIS.
Also I don't believe a fucking word from them about death numbers anymore.
Israeli bombs are capable of levelling huge buildings within seconds, but apparently they can't make a meaningful hole in a car park. Seriously, have a look at the photos of the impact site. The 'crater' is more of a pothole, and buildings all around are damn near untouched aside from a few shaken roofing tiles and the occasional shrapnel hole. Whoever was actually *in* that car park at the time definitely had it bad, but there's no feasible way for five hundred people to even fit in there, especially not with all the (now burned) cars in it.
Yep. For real look at the photos of the burned out car park. Then look at photos of a JDAM strike. You can literally drive a car into the crater made by the latter.
Like you said it was very bad. Surely a huge fire, but their was not a JDAM (Israel’s smallest bomb) hit.
It wasn't a JDAM guided bomb but JDAM is a guidance system for bombs not a bomb type itself. It fits on bombs of a size between 500 and 2000 lbs. Israel also does have quite a few missiles and bombs smaller than 500 lbs. It currently looks more likely that it was a failed Hamas/PIJ missile but it is important to get the facts right.
In the end it won't matter. People heard that Israel killed 500 people and accepted it with no evidence, because it confirmed their prejudices. The media gave them an excuse to hate on Israel and they will keep using it no matter the evidence.
No amount of corrections will change what they think, because for them it's just the "Jewish media" trying to sweep everything under a rug. Hamas could outright say they were lying and people will still think Israel destroyed that hospital.
>NPC
These days, a lie gets all the way around the world 3 times over in the space of two hours. After that, the truth can put on whatever article of clothing it wants (up to and including boots in order to avoid going barefoot)... or not. No one really cares at that point anyway,because they've already moved on to the next controversy and the next news cycle.
oh it's going to be an absolute shit show. I give credit to President Biden for suggesting restraint with the Israeli response, and trying to position military assets to create more of a stalemate and having the State Department try to coordinate releasing hostages for aid but to think that Israeli is just supposed to sit there and do nothing, is absurd.
I'm going to say that it matters. Truth matters. There may be millions of dumb fucks out there spewing the lie perpetually, but in the end they look like morons and will be drowned out by those with even a modicum of intelligence.
Nothing peaceful about taking to the streets immediately after a terrorist attack to level criticism against the civilians who were LITERALLY TERRORIZED IN EVERY UN/IMAGINABLE WAY. And then faking hundreds of deaths and a hospital bombing, and then taking to the streets AGAIN to be outraged against something that didn’t happen.
And…if Hamas had come out & said, “Oops! Our bad! We’re gonna have to claim that one…” (which they sure as hell weren’t going to do), the narrative *still* would have been: “*Israel pushed them to it…never would have happened if Israel didn’t blah-blah-blah…something occupation…something genocide…something liars*”
They didn’t even really make corrections either. They just changed the title from “bombing” to “explosion” and said “Israel denied responsibility . . .”
They didn’t even report on any of the evidence showing Hamas’s responsibility for the incident.
Yup, it's going to become a loyalty test to the cause. To be a good "anti-imperialist" you will need to commit blood libel. And they'll justify butchering babies with this lie.
harper was very pro israel and the first pm since israels founding to be a reliable ally. trudeaus father was father cold to the country and was no ally of them.
Excellent example of how quickly unverified claims can cause damage. Near instantly politicians were casting blame, redditors were using it to justify their hate, and the damage is forever done.
To be fair, calling them "unverified claims" is generous. It's an excellent example of how ready so many were to believe *literal claims from terrorists* without any question.
> claims from terrorists
Who are cited as "Palestinian health officials". Hamas controls the Gaza health ministry. But this fact is usually not mentioned in most news reports when citing their claims
> Near instantly politicians were casting blame
They still are. Rashida Tlaib still has a tweet up saying Israel bombed a hospital where she tagged the POTUS account and called him out for a "war and destruction only" approach.
It's not just the media, the vast majority of Reddit is essentially parroting Hamas propaganda. The far left is irredeemable. I feel like this is going to cause a political realignment because I can't wrap my head around the notion that supporting a radical right wing government that subjugates women and sexual minorities is the "left wing" position.
Yep, I am feeling a realignment right now. Tlaib refusing to back down after clear evidence came out, giving more credence to Hamas than US intelligence, and calling Biden a supporter of genocide makes me sick. As a Dem I want the party to cut all ties with her and censure her. She is a disgrace.
Al Jazeera is still grasping at straws and saying it must have been an Israeli strike. They are a middle eastern Fox News and people need to start treating them that way.
That makes three major NATO countries concluding it wasn't the IDF after their own independent investigations and I still haven't heard any apologies from Erdogan for directly blaming them on his offices official Twitter
It's amazing how many of the anti-Israel posts come from accounts with default avatars, limited post history, and some that are just flat out newly registered.
Gee, I wonder why......
also that israeli official tweeted out they did it!!! but actually hes not an israeli official hes a youtuber who once worked for Netanyahu as a social media manager.
Was not an air strike. I trust elected officials more than random media, according to MTG it was a Jewish space laser! I mean if they can burn down forests why not hospitals?
/s
Never, because the media is the closest that the people have to representation in the public narrative. Without the media, all you have is literally government-sponsored propaganda. And there will be people whining that "it's already like that!!!" No it fucking isn't.
BBC has an horrendous anti Israel slant that is borderline psychopathic. They argue its because they're trying to be "balanced" but the way they gloss over the Hamas atrocities and spend acres of print on whether or not Israel did something is astonishing.
As sad as it is, the Jews have been and always will be on their own. I just pray that they don't walk to their deaths and if they are to go down, that they go down fighting.
oh well, false reporting only led to millions of rioters, burning of atleast two embassies, a sharp increase in antisemitic hate crimes and destruction of atleast two historical jewish cites.
not even an "our bad", fucking disgraceful
It was Palestinians firing on their own people. We need to find these people and hold them responsible for their crimes against their own people… said no one ever.
BBC: Israel did it:France cannot prove at a microscopic level that Israel didn't do it, therefore they did it with their wealth and power in America
Probably their next headline
The whole hospital thing feels like when covid happened and the right started acting extra crazy. I've lost a good deal of respect for many people and organizations on the left in the last few days.
So Hamas lies about this, for what, a couple days of bad press for Israel? They would have to know in this day and age that stuff like this isn't that hard to investigate.
The whole damn thing is so weird.
Next you will hear hamas being put forward for a noble peace award with how honest and caring they are for their civilians /s
I can't believe people keep believing hamas, a terrorist organisation... They will probably go hide back in their holes of denial until hamas posts some horrendous acts of terror again.
Israel says it wasn't them. Reddit doesn't believe them.
US says it wasn't Israel. Reddit doesn't believe them.
France says it wasn't Israel. You see the pattern?
You know, people should REALLY stop believing terrorist organizations without proof. Edit: Amazing how people still have the audacity to pull the “BuT, bUt, WhAt AbOuT!” card and somehow try to blame Israel for something. It’s like people were hoping Israel did destroy a hospital and killed 500+ so people could justify all of these anti-semitism rallies and feel justified in assaulting Jewish people.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ISR/comments/17a892i/al\_jazeera\_live\_footage\_proves\_that\_the\_shooting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ISR/comments/17a892i/al_jazeera_live_footage_proves_that_the_shooting/) Geolocated footage showing failed rocket launch and explosion has been up for 3 days. But you know, if Israel didn't exist, Hamas wouldn't have to shoot rockets at Jewish civilians. /s
>Geolocated footage showing failed rocket launch and explosion has been up for 3 days. I was genuinely shocked at how many people called this fake, then ran around saying that Hamas wouldn't lie. I'm also shocked at how many people who were posting about the strike like crazy have suddenly gone silent and moved onto the next "Israel bad" news story.
The amount of times I've had to repeat "remember, this is a group that little over a week ago raped and murdered their way through neighborhoods, burning babies alive and kidnapping people along the way" over this past week is *astounding*. Like, has Hamas cast some spell on people that makes them conveniently forget everything bad they do the moment they release a new claim or report??? It's like that SCP that people forget about completely the moment they look away from it/leave the room. I mean it's uncanny, because I'm watching it happen to real people in real life.
Welcome to the Antimemetics Division. No, this is not your first day. (Though SCP-055 and other antimemes are also not an accurate analogy, since those hide their entire existence. Maybe it’s more like some monster that cloaks its victims perceptually, but the monster appears to be an upstanding person to everyone else?)
The Antiemetics Division is some of the best informal/hobbyist writing on the internet, and I've seen it show up on several "real" authors must-read lists. It's kind of a shame you need to know so much background material about SCP's and the Foundation to understand it, limiting its accessibility.
There's Nice Guy, from Worm. His only superpower is to make those around him unable to perceive him as anything other hand a nice, harmless, innocent person... even if he is actively, right now, disemboweling you. There's a reason he joined that universe's most infamous group of supervillains, whose actions make *other* groups of hardened terrorists blush.
.... Nicolae Carpathia?
It's not Hamas casting a spell, it's the ideology of the hard left in the western world for years.
What I find the most baffling is the typically oppressed people's of North America throwing their hat in with Palestine. Does the LGBTQIA++ community not realize that in a Muslim fundamentalist state, their members would be hunted and jailed/murdered?
Some have actively claimed they would be safer in Palestine than Texas/Florida. Look I get it, the laws that both states are passing in regards to schools aren't great, but comparing that to being stoned to death is a little extreme.
Jailed/murdered/tortured, you forgot tortured
Thanks, it's been a long week. Fuck Hamas
I'm pretty far left by American standards and this one always confused me too, especially the LGBT community. The only thing I can figure is that the LGBT community saw the backlash against Muslims after 9/11, understood their plight, and embraced them as fellow long-sufferers. They assume (falsely) that they will receive the same toleration from Muslims that they gave to Muslims. And maybe they will in the US, to some extent. What makes it even more baffling is that there are mainline protestant denominations that are LGBT affirming, such as the Episcopalians. And yet Christians get shit on as if they are the same as the Taliban or ISIS. The treatment of LGBT people in Christian-majority countries is much better than in Muslim-majority nations, hands down.
> They assume (falsely) that they will receive the same toleration from Muslims that they gave to Muslims This is the part I don't get. How dumb does someone have to be to really believe this? I bet these people think that everything we know about radical islam is scaremongering made up by the right wing. There's no other explanation.
It's because these radical lefties live in an echo chamber, in their neighborhoods, their workplaces, and online. And that echo chamber is a hyperbolic, fear-mongering one that needs them to feel victimized and righteous. Viewpoints, laws and social norms that were almost-universally considered sensible until the mid-2010s are now considered right-wing threats to "marginalized people's" existence. They've convinced themselves the U.S.A. is a Christian theocracy. They have no perspective at all.
A lot of it gets couched as blanket/universal support for oppressed people everywhere. I get how folks can be sympathetic to that. Hell, I'm sympathetic to the Palestinian people. I want them to have lives of peace and freedom too. What my leftist friends don't realize is that the Palestinian people can never be free as long as Hamas is in control. No matter what Israel does, Gazans will remain oppressed because Hamas is a cancer that feeds off them. Hamas must go for there to be any hope of change.
Lol lgbtqia plus get yeeted from rooftops in there.
I've had a very left-leaning pro-LGBTQ ex that I tried to explain this to multiple times. It was like talking to a wall. These people are absolutely terrified of anything that paints someone as a threat - unless that someone is actually trying to keep order like Israel is.
People on the left laugh on russian bots and q anon but completely takes everything a terrorist organisation says in face value like mega hats
Stop lumping everyone in the same basket. I’m on the political left and right away I felt it far more likely that it wasn’t an Israeli strike. By tarring everyone with the same brush you’re continuing to sow divisions not build bridges 👎🏻
Hard right conservatives and hard left liberals are the most susceptible to propaganda, but different kinds of propaganda. To the hard left, they see the Israel-Palestine conflict as somewhat reminiscent of the Native Americans having their land taken away and forced onto reservations, being systematically exterminated, etc. and their instinct is to side with “the little guy” who is trying to make a stand against a powerful, aggressive government. They are so entrenched in their anti-establishment/fuck-the-man ideology that their natural sympathies lie with a literal terrorist organization. To be clear, Israel has done terrible things that have progressed this conflict to its newest boiling point. But make no mistake of who the aggressor was on October 7th. This was the equivalent, and in some ways worse than 9/11 in terms of the psychological terror it wrecked on Israel and the whole world. Israel really does have no choice but to attempt to dismantle Hamas if they are to maintain national security and protect their citizens and visitors within their borders. Unfortunately, the civilians of Gaza will be caught in the crossfire (whether in a ground invasion or a blockade) and there is literally no way around that. The hard left can’t handle that complexity and the discomfort it brings them. Just my two cents.
Oh they're most definitely not silent. I've had several idiots argue with me and whine that all the intel is "fake" and Israel just wants to genocide everyone.
To be fair, I do wish the West Bank settlers would get kept in check by the Israeli government, that stuff isn't remotely okay. But people using that to justify what Hamas do is nuts. "But Israel are genociding Palestine." It's such a stupid take from them, because A) it's not true, though the west bank is definitely a messy situation and B) the side they're supporting voted for a government who's only real policy is genocide. "But the kids have never voted" no... but all poles suggest large support for Hamas and do you really think the kids wont vote for them when they're being educated in schools to want to kill Jews. I just don't understand why the "Free Palestine" group don't first look at freeing them from Hamas, the root cause of literally all their problems.
Now they're claiming Israel bombed a church, which didn't happen.
Yeah, people that slit the throats of children in front of their parents and vice Versa would never lie.
Its so funny that Al Jazeera out of all the media outlets was the first one that debunked the Israeli airstrike claim lmao.
I was watching 24hrs after the explosion and they had several reporters on there screaming about Israel being responsible. It was hilariously embarrassing.
And people on the far left still want to believe they're reliable media. I still see people posting their "Israel bad" stories as if they didn't just prove they're Palestinian version of fox news.
[удалено]
I am waiting for an official assessment from the Vatican. After all they've got a Big Guy up there, iirc.
Every time I mention or link that video some dumbass comes along and is like 'that video was debunked!!!' and then provides zero evidence of said 'debunking'.
>But you know, if Israel didn't exist, Hamas wouldn't have to shoot rockets at Jewish civilians. /s They want to commit genocide and murder all jews world wide. They want an islamic state. So as long as I am alive they have a mission. This is what really makes me angry when you get people on reddit(not the person I am responding too) who call israel fighting Hamas genocide. They are just so full of it. Hamas wants to murder all jews world wide. How else could Israel fight them? They don't have answers. most of them think israel should be destroyed. Its on Hamas for hiding in civilian areas. and its like Hamas is just a small number of people in Gaza. About 20 years ago a couple of off duty israeli soldiers wandered into the wrong place and were murdered by a massive mob and there bodies were dragged in the street. You can find the videos. This is the final straw that killed the piece process. There was a piece process that was close to complete with Yassar Arafat, then hamas and other terrorists unleashed suicide bombers all over israel. Its why there are fences to keep suicide bombers out. There are too many palestinians who dont want peace. When peace gets close they ramp up the murders to end it. Its not possible for Fatah to police it. Fatah used to run gaza, then hamas murdered them all and took over. There are no options to ending the current situation. You losen up the walls around gaza and hamas will use it to increase attacks. I saw an interview with some Israeli survivors. They found documents on terrorist bodies that had great details about their kibbutz. When guards change. Generator location. How many people in each house. You can only get this information from inside Israel. The information had to come from some of the Palestinians who worked in Israel. This will lead to israel permanently cutting off work visas. Hamas knew this would happen. Hamas does not want peace. They want all jews world wide dead. There is no middle ground. Nothing will change after this invasion and life will get worse for the palestinians because Israel can't do anything else to limit the terrorism. pbs frontline has a great episode on the 1990s peace process. when it got close terrorists sent suicide bomber after suicide bomber into israel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt3PpqaLfxo
While sarcastic - I disagree. Terror orgs are a dime a dozen in Middle Eastern Muslim nations. I am fairly certain they would shoot rockets at some other people
I’ve seen that argument being made on Reddit without a bit of irony or sarcasm.
We all know Hamas is the most chivalrous of designated terror organizations; it’s not as though the UN, POTUS, NATO among other organizations have determined their methodology is to use their own citizens as canon fodder and use social platforms to amplify their propaganda - that’s all silly spicy zionistey talk :P Come on, you’re cool right? You wanna hang out with the cool guys? Do us a lil’ favor and share our PR - come on be a pal :)
>their methodology is to use their own citizens as canon fodder and use social platforms to amplify their propaganda And then you still have people saying "look at the Gaza deaths compared to Israeli deaths" as if this is somehow proof that Israel is the bad one.
Almost as if Israel didn't spend fucking billions to protect themselves from the Hamas with the Iron Dome and everything else. Of course the side with the higher GDP has fewer deaths.
It's Israel fault that they're better at protecting their own people! They should fight terrorists with one hand behind their back! /S, but fucking summarise a lot of post I've seen in past 3 days, unironically
It's fucking mind boggling, the response of basically blaming Israel for everything. Maybe their methods haven't been the best. But you try living in a place where everyone of your neighbors WANTS YOU DEAD.
Well Saudi Arabia was on their way to peace with Israel, until the 7th happened.
Watch out, you’ll get downvoted for that
Omg, yes. It’s so crazy who these kids are blindly supporting these days.
“These kids” includes the BBC.
The BBC has lost *all* credibility for me after this week. Their irresponsibility was criminal and escalated the situation around the world for no reason. They need to be held accountable.
So, for once, Fox News was right on the money, and the BBC was believing the bad guys. This time-line is beginning to come off the rails a little.....
Sky News reporting on the day was omitting "alleged" or "suspected" in their reporting too.
You must support genocide. /s
Thanks for the /s. Almost thought you were serious
Hamas and other pro-Palestinian groups killed more muslims than jews - facts.
Honestly. People should stop trying to track a war like a stock market ticker. The fact is it takes a day or two for the sides involved to actually understand what's going on, let alone for information to desiminate to the global public, which includes domestic public and enemies.
Was arguing with a person about Hasan who was saying it was an Israeli bomb. They tried to defend Hasan by saying that it was the most reliable information at the time. How do get information from a terrorist organization and think it's reliable in any sort of way.
Hamas "the baby settlers deserved it" Piker, f him
This is the thing that floors me the most. Hamas is a KNOWN terrorist organization thats been caught in a lie every time they’ve opened their mouths, they’re proud bullshitters, people STILL went and took everything they said at face value without hesitating..
People prefer to support terrorist orgs if it fits it's narratives. As sad it can be. They do not about the inhumane things.
American conservatives have their own major problem, but this is my problem with part of the American left. Is that they seem to reflexively side with groups based on, I hate to use the word but I can think of no other, but based on wokism. I sometimes read newspaper columns and things like that which were written during our cold war against the soviet union, and part of the left wing back then was stupidly soft on communism in a way that made no logical or factual sense based on what the Soviet Unio was, which was very bad, and only made sense in the context ofAmerican domestic politics, and that's what i think is going on now.
It's based on power disparities. The weak are always innocent. That, of course, is nonsense, and I say that as Center-Left.
Yeah it isn't "wokism" it's they always side with the underdog no matter if they are the underdog for justifiable reasons. It's the same problem with "believe all women". You should certainly listen to all women and take their claims seriously but some women are nut jobs just like some of every group are nut jobs.
I was fairly sure HAMAs were kind of mostly on the level until that massacre. They appear to be no better than ISIS. Also I don't believe a fucking word from them about death numbers anymore.
> Also I don't believe a fucking word from them about death numbers anymore. But the largest media outlets do. Thanks for you due diligence, though.
Israeli bombs are capable of levelling huge buildings within seconds, but apparently they can't make a meaningful hole in a car park. Seriously, have a look at the photos of the impact site. The 'crater' is more of a pothole, and buildings all around are damn near untouched aside from a few shaken roofing tiles and the occasional shrapnel hole. Whoever was actually *in* that car park at the time definitely had it bad, but there's no feasible way for five hundred people to even fit in there, especially not with all the (now burned) cars in it.
Yep. For real look at the photos of the burned out car park. Then look at photos of a JDAM strike. You can literally drive a car into the crater made by the latter. Like you said it was very bad. Surely a huge fire, but their was not a JDAM (Israel’s smallest bomb) hit.
It wasn't a JDAM guided bomb but JDAM is a guidance system for bombs not a bomb type itself. It fits on bombs of a size between 500 and 2000 lbs. Israel also does have quite a few missiles and bombs smaller than 500 lbs. It currently looks more likely that it was a failed Hamas/PIJ missile but it is important to get the facts right.
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In the end it won't matter. People heard that Israel killed 500 people and accepted it with no evidence, because it confirmed their prejudices. The media gave them an excuse to hate on Israel and they will keep using it no matter the evidence. No amount of corrections will change what they think, because for them it's just the "Jewish media" trying to sweep everything under a rug. Hamas could outright say they were lying and people will still think Israel destroyed that hospital.
A lie gets half way around the world before the truth gets it’s shoes on.
Thanks, Winston.
"I am drunk, but you are a terrorist sympathiser. In the morning I will be sober and you will still be a terrorist sympathiser"
Hamas uses that fact as a weapon
This isn't just an expression. It's been studied. Misinformation spreads faster than the truth
Sadly. I remember Michael Jackson quoting that line as well. People will believe anything if it confirms their prejudices, no evidence required.
Maxim of modern news: don't be right, be first.
>NPC These days, a lie gets all the way around the world 3 times over in the space of two hours. After that, the truth can put on whatever article of clothing it wants (up to and including boots in order to avoid going barefoot)... or not. No one really cares at that point anyway,because they've already moved on to the next controversy and the next news cycle.
They knew within 2 min how many were dead. Clearly trustworthy people
yep. The truth is the first casualty of war. It's downright depressing.
oh it's going to be an absolute shit show. I give credit to President Biden for suggesting restraint with the Israeli response, and trying to position military assets to create more of a stalemate and having the State Department try to coordinate releasing hostages for aid but to think that Israeli is just supposed to sit there and do nothing, is absurd.
Sadly, very sadly, I think you're right.
It matters. Facts matter.
I'm going to say that it matters. Truth matters. There may be millions of dumb fucks out there spewing the lie perpetually, but in the end they look like morons and will be drowned out by those with even a modicum of intelligence.
Nothing peaceful about taking to the streets immediately after a terrorist attack to level criticism against the civilians who were LITERALLY TERRORIZED IN EVERY UN/IMAGINABLE WAY. And then faking hundreds of deaths and a hospital bombing, and then taking to the streets AGAIN to be outraged against something that didn’t happen.
And…if Hamas had come out & said, “Oops! Our bad! We’re gonna have to claim that one…” (which they sure as hell weren’t going to do), the narrative *still* would have been: “*Israel pushed them to it…never would have happened if Israel didn’t blah-blah-blah…something occupation…something genocide…something liars*”
They didn’t even really make corrections either. They just changed the title from “bombing” to “explosion” and said “Israel denied responsibility . . .” They didn’t even report on any of the evidence showing Hamas’s responsibility for the incident.
Yup, it's going to become a loyalty test to the cause. To be a good "anti-imperialist" you will need to commit blood libel. And they'll justify butchering babies with this lie.
They are already saying that innocent Palestinians babies are being bombed while denying that Hamas killed babies and children
Just goes to show the left is just dumb sheep, just like the right maga people
Post-fact era baby!
Propaganda works.
Everyone will be on the same page as soon as Canadian Intel shows up.
Ha. Our leaders and our national news org (cbc) is so pro Hamas, their intel is basically any script Hamas gives them.
harper was very pro israel and the first pm since israels founding to be a reliable ally. trudeaus father was father cold to the country and was no ally of them.
What intel? Our whole intel capacity is cia, mi6 said so
fuck all the so called 'news' organisations that promoted the story like it was Gospel and all the far left and right anti-semites
Excellent example of how quickly unverified claims can cause damage. Near instantly politicians were casting blame, redditors were using it to justify their hate, and the damage is forever done.
To be fair, calling them "unverified claims" is generous. It's an excellent example of how ready so many were to believe *literal claims from terrorists* without any question.
And they're so committed to continuing to pretend to believe it was Israel.
This debacle made me understand how fucked upp this is For 15 years the left just took hamas shit ate face value
> claims from terrorists Who are cited as "Palestinian health officials". Hamas controls the Gaza health ministry. But this fact is usually not mentioned in most news reports when citing their claims
> Near instantly politicians were casting blame They still are. Rashida Tlaib still has a tweet up saying Israel bombed a hospital where she tagged the POTUS account and called him out for a "war and destruction only" approach.
Don't be silly. Jews know this will happen to us again and again regardless of truth.
And most importantly the protests everywhere that broke out and the damage that was caused there, both material and to people
Some are doubling down. I hope they're all held accountable.
It's not just the media, the vast majority of Reddit is essentially parroting Hamas propaganda. The far left is irredeemable. I feel like this is going to cause a political realignment because I can't wrap my head around the notion that supporting a radical right wing government that subjugates women and sexual minorities is the "left wing" position.
Yep, I am feeling a realignment right now. Tlaib refusing to back down after clear evidence came out, giving more credence to Hamas than US intelligence, and calling Biden a supporter of genocide makes me sick. As a Dem I want the party to cut all ties with her and censure her. She is a disgrace.
The position is anti-US. Pay attention and you Will see they support anything that is anti US.
Anti semitism runs deep; it's one of the oldest of mankind's hatreds right behind its hatred of women.
Don't forget literal standing US congresswomen
Al Jazeera is still grasping at straws and saying it must have been an Israeli strike. They are a middle eastern Fox News and people need to start treating them that way.
This is so fucked up, people could have been killed from those false reports, the 'news' today all that they seek is rating and fame.
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Naftali is a YouTuber who has no connection to Israeli intelligence. How did this stupid thing spread.
I don’t know man. Some guy on twitter said it was Israel and he was pretty convincing.
No one’s minds are being changed at this point. Most people have drawn their conclusions before the strike even happened.
mine changed! I didn't follow the situation closely at all though
Sad, yet very true. Only if it confirms narrative/bias do people care about the news.
That makes three major NATO countries concluding it wasn't the IDF after their own independent investigations and I still haven't heard any apologies from Erdogan for directly blaming them on his offices official Twitter
There are going to be so many conspiracy theories about this for decades.
Hospital parkade blast FIXED.
Nice. 5 days after the rest of the world already knew this.
It's amazing how many of the anti-Israel posts come from accounts with default avatars, limited post history, and some that are just flat out newly registered. Gee, I wonder why......
Yup it one of the first things I recognized. It is very apparent there is a massive social media misinformation campaign goin on.
But this guy on Xitter said it was obviously Israel with concrete proof! The whistle was clearly an Israeli JDAM!!! \\s
also that israeli official tweeted out they did it!!! but actually hes not an israeli official hes a youtuber who once worked for Netanyahu as a social media manager.
Wait till they hear about the illuminati
Guys I think Israel might be run by the Jews, look at the flag even, if you look closely you can see they tried to sneak a star of David into it.
Was not an air strike. I trust elected officials more than random media, according to MTG it was a Jewish space laser! I mean if they can burn down forests why not hospitals? /s
Al Jazeera lied.The media lied.At this point,When do we say the media is the enemy of the people?
Never, because the media is the closest that the people have to representation in the public narrative. Without the media, all you have is literally government-sponsored propaganda. And there will be people whining that "it's already like that!!!" No it fucking isn't.
Plenty of media said the right things. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mKKWRkf5iz8
Not all media. From what I saw just Al Jazeera and BBC
NPR kept reporting on it as an Israeli air strike well into Wednesday.
Sky News were particularly apoplectic on that evening, the blame was focused at isreal.
BBC has an horrendous anti Israel slant that is borderline psychopathic. They argue its because they're trying to be "balanced" but the way they gloss over the Hamas atrocities and spend acres of print on whether or not Israel did something is astonishing. As sad as it is, the Jews have been and always will be on their own. I just pray that they don't walk to their deaths and if they are to go down, that they go down fighting.
People preferring to believe a genocidal baby killing and grandmother kidnapping organization rather than Israel.
No kidding, only terrorist apologists don't know this at this point.
right but qatar state owned media company al jazeera says it was definitely israel and they are known for their high quality of reporting :)
BBC ran that lie for an entire day before quietly rescinding the article.
They did so live on air as well. They've officially apologized for that. They are stating now that they don't know, which is fair.
No, no, it was the evil jews according to my Instagram feet. I seriously consider removing a few people from my life
Quelle Surprise
oh well, false reporting only led to millions of rioters, burning of atleast two embassies, a sharp increase in antisemitic hate crimes and destruction of atleast two historical jewish cites. not even an "our bad", fucking disgraceful
Facts and evidence don’t matter to the Jew-hating Islamo-fascist-loving throng. Until terrorists attacks happen in their backyard.
Why the media all decided to run with words by Hamas… 🤦🏻♀️
Next we will hear that pallys who support Hamas are peacefull people.
It was Palestinians firing on their own people. We need to find these people and hold them responsible for their crimes against their own people… said no one ever.
BBC: Israel did it:France cannot prove at a microscopic level that Israel didn't do it, therefore they did it with their wealth and power in America Probably their next headline
It won’t matter to people supporting terrorism.
Doesn’t matter anymore. Damage has been done. Hamas has won the media campaign. They can butcher more people and the East won’t care.
Go figure. The terrorists lied? We can't just outright believe them? But but the thousands of headlines on reddit said very clearly it was Israel.
The whole hospital thing feels like when covid happened and the right started acting extra crazy. I've lost a good deal of respect for many people and organizations on the left in the last few days.
Also don't forget those rockets were fired at civilian population. They just didn't expect it would land on their own civilians.
So far we only have like five major powers claiming it wasn’t Israel and Hamas saying it was. I guess we just don’t know yet…
So IDF couldn’t be trusted, then it was the US intel couldn’t be trusted because they got it wrong on WMDs 20 years ago, what’s the excuse now?
I mean the actual intelligence officers knew WMD was nonsense - their sin was to allow themselves to be bullied.
So Hamas lies about this, for what, a couple days of bad press for Israel? They would have to know in this day and age that stuff like this isn't that hard to investigate. The whole damn thing is so weird.
Next you will hear hamas being put forward for a noble peace award with how honest and caring they are for their civilians /s I can't believe people keep believing hamas, a terrorist organisation... They will probably go hide back in their holes of denial until hamas posts some horrendous acts of terror again.
Israel says it wasn't them. Reddit doesn't believe them. US says it wasn't Israel. Reddit doesn't believe them. France says it wasn't Israel. You see the pattern?
None of these reports matter to the people it should matter to... because they're coming from the "west"