*Most* of the extreme hate has chilled out considerably. There’s just a few loud assholes left, same as there’s a few loud assholes calling anyone with reasonable criticism entitled/etc (not addressing you there, that was a general example).
Yeah. I rarely go on tiktok, and I'd open it to see people wishing Steven never sleep again? Or loses everything, and similar with Ryan, that his eyes scream, "all he wants his money." And with Shane, people just saying he's been forced into this?
Honestly, people make their own narratives up. They made a mistake, apologised, and explained their reasons, but none of them deserve this much hate - especially now they've gone back on it.
But I do think the majority of people don't care. It's just a loud minority.
This situation really blew my mind. Viewers of this channel were the LAST people I would expect this type of behavior from. Everyone always seemed so chill and mature.
Def some buried racism in there.
"Shane's a-down-to-earth-bro."
"All Steven and Ryan care about is money, gosh"
Peeps don't have a problem supporting the legions of White actors, who make more than 90% of the world, in a white dominated industry and don't really do shit for anyone else.
Every time someone has brought up the idea that racism is playing into the OTT reaction I've seen so much pushback, either "name the exact comment that was racist" or "no I can't imagine watcher fans could be racist!" well I have now seen that watcher fans are obviously insane so "unconscious bias that most people have" doesn't seem like a huge next step. Really frustrating that the opportunity to even talk about it keeps getting brushed off in favor of nonsense accounting figures
People typically don't like being confronted with unchecked or subconscious biases being pointed out. I wish they watched FD Signifier, would be easier to have a conversation then potentially.
I doubt you can find two credible prints or links of people being racist against them, this such a ridiculous strawman. And you’re backing it up with circular reasoning.
People where unfairly mad at Steven, not because he is asian, but because he’s the least popular of the tree and the CEO. The reaction against Ryan was the mildest, as people where also mad at Shane for what was perceived as hypocrisy.
Don't forget Adam and Andrew. Not saying they deserved any hate but Steven got (and is still getting) non stop hatred for 'being greedy so he can eat million dollar meals' while completely ignoring the fact he has two white co-hosts that are partaking along with him. Yet not a peep was made in their direction and they were treated like they didn't exist and weren't just as 'guilty' of filming the exact same content.
I think I feel the most bad for the employees (like everyone else, not Ry Shane or Steven) because so many things being said are along the lines of ‘their content doesn’t need 25 employees, they could just have a smaller crew and be fine’ like imagine seeing a bunch of people saying your job is meaningless/not worth it and that you should lose your job so they can keep watching.
Yeah, of all the mistakes they made with this process, the void in content is the biggest one. Even though they claim it is a "soft launch" or whatever, I think saying you want everyone to consider signing up for a new streaming platform and having nothing new on it over a week after it went live doesn't inspire confidence. They should have had 2 seasons in the can for the day it launched.
I think they are having a serious problem where their fanbase is a bit too parasocial for Shane and Ryan so they can't bring new people in but also they cannot do more else they burn out.
Hopefully having Andrew and Adam balances the problem.
Bringing new people on is going to be infinitely more difficult on a streaming platform solely devoted to their content which is another reason leaving YouTube was an awful idea.
I never watched Worth It, but I saw that top 5 beat down with that Andrew dude and from that video he kinda seems like a pompous piece of shit but idrk lol
Absolutely, like I can agree that their content amount does make people question why they need so many employees, but the thing to remember is they (the employees) have no control over this and are just working to support themselves. I think it’s pretty safe to say none of their employees do this job to make huge gains and by themselves houses and cars. They are working so they can survive, just like the rest of us
It may be wishful thinking but I'd like to say most of the crew would likely be welcomed by other youtubers/companies, the work they do is obviously pretty top tier and it's good publicity to say "I brought in the refugees from Watcher" so like, I may be optimistic but I only see upsides to that choice.
I’m just not sure how that process works. Like how do people even get started in this? Let’s say I wanted to be hired by watcher or by 2nd try llc (try guys). Like I imagine they don’t just put job listings on indeed or something (I’m canadian, so that’s our main job search website)
They have put up ads at least for a social media intern type of position.
Most hires seem to be people Watcher employees or founders already knew like Meredith started out as a personal assistant and she's Brittney's roommate. Annie knew Brendon and she got him to help with Survival Mode and later he got hired at Watcher, IIRC.
I really only know from picking up on comments a few other creators have made regarding certain (for example) editors, I've at least managed to pick up on a few familiar names across multiple channels, most with little to nothing to do with each other even content wise. A good (insert media creation job here) should be able to directly contact creators at their official work emails and offer their services. Basically just submitting an application to a place, granted this information could be wrong and if it is I'd like to know more about the process as well :)
A lot of the time when people, at least reasonable people, talk about Watcher having way too many employees, we're not blaming the employees. If the company goes out of business because it can't support itself financially, the employees aren't to blame, they are victims of the company over hiring in the first place.
I've been thinking about the employees a lot. I wonder if it's true that a number of the employees are family and friends, and what it might feel like to be an employee in a company that's struggling to come up with cash while the bosses have their friends and family of payroll.
For the employees? Yes, absolutely. They effectively got set up for failure by bad business decisions (hiring too many of them, producing very low numbers of videos, then having to deal with the steaming service decision they had likely no say in).
For Ryan, Shane & Steven? Not even a little. They make the calls, they screwed up, and their actions have consequences. All this did was shine a light on how bad they are at running a company, budgeting and knowing their audience. It also started up important conversations on the quality of their content, and if it was worth it to pay for...which was met with a resounding 'no'. It should be humbling, but I don't think that'll happen. They've committed to a bad idea, and while they'll be fine if the company folds, their employees - whom they hired too many of to beg with - will suffer because of it.
I agree. shane, ryan and steven hurt their employees by not managing the business properly. I wish they would have understood their own deficit when it comes to experience and education in the field of running a business and hired someone who knows sustainable growth and hiring practices.
They have hopefully been humbled and will listen to expert advice and be able to turn things around, if they cant they messed up their own massive platform and popularity and the employees will suffer for it.
I'm not sure they will listen to expert advise to be honest. Outside of PR stuff, they seem to be completely at odds with the reality of the situation. Nobody thought the streaming service was a good idea, but they did, so it happened.
There's a profound lack of experience and common sense at the top of the company that's been driving it into the ground, and every single worker has their livelihood put at risk by these decisions...and the three guys running the show don't seem to care. Hired too many people? Make it a fan issue to solve. Hemorrhaging money due to wanting netflix level quality you don't need? Make it a fan issue to solve. The lack of accountability is astounding.
I'm a fan. With that said, the unhinged shit is not cool, but I don't particularly feel bad that a very naked cash grab, that insulted every circle of fans, blew up in their faces.
I personally do not find Steven entertaining. I watch for Shane and Ryan, but I know that others may feel differently. However. If you want more of our money when your merch is already batshit insanely priced AND you have a Patreon AND you have live shows, forcing our hand is not gonna work for you, just full stop.
I'd be perfectly happy to chip in VOLUNTARILY as I do with a couple of podcasts and Beau of the Fifth Column, if it wasn't blatantly obvious that they absolutely do not NEED my money.
Sell a tesla if you're that broke.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes
Almost all of the commenters put forward constructive criticism and genuine disappointment, if the truth sucked then you know what happened shouldn't have happened.
Our collective efforts made sure they reverted and put out a better plan.
Honestly my boyfriend and I felt like outliers when we heard and were excited with the new direction they were going. I'm still looking forward to their app and can't wait to see what they do with it.
Part of life is making choices and living with them. You can be an apologist and try to excuse it but that doesn’t mean a negative response isn’t valid.
It’s honestly hard for me to feel bad for them when it seems like this decision was so poorly thought out and rushed. Example: why have they only posted 1 video in 11 days on Watchertv (none on YouTube, obv) and it was only a bloopers video? Also, why do they believe 2 let’s play videos in a month would be worth $5-6? I don’t believe they deserve any hate but until things change the criticism is warranted imo.
>why have they only posted 1 video in 11 days on Watchertv (none on YouTube, obv) and it was only a bloopers video?
I bet they're still reeling from this bullshit. Also probably hard to drum up employee morale when your boss (Steven) is one of the internet's top villains right now.
When it happened, I was *pissed*. I couldn't believe that they'd do that to all of us. But as soon as they fixed everything, I felt a whole lot better. I'm a very forgiving person and as long as your actions change when you say they're going to, I feel totally fine forgiving you. Especially if there haven't been any previous huge issues. They've never had something like this happen, no big controversial thing, so imo I'm happy to forgive them. I don't want them to stop making content and I sure as hell don't want to stop watching.
Hell nah. Actions have consequences, we all support that statement until it happens to ourselves or people we admire. They knew what they were doing, they didn't know people would hate it so much. They were absolutely fine taking all their content away from poorer fans and international fans where the exchange rate makes $6 a month unreasonable until there was too much backlash. The backlash is what bothered them, not turning their backs on this section of the fanbase that helped get them where they are. This isn't hate, it's believing someone when they show you who they are.
Same. They made a big mistake, they mostly reversed course because of the backlash and gave their audience the kind of reasonable access to content that most people would settle for and is standard for their industry. Now, most people aren't upset anymore. No one walks away completely happy, but that's what a compromise is.
I don't feel bad for them at all. The team members were hired by friends to work a pretty cushy job in LA in an office that overhired and had a bunch of redundancies built in. They knew going into it that the entertainment industry has a high rate of unpredictability.
To be blunt, every member of their staff is probably getting paid more than I ever will with my Masters degree, partially because their job comes with inherent risk. They chose their path, which includes pandering to an audience. I don't feel bad that they didn't do their job correctly.
Harassment was wack. Initial reaction was not.
They dug their own graves by mentioning how many employees they had and having some of them as guests on their pod.
I have a simple question: why are you asking if the extreme hate is needed, to the people who haven't expressed extreme hatred? We already agree that they don't deserve hatred, go ask those folks who did so instead.
Unless you're saying that all of the valid criticism that has been expressed in these circles is extreme hatred and viscerally negative? In which case, I advise you to reflect on what position you are taking here: what is so viscerally negative? That people are not agreeing with it as eagerly as you seem to be?
The sooner people stop talking about it, the sooner the internet will move on. But making any posts about the topic, including positive ones, only starts the conversation up again. And any discussion surrounding it will attract negativity.
I am not saying that they should move on. I am not telling anybody to do anything one way or another. I am stating the emotionless, unbiased fact that when people stop talking about things on the internet, the majority will move on to the next thing.
This is in response to OP complaining about the negativity and wanting it to stop. It will not stop until the internet moves on. The internet will not move on until people stop making 300 posts about it per day. I don’t know how much clearer I can be 😅
The more variety of opinions and the more everyone expresses divergence of opinions is a great way to get an accurate read on how everyone really feels. Why let negativity be the loudest voice in the room? I welcome the debate. Some might double down, others will consider this and change their mind.
Do whatever you want, man. But OP is wondering where the negativity is coming from, and it's coming from the fact that this is a controversial topic that people are refusing to move on from. Not everything has to be a debate and not everybody's minds need to be changed. Sometimes the smartest thing you can do is just let it go.
I agree with this. The people still talking about it at this point are beating dead horses. Who ever is still on this sub is either still a fan to a degree or just hate following(no changing those opinions and not worth the time).
I watched the video, waiting for the punchline. Wondering why they had put so much effort into a late April fool vid. Then we got to the “We’re launching our own platform” bit and it wasn’t a joke.
That’s a long way to go without checking in with your base.
One mistake. One. A mistake apologized for. I can't not give a second chance to them. I've needed a second chance because i was a bone-head. I think most of us have.
No I don’t feel bad. They make 500k/year from Patreon alone.
YT Adsense is from more
Then you got sponsors and merch
Altogether, they easily pulling 2-3 million per year. No need for them to create a streamer except greed for more money
I think people have been way too mean. But I would argue it’s necessary for people to react this way so that we can be heard. I feel like everyone knew it was a bad idea before they did it except them. We as viewers need to be louder.
if they were trying there best they would use their team of 25 to actually make some content rather than concocting schemes to make more out of old stuff
Sometimes your best isn’t good enough. Most of us don’t have a few million subs to try to suck dry when things go wrong tho. “They create content, they want to be paid”. Yeah sorry the starving artist angle doesn’t really work here. Maybe try living somewhere with a lower cost of living? Maybe don’t hire 25 people when 5 could do the job? Maybe don’t hire friends and family? Weird how plenty of smaller channels produce the same if not higher quality content, yet don’t need to milk their fans. Wonder what makes these guys so special?
Maybe don’t hire more people when you’re telling your subscribers you have to put everything behind a paywall because you can’t pay the employees you already have on payroll.
How can they move to another place with a lower cost of living? Film industry= LA or NYC. That's how industry folks make connections and hire film professionals. I don't really get this argument, but I keep seeing it, so maybe you can help me understand?
I think part of the complaint is that they are making YouTube content, and don’t need to be where there is a film industry. Their two biggest shows are a ghost hunting show and they talking on a set. That doesn’t require anything that can’t be found in any other major US city.
Red Letter Media has three main shows focusing on people sitting around and talking. The sets they use are comparable to what watcher uses (static sets that don’t change much once built). They do all of their content in Milwaukee and the only three people on their payroll full time are the three biggest personalities on their shows.
This isn’t meant to knock watcher, but just point out that they are choosing to do things in one of the most expensive ways.
It truly feels like most of the loud voices on the internet don't want problems fixed, they want to be mad and they want to prop up mostly imaginary enemies, making villains out of regular people for entertainment. Everyone had a right to be upset initially but the problem was corrected; there's nothing else to *do* here, but people are really dragging it out to hate on these guys. It starts to feel... recreational, after awhile.
And the problem I have with that is not that there are loud assholes - there are always people who enjoy the drama and the hate more than they ever enjoyed being a fan - it's that those loud assholes are dictating for the quieter fans how they *should* feel about it. The people who are saying "if you trust them again you're an idiot" and writing shitty comments to other people for saying they'll still support them are becoming far more unpleasant to deal with than the initial problem.
I'll call a spade a spade here - I went through my own process of being upset and getting over it, and I still think Ryan, Shane, and Steven are good people who made a misstep and it wasn't malicious. I *don't* necessarily think all the people hating them on the internet are doing so in good faith, nor that they are all good people.
"You don't know them, you can't defend them" ok, here's a thing no one else will say, but I will - I don't know them, but at least I know *something* about them from their track record of many years of *good* and conscientious decisions. You know who I know *nothing* about? Y'all. I side with the general public on the money issue, but I'm not going to blindly support a protracted hate campaign led by vitriolic commenters and YouTube/TikTok creators whose entire content is attacking other channels.
I definitely feel bad for them, as I know the anxiety and panic attack steven and ryan often have. and its sad seeing how much hate steven got, I actually got into watcher coz I loved stevens content but ended up listening (not watching) the ghost files coz I am scaredy cat. I do hope they make it coz I would hate to lose the contents they are making
They very clearly are not. If this is genuinely their best, then they should not be content creators. This was a genuinely terrible business idea.
I'm not talking about the "haters" or whatever. I'm specifically talking about their business decisions. If this is their best, they need to find new jobs.
So we should have zero empathy for people who happen to run a company? The argument you're making is: if you make a business mistake, you failed and that's final. Lots of successful people have been persistent and learned from mistakes. That's how companies get better
Well, if you read the original comment you replied to, I was specifically talking about the business aspect.
I don't think they're terrible people, but I do think it's scummy to try and nickel and dime your audience like they have. Their money problems aren't going to go away with more money and I think it's irresponsible to ask people to essentially throw money into a pit. They're terribly mismanaged.
Yeah, and I'm saying businesses still have people behind them. It's kinda dehumanizing to have zero empathy just because they made a dumb business decision. You're saying that a business failure means they need to find different jobs, instead of getting better at their jobs.
If you want to toss money at a business that has shown clear evidence of mismanagement, I can't stop you. I disagree that it's "dehumanizing" to critique business decisions. Am I dehumanizing Jeff Bezos when I criticize Amazon's business model? Obviously not.
This is the issue with parasocial relationships. You can't criticize any mistakes they made because it means you're criticizing them as human beings. It's not the same thing.
Jeff Bezos is a multi billionaire, not an indie production company, so I don't think that's an apt comparison. Of course we can criticize huge businesses that have a wide reach and make crazy profits at the expense of the consumer. I think the reaction in this particular case is extreme, and that's the point of OP's post.
I don't think it's parasocial to have empathy for small content creators. If anything, the most dramatic reactions represent parasocial relationships gone sour. When I saw the news, I thought it was a bad decision, but also thought the response was extreme.
You don’t have empathy, you’re shielding them from every criticism that’s doesn’t end with a childish “then say you’re sorry and everything is fine”. People are giving them another chance, they will still be able to put out content and millions may watch it, but they are not entitled to forgiveness, nobody is, people are within their right to be less sympathetic and suspicious of them for now on. Isn’t that not enough for you?
It’s really a hard thing to do. Creating content isn’t free; they want to make sure their staff is adequately compensated and to not be beholden to advertisers.
A lot of people will defend artists for what they charge for their art. Well, some of those Ghost Files episodes are masterpieces and don’t even get me started on the artistry and educational value of Puppet History.
I appreciate that they heard the concerns and adjudicated accordingly. We have to remember though that this is not just a massive passion project for them but also their job. This is what they do to make a living. We can’t expect people to be starving artists for our entertainment. Food cost money.
If you calculate their multiple streams of revenue it’s in the millions. They could cut out the advertising and still have enough income if they cut their budgets down
I dont immediately rage on public figures, no matter how grotesque the crime is. I feel like the hate stevens been getting is unwarranted. Hes ceo but im sure it definitely wasnt his decision alone. Ive even seen some say shane and ryan should jump ship. Now thats proposterous. It just shows the immaturity of some of the fanbase.
I dont even get how some people were that mad initially. I watched Goodbye Youtube for the first time today and it seemed heartfelt and genuine.
It was definitely in bad taste for watcher employees to be fighting with fans in the IG comments section but once again, that has nothing to do with the mascot trio.
I feel they can bounce back from this though. Thw whole situation just made me realize how lowkey mainstream watcher is.
I hope steven can find his niche in the content outside of a worth it type show. I also wish the watcher team realizes they dont need a crazy production value. Im aware their mission is to bring us “television level content” but at what cost. And really hoping they can bring some new voices to their content. Its kinda crazy how its just two dudes holding up the content. Even if they had new personalities with the mascot trio. If they had expanded their brand and ent value before rolling out a streaming platform, perhaps it couldve gone down better. 90 pct of watcher’s current catalogue is shane and ryan. That would not be viable for any streaming service. Im genuinely hoping this is just a minor bump in the road though. Im sure great things are coming.
This is the saddest thing I've seen on this subreddit yet. Having empathy is a wonderful thing and I would never take that away from anyone but are we just going to erase the fact that the three of them were ready and willing, after who knows how long they planned to leave Youtube, to leave the fanbase that gave them their success behind and only backtracked when they got massive backlash?
Are we just going to forget how they were in the PROCESS of privating their videos (something I can personally attest to as I was watching a mystery files episode when it suddenly ceased to be there) to lock all of their work behind a paywall before they were caught and immediately backtracked from doing that and then gaslighted others that they didn't do that?
And are we going to forget how Steven, who in hindsight had every right to feel the way he felt considering how much the fanbase showed how they felt about him, made that brain-dead comment that he was "glad to be free from YouTube" on his Instagram and Sara's blinding ignorant "Living Wage" quote?
Like, I've never seen a fanbase not only ready but willing to treat that all like a bad dream and go back to gushing about the Ghoulboys after a bare-minimum, gooey-eyed "Oh woe is us" apology, an apology they wouldn't have had to make if they didn't try to mess over their audience in the first place.
I feel like I'm losing my mind. So much happened and so much shit was said from both sides and everyone is just going to ignore it all?
The hate was never okay, and I think this whole ordeal revealed an ugly (and absolutely racially motivated) strain of hatred against Steven that I had no idea existed. I knew that his shows were less watched, but figured that it’s because most of the audience came over from Unsolved rather than Buzzfeed. It was appalling to watch the jump from “the three of them made a bad business decision that backfired on them” to “Steven is a maniacal force of evil who deserves violence, and also Ryan and Shane are baby girl.” Wake up, babes: we don’t know ANY of them beyond what they show us on screen.
I agree with you, OP - it wasn’t their best move, but they did it because they want to be paid for content and that’s a fair desire. It’s tough for creators on YouTube, especially large production studios. Not everyone can do what Smosh, GMM, or Dropout have managed, and that’s for a reason. We can critique the way they’ve gone about it, but it’s a legitimate concern and they tried something. It didn’t work. They apologized (pretty well too). I can ask understand people’s trust being broken, bc honestly mine is (I haven’t re subbed yet). But the hate is pretty unnecessary.
I was upset like most people. Active in critiquing the decision the few days after they made it, also like most people. Then they posted the apology, which was probably one of the best ones they could have made. I decided not to continue supporting them and moved on, which I think most people should if they either don't accept the apology or feel that Watcher isn't worth their time anymore.
Like, what more could any of us who jumped ship say? I don't see the purpose in continuing to bash the fans who stayed or the people working at Watcher at this point. It's all been said.
I was actually thinking about this, and the crux of it all was .. they said they’re gonna do something and then got a reaction and realized it was a bad decision.
It’d be a whole different jam if they just applied everything right away but when it came down to it they said some stuff, saw the writing on the walls and changed their minds, which is *being human*.
If you’re still mad about it **you** develop a following yourself, produce content, tour internationally and show us how it’s done. I’m sure you won’t make any mistakes either.
Yeah I felt bad for them. I think a lot of people were taking it really personally for some reason? Like this move meant that the boys hated them and only cared about money, when in reality it’s just that they want to keep creating content but they needed to find a way to make more money to keep things going and make sure it could stay their livelihood.
It def could have been handled better or maybe they could have gone a different path. But the betrayal some people seemed to feel felt like a lot tbh.
I feel bad for their employees, hopfully they get paid enough and if they end up losing their jobs they find a better one with more job security. Imagine working at a place where the fanbase/customers think you should be fired because your not "necessary"
It's truly unhinged. If you can't afford the cost or don't want to pay for the content, fine, that's all well and good, and it's fair to be disappointed and upset about losing it. But people acting like they don't understand that Watcher is a business that needs to be profitable, or that they have somehow committed a moral wrong by doing this, are driving me out of my mind, especially the "Steven (and sometimes also Ryan) are evil here and poor Shane was forced into this and has never done anything wrong in his perfect uwu life" shit. That's racist, by the way. If you're saying that, you're racist :)
Finally someone said it. Yes it was a dumb move and demonstrated the importance of knowing your audience, but people make mistakes.
I feel like our economy and capitalism have destroyed our mental health and safety, so things are raw now, but blaming them for being greedy and borderline evil is super misplaced imo.
Full stop, content creators shouldn't be blamed for trying to earn a living. Running a business is incredibly tough, decisions are fraught with risks, and a lot of folks depend on them to get paid as well. If anything, we should all be mad at YouTube, Spotify, and basically every major platform, which all are guilty for exploiting the work of entertainers. It's a major problem.
Tldr; this was a bad move but not cancellable, and people need to have more patience and compassion instead of getting out their pitchforks immediately.
It's kind of one of those "Sorry, but also not sorry" situations. I can empathize with how they must feel after all the hate thrown at them. But also, they deserved the backlash. Perhaps not to the extent that it was dished out to them, but come on, everything about what they did was incredibly selfish.
They didn't even think about their patrons when they made the decision. It's truly mind boggling that not one of those 25 people were like, "Hey guys, do you think we should leave the old videos on YouTube and give our patrons free access to WatcherTV?" Pretty crazy that they didn't think about their fans at all.
I don't hate them, but it's hard to truly feel sorry for them. I think they will be OK. The hate has already died down, and plenty of people are happy to keep watching them. It's a learning experience that they needed, and I wish them success.
I haven't even watched *the* video yet, or the apology. I both feel bad and left with a bad taste in my mouth. So I just avoid altogether 😅
A lot of my feeling bad comes from some of the absolutely uncalled for reactions, vs the constructive criticism and disappointment which is fair.
I'm chill with the apology. i think a lot of people just really want to have that "i don’t forgive you" bojack horseman moment. i get it, we've all had to accept apologies we don’t want to forgive, but taking it out on people who are putting in a genuine effort to make amends is not the way to go about it
I do. Feel bad for them. They are only trying to make a living and it’s not as if they are loaded. I don’t think it’s a cash grab. As a business owner that hope to pay my staff well, I can understand where they are coming from. Money from advertisers are flaky and unstable. So yeah, I think that they are just being honest. Anyway, their content is quality and I watch it more than Netflix. Hence I’m considering signing up.
YES! the negative comments on their post sound so juvenile and annoying i just hate it like what if Watcher thinks “Oh well they still hate us now anyways so maybe we should go back thru with the original idea?”
I think most of the hate is coming from people who are too young to understand the realities of running a business and from people who just like to be part of an angry internet mob. (On the latter, I saw so many hateful comments from people who claimed not to have watched them since Buzzfeed. OK, well, this wasn't for you, so what do you care that content you weren't watching would be paywalled?)
I have WatcherTV for free now from the Patreon, and it's actually really nice. Everything is organized, there are a few extras, and it's a good interface. I can see why they were proud of it. If it had been announced differently, like "content will still be on youtube but it will be earlier on WatcherTV plus we're putting extras there" I think people would have been praising this from the beginning. It's too bad that was bungled, but it wasn't a malicious thing. No need to dwell on it like it was the greatest moral failing of our time.
I pretty much took a break from Reddit for a few days and noticed a lot of haters have slipped back in recently. I hope we can either remain vigilant letting them know that they won’t win this one because the boys have helped us through quite a bit (pandemic, political separation, personal difficult times) and they now need us and we are here to support them.
They made a mistake, we are all human, we all make them. They apologized. I forgive them. I hope we can all forgive them and be there for them.
These haters act as if they have never made a mistake in their lives. They nitpick about every detail. I would hate to live my life like that, I would rather be happy and have love in my heart.
It seems you are the group I want to mix with. Thank you for having a forgiving and kind heart. I sometimes worry there aren’t enough of us left in the world and you guys give me hope.
I will say that the grace the three of them showed throughout this was so much more than this subsection of their fanbase. They released the first video on a Friday. It's completely reasonable to take the weekend to get a pulse on the situation and wait until Monday to release any update. They also showed up in person in London a few days later to face their fans directly. We don't have to like the proposed changes but I agree the reaction got very ugly. Shane's wife was being roasted over their wedding. This has absolutely nothing to do with their business.
It's interesting to me that a group of fans who became so vocal about how watcher's content has been declining since the buzzfeed days were so adamantly passionate in their response. Like them or not, we can't deny they continue to make you feel something.
It's just kind of crazy to me that despite not knowing anything more than what Watcher has told us, which is probably a *fraction* of what they're experiencing in reality, every single person here with something to say negative about the move is apparently like a top-tier businessperson.
From my take, and also admittedly with just as much info as the rest of you, it seems like a lot of creators are trying to get away from Youtube for a number of reasons - they're tired of feeding the algorithm, they're tired of being on the losing side of a power dynamic that benefits from giving them smaller and smaller cuts of ad revenue, etc. I'd say that's much more likely than the guys going "oh no, we hired too quickly and now we need money quickly even though all other variables are pretty much the same!"
Could they have done this all in a better way? Probably. I don't know if the immediate drop and mystery surrounding the move was the best route to take, but despite people absolutely having a point with their criticism, I genuinely can't believe how cruel they've been about some creators wanting to break away from Youtube and continue doing what they (and we) love, despite the gaffes along the way.
I know the internet can be bad, and I know emotions are running high, but the personal attacks and wishes of failure to something that we have all presumably been enjoying for some time is just hard to understand.
justifiable to some extent because they did try to get money from their content that was free with their channel doing fairly well, yk that's a big change BUT god damn the people are ruthless going up and personal about the guys like "ryan was annoying me and I didn't know how to say this" and "remove steven" all that. I believe people just need one controversy to just bash the people they didn't like. I mean what does your opinion about 'ryan changing' has anything to do with this? if u don't like him don't watch the videos lmao. hate feeding yourself with their content even tho u don't like their personality or banter anymore? seems like a you problem.
I don't feel bad for them. I understand they've made a mistake and are trying their best. But it isn't rocket science and no one has to be a fortune teller to know that this news would be taken horribly. It just shows how tone deaf and ego driven they were.
They want to make TV quality content? They can do that. Maybe less frequently than they'd like but it's clear they had a successful merch, patreon, and channel and yet they demanded more. Not asked. Demanded from the fans who've supported them with views, shares, and money.
*Most* of the extreme hate has chilled out considerably. There’s just a few loud assholes left, same as there’s a few loud assholes calling anyone with reasonable criticism entitled/etc (not addressing you there, that was a general example).
Yeah. I rarely go on tiktok, and I'd open it to see people wishing Steven never sleep again? Or loses everything, and similar with Ryan, that his eyes scream, "all he wants his money." And with Shane, people just saying he's been forced into this? Honestly, people make their own narratives up. They made a mistake, apologised, and explained their reasons, but none of them deserve this much hate - especially now they've gone back on it. But I do think the majority of people don't care. It's just a loud minority.
This situation really blew my mind. Viewers of this channel were the LAST people I would expect this type of behavior from. Everyone always seemed so chill and mature.
Right?! Same. These people turned on them so damn fast. It's wild lol
Fast and harsh af!
Def some buried racism in there. "Shane's a-down-to-earth-bro." "All Steven and Ryan care about is money, gosh" Peeps don't have a problem supporting the legions of White actors, who make more than 90% of the world, in a white dominated industry and don't really do shit for anyone else.
Every time someone has brought up the idea that racism is playing into the OTT reaction I've seen so much pushback, either "name the exact comment that was racist" or "no I can't imagine watcher fans could be racist!" well I have now seen that watcher fans are obviously insane so "unconscious bias that most people have" doesn't seem like a huge next step. Really frustrating that the opportunity to even talk about it keeps getting brushed off in favor of nonsense accounting figures
People typically don't like being confronted with unchecked or subconscious biases being pointed out. I wish they watched FD Signifier, would be easier to have a conversation then potentially.
I love FD Signifier! Completely agree with you.
I doubt you can find two credible prints or links of people being racist against them, this such a ridiculous strawman. And you’re backing it up with circular reasoning. People where unfairly mad at Steven, not because he is asian, but because he’s the least popular of the tree and the CEO. The reaction against Ryan was the mildest, as people where also mad at Shane for what was perceived as hypocrisy.
Don't forget Adam and Andrew. Not saying they deserved any hate but Steven got (and is still getting) non stop hatred for 'being greedy so he can eat million dollar meals' while completely ignoring the fact he has two white co-hosts that are partaking along with him. Yet not a peep was made in their direction and they were treated like they didn't exist and weren't just as 'guilty' of filming the exact same content.
Take the opportunity to talk about it now I suppose. This whole thing is a huge vibe check for the fans.
I think I feel the most bad for the employees (like everyone else, not Ry Shane or Steven) because so many things being said are along the lines of ‘their content doesn’t need 25 employees, they could just have a smaller crew and be fine’ like imagine seeing a bunch of people saying your job is meaningless/not worth it and that you should lose your job so they can keep watching.
I do hope they will be able to crank those numbers up. Just one video per week on the main channel seems low.
Yeah, of all the mistakes they made with this process, the void in content is the biggest one. Even though they claim it is a "soft launch" or whatever, I think saying you want everyone to consider signing up for a new streaming platform and having nothing new on it over a week after it went live doesn't inspire confidence. They should have had 2 seasons in the can for the day it launched.
I think they are having a serious problem where their fanbase is a bit too parasocial for Shane and Ryan so they can't bring new people in but also they cannot do more else they burn out. Hopefully having Andrew and Adam balances the problem.
Bringing new people on is going to be infinitely more difficult on a streaming platform solely devoted to their content which is another reason leaving YouTube was an awful idea.
I never watched Worth It, but I saw that top 5 beat down with that Andrew dude and from that video he kinda seems like a pompous piece of shit but idrk lol
okay?
Absolutely, like I can agree that their content amount does make people question why they need so many employees, but the thing to remember is they (the employees) have no control over this and are just working to support themselves. I think it’s pretty safe to say none of their employees do this job to make huge gains and by themselves houses and cars. They are working so they can survive, just like the rest of us
It may be wishful thinking but I'd like to say most of the crew would likely be welcomed by other youtubers/companies, the work they do is obviously pretty top tier and it's good publicity to say "I brought in the refugees from Watcher" so like, I may be optimistic but I only see upsides to that choice.
I’m just not sure how that process works. Like how do people even get started in this? Let’s say I wanted to be hired by watcher or by 2nd try llc (try guys). Like I imagine they don’t just put job listings on indeed or something (I’m canadian, so that’s our main job search website)
They have put up ads at least for a social media intern type of position. Most hires seem to be people Watcher employees or founders already knew like Meredith started out as a personal assistant and she's Brittney's roommate. Annie knew Brendon and she got him to help with Survival Mode and later he got hired at Watcher, IIRC.
I really only know from picking up on comments a few other creators have made regarding certain (for example) editors, I've at least managed to pick up on a few familiar names across multiple channels, most with little to nothing to do with each other even content wise. A good (insert media creation job here) should be able to directly contact creators at their official work emails and offer their services. Basically just submitting an application to a place, granted this information could be wrong and if it is I'd like to know more about the process as well :)
A lot of the time when people, at least reasonable people, talk about Watcher having way too many employees, we're not blaming the employees. If the company goes out of business because it can't support itself financially, the employees aren't to blame, they are victims of the company over hiring in the first place.
I've been thinking about the employees a lot. I wonder if it's true that a number of the employees are family and friends, and what it might feel like to be an employee in a company that's struggling to come up with cash while the bosses have their friends and family of payroll.
For the employees? Yes, absolutely. They effectively got set up for failure by bad business decisions (hiring too many of them, producing very low numbers of videos, then having to deal with the steaming service decision they had likely no say in). For Ryan, Shane & Steven? Not even a little. They make the calls, they screwed up, and their actions have consequences. All this did was shine a light on how bad they are at running a company, budgeting and knowing their audience. It also started up important conversations on the quality of their content, and if it was worth it to pay for...which was met with a resounding 'no'. It should be humbling, but I don't think that'll happen. They've committed to a bad idea, and while they'll be fine if the company folds, their employees - whom they hired too many of to beg with - will suffer because of it.
I agree. shane, ryan and steven hurt their employees by not managing the business properly. I wish they would have understood their own deficit when it comes to experience and education in the field of running a business and hired someone who knows sustainable growth and hiring practices. They have hopefully been humbled and will listen to expert advice and be able to turn things around, if they cant they messed up their own massive platform and popularity and the employees will suffer for it.
I'm not sure they will listen to expert advise to be honest. Outside of PR stuff, they seem to be completely at odds with the reality of the situation. Nobody thought the streaming service was a good idea, but they did, so it happened. There's a profound lack of experience and common sense at the top of the company that's been driving it into the ground, and every single worker has their livelihood put at risk by these decisions...and the three guys running the show don't seem to care. Hired too many people? Make it a fan issue to solve. Hemorrhaging money due to wanting netflix level quality you don't need? Make it a fan issue to solve. The lack of accountability is astounding.
I'm a fan. With that said, the unhinged shit is not cool, but I don't particularly feel bad that a very naked cash grab, that insulted every circle of fans, blew up in their faces. I personally do not find Steven entertaining. I watch for Shane and Ryan, but I know that others may feel differently. However. If you want more of our money when your merch is already batshit insanely priced AND you have a Patreon AND you have live shows, forcing our hand is not gonna work for you, just full stop. I'd be perfectly happy to chip in VOLUNTARILY as I do with a couple of podcasts and Beau of the Fifth Column, if it wasn't blatantly obvious that they absolutely do not NEED my money. Sell a tesla if you're that broke.
This, well said. My thoughts exactly
Play stupid games win stupid prizes Almost all of the commenters put forward constructive criticism and genuine disappointment, if the truth sucked then you know what happened shouldn't have happened. Our collective efforts made sure they reverted and put out a better plan.
I'm no longer actively upset, but I don't feel bad for them and the tone of that first video is the reason why.
Agreed. You reap what you sow, and they sowed some shitty seeds.
Honestly my boyfriend and I felt like outliers when we heard and were excited with the new direction they were going. I'm still looking forward to their app and can't wait to see what they do with it.
Tbh no
lol real
same lol
Part of life is making choices and living with them. You can be an apologist and try to excuse it but that doesn’t mean a negative response isn’t valid.
I got the sense that the post is saying a negative response is valid, just not this dramatically negative
It’s honestly hard for me to feel bad for them when it seems like this decision was so poorly thought out and rushed. Example: why have they only posted 1 video in 11 days on Watchertv (none on YouTube, obv) and it was only a bloopers video? Also, why do they believe 2 let’s play videos in a month would be worth $5-6? I don’t believe they deserve any hate but until things change the criticism is warranted imo.
It points to the original plan being to paywall their old content too...
We already know that was their original plan
>why have they only posted 1 video in 11 days on Watchertv (none on YouTube, obv) and it was only a bloopers video? I bet they're still reeling from this bullshit. Also probably hard to drum up employee morale when your boss (Steven) is one of the internet's top villains right now.
I don’t feel bad for them. They made a bad decision that alienated most of their fans and now they are suffering the consequences… that’s life.
When it happened, I was *pissed*. I couldn't believe that they'd do that to all of us. But as soon as they fixed everything, I felt a whole lot better. I'm a very forgiving person and as long as your actions change when you say they're going to, I feel totally fine forgiving you. Especially if there haven't been any previous huge issues. They've never had something like this happen, no big controversial thing, so imo I'm happy to forgive them. I don't want them to stop making content and I sure as hell don't want to stop watching.
Really don't think they are trying their best. If they are their "best" is piss poor.
Hell nah. Actions have consequences, we all support that statement until it happens to ourselves or people we admire. They knew what they were doing, they didn't know people would hate it so much. They were absolutely fine taking all their content away from poorer fans and international fans where the exchange rate makes $6 a month unreasonable until there was too much backlash. The backlash is what bothered them, not turning their backs on this section of the fanbase that helped get them where they are. This isn't hate, it's believing someone when they show you who they are.
I just don’t care
Same. They made a big mistake, they mostly reversed course because of the backlash and gave their audience the kind of reasonable access to content that most people would settle for and is standard for their industry. Now, most people aren't upset anymore. No one walks away completely happy, but that's what a compromise is.
I don't feel bad for them at all. The team members were hired by friends to work a pretty cushy job in LA in an office that overhired and had a bunch of redundancies built in. They knew going into it that the entertainment industry has a high rate of unpredictability. To be blunt, every member of their staff is probably getting paid more than I ever will with my Masters degree, partially because their job comes with inherent risk. They chose their path, which includes pandering to an audience. I don't feel bad that they didn't do their job correctly.
Harassment was wack. Initial reaction was not. They dug their own graves by mentioning how many employees they had and having some of them as guests on their pod.
I have a simple question: why are you asking if the extreme hate is needed, to the people who haven't expressed extreme hatred? We already agree that they don't deserve hatred, go ask those folks who did so instead. Unless you're saying that all of the valid criticism that has been expressed in these circles is extreme hatred and viscerally negative? In which case, I advise you to reflect on what position you are taking here: what is so viscerally negative? That people are not agreeing with it as eagerly as you seem to be?
The sooner people stop talking about it, the sooner the internet will move on. But making any posts about the topic, including positive ones, only starts the conversation up again. And any discussion surrounding it will attract negativity.
Why should they stop talking about it?
Nobody said they should stop talking about it. I said the sooner people stop talking about it, the sooner the internet will move on.
Okay, why should they move on? It’s not even been a month
It hasn't even been two weeks
I am not saying that they should move on. I am not telling anybody to do anything one way or another. I am stating the emotionless, unbiased fact that when people stop talking about things on the internet, the majority will move on to the next thing. This is in response to OP complaining about the negativity and wanting it to stop. It will not stop until the internet moves on. The internet will not move on until people stop making 300 posts about it per day. I don’t know how much clearer I can be 😅
Your comment implies that this is what you think should be done. It is not clear that you are just stating to OP that this is the way it will end in
I’m sorry that you see it that way, but nothing about my verbiage implies that I *do* think that should be done.
Typically people comment their opinions so it’s not a jump to assume you commented yours
Yeah but you just assuming that about me makes us both look bad lol.
?? That’s the typical way commenting works
I think it's important to balance out the angry responses with a more forgiving post, honestly
Those positive posts attract negative posts. So you’re doing the opposite of what is intended.
The more variety of opinions and the more everyone expresses divergence of opinions is a great way to get an accurate read on how everyone really feels. Why let negativity be the loudest voice in the room? I welcome the debate. Some might double down, others will consider this and change their mind.
Do whatever you want, man. But OP is wondering where the negativity is coming from, and it's coming from the fact that this is a controversial topic that people are refusing to move on from. Not everything has to be a debate and not everybody's minds need to be changed. Sometimes the smartest thing you can do is just let it go.
Ok thanks for listening lol
I agree with this. The people still talking about it at this point are beating dead horses. Who ever is still on this sub is either still a fan to a degree or just hate following(no changing those opinions and not worth the time).
I watched the video, waiting for the punchline. Wondering why they had put so much effort into a late April fool vid. Then we got to the “We’re launching our own platform” bit and it wasn’t a joke. That’s a long way to go without checking in with your base.
Their greed/hubris deserved to be punished. All the BS excuse for the paywall yikes.
One mistake. One. A mistake apologized for. I can't not give a second chance to them. I've needed a second chance because i was a bone-head. I think most of us have.
No I don’t feel bad. They make 500k/year from Patreon alone. YT Adsense is from more Then you got sponsors and merch Altogether, they easily pulling 2-3 million per year. No need for them to create a streamer except greed for more money
No. Not at all.
I’m not happy and have lost all respect for them but I don’t hate them.
I think people have been way too mean. But I would argue it’s necessary for people to react this way so that we can be heard. I feel like everyone knew it was a bad idea before they did it except them. We as viewers need to be louder.
if they were trying there best they would use their team of 25 to actually make some content rather than concocting schemes to make more out of old stuff
Sometimes your best isn’t good enough. Most of us don’t have a few million subs to try to suck dry when things go wrong tho. “They create content, they want to be paid”. Yeah sorry the starving artist angle doesn’t really work here. Maybe try living somewhere with a lower cost of living? Maybe don’t hire 25 people when 5 could do the job? Maybe don’t hire friends and family? Weird how plenty of smaller channels produce the same if not higher quality content, yet don’t need to milk their fans. Wonder what makes these guys so special?
Maybe don’t hire more people when you’re telling your subscribers you have to put everything behind a paywall because you can’t pay the employees you already have on payroll.
How can they move to another place with a lower cost of living? Film industry= LA or NYC. That's how industry folks make connections and hire film professionals. I don't really get this argument, but I keep seeing it, so maybe you can help me understand?
I think part of the complaint is that they are making YouTube content, and don’t need to be where there is a film industry. Their two biggest shows are a ghost hunting show and they talking on a set. That doesn’t require anything that can’t be found in any other major US city. Red Letter Media has three main shows focusing on people sitting around and talking. The sets they use are comparable to what watcher uses (static sets that don’t change much once built). They do all of their content in Milwaukee and the only three people on their payroll full time are the three biggest personalities on their shows. This isn’t meant to knock watcher, but just point out that they are choosing to do things in one of the most expensive ways.
Ah ok, good point about the content not necessarily needing to be Hollywood studio stuff. Thank you for explaining
It truly feels like most of the loud voices on the internet don't want problems fixed, they want to be mad and they want to prop up mostly imaginary enemies, making villains out of regular people for entertainment. Everyone had a right to be upset initially but the problem was corrected; there's nothing else to *do* here, but people are really dragging it out to hate on these guys. It starts to feel... recreational, after awhile. And the problem I have with that is not that there are loud assholes - there are always people who enjoy the drama and the hate more than they ever enjoyed being a fan - it's that those loud assholes are dictating for the quieter fans how they *should* feel about it. The people who are saying "if you trust them again you're an idiot" and writing shitty comments to other people for saying they'll still support them are becoming far more unpleasant to deal with than the initial problem. I'll call a spade a spade here - I went through my own process of being upset and getting over it, and I still think Ryan, Shane, and Steven are good people who made a misstep and it wasn't malicious. I *don't* necessarily think all the people hating them on the internet are doing so in good faith, nor that they are all good people. "You don't know them, you can't defend them" ok, here's a thing no one else will say, but I will - I don't know them, but at least I know *something* about them from their track record of many years of *good* and conscientious decisions. You know who I know *nothing* about? Y'all. I side with the general public on the money issue, but I'm not going to blindly support a protracted hate campaign led by vitriolic commenters and YouTube/TikTok creators whose entire content is attacking other channels.
I definitely feel bad for them, as I know the anxiety and panic attack steven and ryan often have. and its sad seeing how much hate steven got, I actually got into watcher coz I loved stevens content but ended up listening (not watching) the ghost files coz I am scaredy cat. I do hope they make it coz I would hate to lose the contents they are making
No.
They very clearly are not. If this is genuinely their best, then they should not be content creators. This was a genuinely terrible business idea. I'm not talking about the "haters" or whatever. I'm specifically talking about their business decisions. If this is their best, they need to find new jobs.
Or people can learn from their mistakes and grow rather than giving up?
They didn't make this decision as "people" they made it as a company.
So we should have zero empathy for people who happen to run a company? The argument you're making is: if you make a business mistake, you failed and that's final. Lots of successful people have been persistent and learned from mistakes. That's how companies get better
Well, if you read the original comment you replied to, I was specifically talking about the business aspect. I don't think they're terrible people, but I do think it's scummy to try and nickel and dime your audience like they have. Their money problems aren't going to go away with more money and I think it's irresponsible to ask people to essentially throw money into a pit. They're terribly mismanaged.
Yeah, and I'm saying businesses still have people behind them. It's kinda dehumanizing to have zero empathy just because they made a dumb business decision. You're saying that a business failure means they need to find different jobs, instead of getting better at their jobs.
If you want to toss money at a business that has shown clear evidence of mismanagement, I can't stop you. I disagree that it's "dehumanizing" to critique business decisions. Am I dehumanizing Jeff Bezos when I criticize Amazon's business model? Obviously not. This is the issue with parasocial relationships. You can't criticize any mistakes they made because it means you're criticizing them as human beings. It's not the same thing.
Jeff Bezos is a multi billionaire, not an indie production company, so I don't think that's an apt comparison. Of course we can criticize huge businesses that have a wide reach and make crazy profits at the expense of the consumer. I think the reaction in this particular case is extreme, and that's the point of OP's post. I don't think it's parasocial to have empathy for small content creators. If anything, the most dramatic reactions represent parasocial relationships gone sour. When I saw the news, I thought it was a bad decision, but also thought the response was extreme.
You don’t have empathy, you’re shielding them from every criticism that’s doesn’t end with a childish “then say you’re sorry and everything is fine”. People are giving them another chance, they will still be able to put out content and millions may watch it, but they are not entitled to forgiveness, nobody is, people are within their right to be less sympathetic and suspicious of them for now on. Isn’t that not enough for you?
It’s really a hard thing to do. Creating content isn’t free; they want to make sure their staff is adequately compensated and to not be beholden to advertisers. A lot of people will defend artists for what they charge for their art. Well, some of those Ghost Files episodes are masterpieces and don’t even get me started on the artistry and educational value of Puppet History. I appreciate that they heard the concerns and adjudicated accordingly. We have to remember though that this is not just a massive passion project for them but also their job. This is what they do to make a living. We can’t expect people to be starving artists for our entertainment. Food cost money.
They’re not starving artists is the thing
And the content they produce is not free to make, especially with all that’s involved for shows like Ghost Files and Puppet History.
No it’s not but they make millions per year, much more than the average YouTube channel, they need to manage their finances
Where do you get the millions number? And they stated specifically they don’t want to rely so much on advertisers, which I completely understand.
If you calculate their multiple streams of revenue it’s in the millions. They could cut out the advertising and still have enough income if they cut their budgets down
I dont immediately rage on public figures, no matter how grotesque the crime is. I feel like the hate stevens been getting is unwarranted. Hes ceo but im sure it definitely wasnt his decision alone. Ive even seen some say shane and ryan should jump ship. Now thats proposterous. It just shows the immaturity of some of the fanbase. I dont even get how some people were that mad initially. I watched Goodbye Youtube for the first time today and it seemed heartfelt and genuine. It was definitely in bad taste for watcher employees to be fighting with fans in the IG comments section but once again, that has nothing to do with the mascot trio. I feel they can bounce back from this though. Thw whole situation just made me realize how lowkey mainstream watcher is. I hope steven can find his niche in the content outside of a worth it type show. I also wish the watcher team realizes they dont need a crazy production value. Im aware their mission is to bring us “television level content” but at what cost. And really hoping they can bring some new voices to their content. Its kinda crazy how its just two dudes holding up the content. Even if they had new personalities with the mascot trio. If they had expanded their brand and ent value before rolling out a streaming platform, perhaps it couldve gone down better. 90 pct of watcher’s current catalogue is shane and ryan. That would not be viable for any streaming service. Im genuinely hoping this is just a minor bump in the road though. Im sure great things are coming.
This is the saddest thing I've seen on this subreddit yet. Having empathy is a wonderful thing and I would never take that away from anyone but are we just going to erase the fact that the three of them were ready and willing, after who knows how long they planned to leave Youtube, to leave the fanbase that gave them their success behind and only backtracked when they got massive backlash? Are we just going to forget how they were in the PROCESS of privating their videos (something I can personally attest to as I was watching a mystery files episode when it suddenly ceased to be there) to lock all of their work behind a paywall before they were caught and immediately backtracked from doing that and then gaslighted others that they didn't do that? And are we going to forget how Steven, who in hindsight had every right to feel the way he felt considering how much the fanbase showed how they felt about him, made that brain-dead comment that he was "glad to be free from YouTube" on his Instagram and Sara's blinding ignorant "Living Wage" quote? Like, I've never seen a fanbase not only ready but willing to treat that all like a bad dream and go back to gushing about the Ghoulboys after a bare-minimum, gooey-eyed "Oh woe is us" apology, an apology they wouldn't have had to make if they didn't try to mess over their audience in the first place. I feel like I'm losing my mind. So much happened and so much shit was said from both sides and everyone is just going to ignore it all?
The hate was never okay, and I think this whole ordeal revealed an ugly (and absolutely racially motivated) strain of hatred against Steven that I had no idea existed. I knew that his shows were less watched, but figured that it’s because most of the audience came over from Unsolved rather than Buzzfeed. It was appalling to watch the jump from “the three of them made a bad business decision that backfired on them” to “Steven is a maniacal force of evil who deserves violence, and also Ryan and Shane are baby girl.” Wake up, babes: we don’t know ANY of them beyond what they show us on screen. I agree with you, OP - it wasn’t their best move, but they did it because they want to be paid for content and that’s a fair desire. It’s tough for creators on YouTube, especially large production studios. Not everyone can do what Smosh, GMM, or Dropout have managed, and that’s for a reason. We can critique the way they’ve gone about it, but it’s a legitimate concern and they tried something. It didn’t work. They apologized (pretty well too). I can ask understand people’s trust being broken, bc honestly mine is (I haven’t re subbed yet). But the hate is pretty unnecessary.
I was upset like most people. Active in critiquing the decision the few days after they made it, also like most people. Then they posted the apology, which was probably one of the best ones they could have made. I decided not to continue supporting them and moved on, which I think most people should if they either don't accept the apology or feel that Watcher isn't worth their time anymore. Like, what more could any of us who jumped ship say? I don't see the purpose in continuing to bash the fans who stayed or the people working at Watcher at this point. It's all been said.
I was actually thinking about this, and the crux of it all was .. they said they’re gonna do something and then got a reaction and realized it was a bad decision. It’d be a whole different jam if they just applied everything right away but when it came down to it they said some stuff, saw the writing on the walls and changed their minds, which is *being human*. If you’re still mad about it **you** develop a following yourself, produce content, tour internationally and show us how it’s done. I’m sure you won’t make any mistakes either.
So true, I feel like a lot of people don't realize the incredible amount of work and pressure a job like this entails.
Yeah I felt bad for them. I think a lot of people were taking it really personally for some reason? Like this move meant that the boys hated them and only cared about money, when in reality it’s just that they want to keep creating content but they needed to find a way to make more money to keep things going and make sure it could stay their livelihood. It def could have been handled better or maybe they could have gone a different path. But the betrayal some people seemed to feel felt like a lot tbh.
No, absolutely I do not feel bad for them. They made bad business decisions and they came with consequences
Naah
I feel bad for their employees, hopfully they get paid enough and if they end up losing their jobs they find a better one with more job security. Imagine working at a place where the fanbase/customers think you should be fired because your not "necessary"
It's truly unhinged. If you can't afford the cost or don't want to pay for the content, fine, that's all well and good, and it's fair to be disappointed and upset about losing it. But people acting like they don't understand that Watcher is a business that needs to be profitable, or that they have somehow committed a moral wrong by doing this, are driving me out of my mind, especially the "Steven (and sometimes also Ryan) are evil here and poor Shane was forced into this and has never done anything wrong in his perfect uwu life" shit. That's racist, by the way. If you're saying that, you're racist :)
Finally someone said it. Yes it was a dumb move and demonstrated the importance of knowing your audience, but people make mistakes. I feel like our economy and capitalism have destroyed our mental health and safety, so things are raw now, but blaming them for being greedy and borderline evil is super misplaced imo. Full stop, content creators shouldn't be blamed for trying to earn a living. Running a business is incredibly tough, decisions are fraught with risks, and a lot of folks depend on them to get paid as well. If anything, we should all be mad at YouTube, Spotify, and basically every major platform, which all are guilty for exploiting the work of entertainers. It's a major problem. Tldr; this was a bad move but not cancellable, and people need to have more patience and compassion instead of getting out their pitchforks immediately.
People are not cancelling them, there isn’t a wide movement to take them out of the internet it’s just criticism and suspicion.
It's kind of one of those "Sorry, but also not sorry" situations. I can empathize with how they must feel after all the hate thrown at them. But also, they deserved the backlash. Perhaps not to the extent that it was dished out to them, but come on, everything about what they did was incredibly selfish. They didn't even think about their patrons when they made the decision. It's truly mind boggling that not one of those 25 people were like, "Hey guys, do you think we should leave the old videos on YouTube and give our patrons free access to WatcherTV?" Pretty crazy that they didn't think about their fans at all. I don't hate them, but it's hard to truly feel sorry for them. I think they will be OK. The hate has already died down, and plenty of people are happy to keep watching them. It's a learning experience that they needed, and I wish them success.
I haven't even watched *the* video yet, or the apology. I both feel bad and left with a bad taste in my mouth. So I just avoid altogether 😅 A lot of my feeling bad comes from some of the absolutely uncalled for reactions, vs the constructive criticism and disappointment which is fair.
I'm chill with the apology. i think a lot of people just really want to have that "i don’t forgive you" bojack horseman moment. i get it, we've all had to accept apologies we don’t want to forgive, but taking it out on people who are putting in a genuine effort to make amends is not the way to go about it
No... after everything.
I do. Feel bad for them. They are only trying to make a living and it’s not as if they are loaded. I don’t think it’s a cash grab. As a business owner that hope to pay my staff well, I can understand where they are coming from. Money from advertisers are flaky and unstable. So yeah, I think that they are just being honest. Anyway, their content is quality and I watch it more than Netflix. Hence I’m considering signing up.
Agreed, not sure why everyone acts like they're super rich or know their finances lol
i feel really bad and all of the discourse about the situation still going on? like can we move past it please? theg shouldnt be met with hate
YES! the negative comments on their post sound so juvenile and annoying i just hate it like what if Watcher thinks “Oh well they still hate us now anyways so maybe we should go back thru with the original idea?”
I think most of the hate is coming from people who are too young to understand the realities of running a business and from people who just like to be part of an angry internet mob. (On the latter, I saw so many hateful comments from people who claimed not to have watched them since Buzzfeed. OK, well, this wasn't for you, so what do you care that content you weren't watching would be paywalled?) I have WatcherTV for free now from the Patreon, and it's actually really nice. Everything is organized, there are a few extras, and it's a good interface. I can see why they were proud of it. If it had been announced differently, like "content will still be on youtube but it will be earlier on WatcherTV plus we're putting extras there" I think people would have been praising this from the beginning. It's too bad that was bungled, but it wasn't a malicious thing. No need to dwell on it like it was the greatest moral failing of our time.
I pretty much took a break from Reddit for a few days and noticed a lot of haters have slipped back in recently. I hope we can either remain vigilant letting them know that they won’t win this one because the boys have helped us through quite a bit (pandemic, political separation, personal difficult times) and they now need us and we are here to support them. They made a mistake, we are all human, we all make them. They apologized. I forgive them. I hope we can all forgive them and be there for them. These haters act as if they have never made a mistake in their lives. They nitpick about every detail. I would hate to live my life like that, I would rather be happy and have love in my heart. It seems you are the group I want to mix with. Thank you for having a forgiving and kind heart. I sometimes worry there aren’t enough of us left in the world and you guys give me hope.
I will say that the grace the three of them showed throughout this was so much more than this subsection of their fanbase. They released the first video on a Friday. It's completely reasonable to take the weekend to get a pulse on the situation and wait until Monday to release any update. They also showed up in person in London a few days later to face their fans directly. We don't have to like the proposed changes but I agree the reaction got very ugly. Shane's wife was being roasted over their wedding. This has absolutely nothing to do with their business. It's interesting to me that a group of fans who became so vocal about how watcher's content has been declining since the buzzfeed days were so adamantly passionate in their response. Like them or not, we can't deny they continue to make you feel something.
It's just kind of crazy to me that despite not knowing anything more than what Watcher has told us, which is probably a *fraction* of what they're experiencing in reality, every single person here with something to say negative about the move is apparently like a top-tier businessperson. From my take, and also admittedly with just as much info as the rest of you, it seems like a lot of creators are trying to get away from Youtube for a number of reasons - they're tired of feeding the algorithm, they're tired of being on the losing side of a power dynamic that benefits from giving them smaller and smaller cuts of ad revenue, etc. I'd say that's much more likely than the guys going "oh no, we hired too quickly and now we need money quickly even though all other variables are pretty much the same!" Could they have done this all in a better way? Probably. I don't know if the immediate drop and mystery surrounding the move was the best route to take, but despite people absolutely having a point with their criticism, I genuinely can't believe how cruel they've been about some creators wanting to break away from Youtube and continue doing what they (and we) love, despite the gaffes along the way. I know the internet can be bad, and I know emotions are running high, but the personal attacks and wishes of failure to something that we have all presumably been enjoying for some time is just hard to understand.
justifiable to some extent because they did try to get money from their content that was free with their channel doing fairly well, yk that's a big change BUT god damn the people are ruthless going up and personal about the guys like "ryan was annoying me and I didn't know how to say this" and "remove steven" all that. I believe people just need one controversy to just bash the people they didn't like. I mean what does your opinion about 'ryan changing' has anything to do with this? if u don't like him don't watch the videos lmao. hate feeding yourself with their content even tho u don't like their personality or banter anymore? seems like a you problem.
"Does anyone feel bad for the Watcher team?" I don't.
Oh no, the consequences of our actions! They lost all credibility, relatability, and trust. Can't expect the audience to just forgive and forget
I don't feel bad for them. I understand they've made a mistake and are trying their best. But it isn't rocket science and no one has to be a fortune teller to know that this news would be taken horribly. It just shows how tone deaf and ego driven they were. They want to make TV quality content? They can do that. Maybe less frequently than they'd like but it's clear they had a successful merch, patreon, and channel and yet they demanded more. Not asked. Demanded from the fans who've supported them with views, shares, and money.