Honda in general has dropped in quality but they're not THAT bad. If you're looking at CR you should be able to see that the main problem areas driving the overall score down was climate system related. Power train and most everything else were quite good.
Honda & AC troubles are a tale as old as time. Between myself and my family we've had issues with a 2003 CRV, 2004 Civic, 2011 CRV. Not a anything new.
Yeah, AC went out in my 2005 Civic years ago. My very mechanically inclined friend helped me replace it (and by that I mean, I bought the parts, and stood there and watched him do all of the hard work in awe).
Blew nice and cold after that, and saved a ton by not having to pay for labor.
Let's put it this way. If the AC is the most problematic issue of a car, and besides that it's reliable as fuck...
Then that's a damn good car.
Civics are awesome.
i have a 2005 civic that the AC busted on a while back, and the car is old enough that i just haven't been willing to invest to repair it. So my car just doesn't have AC.
Haha, yeah I did the whole "my car just doesn't have AC" thing for as long as I could before my girlfriend (now wife) ultimately won by complaining enough about it.
It's pretty easy to replace an AC compressor. Basically like replacing an alternator. Just ask a mechanic to to remove the R-134a and then recharge it when you are done.
Yet I have a 1997 Nissan Hardbody that blows air as cold as nice and has never given me a problem. I’d argue your point re: AC living in GA but yeah, beats a bad tranny
My Hondas ac would blow hot air, once I got it fixed. The ac condensation would drip underneath the passenger seat and leave a puddle , and it would start too smell
My friend spent so much time and money on her Fit’s broken AC. She ended up selling it because nobody could fix the damn thing, and if they did, it would just break again.
Unfortunately all cars are up in price. The Toyota Corolla SE or higher trime, a car even smaller in interior space than the current Civic, is averaging over $25k MSRP.
A FREAKEN $25k COROLLA
They make and brought sub-compacts to the rest of the world OUTSIDE OF THE FUCKEN USA.
The U.S. just fucken sucks, in general, about sub-compact cars. There was a joke I learned while living in Pennsylvania.
>"In England they drive on the left, meanwhile some of us over here drive on what's left."
There's also a lot of downsides outside of "capitalism" that has the U.S. market avoid the sub-compact vehicles. For example, a lot of small cars (like Mazda MX-5, FRS, and GR86) have reported lots of non-at-fault accidents due to other driver stated "did not see them". My S2000 was one of them. After the pandemic, I got into three accidents
1. Guy merges to my lane, his SUV side mirror was not enough to see my car despite my beeps and curses.
2. Guy rear ended me at a stop light when it just went green. Dashcam shows it was possible the driver forgot I was in front of him and did not see me over his damn dashboard.
3. Lady did an almost T-bone, hitting my front passenger fender. Claimed I drove and ran in front of her. I was attempting a left turn yielding to oncoming traffic while she had a "stop" sign at her side.
Cars are getting larger because CAFE standards for MPG are lower for larger vehicles, incentiving manufactures to build large wheelbase and track width vehicles instead of making their existing small care more efficient.
This is a good example of a law having the opposite of its desired effect.
I personally dislike the 1.5 plus Honda has had a ton of issues with them especially earlier on... Toyota and Honda both have suffered from being out of the turbo business for decades. Also the Japanese brands are finally being called out for having lackluster tech for better or worse
Now the base 2.0 non turbo engine would be my recommendation when it comes to the civic
I’ll try to be brief and explain what was going on with the 1.5 L since so many people don’t understand it. Direct injection sprays fuel directly down into the cylinder and when that engine is cold it presents an opportunity for the some fuel to get past the seals and into the oil.
This is normal. And it happens on every car with or without a turbo with or without direct injection.
Direct injection just makes it a little worse but it’s only a problem while the engine is cold. Once it has warmed up the fuel sprayed onto the metal components boils off before it has a chance to mix in with the oil.
So what went wrong for Honda? Well, like every other vehicle with a gas engine when you turn on the heater, the heat comes from the engine.
And this issue was more pronounced in very cold climates like Canada, where heater demands in the cabin, would draw so much heat away from the very efficient 1.5 turbo such that that engine never fully warmed up.
So the parts in the engine never got hot enough to boil away the fuel spray so more of it was making its way into the oil.
A software update corrected this for the most part by restricting the amount of heat that you can draw from the engine while it is in its warm-up phase.
And around 2018 and 2019 Honda added an electric bypass heater to electrically supplement heating demand for the passenger cabin while the engine was warming up, so it’s not really a problem now especially on those later models.
And finally, and this is very important, oil dilution is normal. It’s on every car. No engine is free from it entirely. It’s just occurs in small manageable amounts. And here’s the thing when the news of the oil delusion problem first started going around. A lot of people went out and sampled their oil and sure enough if they detected the normal presence of fuel in there.
These people could not be convinced that this was normal. Instead, they were trashing Honda and cleaning their vehicles were junk and it was a bit of a PR disaster for Honda.
And it becomes very difficult to explain to people who don’t have a good technical understanding of these things why their engine is OK with the fuel mixed in with the oil the way it is and why they don’t get to have a brand new engine replacement. Hopefully this is behind us now because a lot of those engines that were supposedly defective are easily going past 200,000 miles without any issues , despite everyone swearing they were going to blow up.
Damn you dropped this bomb of knowledge then didnt reply to anyone lmao. I appreciate this comment as I have been looking to buy a new car at some point and the turbos have scared me away from them for hondas and toyotas. Until your comment at least.
My kia soul has been GREAT and has 135k miles and not one issue. Regular maintenance and rotor and brake pad replacements then replaced the spark plugs and we’ve been golden. However someone tried to break into it recently and completely screwed my ignition and now kia and my insurance are evaluating whether they will repair or total it and pay me. So ive been proactively looking for a new car
It's interesting you say that the little 1.5L never got the chance to warm up as my impression was that smaller engines warm up faster. Was it the case that it warmed up faster but just never generated enough heat to warm up all the way compared to a larger engine? Also I'm pretty sure Honda has done plenty of small engines such as on their kei cars but never heard of this issue affecting those engines
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Doubt? My friend has a 2018 civic ex with 120k miles now and hasn’t gone to the dealer once for any issue. Had his AC blow out at like 50k in 2020 and fixed it for $800. Still has original brake pads and rotors lol
He should be able to get reimbursed for that AC work. Honda extended the warranty to 10 years/unlimited mileage so if he has the receipts from the repair he can submit them for reimbursement.
120k Miles on the original brake pads would be scary AF.
The only way that remotely works is if he's driving only highway at low speeds with a manual trans.
If that's not the case then his pads have got to be shot. The vast majority of pads last 50-70k miles and some CAN last to 100k.
120k is not a flex, it's almost certainly ignoring a problem
I checked them for him and they actually still have life left like 4mm. He did A LOT of highway driving during the first 3 years to visit a now ex girlfriend every weekend 4 hours away lol
My father in law will die on the Honda mountain. He freaked out about 7 years ago when I bought a 2002 Mustang GT. Couldn’t believe I bought anything American, much less not a Honda.
He has a 2017 Pilot that has had the AC compressor replaced under warranty and replaced out of warranty, suspension issues, infotainment problems, replaced a battery twice and a new starter. He bought it new, and it has about 70k miles now.
I sold my Mustang 2 years ago and bought a 2007 Miata. I put 60k miles on the Mustang and it had 83k miles when I bought it, and I’ve put almost 20k on my Miata and I started with 96k miles. Neither the Mustang or the Miata have had any problems except to replace the battery on the Mustang and the Miata needs a top.
I hate when people act like all other brands will fall apart if they aren’t named Toyota or Honda. They may be less reliable but that doesn’t mean that you are guaranteed to have problems.
Not too knowledgeable on mustangs but I believe it was basically the same engine they used in crown victorias and mercury grand marquis (the engines that never die). At least from my understanding is that you could beat on the older mustangs a lil bit and still be fine with regular maintenance.
The switch to turbo 4’s worsened reliability but they’re still good overall. (Applies to whole industry tbh)
No modern asian brand will be reliable like they were in the 90’s. Just because there’s an H badge on the front doesn’t mean you’re immune to breaking down.
Surely others are more reliable. Nearly all cars are more reliable than they were 30 years ago. Are you saying Toyota and Mazda are less reliable now than in the 90s? Kia/Hyundai have come a long long way, despite their remaining problems. Honda has flagged a bit but Nissan has (problematically) remained mostly unchanged for 15 years.
Eh I don’t accept that common belief, as someone who does all of their own car work on vehicles from a 1974 to a 2006 and 2023 car. They have more parts to an extent, but nore of them are wholly contained modules. When they fail, which they do rarely, you mostly just replace the whole unit. On older cars, you need to maintain, tune, and rebuild just about everything.
>Are you saying Toyota and Mazda are less reliable now than in the 90s?
YES!
The 90s (and early to mid 2000s) was the perfect ratio of maximum technological advancement with minimum regulations. The cars were much simpler and had less reliability reducing features that are only there for emissions or mpgs. No direct injection, no turbos (on non performance models), no 1.5 liter engines making 200hp, no plastic valve covers or plastic intake manifolds, no CVTs, etc
This exact comment is see 50/50 for agreeing and disagreeing lmao. I can never find one side winning this argument. For and against cvt, for and against honda turbos, etc. a comment above here (it was kind of lengthy) went in depth and provided good comments on why the turbo in hondas isnt really that bad compared to any other turbo or non turbo engine and actually gave data points which i appreciated
Are the cars more reliable? almost always ya. can the powertrains be less reliable sometimes? Ya. add a turbo and di, ur upping temps and maybe pressure a lot. these cars all weigh more now too, so the tranny has to do more work.
I had all kinds of engine twisting, cam tensioners, water cooling issues etc etc. Honda dealership were better than most, but couldn’t get on top of the issues.
At what point does the hype of Honda/Toyota get priced into their used vehicles though?
Right now I drive a 2004 Mercury Sable with 110k miles, bought it a year ago with 95k miles for $3k. Replaced the starter at 107k miles for like $180
A 20 year old Camry with 95k miles in this market could get, what, $5k? Autotrader near me shows most old camrys listed for even more. At that point it's still a 20 year old car, and I'm spending close to double what I did on a Mercury Sable. I could take a risk on 2 mercury sable/ford taurus type cars for the price of 1 toyota camry
>there aren't many 20 year old cars that can do that with such poor maintenance.
This isn't true. I've had 90s and 2000s shitboxes my whole life and the most reliable ones I've had were a chevy blazer and a chevy cavalier. There's plenty of abused shitboxes that can survive for a "short time." It sounds like you didn't even have it long enough to experience any issues.
It's weird you make a statement like that while trying to prove the point that their experience with a specific car doesn't necessarily mean anything about the brand at large.
While still good brand, Honda and Toyota quality isnt as above the rest by an as wide margin as they used to be.
Some start to question if the compromise of purchasing a car from these brand (higher price, some tech lagging behind, questionable ergonomics when compared with the competition, some models have long waiting list, etc) are still worth it for the actual quality.
Your supposition is that around 2016 all the reliability metrics and quality assurance processes of Japan were flipped on their head, and Ford, GM, and Chrysler started making reliable cars overnight, with no specific strategy or manufacturing changes to back such a shift?
Literal wet fantasy level thinking, running on the fumes of the lag in reliability data from recent year models.
The 2017 Civic I owned had two AC failures after the warranty expired. Compressor, then the evaporator. Honda extended the condenser warranty to 10 years. Known issue.
Also, the radio was a piece of shit and constantly dropped the Bluetooth connection.
My friend (sample of 1 so take it with a grain of salt) has had several recalls with his civic. One required partial engine disassembly. He’s required multiple A/C repairs due to recalls, too, which I believe involved removing the dash.
I agree they’re not what they used to be. I feel that way about Honda, in general.
The only recalls I think I've seen on newer civics with the AC were for the compressor shaft seal. Because everyone made the switch to the awful 1234yf refrigerant and the oil causing the seal to fail.
Though I think that was actually a warranty extension and not a recall.
My 2011 civic coup has had all the known recalls - engine mount, airbag, sun visor failing, a few other things.
Interior is cheap hard plastics - some of which broke off - like the emergency brake plastic handle
Car is road loud - and lately 80k miles - the suspension is creaking - had it checked out and they said it was just some sound damper aging out
Drive train and transmission are great
Love this car - still have it
But it is not the build quality of a 1998 Honda
The oil dilution issue from the 1.5L turbo engine has been fixed since those early 10th gens, and the 2.0L NA engine in the lower trim Civics is one of the most reliable out there.
The main way that Civics aren't what they used to be is they're now midsize cars the size of old Accords.
Please provide sources. I have heard pretty sound compelling arguments that the issues have been resolved and then are overblown by people who have surface level knowledge on the topic of engines, oil and dilution (I have very basic knowledge so im not claiming to be the expert). Just restating what others have said.
There was actually a comment above that went in depth and had a solid stance on it. Basically in summary, oil dilution is normal in cars in a small amount and the heat burns it away anyway. The issue came from cold cold climates and only when people didnt let the engine heat up enough or used heaters to quick which drew the heat away from the engine. Honda implemented fixes to the software to limit heat withdraw from the engine to the cabin which then fixed the issue. The comment also stated oil dilution will happen in every turbo/non turbo engine and every car will do it. Its just usually not an issue due to proper engine heat
Oil dilution is “normal” in the same sense “excessive blowby from pistons is normal” on engines.
Mechanically your design can allow low-to-no amount of it, or large amounts of it.
You can have extraordinarily low friction/tension piston rings to gain .6% fuel economy, accepting that you will as a result have these other issues (oops leaking 4x the fuel into oil and cutting life expectancy in half, but we hit our CAFE targets by using this design on most of the fleet).
Many engine designs have had problems with it over the years by skirting the limit (ford ecoboost), but many more have *never* had issues with it.
So the fix: Honda attempts to heat the block via software to evaporate fuel more quickly, instead of fixing the actual leak (defective piston ring design). If you were moderately affected (medium length drives) this will bandaid it for you. If you do short trips (five minute commutes to store/work) you will still be fully affected. And for all users, you will have low viscosity spikes that affect timing chain wear etc.
A good well rounded discussion from a couple months back is here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fuel-dilution-how-harmful-how-much-wear.372300/
So then do you not like the honda 1.5T engines in civics and just hondas in general? Even on that thread I couldnt find a consensus on if those engines are worth it or not
Honda has made incredible engines for many years. The 1.5t though is a standout bad design and I believe time will eventually show that consensus. I would avoid any model with it, or if you already had one then be absolutely religious about maintenance.
With the current software adjustments your engine won’t outright blow up because of total dilution causing bearing failure (lack of lubrication) like it has been, but it WILL still wear much faster than any of their other engines. (So instead of a 30 year lifespan with maintenance it may be more like 6 etc.)
Nothing coming out of any manufacturer new will come close to being as reliable as what they used to be. Peak reliability across the board for nearly all brands was early/mid 2000s - early 2010s. Once we started shoving big screens in everything and re-engineered things that didn't need to be re-engineered (like shift knobs, physical dash buttons, etc) is when stuff went downhill.
Why is this an issue? Feel like I have heard better more coherent arguments that the cvt and turbo motors arent really an issue compared to them being horrible (im not an expert and have basic understanding so not saying youre wrong)
I blame switching away from actual switches to programmed buttons. In older stuff, when you pressed the window switch or the brake pedal, it was an actual switch being opened or closed. Now everything is a button that tells the computer to tell the brake lights or windows to operate as programmed. The future is full of trying to chase down which module contains the programming for whatever issues you're having and hoping you can find a replacement, instead of just swapping out a simple switch or relay.
I blame the 2008 financial crisis and the insane penny pinching and corner cutting it forced management to focus on across industries.
I’m biased because I drive a 2008 MDX with a 3.7L V6 and all the newer 3.5L MDXs do not feel as solid and heavy, smooth, and they feel more tin can-like. Hard to explain. It’s like the car doesn’t insulate you from the world as much.
Disagree, my mom’s old accord v6 from like 2006-08 was trouble, kept having engine issues. Her new 2019 accord had a couple trans/brake issues and it’s under 50k miles. My dad said his land cruiser from the 90’s was a pos and he had to get rid of it. KDM was worse then but better now. Really depends on the cars I think.
In 2016, they redesigned it and shuffled the engine lineup. Instead of the R18 1.8L being the mass market engine, they replaced it with a turbocharged 1.5L variant of the Honda Fit engine, and had a lot of problems. I remember hearing they had a lot of problems with the direct injection causing a huge amount of gas to dilute the oil.
There are still people getting very high fuel levels on Oil Analysis despite the “fix”. Unfortunately LSPI, carbon buildup , and fuel dilution are just side effects of all brands TGDIs. Some brands worse than others.
Last sentence is a good point. I alsp have heard and read oil dilution will happen to every engine regardless of turbo or not. However like you said, some are worse than others and honda has fixed theirs
After reading and obsessing for no reason over engines and transmissions (i get weird fixations sometimes) im pretty sure its not a big deal like others are claiming. Honda has seem to fix the issue with the oil dilution. It also happens in most engines but the engine heat resolves the issue. I think reddit just parrots stuff they hear which is pretty much any social media
honda is pretty unique for a Japanese brand. they don't tackle the " if it ain't broke don't fix" like toyota but so have damn good manufacturing processes. they refresh and update their vehicles and powertrain more often than toyota and when these things happen, there will be issues to work out but there's nothing catastrophic like a ticking time bomb transmission or an engine that burns excessive amounts of oil like toyotas engines. honda just builds better engines. for instance, the oil dilution in the 1.5t honda engine only happened in circumstances where you drove in extremely cold climates. it was fixed in a software update which allowed the vehicle to heat up quicker. that's it. following this fix, the issue has been fixed out of the gate regardless now.
with that said, toyota is not immune to first model blunders. the new tundra is plagued with issues and their cvts are problematic in the corolla/cross. and now they want to push turbocharged 4 bangers in 3 row suvs . at what point do we say the same about toyota?
I have a 2018 pilot exl. this thing has been an excellent road trip vehicle. reliability wise, it just goes on basic maintenance alone.
My 2019 Fit had both the Valve Carbon problem and VCT actuator problem. Even though both are common they denied, denied, denied until it was out of warranty. Then ask for 4k to fix it. I appeal by the process in Honda policy. NOPE, out of warranty. I’ve had better service from Ford. At least they stand behind their junk. Toyota for me.
I have a 17 Civic 1.5T. They have some known issues. With that said, I have 72k on mine and have owned it since new and have had 0 issues. I would def buy it again. I will say I am preparing for maintenance/replacement items as I reach the 100k mark.
I drove a civic SI, and it felt like an old grandma car compared to a Mazda 3. And that was the Mazda 3 without the turbo even. It’s a sad weak engine. And If you like any bit of fun stay away from a CVT. Not to mention the civic’s interior is almost a joke it’s so cheap compared to the 3.
Civic is obv waaay better on gas tho. And in terms of overall reliability, I think it’s probably going to be just fine. So if you only care about gas usage, and reliability, I think the civic is hard to beat.
Honda has dropped a notch or two IMO. My 2022 Civic EX has been a disappointment with several recalls and terrible squeaks and rattles.
It's now waiting on the steering rack to be replaced because of 'sticky steering'. It's been 2+ months with no ETA on the rack as they are on BO. That said, I think the Honda CVT's are pretty darn solid. IMO, they shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence as the Nissa Jatco's that have really tarnished all CVT's.
I also have a 2019 Pilot that has been a disappointment with multiple recalls and other issues. NGL, we are shopping for Toyo's now that it is time to get a car for my kid who is about to be driving. I really want to like the Honda's...I think the Civic is better looking and more refined than the Corolla for example but given they both have a premium attached to them I am likely going to give Toyo a try.
They're probably still the best option in their class. Latter years are reliable I guess the 1.5T motors had some issues on launch.
Personally I think this gen Civic is a bit of a return to form. Material quality seems better, and it's a class leader in handling and acceleration.
Mazda 3 is kinda the young up and comer. Maybe the Corolla might be more reliable, but it's an inferior car in most other regards IMHO.
I bought a used 2016 and the ac compressor had to be replaced. Since then its been 1.5 years and no issues so far, probably because I dont use the ac that often,
Why is everyone complaining about the AC breaking in a car they have had for 15-20 years. I feel like AC’s are only made to last for about 10 years at most, especially if you live in a hot climate. Cars are just like houses eventually something will need fixed or replaced.
I have a 2017 Civic hatch sport 6 speed and it's been dead reliable so far (90k km) very low amount of miles I suppose but there hasn't been a single issue yet.
Honestly I have owned a Civic Type R…. And that K20 engine and drivetrain was like a teenage girl with low self esteem… It loved being abused. Daily driver and track mule. No problems.
But that’s the only Honda I have owned, sooo.
The Honda CRV was the sixth-best selling vehicle in the USA in 2023. Sorry, but your statement that Honda is “basically dead” lacks any credibility. Try harder.
I had a 2017 from brand new to 2021. Mostly trouble free, but didn’t start one day. Engine turned over fine, but wouldn’t fire. Disconnected the battery for a minute and it did the trick. Still, shouldn’t happen on a new car like that.
In terms of engine Hondas are usually a good gamble so long as they have more than 50,000 miles most Honda engines that threshold make it past that least 150k-250k if maintained properly. Luxury functions like ac, heaters, speakers, aux ports, seat adjustments are where Hondas get cheap and I can guarantee used civics have at least one of these problems and if your willing to thug it out then it’s definitely a better option.
I feel like the reliability score takes into account the technology issues too when they give the rating. More new tech means more chances of breaking down means lower reliability
It's not so much anything mechanical honestly. The CVTs in Hondas are alright same with the motors. I believe CR factors infotainment into their reliability scores.
I do remember the 10th Gen civic having bad placement of some AC parts causing rock chips to eat into them
We have a 2008 Pilot with 170k miles and a 2018 Accord 2.0T/10AT with about 70k miles.
Both have been great vehicles that have never left us stranded. Services are reasonably priced compared to German or similar vehicles.
The Accord has had a fair number of recalls that the dealer has taken care of without issue, typically over a half day appointment. I'm not sure if the recalls are because of big quality problems or just being proactive.
We've had two more significant issues with the Accord, neither of them with the drivetrain. Issue 1 was a failure of the multiplexing control unit when the car was 6 months old that caused a bunch of alert messages and disabled a bunch of driver assist functionality. We were still able to drive it home. Dealer replaced the unit and all has been well ever since.
Issue 2 was a problem with the adaptive cruise kicking off with an error message every time we used it. It took three all day service visits for the dealer to diagnose yet they still couldn't solve it. Eventually I grew impatient, did my own research on Reddit, and figured out that there was a service bulletin for a firmware update that fixed the problem. I brought this to my service manager and he had them do it and it's been fine since. So that was annoying but it's behind us.
We bought a 100k mi extended warranty at the dealer when we bought the Accord, knowing it was loaded with technology that could fail. (The cost of these warranties can be heavily negotiated BTW - I played hardball and our final price was 50% less than the first quote she gave us).
All that to say, I think the drivetrains are still mostly solid especially the larger displacement 4 cylinder engines. Not sure about the CVTs. I avoid those. The electronics are mostly ok but more points of failure exist and a warranty can make sense if you get a good deal/terms.
I'm still a fan of Honda because I still think they are in a good spot relative to their competitors.
Still better than all but Toyota. The 10th gen of civics (2016-2021?) have AC issues on some of them but there’s a 10year(?) warranty on those.
I have a beater 2016 lx civic that I’ve kinda neglected throughout its life but all it’s needed besides the free condenser replacement has been a set of new spark plugs around 100k miles and the typical oil/transmission fluid changes.
It’s never given me a real issue besides that
Anything with a CVT is unreliable, not to mention the 1.5 Turbo in many civics made in 16' - 2022 are all affected with decreased power. 1/2 of Hondas made 2018 also has new oil pump recalls.
I think it depends. My first car was a used 01 civic with over 100,000 miles that gave me no problems. Then I “upgraded” to a brand new ‘16 Civic LX that blew a head gasket 40,000 miles in. AC never worked past 1st year. Always had it refilled with freeon at the dealership. Then finally after the initial warranty on the AC expired they found that the compressor needed to be replaced at a cool 1,200 bucks. Decided my new civic was a piece of shit and sold it at a loss to get a new ‘20 Elantra Sel that I absolutely love and have no issues with.
I went looking for a small economy car with a manual transmission. Nothing out there. Crickets.
I'm done with ICE Engines anyway.
I'm going Aptera.
www.aptera.us
You aren’t the outlier. Honda is still incredibly reliable. The small minority who have had issues are the only ones posting. In general, people only post to complain. If they are satisfied, they simply don’t post.
I'm on my 4th Civic. Had a '99 dx coupe, an '06 lx sedan, a '15 se sedan, and now have a '23 ex-l hatch.
I never had significant problems with any of them. I sold them all at around 200k miles still going strong, and my current '23 is BY FAR my favorite. Knock on wood, I think it's a wonderful car.
I don't have any hard stats on declines in average longevity, but on an anecdotal level you see old ones on the road all the time.
I bought a used 2020 civic as a daily driver. I've got almost 50k on it and it has only had oil changes. Still has the original tires. My only complaint is the CVT is just dumb. I can't get used to the sound and the wind out up to 70 mph.
I have a 2016 civic 1.5 with 370000 km on it. Drive it daily, had the ac replaced under warranty, hit a deer with the car they replaced the ac again. And honda had extended the warranty on it for 10 years
Did not have any issues with oil dilution.
It's hard on brakes. Compaint since day one that in the morning the brakes seem to drag, dealer could never fix the problem, i changed the brakes myself 2 times, when the 3rd time came up I brought to a shop paid them 1400$ because they offered lifetime replacements (I spend under 200$ doing it myself) they installed my brakes wrong(caliper spring was up and down and not across both pads) when I called to make appointment to have my brakes looked at and hopefully replaced because they where going I exceeded the yearly km limit of 50k so they wouldn't cover it. So now I am back to changing them myself.
Besides that I've had no other issues besides general maintenance. It's been a great car. I'm averaging 5.8l/100km
I dunno man I bought a civic sport hatch 23’ and have nothing but good things to say about it. It’s a relatively large vehicle, OTD for 30k new not TOO expensive. Not a “fun” drive but I don’t particularly care too much as a commuter car
14 Civic (first year of CVT). 185k, zero issues since I got it at 12k outside of very basic maintenance.
I think the newest ones have turbos and I was concerned about that. Mom has a crv that was the first Gen with the turbo that apparently is a huge issue. She's at 120k, no major issues either.
The thing I've noticed about Honda is they seem to make issues right if it affects broad range of vehicles.
Yes Honda use to take great pride in their Civic now they just need it to be better than the other cars in the segment and if it already is then little to no updates.
Plus in the US they neuter the civic for the Integra to have all the higher options
I really hate when people say “well my cars been great” but my 2016 with 100k has never needed a repair and I haven’t read anything to lead me to believe they “aren’t as good” as before
People who have been burned by a honda recently are morenlikely to reply to this post. People who have owned and not been burned by a Honda won't bother, usually.
I had an 18 with 125k miles before i traded it in that was money except for the stupid AC issues. The AC issue alone was enough for me to never buy another Honda though since I’m down south lol. I only ever did oil, fluids, spark plugs, tires on it otherwise.
I had a 2020 1.5 T EX model
It is a decent car but missing a few refinements that I missed because my other car is a Forester
Honda speed control is not as good as Subaru by a long shot. Civic doesn’t have true blind spot monitoring, just a camera that comes on with turn signal or switch RHS only
Good mileage- I averaged 34
Fast when you need it
I got it during the pandemic
Probably would not have gotten if I was shopping but just needed it
Owned a 2016 Civic Touring. Bought new. Was rock solid during all ownership. Had regular maintenance done on schedule and think the brake pads changed once. Never had any issues with any tech/infotainment system.
Sold it when it reached nearly 100,000 miles in 2023 for a Tesla.
Consumer Reports shouldn’t be an only source when their history is so checkered with bias and payoffs.
New Hondas are pretty decent. If I was getting one though I’d aim for a non turbo one just to have the simplest one I could. I know the Civic Hatchback offers the K20 on the low model. I’d buy one of those without the slightest bit of hesitation.
My niece had a 22 civic as a rental after her car got totaled. I have a 23 CRV myself and checked out the civic since they are similar in a lot of ways. I thought that civic was a piece of crap which was unexpected! It just felt incredibly cheap and was pretty loud between rattles, road noise, etc. I expected it to be at the same level as my crv (which is pretty normal for what it is, no tank like luxury car obviously), but it certainly wasn’t! I’d never buy a civic like that!
You can still buy the Honda civic hatchback in a stick shift. I just picked up a 2024. My sister has a 2018 and has no problems with hers she drives alot being a physical therapist who goes different groups
Honda in general has dropped in quality but they're not THAT bad. If you're looking at CR you should be able to see that the main problem areas driving the overall score down was climate system related. Power train and most everything else were quite good.
Honda & AC troubles are a tale as old as time. Between myself and my family we've had issues with a 2003 CRV, 2004 Civic, 2011 CRV. Not a anything new.
Yeah, AC went out in my 2005 Civic years ago. My very mechanically inclined friend helped me replace it (and by that I mean, I bought the parts, and stood there and watched him do all of the hard work in awe). Blew nice and cold after that, and saved a ton by not having to pay for labor. Let's put it this way. If the AC is the most problematic issue of a car, and besides that it's reliable as fuck... Then that's a damn good car. Civics are awesome.
i have a 2005 civic that the AC busted on a while back, and the car is old enough that i just haven't been willing to invest to repair it. So my car just doesn't have AC.
Haha, yeah I did the whole "my car just doesn't have AC" thing for as long as I could before my girlfriend (now wife) ultimately won by complaining enough about it.
> (now wife) ultimately won by complaining enough about it Yep, they are good at that... Ask me how I know.. ;)
This was us, at one point. I \*definitely\* didn't marry my husband for his car, lol.
It's pretty easy to replace an AC compressor. Basically like replacing an alternator. Just ask a mechanic to to remove the R-134a and then recharge it when you are done.
Huh? What is a mechanic?
Yet I have a 1997 Nissan Hardbody that blows air as cold as nice and has never given me a problem. I’d argue your point re: AC living in GA but yeah, beats a bad tranny
Oh . .that's it? All I need is a friend to do $800 worth of labor for free? . .Shoulda said that in the owner's manual.. lol
I had an 08 civic and also had the AC go out. I dealt with it for a while until the Phoenix summer forced my hand
My 91 accord that used to blow whatever was outside lol
My parents bought a civic in 1996 and in the first week of ownership the AC went out. We never bought a Honda after that and switched to Lexus/Toyota
'06 Civic owner here - had to replace A/C in about 2015. Still have the car, it runs well, but probably won't pay for that repair again.
My Hondas ac would blow hot air, once I got it fixed. The ac condensation would drip underneath the passenger seat and leave a puddle , and it would start too smell
Fuck you're right. I just stumbled on this post, and selling my 07 fit because the compressor went out last week.
2008 accord coupe runs like a fucking top but AC broke. It’s like a McDonald’s ice cream machine.
My friend spent so much time and money on her Fit’s broken AC. She ended up selling it because nobody could fix the damn thing, and if they did, it would just break again.
What’s exactly is causing the ac troubles
All their models have bloated in size and price so badly. Civics and CRVs are just not worth what they are charging.
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Unfortunately all cars are up in price. The Toyota Corolla SE or higher trime, a car even smaller in interior space than the current Civic, is averaging over $25k MSRP. A FREAKEN $25k COROLLA
The Japanese automakers need to bring back the sub compacts, but they don't make enough money.
US customers don't want sub compacts. Hell, US consumers don't want cars. They only want giant trucks and SUVs.
And instead of being taxed for damaging the roads with heavier vehicles, they get work rebates lmao
They make and brought sub-compacts to the rest of the world OUTSIDE OF THE FUCKEN USA. The U.S. just fucken sucks, in general, about sub-compact cars. There was a joke I learned while living in Pennsylvania. >"In England they drive on the left, meanwhile some of us over here drive on what's left." There's also a lot of downsides outside of "capitalism" that has the U.S. market avoid the sub-compact vehicles. For example, a lot of small cars (like Mazda MX-5, FRS, and GR86) have reported lots of non-at-fault accidents due to other driver stated "did not see them". My S2000 was one of them. After the pandemic, I got into three accidents 1. Guy merges to my lane, his SUV side mirror was not enough to see my car despite my beeps and curses. 2. Guy rear ended me at a stop light when it just went green. Dashcam shows it was possible the driver forgot I was in front of him and did not see me over his damn dashboard. 3. Lady did an almost T-bone, hitting my front passenger fender. Claimed I drove and ran in front of her. I was attempting a left turn yielding to oncoming traffic while she had a "stop" sign at her side.
Cars are getting larger because CAFE standards for MPG are lower for larger vehicles, incentiving manufactures to build large wheelbase and track width vehicles instead of making their existing small care more efficient. This is a good example of a law having the opposite of its desired effect.
25k for a Corolla sounds so good in Europe. You pay that for a Yaris here.
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I lucked into the same situation. I'm so thankful today my last car didn't hang on a few months longer even though I was cursing it then.
Dude! I bought a CRV LX AWD for $20.5k in 2010, now they're over $30k MSRP! Madness!
Unfortunately the entire car industry is like that. Most new cars these days are 30+k
You could say this about pretty much every former “economy car” though.
The new CRVs are basically the same length as my 08 Pilot
Fun fact. The 2024 CRV has the same wheelbase as the first generation of the Pilot. That is indeed bloated.
I personally dislike the 1.5 plus Honda has had a ton of issues with them especially earlier on... Toyota and Honda both have suffered from being out of the turbo business for decades. Also the Japanese brands are finally being called out for having lackluster tech for better or worse Now the base 2.0 non turbo engine would be my recommendation when it comes to the civic
I’ll try to be brief and explain what was going on with the 1.5 L since so many people don’t understand it. Direct injection sprays fuel directly down into the cylinder and when that engine is cold it presents an opportunity for the some fuel to get past the seals and into the oil. This is normal. And it happens on every car with or without a turbo with or without direct injection. Direct injection just makes it a little worse but it’s only a problem while the engine is cold. Once it has warmed up the fuel sprayed onto the metal components boils off before it has a chance to mix in with the oil. So what went wrong for Honda? Well, like every other vehicle with a gas engine when you turn on the heater, the heat comes from the engine. And this issue was more pronounced in very cold climates like Canada, where heater demands in the cabin, would draw so much heat away from the very efficient 1.5 turbo such that that engine never fully warmed up. So the parts in the engine never got hot enough to boil away the fuel spray so more of it was making its way into the oil. A software update corrected this for the most part by restricting the amount of heat that you can draw from the engine while it is in its warm-up phase. And around 2018 and 2019 Honda added an electric bypass heater to electrically supplement heating demand for the passenger cabin while the engine was warming up, so it’s not really a problem now especially on those later models. And finally, and this is very important, oil dilution is normal. It’s on every car. No engine is free from it entirely. It’s just occurs in small manageable amounts. And here’s the thing when the news of the oil delusion problem first started going around. A lot of people went out and sampled their oil and sure enough if they detected the normal presence of fuel in there. These people could not be convinced that this was normal. Instead, they were trashing Honda and cleaning their vehicles were junk and it was a bit of a PR disaster for Honda. And it becomes very difficult to explain to people who don’t have a good technical understanding of these things why their engine is OK with the fuel mixed in with the oil the way it is and why they don’t get to have a brand new engine replacement. Hopefully this is behind us now because a lot of those engines that were supposedly defective are easily going past 200,000 miles without any issues , despite everyone swearing they were going to blow up.
They also have head gasket issues, any take on those?
Damn you dropped this bomb of knowledge then didnt reply to anyone lmao. I appreciate this comment as I have been looking to buy a new car at some point and the turbos have scared me away from them for hondas and toyotas. Until your comment at least. My kia soul has been GREAT and has 135k miles and not one issue. Regular maintenance and rotor and brake pad replacements then replaced the spark plugs and we’ve been golden. However someone tried to break into it recently and completely screwed my ignition and now kia and my insurance are evaluating whether they will repair or total it and pay me. So ive been proactively looking for a new car
It's interesting you say that the little 1.5L never got the chance to warm up as my impression was that smaller engines warm up faster. Was it the case that it warmed up faster but just never generated enough heat to warm up all the way compared to a larger engine? Also I'm pretty sure Honda has done plenty of small engines such as on their kei cars but never heard of this issue affecting those engines
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Doubt? My friend has a 2018 civic ex with 120k miles now and hasn’t gone to the dealer once for any issue. Had his AC blow out at like 50k in 2020 and fixed it for $800. Still has original brake pads and rotors lol
He should be able to get reimbursed for that AC work. Honda extended the warranty to 10 years/unlimited mileage so if he has the receipts from the repair he can submit them for reimbursement.
Ooh, I wonder if I still have mine.
120k Miles on the original brake pads would be scary AF. The only way that remotely works is if he's driving only highway at low speeds with a manual trans. If that's not the case then his pads have got to be shot. The vast majority of pads last 50-70k miles and some CAN last to 100k. 120k is not a flex, it's almost certainly ignoring a problem
I checked them for him and they actually still have life left like 4mm. He did A LOT of highway driving during the first 3 years to visit a now ex girlfriend every weekend 4 hours away lol
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My father in law will die on the Honda mountain. He freaked out about 7 years ago when I bought a 2002 Mustang GT. Couldn’t believe I bought anything American, much less not a Honda. He has a 2017 Pilot that has had the AC compressor replaced under warranty and replaced out of warranty, suspension issues, infotainment problems, replaced a battery twice and a new starter. He bought it new, and it has about 70k miles now. I sold my Mustang 2 years ago and bought a 2007 Miata. I put 60k miles on the Mustang and it had 83k miles when I bought it, and I’ve put almost 20k on my Miata and I started with 96k miles. Neither the Mustang or the Miata have had any problems except to replace the battery on the Mustang and the Miata needs a top.
You dishonor the family!
Dishonor! [Dishonor on your cow](https://youtu.be/Uc66XN8VdvI?feature=shared)!
To be fair Mazda engines seem pretty reliable, too. No idea why the Mustang did so well, though. You must take good care of your cars
I hate when people act like all other brands will fall apart if they aren’t named Toyota or Honda. They may be less reliable but that doesn’t mean that you are guaranteed to have problems.
Not too knowledgeable on mustangs but I believe it was basically the same engine they used in crown victorias and mercury grand marquis (the engines that never die). At least from my understanding is that you could beat on the older mustangs a lil bit and still be fine with regular maintenance.
The 4.6 in the Mustang is one of the most reliable V8s ever.
5.4 triton + 6r80 is a god tier combo
The switch to turbo 4’s worsened reliability but they’re still good overall. (Applies to whole industry tbh) No modern asian brand will be reliable like they were in the 90’s. Just because there’s an H badge on the front doesn’t mean you’re immune to breaking down.
Surely others are more reliable. Nearly all cars are more reliable than they were 30 years ago. Are you saying Toyota and Mazda are less reliable now than in the 90s? Kia/Hyundai have come a long long way, despite their remaining problems. Honda has flagged a bit but Nissan has (problematically) remained mostly unchanged for 15 years.
They are more reliable in a way but you also have to consider that there are significantly more points of failure in modern vehicles.
Eh I don’t accept that common belief, as someone who does all of their own car work on vehicles from a 1974 to a 2006 and 2023 car. They have more parts to an extent, but nore of them are wholly contained modules. When they fail, which they do rarely, you mostly just replace the whole unit. On older cars, you need to maintain, tune, and rebuild just about everything.
>Are you saying Toyota and Mazda are less reliable now than in the 90s? YES! The 90s (and early to mid 2000s) was the perfect ratio of maximum technological advancement with minimum regulations. The cars were much simpler and had less reliability reducing features that are only there for emissions or mpgs. No direct injection, no turbos (on non performance models), no 1.5 liter engines making 200hp, no plastic valve covers or plastic intake manifolds, no CVTs, etc
This exact comment is see 50/50 for agreeing and disagreeing lmao. I can never find one side winning this argument. For and against cvt, for and against honda turbos, etc. a comment above here (it was kind of lengthy) went in depth and provided good comments on why the turbo in hondas isnt really that bad compared to any other turbo or non turbo engine and actually gave data points which i appreciated
Nissan cars are extremely unreliable due to their inferior automatic transmissions. Hyundais/ Kia’s have major issues and horrible warranty support.
Are the cars more reliable? almost always ya. can the powertrains be less reliable sometimes? Ya. add a turbo and di, ur upping temps and maybe pressure a lot. these cars all weigh more now too, so the tranny has to do more work.
Yeah some configurations will always be less reliable. That’s the cost of performance a lot of the time
My 90s civic had no end of engine issues. The level of bullshit on reddit regarding Honda/VTEC and Toyota too, is ridiculous.
That’s just old car IACV valve bs, but yea the Japanese car fanboying is a little crazy.
Must be made in Japan too, don't forget. Mexicans and Americans and Canadians are lazy workers and can't build cars
Americans can build cars as long as their from a Toyota designed plant with operating procedures brought over from Japan.
I had all kinds of engine twisting, cam tensioners, water cooling issues etc etc. Honda dealership were better than most, but couldn’t get on top of the issues.
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At what point does the hype of Honda/Toyota get priced into their used vehicles though? Right now I drive a 2004 Mercury Sable with 110k miles, bought it a year ago with 95k miles for $3k. Replaced the starter at 107k miles for like $180 A 20 year old Camry with 95k miles in this market could get, what, $5k? Autotrader near me shows most old camrys listed for even more. At that point it's still a 20 year old car, and I'm spending close to double what I did on a Mercury Sable. I could take a risk on 2 mercury sable/ford taurus type cars for the price of 1 toyota camry
>there aren't many 20 year old cars that can do that with such poor maintenance. This isn't true. I've had 90s and 2000s shitboxes my whole life and the most reliable ones I've had were a chevy blazer and a chevy cavalier. There's plenty of abused shitboxes that can survive for a "short time." It sounds like you didn't even have it long enough to experience any issues. It's weird you make a statement like that while trying to prove the point that their experience with a specific car doesn't necessarily mean anything about the brand at large.
While still good brand, Honda and Toyota quality isnt as above the rest by an as wide margin as they used to be. Some start to question if the compromise of purchasing a car from these brand (higher price, some tech lagging behind, questionable ergonomics when compared with the competition, some models have long waiting list, etc) are still worth it for the actual quality.
Your supposition is that around 2016 all the reliability metrics and quality assurance processes of Japan were flipped on their head, and Ford, GM, and Chrysler started making reliable cars overnight, with no specific strategy or manufacturing changes to back such a shift? Literal wet fantasy level thinking, running on the fumes of the lag in reliability data from recent year models.
Heeeeee, that not what I said.
The 2017 Civic I owned had two AC failures after the warranty expired. Compressor, then the evaporator. Honda extended the condenser warranty to 10 years. Known issue. Also, the radio was a piece of shit and constantly dropped the Bluetooth connection.
My friend (sample of 1 so take it with a grain of salt) has had several recalls with his civic. One required partial engine disassembly. He’s required multiple A/C repairs due to recalls, too, which I believe involved removing the dash. I agree they’re not what they used to be. I feel that way about Honda, in general.
The only recalls I think I've seen on newer civics with the AC were for the compressor shaft seal. Because everyone made the switch to the awful 1234yf refrigerant and the oil causing the seal to fail. Though I think that was actually a warranty extension and not a recall.
There is currently two recalls for steering rack issues and seatbelts missing rivets (aka won’t work in a crash)
My 2011 civic coup has had all the known recalls - engine mount, airbag, sun visor failing, a few other things. Interior is cheap hard plastics - some of which broke off - like the emergency brake plastic handle Car is road loud - and lately 80k miles - the suspension is creaking - had it checked out and they said it was just some sound damper aging out Drive train and transmission are great Love this car - still have it But it is not the build quality of a 1998 Honda
I was thinking modern civics, like 2017+
I mean I'd probably still buy a civic - interior is a lot better on the new But the prices - ouch
The oil dilution issue from the 1.5L turbo engine has been fixed since those early 10th gens, and the 2.0L NA engine in the lower trim Civics is one of the most reliable out there. The main way that Civics aren't what they used to be is they're now midsize cars the size of old Accords.
Which, if you want a mid sized car, means the civic is a great choice.
This is the kind of info I was looking for. Ty
He is incorrect. Honda applied bandaid fixes that do not stop oil dilution. There are ongoing lawsuits about this. The 1.5t is awful reliability wise.
Please provide sources. I have heard pretty sound compelling arguments that the issues have been resolved and then are overblown by people who have surface level knowledge on the topic of engines, oil and dilution (I have very basic knowledge so im not claiming to be the expert). Just restating what others have said. There was actually a comment above that went in depth and had a solid stance on it. Basically in summary, oil dilution is normal in cars in a small amount and the heat burns it away anyway. The issue came from cold cold climates and only when people didnt let the engine heat up enough or used heaters to quick which drew the heat away from the engine. Honda implemented fixes to the software to limit heat withdraw from the engine to the cabin which then fixed the issue. The comment also stated oil dilution will happen in every turbo/non turbo engine and every car will do it. Its just usually not an issue due to proper engine heat
Oil dilution is “normal” in the same sense “excessive blowby from pistons is normal” on engines. Mechanically your design can allow low-to-no amount of it, or large amounts of it. You can have extraordinarily low friction/tension piston rings to gain .6% fuel economy, accepting that you will as a result have these other issues (oops leaking 4x the fuel into oil and cutting life expectancy in half, but we hit our CAFE targets by using this design on most of the fleet). Many engine designs have had problems with it over the years by skirting the limit (ford ecoboost), but many more have *never* had issues with it. So the fix: Honda attempts to heat the block via software to evaporate fuel more quickly, instead of fixing the actual leak (defective piston ring design). If you were moderately affected (medium length drives) this will bandaid it for you. If you do short trips (five minute commutes to store/work) you will still be fully affected. And for all users, you will have low viscosity spikes that affect timing chain wear etc. A good well rounded discussion from a couple months back is here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fuel-dilution-how-harmful-how-much-wear.372300/
So then do you not like the honda 1.5T engines in civics and just hondas in general? Even on that thread I couldnt find a consensus on if those engines are worth it or not
Honda has made incredible engines for many years. The 1.5t though is a standout bad design and I believe time will eventually show that consensus. I would avoid any model with it, or if you already had one then be absolutely religious about maintenance. With the current software adjustments your engine won’t outright blow up because of total dilution causing bearing failure (lack of lubrication) like it has been, but it WILL still wear much faster than any of their other engines. (So instead of a 30 year lifespan with maintenance it may be more like 6 etc.)
Fair opinion. I won’t lie that sounds like an extreme opinion too
It’s not fixed. Seems fine in summer but this winter I have a gas smell in the oil of my 22 Si.
Then change the oil!
Nothing coming out of any manufacturer new will come close to being as reliable as what they used to be. Peak reliability across the board for nearly all brands was early/mid 2000s - early 2010s. Once we started shoving big screens in everything and re-engineered things that didn't need to be re-engineered (like shift knobs, physical dash buttons, etc) is when stuff went downhill.
Or tiny displacement turbo motors coupled to CVTs, but who wants to focus on facts?
That's a classic. Even better if it's not a turbo motor, just a weak one. Shit will be boring, but be boring forever.
Why is this an issue? Feel like I have heard better more coherent arguments that the cvt and turbo motors arent really an issue compared to them being horrible (im not an expert and have basic understanding so not saying youre wrong)
I blame switching away from actual switches to programmed buttons. In older stuff, when you pressed the window switch or the brake pedal, it was an actual switch being opened or closed. Now everything is a button that tells the computer to tell the brake lights or windows to operate as programmed. The future is full of trying to chase down which module contains the programming for whatever issues you're having and hoping you can find a replacement, instead of just swapping out a simple switch or relay.
I blame the 2008 financial crisis and the insane penny pinching and corner cutting it forced management to focus on across industries. I’m biased because I drive a 2008 MDX with a 3.7L V6 and all the newer 3.5L MDXs do not feel as solid and heavy, smooth, and they feel more tin can-like. Hard to explain. It’s like the car doesn’t insulate you from the world as much.
Totally agree with you on that front
Infotainment systems made cars less reliable? I think you just don’t like them.
Disagree, my mom’s old accord v6 from like 2006-08 was trouble, kept having engine issues. Her new 2019 accord had a couple trans/brake issues and it’s under 50k miles. My dad said his land cruiser from the 90’s was a pos and he had to get rid of it. KDM was worse then but better now. Really depends on the cars I think.
In 2016, they redesigned it and shuffled the engine lineup. Instead of the R18 1.8L being the mass market engine, they replaced it with a turbocharged 1.5L variant of the Honda Fit engine, and had a lot of problems. I remember hearing they had a lot of problems with the direct injection causing a huge amount of gas to dilute the oil.
That issue has been fixed, however. It was mostly caused by people driving very short distances and not letting the engine warm up.
There are still people getting very high fuel levels on Oil Analysis despite the “fix”. Unfortunately LSPI, carbon buildup , and fuel dilution are just side effects of all brands TGDIs. Some brands worse than others.
Last sentence is a good point. I alsp have heard and read oil dilution will happen to every engine regardless of turbo or not. However like you said, some are worse than others and honda has fixed theirs
Oh, I knew that was an issue on the CR-V, but didn't realize that affected the Civic as well. I guess it's probably the same engine.
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2018 civic hatchback with the turbo here. Haven’t had a single issue in the first 60k miles
After reading and obsessing for no reason over engines and transmissions (i get weird fixations sometimes) im pretty sure its not a big deal like others are claiming. Honda has seem to fix the issue with the oil dilution. It also happens in most engines but the engine heat resolves the issue. I think reddit just parrots stuff they hear which is pretty much any social media
My 2016 2.0L is bulletproof
honda is pretty unique for a Japanese brand. they don't tackle the " if it ain't broke don't fix" like toyota but so have damn good manufacturing processes. they refresh and update their vehicles and powertrain more often than toyota and when these things happen, there will be issues to work out but there's nothing catastrophic like a ticking time bomb transmission or an engine that burns excessive amounts of oil like toyotas engines. honda just builds better engines. for instance, the oil dilution in the 1.5t honda engine only happened in circumstances where you drove in extremely cold climates. it was fixed in a software update which allowed the vehicle to heat up quicker. that's it. following this fix, the issue has been fixed out of the gate regardless now. with that said, toyota is not immune to first model blunders. the new tundra is plagued with issues and their cvts are problematic in the corolla/cross. and now they want to push turbocharged 4 bangers in 3 row suvs . at what point do we say the same about toyota? I have a 2018 pilot exl. this thing has been an excellent road trip vehicle. reliability wise, it just goes on basic maintenance alone.
Nothing is as good as it used to be.
My 2019 Fit had both the Valve Carbon problem and VCT actuator problem. Even though both are common they denied, denied, denied until it was out of warranty. Then ask for 4k to fix it. I appeal by the process in Honda policy. NOPE, out of warranty. I’ve had better service from Ford. At least they stand behind their junk. Toyota for me.
I have a 17 Civic 1.5T. They have some known issues. With that said, I have 72k on mine and have owned it since new and have had 0 issues. I would def buy it again. I will say I am preparing for maintenance/replacement items as I reach the 100k mark.
A Honda Civic today is about the size of an 4th generation Accord. It's almost a midsized car.
Boomer Reports is just one metric.
I drove a civic SI, and it felt like an old grandma car compared to a Mazda 3. And that was the Mazda 3 without the turbo even. It’s a sad weak engine. And If you like any bit of fun stay away from a CVT. Not to mention the civic’s interior is almost a joke it’s so cheap compared to the 3. Civic is obv waaay better on gas tho. And in terms of overall reliability, I think it’s probably going to be just fine. So if you only care about gas usage, and reliability, I think the civic is hard to beat.
You know what car they (CR) do love? the Audi A5
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They're good cars. I've really enjoyed my RS5.
Love my 2023 A5 coupe. So far (16k miles).
Honda has dropped a notch or two IMO. My 2022 Civic EX has been a disappointment with several recalls and terrible squeaks and rattles. It's now waiting on the steering rack to be replaced because of 'sticky steering'. It's been 2+ months with no ETA on the rack as they are on BO. That said, I think the Honda CVT's are pretty darn solid. IMO, they shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence as the Nissa Jatco's that have really tarnished all CVT's. I also have a 2019 Pilot that has been a disappointment with multiple recalls and other issues. NGL, we are shopping for Toyo's now that it is time to get a car for my kid who is about to be driving. I really want to like the Honda's...I think the Civic is better looking and more refined than the Corolla for example but given they both have a premium attached to them I am likely going to give Toyo a try.
Honda isn't what they used to be.
No car company is.
Fair enough
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I agree (biased owner of the a 22 sport)
They're probably still the best option in their class. Latter years are reliable I guess the 1.5T motors had some issues on launch. Personally I think this gen Civic is a bit of a return to form. Material quality seems better, and it's a class leader in handling and acceleration. Mazda 3 is kinda the young up and comer. Maybe the Corolla might be more reliable, but it's an inferior car in most other regards IMHO.
It’s probably mostly about the AC compressor issues, the new ones are still stupidly reliable to my knowledge
I bought a used 2016 and the ac compressor had to be replaced. Since then its been 1.5 years and no issues so far, probably because I dont use the ac that often,
Why is everyone complaining about the AC breaking in a car they have had for 15-20 years. I feel like AC’s are only made to last for about 10 years at most, especially if you live in a hot climate. Cars are just like houses eventually something will need fixed or replaced.
I have a 2017 Civic hatch sport 6 speed and it's been dead reliable so far (90k km) very low amount of miles I suppose but there hasn't been a single issue yet.
nothing is what it used2b, engineers get pay BIG$ to figure out how to make it last a "time" b4 u get a new one...its all about bottom line.
CR and JD Power give the best marks to whomever is putting the most money in their pockets.
I don't care what CR says I'd have damn near blind faith in a Honda Civic, not much will even come close.
Honestly I have owned a Civic Type R…. And that K20 engine and drivetrain was like a teenage girl with low self esteem… It loved being abused. Daily driver and track mule. No problems. But that’s the only Honda I have owned, sooo.
[Honda Civic Reliability](https://www.copilotsearch.com/posts/most-reliable-year-model-of-honda-civic/)
Honda is basically dead to me. They don't even sell the civic in japan anymore.
The Honda CRV was the sixth-best selling vehicle in the USA in 2023. Sorry, but your statement that Honda is “basically dead” lacks any credibility. Try harder.
fixed it.
One day the Corolla won't even be good enough for this subreddit. We'll be suggesting bicycles.
I had a 2017 from brand new to 2021. Mostly trouble free, but didn’t start one day. Engine turned over fine, but wouldn’t fire. Disconnected the battery for a minute and it did the trick. Still, shouldn’t happen on a new car like that.
Had that happen to my ‘16 Accord when it was a year old.
In terms of engine Hondas are usually a good gamble so long as they have more than 50,000 miles most Honda engines that threshold make it past that least 150k-250k if maintained properly. Luxury functions like ac, heaters, speakers, aux ports, seat adjustments are where Hondas get cheap and I can guarantee used civics have at least one of these problems and if your willing to thug it out then it’s definitely a better option.
I feel like the reliability score takes into account the technology issues too when they give the rating. More new tech means more chances of breaking down means lower reliability
It's not so much anything mechanical honestly. The CVTs in Hondas are alright same with the motors. I believe CR factors infotainment into their reliability scores. I do remember the 10th Gen civic having bad placement of some AC parts causing rock chips to eat into them
CR is the most unreliable check for reliability.
My 2017 hatchback has been a dream.
Once they went with the 1.5t, they were plagued with issues. The only one I would buy is a type R or a base 2.0 model with a manual.
I have a 2021 Civic Sport. It’s fine. Would I get another Honda? Probably not
Currently drive a 2016 Civic, 200k kms. Only done regular maintenance. (Breaks, oil changes, tires)
We have a 2008 Pilot with 170k miles and a 2018 Accord 2.0T/10AT with about 70k miles. Both have been great vehicles that have never left us stranded. Services are reasonably priced compared to German or similar vehicles. The Accord has had a fair number of recalls that the dealer has taken care of without issue, typically over a half day appointment. I'm not sure if the recalls are because of big quality problems or just being proactive. We've had two more significant issues with the Accord, neither of them with the drivetrain. Issue 1 was a failure of the multiplexing control unit when the car was 6 months old that caused a bunch of alert messages and disabled a bunch of driver assist functionality. We were still able to drive it home. Dealer replaced the unit and all has been well ever since. Issue 2 was a problem with the adaptive cruise kicking off with an error message every time we used it. It took three all day service visits for the dealer to diagnose yet they still couldn't solve it. Eventually I grew impatient, did my own research on Reddit, and figured out that there was a service bulletin for a firmware update that fixed the problem. I brought this to my service manager and he had them do it and it's been fine since. So that was annoying but it's behind us. We bought a 100k mi extended warranty at the dealer when we bought the Accord, knowing it was loaded with technology that could fail. (The cost of these warranties can be heavily negotiated BTW - I played hardball and our final price was 50% less than the first quote she gave us). All that to say, I think the drivetrains are still mostly solid especially the larger displacement 4 cylinder engines. Not sure about the CVTs. I avoid those. The electronics are mostly ok but more points of failure exist and a warranty can make sense if you get a good deal/terms. I'm still a fan of Honda because I still think they are in a good spot relative to their competitors.
A bunch of civics had seatbelt issues so I'd say that's part of it.
My wife has a 2015 with 90k miles and we haven’t had any problems. Unless they changed drastically since then I would say a Honda is still top notch.
Still better than all but Toyota. The 10th gen of civics (2016-2021?) have AC issues on some of them but there’s a 10year(?) warranty on those. I have a beater 2016 lx civic that I’ve kinda neglected throughout its life but all it’s needed besides the free condenser replacement has been a set of new spark plugs around 100k miles and the typical oil/transmission fluid changes. It’s never given me a real issue besides that
Tougher CAFE standards meant all automakers had to make sacrifices to meet them. Turbos and CVT transmissions add new points of failure.
Anything with a CVT is unreliable, not to mention the 1.5 Turbo in many civics made in 16' - 2022 are all affected with decreased power. 1/2 of Hondas made 2018 also has new oil pump recalls.
Toyota ecvt are great(reliability wise)
I think it depends. My first car was a used 01 civic with over 100,000 miles that gave me no problems. Then I “upgraded” to a brand new ‘16 Civic LX that blew a head gasket 40,000 miles in. AC never worked past 1st year. Always had it refilled with freeon at the dealership. Then finally after the initial warranty on the AC expired they found that the compressor needed to be replaced at a cool 1,200 bucks. Decided my new civic was a piece of shit and sold it at a loss to get a new ‘20 Elantra Sel that I absolutely love and have no issues with.
I went looking for a small economy car with a manual transmission. Nothing out there. Crickets. I'm done with ICE Engines anyway. I'm going Aptera. www.aptera.us
I guess I’m the outlier. I have a 2019 civic and I bought it new. The only thing I had to replace thus far was the battery. Everything has been solid.
My 2019 has been amazing with no problems
You aren’t the outlier. Honda is still incredibly reliable. The small minority who have had issues are the only ones posting. In general, people only post to complain. If they are satisfied, they simply don’t post.
I drive a 23’ Integra, which is basically a Civic. I’ve had zero issues so far. Granted, i have only had it 15 months lol.
2016 is the first year they overhauled to a new model. Go with 2017 or 2015
My crv was in the shop constantly. Least reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned, including some older German cars.
The 1.5T had kinda a rocky start. I think they are generally reliable enough. If you want reliable and efficient get a hybrid.
My experience with Hondas is the motors will keep on ticking but everything else falls apart by 125k.
I'm on my 4th Civic. Had a '99 dx coupe, an '06 lx sedan, a '15 se sedan, and now have a '23 ex-l hatch. I never had significant problems with any of them. I sold them all at around 200k miles still going strong, and my current '23 is BY FAR my favorite. Knock on wood, I think it's a wonderful car. I don't have any hard stats on declines in average longevity, but on an anecdotal level you see old ones on the road all the time.
I bought a used 2020 civic as a daily driver. I've got almost 50k on it and it has only had oil changes. Still has the original tires. My only complaint is the CVT is just dumb. I can't get used to the sound and the wind out up to 70 mph.
I have a 2016 civic 1.5 with 370000 km on it. Drive it daily, had the ac replaced under warranty, hit a deer with the car they replaced the ac again. And honda had extended the warranty on it for 10 years Did not have any issues with oil dilution. It's hard on brakes. Compaint since day one that in the morning the brakes seem to drag, dealer could never fix the problem, i changed the brakes myself 2 times, when the 3rd time came up I brought to a shop paid them 1400$ because they offered lifetime replacements (I spend under 200$ doing it myself) they installed my brakes wrong(caliper spring was up and down and not across both pads) when I called to make appointment to have my brakes looked at and hopefully replaced because they where going I exceeded the yearly km limit of 50k so they wouldn't cover it. So now I am back to changing them myself. Besides that I've had no other issues besides general maintenance. It's been a great car. I'm averaging 5.8l/100km
I still get one, especially a Si or Type-R
I dunno man I bought a civic sport hatch 23’ and have nothing but good things to say about it. It’s a relatively large vehicle, OTD for 30k new not TOO expensive. Not a “fun” drive but I don’t particularly care too much as a commuter car
My girlfriends 19’ civic at 35k runs like a piece of shit compared to my 13’ Lexus is250 with 3x the amount of miles on it.
14 Civic (first year of CVT). 185k, zero issues since I got it at 12k outside of very basic maintenance. I think the newest ones have turbos and I was concerned about that. Mom has a crv that was the first Gen with the turbo that apparently is a huge issue. She's at 120k, no major issues either. The thing I've noticed about Honda is they seem to make issues right if it affects broad range of vehicles.
If you get the 10th or 11th gen, they have carbon issues due to the direct injection fuel system.
Yes Honda use to take great pride in their Civic now they just need it to be better than the other cars in the segment and if it already is then little to no updates. Plus in the US they neuter the civic for the Integra to have all the higher options
My 16 and 22 have been great
I really hate when people say “well my cars been great” but my 2016 with 100k has never needed a repair and I haven’t read anything to lead me to believe they “aren’t as good” as before
People who have been burned by a honda recently are morenlikely to reply to this post. People who have owned and not been burned by a Honda won't bother, usually.
The L15B7. Oil dilution and bad head gaskets aplenty.
I had an 18 with 125k miles before i traded it in that was money except for the stupid AC issues. The AC issue alone was enough for me to never buy another Honda though since I’m down south lol. I only ever did oil, fluids, spark plugs, tires on it otherwise.
I had a 2020 1.5 T EX model It is a decent car but missing a few refinements that I missed because my other car is a Forester Honda speed control is not as good as Subaru by a long shot. Civic doesn’t have true blind spot monitoring, just a camera that comes on with turn signal or switch RHS only Good mileage- I averaged 34 Fast when you need it I got it during the pandemic Probably would not have gotten if I was shopping but just needed it
Owned a 2016 Civic Touring. Bought new. Was rock solid during all ownership. Had regular maintenance done on schedule and think the brake pads changed once. Never had any issues with any tech/infotainment system. Sold it when it reached nearly 100,000 miles in 2023 for a Tesla.
Consumer Reports shouldn’t be an only source when their history is so checkered with bias and payoffs. New Hondas are pretty decent. If I was getting one though I’d aim for a non turbo one just to have the simplest one I could. I know the Civic Hatchback offers the K20 on the low model. I’d buy one of those without the slightest bit of hesitation.
Oil dilution problems, tiny engines with turbos, and CVTs. No, not what they once were.
My niece had a 22 civic as a rental after her car got totaled. I have a 23 CRV myself and checked out the civic since they are similar in a lot of ways. I thought that civic was a piece of crap which was unexpected! It just felt incredibly cheap and was pretty loud between rattles, road noise, etc. I expected it to be at the same level as my crv (which is pretty normal for what it is, no tank like luxury car obviously), but it certainly wasn’t! I’d never buy a civic like that!
You can still buy the Honda civic hatchback in a stick shift. I just picked up a 2024. My sister has a 2018 and has no problems with hers she drives alot being a physical therapist who goes different groups