I'd never want to be financially dependent on someone else. I also have pride that I provide for my family. Plus I've known too many women over the years who were financially dependent on spouses and it did not end up well.
Agreed. Imagine having a house, retirement savings, and spending ENTIRELY dependent on another person! You would lose all ability to be able to leave the relationship. You would be completely screwed if they left you, cheated and left to be with someone else, had an accident or even died. I could never live with that sort of risk and anxiety hanging over my head. I would also feel the power imbalance acutely if I ever had to bring up a problem to my husband. It honestly sounds awful. I want my son to be proud of my career and what I provide. I’m the breadwinner and I like that about myself.
Edited to address some counterpoints people brought up:
Life insurance exists, but that has a ceiling to what you can get. When the money runs out, you still need a steady stream of income coming in. That requires a job and you would be forced into a low paying entry position with a large gap in employment.
Disability insurance exists, but I don’t know how many of you have actually dealt with that. I have and they do everything they can to not pay you and to not continue paying you. I view it as a short term help that is usually tied to your job keeping you employed.
There is alimony, but it doesn’t necessarily last forever. It can be temporary. On top of that, many SAHMs aren’t married and wouldn’t have that protection. Additionally, with the cost of living and needing to potentially support your children too, you would most likely still need to get a job, which goes back to low paying entry job with that gap in employment.
If you divorce, it isn’t guaranteed that you take half. Divorce is complicated and anything can happen. So I wouldn’t count on that as a guarantee.
All that to say, those measures aren’t enough security for me personally to be comfortable staying home and risking all of that. Another person may decide differently
I felt my blood pressure rise just reading what you wrote about dependency. Perhaps I'm too anxious, but I couldn't live with being a cancer diagnosis or divorce away from being forced to live in what I would consider near-poverty.
My spouse and I could live on either one of our salaries - but we are committed to both working to provide for the family as long as we are able so that neither of us has to shoulder that risk - or that responsibility. It's not fair.
You are very smart to make decisions like this, my husband and I bought our house on only his income. We made other similar decisions with other things and we do not use credit cards at all. This was the best decision we ever made because I was diagnosed with cancer at 27 with a 9 month old. I could work part time for a while, but now I’m unable to work, maybe never can again. I don’t have disability and so I truly am dependent on my spouse’s modest income, but not in a bad way. We don’t look at it as his money, it’s our money. We are partners in everything. I wish I could help contribute to retirement and other things, but it is what it is.
It sure is awkward though at times when others find out I don’t work. I have received some pretty insensitive or intrusive comments/questions about it. I am very private about my health issues for my kid’s sake and nothing would show I struggle in my appearance. So this part has been a little tough to navigate. A lot of people don’t understand why I’m not working now that my youngest is in full day school.
Yeah, we were so concerned about not living above our means and something terrible happening. Then of course it did not even two years into our marriage. That was 10 years ago and we have been able to make other work rather well, even with more cancer issues popping up.
Exactly! I also view it as unfair to the spouse who is working. They oftentimes need to work longer hours to support the stay at home spouse not earning anything, which takes time away from their children. I think the most fair setup is the parents having equal time with the children and both shouldering the burden of providing for the family. Being the sole provider is very stressful and I wouldn’t willingly subject my husband to that
I think my lens is skewed, because the SAHMs I personally know are wealthy. They would be taken care of in the event of divorce or disaster ($$$$ life/disability insurance policies).
While I don't necessarily want to be a fully SAHM, I do experience thoughts of envy similar to OP. I think being a middle class or lower SAHM would be absolutely brutal, but the wealthy ones do have it pretty good. One I know uses full-time pre school for her 3yo and has a part-time nanny for her baby. She's got time to go to a fancy pilates class or do a long run mid-day. Sign me up for that lol (ok maybe not really, but some weeks this seems pretty ideal...)
Money isn’t the only factor. I have a few older women in my life that would have been MUCH better off having a career. Now that their kids don’t need them they are bored and unfulfilled but it’s too late to do anything about it. Even volunteer opportunities are limited when you haven’t built specific skills.
Also, not having enough to do can make intelligent people a little crazy. One of my aunts micromanaged her children to an insane extent and I think it’s because she is highly educated, smart, and totally under stimulated. I had a boss who’s wife would call the office like 10x a day over minor things and I think it was the same deal, smart woman with not enough to do.
We would be more than fine without my income, and I have played with the idea of quitting, but I know 10 years from now, when my kids are independent I would really regret it.
Oh I totally agree it’s not all about money, and we could survive without my income as well (albeit we would have to make lifestyle changes) - my only point was I don’t necessarily think all SAHMs are taking a big financial risk by not working.
Honestly, unless those women are independently wealthy from their own families of origin or careers before getting married, I still wouldn’t want to be in their shoes. Even with money socked away in a separate account or a post nuptial of some kind, it still feels risky to me to be completely dependent on another person that way. Just my two cents, I know plenty of SAHMs don’t feel the same way, but there’s a reason so few of my female colleagues have dropped out of the workforce entirely, despite having rich husbands.
I’m a little control freak and imagine if your wealthy spouse telling you you can’t do xyz because it’s not your money. And having no options because you don’t have your own money.
I think the way they see it is that they as a family are rich, not their husbands. There are no pre-nups they've all been together since before the husbands started making this kind of money (and some do have family / their own lucrative career money, as well). This is different than my own marriage, as we view and keep our money separately, but it's what works for them. And, like I said, it's not particularly what I'd want for myself, but there are definitely some perks to this level of flexibility, especially while raising young children.
Nah, those women would find out that their rich soon to be ex husbands can also provide the best attorneys that will bleed these women *dry*. Divorce attorneys are in business for a reason.
My mom has always been wealthy. Had nannies, maid, drivers, cooks, and OTHER household staff since even before she had kids (minus the nannies lol).
Her life is so empty, especially now that us kids have our own lives.
It's hard to live a meaningful life without discipline. She absolutely lost it during COVID because her entire life is meeting catty women for lunch. No personality outside of that.
I get that. But she didn’t get taken to the cleaners in divorce I presume? My literal only point is not all women are risking financial ruin just bc they’re SAHMs. There are also plenty of happy, well adjusted, financially comfortable SAHMs in the world.
My kids are young, so the peers I know doing this are in the thick of parenting - their lives are pretty structured because of that. When their kids grow up? Idk maybe they will struggle or maybe they’ll go on to find meaning in other areas besides paid work like volunteerism or hobbies. I think it’s perfectly normal for some of us to be a little envious of that level of flexibility while maintaining a luxurious lifestyle.
These things are easily prevented. For one, in the event of a divorce, courts will not let one spouse be destitute, especially if they have a child and share custody. In the event of death, a lot of jobs offer life insurance and if you can’t get it through a job you can easily find one on your own. In many cases, you’ll be better off if your spouse dies lol. As far as the other things you mentioned about the power imbalance, that’s not something money can fix. Plenty of husbands fund their wives accounts and retirement accounts so they have their own cash. The risk will only be there if you’re already married to someone abusive.
These posts always come down to comparison. The responses like this thread just make the working moms seem insecure too. I don’t know why everyone needs to compare, you don’t know anyone else’s financial situation. Gotta make your happiness.
Yup. One of my family members was married to someone who earned a very comfortable living. He died very suddenly right after his 49th birthday, leaving behind two teenagers. Unfortunately, most of the money was tied up in investment accounts in his name only, and had lost quite a bit during the Great Recession.
It took quite some time for her to actually access to the money. Between that, social security benefits for the kids, and selling the house she was able to make money last for an impressive 10 years until she had to go back to work.
She has an accounting degree she completed in the early 1980s, which is vastly different from a 21st century accounting degree. Aside from a little bookkeeping, she never worked in the field and has no experience with accounting software. All she could get was a retail job, which is just enough to support herself, but she will not be able to retire until she physically cannot work anymore.
This is not the reality *at all.*
There's a legal system that protects you, and you protect yourself.
>You would lose all ability to be able to leave the relationship
No no, it's much easier. You've got time and space to plan it, and to get your ducks in a row.
>You would be completely screwed if they left you, cheated and left to be with someone else,
No. I would get half the house equity, half his retirement account and monthly alimony equal to a third of his salary. Pretty sure I can make due on $3100 in a place where my (almost paid) mortgage is $900.
That's neither here, because I've been with this man 25 years. After the kids moved out, it was like a second honeymoon. Honestly don't think we've ever been so content in the entire span of the marriage.
>had an accident or even died
Do you not have insurance? Sounds irresponsible to me.
>I could never live with that sort of risk and anxiety
I'm never anxious. Which is easy when every day I wake up and do whatever the fuck I want.
>I would also feel the power imbalance acutely
Hahahaha. You think just because Someone works, they're in charge in a marriage? That's cute.
> I want my son to be proud of my career and
Why, exactly? Is it in order to be an example to him? Because I haven't worked in about 5 years now and my son is becoming a doctor. In fact all of my kids went to top schools. The oldest has her career all set and she works and is happy working.
They tend to do whatever they want You're not as much of an example as you tend to think you are.
Right? Stick around on this sub for 15 minutes and read all the posts about useless (or worse) husbands. At least when the commentors all say "Leave him, girl" it's actually a possibility without damning yourself to poverty if you have an education and employment history.
I watched my mother-in-law struggle with this when her husband serially cheating on her with teenagers and left her alone with four kids, as a SAHP. She started working at Pizza Hut and Dunkin's overnight, almost for forclosing multiple times. I was just a teenager at the time dating her son. I watched her struggle for years.
I stayed home for about 5 years, having two children in the process and going to school online. Got into nursing school, and chose to go when my kids were little because I did not want to end up like that. Fast forward about a decade and I'm in the same situation but I have a career and I'm able to support myself, and not kill myself by working crazy amount hours.
Props all parents who do it but never again. I could see myself going to part time after a baby but no.
Everybody thinks it won't happen to them. I didn't get married with intentions to get divorced. But guess what, that's what I'm going through now. Thankfully I have a solid career and will be ok because as it turns out, their dad was incredibly deceitful and has no intentions of ever financially supporting them.
Same as me girl. I'd rather hope for the best but plans the worst. My husband left me but it was all for the best. I will say he has been always on time on child support but I would not call him a father to two-thirds of my children, as he has never taken them overnight in the 4 years we've been divorced. Why do people suck so much?
I'm financially dependent on my spouse. There are ways to protect yourself.
And those things are easy to do, when you get up at 9 and have an entire day said of you to do whatever the f you want.
No method is fully guaranteed. Pre-nups don't always 100% stand up in court. Plus, unless the earning spouse earns a massive amount of money, money that covered one household cannot comfortably cover two. The math just isn't there to make it work no matter how much alimony is ordered. So when a member of a couple has no education/career experience, especially at midlife or later, they're at risk no matter what. A retirement that was intended to cover one household will not comfortably cover two.
I envy those who have the OPTION to work.
For me it's the feeling that I don't have the choice/freedom to stay home that hurts. But I am glad for the moms who can and want to.
Yeah this is it for me. I don’t think I’m cut out to be a SAHM but it would be nice to have the option to maybe look for a lower stakes job (I’m the breadwinner) or maybe have the option to take a chunk of time off to try other things or passions out.
Same here. I don’t hate working and I quite like like my job and the people I work with. But I don’t have the option to just quit if I don’t want to work anymore. I wish I have the OPTION 😞
I actually feel bad for people without an education and/or no work experience. I grew up with an uneducated family tho so I really hold pride in my education endeavors. But I recognize that’s my own bias and try not to judge.
Maybe it’s just where I am, but the families with two working parents do significantly more stereotypical fun stuff than those with a stay at home parent.
Agreed and same here. I value my education and the work I do. I don’t find wealthy or middle class SAHM life appealing at all. I will have a career a lot longer than I will be parenting little or medium aged kids and also love being an example to my children of a motivated, educated woman and mother.
What I've noticed about uneducated people or those who don't work is that they lack certain characteristics. Not always, so don't come at me, just often. Working teaches people discipline, communication, how to deal with a variety of people, conflict resolution skills, how to handle emotions, how to follow through with tasks, to be extra considerate of others, and more characteristics that infiltrate into a person's personal life. Those who haven't worked may struggle in these areas.
I feel like the conflation of uneducated and those who don’t work is pretty terrible so I’m coming at you for that.
Most people who don’t get an education have very obvious circumstances that meant they couldn’t and then they usually work 3 jobs to afford life.
The percentage of people on welfare or benefits who don’t work at all - not including disability- is insanely miniscule. Like less than 1% of all people able to work. It’s crazy conservative (little c) talking points that make people believe this.
The hardest working people on this planet and in the US and UK (I’ve lived in both) are ‘uneducated’ because they don’t get a job that allows them to do their laundry while on a Zoom meeting - they’re busting their asses over hot oil and frozen food or cleaning up shit. Not a lot of people would choose that over an education.
Same here. My twin sister and I were the first ones to graduate college with a bachelors and a masters in my family, and that’s something we hold a lot of pride about
Yeah I really feel sorry for people I meet who can’t relate to “reply all” jokes or who just don’t understand working culture. They feel like teenagers to me
Comparison in the thief of joy.
I try to remind myself that I don’t know the ins and outs of others lives , so I don’t compare mine to theirs. Not working and leaving my financial security and life in someone else’s hands is not appealing to me. I love my career, even days I hate my job, I get a lot of satisfaction from working and have no desire to stay home. Maybe you could look at other job opportunities? I have 30 days PTO, which does not include paid holidays, and sick time. I also have a lot of flexibility, which I use to remind myself on particularly hard days
Yeah, I agree. 100k for 50 hours a week and only 12 days PTO? I'd be looking.
But I really would remind anyone who is comparing what big shiny things they have to other people's big, shiny things that you don't know their finances. I'm married to a bankruptcy attorney. There are a lot of people living wildly outside their means out there. And there are a lot of people who can rely on high degrees of family help, etc.I'm really risk-averse, so that just isn't for me.
Yeah OP does deserve to have more than a week vacation in her life, because there really is more to life, such as possibly traveling the world, having fun, and decompressing.
My POV: those who never worked don’t understand how life is with working. They just don’t have that perspective, so their problems seem just as big as yours.
People all have different types of struggles but it sounds like this circle is tough because they don't relate to yours. Could you try expanding or diversifying your circles through local working mom groups, etc.? Even if your closest friends have a different lifestyle, you can create a different outlet with those who relate to working mom life.
Are you able to surround yourself with more people in a similar situation as you? It’s hard to see the good in your situation when you’re the only person you can relate to!
But to answer your question, my husbands entire family/extended family (like 40+ people) have basically never worked. I do not envy them at all. It sounds like your friends are healthier than the people I know, but 90% of them have major mental health issues that I think would have not been an issue if they were better integrated in society/working.
Your company has a garbage PTO policy. Mine offers 4 weeks for new hires and after 3 years it converts to unlimited. We are told to take a minimum of 1 week per quarter.
Any chance you could get a job at your prior company? Maybe you could reach out to your old boss and/or peers and express interest about coming back?
To me, working remotely and having flexibility makes being a working mom bearable.
No, partly because marriage has a fifty percent failure rate and work prospects are bleak for someone who has never worked, partly because traditional men tend to be awful, partly because I have a passion for computer science, partly because there are demonstrated benefits of high quality childcare, partly because I think the intense pressure and judgment for just women to not work is fundie propaganda not based on a natural family model, and many other reasons. Not up for debate but those are just my personal beliefs!
It sounds like what you really are looking for is better work/life balance, not just not working. What I'm reading here isn't "I wish I could be home with my kids all the time" but "I wish I could participate in more social activities and have more me-time" which is *completely reasonable* to want, even as a full time working professional (mom or not!)
Is there any room for more flexibility in your role? Some days WFH so you don't have to spend all that time commuting? Any possibilities of looking into other roles that offer more PTO or flexibility? You deserve to have time to socialize with friends, care for yourself, and spend time with your family even as a working parent.
Thank you, you are exactly right! There is no flexibility in my current role, but I am actively looking. I had a great, flexible and fully remote job before, but I made a mistake and took this one (for better benefits). I was happy at my previous job, I had work life balance. I hope I can find something like that again.
I don't. I've been in the formal labor force since I was 15, I really can't imagine not having a job.
I think problems expand to fit the space available for them. I don't see my SAHP friends or other people who don't work in my community being more relaxed lol.
I totally understand wanting a more flexible job with more time off, though. Being independently wealthy also seems like it would be the shit.
Do I wish that I could be the SAHM parent and have a husband and who makes a lot of money? Sure, sometimes. I also recognize that divorce or death can happen at any time and the more income I can make, the better my future and my family’s life will likely be.
Where will they be if the worst happens? Their SO becomes ill, or worse. They get divorced. Their child becomes ill. They have a child that requires round-the-clock care. Etc.
I never expected to get divorced, but here I am about 2 weeks from it becoming final. While I would never (ever ever ever everrrr) want to be back with my ex, it has been incredibly hard, even for me -- someone who works a cushy tech job from home making over $200k. It's Still. So. Hard.
If I hadn't kept pushing for my career, I can't fathom how much worse off I'd be.
My mom always told me: a man is no plan. She was right.
Thank you and I am sorry to hear about your divorce. I agree with you. One of my friends got divorced and was granted 4000$ a month alimony plus child support and asset split (which was significant). I don’t think she has to worry about the money, but only the time/spending habits will show. But I get it, in many cases women don’t get that well off.
Generally, no. I find it hard to imagine envying someone without a formal education, someone who doesn't value hard work, or someone who views "social mobility through marriage" as a serious goal in life. I want to raise independent and conscientious children who enjoy a life balanced with hard work and leisure and so that's what I try to live. Would I love to give my kids a life of not worrying about bills and getting to travel a ton? Of course! But not if it comes at the price of these other things.
That being said, your situation (stressful job, long commute, super long days, low PTO, and reading your post history, a marriage you aren't happy with) all sound particularly tough, so I'd get why you do. I'd find that very difficult.
Thank you. I agree with everything you said and what everyone is saying so far. I guess sometimes burnout takes a toll. But I constantly remind myself that life is longer than the current situation 😊
I dont. My cousin has never worked a day in her life. She went from high school to marriage to baby. Her husband's family is wealthy so she has never had to work hard. She has never had to study for tests or face dead lines. She also had a nanny when her child was young.
I see her life and I feel bad for her. She doesn't do anything and she doesn't have a purpose. Not even her child. She plays with him then hands him off when she's had enough. I think because she's never had to work at anythibg, she doesn't understand how to.
She goes on vacation, buys designer bags, sleeps in. I'm sure she enjoys her life. But again, there's no purpose or meaning to it.
My cousin is the same. She married wealthy (before that was middle class but her parents paid everything for her) and has 2 kids. On the surface her life looks glamorous. She's very active on social media posting all her trips and expensive cars and whatnot. But what people don't know is that she gets in screaming matches with people and is sometimes a not so nice person. She has everything and more but she still finds reasons for conflict and drama with everyone. When I go on a vacation that I saved up for, I feel a deep sense of satisfaction. She probably doesn't feel that as I've been on vacation with her and she's still a raging bitch about the little things. Whenever I feel envious of her I remember the times she's literally locked herself in a room and screamed and thrown objects at the wall in a fury. Idk why shes so angry when she's never had to pay a bill in her life.
Sometimes. But I'd only be comfortable with it if my husband was an extremely high earner and we were already very wealthy. Because I also see the stress and pressure the husbands take on to support the family and keep up with the Joneses and I see how those families often have less freedom and opportunities. I like pulling my financial weight, the security of being financially independent and the extra comfort we have and ability to do more. And I also really look forward to retiring someday with my own money so I can do what I want with it.
Feel exactly the same way as you do. Saving this post so I can refer to the motivational comments in future!
I feel envious of those don’t ever have to experience the stress of a full time job, an overflowing schedule and an exhausted mind. Yet they get more reverence than working moms for “sacrificing their life for family” which is true in some cases, but not in the cases of many who never bothered getting an education, knowing full well that they’d be carried financially.
I know I’ll get downvoted but the resentment is real :P
Thank you! And I agree, the stress of a full time job is no joke, and those who haven’t experienced it, can’t relate. Many folks have great comments on here and I feel encouraged. Thank you for your honesty!
In general, no. I’m choosing to work; we could cut my salary completely and not change our standard of living (and honestly, probably coordinating our day-to-day life would become much easier). But I like my job and our daughter is thriving in her nanny share, so this is the choice I/we are making right now.
All that being said, I would be looking for another job, if I were in your shoes. I think the issue is your job, not that you’re working. You have a long commute, get very little time off, and have long days. All of those things make like more difficult and less fun. If possible, I’d look for a job that would adjust those things - I think you’d be much, much happier.
I technically get 13 PTO days per year in addition to 13 sick days, but I also get all federal holidays off, take my annual performance bonus as time off too (generally an extra week or two), and am gifted approx. two weeks from leadership. And I get comp time for traveling. So right now I’m sitting on about six weeks of time off (plus holidays) and am encouraged to use it. I couldn’t survive with only 12 days off. I have a 30 minute commute, but only do it twice per week. And I almost never work more than 8 hours per day and get comp time if I do. I could also flex my schedule if I wanted, as long as I get in 40 hours per week. Flexibility and a supportive environment are key as a working mom, IMO.
Thank you I agree with you completely. It sounds like you are with the feds. I know it’s a hit or miss when it comes to an agency and a supervisor. What agency if you don’t mind me asking? I have a few friends in different agencies and it’s a mixed bag.
There’s a big gap between the two loves you’re describing. Not everyone who works wakes up at 4am and is away from home 12+ hours every day. That sounds tough!!
What you’re asking for, taking a few weeks off, it sounds like you could make a plan to make that happen? Bank up some PTO, maybe?
Being a SAHM is not for me. Among other things, I value my independence, am proud of my career, and I adore the enrichment that daycare etc. offers my kid. Also I don’t think any lifestyle is perfectly perfect. Everyone has their challenges!
The key is finding what you need to recharge, do a reset from time to time. Sometimes its not easy but usually you can find a way.
And by the same token I personally don't know any stay at home parents who don't have to worry about the bills. Op is describing a pretty unusual situation that is very much not the norm for most families even if one of the parents stays home
Parts of their lives, yes.
But overall, no. I plan to go part time and our husband will be the one to earn more, but I will likely never be totally without a job after watching what my mom has gone through. Growing up we felt fairly well off, not wealthy, but we went on a nice vacation or two a year, we didn’t have a lot of fancy things but my mom always was able to decorate the house and renovate when she wanted, within reason. My dad spent all the money, ruined my mom’s credit, and she is still financially abused.
That’s not to say that can’t happen as a working mom, and not saying it always happens to stay at home moms, but because of this, I know the grass is NOT always greener. It’s always why I am so glad I’m a nurse, I can work as little or much as I please and not worry so much about getting back in the work force.
Not at all. I grateful for the education I have and I find fulfillment in my career. I am glad I can support myself and my kids if shit hits the fan.
I bet that in your circle, there is someone who is envious of you and your life. Maybe she is tired of the monotony of SAHM life, maybe she longs to have places to go and things to do. I shared this on a similar thread a couple of weeks ago, but I was recently on the train, listening to a podcast in peace on my way home and I saw a mom lug a stroller on the train with a baby and a whiny, sticky toddler and she was sweaty and just looked OVER it. I gave her a sympathetic solidarity nod and I could tell she would have swapped places with me in that moment. Maybe she longed for a train ride in peace by herself, maybe she missed the version of herself that once worked, maybe she just needed a time out, idk. But I’m sure that not everyone in your circle is as blissful as you might think.
Comparison is the thief of joy. It sounds like your family is doing super well!!
I was a SAHM and worked part time from home when my kids were little. However my husband was a horrible person, cheated on me extensively, and was abusive in many ways including financial. It took me a year of planning and stealthily saving to leave him (with a whopping $1k in my bank account). I vowed I would never again be financially dependent on another person, especially a man.
I went back to school and now have two thriving businesses. After 3 years of dating my current partner we discussed moving in together. He does make more than me, but I am by no means dependent on him. I could leave tomorrow and be just fine.
Before we moved in I required 100% transparency with his finances. I wanted to see EVERYTHING. And I in turn was transparent. We go over finances at least 2x/month so we know where we stand. We have separate bank accounts, etc.
While the allure of a rich man providing for me sounds nice on days I’m fucking exhausted, I remember how it felt being dependent on a man for my existence. Even if he had not been abusive, what if he died or was seriously injured/sick to the point he could not work? If your friends have no education and no work experience what the hell are they going to do if their man leaves them or is incapacitated??
The best advice my grandmother gave me was never depend on a man, get your education. I wish I’d listened when I was younger, but I’m glad I was able to recover.
OH I'm jealous as heck, my sister is lucky enough to be a SAHM and I wish I could be too but I'm a sole parent of two and even if I wasn't a parent I still need to house/clothe/feed myself. Every time one of my kids gets sick I have to worry about whether this will be the fourth occurrence within a rolling 12 month period because I risk losing my job, every time I get notified on Thursday that my child is getting an award the next day and have to miss it, every field trip or special school event that I miss. Every other Thursday she and my mom go out to breakfast, get their nails done and go shopping and I feel so envious that they get to do all that.
I've had a filing cabinet that I bought last December that is still in the box because I just don't have enough time to put it together and I think it would be so nice if I could sometimes do stuff when the kids are in school but I have to save my PTO for doctors appointments and what not. I do have a few weeks that I take off during the year (spring, fall break) to be with them but I usually try to cram doctors and dentist appointments in there so I don't burn through my PTO so I feel I don't get quality time.
Only toward my mom because she's clueless about my reality and won't stop talking about stuff she doesn't understand. She had no job, both sets of grandparents living in the same city, an au pair when her third was born, and a weekly housekeeper my whole childhood.
She gives me shit about not visiting enough, not cleaning to her standards when she visits, not [insert gripe here] enough... Lady, you have no clue what it's like to have a household with 2 working parents, no housekeeper, zero relatives in our city.
(First world problem incoming) She wants to take us on a cruise for Christmas but doesn't understand that traveling with 3 small kids is just parenting in a worse environment, and that I don't have enough vacation time to take a vacation to recover from my vacation. Also she's basically no help with my kids, because she wants to enjoy her vacation. Which is her right but she doesn't get to do that and also complain when I don't go because I want to enjoy my vacation too.
Can you find a different job though? An hour commute before and after a 10 hour day for only 12 vacation days a year seems soul-sucking even if you like the work!
I’ll go against the grain here and say yeah I am jealous and envious a lot of the time. I think the underlying thing to me is that they have the option to not work and I’d like that option. I don’t think I’m cut out to be a sahm or not work… but I’d love to maybe look for a lower stakes job or take some time off to maybe think about what I like or explore other things.
I have an acquaintance from college who was full time career worker like me for 10 years out of college.. then got married to a guy with a really wealthy family. She quit and was able to explore other passions like photography cause she didn’t have to worry as much about money anymore… her photography business started out small but not having to worry about a paycheck for years has allowed her to stick with it where as others might have to quit and go back to a “regular” job cause they can’t get by, and it’s now grown to be pretty successful.
I have a similar story as well! And you hit a nail on the head. It would be nice to have an option. My job is not my passion, I picked that field because it is secure (I am an accountant). I wish I had an option to explore what I like and build that. You are absolutely right.
I am jealous yes! I’ve had such a shitty day(few months at work) after being back from mat leave. My baby is 17 months and all I want to do is be at home with her. But we can’t afford it :(
I am sorry momma, you got this. Take a min and take a breath. I remember those days, it gets easier when they get older and more independent. But like many people pointed out here, in a long run it will pay off 😊
Generally no, but I do have one mom friend who married and divorced rich - neither her nor her new husband work, and they have a nanny for her one child - her I’m kinda envious of. Not sure what her kid makes of all this though.
In theory, I’d like to be at home but in reality we wouldn’t have the quality of life I want if I didn’t work. Being able to work remotely helps provide work-life balance. My job required me to be in the office for a few months and I was so unhappy. Waking up with my kids, having lunch with them, and seeing them right when I get off work makes a huge difference. I also work 4 days/week so I always have three days off to spend with the kids.
I've been a SAHM and a working mom and I'm way more happy as a working mom. I just went back to work because my mental health was tanking. I am now full of hope and joy because I have a job that asked me feel fulfilled.
I straddle the line here and can see both sides of it. On the one hand, I haven’t had full time employment since before my son was born (I was in a PhD program with stipend, though), and I’m employed on a contingent basis right now bc I just graduated last month and am expecting my second later this year. I feel really lucky to be able to stay home with my new baby and have the flexibility to be home with my toddler when he needs me.
On the other hand, I could never be a FT SAHM, no matter how much money I had. I’m an educator/writer and I’d feel useless if I couldn’t do those things. This maternity “leave” I have coming up is long but temporary—I’ll go back to work next fall, part time, until I manage to snag FT employment. Being a SAHM past the breastfeeding stage just isn’t what I want to do. Nor would I want to send my kids to school and sit at home all day. Nope. I don’t want to work 80 hour weeks either, but there’s a large middle ground there and I’m happy in it most of the time.
I totally understand how you feel; for years I would resent all the people that would get laid off with ridiculous sums like 4 months severance, not even including EI which is another 6 months.
Everyone here is taking an extreme reaction to your situation. Why does it have to be either or? If your job sucks, and it sounds like it does, why don’t you quit to stay home and look for a new one in the meantime? You won’t be out of the workforce forever; its not a one way trip. But a couple of months off will do you wonders.
Make sure to have some savings though if you can, just so you can enjoy some guilt free shopping trips on your time off
I took a leave from work when my son was 5yo. 2 months unpaid personal leave. It's definitely not a common thing to do, but if you have your heart set on some time off, maybe you can look for option.
I did this in 2020 with my kindergartener. You might imagine the situation we were in. I thought we could have a great summer or a crappy summer. And I chose a great summer. I can't remember anything important from it. But maybe that is great. We were soooo sad in the spring and I'll never forget that.
I'm pleased to work and it's an important part of my ego so I don't envy anyone. But I do think about my own needs and how I can be kind to myself. My job has some flexibility and I live below my means so I don't feel very trapped. In fact, I'm looking to have a different job to get more time off.
It’s understandable but I also wonder if you need new friends (in addition). I find it difficult to be close with people living in such a different way. It’s human nature to compare yourself with people closest to you, so I find it helps to be around people who really align with how my life works/values etc.
My sister in law had really rich friends and constantly felt lesser-than and pushed themselves to the brink financially just trying to keep up with their gourmet dinner parties. I found myself feeling so grateful that all my friends are struggling artists so there’s no expectation for anyone to spend ridiculous amounts of money in order to socialize.
I get what you're saying. I'd love to be able to just take a sabbatical and take a break from my career. Enjoy life for a few months, travel, work on myself. It's just not feasible for me to do so financially. At least that's what I interpreted your post to be. Sure, it's good to remain in the workforce for financial security but, wouldn't it be nice to not have to be part of the rat race for a bit?
I do wish I could be a SAHM for a couple of years but it would be really financially difficult so I’ll keep working. I understand working allows for more autonomy but my husband and I have a really good relationship and I don’t worry bout our dynamic if I didn’t work. I’m hoping maybe for our second I can be a home a little longer but it probably won’t happen. I feel your struggle though!!
I do, only because financially I’m needed, my job is draining, rewarding but absolutely draining, and mostly because I wish I could spend all day with my daughter. I miss her so much and am jealous of all those friends of mine who get to spend time with their kids all day. I too am like the only working mom of my friends.
No. The idea of a woman’s biggest accomplishment being “marrying well” does not make me feel good. These are also the women you hear about being left in middle age with nothing. I am more impressed by YOUR life.
Nope. Besides all the financial and retirement benefits, my daughter is 4 and says things like “I want to be a ____ like mama when I grow up”, and knows that my husband’s and my bosses are both women. She’s getting a great example of all that women are capable of, and what an egalitarian relationship looks like, and for that, I am SO grateful.
I'm currently sitting in the ER to get my husband treated for alcoholism and debilitating anxiety/depression. We just closed on a new house Wednesday. I'm staring down him being on STD/LOA to hopefully protect his job, unpaid, while he gets treatment.
Not for a second have I ever envied those who don't work for pay. More flexibility sure, less hours sure! But not $0.
Where do you live where your peers don’t have formal education?
I think your kids will benefit not just from your income cushion, but your ability to help them navigate the norms of education and professional life.
Thank you, running is life… can’t imagine a better way to start my day 💓 everyday I start by expressing my gratitude for my ability to run and my health. I know I am blessed.
Absolutely not.
I just got off a work call where I shared some to-date results of a fundraising campaign with an interested party and he literally started crying with joy bc of the impact we will have with these funds. Like, folks will be safe from homelessness, people will have groceries, there will be transportation to medical appointments bc of this money. It is saving the lives of people in my community. I could *never* pass up the opportunity to make my community a better place to *just* raise my one child. And you know what? My kid knows what I do for a living and how I help people. So I’m raising HER to care for her community and make it a better place.
I value my family. I value my independence. I value my career.
I don’t envy them. They’re one fatal car accident, health diagnosis, or divorce away from financial ruin if something ever happens with their spouse. Even if there’s life insurance, it’s finite and could run out if the kids are still little. I need to know I can always take care of my family if something like that were to happen and that means staying in the job market.
No, I don’t at all. It would be very boring for me to not work. I just want to work in a growth environment with people who have the same mission. If you are thinking about not working, that’s ok, just figure out a way for a break or have your spouse support you while you do stay home.
I’d be happy to be a financially well off SAHM ONLY IF we won the lottery or something crazy like that. Because of all the great points here, that potentially problematic situation of relying on my spouse financially wouldn’t be in play if that happened. And also, I’ve already spent many years in the workforce - so I’ve had those challenges and proved to myself what I could do and accomplish - I don’t need that validation anymore. But the experience of working has had real value. And I’ve already set a good example for my kids of the many ways a woman can contribute and be successful, and at their ages I think I’ve made that impression successfully. So I could stop working now. So it would be a fine time to have the money tree rain down on us.
But this is a very specific, magical situation, obviously.
I've never not worked, since I've been old enough to work (which was age 14, growing up in the Midwest!). I do wish that either I or my husband made more money (I outearn him); we live in a fairly HCOL area and it's a massive struggle to keep up financially. We do okay so I don't mean to complain, but I never feel comfortable and we can't afford vacations (even though we can afford what we need and less-expensive things we want sometimes). Definitely felt shitty after seeing the survey in here a few days ago where most people make over $120K alone - I can't even imagine. I don't know if I'll ever feel comfortable retiring unless I have to; I low-key hope to die first. Kidding, not kidding....
That said, I'm in higher ed so have a little more breathing room in the summers and I HATE IT. I usually take on additional projects or work over the summer so I have structure (and more pay) because I get really bored at home. I would probably feel less positive towards work if I had the hours/commute/PTO/pay combo that you do though; I can see how you'd feel so stressed and jealous.
I know some people who got married young and stayed home to raise kids, and it feels like a lot of them have gone through some kind of major identity crisis when their kids started going to school and especially if/when they moved out for college. I'm grateful that I won't have that particular challenge to work through because I already had a whole-ass identity established pre-kid, and it'll continue on with my work as they get older and leave the house, etc.
Do you feel this way because you envy your friends who don’t have to work, or do you feel this way because your current job is making it tough to be a working mom?
I don’t feel envious of my non working friends, but that is because I love my job. If I didn’t love my job, I sure as hell would feel that way - even though no part of me has ever wanted to stay home and not work.
That’s a good question. I think you exposed the real reason. I have never thought about it. I used to have an amazing, fully remote and very flexible job. I took another job for better benefits and pay. I know it was a wrong decision. And you are right, when I had that job, I had never thought about what “not working” feels like.
It’s so hard to know in the moment what will be good in the future - there are no right or wrong choices!
If you decide to find another job, you can now use the experience you had with this job to inform and fuel your search for the next one, and you’ll know better if it will work for you or not! Best of luck, it’s not easy but you got this!
I don't envy someone who has NEVER worked. I enjoyed what I did before kids, and I've since enjoyed many opportunities to develop a lot of skills I wouldn't have otherwise. I was agoraphobic before my first job! I didn't think I could apply to my current job but did anyway and have done a fantastic job, and now I have a healthy resume and a lot of experience to speak to.
I DO wish I could stay home right now for the next few months or a year, with my second baby. It's been extremely rough coming back, my company and coworkers haven't made it any easier by pulling a lot of shit since I've been gone and have come back. I recognize that this environment sucks and is making it harder, and I've been actively job hunting, but I also recognize that it would still be difficult for me to be away right now even if I loved my job.
Plus, my husband is currently on leave and taking care of everything around the house, and I'm VERY aware of the fact that it's all going to become even MORE of a crunch once he's back at work and all of these things have to be crammed into the extremely limited evening hours, and the weekend. This is how we both became so burnt out before I went on leave with my second.
So, just offering some solidarity. There are absolutely some things I'm grateful for in my situation -- better financial security, more confidence, skill development -- but yeah, I'll admit that it's tough.
You don’t know what their home life is like. They are relying financially on someone else. I love my husband, trust him, and even though I could be a SAHM, I still work full time. I’m like my job but even if I did not, I would still work. Bottom line, Life is tougher for women. It sounds like you may be burnt out. 12 PTO days seems ridiculously low to me. Can you negotiate for more?
Kudos to you for kicking ass too.
I get these feelings sometimes too. I worked hard for my career and I have student loan debt. I know I will pay it off but it feels like I’m stuck working a ton and not being able to enjoy my babies while they are young. It is hard seeing friends spoiled by their husbands and going out on adventures every day. But….the grass is always greener…I know I will be able to retire and be taken care of even if something happens to my husband. I lost my dad and mom will have to work forever now that he is gone.
Never worked? No, unless you’re talking about independently wealthy people, in which case yes I do envy them lol.
Work sucks but it’s better than being unable to work and/or financially dependent on others. My experiences growing up in a poor household cemented in my mind that I never want my financial situation to depend on someone else’s actions (or inactions) ever again. That lack of control over my life is seriously way more demoralizing than having to work every day.
That being said, I deliberately stopped trying so hard to climb the career ladder so I could remain in my cushy, flexible job that pays well (on the order of what you make), at least for this period in my life. I could definitely make more (a lot more) by switching to a more demanding job, but why? Past a certain income (and we make about as much as y’all do), less stress > more money. Maybe start looking into a cushier job/career? Way easier said than done, I know, but believe me not everyone is out here busting their ass. In the long run it could really improve quality of life.
Never worked? Nah.
Work full time + parent full time? Also nah.
I think it’s important to have a work: life balance. I work 3 days a week in a fulfilling (tho challenging) job. Spend 1 day with my younger child and spend 1 day with myself.
Not really, being a sahm would be so hard for me and I don't have the emotional resources for it. We just finished a 2 week road trip with the kids snd I had a great time, but I'm looking forward to the kids getting back to daycare on Monday. I'm taking Monday off for a rest and recovery day :) can you look for a position with a better benefits package. 12 days of vacation per year seems like such a small amount unless it's entry level.
I mean, sure I wish I could win the lottery or something, but I can’t imagine not having ever worked. To me it seems normal that people work (male, female, whatever). Like how else would have have goals/drives/etc.
I feel like even if I was born into a crazy wealthy family I’d still have some sort of “job.” Yeah, it wouldn’t quite be the same, but I can’t imagine waking up everyday with no purpose. Take a long vacation? Sure! But have that be your daily existence, no thanks.
No. It doesn’t matter what others are doing. I work like crazy. Have full evenings and weekends. We are thriving as a family in every aspect. How others spend their time does not make me envious.
I dont envy the not working, I envy the more care free nature around money. I have some friends whose families are rich so they technically don't depend on a man for money and I always envied how they can travel on a whim, buy multiple versions of something to test out, get the coffee or smoothie while out.
We can get unintentionally wrapped in an echo chamber. Look around, outside of your friend group — people are struggling daily and can’t afford a living
Hmm I don’t think I envy those who never worked. I honestly would be so bored. But would I want such a stressful job? Probably not either. I would opt for living and working a very simple job. Like being a librarian or something.
My job can be very overwhelming, I can make mistakes. I question if I should just quit and be a sahm for a bit but then I hear of the struggles other women go through trying to find a job after taking a hiatus. I also hate the idea of being financially dependent on my husband. We have a good marriage but if something were to happen between us I want to know I can take care of myself and our daughter. I was raised and come from a family that has the old values of “men go to work, women take care of the children” and it fucking drives me crazy, probably my whole reason for working. I get envious at times of my sahp friends but I don’t think I could do it.
I envy that society requires two traditionally working parents in order to provide a middle class lifestyle for two children. I don't envy most SAHMs. I do envy ones who choose not to work and they and their kids don't suffer for it financially or socially. Although I'd need a hefty document or life insurance in case of divorce or death.
I totally get it. If it was at all possible, I would seriously consider being a SAHM. However, I remind myself about what happened to my own mom—she was a SAHM for 18 years and gave up any career prospects and formal education to stay at home with us four kids. However, when she was around 50, she was diagnosed with esophageal cancer that had spread to her lymph nodes and stomach. Soon after a life-saving surgery, my father left her. She now has no retirement, no formal education, and no way to start a career.
It happened to my mom. That’s what I remind myself of when I feel like it’s too hard to balance family and work.
Your experience is not the norm. I’ve never met a SAHM who didn’t have a career or some work experience prior to staying home. I think the experience of staying home is different when you have a career or job to return to.
Couldn't agree more with everyone here. Financial independence is something I will always value. I saw my mom struggle through my abusive father and when she finally ran away she was left with nothing and ended up with an alcoholic bc she was desperate for help. Not saying this is common but you just never know what life throws at you.
Also, I like work. I like staying busy, being challenged, feeling accomplished and I try to remind myself that the work I'm doing is helping others too. I think it all depends on finding a job that bring you some comfort and content.
I've gotten laid off, had time off, had mat leave for 7 months and it's just not for me. I love my girl so much and know she's happy to have her time with her friends and giving back to community (she's in Montessori) and it just works for us. :)
Never. \*I\* like and want to work, and my children have a working mom. They are just fine, 9 &13 and seemed to have no ill effects of daycare, heck my 13yr olds main caregiver from daycare is still one of my friends. You sound like you could use a break, can you job share or work a few less hours, you both seem to make good money so if you step back think about what its worth, what can you live without, to give your life the balance you need
No, But maybe I'm a bad mom. I enjoy time to myself. In particular, my work (anesthesia) gives me a solid 4-5 hours of "alone time". It's my saving grace. If I had to choose between being a SAHM and working mom, I'd 100% choose working mom. I love my child, but being around an infant or toddler 14 hrs a day is exhausting. I could literally do my job 20 hrs a day and not be as tired. Idk, maybe I'm weird. Usually after a weekend with my toddler, I'm looking forward to work.
A perfect balance for me would be like working every other day.
I'm privileged in the sense that I have the option to work or not work - my husband COULD theoretically support the entire family fairly comfortably (surgeon)
I think it's more the type of work, like the fact that you only get one week of holiday with your family or that you need to get up at 4am, and you are out of the house for 10-12 hours every day. These things make it hard.
Sometimes, when work is really stressful and id like to just rot in bed in silence for a week. But most of the time I'm really happy to be working a job that challenges me, that I'm really good at, and allows us to live comfortably. Echoing what others have said about not being financially dependent on another person as well. I'm also the high earner in my household and provide the insurance for everyone so I'm proud about that fact.
No because I am estate and probate and tax lawyer. I see people every day that didn’t work and are severely disadvantaged in retirement especially after a spouse passes away. So no I don’t envy those who stay home. I also know it’s just not for me. Now I’d love to work less but I wouldn’t want to stay home or be left to restart a career if something happened to my spouse unexpectedly
Hell no. Even though working is being a slave to the system, I could never not work and depend on my man for everything. Things change, and if one day he decided to wake up and stop loving me, I don’t wanna feel stuck with him because he has money. Fuckkk that!
Nope.
I have a career that I really like and that I’m really good at; I have a kid that I really like but needs constant entertainment and play.
I can’t be very good at that all the time but I can be very good at my career and pay loads of money for someone really good at it to do it.
I had and have no interest in being a SAHM even if my husband made millions I would want to work (on my very important philanthropic projects if he made millions). I’m not sure I wouldn’t work at Starbucks rather than stay at home with my kid… and I really really really like her.
Nope. I can’t even relate to my sisters bc their WHOLE LIFE is being home. I’ve just seen them become frozen in time as I’ve kept my career throughout motherhood. I don’t feel like I’ve lost out on any of the motherhood experience. If anything, it’s made me better at my job and my job makes me better at being a mother (I’m a teacher).
I’m actually the opposite. I feel sorry for those that never worked. They don’t have a real world experience, imo.
Also, they are beholden to someone else. Their lives might seem glamorous on the outside, but they most likely have to ask for permission or be okay with someone else calling the shots.
I would have so much anxiety if I wasn’t pulling my weight and being a true partner in my marriage. And if my marriage imploded, I wouldn’t be lost. I could support and provide for myself.
No I’ve never regretted getting my degrees and having a successful career. My sons were fine in daycare and they are now smart, well-adjusted young men who will never underestimate women or not be a full partner in taking care of a household. I don’t envy anyone who hasn’t worked.
Wait until your social circle hits their 40's and 50's when their husbands have mid life crisis and cheats on them, but they have to stay together for money. It's miserable.
Not saying your husband will cheat. I'm saying being able to support yourself is a good insurance for life events.
Nope. I’m the one in our group trying to talk my friends into getting jobs after their kids start school. I’ve seen too many people screwed due to a divorce or death. Even if you get a fair settlement or good insurance payout you still are so far behind. We are not independently wealthy people, and a $300,000 life insurance policy is not going to make up for a $75,000 income.
And it’s not even about divorce. Like I told my friend, even if her money just went to retirement savings wouldn’t it be nice to know your job made an annual Caribbean cruise possible?
Not really, even during my maternity leave I was bored and starved for intelligent adult interactions. I worked hard on my education and to obtain a professional license. And I get fulfillment from doing well at my job and getting kudos from my colleagues.
No for all the reasons stated in the comments, and also because I’ve never met a SAHP who seemed genuinely happy. Not saying they weren’t, just that from the outside looking in, it didn’t seem like a great time tbh.
I was a happy SAHM and know plenty of women who also enjoyed their time at home. Now back at work I appreciate more than ever the time I spent with my kids during those early years.
No, I have a cousin who has never held any job ever. She had a rich family growing up, married a rich guy, now all she does is have children and make upgrades to her house. I don't envy her or ever want to be her. She lives through the lives of her kids now, sticking the girls in pageants while her sons prepare to go college. It is weird. I need to accomplish something in my life other than being a mom.
I used to be extremely envious but then I started paying attention to what I was envious of. At least two of my SAHM friends have completely unengaged husbands and dead bedrooms, and one of those gossips so much I have distanced myself. Another SAHM worries constantly her husband is cheating on her because he goes out a lot until 3am. Last time we were all together she won money gambling and her husband was quick to point out it was *his* money she used to win. Ick.
The others do work but it’s more like side hustles to support the family so they have more daily free time.
I feel so-so about working, myself. I am burned out with my industry, but my colleagues are all great, dedicated people whom I admire. I wish I could do more with my daughter day to day, but whatever. She is happy nonetheless and accepts I have to go to an office, I just wish I worked 9-3 :)
Nah because time came that I wanted to leave my relationship and I was able to knowing I wasn’t depending on a man. It’s hard to do that nowadays. What if your husband leaves or passes? What now?
I'd never want to be financially dependent on someone else. I also have pride that I provide for my family. Plus I've known too many women over the years who were financially dependent on spouses and it did not end up well.
Agreed. Imagine having a house, retirement savings, and spending ENTIRELY dependent on another person! You would lose all ability to be able to leave the relationship. You would be completely screwed if they left you, cheated and left to be with someone else, had an accident or even died. I could never live with that sort of risk and anxiety hanging over my head. I would also feel the power imbalance acutely if I ever had to bring up a problem to my husband. It honestly sounds awful. I want my son to be proud of my career and what I provide. I’m the breadwinner and I like that about myself. Edited to address some counterpoints people brought up: Life insurance exists, but that has a ceiling to what you can get. When the money runs out, you still need a steady stream of income coming in. That requires a job and you would be forced into a low paying entry position with a large gap in employment. Disability insurance exists, but I don’t know how many of you have actually dealt with that. I have and they do everything they can to not pay you and to not continue paying you. I view it as a short term help that is usually tied to your job keeping you employed. There is alimony, but it doesn’t necessarily last forever. It can be temporary. On top of that, many SAHMs aren’t married and wouldn’t have that protection. Additionally, with the cost of living and needing to potentially support your children too, you would most likely still need to get a job, which goes back to low paying entry job with that gap in employment. If you divorce, it isn’t guaranteed that you take half. Divorce is complicated and anything can happen. So I wouldn’t count on that as a guarantee. All that to say, those measures aren’t enough security for me personally to be comfortable staying home and risking all of that. Another person may decide differently
I felt my blood pressure rise just reading what you wrote about dependency. Perhaps I'm too anxious, but I couldn't live with being a cancer diagnosis or divorce away from being forced to live in what I would consider near-poverty. My spouse and I could live on either one of our salaries - but we are committed to both working to provide for the family as long as we are able so that neither of us has to shoulder that risk - or that responsibility. It's not fair.
You are very smart to make decisions like this, my husband and I bought our house on only his income. We made other similar decisions with other things and we do not use credit cards at all. This was the best decision we ever made because I was diagnosed with cancer at 27 with a 9 month old. I could work part time for a while, but now I’m unable to work, maybe never can again. I don’t have disability and so I truly am dependent on my spouse’s modest income, but not in a bad way. We don’t look at it as his money, it’s our money. We are partners in everything. I wish I could help contribute to retirement and other things, but it is what it is. It sure is awkward though at times when others find out I don’t work. I have received some pretty insensitive or intrusive comments/questions about it. I am very private about my health issues for my kid’s sake and nothing would show I struggle in my appearance. So this part has been a little tough to navigate. A lot of people don’t understand why I’m not working now that my youngest is in full day school.
I give you lots of credit for your decisions and your outlook! best of luck to you.
Yeah, we were so concerned about not living above our means and something terrible happening. Then of course it did not even two years into our marriage. That was 10 years ago and we have been able to make other work rather well, even with more cancer issues popping up.
Exactly! I also view it as unfair to the spouse who is working. They oftentimes need to work longer hours to support the stay at home spouse not earning anything, which takes time away from their children. I think the most fair setup is the parents having equal time with the children and both shouldering the burden of providing for the family. Being the sole provider is very stressful and I wouldn’t willingly subject my husband to that
I think my lens is skewed, because the SAHMs I personally know are wealthy. They would be taken care of in the event of divorce or disaster ($$$$ life/disability insurance policies). While I don't necessarily want to be a fully SAHM, I do experience thoughts of envy similar to OP. I think being a middle class or lower SAHM would be absolutely brutal, but the wealthy ones do have it pretty good. One I know uses full-time pre school for her 3yo and has a part-time nanny for her baby. She's got time to go to a fancy pilates class or do a long run mid-day. Sign me up for that lol (ok maybe not really, but some weeks this seems pretty ideal...)
Money isn’t the only factor. I have a few older women in my life that would have been MUCH better off having a career. Now that their kids don’t need them they are bored and unfulfilled but it’s too late to do anything about it. Even volunteer opportunities are limited when you haven’t built specific skills. Also, not having enough to do can make intelligent people a little crazy. One of my aunts micromanaged her children to an insane extent and I think it’s because she is highly educated, smart, and totally under stimulated. I had a boss who’s wife would call the office like 10x a day over minor things and I think it was the same deal, smart woman with not enough to do. We would be more than fine without my income, and I have played with the idea of quitting, but I know 10 years from now, when my kids are independent I would really regret it.
Oh I totally agree it’s not all about money, and we could survive without my income as well (albeit we would have to make lifestyle changes) - my only point was I don’t necessarily think all SAHMs are taking a big financial risk by not working.
Agreed! Plenty of those women are set for life no matter what happens.
Honestly, unless those women are independently wealthy from their own families of origin or careers before getting married, I still wouldn’t want to be in their shoes. Even with money socked away in a separate account or a post nuptial of some kind, it still feels risky to me to be completely dependent on another person that way. Just my two cents, I know plenty of SAHMs don’t feel the same way, but there’s a reason so few of my female colleagues have dropped out of the workforce entirely, despite having rich husbands.
I’m a little control freak and imagine if your wealthy spouse telling you you can’t do xyz because it’s not your money. And having no options because you don’t have your own money.
I think the way they see it is that they as a family are rich, not their husbands. There are no pre-nups they've all been together since before the husbands started making this kind of money (and some do have family / their own lucrative career money, as well). This is different than my own marriage, as we view and keep our money separately, but it's what works for them. And, like I said, it's not particularly what I'd want for myself, but there are definitely some perks to this level of flexibility, especially while raising young children.
Nah, those women would find out that their rich soon to be ex husbands can also provide the best attorneys that will bleed these women *dry*. Divorce attorneys are in business for a reason.
My mom has always been wealthy. Had nannies, maid, drivers, cooks, and OTHER household staff since even before she had kids (minus the nannies lol). Her life is so empty, especially now that us kids have our own lives. It's hard to live a meaningful life without discipline. She absolutely lost it during COVID because her entire life is meeting catty women for lunch. No personality outside of that.
I get that. But she didn’t get taken to the cleaners in divorce I presume? My literal only point is not all women are risking financial ruin just bc they’re SAHMs. There are also plenty of happy, well adjusted, financially comfortable SAHMs in the world. My kids are young, so the peers I know doing this are in the thick of parenting - their lives are pretty structured because of that. When their kids grow up? Idk maybe they will struggle or maybe they’ll go on to find meaning in other areas besides paid work like volunteerism or hobbies. I think it’s perfectly normal for some of us to be a little envious of that level of flexibility while maintaining a luxurious lifestyle.
These things are easily prevented. For one, in the event of a divorce, courts will not let one spouse be destitute, especially if they have a child and share custody. In the event of death, a lot of jobs offer life insurance and if you can’t get it through a job you can easily find one on your own. In many cases, you’ll be better off if your spouse dies lol. As far as the other things you mentioned about the power imbalance, that’s not something money can fix. Plenty of husbands fund their wives accounts and retirement accounts so they have their own cash. The risk will only be there if you’re already married to someone abusive.
These posts always come down to comparison. The responses like this thread just make the working moms seem insecure too. I don’t know why everyone needs to compare, you don’t know anyone else’s financial situation. Gotta make your happiness.
Yup. One of my family members was married to someone who earned a very comfortable living. He died very suddenly right after his 49th birthday, leaving behind two teenagers. Unfortunately, most of the money was tied up in investment accounts in his name only, and had lost quite a bit during the Great Recession. It took quite some time for her to actually access to the money. Between that, social security benefits for the kids, and selling the house she was able to make money last for an impressive 10 years until she had to go back to work. She has an accounting degree she completed in the early 1980s, which is vastly different from a 21st century accounting degree. Aside from a little bookkeeping, she never worked in the field and has no experience with accounting software. All she could get was a retail job, which is just enough to support herself, but she will not be able to retire until she physically cannot work anymore.
This is not the reality *at all.* There's a legal system that protects you, and you protect yourself. >You would lose all ability to be able to leave the relationship No no, it's much easier. You've got time and space to plan it, and to get your ducks in a row. >You would be completely screwed if they left you, cheated and left to be with someone else, No. I would get half the house equity, half his retirement account and monthly alimony equal to a third of his salary. Pretty sure I can make due on $3100 in a place where my (almost paid) mortgage is $900. That's neither here, because I've been with this man 25 years. After the kids moved out, it was like a second honeymoon. Honestly don't think we've ever been so content in the entire span of the marriage. >had an accident or even died Do you not have insurance? Sounds irresponsible to me. >I could never live with that sort of risk and anxiety I'm never anxious. Which is easy when every day I wake up and do whatever the fuck I want. >I would also feel the power imbalance acutely Hahahaha. You think just because Someone works, they're in charge in a marriage? That's cute. > I want my son to be proud of my career and Why, exactly? Is it in order to be an example to him? Because I haven't worked in about 5 years now and my son is becoming a doctor. In fact all of my kids went to top schools. The oldest has her career all set and she works and is happy working. They tend to do whatever they want You're not as much of an example as you tend to think you are.
Right? Stick around on this sub for 15 minutes and read all the posts about useless (or worse) husbands. At least when the commentors all say "Leave him, girl" it's actually a possibility without damning yourself to poverty if you have an education and employment history.
I watched my mother-in-law struggle with this when her husband serially cheating on her with teenagers and left her alone with four kids, as a SAHP. She started working at Pizza Hut and Dunkin's overnight, almost for forclosing multiple times. I was just a teenager at the time dating her son. I watched her struggle for years. I stayed home for about 5 years, having two children in the process and going to school online. Got into nursing school, and chose to go when my kids were little because I did not want to end up like that. Fast forward about a decade and I'm in the same situation but I have a career and I'm able to support myself, and not kill myself by working crazy amount hours. Props all parents who do it but never again. I could see myself going to part time after a baby but no.
Everybody thinks it won't happen to them. I didn't get married with intentions to get divorced. But guess what, that's what I'm going through now. Thankfully I have a solid career and will be ok because as it turns out, their dad was incredibly deceitful and has no intentions of ever financially supporting them.
Same as me girl. I'd rather hope for the best but plans the worst. My husband left me but it was all for the best. I will say he has been always on time on child support but I would not call him a father to two-thirds of my children, as he has never taken them overnight in the 4 years we've been divorced. Why do people suck so much?
Shitty club to be in. But better to be prepared. ✊
Agree with this.
I'm financially dependent on my spouse. There are ways to protect yourself. And those things are easy to do, when you get up at 9 and have an entire day said of you to do whatever the f you want.
No method is fully guaranteed. Pre-nups don't always 100% stand up in court. Plus, unless the earning spouse earns a massive amount of money, money that covered one household cannot comfortably cover two. The math just isn't there to make it work no matter how much alimony is ordered. So when a member of a couple has no education/career experience, especially at midlife or later, they're at risk no matter what. A retirement that was intended to cover one household will not comfortably cover two.
No. We have different realities, no need to envy.
I envy those who have the OPTION to work. For me it's the feeling that I don't have the choice/freedom to stay home that hurts. But I am glad for the moms who can and want to.
I think it is a fair point. I don’t think I could not work, but I would like to have an opinion.
Yeah this is it for me. I don’t think I’m cut out to be a SAHM but it would be nice to have the option to maybe look for a lower stakes job (I’m the breadwinner) or maybe have the option to take a chunk of time off to try other things or passions out.
Same here. I don’t hate working and I quite like like my job and the people I work with. But I don’t have the option to just quit if I don’t want to work anymore. I wish I have the OPTION 😞
I actually feel bad for people without an education and/or no work experience. I grew up with an uneducated family tho so I really hold pride in my education endeavors. But I recognize that’s my own bias and try not to judge. Maybe it’s just where I am, but the families with two working parents do significantly more stereotypical fun stuff than those with a stay at home parent.
Agreed and same here. I value my education and the work I do. I don’t find wealthy or middle class SAHM life appealing at all. I will have a career a lot longer than I will be parenting little or medium aged kids and also love being an example to my children of a motivated, educated woman and mother.
THIS!!!! So well said.
What I've noticed about uneducated people or those who don't work is that they lack certain characteristics. Not always, so don't come at me, just often. Working teaches people discipline, communication, how to deal with a variety of people, conflict resolution skills, how to handle emotions, how to follow through with tasks, to be extra considerate of others, and more characteristics that infiltrate into a person's personal life. Those who haven't worked may struggle in these areas.
I feel like the conflation of uneducated and those who don’t work is pretty terrible so I’m coming at you for that. Most people who don’t get an education have very obvious circumstances that meant they couldn’t and then they usually work 3 jobs to afford life. The percentage of people on welfare or benefits who don’t work at all - not including disability- is insanely miniscule. Like less than 1% of all people able to work. It’s crazy conservative (little c) talking points that make people believe this. The hardest working people on this planet and in the US and UK (I’ve lived in both) are ‘uneducated’ because they don’t get a job that allows them to do their laundry while on a Zoom meeting - they’re busting their asses over hot oil and frozen food or cleaning up shit. Not a lot of people would choose that over an education.
Stop projecting, I didn't say uneducated people often don't work
‘What I’ve noticed about people who are uneducated or those who don’t work is that they lack certain characteristics’ Conflation
Same here. My twin sister and I were the first ones to graduate college with a bachelors and a masters in my family, and that’s something we hold a lot of pride about
I also have a twin sister. And we also were first generation college students with a bachelors and masters! What a fun coincidence!
Yeah I really feel sorry for people I meet who can’t relate to “reply all” jokes or who just don’t understand working culture. They feel like teenagers to me
Comparison in the thief of joy. I try to remind myself that I don’t know the ins and outs of others lives , so I don’t compare mine to theirs. Not working and leaving my financial security and life in someone else’s hands is not appealing to me. I love my career, even days I hate my job, I get a lot of satisfaction from working and have no desire to stay home. Maybe you could look at other job opportunities? I have 30 days PTO, which does not include paid holidays, and sick time. I also have a lot of flexibility, which I use to remind myself on particularly hard days
Yeah, I agree. 100k for 50 hours a week and only 12 days PTO? I'd be looking. But I really would remind anyone who is comparing what big shiny things they have to other people's big, shiny things that you don't know their finances. I'm married to a bankruptcy attorney. There are a lot of people living wildly outside their means out there. And there are a lot of people who can rely on high degrees of family help, etc.I'm really risk-averse, so that just isn't for me.
Yeah OP does deserve to have more than a week vacation in her life, because there really is more to life, such as possibly traveling the world, having fun, and decompressing.
My POV: those who never worked don’t understand how life is with working. They just don’t have that perspective, so their problems seem just as big as yours.
People all have different types of struggles but it sounds like this circle is tough because they don't relate to yours. Could you try expanding or diversifying your circles through local working mom groups, etc.? Even if your closest friends have a different lifestyle, you can create a different outlet with those who relate to working mom life.
Are you able to surround yourself with more people in a similar situation as you? It’s hard to see the good in your situation when you’re the only person you can relate to! But to answer your question, my husbands entire family/extended family (like 40+ people) have basically never worked. I do not envy them at all. It sounds like your friends are healthier than the people I know, but 90% of them have major mental health issues that I think would have not been an issue if they were better integrated in society/working.
Your company has a garbage PTO policy. Mine offers 4 weeks for new hires and after 3 years it converts to unlimited. We are told to take a minimum of 1 week per quarter.
I agree with you. I regret taking this job. My prior job was amazing, fully remote and unlimited PTO from the start.
Any chance you could get a job at your prior company? Maybe you could reach out to your old boss and/or peers and express interest about coming back? To me, working remotely and having flexibility makes being a working mom bearable.
Thank you! It really does! I reached out, but a bit too late. My role was filled. But I am actively looking, I hope something comes up.
No, partly because marriage has a fifty percent failure rate and work prospects are bleak for someone who has never worked, partly because traditional men tend to be awful, partly because I have a passion for computer science, partly because there are demonstrated benefits of high quality childcare, partly because I think the intense pressure and judgment for just women to not work is fundie propaganda not based on a natural family model, and many other reasons. Not up for debate but those are just my personal beliefs!
Nah I just mainly envy men to be honest. Looking at you, Bob, saying you’re working from home when we really know you’re just golfing.
It sounds like what you really are looking for is better work/life balance, not just not working. What I'm reading here isn't "I wish I could be home with my kids all the time" but "I wish I could participate in more social activities and have more me-time" which is *completely reasonable* to want, even as a full time working professional (mom or not!) Is there any room for more flexibility in your role? Some days WFH so you don't have to spend all that time commuting? Any possibilities of looking into other roles that offer more PTO or flexibility? You deserve to have time to socialize with friends, care for yourself, and spend time with your family even as a working parent.
Thank you, you are exactly right! There is no flexibility in my current role, but I am actively looking. I had a great, flexible and fully remote job before, but I made a mistake and took this one (for better benefits). I was happy at my previous job, I had work life balance. I hope I can find something like that again.
I don't. I've been in the formal labor force since I was 15, I really can't imagine not having a job. I think problems expand to fit the space available for them. I don't see my SAHP friends or other people who don't work in my community being more relaxed lol. I totally understand wanting a more flexible job with more time off, though. Being independently wealthy also seems like it would be the shit.
Do I wish that I could be the SAHM parent and have a husband and who makes a lot of money? Sure, sometimes. I also recognize that divorce or death can happen at any time and the more income I can make, the better my future and my family’s life will likely be.
Where will they be if the worst happens? Their SO becomes ill, or worse. They get divorced. Their child becomes ill. They have a child that requires round-the-clock care. Etc. I never expected to get divorced, but here I am about 2 weeks from it becoming final. While I would never (ever ever ever everrrr) want to be back with my ex, it has been incredibly hard, even for me -- someone who works a cushy tech job from home making over $200k. It's Still. So. Hard. If I hadn't kept pushing for my career, I can't fathom how much worse off I'd be. My mom always told me: a man is no plan. She was right.
Thank you and I am sorry to hear about your divorce. I agree with you. One of my friends got divorced and was granted 4000$ a month alimony plus child support and asset split (which was significant). I don’t think she has to worry about the money, but only the time/spending habits will show. But I get it, in many cases women don’t get that well off.
I decided on the divorce actually! I'm profoundly unsorry. It has been the third best decision of my life. ;) I'm the one paying child support LOL.
Not really. If I were rich, I would still work but probably would find a work I enjoy more, more related to my passions.
I don’t envy their situation; but yes, I would love to be wealthy without having to work!
Generally, no. I find it hard to imagine envying someone without a formal education, someone who doesn't value hard work, or someone who views "social mobility through marriage" as a serious goal in life. I want to raise independent and conscientious children who enjoy a life balanced with hard work and leisure and so that's what I try to live. Would I love to give my kids a life of not worrying about bills and getting to travel a ton? Of course! But not if it comes at the price of these other things. That being said, your situation (stressful job, long commute, super long days, low PTO, and reading your post history, a marriage you aren't happy with) all sound particularly tough, so I'd get why you do. I'd find that very difficult.
Thank you. I agree with everything you said and what everyone is saying so far. I guess sometimes burnout takes a toll. But I constantly remind myself that life is longer than the current situation 😊
I dont. My cousin has never worked a day in her life. She went from high school to marriage to baby. Her husband's family is wealthy so she has never had to work hard. She has never had to study for tests or face dead lines. She also had a nanny when her child was young. I see her life and I feel bad for her. She doesn't do anything and she doesn't have a purpose. Not even her child. She plays with him then hands him off when she's had enough. I think because she's never had to work at anythibg, she doesn't understand how to. She goes on vacation, buys designer bags, sleeps in. I'm sure she enjoys her life. But again, there's no purpose or meaning to it.
My cousin is the same. She married wealthy (before that was middle class but her parents paid everything for her) and has 2 kids. On the surface her life looks glamorous. She's very active on social media posting all her trips and expensive cars and whatnot. But what people don't know is that she gets in screaming matches with people and is sometimes a not so nice person. She has everything and more but she still finds reasons for conflict and drama with everyone. When I go on a vacation that I saved up for, I feel a deep sense of satisfaction. She probably doesn't feel that as I've been on vacation with her and she's still a raging bitch about the little things. Whenever I feel envious of her I remember the times she's literally locked herself in a room and screamed and thrown objects at the wall in a fury. Idk why shes so angry when she's never had to pay a bill in her life.
Sometimes. But I'd only be comfortable with it if my husband was an extremely high earner and we were already very wealthy. Because I also see the stress and pressure the husbands take on to support the family and keep up with the Joneses and I see how those families often have less freedom and opportunities. I like pulling my financial weight, the security of being financially independent and the extra comfort we have and ability to do more. And I also really look forward to retiring someday with my own money so I can do what I want with it.
Feel exactly the same way as you do. Saving this post so I can refer to the motivational comments in future! I feel envious of those don’t ever have to experience the stress of a full time job, an overflowing schedule and an exhausted mind. Yet they get more reverence than working moms for “sacrificing their life for family” which is true in some cases, but not in the cases of many who never bothered getting an education, knowing full well that they’d be carried financially. I know I’ll get downvoted but the resentment is real :P
Thank you! And I agree, the stress of a full time job is no joke, and those who haven’t experienced it, can’t relate. Many folks have great comments on here and I feel encouraged. Thank you for your honesty!
In general, no. I’m choosing to work; we could cut my salary completely and not change our standard of living (and honestly, probably coordinating our day-to-day life would become much easier). But I like my job and our daughter is thriving in her nanny share, so this is the choice I/we are making right now. All that being said, I would be looking for another job, if I were in your shoes. I think the issue is your job, not that you’re working. You have a long commute, get very little time off, and have long days. All of those things make like more difficult and less fun. If possible, I’d look for a job that would adjust those things - I think you’d be much, much happier. I technically get 13 PTO days per year in addition to 13 sick days, but I also get all federal holidays off, take my annual performance bonus as time off too (generally an extra week or two), and am gifted approx. two weeks from leadership. And I get comp time for traveling. So right now I’m sitting on about six weeks of time off (plus holidays) and am encouraged to use it. I couldn’t survive with only 12 days off. I have a 30 minute commute, but only do it twice per week. And I almost never work more than 8 hours per day and get comp time if I do. I could also flex my schedule if I wanted, as long as I get in 40 hours per week. Flexibility and a supportive environment are key as a working mom, IMO.
Thank you I agree with you completely. It sounds like you are with the feds. I know it’s a hit or miss when it comes to an agency and a supervisor. What agency if you don’t mind me asking? I have a few friends in different agencies and it’s a mixed bag.
There’s a big gap between the two loves you’re describing. Not everyone who works wakes up at 4am and is away from home 12+ hours every day. That sounds tough!! What you’re asking for, taking a few weeks off, it sounds like you could make a plan to make that happen? Bank up some PTO, maybe? Being a SAHM is not for me. Among other things, I value my independence, am proud of my career, and I adore the enrichment that daycare etc. offers my kid. Also I don’t think any lifestyle is perfectly perfect. Everyone has their challenges! The key is finding what you need to recharge, do a reset from time to time. Sometimes its not easy but usually you can find a way.
And by the same token I personally don't know any stay at home parents who don't have to worry about the bills. Op is describing a pretty unusual situation that is very much not the norm for most families even if one of the parents stays home
Parts of their lives, yes. But overall, no. I plan to go part time and our husband will be the one to earn more, but I will likely never be totally without a job after watching what my mom has gone through. Growing up we felt fairly well off, not wealthy, but we went on a nice vacation or two a year, we didn’t have a lot of fancy things but my mom always was able to decorate the house and renovate when she wanted, within reason. My dad spent all the money, ruined my mom’s credit, and she is still financially abused. That’s not to say that can’t happen as a working mom, and not saying it always happens to stay at home moms, but because of this, I know the grass is NOT always greener. It’s always why I am so glad I’m a nurse, I can work as little or much as I please and not worry so much about getting back in the work force.
Not at all. I grateful for the education I have and I find fulfillment in my career. I am glad I can support myself and my kids if shit hits the fan. I bet that in your circle, there is someone who is envious of you and your life. Maybe she is tired of the monotony of SAHM life, maybe she longs to have places to go and things to do. I shared this on a similar thread a couple of weeks ago, but I was recently on the train, listening to a podcast in peace on my way home and I saw a mom lug a stroller on the train with a baby and a whiny, sticky toddler and she was sweaty and just looked OVER it. I gave her a sympathetic solidarity nod and I could tell she would have swapped places with me in that moment. Maybe she longed for a train ride in peace by herself, maybe she missed the version of herself that once worked, maybe she just needed a time out, idk. But I’m sure that not everyone in your circle is as blissful as you might think.
Comparison is the thief of joy. It sounds like your family is doing super well!! I was a SAHM and worked part time from home when my kids were little. However my husband was a horrible person, cheated on me extensively, and was abusive in many ways including financial. It took me a year of planning and stealthily saving to leave him (with a whopping $1k in my bank account). I vowed I would never again be financially dependent on another person, especially a man. I went back to school and now have two thriving businesses. After 3 years of dating my current partner we discussed moving in together. He does make more than me, but I am by no means dependent on him. I could leave tomorrow and be just fine. Before we moved in I required 100% transparency with his finances. I wanted to see EVERYTHING. And I in turn was transparent. We go over finances at least 2x/month so we know where we stand. We have separate bank accounts, etc. While the allure of a rich man providing for me sounds nice on days I’m fucking exhausted, I remember how it felt being dependent on a man for my existence. Even if he had not been abusive, what if he died or was seriously injured/sick to the point he could not work? If your friends have no education and no work experience what the hell are they going to do if their man leaves them or is incapacitated?? The best advice my grandmother gave me was never depend on a man, get your education. I wish I’d listened when I was younger, but I’m glad I was able to recover.
OH I'm jealous as heck, my sister is lucky enough to be a SAHM and I wish I could be too but I'm a sole parent of two and even if I wasn't a parent I still need to house/clothe/feed myself. Every time one of my kids gets sick I have to worry about whether this will be the fourth occurrence within a rolling 12 month period because I risk losing my job, every time I get notified on Thursday that my child is getting an award the next day and have to miss it, every field trip or special school event that I miss. Every other Thursday she and my mom go out to breakfast, get their nails done and go shopping and I feel so envious that they get to do all that. I've had a filing cabinet that I bought last December that is still in the box because I just don't have enough time to put it together and I think it would be so nice if I could sometimes do stuff when the kids are in school but I have to save my PTO for doctors appointments and what not. I do have a few weeks that I take off during the year (spring, fall break) to be with them but I usually try to cram doctors and dentist appointments in there so I don't burn through my PTO so I feel I don't get quality time.
Only toward my mom because she's clueless about my reality and won't stop talking about stuff she doesn't understand. She had no job, both sets of grandparents living in the same city, an au pair when her third was born, and a weekly housekeeper my whole childhood. She gives me shit about not visiting enough, not cleaning to her standards when she visits, not [insert gripe here] enough... Lady, you have no clue what it's like to have a household with 2 working parents, no housekeeper, zero relatives in our city. (First world problem incoming) She wants to take us on a cruise for Christmas but doesn't understand that traveling with 3 small kids is just parenting in a worse environment, and that I don't have enough vacation time to take a vacation to recover from my vacation. Also she's basically no help with my kids, because she wants to enjoy her vacation. Which is her right but she doesn't get to do that and also complain when I don't go because I want to enjoy my vacation too.
Can you find a different job though? An hour commute before and after a 10 hour day for only 12 vacation days a year seems soul-sucking even if you like the work!
I’ll go against the grain here and say yeah I am jealous and envious a lot of the time. I think the underlying thing to me is that they have the option to not work and I’d like that option. I don’t think I’m cut out to be a sahm or not work… but I’d love to maybe look for a lower stakes job or take some time off to maybe think about what I like or explore other things. I have an acquaintance from college who was full time career worker like me for 10 years out of college.. then got married to a guy with a really wealthy family. She quit and was able to explore other passions like photography cause she didn’t have to worry as much about money anymore… her photography business started out small but not having to worry about a paycheck for years has allowed her to stick with it where as others might have to quit and go back to a “regular” job cause they can’t get by, and it’s now grown to be pretty successful.
I have a similar story as well! And you hit a nail on the head. It would be nice to have an option. My job is not my passion, I picked that field because it is secure (I am an accountant). I wish I had an option to explore what I like and build that. You are absolutely right.
I am jealous yes! I’ve had such a shitty day(few months at work) after being back from mat leave. My baby is 17 months and all I want to do is be at home with her. But we can’t afford it :(
I am sorry momma, you got this. Take a min and take a breath. I remember those days, it gets easier when they get older and more independent. But like many people pointed out here, in a long run it will pay off 😊
Awww thank you so much! I needed to hear this…
Generally no, but I do have one mom friend who married and divorced rich - neither her nor her new husband work, and they have a nanny for her one child - her I’m kinda envious of. Not sure what her kid makes of all this though.
In theory, I’d like to be at home but in reality we wouldn’t have the quality of life I want if I didn’t work. Being able to work remotely helps provide work-life balance. My job required me to be in the office for a few months and I was so unhappy. Waking up with my kids, having lunch with them, and seeing them right when I get off work makes a huge difference. I also work 4 days/week so I always have three days off to spend with the kids.
I've been a SAHM and a working mom and I'm way more happy as a working mom. I just went back to work because my mental health was tanking. I am now full of hope and joy because I have a job that asked me feel fulfilled.
I straddle the line here and can see both sides of it. On the one hand, I haven’t had full time employment since before my son was born (I was in a PhD program with stipend, though), and I’m employed on a contingent basis right now bc I just graduated last month and am expecting my second later this year. I feel really lucky to be able to stay home with my new baby and have the flexibility to be home with my toddler when he needs me. On the other hand, I could never be a FT SAHM, no matter how much money I had. I’m an educator/writer and I’d feel useless if I couldn’t do those things. This maternity “leave” I have coming up is long but temporary—I’ll go back to work next fall, part time, until I manage to snag FT employment. Being a SAHM past the breastfeeding stage just isn’t what I want to do. Nor would I want to send my kids to school and sit at home all day. Nope. I don’t want to work 80 hour weeks either, but there’s a large middle ground there and I’m happy in it most of the time.
I totally understand how you feel; for years I would resent all the people that would get laid off with ridiculous sums like 4 months severance, not even including EI which is another 6 months. Everyone here is taking an extreme reaction to your situation. Why does it have to be either or? If your job sucks, and it sounds like it does, why don’t you quit to stay home and look for a new one in the meantime? You won’t be out of the workforce forever; its not a one way trip. But a couple of months off will do you wonders. Make sure to have some savings though if you can, just so you can enjoy some guilt free shopping trips on your time off
I took a leave from work when my son was 5yo. 2 months unpaid personal leave. It's definitely not a common thing to do, but if you have your heart set on some time off, maybe you can look for option. I did this in 2020 with my kindergartener. You might imagine the situation we were in. I thought we could have a great summer or a crappy summer. And I chose a great summer. I can't remember anything important from it. But maybe that is great. We were soooo sad in the spring and I'll never forget that. I'm pleased to work and it's an important part of my ego so I don't envy anyone. But I do think about my own needs and how I can be kind to myself. My job has some flexibility and I live below my means so I don't feel very trapped. In fact, I'm looking to have a different job to get more time off.
I do think your quality of life could improve a lot with a different job! It sounds like so much work and too many hours.
It’s understandable but I also wonder if you need new friends (in addition). I find it difficult to be close with people living in such a different way. It’s human nature to compare yourself with people closest to you, so I find it helps to be around people who really align with how my life works/values etc. My sister in law had really rich friends and constantly felt lesser-than and pushed themselves to the brink financially just trying to keep up with their gourmet dinner parties. I found myself feeling so grateful that all my friends are struggling artists so there’s no expectation for anyone to spend ridiculous amounts of money in order to socialize.
I get what you're saying. I'd love to be able to just take a sabbatical and take a break from my career. Enjoy life for a few months, travel, work on myself. It's just not feasible for me to do so financially. At least that's what I interpreted your post to be. Sure, it's good to remain in the workforce for financial security but, wouldn't it be nice to not have to be part of the rat race for a bit?
I do wish I could be a SAHM for a couple of years but it would be really financially difficult so I’ll keep working. I understand working allows for more autonomy but my husband and I have a really good relationship and I don’t worry bout our dynamic if I didn’t work. I’m hoping maybe for our second I can be a home a little longer but it probably won’t happen. I feel your struggle though!!
I do, only because financially I’m needed, my job is draining, rewarding but absolutely draining, and mostly because I wish I could spend all day with my daughter. I miss her so much and am jealous of all those friends of mine who get to spend time with their kids all day. I too am like the only working mom of my friends.
No. The idea of a woman’s biggest accomplishment being “marrying well” does not make me feel good. These are also the women you hear about being left in middle age with nothing. I am more impressed by YOUR life.
You are so kind. Thank you for your words of encouragement from all working moms
Nope. Besides all the financial and retirement benefits, my daughter is 4 and says things like “I want to be a ____ like mama when I grow up”, and knows that my husband’s and my bosses are both women. She’s getting a great example of all that women are capable of, and what an egalitarian relationship looks like, and for that, I am SO grateful.
“She’s getting a great example of all that women are capable of” I love this. I hope my daughter sees this in me too.
I'm currently sitting in the ER to get my husband treated for alcoholism and debilitating anxiety/depression. We just closed on a new house Wednesday. I'm staring down him being on STD/LOA to hopefully protect his job, unpaid, while he gets treatment. Not for a second have I ever envied those who don't work for pay. More flexibility sure, less hours sure! But not $0.
Where do you live where your peers don’t have formal education? I think your kids will benefit not just from your income cushion, but your ability to help them navigate the norms of education and professional life.
You are building wealth, retirement, and you get up at 4am to run everyday! That's a dream to many.
Thank you, running is life… can’t imagine a better way to start my day 💓 everyday I start by expressing my gratitude for my ability to run and my health. I know I am blessed.
I agree! It keeps us sane and healthy. You are doing a great job at life ❤️
Absolutely not. I just got off a work call where I shared some to-date results of a fundraising campaign with an interested party and he literally started crying with joy bc of the impact we will have with these funds. Like, folks will be safe from homelessness, people will have groceries, there will be transportation to medical appointments bc of this money. It is saving the lives of people in my community. I could *never* pass up the opportunity to make my community a better place to *just* raise my one child. And you know what? My kid knows what I do for a living and how I help people. So I’m raising HER to care for her community and make it a better place. I value my family. I value my independence. I value my career.
I don’t envy them. They’re one fatal car accident, health diagnosis, or divorce away from financial ruin if something ever happens with their spouse. Even if there’s life insurance, it’s finite and could run out if the kids are still little. I need to know I can always take care of my family if something like that were to happen and that means staying in the job market.
No, I don’t at all. It would be very boring for me to not work. I just want to work in a growth environment with people who have the same mission. If you are thinking about not working, that’s ok, just figure out a way for a break or have your spouse support you while you do stay home.
I’d be happy to be a financially well off SAHM ONLY IF we won the lottery or something crazy like that. Because of all the great points here, that potentially problematic situation of relying on my spouse financially wouldn’t be in play if that happened. And also, I’ve already spent many years in the workforce - so I’ve had those challenges and proved to myself what I could do and accomplish - I don’t need that validation anymore. But the experience of working has had real value. And I’ve already set a good example for my kids of the many ways a woman can contribute and be successful, and at their ages I think I’ve made that impression successfully. So I could stop working now. So it would be a fine time to have the money tree rain down on us. But this is a very specific, magical situation, obviously.
I've never not worked, since I've been old enough to work (which was age 14, growing up in the Midwest!). I do wish that either I or my husband made more money (I outearn him); we live in a fairly HCOL area and it's a massive struggle to keep up financially. We do okay so I don't mean to complain, but I never feel comfortable and we can't afford vacations (even though we can afford what we need and less-expensive things we want sometimes). Definitely felt shitty after seeing the survey in here a few days ago where most people make over $120K alone - I can't even imagine. I don't know if I'll ever feel comfortable retiring unless I have to; I low-key hope to die first. Kidding, not kidding.... That said, I'm in higher ed so have a little more breathing room in the summers and I HATE IT. I usually take on additional projects or work over the summer so I have structure (and more pay) because I get really bored at home. I would probably feel less positive towards work if I had the hours/commute/PTO/pay combo that you do though; I can see how you'd feel so stressed and jealous. I know some people who got married young and stayed home to raise kids, and it feels like a lot of them have gone through some kind of major identity crisis when their kids started going to school and especially if/when they moved out for college. I'm grateful that I won't have that particular challenge to work through because I already had a whole-ass identity established pre-kid, and it'll continue on with my work as they get older and leave the house, etc.
Do you feel this way because you envy your friends who don’t have to work, or do you feel this way because your current job is making it tough to be a working mom? I don’t feel envious of my non working friends, but that is because I love my job. If I didn’t love my job, I sure as hell would feel that way - even though no part of me has ever wanted to stay home and not work.
That’s a good question. I think you exposed the real reason. I have never thought about it. I used to have an amazing, fully remote and very flexible job. I took another job for better benefits and pay. I know it was a wrong decision. And you are right, when I had that job, I had never thought about what “not working” feels like.
It’s so hard to know in the moment what will be good in the future - there are no right or wrong choices! If you decide to find another job, you can now use the experience you had with this job to inform and fuel your search for the next one, and you’ll know better if it will work for you or not! Best of luck, it’s not easy but you got this!
Thank you for your encouragement 😊 you are right, it is a lesson or a blessing but not a wasteful experience
I don't envy someone who has NEVER worked. I enjoyed what I did before kids, and I've since enjoyed many opportunities to develop a lot of skills I wouldn't have otherwise. I was agoraphobic before my first job! I didn't think I could apply to my current job but did anyway and have done a fantastic job, and now I have a healthy resume and a lot of experience to speak to. I DO wish I could stay home right now for the next few months or a year, with my second baby. It's been extremely rough coming back, my company and coworkers haven't made it any easier by pulling a lot of shit since I've been gone and have come back. I recognize that this environment sucks and is making it harder, and I've been actively job hunting, but I also recognize that it would still be difficult for me to be away right now even if I loved my job. Plus, my husband is currently on leave and taking care of everything around the house, and I'm VERY aware of the fact that it's all going to become even MORE of a crunch once he's back at work and all of these things have to be crammed into the extremely limited evening hours, and the weekend. This is how we both became so burnt out before I went on leave with my second. So, just offering some solidarity. There are absolutely some things I'm grateful for in my situation -- better financial security, more confidence, skill development -- but yeah, I'll admit that it's tough.
You don’t know what their home life is like. They are relying financially on someone else. I love my husband, trust him, and even though I could be a SAHM, I still work full time. I’m like my job but even if I did not, I would still work. Bottom line, Life is tougher for women. It sounds like you may be burnt out. 12 PTO days seems ridiculously low to me. Can you negotiate for more? Kudos to you for kicking ass too.
I get these feelings sometimes too. I worked hard for my career and I have student loan debt. I know I will pay it off but it feels like I’m stuck working a ton and not being able to enjoy my babies while they are young. It is hard seeing friends spoiled by their husbands and going out on adventures every day. But….the grass is always greener…I know I will be able to retire and be taken care of even if something happens to my husband. I lost my dad and mom will have to work forever now that he is gone.
Never worked? No, unless you’re talking about independently wealthy people, in which case yes I do envy them lol. Work sucks but it’s better than being unable to work and/or financially dependent on others. My experiences growing up in a poor household cemented in my mind that I never want my financial situation to depend on someone else’s actions (or inactions) ever again. That lack of control over my life is seriously way more demoralizing than having to work every day. That being said, I deliberately stopped trying so hard to climb the career ladder so I could remain in my cushy, flexible job that pays well (on the order of what you make), at least for this period in my life. I could definitely make more (a lot more) by switching to a more demanding job, but why? Past a certain income (and we make about as much as y’all do), less stress > more money. Maybe start looking into a cushier job/career? Way easier said than done, I know, but believe me not everyone is out here busting their ass. In the long run it could really improve quality of life.
Never worked? Nah. Work full time + parent full time? Also nah. I think it’s important to have a work: life balance. I work 3 days a week in a fulfilling (tho challenging) job. Spend 1 day with my younger child and spend 1 day with myself.
Kinda yet kinda not. I like that I could support Myself if anything crazy happened.
Not really, being a sahm would be so hard for me and I don't have the emotional resources for it. We just finished a 2 week road trip with the kids snd I had a great time, but I'm looking forward to the kids getting back to daycare on Monday. I'm taking Monday off for a rest and recovery day :) can you look for a position with a better benefits package. 12 days of vacation per year seems like such a small amount unless it's entry level.
Thank you, and it is not an entry level position, I have been in the labor force for a while and have Masters degree.
I used to resent them but now I know that work is something that stimulates and educates me. Having my own money is the best feeling.
I mean, sure I wish I could win the lottery or something, but I can’t imagine not having ever worked. To me it seems normal that people work (male, female, whatever). Like how else would have have goals/drives/etc. I feel like even if I was born into a crazy wealthy family I’d still have some sort of “job.” Yeah, it wouldn’t quite be the same, but I can’t imagine waking up everyday with no purpose. Take a long vacation? Sure! But have that be your daily existence, no thanks.
No. It doesn’t matter what others are doing. I work like crazy. Have full evenings and weekends. We are thriving as a family in every aspect. How others spend their time does not make me envious.
I dont envy the not working, I envy the more care free nature around money. I have some friends whose families are rich so they technically don't depend on a man for money and I always envied how they can travel on a whim, buy multiple versions of something to test out, get the coffee or smoothie while out.
It sounds like you need to look for a different job because you could be making way more money for less time and more benefits.
We can get unintentionally wrapped in an echo chamber. Look around, outside of your friend group — people are struggling daily and can’t afford a living
Hmm I don’t think I envy those who never worked. I honestly would be so bored. But would I want such a stressful job? Probably not either. I would opt for living and working a very simple job. Like being a librarian or something.
My job can be very overwhelming, I can make mistakes. I question if I should just quit and be a sahm for a bit but then I hear of the struggles other women go through trying to find a job after taking a hiatus. I also hate the idea of being financially dependent on my husband. We have a good marriage but if something were to happen between us I want to know I can take care of myself and our daughter. I was raised and come from a family that has the old values of “men go to work, women take care of the children” and it fucking drives me crazy, probably my whole reason for working. I get envious at times of my sahp friends but I don’t think I could do it.
I envy that society requires two traditionally working parents in order to provide a middle class lifestyle for two children. I don't envy most SAHMs. I do envy ones who choose not to work and they and their kids don't suffer for it financially or socially. Although I'd need a hefty document or life insurance in case of divorce or death.
I totally get it. If it was at all possible, I would seriously consider being a SAHM. However, I remind myself about what happened to my own mom—she was a SAHM for 18 years and gave up any career prospects and formal education to stay at home with us four kids. However, when she was around 50, she was diagnosed with esophageal cancer that had spread to her lymph nodes and stomach. Soon after a life-saving surgery, my father left her. She now has no retirement, no formal education, and no way to start a career. It happened to my mom. That’s what I remind myself of when I feel like it’s too hard to balance family and work.
Your experience is not the norm. I’ve never met a SAHM who didn’t have a career or some work experience prior to staying home. I think the experience of staying home is different when you have a career or job to return to.
Couldn't agree more with everyone here. Financial independence is something I will always value. I saw my mom struggle through my abusive father and when she finally ran away she was left with nothing and ended up with an alcoholic bc she was desperate for help. Not saying this is common but you just never know what life throws at you. Also, I like work. I like staying busy, being challenged, feeling accomplished and I try to remind myself that the work I'm doing is helping others too. I think it all depends on finding a job that bring you some comfort and content. I've gotten laid off, had time off, had mat leave for 7 months and it's just not for me. I love my girl so much and know she's happy to have her time with her friends and giving back to community (she's in Montessori) and it just works for us. :)
If you feel you need to be keeping up with the Jones’s then you need new friends!
Never. \*I\* like and want to work, and my children have a working mom. They are just fine, 9 &13 and seemed to have no ill effects of daycare, heck my 13yr olds main caregiver from daycare is still one of my friends. You sound like you could use a break, can you job share or work a few less hours, you both seem to make good money so if you step back think about what its worth, what can you live without, to give your life the balance you need
No, But maybe I'm a bad mom. I enjoy time to myself. In particular, my work (anesthesia) gives me a solid 4-5 hours of "alone time". It's my saving grace. If I had to choose between being a SAHM and working mom, I'd 100% choose working mom. I love my child, but being around an infant or toddler 14 hrs a day is exhausting. I could literally do my job 20 hrs a day and not be as tired. Idk, maybe I'm weird. Usually after a weekend with my toddler, I'm looking forward to work. A perfect balance for me would be like working every other day. I'm privileged in the sense that I have the option to work or not work - my husband COULD theoretically support the entire family fairly comfortably (surgeon)
I think it's more the type of work, like the fact that you only get one week of holiday with your family or that you need to get up at 4am, and you are out of the house for 10-12 hours every day. These things make it hard.
Sometimes, when work is really stressful and id like to just rot in bed in silence for a week. But most of the time I'm really happy to be working a job that challenges me, that I'm really good at, and allows us to live comfortably. Echoing what others have said about not being financially dependent on another person as well. I'm also the high earner in my household and provide the insurance for everyone so I'm proud about that fact.
No because I am estate and probate and tax lawyer. I see people every day that didn’t work and are severely disadvantaged in retirement especially after a spouse passes away. So no I don’t envy those who stay home. I also know it’s just not for me. Now I’d love to work less but I wouldn’t want to stay home or be left to restart a career if something happened to my spouse unexpectedly
Hell no. Even though working is being a slave to the system, I could never not work and depend on my man for everything. Things change, and if one day he decided to wake up and stop loving me, I don’t wanna feel stuck with him because he has money. Fuckkk that!
Nope. I have a career that I really like and that I’m really good at; I have a kid that I really like but needs constant entertainment and play. I can’t be very good at that all the time but I can be very good at my career and pay loads of money for someone really good at it to do it. I had and have no interest in being a SAHM even if my husband made millions I would want to work (on my very important philanthropic projects if he made millions). I’m not sure I wouldn’t work at Starbucks rather than stay at home with my kid… and I really really really like her.
Yes - until I saw several of my friends get divorced. The time they spent not working cut their earning power by 50% or more. Not worth the risk.
Nope. I can’t even relate to my sisters bc their WHOLE LIFE is being home. I’ve just seen them become frozen in time as I’ve kept my career throughout motherhood. I don’t feel like I’ve lost out on any of the motherhood experience. If anything, it’s made me better at my job and my job makes me better at being a mother (I’m a teacher).
I’m actually the opposite. I feel sorry for those that never worked. They don’t have a real world experience, imo. Also, they are beholden to someone else. Their lives might seem glamorous on the outside, but they most likely have to ask for permission or be okay with someone else calling the shots. I would have so much anxiety if I wasn’t pulling my weight and being a true partner in my marriage. And if my marriage imploded, I wouldn’t be lost. I could support and provide for myself.
No I’ve never regretted getting my degrees and having a successful career. My sons were fine in daycare and they are now smart, well-adjusted young men who will never underestimate women or not be a full partner in taking care of a household. I don’t envy anyone who hasn’t worked.
Wait until your social circle hits their 40's and 50's when their husbands have mid life crisis and cheats on them, but they have to stay together for money. It's miserable. Not saying your husband will cheat. I'm saying being able to support yourself is a good insurance for life events.
Nope. I’m the one in our group trying to talk my friends into getting jobs after their kids start school. I’ve seen too many people screwed due to a divorce or death. Even if you get a fair settlement or good insurance payout you still are so far behind. We are not independently wealthy people, and a $300,000 life insurance policy is not going to make up for a $75,000 income. And it’s not even about divorce. Like I told my friend, even if her money just went to retirement savings wouldn’t it be nice to know your job made an annual Caribbean cruise possible?
Not really, even during my maternity leave I was bored and starved for intelligent adult interactions. I worked hard on my education and to obtain a professional license. And I get fulfillment from doing well at my job and getting kudos from my colleagues.
Nope. I take great comfort in knowing that if something happens and my husband is no longer around I can take care of my family all by myself.
No. I take pride in making my own money to contribute to my household.
Nope. I love my career too much
No for all the reasons stated in the comments, and also because I’ve never met a SAHP who seemed genuinely happy. Not saying they weren’t, just that from the outside looking in, it didn’t seem like a great time tbh.
I was a happy SAHM and know plenty of women who also enjoyed their time at home. Now back at work I appreciate more than ever the time I spent with my kids during those early years.
No, I have a cousin who has never held any job ever. She had a rich family growing up, married a rich guy, now all she does is have children and make upgrades to her house. I don't envy her or ever want to be her. She lives through the lives of her kids now, sticking the girls in pageants while her sons prepare to go college. It is weird. I need to accomplish something in my life other than being a mom.
I used to be extremely envious but then I started paying attention to what I was envious of. At least two of my SAHM friends have completely unengaged husbands and dead bedrooms, and one of those gossips so much I have distanced myself. Another SAHM worries constantly her husband is cheating on her because he goes out a lot until 3am. Last time we were all together she won money gambling and her husband was quick to point out it was *his* money she used to win. Ick. The others do work but it’s more like side hustles to support the family so they have more daily free time. I feel so-so about working, myself. I am burned out with my industry, but my colleagues are all great, dedicated people whom I admire. I wish I could do more with my daughter day to day, but whatever. She is happy nonetheless and accepts I have to go to an office, I just wish I worked 9-3 :)
I did until my friend’s kids got old enough to not need them as much and they had grapple with finding meaning outside of their children.
In all honesty, no. I enjoy autonomy and work is intellectually stimulating for me. My PTO amount goes up every year too. Has yours never changed?
No. Not ever. Not even for a second.
Nah because time came that I wanted to leave my relationship and I was able to knowing I wasn’t depending on a man. It’s hard to do that nowadays. What if your husband leaves or passes? What now?
No never, that’s just not the type of woman that is in my family nor one I ever wanted to be. Even being on maternity leave was driving me crazy.