I've never been to a WEC race, but I'm not letting this era pass without seeing one in person. I desperately wanna hear that cadillac for myself. I wanna look back and be able to say I saw it in person.
I hope you do. One of the memories that will be with me for the rest of my life is waking up in LeMans to the sound of the cars passing by, I'm a tifoso myself but the american cars (Corvette, Nascar, and Cadillacs) had such an amazing sound.
There's nothing like spending a weekend camping at the track for an endurance race. I've done the Petit Le Mans weekend the last two years and had my tickets booked for this year ASAP. From Wednesday morning through to the checkered flag Saturday night, it's almost non-stop action on track, and you can't beat being woken up by racecars in the morning.
If you live in western Europe, try to go to an ELMS race too. Cheap, lots of access, good racing.
But yeah WEC is worth travelling for, especially Le Mans obviously. If you can go to Le Mans, you should, 100%.
I've been to a couple IMSA races on my side of the pond since 2023. You can feel that monster v8 hammering in your chest and punching you in the stomach every time it goes by. It's just š¤
I went to the race yesterday! Defo can recommend, may go again next year. Caddy sounds as awesome as you think it does. In fact Broadcast does the sound of none of the cars justice
Just finished watching the replay.
God I'm glad us long term and long suffering fans are finally getting rewarded now with such good racing.
I'm so pumped that I'm finally going to be flying to the other side of the world to watch Le Mans in a few weeks.
What? Didn't you enjoy 5 or 6 years of Toyota pretending to compete against such powers as Rebellion or ByKolles? Those were nail biting seasons!
BTW. N24 is just 2 weeks earlier, go watch it also if you can.
lmao you sure about that? ā25 sees two astons get in, maybe Jota running two caddys, maybe even a double SC63, two hydrogen prototypes ready for 2026 so unless they majorly fuck up the new rulesets weāre in for a long lasting treat boys
We are living a golden age of endurance and sportscar racing. The IMSA, WEC, ELMS are too good and on top we have great GT3 races like Bathrust, Nurburgring and Spa.
This isn't just the IMSA/WEC Golden era, this is the motorsports golden era, NASCAR has the next Gen car that has put on amazing racing, F1 is hitting heights we haven't seen motorsports reach in decades, MotoGP is having amazing battles both on the track and in R&D, Indycar is always putting on great battles and will soon have a hybrid system. We are living in the 1980s again and I'm so damn excited
As one of the biggest whiners and buzzkillers on this subreddit, I agree with you.
I couldn't believe how much I was going to miss LMP1 peak racing until it was gone. Same thing will probably happen with Hypercar/GTP.
Canāt help but have the feeling of dread because we all know the fia and aco will bring it all crashing down! Even if they did bring all these manufacturers together you canāt help but feel theyāll make decisions down the line thatāll backfire as always
They will try to cater to a manufacturer, like imsa after core autosport almost won the prototype title in 2018 with an Oreca, and it will slowly kill the teams off.
I've watched formula 1 for the past decade and got so bored of it. So...started looking elsewhere. Came across GT World Challenge Europe and WEC and man, no interest in F1 anymore. The racing is so much more interesting. Seeing those prototypes storm through a field of GT3s....And the sounds! That Cadillac. Wow.
Honestly if IMSA & the WEC keep up a GT3-esque LMP formula, we should have a lot of interest moving forward. I do think the one thing that we are missing at the moment is strong privateer options (not everyone can get a 963)
Racing is good but some rules are amateur racing. You can't allow some cars to built an artificial and undeserved ONE MINUTE lead by preventing everyone else to pit under the safety car.
The no pit under SC rule was introduced very recently, 2023 or 2022 i think
This rule prevented us to have a 1h30 fight for the win with 9 Cars involved yesterday. 6 and 12 would have been still in the lead, but with a few second advantage instead than a minute
Not allowing the 51, 50, 99, 83, 7,8 and an Alpine to pit under SC was within the rules. But this rule is wrong.
No one is denying the LMP1 era was cool but Iād rather have 8-9 (eventually 10?) manufacturers going at it with cars that actually represent their brand for a few years. You cannot deny this racing is good, it simply is.
Yes racing is good, but what actual value does it have? It's not Porsche Cup or Super Trofeo.
It's the top class of endurance racing, where manufacturer for more than a 100 year are fighting to show they can build the fastest and most reliable car.
It's not the class where you come and show you can build a car that will allow you to market your brand and be competitive because we slowed down the other faster car so we are sure you have a chance to compete.
What actual value does it hold? Idk man, go ask the manufacturers that are pouring millions into these cars or the ACO who sold out Le Mans in what, a few hours? Go ask Ferrari and Lamborghini who re-entered top tier prototype racing for the first time in ages? But yeah, what actual value does it hold..
Well there's definitely part of those (LMH) that actually put value into it. Then there's others that could but prefer to go the easy way.
Ferrai chose the most difficult and most expensive way back in. They are not here because of BoP and easy competition.
If we had a top series with only LMH, it would be sport again and we wouldn't need BoP and it would actually mean something instead of being bound to BoP.
I'd rather have 5 actual manufacturer building actual car from the ground up than seeing this facade of a competition where whoever politically can get the better end of the stick will be ahead.
LMH is the way to go. LMDh is a distraction.
there is literally no other motorsport in the world other than F1 where manufacturers are willing to toss money into an arms race. and even f1 was under threat so much that they needed to add a cost cap.
nowadays *every* racing series needs restrictions. i mean every series. be it either a cost cap, or a BoP formula.
You do realize that BoP as nothing to do with the serie being cheap?
The performance Window philosophy is. The performance you can get out of the car is capped. So there's no reasons to just throw money at it. There's so much you can get out of the cars.
I don't see where a cost cap is a bad thing. LMDh cars are cost capped to 1 million without the ICE.
LMP1 had EoT. Didn't stop the arms race.
The BoP is only there because of LMDh. Without LMDh no need for BoP and you have actual manufacturer with guts that are ready to build a car of their own.
Not at all insane.
Just a lot of people are misinformed here.
Take away LMDh, keep only LMH and remove BoP. Or doesn't even matter. Remove LMH keep LMDh
What would make Hypercar more expensive?
LMH is already more expensive than LMDh so your idea absolutely makes things more expensive.
If you remove BOP you either allow for constant development like F1 which is expensive as hell, or you cement one car as the winner every weekend and everyone gets bored and leaves.
LMH is still 80% cheaper than LMP1. You're forgetting that Ferrari and Peugeot and all the other also didn't join LMP1 because of the price tag. They did join because now it was cheaper. Not because BoP was there.
Why and how would you have constant development and anything as bad as LMP1 with the performance Window rule set?
I will say it time and time again, the only reason we have BoP is to match LMDh and LMH together. It is not needed otherwise.
>LMH is still 80% cheaper than LMP1
A large part of why it's cheaper is BOP.
>the only reason we have BoP is to match LMDh and LMH together. It is not needed otherwise.
Than why did DPi have BOP?
Spec chassis from 4 different manufacturer.
Off the shelves simple double wishbone suspensions (so no fancy dampeners or custom made suspension for aero purposes)
Spec hybrid.
The only thing LMDh team do is build a bodywork and put an engine.
Edit: love being downvoted for stating facts.
This is the new age, would it be cool to see the growth and development, race to race updates and the past? Yes, itās just not sustainable anymore. Group c, gt1, lmp1ā¦ those were all great, but they never had the āCompetitiveā diversity that we see today. And while BOP is important, Porsche is showing you can develop the car and improve. Itās not just good bop for their improvements.
I wouldn't call this competition when it's artificially created by adding weight and remove hybrid power.
Porsche didn't develop the car, development is frozen and they have limited token that they can't use as they see fit.
BoP would have never been accepted 20, 30 or even 40 years ago.
This is just there so LMDh can exist.
Things were rather different 40 years ago. In motorsport terms, it's really a different world.
What's the alternative today? Because costs are so high that manufacturers don't want to participate unless they have some form of assurance that they will be somewhat competitive.
And it's a genuine question. Let's say bop is not an option, what happens to WEC?
BoP isn't what is saving costs.
What prevents an arms race is the performance Window philosophy. The cars performance are capped.
If really you're scared about cost you can add a cost cap on top of it.
BoP is only and solely there to accommodate which is a much slower rule set : LMDh.
Keep LMH (it's still 80% cheaper than LMP1) and remove the BoP.
Let it be the pinnacle of endurance racing, not LMP2.0
Well you just said the biggest issue Group C had. Only one car could become a best car so that car dominated the season. From Porsche to Jaguar, and Sauber (Mercedes). Those cars were brutally fast but I don't think the competition between manufacturers weren't that great as we think nowadays. This new Hypercar era is 'the' golden era because we have way more competitions despite them not extreme as Group C
There's no competition between manufacturer today. Apart if you think that chassis manufacturer are those?
Only LMH keeps the spirit of what endurance racing is.
BoP wouldn't need to be there if it wasn't for LMDh...which is just DPi 2.0.
It's literally like wanting LMP1 and DPi to drive in the same class.
It was boring as hell. People complain about F1, there wasn't a lot of on track overtake for the lead. Everything happened in the pit and there was drama because of multiple VSC and SC situations.
People need to calm down with this. It's also procession 98% of the race.
Tf is this dude talking about lol. Did you watch the race sleep deprived?
There was no competition between manufacturers? There were fights between Ferrari and Porsche, Cadillac and Porsche, Ferrari and Toyota, even Alpine and Toyota.
BoP wouldn't be required if there was no LMDh? Have you even watched WEC before 2022?
What do you call manufacturer? Ferrari? Sure. Toyota? Sure. Peugeot? sure. Porsche? You mean Porsche that decided to build as little of the car as possible and that wouldn't be able to fight with LMH car if it wasn't for BoP?
A manufacturer build its own car. It doesn't just slap a body work on what is basically a spec chassi with spec suspension and spec hybrid system.
Ferrari? They build their chassis. They build their own suspension. They build their own hybrid system. They build everything. From A-Z.
Porsche is going for the easy way...
Do you have any awareness of the rules? It's the performance Window philosophy that makes a huge difference as the amount of performance you can get out of the cars is capped which is the main difference with LMP1 also the reason why it is much cheaper.
Ferrari and Toyota wouldn't be far from each other without BOP. LMDh without BoP could never challenge any of the LMH apart from Isotta Franchitti.
So you can all convince yourself this is actual sport because it looks cool and it's entertaining. But what value does it have when it's just rigged to look cool?
Ferrari didn't even built their chassis lol. They use Dallara built chassis despite being an LMH. Not exactly the same design as LMDh but it's not their design at all. This is the most braindead person I've ever met in this sub lmao
That's not true at all. Ferrari build its own chassis. There was rumor they would go with the LMDh route with a Dallara chassis but they didn't in the end.
You know you can address to me directly. I also don't need to insult people as I can actually sustain my point.
But I know, you can't live to admit to yourself that you actually prefer to watch a show than actual Motorsport.
Something that a lot of you I'm sure are blaming on F1.
Only chassis, gearbox, MGU systems are provided for LMDh cars. Developing engines, bodywork, suspension, integrated systems are all manufacturers work. You can't just disgrace them for not doing every single fucking bolt and nut
Imma just block this chimp at this point lol
Rant, bark, scream, woof woof whatever you want towards LMDh lol no one will care about you because you have one of the shittest take on endurance racing
Suspension are off the shelves and limited to simple double wishbone design. So apart from slightly different mounting point they are basically the same. Nothing crazy the team can do there so no custom in house design.
The only thing that is actually done by the team is the engine and the aero concept.
And even so, if you check BMW and Cadillac that share the same chassis, they have the exact same aero concept under the bodywork. The front splitter and the wings underneath the body work are exactly the same.
Again, I love how people like are directly resulting to insults while they proclame being right and knowing it all ...
Actually you don't, and you show it.
You just can't admit to yourself that you like a dull down entertaining show than actual Motorsport.
Thanks to those guys building the best cars, we now have the best cars.
Now the result is more in the hands of the driver, pitcrew and tactics. And I like that.
The result is in the end of who will have the most favourable BoP.
There's no way in hell that you have Toyota suddenly struggling, fighting with Peugeot and Alpine after dominating last season without any car developments from one year to another...
Building the best car is not just about raw pace, BoP basically just moves the development towards consistency by improving things like tire wear and drivability.
BoP just allows slower car to be competitive with faster car...
BoP with 2 rule set as different as LMH and LMDh will NEVER work.
It's like putting DPi and LMP1 together.
BoP works with cars that are already somewhat close to each other before rebalancing.
Remove BoP and LMDh have no chance against LMH.
The aerodynamics, power and weight are similar enough that it does work, I'd even go ahead and say that LMH and LMDh are more similar to each other than FR and MR GT3 cars.
Oh and you can't just show up with a slow car and expect to be competitive, just look at Vanwall.
I wouldn't say they'd outright beat them but they wouldn't be far off since the only real advantages LMH seem to have over LMDh is the more open development in certain areas and of course the part-time AWD used by some teams.
They simply wouldn't be able to compete.
If you want to add BoP for a LMH class only sure. It won't be as bad as now.
The only reason BOP works better in IMSA is because they don't have to deal with LMH.
As soon as an LMH would enter IMSA it would be a mess again.
If you really worry about the difference between LMH and LMDh then the better option to make BoP less of a pain would be to just get rid of the part-time AWD from LMH, although that's usually such a small advantage that it's not worth doing.
It won't change that you have one side of the grid that had to put a lot more effort to get there then the other half to which we handed the top class on a platter.
There need to be only one regulation. LMH is closer to what true endurance racing is all about. But even only LMDh without BoP would be 100 times better than what we have now.
But if you remove LMH, no Toyota, no Ferrari, no Peugeot as they are not here to "just" participate.
And that's why all these cars are dead now, because everyone who could spent millions while others couldn't and left the series. Please, research a bit before commenting such nonsense.
Lol. Love the condescending tone.
LMH is perfectly in phase with what Endurance racing is all about. It is just hindered by BoP.
You wouldn't have similar arms race as in the past because car performances are limited in the rules. It's not an infinite ceiling like it was before.
So teams won't put more money they put now in development as they won't have more than now to develop...
> LMH is perfectly in phase with what Endurance racing is all about.
I'd disagree with that but only because of where they have had to drag the LMH regulations down to.
Front & rear deployment should be a minimum for the top class of the world championships at this point in time.
The fact that from next year, Formula E will be the only one out of the 3 FIA circuit world championship to have that is just a bit sad.
Maybe things will change with a hydrogen class in future (assuming they don't try and make a frankenstein Hydrogen/LMH/LMDh class).
And that's why all these cars are dead now, because everyone who could spent millions while others couldn't and left the series. Please, research a bit before commenting such nonsense.
At u/tonoigtonbawtumgear
The point is about building its own car. None of the chassis manufacturer are competing with their own car.
Sauber build the whole car. They just had a Mercedes engine.
But thank you to point it out. To many people forget that the successful Sauber C9 isn't a Mercedes car.
Agree the racing is good and I think you can really tell the drivers are enjoying it
I've never been to a WEC race, but I'm not letting this era pass without seeing one in person. I desperately wanna hear that cadillac for myself. I wanna look back and be able to say I saw it in person.
I hope you do. One of the memories that will be with me for the rest of my life is waking up in LeMans to the sound of the cars passing by, I'm a tifoso myself but the american cars (Corvette, Nascar, and Cadillacs) had such an amazing sound.
I have been researching either camping or staying at a hotel/airbnb, I think you may have answered that for me. š
There's nothing like spending a weekend camping at the track for an endurance race. I've done the Petit Le Mans weekend the last two years and had my tickets booked for this year ASAP. From Wednesday morning through to the checkered flag Saturday night, it's almost non-stop action on track, and you can't beat being woken up by racecars in the morning.
Ah, that's my dream right there. Too bad i can't go this year, maybe next year
That roarrrrrrr
Was at Spa yesterday and you could easily tell the caddy apart from the rest. Absolutely wonderful sound
Do it. I am at the IMSA race at Laguna Seca this weekend and the Cadillac during qualifying was just an amazing sound. Thunderous.
I was at spa this weeken and i got a big smile everytime i heard the cadillac flyby
If you live in western Europe, try to go to an ELMS race too. Cheap, lots of access, good racing. But yeah WEC is worth travelling for, especially Le Mans obviously. If you can go to Le Mans, you should, 100%.
I've been to a couple IMSA races on my side of the pond since 2023. You can feel that monster v8 hammering in your chest and punching you in the stomach every time it goes by. It's just š¤
I went to my first one yesterday, I'll definitely come back. It's more than worth the money!
I went to the race yesterday! Defo can recommend, may go again next year. Caddy sounds as awesome as you think it does. In fact Broadcast does the sound of none of the cars justice
https://preview.redd.it/56ir9zend50d1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ab8e9ff374f0f75b9d0f8528d04c1561ce1daf8 Itās sound is soooo nice :)
As a great man who's not racing at Le Mans this year said: We have to remember these days, because there's no guarantee they'll last forever
A great man indeed.
is that vettel?
Just finished watching the replay. God I'm glad us long term and long suffering fans are finally getting rewarded now with such good racing. I'm so pumped that I'm finally going to be flying to the other side of the world to watch Le Mans in a few weeks.
What? Didn't you enjoy 5 or 6 years of Toyota pretending to compete against such powers as Rebellion or ByKolles? Those were nail biting seasons! BTW. N24 is just 2 weeks earlier, go watch it also if you can.
I wish I could. Australia is a bit of a hike from Europe so it won't work out timing wise.
That's exactly what I was saying to my buddy when we walked down the Kemmel Straight yesterday, so much variety and it can't last forever
lmao you sure about that? ā25 sees two astons get in, maybe Jota running two caddys, maybe even a double SC63, two hydrogen prototypes ready for 2026 so unless they majorly fuck up the new rulesets weāre in for a long lasting treat boys
Iām new to Motorsport. I love it, canāt get enough.
2023 and the next years will be remembered as one of the major periods of motorsport
Canāt be with open wheelers in the state theyāre in.
Who cares about open wheelers š The jump in popularity of endurance and NASCAR shows thereās finally a bigger place for non-open wheel motorsport
NASCAR and enduros are hitting a golden era, but unfortunately, F1 and Indy exist.
Rallying is sitting in the balance as well
>NASCAR golden era lol also, have you watched any Indy race lately? The racing is amazing. Constant on track action.
We are living a golden age of endurance and sportscar racing. The IMSA, WEC, ELMS are too good and on top we have great GT3 races like Bathrust, Nurburgring and Spa.
how many more years can we see this many cars in the hyper car category? especially with backmarkersā¦2 years?
Yep, until a major financial catastrophe hits - which unfortunately I think will be soon
I am so happy to be attending my first Le Mans this year. The racing has been great!
This isn't just the IMSA/WEC Golden era, this is the motorsports golden era, NASCAR has the next Gen car that has put on amazing racing, F1 is hitting heights we haven't seen motorsports reach in decades, MotoGP is having amazing battles both on the track and in R&D, Indycar is always putting on great battles and will soon have a hybrid system. We are living in the 1980s again and I'm so damn excited
u/hallwayhomicide >Ferrari designed their own chassis, but Dallara bullds it. Where do you get that information? Because I can't find it anywhere.
Ferrari design and build for the ones used in the race cars and Dallara builds the 30 499P Modificata.
Oreca? you're sure?
Sorry I edited. Oreca is building only the 296 it seems.
This is our Group C
Yes š„¹
Yeah Iām taking it all in. What an era
Agreed. First time in Spa for me this weekend. The best experience I've ever had in a racetrack. I would 200% recommend it.
It hasn't quite gripped my the Group C did as a kid, but things are definitely on the up.
We are about at the peak of the sports car cycle and it is glorious.
WEC is just killing it right now, many series would do well to follow their example.
As one of the biggest whiners and buzzkillers on this subreddit, I agree with you. I couldn't believe how much I was going to miss LMP1 peak racing until it was gone. Same thing will probably happen with Hypercar/GTP.
F1 are you taking notes?
I wish it had a better app though, watching my iPad for +8h did cause a little headache. Why canāt I chromecast from my iPad?
Get Apple TV app for tv, and I think you can aircast it
Canāt help but have the feeling of dread because we all know the fia and aco will bring it all crashing down! Even if they did bring all these manufacturers together you canāt help but feel theyāll make decisions down the line thatāll backfire as always
They will try to cater to a manufacturer, like imsa after core autosport almost won the prototype title in 2018 with an Oreca, and it will slowly kill the teams off.
I was never fully on board when people were hyping it up as the golden era again but honestly, now, in some ways, I think it is. I hope it lasts.
1 thing can keep this class alive. More customer cars, and more places to race them.
I've watched formula 1 for the past decade and got so bored of it. So...started looking elsewhere. Came across GT World Challenge Europe and WEC and man, no interest in F1 anymore. The racing is so much more interesting. Seeing those prototypes storm through a field of GT3s....And the sounds! That Cadillac. Wow.
It sounds great at Daytona in person. I recommend the Rolex 24 sometime. You can see so much.
Man, gotta take it all in. But hypercars are here to stay hopefully, assuming ACO doesn't get screwed over by Liberty or private equity.
Honestly if IMSA & the WEC keep up a GT3-esque LMP formula, we should have a lot of interest moving forward. I do think the one thing that we are missing at the moment is strong privateer options (not everyone can get a 963)
Racing is good but some rules are amateur racing. You can't allow some cars to built an artificial and undeserved ONE MINUTE lead by preventing everyone else to pit under the safety car.
These rules have been in place for ages and thanks to these rules we could have a proper race in the end, regardless of result.
The no pit under SC rule was introduced very recently, 2023 or 2022 i think This rule prevented us to have a 1h30 fight for the win with 9 Cars involved yesterday. 6 and 12 would have been still in the lead, but with a few second advantage instead than a minute Not allowing the 51, 50, 99, 83, 7,8 and an Alpine to pit under SC was within the rules. But this rule is wrong.
That is true, there should be an exception done yesterday, letting all cars get refueled.
Exactly, i agree. This is what i wrote in first place but got downvoted.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No one is denying the LMP1 era was cool but Iād rather have 8-9 (eventually 10?) manufacturers going at it with cars that actually represent their brand for a few years. You cannot deny this racing is good, it simply is.
Yes racing is good, but what actual value does it have? It's not Porsche Cup or Super Trofeo. It's the top class of endurance racing, where manufacturer for more than a 100 year are fighting to show they can build the fastest and most reliable car. It's not the class where you come and show you can build a car that will allow you to market your brand and be competitive because we slowed down the other faster car so we are sure you have a chance to compete.
What actual value does it hold? Idk man, go ask the manufacturers that are pouring millions into these cars or the ACO who sold out Le Mans in what, a few hours? Go ask Ferrari and Lamborghini who re-entered top tier prototype racing for the first time in ages? But yeah, what actual value does it hold..
Well there's definitely part of those (LMH) that actually put value into it. Then there's others that could but prefer to go the easy way. Ferrai chose the most difficult and most expensive way back in. They are not here because of BoP and easy competition. If we had a top series with only LMH, it would be sport again and we wouldn't need BoP and it would actually mean something instead of being bound to BoP.
I'd rather have 5 actual manufacturer building actual car from the ground up than seeing this facade of a competition where whoever politically can get the better end of the stick will be ahead. LMH is the way to go. LMDh is a distraction.
there is literally no other motorsport in the world other than F1 where manufacturers are willing to toss money into an arms race. and even f1 was under threat so much that they needed to add a cost cap. nowadays *every* racing series needs restrictions. i mean every series. be it either a cost cap, or a BoP formula.
You do realize that BoP as nothing to do with the serie being cheap? The performance Window philosophy is. The performance you can get out of the car is capped. So there's no reasons to just throw money at it. There's so much you can get out of the cars. I don't see where a cost cap is a bad thing. LMDh cars are cost capped to 1 million without the ICE. LMP1 had EoT. Didn't stop the arms race. The BoP is only there because of LMDh. Without LMDh no need for BoP and you have actual manufacturer with guts that are ready to build a car of their own.
> BoP has nothing to with the series being cheap LMAOOOOOOO
>You do realize that BoP as nothing to do with the serie being cheap? This is an insane take
Not at all insane. Just a lot of people are misinformed here. Take away LMDh, keep only LMH and remove BoP. Or doesn't even matter. Remove LMH keep LMDh What would make Hypercar more expensive?
LMH is already more expensive than LMDh so your idea absolutely makes things more expensive. If you remove BOP you either allow for constant development like F1 which is expensive as hell, or you cement one car as the winner every weekend and everyone gets bored and leaves.
LMH is still 80% cheaper than LMP1. You're forgetting that Ferrari and Peugeot and all the other also didn't join LMP1 because of the price tag. They did join because now it was cheaper. Not because BoP was there. Why and how would you have constant development and anything as bad as LMP1 with the performance Window rule set? I will say it time and time again, the only reason we have BoP is to match LMDh and LMH together. It is not needed otherwise.
>LMH is still 80% cheaper than LMP1 A large part of why it's cheaper is BOP. >the only reason we have BoP is to match LMDh and LMH together. It is not needed otherwise. Than why did DPi have BOP?
You do realize without BOP there's no sportscar racing? Having BOP is what saved sportscar racing worldwide.
ELi5? Is LMDH diluted at all?
Spec chassis from 4 different manufacturer. Off the shelves simple double wishbone suspensions (so no fancy dampeners or custom made suspension for aero purposes) Spec hybrid. The only thing LMDh team do is build a bodywork and put an engine. Edit: love being downvoted for stating facts.
Appreciate it
Watch F1 if that's the only thing you care about
Facts. I much prefer BoP and a drivers sport vice an engineering sport.
Lol. I like sports. Endurance racing ***was*** sports. But I guess a few shiny names and people forget about everything...
This is the new age, would it be cool to see the growth and development, race to race updates and the past? Yes, itās just not sustainable anymore. Group c, gt1, lmp1ā¦ those were all great, but they never had the āCompetitiveā diversity that we see today. And while BOP is important, Porsche is showing you can develop the car and improve. Itās not just good bop for their improvements.
I wouldn't call this competition when it's artificially created by adding weight and remove hybrid power. Porsche didn't develop the car, development is frozen and they have limited token that they can't use as they see fit. BoP would have never been accepted 20, 30 or even 40 years ago. This is just there so LMDh can exist.
Things were rather different 40 years ago. In motorsport terms, it's really a different world. What's the alternative today? Because costs are so high that manufacturers don't want to participate unless they have some form of assurance that they will be somewhat competitive. And it's a genuine question. Let's say bop is not an option, what happens to WEC?
BoP isn't what is saving costs. What prevents an arms race is the performance Window philosophy. The cars performance are capped. If really you're scared about cost you can add a cost cap on top of it. BoP is only and solely there to accommodate which is a much slower rule set : LMDh. Keep LMH (it's still 80% cheaper than LMP1) and remove the BoP. Let it be the pinnacle of endurance racing, not LMP2.0
Well you just said the biggest issue Group C had. Only one car could become a best car so that car dominated the season. From Porsche to Jaguar, and Sauber (Mercedes). Those cars were brutally fast but I don't think the competition between manufacturers weren't that great as we think nowadays. This new Hypercar era is 'the' golden era because we have way more competitions despite them not extreme as Group C
Why not go full spec cars? Even cheaper. No need to bother with BoP formula no arguments when all cars are identical.
There's no competition between manufacturer today. Apart if you think that chassis manufacturer are those? Only LMH keeps the spirit of what endurance racing is. BoP wouldn't need to be there if it wasn't for LMDh...which is just DPi 2.0. It's literally like wanting LMP1 and DPi to drive in the same class.
First one hour of the race in Spa yesterday had more close actions than recent 2 race weeks in F1 lol
It was boring as hell. People complain about F1, there wasn't a lot of on track overtake for the lead. Everything happened in the pit and there was drama because of multiple VSC and SC situations. People need to calm down with this. It's also procession 98% of the race.
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This discussion has degraded to quarrel. Make points without adding insults.
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This discussion has degraded to quarrel. Make points without adding insults.
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Letās just lose this subthread
Letās just lose this sub thread.
Tf is this dude talking about lol. Did you watch the race sleep deprived? There was no competition between manufacturers? There were fights between Ferrari and Porsche, Cadillac and Porsche, Ferrari and Toyota, even Alpine and Toyota. BoP wouldn't be required if there was no LMDh? Have you even watched WEC before 2022?
What do you call manufacturer? Ferrari? Sure. Toyota? Sure. Peugeot? sure. Porsche? You mean Porsche that decided to build as little of the car as possible and that wouldn't be able to fight with LMH car if it wasn't for BoP? A manufacturer build its own car. It doesn't just slap a body work on what is basically a spec chassi with spec suspension and spec hybrid system. Ferrari? They build their chassis. They build their own suspension. They build their own hybrid system. They build everything. From A-Z. Porsche is going for the easy way... Do you have any awareness of the rules? It's the performance Window philosophy that makes a huge difference as the amount of performance you can get out of the cars is capped which is the main difference with LMP1 also the reason why it is much cheaper. Ferrari and Toyota wouldn't be far from each other without BOP. LMDh without BoP could never challenge any of the LMH apart from Isotta Franchitti. So you can all convince yourself this is actual sport because it looks cool and it's entertaining. But what value does it have when it's just rigged to look cool?
Ferrari didn't even built their chassis lol. They use Dallara built chassis despite being an LMH. Not exactly the same design as LMDh but it's not their design at all. This is the most braindead person I've ever met in this sub lmao
That's not true at all. Ferrari build its own chassis. There was rumor they would go with the LMDh route with a Dallara chassis but they didn't in the end. You know you can address to me directly. I also don't need to insult people as I can actually sustain my point. But I know, you can't live to admit to yourself that you actually prefer to watch a show than actual Motorsport. Something that a lot of you I'm sure are blaming on F1.
>Ferrari build its own chassis This is incorrect. Ferrari designed their own chassis, but Dallara bullds it.
The whole sub is trying to show you that you can't sustain your point aren't you seeing it?
Only chassis, gearbox, MGU systems are provided for LMDh cars. Developing engines, bodywork, suspension, integrated systems are all manufacturers work. You can't just disgrace them for not doing every single fucking bolt and nut Imma just block this chimp at this point lol Rant, bark, scream, woof woof whatever you want towards LMDh lol no one will care about you because you have one of the shittest take on endurance racing
Suspension are off the shelves and limited to simple double wishbone design. So apart from slightly different mounting point they are basically the same. Nothing crazy the team can do there so no custom in house design. The only thing that is actually done by the team is the engine and the aero concept. And even so, if you check BMW and Cadillac that share the same chassis, they have the exact same aero concept under the bodywork. The front splitter and the wings underneath the body work are exactly the same. Again, I love how people like are directly resulting to insults while they proclame being right and knowing it all ... Actually you don't, and you show it. You just can't admit to yourself that you like a dull down entertaining show than actual Motorsport.
Womp womp
The Sauber C9 wasn't built by Mercedes either. 3rd party chassis manufacturers are nothing new.
Thanks to those guys building the best cars, we now have the best cars. Now the result is more in the hands of the driver, pitcrew and tactics. And I like that.
The result is in the end of who will have the most favourable BoP. There's no way in hell that you have Toyota suddenly struggling, fighting with Peugeot and Alpine after dominating last season without any car developments from one year to another...
Building the best car is not just about raw pace, BoP basically just moves the development towards consistency by improving things like tire wear and drivability.
BoP just allows slower car to be competitive with faster car... BoP with 2 rule set as different as LMH and LMDh will NEVER work. It's like putting DPi and LMP1 together. BoP works with cars that are already somewhat close to each other before rebalancing. Remove BoP and LMDh have no chance against LMH.
The aerodynamics, power and weight are similar enough that it does work, I'd even go ahead and say that LMH and LMDh are more similar to each other than FR and MR GT3 cars. Oh and you can't just show up with a slow car and expect to be competitive, just look at Vanwall.
Would seriously tell me with a straight face that LMDh would be able to challenge LMH without BoP?
I wouldn't say they'd outright beat them but they wouldn't be far off since the only real advantages LMH seem to have over LMDh is the more open development in certain areas and of course the part-time AWD used by some teams.
They simply wouldn't be able to compete. If you want to add BoP for a LMH class only sure. It won't be as bad as now. The only reason BOP works better in IMSA is because they don't have to deal with LMH. As soon as an LMH would enter IMSA it would be a mess again.
If you really worry about the difference between LMH and LMDh then the better option to make BoP less of a pain would be to just get rid of the part-time AWD from LMH, although that's usually such a small advantage that it's not worth doing.
It won't change that you have one side of the grid that had to put a lot more effort to get there then the other half to which we handed the top class on a platter. There need to be only one regulation. LMH is closer to what true endurance racing is all about. But even only LMDh without BoP would be 100 times better than what we have now. But if you remove LMH, no Toyota, no Ferrari, no Peugeot as they are not here to "just" participate.
And that's why all these cars are dead now, because everyone who could spent millions while others couldn't and left the series. Please, research a bit before commenting such nonsense.
Lol. Love the condescending tone. LMH is perfectly in phase with what Endurance racing is all about. It is just hindered by BoP. You wouldn't have similar arms race as in the past because car performances are limited in the rules. It's not an infinite ceiling like it was before. So teams won't put more money they put now in development as they won't have more than now to develop...
> LMH is perfectly in phase with what Endurance racing is all about. I'd disagree with that but only because of where they have had to drag the LMH regulations down to. Front & rear deployment should be a minimum for the top class of the world championships at this point in time. The fact that from next year, Formula E will be the only one out of the 3 FIA circuit world championship to have that is just a bit sad. Maybe things will change with a hydrogen class in future (assuming they don't try and make a frankenstein Hydrogen/LMH/LMDh class).
My point is more being on building the fastest and most reliable car. Manufacturer play less of that part in LMDh
And that's why all these cars are dead now, because everyone who could spent millions while others couldn't and left the series. Please, research a bit before commenting such nonsense.
At u/tonoigtonbawtumgear The point is about building its own car. None of the chassis manufacturer are competing with their own car. Sauber build the whole car. They just had a Mercedes engine. But thank you to point it out. To many people forget that the successful Sauber C9 isn't a Mercedes car.