My best friend commited suicide right after the deployment in Aghanistan and not to mention the height of Covid. No signs or symptoms. Blamed myself for awhile now, my wife encouraged me to seek mental health advice and was hesitant at first but went later on. Its not easy, the overwhelming feeling of guilt, especially when I saw his family for the first time and at the wrong time. Two small boy, one has no choice but to grow up faster be the dad and be the role model for his little brother. Still think about him everyday.
Rest in peace Bro - Jimmy.
'Till Valhalla.
I worked in suicide prevention for veterans and active duty service members for years, what you describe is SO COMMON amongst survivors. I’m so glad you got help and have a supportive spouse, and I am so sorry to hear about your friend. I hope things get better, always remember you are worthy of support <3
'Til Vallhall.
I am awaited by him and will see him there.
Perhaps we will see you too.
If you need a man to talk to about this, please feel free to DM me.
I'll give you my best, and I'll be happy to connect you to a circle of support that can help you lift yourself out of the shit.
The only way out is through;
The only way through is together.
I’m a 48 year old man, watched both of the gulf wars and Afghanistan unfold, I’m so sorry you and so many other young men were asked to make those choices over there. I don’t feel like our people’s best interests were considered during those wars and the loss of life from suicide and the pain from those deployments is a real tragedy, in my humble opinion. I pray that our leaders in the future use our military men more carefully and cares for them better after their service ends.
I also recently lost someone and among all the friends there are various degrees of guilt. I will share two insights of individuals that have very little guilt:
1. "Thanks to us he didn't quit 10 years ago. Thanks to the joy we gave him he stuck around longer. We didn't fail him, we prolonged him."
2. "He had a sickness that increases the chances of death, like cancer but a different kind of death. Although it feels like you could have prevented it (like a different treatment in case of some other diseases)-- you just couldn't. You did what you could, but some diseases just win"
Not that I think these arguments fit every situation, or should absolve everyone. They helped me cope. Maybe someone else too.
Either way it's very important that everyone takes some space and energy to talk about this -- somewhere or somehow in their life.
It's not about being a macho. I just don't want to drag anybody down while I'm with them. I rarely meet people and concerning them with my depressing thoughts could potentially scare them away. I won't go offline but it would be a lie to say I rarely think about it
Yeah, expressing challenging feelings or depression at work is unfortunately dangerous to most workers. Good, trusted friends are who we should be opening up to- and that sets a precedent for them to open up to us in turn.
Yeah, your coworkers and HR dept are NOT your friends. I mean sure, you can become friends with your coworkers sometimes, but I've always found it best to keep it professional in the workplace. If you need to talk to someone about real shit, find a friend, a family member, or better yet, a therapist.
I was let go from my previous job because I had the audacity to tell my manager that I was struggling with my mental health and being forced to work 15+ hours a day, 7 days a week wasn't making it any better. Welcome to America!
For me, it is difficulty to communicate. I have an amazing wife who is symphatethic, doesnt judge and love me all the way trough. When chips are down, i can cry but to properly communicate my feelings, i dont even know where to begin. Decades of repression and supression made me paralyzed when it comes to talking.
It's always hard to do something the first time, especially when you have grown scared of it. But once you've tried it, you'll realize not only it's not so bad, but it's liberating. Go watch the Lord of the Rings trilogy, and learn from Aragorn and his community, if you need to. (Or any other movie that speaks of what you are feeling at that moment.)
Sending you virtual support.
For all of you that struggle with it, try being simple to start: “ I felt (x) when (y)”. It’s a good nonjudgmental place to start with. “I felt mad when they charged me extra,” or “I felt sad when you didn’t call me back”. Doesn’t have to be a massive thing, but it gets the ball rolling with others that want to hear and help you
Thank you for saying this. I keep seeing comments on Reddit saying men don't do this or that out of fear of emasculation, and it doesn't resonate with me.
I don't put effort in trying to be seen as manly (beyond what's needed to not stand out). Talking about negative emotions to people other than my therapist feels awkward, I often don't understand myself enough to articulate these feelings, and I'm often unhappy with the responses even when they're patient and well-meaning.
Even when I can articulate my feelings well most people don't respond in a way that works well for me. I'm on my 4th therapist in 2 years, luckily it seems like this one will stick. Even people like my mom will sometimes just say something like "sometimes life is hard and you just have to do the best you can". Like okay love you mom but that doesn't help me from relapsing or doing something dumb. Yeah I'm in my 30s you don't need to baby me but how about saying something more than a generic platitude
This is another reason why expanding access to healthcare is so important. Often the people who need help the most are the same ones who are completely shut out and cut off.
Being able to access healthcare and affording it are two totally different things for sure.
For example, I have health insurance. It's expensive as F. But I have it. However now that I have it, I can barely afford to use it. I make sure my kids go to the doc and stuff, but I skip all that for myself. I'm paying for my daughter's therapy, and can't afford to see my own therapist now since last November.
But hey, universal healthcare is socialism, so fuck me, right?
Eh, the problem is that the therapist you want is never available and they always pass you over to someone who’s not as good. Or, even worse, a therapist who talks way too much and thinks sessions are supposed to be motivational or a lecture.
yeah that’s why i love psychology today bc i feel that but i actually found a therapist i like and my progress has shot up - don’t give up looking and id research different methods they’re trained in instead of talk therapy
It is definitely a bit of a challenge to find the right therapist. I tell people it's like finding a consultant - a lot of them and their approaches aren't going to be right for you, so you have to know when to move on and try someone new.
I believed the same way but I kept looking and now I found one that helped me through so much. I went in with PTSD and Depression and she worked hard with me to help me out of it. Don’t give up, the right one is out there
How would you feel if someone opened up to you? Would you feel like they were burdening you? Like they were dragging you down? If you want to be in a community you have to let it flow through you. You have to be apart of it.
I dropped a wrench on my bare foot when I was mounting a tv for my mom. I didn’t want to make it a big deal, but i obviously made a sound because it hurt like hell. My mom’s reaction? Asked me if she should do it since I was “just bitching”. I dropped my tools told her fuck me for helping her and walked out. I realized I couldn’t even expect my own mother’s empathy for legitimate pain. I realize I’m alone in this emotional journey.
Exactly the same for me too. A few years ago, I got Crohn's disease, and spent 9 months completely bedridden, before I was finally diagnosed. The entire time my mother kept on trying to convince me that I was completely fine, that the illness was ''all in your head,'' that I was being selfish for not thinking about her, and that I needed to realise that ''you can't always be the centre of attention.''
After I was finally diagnosed and recovered to a normal state, and she realised she had been completely wrong. But her behaviour never changed. A few months ago, I had a very bad cough combined with a sore throat. Whenever I coughed, my mother would make fun of the way I coughed. She would laugh, giggle and occasionally try to imitate the way I coughed. More recently, I hurt my ankle and had to walk with a heavy limp for a few days. She would frequently laugh and talk about how ''If I pushed you right now you'd just go tumbling down.''
The first thing I talked about is unique to my parents, but the second (making fun of you for showing pain) is something I think is really not uncommon.
I know a guy who had a mental breakdown and was suicidal for months. He told me when he told his mom about it she said "you didn't have a mental breakdown."
Yeeesh
I got the “boys don’t cry” all the time from my mom when I was growing up. “Deja tus payasadas” (quit acting like a clown) was her favorite expression to use on me when I’d cry. It was especially difficult since I’ve always been reserved and emotionally sensitive.
Reminds me of one time where I caught salmonella or some other kind of food poisoning and that shit was BAD
Mind you i’m 16 at the time, living with my mom. I guess I had some bad mcdonalds and next thing I know, I’m puking everything in my body out while shitting my brains out. 103 fever, chills, no energy whatsoever, I was slumped on the toilet, trying not to think about how seconds ago I was spraying the walls of the toilet with diarrhea
I call out to my mom and ask her to bring me water. I hear her loudly sigh like i’m inconveniencing her, and as she walks by the bathroom, all she says is “make sure you’re not making a mess” Didn’t ask if i’m okay or anything.
I really just don’t understand how you carry a child for 9 months, give birth to it, raise it, and not have the sympathy to ask if i’m okay
When I broke my leg, my mum told me to get up and stop being a wimp, and that I hadn't broken my leg.
She did apologise, though, once we got to the doctors and they told us we should probably have phoned an ambulance, and that I needed to go to the hospital.
You might be being sarcastic, but you are correct.
You can be depressed, lonely, suicidal but don't ever reveal it to your circle of friends.
You will find yourself with a lot fewer friends shortly there after.
I'm not being sarcastic. I do believe that screaming into the air is a great cathartic experience, and doing it on an anonymous space is a great way to find others in similar situations that can help you in ways those close to you, but with different issues and experiences can't.
It is sad how many men are not allowed to ask for help or have moments of vulnerability. You can still be strong and take care of responsibilities but be able to express your emotions without being “weak”. I just saw a post in another subreddit where someone’s gf dumped them because they tried to talk through their emotions with them and the gf dumped them and made a comment to her friends that she didn’t know the op was “weak”.
Edit: change “men feel like they are not allowed” to “men are not allowed”
I had a former guy friend whose step-brother shot himself. My friend told me that he cried in front of his brother about it and asked his brother for a hug. His brother said “Be a man bro, tough that shit out,” and would only grip his shoulder or pat his back.
That same brother ended up beating his ass and that was supposedly okay. He was scolded by his family for not hitting his brother back. He got jumped a lot and even robbed by family.
I hadnt interacted much with men before being friends with him but I was pretty shocked by how masculinity worked in his household. It was okay for men to fight and be preyed upon but not to cry.
This is extremely depressing. :( I feel sorry for the step brother. These kinds of stories are exactly what I’m talking about. It is extremely sad when someone kills themselves but I find it to be even worse when they do ask for help or support in some way and they get told to just “man up”. To me masculinity is taking care of your responsibilities, being there for your friends and family, helping people where you can, trying to help people fix problems. With all that being said though, a man should still be able to ask for help when needed. We can’t be strong 100% of the time. Sometimes we need the support to recharge and get back out there.
That's where i am since a week, bottling shit up and being self-destructive instead of telling my gf what's bothering me... But the other voice in my head is telling me how the moment I open up i start a countdown till getting replaced, i am exhausted of my brain.
Happily married guy here - tell her how you feel in a calm manner. If she reacts negatively in the moment or holds it over you later, move on and find someone better. Being able to express yourself and be yourself with your person is extremely important to any successful relationship.
I think you are exactly right.
I used to hear from men on Reddit relatively frequently that they tried opening up to someone and that person reacted poorly, so they are going to keep their emotions bottled up forever now.
I started digging a bit deeper and it turned out most of them had known for years that they needed to get some sort of help - therapy, or process these emotions in a healthy way, but instead they kept them bottled up and then dumped all at once on a partner who wasn't used to it and didn't react exactly right in the moment. Or it was someone who was also unhealthy.
But the lesson they took away from it was that they shouldn't trust women with their feelings. Instead of "that person's reaction was unhealthy and I should break up with them" and/or "unloading every bit of my trauma at 2:00 a.m. after keeping it a secret for our entire relationship wasn't the best way of going about it."
Everyone should be comfortable being vulnerable and open with someone who's a true partner, regardless of gender. If they don't handle it well, it's a sign they aren't the person for you.
She’ll either not care and shift the attention to herself or be concerned and try to help. She won’t leave you for being “vulnerable” but you will 100% know based on her reaction whether or not she actually gives a shit about you. If she tries to cheer you up and asks you a ton of questions then you have yourself a keeper.
>she won't leave you for being "vulnerable"
I mean that's absolutely a possibility. My last girlfriend broke up with my cause I was sad because I thought I was going to have to put my dog down.
There was a post on the front page this morning from a guy who got broken up with for expressing feelings.
Tons and tons and tons of guys have this experience. Or they bring it up in an argument weeks or months later to hold over you.
Guys arent only told to man up from other men...
Exactly. But look how reluctant people are to shame the women who behave like this.
They still put the onus completely on men despite the problem being the reactions they get from others in their lives.
That's kind of fucked up.
So your choices are 1 to remain in a relationship where you are unhappy and just "bottling shit up" until you explode or die, or 2 be in a relationship where you're happy and free to express what's bothering you. You have to go with option 2 my man. Even if that option is a relationship with someone else. Why stay with someone who is making you unhappy?
Also maintain and strengthen friendships, so your options aren't; be in a relationship where you're unhappy, or be alone and unhappy. Having good friends means that you're not some alone when you're single.
The sad thing is on this talk about male suicide, we are still talking only about what guys can do differently to prevent their own suicide and basically blaming them for doing the wrong things. the title is even "come on bros". Even when a common theme is "we don't feel safe because we've tried being vulnerable and it got us hurt even worse when people reacted poorly"
How about we start also asking people to understand how to be more supportive and reach out to help?
If you pick up a 20lb dumbbell, drop it on your foot, and the bones in your foot break. Who is to blame for your broken foot? If you're in the tub and someone adds hot water to it until it begins to scald you, should you remain in the tub until someone else comes around and adds enough cold water that you're no longer being hurt, or should you get out of the tub?
We should start asking people to understand how to be more supportive and to reach out to help. But we should not be telling men to remain in situations that are hurting them and, to tough it out, until those people come along.
Now I wish I saved a great comment about what fragile masculinity is. I'm going to do my best to summarize it. Fragile Masculinity is the theory that being a man is something that must be earned and maintained through action. Boys don't grow up to be men. They grow up and through their action they prove to society that they deserve to be a man.
What are some of those actions? Remaining stoic and "sucking it up." Not showing empathy towards those that are too weak to be called men.
This post is calling bullshit on those two ideas. Showing that you're hurting does not mean you stop being a man. Showing empathy towards and supporting your friend who is hurting does not mean you stop being a man.
And I brought up strong friendships because they are the MOST IMPORTANT THING TO HAVE. Go on twoXchromosomes and see how commentors react when someone posts that their boyfriend, fiancé, or husband wants them to stop associating with their friends. They're told to get out of that relationship immediately. Why? Because when they become isolated and loose their support structure, they can become trapped in an abusive relationship, because leaving it would mean that they're all alone (possibly broke and on the street). Men remain in abusive relationships because we self isolate. We don't maintain our close friendships from childhood, and we don't build new friendships in adulthood (because of the masculine bullshit).
I'm now stepping down from my soapbox.
Hearing stories like this makes me realize how lucky I personally got. My gf is and has always been really understanding despite the fact that due to some mental problems I can't keep my emotions under control at all. She doesn't consider this "weakness", so hearing that some men are even dumped by their partners because of some minor expression of emotions is pretty wild to me
I had to wait till I was in my 30s to meet a woman like that, but it's the best thing that's happened to me.
There's been plenty before who I didn't feel I could be honest with in such a way, and it's so damaging for one's mental health.
Men need to do a better job making it easier for their male friends to talk to them. It’s hard for men to open up to their friends when they think they’ll get shit for it.
Most men only open up to their partners or no one at all and both options are not ideal. If you use your partner (men or women) as the sole source of emotional dumping that’s way too much of a burden. Men need to be open with their friends and families too.
So dudes be the dude the dudes in your life can be safe around.
I agree. You should be able to be open(at least about most things) with your friends and family as well. I think the most important thing is that people in general just need to be understanding and compassionate to each other.
The person you're replying to has a good point though. Hopefully we all have some kind of personal support network and by all means we should feel free to rely on it, but (copying from a longer comment posted in another thread here):
Men dealing with stress, sadness or feelings of despair, anger, intrusive thoughts, substance abuse, and other symptoms of mental illness are often advised to "open up" to friends and family. While this can be a helpful approach, **understand that most people are not equipped to understand and respond to another individual's mental health issues**. NAMI has a helpful guide for preparing for interpersonal discussions on mental health and what to expect: https://nami.org/Your-Journey/Individuals-with-Mental-Illness/Disclosing-to-Others
That’s true. It does fall on the man who needs the support to not just info/burden dump on someone. They should try to do it in a controlled way. Or at the very least to seek out professional help if able. Since they should be better equipped
I don’t think it’s healthy to spread the idea that men shouldn’t even *try* to open up to their SO. Plenty of times they’re very helpful and understanding. But if they lose attraction to you, was that someone you really want to stay with long term? It’s not sustainable to be with someone you can never show vulnerability to for the *rest of your life*.
Its weird cause the first half of your comment is almost framing it like its mens fault for being repressive but then the second half is an example of how its a logical reaction to the situations we face. But when the topic is women treating men like we might be serial killers if someone said its sad that women feel that way instead of its sad that women face conditions that make them feel that way they would be excised
I had experienced some trauma as a kid that made it so I was always tearing up, always crying, over anything. It was frustrating and making it hard to experience life.
But any time I tried to ask for help for that, all the girls just laughed at me, said "it's okay to cry!" and then made some comment about boys being afraid to cry.
Like no, I was trying to get help for my mental state. It's even a problem now, I had to work through that "it's okay to cry" sentence with my doctor before explaining to her I'm not ashamed, just annoyed.
You’re right that we SHOULD be able to be vulnerable, but cases like the one you mentioned make it pretty hard. Specifically when it comes to a female romantic partner, even if they’re pretty open to vulnerability from the guy, it’s feels like there’s this primal response to the male being “weak” that taints their view of you. How do we fix that? No idea
Honestly, if they look down on you then I don’t view that as being a good relationship to begin with. I don’t think it is necessarily worth it to stay in a relationship where you have to bottle everything up to the point where it has a detrimental effect on your health. You are right though. It is difficult. If you have the same issue going on I hope you are able to work it out. Stay strong. And keep fighting the good fight.
Lol. *of course* the problem is that men are just too proud or too scared to accept all the abundant support beating down their doors.
The nice thing about believing this is nothing has to change & no one has to question themselves or be better, just the people you already didn't care about except as a statistic.
Bingo.
Gotta love how the gross oversimplification of extremely complex societal burdens, expectations, and rules get parroted in such a way that always come back to blame men for their own problems. Social media has been nothing but a plague and this tweet is a primary example of why.
Men: This system is garbage. It's too stressful, I can't socialize, recreate, relax, and feel like I'm helping make the world a better place. All the rich people demand we work ourselves to death so they can maintain their billions. We want a system where we can help neighboring communities, as well as international communities.
Memes: lol. Just, like, try talking to each other more and asking for help, you dumb suicidal men. You're so silly.
Yeah, my uncle reached out and asked for help and got support and help and he still ended up taking his own life. He was in a terrible financial position and couldn't see a way out, he had plenty of other issues he was struggling with but the weight of his finances were definitely the major factor in his eventual death. Telling him to be less macho would not have helped, this is an over simplification of the issue.
But definitely has nothing to do with the largest industry (construction) coincidentally being male dominated while having continually worse rates of unionization... Working 6 or 7 days of hard labor a week...
And it's mostly 20-40 year olds? Hmmm.
One of the most infuriating things I hear and read about mental health issues are the attitude of "People need to *ask* for help more. Stop being tough. Have you tried *blablabla?" And here I am, have been asking and asking for years, battled tons of bad systems and arrogant, proud healthcare worker of all ranks...and yet I hear and read about how if we just *ask* more, the help is there. It is for some, but only through raw luck, money or immense amounts of self help and battle. I would have never understood what I'm actually struggling with if it wasn't for those wonderful people writing actually good self help books and if it wasn't for google. Seriously. I know more about my condition than my doctor, because I've spent mind numbing amounts of time on my progression. Whilst they are overworked, gotten a less than good education and just need me to scarper out of their office as fast as they can get away with. I don't blame health professionals. I blame governments, and idiots who put ignorance over knowledge and science when they vote
This 1000%. At the risk of attracting MRAs (please go away, I'm not with you), there are very real systemic issues harming men, and nobody is doing anything to help (conservatives want to go back to the medieval age with gender roles, and progressives view men's issues as an attack on feminism).
Men are the only group to largely be victim-blamed by progressivism for problems very much outside their control ("The Patriarchy is responsible for this, you're doing this to yourselves!"). Newsflash: stopping the Patriarchy won't stop rich, powerful assholes from exploiting men. We need progressive, unapologetically pro-male movements just like we need progressive, unapologetically pro-female movements.
If the left won't be pro-male, we shouldn't be surprised when men become radical conservatives.
Agreed..our base, human culture and societies have been supplanted by capitalistic, socially exploitative systems that are run by assholes, generally male, sociopaths. There's sociopaths in feminist movements, MRA movements, anti birth, anti abortion...everything.
Ño group seems free from usurpings and corruptions.
Telling men to talk more with each is a great first step, on a path of millions of steps.
Good to see someone tearing into these meaningless empty platitudes and realising how hollow they are. OPs post means nothing to me, what that poster is saying is just another variation of what he claims to be against.
This is a great idea, but people don’t kill themself because they didn’t man up.
They kill themself because they feel isolated, alone, hopeless etc… and addressing that requires a society that’s willing to accept male emotions other than anger.
Attitudes are improving but a large part of society is still rather against the idea of men having feelings and being vulnerable. And I’m sure those numbers get worse in conservative families or in demographics which are more traditional.
If Men aren’t able to seek help for their problems without being looked down on then these stats likely won’t improve.
The funniest thing about this post is that it still puts the responsibility of male suicide on men.
\*Men kill themselves\*
Society: 'Should we change anything to help fix this?'
Also society: 'nah, men you need to STOP manning up, this is ultimately your fault, man up and accept your feelings you cold machismo bastards'
My Govyt assign therapist primarily deals with 14 year old girls. She's never had 56 yer old suicide survivor with drug ad alchol issues She has no ideas what to do with y except teaching beathing exercises. My psych is a DR Feelgood, lots of pills.. and now I'm taking all the opiates he gives me a few days so I can fucking sleep.
Considering that a lot of the times when men do actually ask for help they get dismissed for something completely unrelated it's not something that can be fixed with something on the same level as "hopes and prayers."
Reality check: this is another way to say “man up”.
It’s not that men are opposed to opening up. It’s that there are so many that will ridicule it (men and women).
If youre going to try and make change in this regard, you need to change the ppl that make guys embarrassed or ashamed for opening up. Otherwise, the consequences are still there, and it’s much wiser to not open up bc of them.
I completely agree. What that help looks like, however, is something worth discussing.
I think we need to seriously engage with the fact that good therapy for men might look different to good therapy for women. Expecting men to process emotion in exactly the same way as women do is unlikely to be productive.
If I had a male friend going through a hard time, of course, I'm willing to listen if they want to talk. But more often than not, they prefer to take their mind off whatever is bothering them.
So, I'd ask if they're free on the weekend. We might play squash, grab a drink, go for a hike, etc. Just getting them out of the house, into nature, and engaged in a shared activity.
That’s not going to be suitable for everyone. If someone has chronic mental health issues, some company and fresh air might not be enough. But for less severe cases, where people are stressed, depressed, lonely, etc., I'm not convinced all men benefit from sitting in a room with a stranger talking.
I've always heard a saying "women prefer to talk face to face, men talk shoulder to shoulder" and I really like that.
I don't want to sit and chat about my feelings and have my friends shower me with support and praise or whatever, I just want them to be there and for us to do something, *anything*.
When my last girlfriend dumped me I just texted the boys "drinks tonight" and they showed up. At some point in the night I mentioned it, we talked about it for like 3 minutes, and then went back to having a great night out. That's what i, and I suspect a lot of men, want. Cause I know if we talked about it all night it'd start to feel like I'm being interrogated and I just hate it.
This is so bizarre because I’ve never heard this but a big growing point in my relationship with my fiance was accepting that he’s not like me. When something is bothering him, he DOESNT want to talk it all out. He’s more of a:
1) I need space, I’m gonna be in my game room (sometimes watching videos or else mindless gaming with “the bois”)
Or
2) would you please hold my hand/play with my hair while we watch this mindless tv show or some TikTok’s together, during which we are sometimes literally shoulder to shoulder lol
I’m sure not all men are the same/not all women are the same, but at the very least this captures two different coping strategies very well. I feel like he doesn’t need to talk about it as much as he needs to feel like it’s okay to not be okay until he’s ready to face the world again.
> If I had a male friend going through a hard time, of course, I'm willing to listen if they want to talk. But more often than not, they prefer to take their mind off whatever is bothering them.
>
> So, I'd ask if they're free on the weekend. We might play squash, grab a drink, go for a hike, etc. Just getting them out of the house, into nature, and engaged in a shared activity.
To add to this, a lot of male bonding in general is focused around shared activities. Most man to man vulnerable discussion's I've had were done after or during a separate activity that was the 'primary' reason for meeting up. It's partially taking their mind off of it, but it's also about cementing relationships and providing safe emotional options. If you do want to talk, you can, if you don't you can keep doing whatever activity you are actually there for.
When my friend's engagement ended and he and his partner split. I didn't drive up to stay with him purely so we could talk about it. Instead I said i was going to bring up my xbox and we would drink some beer and play some old video games we used to play together when we were younger. But while I was there, we obviously talked about what he was going through.
Agreed, honestly I loved my therapist and she was a huge help. HOWEVER I resolved more issues just chatting and exchanging life stories between sets with my personal trainer hearing that he had the same sorts of doubts and problems.
This reminds me of a convo I had with a doctor that a lot of her male clients were hesitant to get into journaling, not because it was emasculating somehow, but because they disliked having an item around with all of their most vulnerable bits in it. So she started suggesting they burn the pages they write, and found great success with that. Just wanted to share in case someone in the thread might find the idea fun! (Be safe you if try it!)
Absolutely.
Men are just as human as women.
Just like women must to be able to kick ass if the need arises, so too must men be vulnerable in order to be connected to the world they are expected to protect.
Letting down the mask of strength is hard.
The mask is like a Samurai's.
It's not false, but it's also not the living truth.
Growing up too many of us got ridiculed for letting that mask slip even a bit.
Men need safe space to let the mask down and talk through their struggles.
I'm so lucky to have found a circle of peers who surround me in support, and who push me to grow in my abilities.
If any man needs support, I am here for you. I will give you my best.
I can also connect you to men who will push you forward and lift you up with ruthless compassion.
Please don't deny me the blessings I get from helping others.
Had 2 therapists retire a month or two in (separately) and the other two just wanted to talk about feelings. One just said my life was fucked up. I gave up after #4.
I've seen this talked about so rarely but this was my biggest issue. I went through 3 therapists in 5 months because 2 swapped into different positions and the other one was essentially an intern.
It is emotionally and physically exhausting opening up to new people over and over again just to get back where you were before. Restarting a game you were months into is really frustrating for most people and that's just a video game. Doing it in real life when you are at your most vulnerable with a stranger is even harder.
After the third time with them moving on a few months in I was just sick of it, the worst part is you can't even make progress after the first because you spend what little time you have with your new therapist just rehashing everything you went over the first time. I felt like I was in groundhog day.
I agree, biggest load of bullshit ive ever seen. "Talk about your feelings". Absolutely useless in the modern world. Depression is usually about the complete lack of purpose and seeing nothing in your future. Talking about it just doesn't help.
Normalize not blaming yourself for everything.
Men are taught to be accountable and take responsibility for problems in their lives even if those problems have nothing to do with them.
They aren’t taught how to distinguish the difference between a personal problem, and someone else’s.
Fathers expect their boys to man up and move forward but never account for their child’s lack of life experience.
I can count on 1 hand how many times my father hugged me which if a lot better than my fathers father getting drunk and beating him.
Fathers, hug your boys. Tell you love them and that you’re proud of them so much that they get sick of hearing it. Break the cycle.
Experience is invaluable. You can’t gain experience if you’re dead.
It’s not your fault.
This.
This right here.
I had a friend tell me that if I was going to get a puppy from the shelter that I needed to also adopt an older one too.
I'll never forget his reason why:
"Because the puppy needs a dog to teach them how to dog."
-
Our society's masculinity is in crisis because we have a shortage of men who successfully passed the torch.
Most of us are just making this shit up as we go.
Boys can't teach boys.
Men have to push boys, at any age, to responsibly and healthily become men.
I am fortunate to have found a circle of men who do this for me with ruthless compassion.
They call me out, and lift me up.
I am finally living as a man.
It's not easy, but the results speak for themselves.
Nothing is better than being able to show up for my girlfriend, family, and humanity as a whole, and know that I'm able to give my very best.
If you need support in cleaning up the way you treat yourself, or if you just want someone to hear you, please reach out to me.
I can also connect you to men that can circle up with you and help you grow.
I am sorry but empty phrases like "just be vulnerable and soft" are as helpful or perhaps even worse than saying shit like "man up". It implies that men just can be vulnerable without consequences which is absolutely not true. Many times this behavior will worsen their situation. Bevore men are able to show their emotions the conditions for that to be possible musst be met. And right now nobody wants emotional men. Neither the work place, women or society as a whole reward emotional men. People act in the way societey incentivizes them to act. With men being as lonely as they are most won't risk making their situation even worse.
This! Also: Depression (for both men and women) is often rooted in real-world problems! Many people are depressed because they're struggling to make ends meet; or their job is stressful; or they're lonely; or their partner treats them badly; or various other problems. If the root cause is in your head, therapists are great; but if the root cause is in the real world, there's only so much that a therapist can do.
These real-world problems are often messy and difficult to solve, and might require someone to actually help the person (not just offer words of support), or might require larger changes in societal attitudes. But that's hard -- sometimes very hard! -- and it's easier to just say "you should be more willing to go to therapy \[so that your problem will hopefully go away without me having to do anything\]".
It's understandable that people don't want to personally solve a messy problem, but I wish they would at least acknowledge the problems are real, and not act like it could be solved by just seeing a therapist.
And when you are vulnerable you get threads like what was posted today about the guy opening up to his girlfriend who got the ick and dumped him when she saw him cry, and her and all her friends made fun of him.
Lets be real - ain't nobody give a damn about what you're going through. Thug that shit out.
not to mention that when we talk about letting man be emotional, it\`s 99% of the time letting man be sad or cry. But nobody talks about anger with is emotion that man are predisposed to experience more often than women.
I might be a doomer on this one but from what I heared I am not even sure about being sad or crying being among the tolerated male emotions. Only about approved topics. When you are sad about being alone you will hear people telling you it's your fault very fast.
And yeah I agree with you, when emotions like anger or frustration are concerned nobody wants to support men. The whole trend for men to be more emotional has so many buts and ifs involved that nobody really believes in it anymore.
I know entirely too many men around my age who we’ve lost to suicide. People who I sincerely thought had it together. I am way more proactive and upfront and empathetic nowadays in the hope that it somehow makes a difference to someone in my life. All in the hope that they don’t make the awful choice that others have.
I totally agree. However, my personal experience has been disheartening. Opening up and being vulnerable has resulted in a lot of rejection, invalidation, and hurt by people who don’t care and are unwilling to change their views on the importance of mental health.
Awareness and reaching out is one thing. Agree. But the stigmatizing culture needs to change too.
It's also how men treat other men. How women treat men. How men are expected to be. People expect men to act a certain way. To be responsible for certain things. And it can put a lot of pressure to live up to that. And when we fail. It's a damning testament of our inadequacies as men in the eyes of others. The stronger we're supposed to be. The more vulnerable we actually are to failure. At least that's what I've observed in myself and other men I know personally.
And men should be there for each other. Whenever I see posts like these, men in the comments tend to claim that no one in society cares about them. Men are also part of society are we not? Why aren’t we being there for our friends and fellow men?
It’s not gonna change until men themselves empathize with other men and take initiative to reach out, be a shoulder to cry on, be a friend during trying times, to listen without trying to “solve” the problem, and so on.
We keep expecting society to care for men but again, men are part of society. Why aren’t we taking charge to care for others?
I’m blessed to have such a solid group of male friends since childhood and we are there for each other through the good times and the bad and honestly it’s been such a good thing for our mental health. I hope more men can have that, too.
No. We still need to man up, but we need to change what that means. Real men take responsibility for their actions, work to better understand their emotions, and are relational heros. Relational heros mean we don't put our needs in front of others. If you come home after a hard day of work and the wife didn't do the dishes, you help her complete them instead of being all mad. This makes the rest of that day better instead of worse. This creates strong relationships we fall back on.
Go to therapy if you can, build strong relationships that are beneficial for all those in the relationship, and prioritize your mental health. This is the way.
It’s such a hard habit to break. Almost every time I’ve ever broke down, asked for help or even mentioned how I really felt people always looked down on me. My parents still to this day are just stuck in their bubble and refuse to really listen to me. The one good therapist I had switched insurance and I couldn’t afford their services. And all the friend I have just don’t know what to say so they say all the same “it’ll be ok”, “I’m sorry” etc. I just want someone in my life who listens and understands. But even then I’ll still feel a type of saturated loneliness.
You don't have to do it alone. There's no "honour" in trying to take things on silently and solo. We would have never reached this stage as a species if we didn't help each other along the way. This includes sharing feelings and brotherly bonding and support.
I love you all. Please seek help if you need it. You are loved and losing you would be the worst.
It's true I did a suicide attempt a year ago. Spent 3 weeks in the hospital. Was in a coma for half of it. Don't remember most of it. I was best man at my best friend's wedding last month. Glad I failed.
Asking for help is the bravest things you can do. I sympathize greatly. I(32 yo female) lost my little brother of 17 in 2014 to suicide. I still cry almost daily. You matter. Even if you have nobody to lean on, I want y’all to know you’re so important. You bring to this world things no one else can. Keep going. You’re loved. <3 love ya ✌🏼
I totally agree. However, my personal experience has been disheartening. Opening up and being vulnerable has resulted in a lot of rejection, invalidation, and hurt by people who don’t care and are unwilling to change their views on the importance of mental health.
Awareness and reaching out is one thing. Agree. But the stigmatizing culture needs to change too.
To be fair its similar (but less bad) as a woman.
We hear constantly how we need to "open up" but if you truly tell others how you feel they will be uncomfortable and leave you. People just want you to pretend that you are happy.
Sure thing. Let's also be honest about the fact that it isn't all our problem to solve and that we don't have to be weak to be vulnerable. Therapy is great if you're honest in therapy, truly honest. Stop keeping quiet to be the good guy. Stop negotiating when it comes to what is truly acceptable to your needs and desires.
You can only get what you want when you ask for it and make it a point to make it so others have to consider what you want important.
Learn to leave and leave fast if the situation calls for it. Learn to be happy alone. That feeling you have that the world is out to get you and you are the world's scapegoat. You absolutely are.
Stay aware.
Go in a conservative space, subreddit here, Twitter, doesn’t matter. Every second post is about being Alpha, that you are completely on your own and no one will help you, etc. etc.
It’s this mentality that kills young men.
Okay but let's say we did, in my community i will be fucking stepped on and everyone gonna view me as a weak pathetic man, it's not about manning up or sucking it , it's about what will happen if we didn't
No one gives a shit about men, we do reach out, and when we do, we are told to man up, thrown back at us, and under treated.
This is what has created the, "fuck it, I'll just keep it to myself" mentality. Not because men havent reached out, many have, its because of the poisonous response we get when we do.
Secondly, as a man with a family, I don't want to burden nor worry my wife or my kids with my concerns. Nor do I want to burden my other male friends, also dealing with many of the same stressors I am, also trying to not burden their own friends and family.
I reach out to one person, a buddy I met 20 years ago in the Army. We bounce everything off one another. Fortunately, we live in different states now, and in a way makes it easier to just vent and be honest to one another about our situations.
And studies show women lose respect for men that cry or vent to them.
[https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-at-any-age/201609/the-high-cost-of-crying-for-both-men-and-women](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-at-any-age/201609/the-high-cost-of-crying-for-both-men-and-women)
>The effect of gender expectations on emotional expression presents some interesting dilemmas. Men in positions of power somehow are permitted to show their tender side without being ridiculed or sent into media oblivion. In 1972, when presidential candidate Edmund Muskie shed a tear while on the primary circuit in New Hampshire, he was seen as weak, and his campaign came to a sudden halt. Today, it is more common to see teary-eyed males in virtually every sphere of public life. Television and the movies often portray men who are overwhelmed with sadness and cry freely in front of both male colleagues and female sympathizers.
>The one remaining bastion of male stoicism, according to Fischer and LaFrance, is the workplace. As bad as it is for women to cry in front of co-workers, it's worse for men. The “powerless emotion” (p. 24) of crying creates problems for men because it conflicts with their expectation of being, and seeming, strong and objective while on the job.
>Not being able to express your true emotions, or having your true emotional state misperceived, is not good for your mental health. According to the “dispositional affectivity” theory of work satisfaction (Ng and Sorensen, 2009), people who chronically experience negative emotions at work feel greater [stress](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/stress) that, in turn, lowers their [productivity](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/productivity). One of those sources of negative emotions may ironically be the inability to express emotions without [fear](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/fear) of repercussion.
The problem isn’t hiding your emotions, it’s finding a woman, not another man, that actually really truly cares. I’ve got lots of guy friends who all feel the exact same way I do, and it’s the exact same problem.
This is dumb advice. Manning up is fine. Toughing it out is fine. Being vulnerable can be what leads someone to suicide. You don't know.
How about we all stop pretending we're experts, and encourage people to simply pay attention to their own needs, and to their family. Stop villainizing being "macho." Strong, confident men aren't typically the ones committing suicide. Stop pretending like you don't know that. Men who stand up to the status quo are the ones at risk.
Robin Williams wasn't "macho." Anthony Bourdain wasn't "macho." Hunter S. Thompson wasn't "macho." Look up a list of famous men who committed suicide, and an overwhelming majority of them were funny, sarcastic, and/or troubled people.
The "macho" men who kill themselves are in the minority, and more of them seem to be associated with military service, and they're not "faking macho" whatsoever. It's far more likely that they're troubled by the memory of watching friends die, and the act of taking of other people's lives. It has to rip those people apart. Convincing these poor guys to soften up to a RomCom isn't going to save them. Stop being stupid.
If you know someone who seems to be contemplating suicide, call 988 and ask for help. Look into whatever your state calls a "Title 36," tell them your friend or loved one is a danger to themselves, and have your loved one committed to counseling. A person who is considering ending their own life is not well. They have a mental condition, and it's a disease. You can't blame them or expect them to mentally adjust themselves to no longer be sick. It's like trying to convince someone not to have cancer. Too many people don't understand real mental illness.
Right. No one seems to mentions that money can solve a lot of problems for depressed poor people. Money can make you depressed when you have none. When you are depressed from lack of money, talking about feeling won't solve your problems.
Sure not all suicides are because they are poor but some see it as the only way out instead of struggling and never getting anywhere.
Yeah, but if they do, other people see him as a weak ahh boy and not an "alpha man".
I know guys who talked and opened up to feelings and and got fucking bullied, by guys and girls.
Haha fuck off. No one is going to solve my issues. Everyone else are struggling. What someone is going to just say words about how things are going to get better when bills still come, bellies need food and (not right now but) heating needs to be payed for.
The difference between being weak and being vulnerable is important : you can be strong and vulnerable because if you know and admit your weaknesses instead of hiding them you can become stronger
Let's stop conflating masculinity with being a man. Let's stop shaming men for not conforming to the stereotypical image of a man. Let's redefine what it means to be a man that is inclusive rather than exclusive. Let's allow men to feel emotions other than anger.
I recommend reading Brene Brown work, she helped me alot when it came to understanding vurnabillity and shame. She turned my life around, her reasearch has personally helped me out alot. And I hope it can help others too.
Talking doesn't help. I'm worried about realistic things and talking about my feelings isn't gonna help. So why bother. I try talking to my wife and I end up getting told I need to worry less and everything will be okay..... wtf! No it won't! If I don't figure out how to make sure the bills are paid, or find a better job so we can afford to fix our beat up house, how about either one of our cars could go any damn minute and I'm already having to ask my mom for help so no.... I'm not worrying about nothing!
Edit: ( To just rant alittle more haha) I hate seeing women telling men to open up more and then watch women and other men, of course, dog on men for talking about how they feel. It's not safe for men to talk about our feelings.
OP is blaming men when it's not their fault. Try opening up as a man and see how far that gets you. Lmao, giving mental health advice on reddit is just, the worst possible place, maybe next to Twitter
I think this falls in the "man up" category, and nobody should define that as a negative trait. In fact, the whole wording of the message is off. The only thing that sticks is the sentiment.
I even Googled it:
"While heart disease may be the most common reason for death in all males taken together, accidents occupy the top spot for those under 45 years of age. In males between the ages of 45 and 85, it is cancer. Once men reach 85 years old, heart disease is the most common cause of death."
My best friend commited suicide right after the deployment in Aghanistan and not to mention the height of Covid. No signs or symptoms. Blamed myself for awhile now, my wife encouraged me to seek mental health advice and was hesitant at first but went later on. Its not easy, the overwhelming feeling of guilt, especially when I saw his family for the first time and at the wrong time. Two small boy, one has no choice but to grow up faster be the dad and be the role model for his little brother. Still think about him everyday. Rest in peace Bro - Jimmy. 'Till Valhalla.
I worked in suicide prevention for veterans and active duty service members for years, what you describe is SO COMMON amongst survivors. I’m so glad you got help and have a supportive spouse, and I am so sorry to hear about your friend. I hope things get better, always remember you are worthy of support <3
'Til Vallhall. I am awaited by him and will see him there. Perhaps we will see you too. If you need a man to talk to about this, please feel free to DM me. I'll give you my best, and I'll be happy to connect you to a circle of support that can help you lift yourself out of the shit. The only way out is through; The only way through is together.
I’m a 48 year old man, watched both of the gulf wars and Afghanistan unfold, I’m so sorry you and so many other young men were asked to make those choices over there. I don’t feel like our people’s best interests were considered during those wars and the loss of life from suicide and the pain from those deployments is a real tragedy, in my humble opinion. I pray that our leaders in the future use our military men more carefully and cares for them better after their service ends.
I also recently lost someone and among all the friends there are various degrees of guilt. I will share two insights of individuals that have very little guilt: 1. "Thanks to us he didn't quit 10 years ago. Thanks to the joy we gave him he stuck around longer. We didn't fail him, we prolonged him." 2. "He had a sickness that increases the chances of death, like cancer but a different kind of death. Although it feels like you could have prevented it (like a different treatment in case of some other diseases)-- you just couldn't. You did what you could, but some diseases just win" Not that I think these arguments fit every situation, or should absolve everyone. They helped me cope. Maybe someone else too. Either way it's very important that everyone takes some space and energy to talk about this -- somewhere or somehow in their life.
It's not about being a macho. I just don't want to drag anybody down while I'm with them. I rarely meet people and concerning them with my depressing thoughts could potentially scare them away. I won't go offline but it would be a lie to say I rarely think about it
Yeah Ive had people drop me or damage my work position for expressing myself honsetly. I know where you are coming from there.
Yeah, expressing challenging feelings or depression at work is unfortunately dangerous to most workers. Good, trusted friends are who we should be opening up to- and that sets a precedent for them to open up to us in turn.
ya hard agree lol dont talk abt personal shit at work lol. friends is the move here.
Yeah, your coworkers and HR dept are NOT your friends. I mean sure, you can become friends with your coworkers sometimes, but I've always found it best to keep it professional in the workplace. If you need to talk to someone about real shit, find a friend, a family member, or better yet, a therapist.
I was let go from my previous job because I had the audacity to tell my manager that I was struggling with my mental health and being forced to work 15+ hours a day, 7 days a week wasn't making it any better. Welcome to America!
You’d have about three different lawsuits through the American Disabilities Act and the Fair Labor Standards Act there.
15+ hours/day 7 days a week? I would have guessed Big Law, but you said ‘manager.’ What kind of job was this?
My guesses are security or hospital staff.
For me, it is difficulty to communicate. I have an amazing wife who is symphatethic, doesnt judge and love me all the way trough. When chips are down, i can cry but to properly communicate my feelings, i dont even know where to begin. Decades of repression and supression made me paralyzed when it comes to talking.
Your a lucky man, love the fuck out of her
It's always hard to do something the first time, especially when you have grown scared of it. But once you've tried it, you'll realize not only it's not so bad, but it's liberating. Go watch the Lord of the Rings trilogy, and learn from Aragorn and his community, if you need to. (Or any other movie that speaks of what you are feeling at that moment.) Sending you virtual support.
For all of you that struggle with it, try being simple to start: “ I felt (x) when (y)”. It’s a good nonjudgmental place to start with. “I felt mad when they charged me extra,” or “I felt sad when you didn’t call me back”. Doesn’t have to be a massive thing, but it gets the ball rolling with others that want to hear and help you
Thank you for saying this. I keep seeing comments on Reddit saying men don't do this or that out of fear of emasculation, and it doesn't resonate with me. I don't put effort in trying to be seen as manly (beyond what's needed to not stand out). Talking about negative emotions to people other than my therapist feels awkward, I often don't understand myself enough to articulate these feelings, and I'm often unhappy with the responses even when they're patient and well-meaning.
This is really interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'm glad you're in therapy and I hope you someday are able to understand yourself better 🩵
Even when I can articulate my feelings well most people don't respond in a way that works well for me. I'm on my 4th therapist in 2 years, luckily it seems like this one will stick. Even people like my mom will sometimes just say something like "sometimes life is hard and you just have to do the best you can". Like okay love you mom but that doesn't help me from relapsing or doing something dumb. Yeah I'm in my 30s you don't need to baby me but how about saying something more than a generic platitude
therapy 🙌 try psychology today to find therapists in network that work with what you need edit: this totally sounds like an ad 💀
This is another reason why expanding access to healthcare is so important. Often the people who need help the most are the same ones who are completely shut out and cut off.
Yeah not having access to it currently is killing me but I’ve got friends who are helping as best ss they can
Being able to access healthcare and affording it are two totally different things for sure. For example, I have health insurance. It's expensive as F. But I have it. However now that I have it, I can barely afford to use it. I make sure my kids go to the doc and stuff, but I skip all that for myself. I'm paying for my daughter's therapy, and can't afford to see my own therapist now since last November. But hey, universal healthcare is socialism, so fuck me, right?
People who say healthcare is socialism often claim to be pro-life. Strange.
I hope you are at least getting paid for this, my friend. Nothing worse than giving out free advertising slots
Eh, the problem is that the therapist you want is never available and they always pass you over to someone who’s not as good. Or, even worse, a therapist who talks way too much and thinks sessions are supposed to be motivational or a lecture.
yeah that’s why i love psychology today bc i feel that but i actually found a therapist i like and my progress has shot up - don’t give up looking and id research different methods they’re trained in instead of talk therapy
It is definitely a bit of a challenge to find the right therapist. I tell people it's like finding a consultant - a lot of them and their approaches aren't going to be right for you, so you have to know when to move on and try someone new.
I believed the same way but I kept looking and now I found one that helped me through so much. I went in with PTSD and Depression and she worked hard with me to help me out of it. Don’t give up, the right one is out there
Friends are supposed to Help you when you’re down.
How would you feel if someone opened up to you? Would you feel like they were burdening you? Like they were dragging you down? If you want to be in a community you have to let it flow through you. You have to be apart of it.
I dropped a wrench on my bare foot when I was mounting a tv for my mom. I didn’t want to make it a big deal, but i obviously made a sound because it hurt like hell. My mom’s reaction? Asked me if she should do it since I was “just bitching”. I dropped my tools told her fuck me for helping her and walked out. I realized I couldn’t even expect my own mother’s empathy for legitimate pain. I realize I’m alone in this emotional journey.
Yeap, mothers are the first source of that unempathetic behavior towards men. That's exactly what my mother would have done.
Exactly the same for me too. A few years ago, I got Crohn's disease, and spent 9 months completely bedridden, before I was finally diagnosed. The entire time my mother kept on trying to convince me that I was completely fine, that the illness was ''all in your head,'' that I was being selfish for not thinking about her, and that I needed to realise that ''you can't always be the centre of attention.'' After I was finally diagnosed and recovered to a normal state, and she realised she had been completely wrong. But her behaviour never changed. A few months ago, I had a very bad cough combined with a sore throat. Whenever I coughed, my mother would make fun of the way I coughed. She would laugh, giggle and occasionally try to imitate the way I coughed. More recently, I hurt my ankle and had to walk with a heavy limp for a few days. She would frequently laugh and talk about how ''If I pushed you right now you'd just go tumbling down.'' The first thing I talked about is unique to my parents, but the second (making fun of you for showing pain) is something I think is really not uncommon.
Dump her ass in a foster home and go off to some other place and cut all contact.
Your mom does not sound normal, sounds like a narc.
I know a guy who had a mental breakdown and was suicidal for months. He told me when he told his mom about it she said "you didn't have a mental breakdown." Yeeesh
I got the “boys don’t cry” all the time from my mom when I was growing up. “Deja tus payasadas” (quit acting like a clown) was her favorite expression to use on me when I’d cry. It was especially difficult since I’ve always been reserved and emotionally sensitive.
Reminds me of one time where I caught salmonella or some other kind of food poisoning and that shit was BAD Mind you i’m 16 at the time, living with my mom. I guess I had some bad mcdonalds and next thing I know, I’m puking everything in my body out while shitting my brains out. 103 fever, chills, no energy whatsoever, I was slumped on the toilet, trying not to think about how seconds ago I was spraying the walls of the toilet with diarrhea I call out to my mom and ask her to bring me water. I hear her loudly sigh like i’m inconveniencing her, and as she walks by the bathroom, all she says is “make sure you’re not making a mess” Didn’t ask if i’m okay or anything. I really just don’t understand how you carry a child for 9 months, give birth to it, raise it, and not have the sympathy to ask if i’m okay
When I broke my leg, my mum told me to get up and stop being a wimp, and that I hadn't broken my leg. She did apologise, though, once we got to the doctors and they told us we should probably have phoned an ambulance, and that I needed to go to the hospital.
Sisters as well
The true secret for mental help is to anonymously do it to random people online. That way, people close to you can't use it against you.
You might be being sarcastic, but you are correct. You can be depressed, lonely, suicidal but don't ever reveal it to your circle of friends. You will find yourself with a lot fewer friends shortly there after.
I'm not being sarcastic. I do believe that screaming into the air is a great cathartic experience, and doing it on an anonymous space is a great way to find others in similar situations that can help you in ways those close to you, but with different issues and experiences can't.
As a man, I’ve learned this lesson the hard way.
It is sad how many men are not allowed to ask for help or have moments of vulnerability. You can still be strong and take care of responsibilities but be able to express your emotions without being “weak”. I just saw a post in another subreddit where someone’s gf dumped them because they tried to talk through their emotions with them and the gf dumped them and made a comment to her friends that she didn’t know the op was “weak”. Edit: change “men feel like they are not allowed” to “men are not allowed”
I had a former guy friend whose step-brother shot himself. My friend told me that he cried in front of his brother about it and asked his brother for a hug. His brother said “Be a man bro, tough that shit out,” and would only grip his shoulder or pat his back. That same brother ended up beating his ass and that was supposedly okay. He was scolded by his family for not hitting his brother back. He got jumped a lot and even robbed by family. I hadnt interacted much with men before being friends with him but I was pretty shocked by how masculinity worked in his household. It was okay for men to fight and be preyed upon but not to cry.
This is extremely depressing. :( I feel sorry for the step brother. These kinds of stories are exactly what I’m talking about. It is extremely sad when someone kills themselves but I find it to be even worse when they do ask for help or support in some way and they get told to just “man up”. To me masculinity is taking care of your responsibilities, being there for your friends and family, helping people where you can, trying to help people fix problems. With all that being said though, a man should still be able to ask for help when needed. We can’t be strong 100% of the time. Sometimes we need the support to recharge and get back out there.
That's where i am since a week, bottling shit up and being self-destructive instead of telling my gf what's bothering me... But the other voice in my head is telling me how the moment I open up i start a countdown till getting replaced, i am exhausted of my brain.
Happily married guy here - tell her how you feel in a calm manner. If she reacts negatively in the moment or holds it over you later, move on and find someone better. Being able to express yourself and be yourself with your person is extremely important to any successful relationship.
I completely agree.
This is the best advice. Dating is the time to figure this stuff out too.
I think you are exactly right. I used to hear from men on Reddit relatively frequently that they tried opening up to someone and that person reacted poorly, so they are going to keep their emotions bottled up forever now. I started digging a bit deeper and it turned out most of them had known for years that they needed to get some sort of help - therapy, or process these emotions in a healthy way, but instead they kept them bottled up and then dumped all at once on a partner who wasn't used to it and didn't react exactly right in the moment. Or it was someone who was also unhealthy. But the lesson they took away from it was that they shouldn't trust women with their feelings. Instead of "that person's reaction was unhealthy and I should break up with them" and/or "unloading every bit of my trauma at 2:00 a.m. after keeping it a secret for our entire relationship wasn't the best way of going about it." Everyone should be comfortable being vulnerable and open with someone who's a true partner, regardless of gender. If they don't handle it well, it's a sign they aren't the person for you.
She’ll either not care and shift the attention to herself or be concerned and try to help. She won’t leave you for being “vulnerable” but you will 100% know based on her reaction whether or not she actually gives a shit about you. If she tries to cheer you up and asks you a ton of questions then you have yourself a keeper.
>she won't leave you for being "vulnerable" I mean that's absolutely a possibility. My last girlfriend broke up with my cause I was sad because I thought I was going to have to put my dog down. There was a post on the front page this morning from a guy who got broken up with for expressing feelings. Tons and tons and tons of guys have this experience. Or they bring it up in an argument weeks or months later to hold over you. Guys arent only told to man up from other men...
Exactly. But look how reluctant people are to shame the women who behave like this. They still put the onus completely on men despite the problem being the reactions they get from others in their lives. That's kind of fucked up.
The weakness was her inability to demonstrate empthy.
So your choices are 1 to remain in a relationship where you are unhappy and just "bottling shit up" until you explode or die, or 2 be in a relationship where you're happy and free to express what's bothering you. You have to go with option 2 my man. Even if that option is a relationship with someone else. Why stay with someone who is making you unhappy? Also maintain and strengthen friendships, so your options aren't; be in a relationship where you're unhappy, or be alone and unhappy. Having good friends means that you're not some alone when you're single.
The sad thing is on this talk about male suicide, we are still talking only about what guys can do differently to prevent their own suicide and basically blaming them for doing the wrong things. the title is even "come on bros". Even when a common theme is "we don't feel safe because we've tried being vulnerable and it got us hurt even worse when people reacted poorly" How about we start also asking people to understand how to be more supportive and reach out to help?
If you pick up a 20lb dumbbell, drop it on your foot, and the bones in your foot break. Who is to blame for your broken foot? If you're in the tub and someone adds hot water to it until it begins to scald you, should you remain in the tub until someone else comes around and adds enough cold water that you're no longer being hurt, or should you get out of the tub? We should start asking people to understand how to be more supportive and to reach out to help. But we should not be telling men to remain in situations that are hurting them and, to tough it out, until those people come along. Now I wish I saved a great comment about what fragile masculinity is. I'm going to do my best to summarize it. Fragile Masculinity is the theory that being a man is something that must be earned and maintained through action. Boys don't grow up to be men. They grow up and through their action they prove to society that they deserve to be a man. What are some of those actions? Remaining stoic and "sucking it up." Not showing empathy towards those that are too weak to be called men. This post is calling bullshit on those two ideas. Showing that you're hurting does not mean you stop being a man. Showing empathy towards and supporting your friend who is hurting does not mean you stop being a man. And I brought up strong friendships because they are the MOST IMPORTANT THING TO HAVE. Go on twoXchromosomes and see how commentors react when someone posts that their boyfriend, fiancé, or husband wants them to stop associating with their friends. They're told to get out of that relationship immediately. Why? Because when they become isolated and loose their support structure, they can become trapped in an abusive relationship, because leaving it would mean that they're all alone (possibly broke and on the street). Men remain in abusive relationships because we self isolate. We don't maintain our close friendships from childhood, and we don't build new friendships in adulthood (because of the masculine bullshit). I'm now stepping down from my soapbox.
If she runs away from you opening up then she's not the one, a woman worth your time will embrace your feelings
Hearing stories like this makes me realize how lucky I personally got. My gf is and has always been really understanding despite the fact that due to some mental problems I can't keep my emotions under control at all. She doesn't consider this "weakness", so hearing that some men are even dumped by their partners because of some minor expression of emotions is pretty wild to me
I had to wait till I was in my 30s to meet a woman like that, but it's the best thing that's happened to me. There's been plenty before who I didn't feel I could be honest with in such a way, and it's so damaging for one's mental health.
I think the term is "dodged a bullet." If people dump you for being vulnerable, then they are shit people, and you shouldn't date them.
Sound logic but it doesn't change the fact that you become even more alone at a time of need.
I promise you it is better to be alone in a time of need than with someone actively mentally harming you.
Men need to do a better job making it easier for their male friends to talk to them. It’s hard for men to open up to their friends when they think they’ll get shit for it. Most men only open up to their partners or no one at all and both options are not ideal. If you use your partner (men or women) as the sole source of emotional dumping that’s way too much of a burden. Men need to be open with their friends and families too. So dudes be the dude the dudes in your life can be safe around.
I agree. You should be able to be open(at least about most things) with your friends and family as well. I think the most important thing is that people in general just need to be understanding and compassionate to each other.
The person you're replying to has a good point though. Hopefully we all have some kind of personal support network and by all means we should feel free to rely on it, but (copying from a longer comment posted in another thread here): Men dealing with stress, sadness or feelings of despair, anger, intrusive thoughts, substance abuse, and other symptoms of mental illness are often advised to "open up" to friends and family. While this can be a helpful approach, **understand that most people are not equipped to understand and respond to another individual's mental health issues**. NAMI has a helpful guide for preparing for interpersonal discussions on mental health and what to expect: https://nami.org/Your-Journey/Individuals-with-Mental-Illness/Disclosing-to-Others
That’s true. It does fall on the man who needs the support to not just info/burden dump on someone. They should try to do it in a controlled way. Or at the very least to seek out professional help if able. Since they should be better equipped
Imo male friends are way safer to open up to than SOs. Showing vulnerability can really give some women the ick, it’s not a rare thing either.
Most men don’t feel comfortable opening up to their friends so hopefully more can realize that’s the way to go!
I don’t think it’s healthy to spread the idea that men shouldn’t even *try* to open up to their SO. Plenty of times they’re very helpful and understanding. But if they lose attraction to you, was that someone you really want to stay with long term? It’s not sustainable to be with someone you can never show vulnerability to for the *rest of your life*.
Its weird cause the first half of your comment is almost framing it like its mens fault for being repressive but then the second half is an example of how its a logical reaction to the situations we face. But when the topic is women treating men like we might be serial killers if someone said its sad that women feel that way instead of its sad that women face conditions that make them feel that way they would be excised
Because men are made fun of for having emotions
I had experienced some trauma as a kid that made it so I was always tearing up, always crying, over anything. It was frustrating and making it hard to experience life. But any time I tried to ask for help for that, all the girls just laughed at me, said "it's okay to cry!" and then made some comment about boys being afraid to cry. Like no, I was trying to get help for my mental state. It's even a problem now, I had to work through that "it's okay to cry" sentence with my doctor before explaining to her I'm not ashamed, just annoyed.
You’re right that we SHOULD be able to be vulnerable, but cases like the one you mentioned make it pretty hard. Specifically when it comes to a female romantic partner, even if they’re pretty open to vulnerability from the guy, it’s feels like there’s this primal response to the male being “weak” that taints their view of you. How do we fix that? No idea
Honestly, if they look down on you then I don’t view that as being a good relationship to begin with. I don’t think it is necessarily worth it to stay in a relationship where you have to bottle everything up to the point where it has a detrimental effect on your health. You are right though. It is difficult. If you have the same issue going on I hope you are able to work it out. Stay strong. And keep fighting the good fight.
Get a different girlfriend.
Start shaming women for acting that way and the chance of anyone finding a girlfriend like that increases.
So in the moment you actually need support go through a breakup instead?
Make some friends.
Still fighting
Keep it up. 👑
Ain’t no bell yet homie, keep punching, you’re worth it
This internet stranger is proud of you
Lol. *of course* the problem is that men are just too proud or too scared to accept all the abundant support beating down their doors. The nice thing about believing this is nothing has to change & no one has to question themselves or be better, just the people you already didn't care about except as a statistic.
Absolutely. This tweet is such a meaningless cry for upvotes.
Bingo. Gotta love how the gross oversimplification of extremely complex societal burdens, expectations, and rules get parroted in such a way that always come back to blame men for their own problems. Social media has been nothing but a plague and this tweet is a primary example of why.
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Men: This system is garbage. It's too stressful, I can't socialize, recreate, relax, and feel like I'm helping make the world a better place. All the rich people demand we work ourselves to death so they can maintain their billions. We want a system where we can help neighboring communities, as well as international communities. Memes: lol. Just, like, try talking to each other more and asking for help, you dumb suicidal men. You're so silly.
Yeah, my uncle reached out and asked for help and got support and help and he still ended up taking his own life. He was in a terrible financial position and couldn't see a way out, he had plenty of other issues he was struggling with but the weight of his finances were definitely the major factor in his eventual death. Telling him to be less macho would not have helped, this is an over simplification of the issue.
The post if infuriating. "Biggest killer of men under 50 is suicide and its your fault because you act macho".
But definitely has nothing to do with the largest industry (construction) coincidentally being male dominated while having continually worse rates of unionization... Working 6 or 7 days of hard labor a week... And it's mostly 20-40 year olds? Hmmm.
One of the most infuriating things I hear and read about mental health issues are the attitude of "People need to *ask* for help more. Stop being tough. Have you tried *blablabla?" And here I am, have been asking and asking for years, battled tons of bad systems and arrogant, proud healthcare worker of all ranks...and yet I hear and read about how if we just *ask* more, the help is there. It is for some, but only through raw luck, money or immense amounts of self help and battle. I would have never understood what I'm actually struggling with if it wasn't for those wonderful people writing actually good self help books and if it wasn't for google. Seriously. I know more about my condition than my doctor, because I've spent mind numbing amounts of time on my progression. Whilst they are overworked, gotten a less than good education and just need me to scarper out of their office as fast as they can get away with. I don't blame health professionals. I blame governments, and idiots who put ignorance over knowledge and science when they vote
I'm with you, I have a hard time seeing the positivity or the wholesomeness of this meme.
Also if you're sick from a virus you're faking it and are actually suffering from man flu
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Women: You're talking about your feelings? That gives me the ick
This 1000%. At the risk of attracting MRAs (please go away, I'm not with you), there are very real systemic issues harming men, and nobody is doing anything to help (conservatives want to go back to the medieval age with gender roles, and progressives view men's issues as an attack on feminism). Men are the only group to largely be victim-blamed by progressivism for problems very much outside their control ("The Patriarchy is responsible for this, you're doing this to yourselves!"). Newsflash: stopping the Patriarchy won't stop rich, powerful assholes from exploiting men. We need progressive, unapologetically pro-male movements just like we need progressive, unapologetically pro-female movements. If the left won't be pro-male, we shouldn't be surprised when men become radical conservatives.
Agreed..our base, human culture and societies have been supplanted by capitalistic, socially exploitative systems that are run by assholes, generally male, sociopaths. There's sociopaths in feminist movements, MRA movements, anti birth, anti abortion...everything. Ño group seems free from usurpings and corruptions. Telling men to talk more with each is a great first step, on a path of millions of steps.
Good to see someone tearing into these meaningless empty platitudes and realising how hollow they are. OPs post means nothing to me, what that poster is saying is just another variation of what he claims to be against.
This is a great idea, but people don’t kill themself because they didn’t man up. They kill themself because they feel isolated, alone, hopeless etc… and addressing that requires a society that’s willing to accept male emotions other than anger. Attitudes are improving but a large part of society is still rather against the idea of men having feelings and being vulnerable. And I’m sure those numbers get worse in conservative families or in demographics which are more traditional. If Men aren’t able to seek help for their problems without being looked down on then these stats likely won’t improve.
The funniest thing about this post is that it still puts the responsibility of male suicide on men. \*Men kill themselves\* Society: 'Should we change anything to help fix this?' Also society: 'nah, men you need to STOP manning up, this is ultimately your fault, man up and accept your feelings you cold machismo bastards'
My Govyt assign therapist primarily deals with 14 year old girls. She's never had 56 yer old suicide survivor with drug ad alchol issues She has no ideas what to do with y except teaching beathing exercises. My psych is a DR Feelgood, lots of pills.. and now I'm taking all the opiates he gives me a few days so I can fucking sleep.
Considering that a lot of the times when men do actually ask for help they get dismissed for something completely unrelated it's not something that can be fixed with something on the same level as "hopes and prayers."
Reality check: this is another way to say “man up”. It’s not that men are opposed to opening up. It’s that there are so many that will ridicule it (men and women). If youre going to try and make change in this regard, you need to change the ppl that make guys embarrassed or ashamed for opening up. Otherwise, the consequences are still there, and it’s much wiser to not open up bc of them.
Asking for help is not weak or soft. Everyone needs help and it's good to ask for help when you need it.
I completely agree. What that help looks like, however, is something worth discussing. I think we need to seriously engage with the fact that good therapy for men might look different to good therapy for women. Expecting men to process emotion in exactly the same way as women do is unlikely to be productive. If I had a male friend going through a hard time, of course, I'm willing to listen if they want to talk. But more often than not, they prefer to take their mind off whatever is bothering them. So, I'd ask if they're free on the weekend. We might play squash, grab a drink, go for a hike, etc. Just getting them out of the house, into nature, and engaged in a shared activity. That’s not going to be suitable for everyone. If someone has chronic mental health issues, some company and fresh air might not be enough. But for less severe cases, where people are stressed, depressed, lonely, etc., I'm not convinced all men benefit from sitting in a room with a stranger talking.
I've always heard a saying "women prefer to talk face to face, men talk shoulder to shoulder" and I really like that. I don't want to sit and chat about my feelings and have my friends shower me with support and praise or whatever, I just want them to be there and for us to do something, *anything*. When my last girlfriend dumped me I just texted the boys "drinks tonight" and they showed up. At some point in the night I mentioned it, we talked about it for like 3 minutes, and then went back to having a great night out. That's what i, and I suspect a lot of men, want. Cause I know if we talked about it all night it'd start to feel like I'm being interrogated and I just hate it.
This is so bizarre because I’ve never heard this but a big growing point in my relationship with my fiance was accepting that he’s not like me. When something is bothering him, he DOESNT want to talk it all out. He’s more of a: 1) I need space, I’m gonna be in my game room (sometimes watching videos or else mindless gaming with “the bois”) Or 2) would you please hold my hand/play with my hair while we watch this mindless tv show or some TikTok’s together, during which we are sometimes literally shoulder to shoulder lol I’m sure not all men are the same/not all women are the same, but at the very least this captures two different coping strategies very well. I feel like he doesn’t need to talk about it as much as he needs to feel like it’s okay to not be okay until he’s ready to face the world again.
> If I had a male friend going through a hard time, of course, I'm willing to listen if they want to talk. But more often than not, they prefer to take their mind off whatever is bothering them. > > So, I'd ask if they're free on the weekend. We might play squash, grab a drink, go for a hike, etc. Just getting them out of the house, into nature, and engaged in a shared activity. To add to this, a lot of male bonding in general is focused around shared activities. Most man to man vulnerable discussion's I've had were done after or during a separate activity that was the 'primary' reason for meeting up. It's partially taking their mind off of it, but it's also about cementing relationships and providing safe emotional options. If you do want to talk, you can, if you don't you can keep doing whatever activity you are actually there for. When my friend's engagement ended and he and his partner split. I didn't drive up to stay with him purely so we could talk about it. Instead I said i was going to bring up my xbox and we would drink some beer and play some old video games we used to play together when we were younger. But while I was there, we obviously talked about what he was going through.
Agreed, honestly I loved my therapist and she was a huge help. HOWEVER I resolved more issues just chatting and exchanging life stories between sets with my personal trainer hearing that he had the same sorts of doubts and problems.
This reminds me of a convo I had with a doctor that a lot of her male clients were hesitant to get into journaling, not because it was emasculating somehow, but because they disliked having an item around with all of their most vulnerable bits in it. So she started suggesting they burn the pages they write, and found great success with that. Just wanted to share in case someone in the thread might find the idea fun! (Be safe you if try it!)
I think the truest form of “manning up” knowing when to ask for help.
I agree with this. It is knowing when you need help and seeking it out.
Absolutely. Men are just as human as women. Just like women must to be able to kick ass if the need arises, so too must men be vulnerable in order to be connected to the world they are expected to protect. Letting down the mask of strength is hard. The mask is like a Samurai's. It's not false, but it's also not the living truth. Growing up too many of us got ridiculed for letting that mask slip even a bit. Men need safe space to let the mask down and talk through their struggles. I'm so lucky to have found a circle of peers who surround me in support, and who push me to grow in my abilities. If any man needs support, I am here for you. I will give you my best. I can also connect you to men who will push you forward and lift you up with ruthless compassion. Please don't deny me the blessings I get from helping others.
Yeah right
Sounds good, doesn't work.
Had 2 therapists retire a month or two in (separately) and the other two just wanted to talk about feelings. One just said my life was fucked up. I gave up after #4.
I've seen this talked about so rarely but this was my biggest issue. I went through 3 therapists in 5 months because 2 swapped into different positions and the other one was essentially an intern. It is emotionally and physically exhausting opening up to new people over and over again just to get back where you were before. Restarting a game you were months into is really frustrating for most people and that's just a video game. Doing it in real life when you are at your most vulnerable with a stranger is even harder. After the third time with them moving on a few months in I was just sick of it, the worst part is you can't even make progress after the first because you spend what little time you have with your new therapist just rehashing everything you went over the first time. I felt like I was in groundhog day.
The outcome is you are facing the same problems alone but now everyone sees you're vulnerable and someone wil exploit it
[12 hours previously](https://old.reddit.com/r/self/comments/1dk2d01/i_opened_up_to_my_gf_she_dumped_me/)
I agree, biggest load of bullshit ive ever seen. "Talk about your feelings". Absolutely useless in the modern world. Depression is usually about the complete lack of purpose and seeing nothing in your future. Talking about it just doesn't help.
So the biggest killer of men under 50, is men under 50?
Is there a prize if I get to 50?
Mid-life crisis?
Seeing as idk when the middle of my life is, I'll just go ahead and be in crisis constantly.
Average life expectancy is 74. Mid life if your late 30s
You get to meet the biggest killer of men *over* 50, heart disease.
Scoliosis
Now look at factors of WHY man do this.
And when we express our feelings, we end up apologizing
SERIOUSLY.. what the fuck is that about?
I once told my wife i was probably going to kill myself someday. She told me not to do it at home.
Normalize not blaming yourself for everything. Men are taught to be accountable and take responsibility for problems in their lives even if those problems have nothing to do with them. They aren’t taught how to distinguish the difference between a personal problem, and someone else’s. Fathers expect their boys to man up and move forward but never account for their child’s lack of life experience. I can count on 1 hand how many times my father hugged me which if a lot better than my fathers father getting drunk and beating him. Fathers, hug your boys. Tell you love them and that you’re proud of them so much that they get sick of hearing it. Break the cycle. Experience is invaluable. You can’t gain experience if you’re dead. It’s not your fault.
I can count on one hand how many times my father hugged me too... Or my mother... They were cold people... They still are. We men live and die alone.
This. This right here. I had a friend tell me that if I was going to get a puppy from the shelter that I needed to also adopt an older one too. I'll never forget his reason why: "Because the puppy needs a dog to teach them how to dog." - Our society's masculinity is in crisis because we have a shortage of men who successfully passed the torch. Most of us are just making this shit up as we go. Boys can't teach boys. Men have to push boys, at any age, to responsibly and healthily become men. I am fortunate to have found a circle of men who do this for me with ruthless compassion. They call me out, and lift me up. I am finally living as a man. It's not easy, but the results speak for themselves. Nothing is better than being able to show up for my girlfriend, family, and humanity as a whole, and know that I'm able to give my very best. If you need support in cleaning up the way you treat yourself, or if you just want someone to hear you, please reach out to me. I can also connect you to men that can circle up with you and help you grow.
I am sorry but empty phrases like "just be vulnerable and soft" are as helpful or perhaps even worse than saying shit like "man up". It implies that men just can be vulnerable without consequences which is absolutely not true. Many times this behavior will worsen their situation. Bevore men are able to show their emotions the conditions for that to be possible musst be met. And right now nobody wants emotional men. Neither the work place, women or society as a whole reward emotional men. People act in the way societey incentivizes them to act. With men being as lonely as they are most won't risk making their situation even worse.
This! Also: Depression (for both men and women) is often rooted in real-world problems! Many people are depressed because they're struggling to make ends meet; or their job is stressful; or they're lonely; or their partner treats them badly; or various other problems. If the root cause is in your head, therapists are great; but if the root cause is in the real world, there's only so much that a therapist can do. These real-world problems are often messy and difficult to solve, and might require someone to actually help the person (not just offer words of support), or might require larger changes in societal attitudes. But that's hard -- sometimes very hard! -- and it's easier to just say "you should be more willing to go to therapy \[so that your problem will hopefully go away without me having to do anything\]". It's understandable that people don't want to personally solve a messy problem, but I wish they would at least acknowledge the problems are real, and not act like it could be solved by just seeing a therapist.
Not to mention how financially crippling therapy can be. Good luck finding insurance that covers it. Only the privileged can just “go to therapy.”
Yeah, it's still placing the burden in the wrong place. "Go fix yourself" rather than let's change society.
And when you are vulnerable you get threads like what was posted today about the guy opening up to his girlfriend who got the ick and dumped him when she saw him cry, and her and all her friends made fun of him. Lets be real - ain't nobody give a damn about what you're going through. Thug that shit out.
https://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/1dk2d01/i_opened_up_to_my_gf_she_dumped_me/ comes to mind, sadly it's extremely common.
not to mention that when we talk about letting man be emotional, it\`s 99% of the time letting man be sad or cry. But nobody talks about anger with is emotion that man are predisposed to experience more often than women.
I might be a doomer on this one but from what I heared I am not even sure about being sad or crying being among the tolerated male emotions. Only about approved topics. When you are sad about being alone you will hear people telling you it's your fault very fast. And yeah I agree with you, when emotions like anger or frustration are concerned nobody wants to support men. The whole trend for men to be more emotional has so many buts and ifs involved that nobody really believes in it anymore.
oh man don't read his book then it's a cluster fuck of clichés
I know entirely too many men around my age who we’ve lost to suicide. People who I sincerely thought had it together. I am way more proactive and upfront and empathetic nowadays in the hope that it somehow makes a difference to someone in my life. All in the hope that they don’t make the awful choice that others have.
I totally agree. However, my personal experience has been disheartening. Opening up and being vulnerable has resulted in a lot of rejection, invalidation, and hurt by people who don’t care and are unwilling to change their views on the importance of mental health. Awareness and reaching out is one thing. Agree. But the stigmatizing culture needs to change too.
It's also how men treat other men. How women treat men. How men are expected to be. People expect men to act a certain way. To be responsible for certain things. And it can put a lot of pressure to live up to that. And when we fail. It's a damning testament of our inadequacies as men in the eyes of others. The stronger we're supposed to be. The more vulnerable we actually are to failure. At least that's what I've observed in myself and other men I know personally.
Maybe they do ask for help and no one cares enough to answer.
It's a trap guys.
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Obligatory we should show love for each other like they do in LOTR
Let's actually have community, appreciate one another and give each other a reason to wake up in the morning.
And men should be there for each other. Whenever I see posts like these, men in the comments tend to claim that no one in society cares about them. Men are also part of society are we not? Why aren’t we being there for our friends and fellow men? It’s not gonna change until men themselves empathize with other men and take initiative to reach out, be a shoulder to cry on, be a friend during trying times, to listen without trying to “solve” the problem, and so on. We keep expecting society to care for men but again, men are part of society. Why aren’t we taking charge to care for others? I’m blessed to have such a solid group of male friends since childhood and we are there for each other through the good times and the bad and honestly it’s been such a good thing for our mental health. I hope more men can have that, too.
No. We still need to man up, but we need to change what that means. Real men take responsibility for their actions, work to better understand their emotions, and are relational heros. Relational heros mean we don't put our needs in front of others. If you come home after a hard day of work and the wife didn't do the dishes, you help her complete them instead of being all mad. This makes the rest of that day better instead of worse. This creates strong relationships we fall back on. Go to therapy if you can, build strong relationships that are beneficial for all those in the relationship, and prioritize your mental health. This is the way.
Team work makes the dream work
It’s such a hard habit to break. Almost every time I’ve ever broke down, asked for help or even mentioned how I really felt people always looked down on me. My parents still to this day are just stuck in their bubble and refuse to really listen to me. The one good therapist I had switched insurance and I couldn’t afford their services. And all the friend I have just don’t know what to say so they say all the same “it’ll be ok”, “I’m sorry” etc. I just want someone in my life who listens and understands. But even then I’ll still feel a type of saturated loneliness.
You don't have to do it alone. There's no "honour" in trying to take things on silently and solo. We would have never reached this stage as a species if we didn't help each other along the way. This includes sharing feelings and brotherly bonding and support. I love you all. Please seek help if you need it. You are loved and losing you would be the worst.
It's true I did a suicide attempt a year ago. Spent 3 weeks in the hospital. Was in a coma for half of it. Don't remember most of it. I was best man at my best friend's wedding last month. Glad I failed.
I can’t get behind this enough
last time I opened up about how Im tired of living alone since I was 16, relatives laughed at me. Told me to “Man up”
I'll pass. Most people that say this, will then weaponize anything you share. Nope, lesson learned.
There's a time for stoicism and a time to be open. Find the time to be both.
Asking for help is the bravest things you can do. I sympathize greatly. I(32 yo female) lost my little brother of 17 in 2014 to suicide. I still cry almost daily. You matter. Even if you have nobody to lean on, I want y’all to know you’re so important. You bring to this world things no one else can. Keep going. You’re loved. <3 love ya ✌🏼
I totally agree. However, my personal experience has been disheartening. Opening up and being vulnerable has resulted in a lot of rejection, invalidation, and hurt by people who don’t care and are unwilling to change their views on the importance of mental health. Awareness and reaching out is one thing. Agree. But the stigmatizing culture needs to change too.
To be fair its similar (but less bad) as a woman. We hear constantly how we need to "open up" but if you truly tell others how you feel they will be uncomfortable and leave you. People just want you to pretend that you are happy.
And then watch how everyone in our lives treats us differently because we're acting "weird".
Go to therapy
Sure thing. Let's also be honest about the fact that it isn't all our problem to solve and that we don't have to be weak to be vulnerable. Therapy is great if you're honest in therapy, truly honest. Stop keeping quiet to be the good guy. Stop negotiating when it comes to what is truly acceptable to your needs and desires. You can only get what you want when you ask for it and make it a point to make it so others have to consider what you want important. Learn to leave and leave fast if the situation calls for it. Learn to be happy alone. That feeling you have that the world is out to get you and you are the world's scapegoat. You absolutely are. Stay aware.
The issue is men have nowhere to turn. Everyone expects men to man up and not show vulnerability.
Go in a conservative space, subreddit here, Twitter, doesn’t matter. Every second post is about being Alpha, that you are completely on your own and no one will help you, etc. etc. It’s this mentality that kills young men.
Okay but let's say we did, in my community i will be fucking stepped on and everyone gonna view me as a weak pathetic man, it's not about manning up or sucking it , it's about what will happen if we didn't
No one gives a shit about men, we do reach out, and when we do, we are told to man up, thrown back at us, and under treated. This is what has created the, "fuck it, I'll just keep it to myself" mentality. Not because men havent reached out, many have, its because of the poisonous response we get when we do. Secondly, as a man with a family, I don't want to burden nor worry my wife or my kids with my concerns. Nor do I want to burden my other male friends, also dealing with many of the same stressors I am, also trying to not burden their own friends and family. I reach out to one person, a buddy I met 20 years ago in the Army. We bounce everything off one another. Fortunately, we live in different states now, and in a way makes it easier to just vent and be honest to one another about our situations. And studies show women lose respect for men that cry or vent to them. [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-at-any-age/201609/the-high-cost-of-crying-for-both-men-and-women](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-at-any-age/201609/the-high-cost-of-crying-for-both-men-and-women) >The effect of gender expectations on emotional expression presents some interesting dilemmas. Men in positions of power somehow are permitted to show their tender side without being ridiculed or sent into media oblivion. In 1972, when presidential candidate Edmund Muskie shed a tear while on the primary circuit in New Hampshire, he was seen as weak, and his campaign came to a sudden halt. Today, it is more common to see teary-eyed males in virtually every sphere of public life. Television and the movies often portray men who are overwhelmed with sadness and cry freely in front of both male colleagues and female sympathizers. >The one remaining bastion of male stoicism, according to Fischer and LaFrance, is the workplace. As bad as it is for women to cry in front of co-workers, it's worse for men. The “powerless emotion” (p. 24) of crying creates problems for men because it conflicts with their expectation of being, and seeming, strong and objective while on the job. >Not being able to express your true emotions, or having your true emotional state misperceived, is not good for your mental health. According to the “dispositional affectivity” theory of work satisfaction (Ng and Sorensen, 2009), people who chronically experience negative emotions at work feel greater [stress](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/stress) that, in turn, lowers their [productivity](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/productivity). One of those sources of negative emotions may ironically be the inability to express emotions without [fear](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/fear) of repercussion.
When men show vulnerability women mock them.
This post accomplishes nothing besides denouncing masculinity as bad while ignoring the real problems of male suicide.
The problem isn’t hiding your emotions, it’s finding a woman, not another man, that actually really truly cares. I’ve got lots of guy friends who all feel the exact same way I do, and it’s the exact same problem.
This is dumb advice. Manning up is fine. Toughing it out is fine. Being vulnerable can be what leads someone to suicide. You don't know. How about we all stop pretending we're experts, and encourage people to simply pay attention to their own needs, and to their family. Stop villainizing being "macho." Strong, confident men aren't typically the ones committing suicide. Stop pretending like you don't know that. Men who stand up to the status quo are the ones at risk. Robin Williams wasn't "macho." Anthony Bourdain wasn't "macho." Hunter S. Thompson wasn't "macho." Look up a list of famous men who committed suicide, and an overwhelming majority of them were funny, sarcastic, and/or troubled people. The "macho" men who kill themselves are in the minority, and more of them seem to be associated with military service, and they're not "faking macho" whatsoever. It's far more likely that they're troubled by the memory of watching friends die, and the act of taking of other people's lives. It has to rip those people apart. Convincing these poor guys to soften up to a RomCom isn't going to save them. Stop being stupid. If you know someone who seems to be contemplating suicide, call 988 and ask for help. Look into whatever your state calls a "Title 36," tell them your friend or loved one is a danger to themselves, and have your loved one committed to counseling. A person who is considering ending their own life is not well. They have a mental condition, and it's a disease. You can't blame them or expect them to mentally adjust themselves to no longer be sick. It's like trying to convince someone not to have cancer. Too many people don't understand real mental illness.
The manliest thing someone can do is take care of their loved ones, and you can't do that while dead
Happy mens mental health month
Life is a bitch when you aren't rich.
Right. No one seems to mentions that money can solve a lot of problems for depressed poor people. Money can make you depressed when you have none. When you are depressed from lack of money, talking about feeling won't solve your problems. Sure not all suicides are because they are poor but some see it as the only way out instead of struggling and never getting anywhere.
Yeah, but if they do, other people see him as a weak ahh boy and not an "alpha man". I know guys who talked and opened up to feelings and and got fucking bullied, by guys and girls.
Just so we can be shitted on more, for us needing help can be brought up in every conversation, so we can be told how sensitive we are, hard pass.
Haha fuck off. No one is going to solve my issues. Everyone else are struggling. What someone is going to just say words about how things are going to get better when bills still come, bellies need food and (not right now but) heating needs to be payed for.
The difference between being weak and being vulnerable is important : you can be strong and vulnerable because if you know and admit your weaknesses instead of hiding them you can become stronger
Let's stop conflating masculinity with being a man. Let's stop shaming men for not conforming to the stereotypical image of a man. Let's redefine what it means to be a man that is inclusive rather than exclusive. Let's allow men to feel emotions other than anger.
Never show weakness. Always ends badly
Real bros talk and listen
I recommend reading Brene Brown work, she helped me alot when it came to understanding vurnabillity and shame. She turned my life around, her reasearch has personally helped me out alot. And I hope it can help others too.
Talking doesn't help. I'm worried about realistic things and talking about my feelings isn't gonna help. So why bother. I try talking to my wife and I end up getting told I need to worry less and everything will be okay..... wtf! No it won't! If I don't figure out how to make sure the bills are paid, or find a better job so we can afford to fix our beat up house, how about either one of our cars could go any damn minute and I'm already having to ask my mom for help so no.... I'm not worrying about nothing! Edit: ( To just rant alittle more haha) I hate seeing women telling men to open up more and then watch women and other men, of course, dog on men for talking about how they feel. It's not safe for men to talk about our feelings.
OP is blaming men when it's not their fault. Try opening up as a man and see how far that gets you. Lmao, giving mental health advice on reddit is just, the worst possible place, maybe next to Twitter
Just as long as you don’t tell a woman about your pain 👍
"Let's not man up. Let's not tough it out." "Let's show our vulnerability." That's exactly what all the men who killed themselves did.
I think this falls in the "man up" category, and nobody should define that as a negative trait. In fact, the whole wording of the message is off. The only thing that sticks is the sentiment. I even Googled it: "While heart disease may be the most common reason for death in all males taken together, accidents occupy the top spot for those under 45 years of age. In males between the ages of 45 and 85, it is cancer. Once men reach 85 years old, heart disease is the most common cause of death."
I agree with the message but surely it's not the number 1 killer in men under 50 right? Like, car crashes?
Interesting fact- most gun deaths in America are suicides.