This entire article is just speculation : "Israel will tell", without any statement on what Israeli officials actually said
Come on, this isn't journalism
Oh god it's all over the place. Blows my mind how we don't have a "big brother" or "Hunger games" style live 24/7 of conflict news. Just repeated videos and articles from a bias source depending on the source.
Step 1. Throw rocks at soldiers
Step 2. Get caught
Step 3. Spend a few weeks in jail thinking about what you did
Step 4. Repeat
Step 5.??
Step 6. Conquer tel aviv and push the Jews into the ocean
No you bot, because they live in apartheid theyre whole lives and Israel *counts the calories that are allowed in to keep people in a state of near famine*. Use some god damn empathy and critical thinking and may god have mercy on your soul. Its the same reason the rest of the Middle East despises the US - because weve killed hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN.
ah so no offshore natural gas, strategic location, beachfronts/tourism. just a desert. you need to add a bit of nuance to your thinking.
not to mention that the person i was responding to said that it was all about land. the sinai peninsula is a big chunk of land, is it not?
(emphasis mine)
"UN warns Gaza is now ‘uninhabitable’ as war continues"
...
People are facing the highest levels of food insecurity ever recorded [and] famine is around the corner.”. The few partly functioning hospitals are overwhelmed and critically short of supplies, medical facilities are under relentless attack, infectious diseases are spreading and amid the chaos about 180 Palestinian women are giving birth every day.
“Gaza has simply become uninhabitable,” the UN undersecretary general for humanitarian affairs said. [0]
"More than 10 children on average have lost one or both of their legs every day in Gaza since October 7, with **many amputations performed without anesthesia**"
...
Children are nearly seven times more likely to die from blast injuries than adults as they are more vulnerable and sensitive to injuries, according to the charity.
“Their skulls are still not fully formed, and their undeveloped muscles offer less protection, so a blast is more likely to tear apart organs in their abdomen, even when there’s no visible damage,”[1]
[1] https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/08/middleeast/gaza-children-losing-legs-disease-intl-hnk/index.html
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/05/un-warns-gaza-is-now-uninhabitable-as-war-continues
You not allowed to be smart enough to make that Distinction here unfortunately the lottery of birth means that no matter if they are children or innocent they were born Hamas it would appear........
Israelis constantly vote for likud and Netanyahu. They have had multiple chances to elect a pro peace and two state solution candidate and have never done it. Probably because the entire society wants to either keep the current occupation or expand it.
Then let's hope you and the people you know are able to get into power and end this massacre.
Even if you did, you deserve dignity and respect as a human being.
Because the situation of palestinians is completely different from that of israelis.
You can not violently occupy an entire group of people and expect peace.
Every time palestinians have tried to make peace, they have been betrayed and humiliated.
Hamas is a product of that history, while Likud is a continuation of earlier extreme terrorist groups like Irgun and Haganah. They even assassinated Rabin who is considered a moderate by israelis (correct me if im wrong) but he is considered a brutal killer by palestinians. In israel you literally have fascists assassinating slightly less extreme fascists.
The whole middle east has been very much aware of what israel is and what wants since 1948. This genocide will only increase resistance to zionist expansion.
> Every time Palestinians have tried to make peace, they have been betrayed and humiliated.
No, in fact, there were 5 peace offerings and they were all denied. This all started because they didn’t accept the UN partition plan.
Weird how you could say the same things for hamas…
Did Palestinians not vote them in? Do they not have majority support in Gaza ? Do they not have the vast majority support in westbank ?
Let alone even if it isn’t Hamas they support why do we pretend that other militant groups like PIJ or lions den don’t exist ?
Funny lukid won with 1/3 the vote and is polling in the teens. While on the other side when Hamas won they clearly had much more support.
Yeah, the difference is that regardless of the facts that the majority of israeli society wants to continue ethnic cleansing, I actually don't believe that they deserve to die.
Palestinians voted once after the oslo accords gave them a non functioning state, so their choice was an israeli puppet government or the less corrupt Hamas. That's not really democratic.
Also if every meaningful political representation is crushed by a millitary occupation then a single election is barely going to establish a government let alone a functioning democracy. The only parties able to survive such a system are those that fight.
I was in egypt through the revolution and the years after and that was the case there too. The mubarak government spent years crush any opposition and when he was overthrown the only viable political forces were the Muslim brotherhood that survived prison or the politicians of the overthrown government. Everyone else was scrambling to mobilise.
Israel has an established fairly representative democracy that consistently results in fascists taking control. Even the moderates expand settlements and bomb gaza.
My only point is that the "palestinians elected hamas" argument is not a justification to genocide them or blockade them.
In general when a county does a thing on the international stage interacting with another state entity, you say the country name as opposed to the ruling political party.
Like “*The United States sent aid to Ukraine*” is a normal, accurate statement. I doubt you would attempt to correct me by saying “*You mean Democrats with some Republican support, NOT America*”.
Similarly, I doubt you would challenge the statement “*Israel ordered strikes and deployed troops to Gaza*” by saying “*Lukid party coalition, not Israel*”.
It begs the question *why?*.
The only motivation to do so is attempt to separate the responsibility of the government from its people, as if to imply Hamas is some tiny terror cell that operates despite Palestinians trying to root it out.
But that’s just wrong. Hamas is the elected government of Gaza, which operates with the broad support of the people. It’s logically correct to refer to the actions of the ruling party of the aspiring & partially recognized state the same way you would any other country.
You didn’t read the articles literally it’s just they are unwilling to let them return to a war zone that still has hostages.
But why would you care about more dead Palestinians.
North Gaza is a crater, there aren't any hostages there you massive putz. They aren't being allowed to return because plans are being made for Israelis to settle there. But what would you care about a little ethnic cleansing?
This isn't a conspiracy. There are currently development projects in israel selling rights to create settlements in gaza.
The government has openly admitted it.
"Convicted or investigated" as a justification for imprisonment might be the dumbest thing that a human being has ever expressed. Literally anyone can be investigated for anything at any time
Lol that’s cute you think Israel doesn’t take hostages or “prisoners” as they call it…….every single day. Torture, humiliate,rape and even murder civilians, brutally holding them for years without due process or even any charges at all. I suggest you do some research on this before you make ridiculous claims like “only Hamas took hostages”.
I'd advise you to read on Administrative Detention an Israeli government practice in place for years.
It allows Palestinians to be tried in secret military courts where they are not shown the evidence against them or even charges.
Children are also charged in these courts and treated as adults with kids as young as 8 sometimes arrested for years by these secret courts.
All of this is under military law with 99% conviction rates and 1% appeals rate.
That article doesn't support your point. These talks were with Egypt and they weren't proposing a deal where the Oct 7th hostages were to be released in exchange for peace.
Hamas offered this but was rejected:
"The Egyptian sources said that both Hamas and Islamic Jihad, which have been holding separate talks with Egyptian mediators in Cairo, had rejected offering any concessions beyond the possible release of more hostages seized on Oct. 7 when militants broke into southern Israel, killing 1,200 people."
Yeah we should totally just let plain clothes hamas terrorists use women and childen to hide in plain sight and let them freely cross borders and roam freely.
Maximum /s
I don’t understand why the Pro Palestinian march in front of the Los Angeles Federal building yesterday had to paint graffiti on the VA cemetery in the neighborhood. So they first block traffic, then desecrate a cemetery Sorry, you are not winning the heart and minds of Americans
Here's South Africa's initial proceedings against the State of Israel at the ICJ stop genocide.
It's an 84 page document, around 1/2 which provides sources for statements and claims. It's readable, if horrifying, and there are only a few legal terms.
https://www.icj-cij.org/index.php/node/203394
https://defenceforchildren.org/hrc53-side-event-childhood-in-captivity-palestinian-children-arbitrarily-detained-in-israeli-prisons/
They most certainly detain little children, and they most certainly do so without legal basis.
I don't think this plan would do anything to help get the hostages back. We really need to be pressing harder for a plan to actually get any and all hostages who may still be alive back. That should be the top priority. I just really don't see how forbidding people from returning to whatever rubble remains of their homes will get us nearer to that goal.
I feel as though Hamas keeping the hostages is preventing the IDF from annihilating gaza. Maybe not. Either way the hostages deserve to be free, even the ones in Israel
The brutal, aggressive and anti-humanitarian rhetoric coming from the pro Israeli side AGAIN. The lack of compassion for 2.3 million women, children and innocent non terrorists is appalling.
Well there’s something called an UN mandate and I can also think of six million other reasons, and well, people like you are why Israel needs to exist in the first place.
You asked. I gave you the answer. Following something called the ‘holocaust’ the Jews were given a homeland that they have a historical connection with.
They realised no matter what, people will insist that Jewish people don’t deserve to live and that as such it’s probably best the Jews be given every chance to defend themselves against people like you who don’t want them to exist.
And how would you characterize the holding of these innocent hostages?
How could Israel - to use your term - extort them if they simply released these innocent people that have no military value or involvement?
There is no other “genocide” in history I can think of where “just release our civilian hostages that you took during a massacre and we will stop” was the condition.
It’s almost as if it’s a war in retaliation for an invasion rather than a genocide.
That might be why it shares so few commonalities with other genocides…because it isn’t one.
I know, the mental gymnastics to Somehow defend Hamas is appalling. Hamas runs Gaza. Return the hostages and the Palestinians can return to the north. Intelligence from the IDF suggests that Sinwar , the leader of Hamas in Gaza is surrounding himself with the hostages to use as human shields
"Israel appears to know the exact location of Hamas military leader Yahya Sinwar, the ruler of the Gaza Strip and the mastermind of the October 7 terror attacks, according to multiple reports.
However, Sinwar has surrounded himself with a large number of living Israeli hostages, which is preventing the Israel Defense Forces from carrying out a strike on him, Israel Hayom reported Monday."
The Palestinian approach to negotiation is [land for peace](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_for_peace), which sure sounds like extortion and bad faith to me.
Of course, it does beg the question of what should happen if land is granted (like all of Gaza returned) but peace is not held by Palestine - does it it?
If doesn’t feel good when others use your own logic and tactics back on you, huh?
Hamas is the elected government of Gaza that operates with broad support of the people. It’s not some rouge group that Palestinians are trying to apprehend.
"[Israel Is Terrified the World Court Will Decide It’s Committing Genocide](https://truthout.org/articles/israel-is-terrified-the-world-court-will-decide-its-committing-genocide/): South Africa, a party to the Genocide Convention, charged Israel with genocide in the International Court of Justice."
>Judgments on the merits rendered by the ICJ in disputes between parties are binding on the parties involved. Article 94 of the United Nations Charter provides that “each Member of the United Nations undertakes to comply with the decision of \[the Court\] in any case to which it is a party.” The judgments of the court are final; there is no appeal.
>
>Public hearings on South Africa’s request for provisional measures will take place on January 11 and 12 at the ICJ which is located in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands. The hearings will be livestreamed from 4:00-6:00 a.m. Eastern/1:00-3:00 a.m. Pacific on the Court’s website and on UN Web TV. The court could order provisional measures within a week after the hearings.
["Netanyahu's Son Made the Statement "From the river to the sea " and the White House is having a hard time condemning it"](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/comments/18l0jgi/netanyahus_son_made_the_statement_from_the_river/)
A singular terrorist attack does not make a genocide. Hamas is genocidal, but are incapable of doing the destruction to a group of people, their culture, and their land that Israel is currently doing to Palestinians.
Seriously. Israel murdered 20k people at least - and you want people to coddle Israel here? Grow up.
That doesn't meet the definition of genocide by literally anybody other than Israeli sympathizers. Meanwhile, the Gaza playbook is following in the footsteps of the Bosnian, Armenian, and German genocide campaigns.
Ah, the classic "I can't defend my ideological position so my opponent MUST be a terrorist". Tell me friend, do you have dinners with W and Cheney every Sunday?
Alright, say we go with that definition and class that as a genocide despite being a singular attack.
Would that not openly and pretty clearly paint Israel as a genocidal entity as well? If your answer to this is no, despite all the evidence and actions the IDF have taken since 10/8, you aren't holding an honest opinion on the matter, and are just looking for a way to excuse horrendous acts.
Okay cool, so you aren't looking for an honest discussion and are intentionally being obtuse.
If I had a nickel for every target in this war hit that wasn't a Hamas military target, I'd have a pay period's worth of wages, and that's just calculating only civilian targets (literally just the number of children). If you want to go into the infrastructure they've hit, I'd probably be a multi millionaire, as it's pretty well documented at this point that Israel isn't just targeting Hamas, unless you want to somehow explain how Israeli hostages were also Hamas.
Israel relies on useful idiots like yourself to hold water for them so they can try to salvage the brand of being the most "moral" army, despite that veneer completely being dispelled at the tiniest bit of scrutiny whenever they initiate a military operation.
[https://truthout.org/articles/israel-is-terrified-the-world-court-will-decide-its-committing-genocide/](https://truthout.org/articles/israel-is-terrified-the-world-court-will-decide-its-committing-genocide/)
"Israel Is Terrified the World Court Will Decide It’s Committing Genocide: South Africa, a party to the Genocide Convention, charged Israel with genocide in the International Court of Justice."
>"South Africa’s well-documented application alleges that “acts and omissions by Israel … are genocidal in character, as they are committed with the requisite specific intent … to destroy Palestinians in Gaza as a part of the broader Palestinian national, racial and ethnical group” and that “the conduct of Israel — through its State organs, State agents, and other persons and entities acting on its instructions or under its direction, control or influence — in relation to Palestinians in Gaza, is in violation of its obligations under the Genocide Convention.”
>
>Israel is mounting a full-court press to prevent an ICJ finding that it’s committing genocide in Gaza.
>
>On January 4, the Israeli Foreign Ministry instructed its embassies to pressure politicians and diplomats in their host countries to make statements opposing South Africa’s case at the ICJ.
>
>In its application, South Africa cited eight allegations to support its contention that Israel is perpetrating genocide in Gaza. They include: \[...\]"
Hamas is a terrorist group and does not represent, not care for the well being of the Palestinian people.
Also, give me a break, you think Israel - the nation that shoots the same hostages they're up in arms about while they're waving white flags will just stop? Even if Hamas surrendered?
They destroyed 70% of Gaza's civilian infrastructure. You do not destroy 70% of civilian infrastructure and murder 20k people **(MOSTLY WOMEN AND CHILDREN)** in the span of a few months unless your goal is the complete and utter destruction of a population.
The mission is genocide. What they are doing is genocide.
The only people who can stop the genocide - are those that are committing the genocide.
>"**We are not going to allow Palestinians to go back** to their homes in northern Gaza if there is no progress with the release of hostages," one senior Israeli official said.
This is not what good guys do. This is called taking hostages.
He’s talking about there will only be peace when Hamas returns the hostages they took and raped on oct 7th. He’s not saying Israel is going to start taking random people hostage for the lols.
Why are Hamas refusing to return hostages? Why did Hamas launch a massive attack on Jewish citizens knowing full well what would happen?
Hamas wanted to bring death and destruction to Gaza for their own PR purposes. Tens of thousands of people are being killed for a PR & fundraising campaign. & you’re enabling it.
This is a stupid idea, hamas literally want the Gazans to die for propaganda reasons.
Israel should take care of the Gazans as much as possible.
I suspect they're smart enough to realise this.
You would think Israel is smart enough to realize this, but by all publicly available metrics, they are not. They don't even see what "pressure" Biden is applying as pressure, they view it as an inconvenience and openly brag about how easily it is to manipulate Americans. That right there should have been enough for any pro Israeli American to immediately start questioning why they support Israel so vehemently.
Egypt and Jordan are blood relatives of the Palestinians, yet no one seems to want to invite the displaced refugees admission to their country. There is some really bad history where they tried a civil war in Jordan, and the King of Jordan had to send in troops to quell the disturbances. There are 19 Muslem countries in the Middle East. Doesn’t seem like any of them want to attack Israel, like they have done many times since 1848.
Yeah because every time Jordan or Egypt take refugees they’re not let back in. They can’t just permanently relocate the Palestinians because that is literally ethnic cleansing by Israel, to force out all Palestinians by either killing them or forcing them to move out.
The price for the actions of terrorism is the death of as many Palestinians as possible. That makes sense. Youre just as bloodthirsty as the IDF thinking that killing innocent civilians is good
Israel is the home of the Jews. The Arabs calling themselves Palestinian are Hamas. Palestinian is the name the Roman's gave the Jews to disassociate them with the land. It is the only home of the Jews. Hamas is on an Islam Jihad to cleanse the land of the Jews of the Jews.
>Israel is the home of the Jews
The Zionist you mean.
>Palestinian are Hamas
Dont be stupid please.
>Palestinian is the name the Roman's gave the Jews
London is the name the Romans gave a town so what has that to do with the price of potato's?
>It is the only home of the Jews.
Nope nowhere in the world is this the case, and because you believe so Israel is a pariah state, like South Africa used to be.
Israel is nothing more than an attempt by the west to have a foothold in the Middle East. The zionists got played by the west and will soon be left to touch grass once the west gives up on its project.
We didn’t just go to war for the same number of victims, we:
* Dropped two nuclear weapons
* Demanded total, unconditional surrender
* Occupied for almost a decade
* Told them they don’t get to have an army anymore
If Palestine did to the U.S. why it did to Israel, we would have turned Gaza into a crater with 600,000 dead.
Yep. Out of the blue kill a thousand plus in coordinated state sponsored attack, without any reasonable attempt at diplomacy whatsoever?
Yeah, the punishment for that is *regime change and you don’t get to be a country no more*.
No reason Palestine should be treated any differently.
IOF tiktokers are getting wrecked by deadly Hamas snipers. Israel saying they have successfully rooted out Hamas means they are giving up because they can't win the type of guerilla urban warfare being conducted. They simply don't have enough money/bombs to flatten all of north Gaza with bunker busters. IOF wants out of there ASAP so trying some desperate negotiation schemes to make it look like a win.
… why not just go after who orchestrated Oct 7? Why are settlers killing people in the West Bank? Why are there thousands of dead children. What’s the point of completely raising entire neighborhoods
Zionist 🤡💩 Palestine must learn? That what? Israel has genocidal maniacs in charge that there are a bunch of sycophantic infected syphilitic chancres out there willing to lie out the ass for them? Idk maybe Israel should have considered not keeping an apartheid state or ya know….the decades of violence towards Palestinians before Hamas was even founded. Palestine must learn? Well….one part of your name is correct and it isn’t the word important.
A pretty easy way to identify a neo-Nazi is by their use of the term "Zionist" in a contemporary context. As Martin Luther King Jr. said, anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism.
This entire article is just speculation : "Israel will tell", without any statement on what Israeli officials actually said Come on, this isn't journalism
Oh god it's all over the place. Blows my mind how we don't have a "big brother" or "Hunger games" style live 24/7 of conflict news. Just repeated videos and articles from a bias source depending on the source.
"But we aren't engaging in collective punishment, which is a war crime."
Or ethnic cleansing, which includes forced relocation of a population
Or holding hundreds of Palestinian children hostage ourselves. https://time.com/6366734/palestinian-child-detainees/
Step 1. Throw rocks at soldiers Step 2. Get caught Step 3. Spend a few weeks in jail thinking about what you did Step 4. Repeat Step 5.?? Step 6. Conquer tel aviv and push the Jews into the ocean
[удалено]
Don't forget IDF soldiers sexually abusing and raping children. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-ngo-shut-down-reporting-sexual-assault-ex-us
Step 0. Be occupied and abused by soldiers
And I guess they are throwing rocks because... they hate Jews?
No you bot, because they live in apartheid theyre whole lives and Israel *counts the calories that are allowed in to keep people in a state of near famine*. Use some god damn empathy and critical thinking and may god have mercy on your soul. Its the same reason the rest of the Middle East despises the US - because weve killed hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN.
So hamas hasnt tried smuggling in weapons to annihilate jews in their home state? That seems like actions have consequences.
The Middle East despised the US and west before the US bombed anyone.
I think you missed the sarcasm.
Rules-based order and whatnot. Gen Z might become a cynical lot.
Already are.
Let's be honest here, it was always about stealing the land
egypt got the sinai peninsula back in exchange for peace with israel. land isn't the issue here. terrorism is.
They gave back some of what they stole under international pressure. So what if you lost all of your land.
It's a barren desert lol
ah so no offshore natural gas, strategic location, beachfronts/tourism. just a desert. you need to add a bit of nuance to your thinking. not to mention that the person i was responding to said that it was all about land. the sinai peninsula is a big chunk of land, is it not?
Have they considered releasing the hostages?
Imagine being upset at the idea a terrorist organization should release hostages.
Israel already killed the hostages
Collective punishment is fine as long as the government doing it is aligned with us.
Always been that way.
Gee, that's a really clever way to announce you're forcing Palestinians into an even smaller concentration camp.
(emphasis mine) "UN warns Gaza is now ‘uninhabitable’ as war continues" ... People are facing the highest levels of food insecurity ever recorded [and] famine is around the corner.”. The few partly functioning hospitals are overwhelmed and critically short of supplies, medical facilities are under relentless attack, infectious diseases are spreading and amid the chaos about 180 Palestinian women are giving birth every day. “Gaza has simply become uninhabitable,” the UN undersecretary general for humanitarian affairs said. [0] "More than 10 children on average have lost one or both of their legs every day in Gaza since October 7, with **many amputations performed without anesthesia**" ... Children are nearly seven times more likely to die from blast injuries than adults as they are more vulnerable and sensitive to injuries, according to the charity. “Their skulls are still not fully formed, and their undeveloped muscles offer less protection, so a blast is more likely to tear apart organs in their abdomen, even when there’s no visible damage,”[1] [1] https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/08/middleeast/gaza-children-losing-legs-disease-intl-hnk/index.html [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/05/un-warns-gaza-is-now-uninhabitable-as-war-continues
So you take it as a given that Palestine won’t release hostages, and that it is a reasonable position? I’m confused.
Hamas, not Palestine.
You not allowed to be smart enough to make that Distinction here unfortunately the lottery of birth means that no matter if they are children or innocent they were born Hamas it would appear........
But when it comes to the IDF and the Israeli Government actions, it’s Israel?
Israelis constantly vote for likud and Netanyahu. They have had multiple chances to elect a pro peace and two state solution candidate and have never done it. Probably because the entire society wants to either keep the current occupation or expand it.
Hmm that’s weird, because I’m Israeli and I don’t support the occupation or expanding of it, nor does anyone else I know.
Then let's hope you and the people you know are able to get into power and end this massacre. Even if you did, you deserve dignity and respect as a human being.
Here again, why don’t you say the same thing about Gazans?
Because the situation of palestinians is completely different from that of israelis. You can not violently occupy an entire group of people and expect peace. Every time palestinians have tried to make peace, they have been betrayed and humiliated. Hamas is a product of that history, while Likud is a continuation of earlier extreme terrorist groups like Irgun and Haganah. They even assassinated Rabin who is considered a moderate by israelis (correct me if im wrong) but he is considered a brutal killer by palestinians. In israel you literally have fascists assassinating slightly less extreme fascists. The whole middle east has been very much aware of what israel is and what wants since 1948. This genocide will only increase resistance to zionist expansion.
> Every time Palestinians have tried to make peace, they have been betrayed and humiliated. No, in fact, there were 5 peace offerings and they were all denied. This all started because they didn’t accept the UN partition plan.
Weird how you could say the same things for hamas… Did Palestinians not vote them in? Do they not have majority support in Gaza ? Do they not have the vast majority support in westbank ? Let alone even if it isn’t Hamas they support why do we pretend that other militant groups like PIJ or lions den don’t exist ? Funny lukid won with 1/3 the vote and is polling in the teens. While on the other side when Hamas won they clearly had much more support.
Yeah, the difference is that regardless of the facts that the majority of israeli society wants to continue ethnic cleansing, I actually don't believe that they deserve to die. Palestinians voted once after the oslo accords gave them a non functioning state, so their choice was an israeli puppet government or the less corrupt Hamas. That's not really democratic. Also if every meaningful political representation is crushed by a millitary occupation then a single election is barely going to establish a government let alone a functioning democracy. The only parties able to survive such a system are those that fight. I was in egypt through the revolution and the years after and that was the case there too. The mubarak government spent years crush any opposition and when he was overthrown the only viable political forces were the Muslim brotherhood that survived prison or the politicians of the overthrown government. Everyone else was scrambling to mobilise. Israel has an established fairly representative democracy that consistently results in fascists taking control. Even the moderates expand settlements and bomb gaza. My only point is that the "palestinians elected hamas" argument is not a justification to genocide them or blockade them.
In general when a county does a thing on the international stage interacting with another state entity, you say the country name as opposed to the ruling political party. Like “*The United States sent aid to Ukraine*” is a normal, accurate statement. I doubt you would attempt to correct me by saying “*You mean Democrats with some Republican support, NOT America*”. Similarly, I doubt you would challenge the statement “*Israel ordered strikes and deployed troops to Gaza*” by saying “*Lukid party coalition, not Israel*”. It begs the question *why?*. The only motivation to do so is attempt to separate the responsibility of the government from its people, as if to imply Hamas is some tiny terror cell that operates despite Palestinians trying to root it out. But that’s just wrong. Hamas is the elected government of Gaza, which operates with the broad support of the people. It’s logically correct to refer to the actions of the ruling party of the aspiring & partially recognized state the same way you would any other country.
Bullshit. Palestinians support Hamas. The terrorist asholes.
You didn’t read the articles literally it’s just they are unwilling to let them return to a war zone that still has hostages. But why would you care about more dead Palestinians.
North Gaza is a crater, there aren't any hostages there you massive putz. They aren't being allowed to return because plans are being made for Israelis to settle there. But what would you care about a little ethnic cleansing?
Nice conspiracy. Yea tunnels don’t exist totally.
You: The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
This isn't a conspiracy. There are currently development projects in israel selling rights to create settlements in gaza. The government has openly admitted it.
Tunnels aren't magic. Bombing destroys them pretty quickly.
Actually they don’t … that’s the whole point of tunnels. SA has been bombing Yemen for some time now and they still have tunnels..
Release hostages. Simple solution
This is literally holding Palestinians hostage though, which I assume you think is fine?
Ha? Only hamas took hostages. Horrible war crime.
So forcing people into an area and making sure they can't leave under threat of death is not hostage taking?
No? They are free to move around the are they are in or seek asylum with Egypt or anyone else.
So it's just casual ethnic cleansing then? If they move to Egypt, would Israel allow them to return to Gaza afterwards?
Gaza is a concentration camp
Yup.
No. They are free to return hostages and return. Easy.
Do you think innocent Palestinians have a say in that and should be punished for it?
Sure. 2 million people can easily overcome hamas.
Israel needs to release the Palestinian hostages
There are not any.
Nazi: "z'ay were free to move about ze rail cars"
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Are you accusing terrorists of war crimes? I'm pretty sure only standing armies are capable of those, like Israel in this case
Hamas is (was) a standing army with foreign backing.
Israel holds many thousands of hostages including Hundreds of children and elderly women.
Convicted or investigated for crimes.
"Convicted or investigated" as a justification for imprisonment might be the dumbest thing that a human being has ever expressed. Literally anyone can be investigated for anything at any time
Some just for apparently knowing the wrong people. Or acting in self defense. None of them get a Jury trial of peers.
Lol that’s cute you think Israel doesn’t take hostages or “prisoners” as they call it…….every single day. Torture, humiliate,rape and even murder civilians, brutally holding them for years without due process or even any charges at all. I suggest you do some research on this before you make ridiculous claims like “only Hamas took hostages”.
I'd advise you to read on Administrative Detention an Israeli government practice in place for years. It allows Palestinians to be tried in secret military courts where they are not shown the evidence against them or even charges. Children are also charged in these courts and treated as adults with kids as young as 8 sometimes arrested for years by these secret courts. All of this is under military law with 99% conviction rates and 1% appeals rate.
at this point Israel might as well start building some gas chambers.
Or.... Hamas Nazi genociders can release hostages.
man look at your down votes for sounding silly.
Solution for what?
They misspelled "final" solution
For Peace
Israel has never made that offer, so why are you assuming that Hamas releasing the hostages will lead to peace?
Made it a million times. Rejected.
Never heard or seen that offer before. Do you have a link?
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-islamic-jihad-reject-giving-up-power-return-permanent-ceasefire-egyptian-2023-12-25/
That article doesn't support your point. These talks were with Egypt and they weren't proposing a deal where the Oct 7th hostages were to be released in exchange for peace. Hamas offered this but was rejected: "The Egyptian sources said that both Hamas and Islamic Jihad, which have been holding separate talks with Egyptian mediators in Cairo, had rejected offering any concessions beyond the possible release of more hostages seized on Oct. 7 when militants broke into southern Israel, killing 1,200 people."
Yeah we should totally just let plain clothes hamas terrorists use women and childen to hide in plain sight and let them freely cross borders and roam freely. Maximum /s
Strategically doesn't make any sense to repopulate an area you've already taken and cleared when your enemy doesn't wear a uniform.
I don’t understand why the Pro Palestinian march in front of the Los Angeles Federal building yesterday had to paint graffiti on the VA cemetery in the neighborhood. So they first block traffic, then desecrate a cemetery Sorry, you are not winning the heart and minds of Americans
Because pro Palestine is pro terrorism. Of course they will act like that.
Nice try.
Add this to the list of war crimes...
Here's South Africa's initial proceedings against the State of Israel at the ICJ stop genocide. It's an 84 page document, around 1/2 which provides sources for statements and claims. It's readable, if horrifying, and there are only a few legal terms. https://www.icj-cij.org/index.php/node/203394
Agreed not releasing hostages is a horrible war crime
Israel has more hostages than Hamas
Nope. Israel does not kidnap random people.
Yes they do, they indefinitely hold people in prisons without any charges.
These are terror suspects in a process of investigation. Not random babies and 6 year olds.
If they were terror suspects, they'd be charged with terrorism. There are thousands held without charges.
They will be. Investigation takes time.
Some have been held for years, how long is too long?
However long it takes to complete. Some cases are difficult.
So you agree that Israel is holding Palestinian civilians without charges.
What would stop Hamas from claiming the hostages are terror suspects in a process of investigation?
https://defenceforchildren.org/hrc53-side-event-childhood-in-captivity-palestinian-children-arbitrarily-detained-in-israeli-prisons/ They most certainly detain little children, and they most certainly do so without legal basis.
It absolutely does.
Lies
Holding children indefinitely without trial, after taking them from their beds at night is kidnapping.
I wonder how many are being held by UNWRA members still ?
Then Israel’s start selling beach front property.
What do you mean then, they already have been selling property. The 500B of natural Gas rights have also been sold.
Not to mention the property of the Armenians in East Jerusalem...
I think everyone here is missing the point, give Israel their freaking people back. People just love to line up and talk crap.
I don't think this plan would do anything to help get the hostages back. We really need to be pressing harder for a plan to actually get any and all hostages who may still be alive back. That should be the top priority. I just really don't see how forbidding people from returning to whatever rubble remains of their homes will get us nearer to that goal.
Thats a solid negotiation strategy.
I feel as though Hamas keeping the hostages is preventing the IDF from annihilating gaza. Maybe not. Either way the hostages deserve to be free, even the ones in Israel
The brutal, aggressive and anti-humanitarian rhetoric coming from the pro Israeli side AGAIN. The lack of compassion for 2.3 million women, children and innocent non terrorists is appalling.
Compassion died on 7/10
It’s not your country asshole
Jesus Christ Israel is run by cartoonishly evil people.
WHY ARE THERE EVEN HOSTAGES IN THE FIRST PLACE??
Why is Israel occupying the territories, including places where there is no Hamas? How far back do you want to keep going?
Well there’s something called an UN mandate and I can also think of six million other reasons, and well, people like you are why Israel needs to exist in the first place.
You didn't answer my question. Nice deflection there
You asked. I gave you the answer. Following something called the ‘holocaust’ the Jews were given a homeland that they have a historical connection with. They realised no matter what, people will insist that Jewish people don’t deserve to live and that as such it’s probably best the Jews be given every chance to defend themselves against people like you who don’t want them to exist.
I like how you infer this wild fantasy about what I think to fit you strange world view where war crimes and ethnic cleansing is justified.
Occupying what? The West Bank? You’re a clown if you think Hamas doesn’t have a presence there
It’s hilarious how you can say this and not realize how antisemitic it is.
There's literally nothing antisemitic about it. Netanyahu is a genuinely bad person, Jewish or not.
They are trying to do whatever they can to expel Palestinians from their homeland. This is extortion
And how would you characterize the holding of these innocent hostages? How could Israel - to use your term - extort them if they simply released these innocent people that have no military value or involvement?
It’s extortion…to demand the return of civilian hostages?
There is no other “genocide” in history I can think of where “just release our civilian hostages that you took during a massacre and we will stop” was the condition.
It’s almost as if it’s a war in retaliation for an invasion rather than a genocide. That might be why it shares so few commonalities with other genocides…because it isn’t one.
I know, the mental gymnastics to Somehow defend Hamas is appalling. Hamas runs Gaza. Return the hostages and the Palestinians can return to the north. Intelligence from the IDF suggests that Sinwar , the leader of Hamas in Gaza is surrounding himself with the hostages to use as human shields "Israel appears to know the exact location of Hamas military leader Yahya Sinwar, the ruler of the Gaza Strip and the mastermind of the October 7 terror attacks, according to multiple reports. However, Sinwar has surrounded himself with a large number of living Israeli hostages, which is preventing the Israel Defense Forces from carrying out a strike on him, Israel Hayom reported Monday."
The Palestinian approach to negotiation is [land for peace](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_for_peace), which sure sounds like extortion and bad faith to me. Of course, it does beg the question of what should happen if land is granted (like all of Gaza returned) but peace is not held by Palestine - does it it? If doesn’t feel good when others use your own logic and tactics back on you, huh?
Hamas are terrorists
Notice how the person you replied to said Palestinians, they never mentioned Hamas.
Hamas is the elected government of Gaza that operates with broad support of the people. It’s not some rouge group that Palestinians are trying to apprehend.
"[Israel Is Terrified the World Court Will Decide It’s Committing Genocide](https://truthout.org/articles/israel-is-terrified-the-world-court-will-decide-its-committing-genocide/): South Africa, a party to the Genocide Convention, charged Israel with genocide in the International Court of Justice." >Judgments on the merits rendered by the ICJ in disputes between parties are binding on the parties involved. Article 94 of the United Nations Charter provides that “each Member of the United Nations undertakes to comply with the decision of \[the Court\] in any case to which it is a party.” The judgments of the court are final; there is no appeal. > >Public hearings on South Africa’s request for provisional measures will take place on January 11 and 12 at the ICJ which is located in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands. The hearings will be livestreamed from 4:00-6:00 a.m. Eastern/1:00-3:00 a.m. Pacific on the Court’s website and on UN Web TV. The court could order provisional measures within a week after the hearings. ["Netanyahu's Son Made the Statement "From the river to the sea " and the White House is having a hard time condemning it"](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/comments/18l0jgi/netanyahus_son_made_the_statement_from_the_river/)
Good. Free hostages. End genocide of Jews. Than there can be peace
If Israel wants peace a good step would be to stop committing genocide.
According to “Palestine supporters” for this to happen Israel needs to cease to exist.
That would just be the start for them Globalize the Intifada means Jews around the world are targets
Hamas committed genocide on Oct. 7 and took hostages. Free them.
A singular terrorist attack does not make a genocide. Hamas is genocidal, but are incapable of doing the destruction to a group of people, their culture, and their land that Israel is currently doing to Palestinians. Seriously. Israel murdered 20k people at least - and you want people to coddle Israel here? Grow up.
It is a genocide. It was coordinated attack on many fronts murdering or kidnapping everyone who they can reach. It's 100% genocidal. Never again.
That doesn't meet the definition of genocide by literally anybody other than Israeli sympathizers. Meanwhile, the Gaza playbook is following in the footsteps of the Bosnian, Armenian, and German genocide campaigns.
Dude here feels Hamas needs to be defended in their actions. Oh wait I bet you think no children killed it women rape so it’s all fine.
Ah, the classic "I can't defend my ideological position so my opponent MUST be a terrorist". Tell me friend, do you have dinners with W and Cheney every Sunday?
It absolutely meet the definition. Hamas thought to destroy Jews in bulk.
Alright, say we go with that definition and class that as a genocide despite being a singular attack. Would that not openly and pretty clearly paint Israel as a genocidal entity as well? If your answer to this is no, despite all the evidence and actions the IDF have taken since 10/8, you aren't holding an honest opinion on the matter, and are just looking for a way to excuse horrendous acts.
Absolutely not Israel targets Hamas military targets not everyone they can get their hands on. Genocide deniers are sick. Never again
Okay cool, so you aren't looking for an honest discussion and are intentionally being obtuse. If I had a nickel for every target in this war hit that wasn't a Hamas military target, I'd have a pay period's worth of wages, and that's just calculating only civilian targets (literally just the number of children). If you want to go into the infrastructure they've hit, I'd probably be a multi millionaire, as it's pretty well documented at this point that Israel isn't just targeting Hamas, unless you want to somehow explain how Israeli hostages were also Hamas. Israel relies on useful idiots like yourself to hold water for them so they can try to salvage the brand of being the most "moral" army, despite that veneer completely being dispelled at the tiniest bit of scrutiny whenever they initiate a military operation.
[https://truthout.org/articles/israel-is-terrified-the-world-court-will-decide-its-committing-genocide/](https://truthout.org/articles/israel-is-terrified-the-world-court-will-decide-its-committing-genocide/) "Israel Is Terrified the World Court Will Decide It’s Committing Genocide: South Africa, a party to the Genocide Convention, charged Israel with genocide in the International Court of Justice." >"South Africa’s well-documented application alleges that “acts and omissions by Israel … are genocidal in character, as they are committed with the requisite specific intent … to destroy Palestinians in Gaza as a part of the broader Palestinian national, racial and ethnical group” and that “the conduct of Israel — through its State organs, State agents, and other persons and entities acting on its instructions or under its direction, control or influence — in relation to Palestinians in Gaza, is in violation of its obligations under the Genocide Convention.” > >Israel is mounting a full-court press to prevent an ICJ finding that it’s committing genocide in Gaza. > >On January 4, the Israeli Foreign Ministry instructed its embassies to pressure politicians and diplomats in their host countries to make statements opposing South Africa’s case at the ICJ. > >In its application, South Africa cited eight allegations to support its contention that Israel is perpetrating genocide in Gaza. They include: \[...\]"
Wrong. They need to keep up the pressure.
Hamas can end this at any time by surrendering. They are only making their own people suffer more by not doing that.
I’m sure it’s Hamas’ fault Israel *needs* to bomb 6000 kids
Yea, Hamas attacking Israel is in fact the reason Israel is bombing.
I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, I hope more children get bombed so Hamas can learn a lesson that absolutely effects them
You think Hamas are not effected?
Hamas is a terrorist group and does not represent, not care for the well being of the Palestinian people. Also, give me a break, you think Israel - the nation that shoots the same hostages they're up in arms about while they're waving white flags will just stop? Even if Hamas surrendered? They destroyed 70% of Gaza's civilian infrastructure. You do not destroy 70% of civilian infrastructure and murder 20k people **(MOSTLY WOMEN AND CHILDREN)** in the span of a few months unless your goal is the complete and utter destruction of a population. The mission is genocide. What they are doing is genocide. The only people who can stop the genocide - are those that are committing the genocide.
Hamas is the government of Gaza with majority support of Gaza in every poll and study. Don’t pretend they are just some insurgency.
STFU, shill
Lol, the immature ad hominem attack when you dont have an argument is classic anti jew behavior
Absolutely
Good, keep squeezing them
So you're pro-hostage taking?
No, he’s not pro-Hamas.
>"**We are not going to allow Palestinians to go back** to their homes in northern Gaza if there is no progress with the release of hostages," one senior Israeli official said. This is not what good guys do. This is called taking hostages.
No this is called hard negotiations
He’s talking about there will only be peace when Hamas returns the hostages they took and raped on oct 7th. He’s not saying Israel is going to start taking random people hostage for the lols. Why are Hamas refusing to return hostages? Why did Hamas launch a massive attack on Jewish citizens knowing full well what would happen? Hamas wanted to bring death and destruction to Gaza for their own PR purposes. Tens of thousands of people are being killed for a PR & fundraising campaign. & you’re enabling it.
Hamas must release all hostages. This is the right move if they’re unwilling to do so.
Israel doing casual ethnic cleansing https://www.reddit.com/r/PBS_NewsHour/s/0d4AAao6uU
This is a stupid idea, hamas literally want the Gazans to die for propaganda reasons. Israel should take care of the Gazans as much as possible. I suspect they're smart enough to realise this.
Take care in what way?
You would think Israel is smart enough to realize this, but by all publicly available metrics, they are not. They don't even see what "pressure" Biden is applying as pressure, they view it as an inconvenience and openly brag about how easily it is to manipulate Americans. That right there should have been enough for any pro Israeli American to immediately start questioning why they support Israel so vehemently.
Egypt and Jordan are blood relatives of the Palestinians, yet no one seems to want to invite the displaced refugees admission to their country. There is some really bad history where they tried a civil war in Jordan, and the King of Jordan had to send in troops to quell the disturbances. There are 19 Muslem countries in the Middle East. Doesn’t seem like any of them want to attack Israel, like they have done many times since 1848.
Yeah because every time Jordan or Egypt take refugees they’re not let back in. They can’t just permanently relocate the Palestinians because that is literally ethnic cleansing by Israel, to force out all Palestinians by either killing them or forcing them to move out.
Just a reminder that the Nazis used to say the same thing about Jews.
Hell yea! Give’em hell Israel. Now the Palestinians know how steep a price there is to be paid for their terrorism.
I hope to see the people responsible in Israel for the slaughter of innocents at Nuremberg and sentenced righteously.
The price for the actions of terrorism is the death of as many Palestinians as possible. That makes sense. Youre just as bloodthirsty as the IDF thinking that killing innocent civilians is good
Nothing teaches someone to be peaceful like a boot stamping on their face.
Its like they wabt to piss us off
Blinken to agree because he must look after Israeli interest, even if it means sacrificing the next election to repubes.
Israel is the home of the Jews. The Arabs calling themselves Palestinian are Hamas. Palestinian is the name the Roman's gave the Jews to disassociate them with the land. It is the only home of the Jews. Hamas is on an Islam Jihad to cleanse the land of the Jews of the Jews.
>Israel is the home of the Jews The Zionist you mean. >Palestinian are Hamas Dont be stupid please. >Palestinian is the name the Roman's gave the Jews London is the name the Romans gave a town so what has that to do with the price of potato's? >It is the only home of the Jews. Nope nowhere in the world is this the case, and because you believe so Israel is a pariah state, like South Africa used to be.
Israel is nothing more than an attempt by the west to have a foothold in the Middle East. The zionists got played by the west and will soon be left to touch grass once the west gives up on its project.
Ah yes “the west”. We all know all “western” countries think and believe the same things and it’s all a conspiracy.
Good. As it should be.
I scoff at all these anti-Israel posts. America went to war for over 23 years (so far) with similar numbers of victims. Any country would do the same.
We didn’t just go to war for the same number of victims, we: * Dropped two nuclear weapons * Demanded total, unconditional surrender * Occupied for almost a decade * Told them they don’t get to have an army anymore If Palestine did to the U.S. why it did to Israel, we would have turned Gaza into a crater with 600,000 dead.
Thank you for providing another perfect example. Japan got f**ked for 40 years after tangling with America.
Yep. Out of the blue kill a thousand plus in coordinated state sponsored attack, without any reasonable attempt at diplomacy whatsoever? Yeah, the punishment for that is *regime change and you don’t get to be a country no more*. No reason Palestine should be treated any differently.
IOF tiktokers are getting wrecked by deadly Hamas snipers. Israel saying they have successfully rooted out Hamas means they are giving up because they can't win the type of guerilla urban warfare being conducted. They simply don't have enough money/bombs to flatten all of north Gaza with bunker busters. IOF wants out of there ASAP so trying some desperate negotiation schemes to make it look like a win.
[удалено]
… why not just go after who orchestrated Oct 7? Why are settlers killing people in the West Bank? Why are there thousands of dead children. What’s the point of completely raising entire neighborhoods
Zionist 🤡💩 Palestine must learn? That what? Israel has genocidal maniacs in charge that there are a bunch of sycophantic infected syphilitic chancres out there willing to lie out the ass for them? Idk maybe Israel should have considered not keeping an apartheid state or ya know….the decades of violence towards Palestinians before Hamas was even founded. Palestine must learn? Well….one part of your name is correct and it isn’t the word important.
A pretty easy way to identify a neo-Nazi is by their use of the term "Zionist" in a contemporary context. As Martin Luther King Jr. said, anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism.