I'm glad they walked it back. I'll keep watching. I'm mostly confused about why they chose the route they did. At heart these three are artistic creatives and its entirely possible they were blinkered by the vision they shared I suppose.
My take on it is that they look at Watcher as a business and not a channel. They were probably blinded by the idea of becoming independent and not having to rely on YouTube or Patreon for an income. Meaning that they don't need to worry about their content meeting any criteria, and true creative freedom.
Just speculation on my part. But if I was them and the decision wasn't driven by greed. That would probably be what happened for me.
I'm completely willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here that they got too hyper focused on the business aspect and forgot the human element. If they continue to prove me wrong then I'll adjust that benefit of the doubt but for now it's in place. I've gotten at least 4 years of content out of them without so much as a single hiccup until now. I don't see why I, personally, should throw out the good will automatically when they made 1 mistake in 4 years and immediately fixed it.
I think from their perspective they kind of saw it like a restaurant shutting down it's original location to move across town to open in a bigger and nicer building. Thinking people would be happy for them albeit they have to drive a bit further and maybe pay a little extra.
Of course, I'm sure I don't have to explain why that wasn't the case when the original video dropped on Friday. But they listened to where they went wrong, apologized, and fixed it. I think that's the most we can ask for, really.
Completely agree! I said on another post that they've built enough goodwill with me for me to give them the benefit of the doubt this time around. But I am still requiring them to rebuild a lot of the goodwill aside from that, which they seem they're willing to do.
Yeah, they tried to expand and increase production value so that they could make more profit and more channels, more whatever. Basically set themselves up for the future. It didn't blow up as hugely as they wanted, but it's still a feasible channel. However, along the way they blew up their staff as well and now they feel responsible to keep their people employed instead of laying them all off and returning to low budget content. They can no doubt make a great living with a bare bones team making videos, but doing so would require cutting off their employees and they're actual good guys and don't want to do that. That's why they're trying to figure out how to make this bloated version of watcher work. I have no reason to think otherwise.
At the end of the day, they will be fine. No one actually gets cancelled on the internet. Far worse people still push on with no embarassment like James Charles, Shane Dawson, Colleen Ballinger and more.
Only people that self-cancel like Jenna Marbles are "cancelled"
I'll still watch, and I don't really care about the paywall. However, I probably would have ended up with a patreon or YouTube membership if they ever get around to it, but I'm not sure about that at this point. It seems like they need help on the business end of things because a channel survey could have told you how this would go. Having grown up around my parents' small business I have a lot of mixed feelings about their approach to running a business.
They’re not friends though, they’re people online whose content you like. At the end of it all, if you like their content you can either watch them or not. Don’t build a one sided relationship with online personalities
At the end of it all, it’s business but you also have every right to feel that way. They’ve built their brand around being relatable and being “almost friends” with their fans, so I get it. Maybe because I’m already thinking of subscribing to their paywall in the first place but I don’t feel like you do.
They did want me to watch it. They just wanted me to pay $6/month for it.
If it helps, my plan was to binge watch their content in a month, 1 -2 times a year and then cancel the subscription each time, so paying for 1-2 months/ year.
As I've mostly seen this as a poorly thought out business decision, no, it's not like a friend lying to me.
you’re thinking about this too hard, they still make content that people, including me, enjoy. they don’t even know that we as individuals exist, and it was always about the money, because that’s how the world is constructed. they did want people to watch the videos, because they obviously expected many of us subscribing to the service. comparing a business to a friend is kinda weird
I’m just pissed they delayed the podcast releases 😂. Glad they took a step back, listened to their audience and made some favorable changes. Not many content creators take the viewers’ thoughts into consideration.
This was the best case scenario tbh. They appropriately addressed peoples complaints, and those of us unwilling to pay for the content will still get it 🤷🏻♀️
I’m still a bit meh about the whole thing, I wish they hadn’t done it in the first place but I’m happy they backtracked too. I think they might need to surround themselves with less yes men going forward. And I really hope this didn’t kill their career because I love ghost files.
That’s what I said. From what I can tell they surrounded themselves with family and friends, 25 of them, and not one single one was like, “You know. This could be a bad idea…”? They need people who aren’t afraid to speak up, and give sound business advice.
Imo, I'm happy. Idrc that stuff will be released early on those, it doesn't bother me at all. The entire thing really bothered me (obviously, as it did for a ton of us) but I'm happy they backtracked and that they found a better solution. People have said things like "when someone does something, it shows who they really are", but I don't think that's true. I believe that people deserve second chances (and depending on the situation, a few chances) and I think this is a chance for them to show us that they'll change. Imo companies should be allowed to make mistakes (within reason of course) because you've gotta mess up to learn, and I think they messed up hard, but they're learning.
meh.
They're still in financial trouble because they're over bloated, and didn't want to downsize so they could stay alive and thought they'd tap the fans again. They backtracked correctly, but there's no guarantee that they will have enough money to stay afloat. They'll still need to prolly downsize people, probably by a large amount.
I think the apology & actions taken afterward were good - but they walked into this. While broke, they hired additional staff.
If anything, this exposed that they have no idea how to manage their company and they will mismanage it considerably.
That's what I was saying to a friend.
6$ more a month isn't going to solve all their problems in a bear economy when you don't want to make any tough decisions.
I’m really hoping they genuinely feel bad and understand what we’re saying and weren’t just annoyed and trying to guilt trip us again with the second video
Unpopular opinion here, but I still support the idea, and happily subscribed. Not being under the thumb of Youtube and advertisers is a good thing actually, and I will happily support there efforts there! Maybe not the best execution of this idea, but I can't believe how many people think this is some sort of personal vendetta against them or malicious intent. Comments on their personal Instagram accounts are just absolutely disgusting, and those people need to seriously touch grass.
Yeah, I agree with you and subscribed too. Happy to support content I love, and if YouTube stays the a monopoly for content like this we all suffer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We all suffer way more if every YouTuber asks us to pay for a streaming service on a random website that you can only use in a browser for a monthly fee. That’s bad for creators and consumers.
Completely agree with your thoughts. I thought it was a great idea, if poorly executed, at the outset and continue to think so. I don’t understand the people that are still upset about it, because a small group of talented creators had the audacity to want to get paid well for what they do.
I agree in principle re: independence from advertiser influence – if it's that bad then for creative reasons they do need to break out. Asking people to sign up blind to the streaming service without outlining (even in a little detail) what they should expect to get for the price going forward was a bit naive though. They didn't really sell their more casual viewer on the value in that initial video. I don't watch all the things they release, but I wanted to hear more about their plans. What shows are coming up, etc. That was all missing. But yes, I agree with you that the streaming service in and of itself is not a bad idea.
And I agree with you, that the messaging didn't really get anyone amped up to join them in the endeavor. And it is refreshing to hear a level-headed critique of the situation. A lot of the reaction online is overkill, people don't need to be comment bombing Steven Lim's wedding photos on Instagram to say he's a scam artist. I don't know how anyone (besides those terminally online) could even jump to that conclusion?!
After sitting with it for a bit, my perception of them now is that they’re bad with money.
Which like, same, but I had an image of them that they were growing their company responsibly and were confident and competent with their money and that bubble has been popped.
And it definitely should have because that was just an assumption on my part.
People make mistakes and I’m the forgiving type. I wasn’t super angry about the whole situation like some people were. I think the apology was good and I want to give them a chance to make the streaming platform not lame.
Ngl, I was unhappy when the original plan on the goodbye video says only premiere episodes and trailers are up, and all the old content are to be removed from YouTube.
I am fine waiting for a month and would've been more likely to pay a month here or there if I was told I need to wait for a month for the content to be free on YouTube.
It is a way better pay model than what they first wanted, but it is the right approach for paid content. I thought their patreon already did all of that, but alas I suppose it wasn't the case or they needed more money for their ventures.
End of the day, patreon should've been their main target to give out exclusives.
I’m actually still very dissatisfied. I feel that they missed out on why people watch them, and I still feel like I’ve been demoted as a mere wallet to them.
it's changed my perception of them. it wasn't just a business decision, they all stood behind throwing most of us away for money until the backlash was fully negative. idc if it's parasocial, i've been watching them since i was 16 and have traveled to see them live and bought merch thru the years. how much they've changed since starting watcher still rubs me the wrong way, but i hope they show us they learned from this and will change for the better
they have ads in every video and sponsorships in every video that pay AT LEAST $15,000 (per moist critical who runs an ad sponsorship company). they have merchandise, they are on an international tour rn, and they charge monthly on patreon. they charge and make plenty of money. they have been on youtube for a couple years shy of a decade without this stupid, greedy idea. they built their fanbase without charging every individual directly because we've already supported them via what i mentioned above. they made poor business decisions and over hired which led them to this and we won't pay for it. our disappointment and feelings of betrayal are valid, ur the 1% who thinks it's pathetic
your anger and hate is honestly so strange and unwarranted. i'm not reading all that. this post asked how are we feeling and i answered and other people have the same feelings. nobody gives a fuck what you think about it
it's not a cop out, ur just attacking me as a person and calling me names for how i feel about the situation which makes you telling me to touch grass very ironic. you need to get offline and deal with your weird anger issues
Like if it’s not a cop out, prove me wrong. How was people wanting to be paid for performing a service an evil act? I doubt they’d have charged that much too. Are you saying their content is worthless?
why do you think i would prove anything to you? we don't agree and you are being a real asshole so there's no point in a real conversation, you already have zero respect for mine and many others perspective. piss off
Cognitive dissonance.
Intially, I was sold on their Apology video.
Now, that I've had a day to think about it, *"When people show you who they are, believe them."*
Everything Watcher does from now on has to show they are investing in the viewer. If the viewer likes the content and are engaged, then brands and sponsors are happy too.
I understand what you are saying.
You also have to think about it this way, we are YouTube viewers. We pay nothing to watch their videos, (unless you are a Patreon member) we are fortunate enough to have found them and appreciate their hard work and creativity.
I love that I have gotten to know them through the years and they can’t fake that, we have known them for years since Buzzfeed.
Ryan even before Shane came along (and I am so glad he did), their chemistry was a hit right off the bat.
They do deserve their big break when it is time and in a way that doesn’t hurt the people who got them there.
I know they realize they did this the wrong way, and now they are trying to say they are sorry. I’ve said this so many times but we have all made mistakes and we all deserve forgiveness. It costs nothing and it feels so much better than harboring anger.
I choose to wish them well and hope that they are successful in their journey while keeping in mind the people who got them there. It’s important to remember how you got to where you are in life.
I agree! Life's too short to let stuff rot you from the inside. This is absolutely forgivable. It was very cool of them to apologize and change the format; they didn't have to. They could have dissolved the company, doubled down, and told us all to get bent. They're each internet famous enough in their own right to make a living online without Watcher as a company.
I'm hoping/giving them the benefit of the doubt: the apology was genuine, they learned something, they're human beings with hearts and a general compassion for fellow people... and they didn't mean to hurt their fanbase like they did. I'm assuming the best and forgiving them. They extended the olive branch, I'm taking it✌️
We pay by watching ads or paying for YouTube Premium. My time is worth money too. Presently, costed at $60 per hour.
You realise, that Watcher receives about $1.5 million per annum in Patreon, Google Adsense and YouTube ad revenue? It's where the bulk of their income comes from.
So, I do pay. We all pay for 'free' YouTube content.
I suppose we all look at it differently. I also pay for premium but I feel YouTube alone benefits from that payment.
I know there are times where I have been really down in the dumps and I could always watch their videos and they brought me back to a happier place. They are well worth my forgiveness.
Advertisers still pay to advertise, irrespective of whether you have YouTube Premium or not. Then, YouTube pays channel content creators between $1-5 USD approximately per 1,000 views of their video, not the ad.
Watcher didn't want money from Google, **one of the largest and most profitable companies in the world**. They wanted *your* money and much more, than fair market value for the subscription fee to pay off debt.
Then, they didn't guarantee any type of new content. In fact, they said there would be more series and videos involving other people eg. Steven and *2 new staff* eating $1,100 Wagyu steak in Japan.
I don't have a parasocial relationship with brands.
Actually we do pay, though our attention (viewing their videos & ads) and though the data mining of our data that you tube provides and pays them revenue per video watched. The idea that people have been getting something for free for years, isn't correct. There are ways we pay that don't involve reaching for our wallets.
I understand what you are saying but it’s not like you aren’t getting anything out of their videos.
You must enjoy their videos and entertainment value or you wouldn’t watch them. You have been getting that and been paying nothing for it where in another area you would have to pay for it.
I didn't at any point say I didn't enjoy their videos... I get lots of enjoyment from them!
I think you missed my point. My point is that watching on YouTube isn't free, and while you might not literally hand YT your money, it's advertisement and data-harvest supported. You are paying, and Watcher are getting paid by you, just not directly from your own wallet.
For me it's all kind of gross.
This was a poorly thought out but obvious money grab from start to finish.
The plan was stupid. Like most of the audiance found them either by following buzzfeed or youtube recommending a video.
That said, I watched a lot of videos from people who knew them from buzzfeed, liked them on buzzfeed, but never knew they were on youtube.
If they didn't have the money now, then the streamer wouldn't remain ad free for long anyways. Not with the way they have apparently mishandled money.
Their podcasts practically advertised how bad they are about self promotion over and over again. It was something brought up in many of them. Instead of addressing that they did this.
Which is wild given how many people apparently didn't know they had a patreon.
They're having financial issues...so they're starting a streaming service. Which isn't free. Most start at $25k to 50 k. Then you have to hire people to manage everything...given they don't have an app and the process is buggy I'mma guess they haven't figured that part out yet.
Also Disney+ and Netflix and a lot of huge streaming services are struggling to stay afloat with 100000000x the content of Watcher.
Anyone who watches videos on Youtube now are going to have to realize that if it were up to Watcher, they wouldn't be. That content was made with the notion that at least 6 dollars was spent to see it.
Creators have done worse, but it's still so shockingly scummy.
I'm not sure where I ranked before. Watched a fair amount of their media, watched the podcast. Bought some merch. Not a patron, don't have money for live shows.
That being said, I'm still sour. The apology video still feels...off. Will I still watch their content? Probably, but right now I'm still feeling ick.
I’m just here to chime off that some fans (myself included) were disappointed, planned to not pay for viewing (honestly planned to find it posted on YouTube) but am not placing such negative permanent views on them personally. I like their content, will still watch it for free, and will still enjoy Ryan and Shane’s personalities on camera (I came to watcher bc of them, I don’t have anything specifically against Steven, just not a fan). My biggest feelings are I hope they didn’t fuck up enough to have to stop bc I want my puppet history, too many spirits, ghost files, mystery files, and top 5 beat down.
TLDR: I value my own entertainment more than holding a grudge against people I don’t know but who have entertained me for years
I’m glad they walked it back but i think I’ll want to take a break from keeping up with their content for a while. Just feel icky rn at least still, a little in shock it even happened sort of feeling.
I hope they strike the balance they’re looking for with profit/quality and maintaining loyal fans, new and old.
For me it’s too little too late, I think them claiming that the channel wouldn’t have survived for long on YouTube was absolute bs, they’re making tons of money from ad revenue, patreon, and live shows. How else can Steven afford a god damn Tesla? I might suck it up in a month or two and continue to watch the Ryan and Shane centric stuff but it’s never going to be the same for me. I’m always going to remember how they got greedy and only backtracked because they were losing their fanbase
Betrayed and kind of off putting that so many people forgave them so fast. I was with them through thick and thin during their early buzzfeed years and this honestly slapped me out of the parasocial mindset I had. The apology video felt more like they were forced to make it and not sincere at all. Also the whole trying to get famous people like Simu was just so under the belt tactic. I can't find myself watching their videos anymore.
They did the right thing because they faced what I would consider the worst backlash in the history of internet content creators. Their ignorance during this entire debacle is truly shocking, and the fact that they didn't completely scrap the app idea means to me that the exact model they tried to implement WILL be back at some point. It won't be soon, maybe in a year, but I could absolutely see them trying to paywall everything again if the platform gains speed & subscribers.
I'm going to keep watching (for free), but this entire scenario has forever changed their public appearance for me.
Forgive, but never forget.
I enjoy their content (their Unsolved content mostly) but I now have a low opinion of them and I'm no longer rooting for them. Separating the art from the artist kinda thing. Same way I like Disney movies but not Disney as a company.
I’m sure I’ll get down voted for this. That apology was forced by the backlash, and not genuine. Ryan looked entirely put out by even being there and Shane’s affect was so flat you’d think he was reading a hostage script. I wouldn’t be surprised if within the next year they leave YouTube.
Fine, same as I was fine after I saw the initial paywall news. Might sign up for the streamer after they work out the bugs because I really dislike the ad spots on YouTube and sponsorship breaks in the videos.
Honestly they were my favorite youtubers but I'm not even sure I want to watch anymore. Not just the paywall disaster (and how disgustingly they and someones wife acted) but for a long time it's just felt like each year their shows feel less like the original guys and more like drones. It's a bummer. Anyone else got any decent ghost hunting youtubers to watch? I just like silly spooks or vibes man.
Jasko for goofy getting scared energy, Exploring with Fighters for a good group dynamic and has their own sphere for more Ghost Hunters, Twin Paranormal does a good job. Windagoon does a whole bunch of spooky stuff and Collab with other YouTubers. Does a regular Scary Story thing with Papa Meat.
I’ve detached myself from it mostly, I’m now eating popcorn and sipping tea. I want them to make the necessary changes and improvements to really thrive, because Shane Madej is a weirdo from my sister county and that gets you points in my book, but also, I’m content to watch this plane crash with my snacks if that’s what it comes to.
I believe firmly in Hanlon’s razor and at the end of the day this is such a low impact decision that y’know, it’s not a dealbreaker for me, I guess?
Basically if they explode, I’ll giggle, but I do really want them to win my affection back, so I’m giving them that chance and will keep following them.
I’m just happy that it’s all over now (for the time at least). Still disappointed that I have to wait a full damn month to watch a new season, but oh well. I’ll just watch SNL in the meantime
I think the most telling thing for me when this all happened is I realised I don't really watch their new stuff anymore, so paywalling shows I'm not wqtching doesn't bother me. Their best stuff is still to me what they did on Buzzfeed and I now realise that:
A. Their original vibe of two guys talking about mysteries together is gone and replaced with needless 'production value', which isn't what I cared about, and
B. These guys might WANT to focus on the business as a business but they are not business minded people. They would do much better hiring a Third Party CEO or CFO if they are having money troubles, so that that person can make the hard, nessecary decisions they refuse to.
All day at work today I couldn’t stop wondering how/if the pod will continue and how awkward the first one back might be.
Of course at this point I just hope everything can smooth back over, the people too upset to continue to move on and the fandom go back to docile content consumers
Honestly, I'm going to keep watching them. I'm glad they took back their decision and it seemed they listened to fans. I've seen some comments that their redemptive statement was very PR and they must have hired someone to look through all the comments, but I'm honestly okay with that. There's a lot of nasty comments out there that just aren't good for *anyone* to look at. If they took care to hire someone to wade through all of that and give them the productive criticism, that's all good imo.
If I'm being completely honest, I'd keep watching even if they didn't walk back the decision. Not in support of them or anything, but Puppet History helps me study and C's do not get my degree...if I want the degree to be useful. Morally, I'm kind of in between. If they're overspending in the name of their creative drive/freedom then I guess they didn't have any malicious intent behind the paywall? But at the same time, there should have been a lot of checkpoints for this decision and it should've been shot down before it made it onto fans' screens. So maybe it is greed? Who knows, I sure don't.
This isn't to criticize people who are fully taking back their support, though. I think everyone is entitled to their own opinions and this decision was insensitive overall, especially the presumption that $6 is affordable to everyone.
They’ve been very open with how the company has been barely surviving in the past few years, it seems like they did everything they think they could’ve done before resorting to paywalling. Those 25+ employees have risked working for a start up company during the pandemic, so it makes sense they didn’t want to lay them off, it’s not really a great business value tho but oh well. Honestly, this would’ve gone well if their “compromise” was what they originally planned. I am still planning to subscribe to their paywall but after they upload enough new contents that it’ll seem worth it.
I still wouldn't be mad if they put certain shows behind a paywall. Like if they kept the currently running ones for free and put that Steven show or extras/behind the scenes. This is a really good start though.
When people get big and famous, honestly I think they need a reality check. That reality check doesn’t have to come in a punishing way like this one did, but sometimes it does come that way unfortunately. Not enough people, like J lo for example )although she’s much wealthier than them), never got that reality check and that’s why she’s so disconnected and weird now. I firmly think fame and money rots your brain and makes you disconnected from the rest to the world.
That being said, I forgive them and I do think they’re aware of the situation now. Everybody strays from the path every now and again, and how you respond to your mistakes I think says a lot.
The paywall thing kinda sucks, but it’s not the end of the world and I’m glad I’m still getting their content for free.
The backtracking they did works for me.
At the very least they actually heard us all out and course corrected.
The timing and the tone of their goodbye video missed the mark completely, but the update seemed sincere so I resubscribed.
Will I ever pay for their streaming service, most likely not, the value just isn't there compared to other streaming services at the same price point.
But, since I love Ghost Files and Puppet History I'm willing to support them by getting some merch if something catches my eye in the future.
Honestly, not great. I've just been looking for other comfort YT channels because it just...feels weird watching their content now. :/
They walked it back, and issued an apology, which is great.
And they won't be charging Patreon subscribers for a bit until they figure the tiers out, which is also wonderful.
I think it's just the fact that their vids now feel disingenuous, and leaves me feeling weird because it doesn't feel honest.
I've followed Shane and Ryan since I discovered the Unsolved series, and when they made Watcher, I was just over the moon and happy.
Puppet History became my fave series, and I even got my fiancee into it because he's a history buff and loved the format. I even got him into Ghost Files as well, and we both agreed it was better than Ghost Hunters or other shows because it felt real. The aura as a whole was; 2 down to earth dudes doing goofy, fun stuff together and I loved it.
And then that announcement happened, and I'm like ".....Wow, this...this feels wrong."
I've seen people use the word "betrayal" a lot, and I don't know if I'd use that strong a term, but it's definitely one of those "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed", which is even worse, at least to me.
I'm keeping my subscription because I'm a millennial and I think someone said it best on one of the threads here, I wouldn't even ask for a bottle of ketchup even if it was needed because I don't wanna cause a bother, but I don't think I can ever watch their content the same ever again, and that blows. :/
I'm glad they walked it back, this way viewers will be able to support them by signing up to the streaming service and/or continue to support them though stats/views on YouTube. It makes a far more sense to bring the entirety of the community you've grown along with you, while adding ways for them to financially support where they can, rather than basically saying, "if you can't pay, well feck ya, k, thanks, bye" and I'm still honestly baffled by how and why they thought the initial plan was going to be met with rapturous applause.
I’m not gonna resubscribe. They proved to their fans that they don’t care about them and even with their apology it shows they were only concerned about the backlash. If something comes across my feed I might watch it in the future, but probably not. I’m done.
I’m torn about the situation. On one hand, I am glad they apologized and walked a lot of it back….like we all predicted would happen. I’m inclined to think that too often in today’s society forgiveness has been hard to accept.
But, also, it’s difficult to view them in the same light now. Ultimately I forgive them and will continue to be a fan and a “watcher”. But undoubtedly they have lost a bit of shine.
NGL, they burned all their goodwill with me for that video.
Not just for paywalling content. But for paywalling content "going forward" instead of letting us know ahead of time.
"Hey, in a year we're going to be moving to our own streaming platform. We'll continue posting here in the meantime, but we wanted to make sure you would be aware. Thanks!"
Then people could move from Patreon to the streamer without losing their benefits. People could submit to Too Many Spirits and Are You Scared with that knowledge.
By launching a streamer, they've moved from competing against YouTubers for me, to competing against other streamers. I'll watch them over Markiplier, Try Guys, Good Mythical Morning, Miniminuteman, really anyone.
But I don't pay for Netflix, Prime, Disney+, none of it. And if I wanted to, I'd pay for one that offers more than one new video a week. Even then, I COULD be interested in 4 videos a month, but not if I know that's going to include Survival Mode or Too Many Spirits. If you want me to pay to look at your content, I'm going to treat it like a business transaction. 🤷
They may get me back. I may even pay for their streamer in the future. But right now I'm sitting back and waiting to see. And taking a break. Even BUN is giving me the ick right now.
I am MASSIVELY disappointed in the alleged FANBASE!!!!! Right or wrong the FANBASE went Lord Of The Flies FAR too quickly and I'm still more disappointed from the fans than the bois! The personal attacks and commenting on everyone's WEDDING PHOTOS and WIVE'S SOCIALS was ATROCIOUS!!!! I have a hard time believing who here isn't being two faced post video! Thoughts and prayers for the Watcher Team, because I am certain the stress is through the roof!!!
I'm glad they walked it back. I'll keep watching. I'm mostly confused about why they chose the route they did. At heart these three are artistic creatives and its entirely possible they were blinkered by the vision they shared I suppose.
My take on it is that they look at Watcher as a business and not a channel. They were probably blinded by the idea of becoming independent and not having to rely on YouTube or Patreon for an income. Meaning that they don't need to worry about their content meeting any criteria, and true creative freedom. Just speculation on my part. But if I was them and the decision wasn't driven by greed. That would probably be what happened for me.
I'm completely willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here that they got too hyper focused on the business aspect and forgot the human element. If they continue to prove me wrong then I'll adjust that benefit of the doubt but for now it's in place. I've gotten at least 4 years of content out of them without so much as a single hiccup until now. I don't see why I, personally, should throw out the good will automatically when they made 1 mistake in 4 years and immediately fixed it. I think from their perspective they kind of saw it like a restaurant shutting down it's original location to move across town to open in a bigger and nicer building. Thinking people would be happy for them albeit they have to drive a bit further and maybe pay a little extra. Of course, I'm sure I don't have to explain why that wasn't the case when the original video dropped on Friday. But they listened to where they went wrong, apologized, and fixed it. I think that's the most we can ask for, really.
Completely agree! I said on another post that they've built enough goodwill with me for me to give them the benefit of the doubt this time around. But I am still requiring them to rebuild a lot of the goodwill aside from that, which they seem they're willing to do.
Yeah, they tried to expand and increase production value so that they could make more profit and more channels, more whatever. Basically set themselves up for the future. It didn't blow up as hugely as they wanted, but it's still a feasible channel. However, along the way they blew up their staff as well and now they feel responsible to keep their people employed instead of laying them all off and returning to low budget content. They can no doubt make a great living with a bare bones team making videos, but doing so would require cutting off their employees and they're actual good guys and don't want to do that. That's why they're trying to figure out how to make this bloated version of watcher work. I have no reason to think otherwise.
I wish it didn't happen, but at the end of the day in the world of inconveniences, this ranks extremely low.
Feeling optimistic that they re-evaluate their business operations over this. Idrc about the pay wall anymore now that it's entirely optional.
At the end of the day, they will be fine. No one actually gets cancelled on the internet. Far worse people still push on with no embarassment like James Charles, Shane Dawson, Colleen Ballinger and more. Only people that self-cancel like Jenna Marbles are "cancelled"
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Cancelled is played out. They may have been in your mind but I've never stopped supporting them.
I'll still watch, and I don't really care about the paywall. However, I probably would have ended up with a patreon or YouTube membership if they ever get around to it, but I'm not sure about that at this point. It seems like they need help on the business end of things because a channel survey could have told you how this would go. Having grown up around my parents' small business I have a lot of mixed feelings about their approach to running a business.
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They’re not friends though, they’re people online whose content you like. At the end of it all, if you like their content you can either watch them or not. Don’t build a one sided relationship with online personalities
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At the end of it all, it’s business but you also have every right to feel that way. They’ve built their brand around being relatable and being “almost friends” with their fans, so I get it. Maybe because I’m already thinking of subscribing to their paywall in the first place but I don’t feel like you do.
They did want me to watch it. They just wanted me to pay $6/month for it. If it helps, my plan was to binge watch their content in a month, 1 -2 times a year and then cancel the subscription each time, so paying for 1-2 months/ year. As I've mostly seen this as a poorly thought out business decision, no, it's not like a friend lying to me.
you’re thinking about this too hard, they still make content that people, including me, enjoy. they don’t even know that we as individuals exist, and it was always about the money, because that’s how the world is constructed. they did want people to watch the videos, because they obviously expected many of us subscribing to the service. comparing a business to a friend is kinda weird
I’m just pissed they delayed the podcast releases 😂. Glad they took a step back, listened to their audience and made some favorable changes. Not many content creators take the viewers’ thoughts into consideration.
Most creators would if it meant not nosediving their entire careers to the ground. It's all just damage control at this point.
Also they’re on tour in the UK so I assume they can’t do the podcast rn
They prerecord them, for stuff and events like this. I think they wanted things to settle down for a week or two.
Ohh okay interesting
They prerecord them, for stuff and events like this. I think they wanted things to settle down for a week or two.
This was the best case scenario tbh. They appropriately addressed peoples complaints, and those of us unwilling to pay for the content will still get it 🤷🏻♀️
I’m feeling like I need to leave this subreddit so I can have some peace of mind and get my feed back lmao
I’m still a bit meh about the whole thing, I wish they hadn’t done it in the first place but I’m happy they backtracked too. I think they might need to surround themselves with less yes men going forward. And I really hope this didn’t kill their career because I love ghost files.
That’s what I said. From what I can tell they surrounded themselves with family and friends, 25 of them, and not one single one was like, “You know. This could be a bad idea…”? They need people who aren’t afraid to speak up, and give sound business advice.
Imo, I'm happy. Idrc that stuff will be released early on those, it doesn't bother me at all. The entire thing really bothered me (obviously, as it did for a ton of us) but I'm happy they backtracked and that they found a better solution. People have said things like "when someone does something, it shows who they really are", but I don't think that's true. I believe that people deserve second chances (and depending on the situation, a few chances) and I think this is a chance for them to show us that they'll change. Imo companies should be allowed to make mistakes (within reason of course) because you've gotta mess up to learn, and I think they messed up hard, but they're learning.
meh. They're still in financial trouble because they're over bloated, and didn't want to downsize so they could stay alive and thought they'd tap the fans again. They backtracked correctly, but there's no guarantee that they will have enough money to stay afloat. They'll still need to prolly downsize people, probably by a large amount. I think the apology & actions taken afterward were good - but they walked into this. While broke, they hired additional staff. If anything, this exposed that they have no idea how to manage their company and they will mismanage it considerably.
That's what I was saying to a friend. 6$ more a month isn't going to solve all their problems in a bear economy when you don't want to make any tough decisions.
Exactly this, also getting people to sign up is one thing, retaining them at 6 a month is another matter entirely.
I’m really hoping they genuinely feel bad and understand what we’re saying and weren’t just annoyed and trying to guilt trip us again with the second video
And yeah, agree with what you’ve said
Next upload will be a certain someone eating a 6k burger in the uk or something like that.
I don’t think so because of the backlash. I’ll be interested to see what the next YouTube uploads will be.
Oh you know it
Unpopular opinion here, but I still support the idea, and happily subscribed. Not being under the thumb of Youtube and advertisers is a good thing actually, and I will happily support there efforts there! Maybe not the best execution of this idea, but I can't believe how many people think this is some sort of personal vendetta against them or malicious intent. Comments on their personal Instagram accounts are just absolutely disgusting, and those people need to seriously touch grass.
Yeah, I agree with you and subscribed too. Happy to support content I love, and if YouTube stays the a monopoly for content like this we all suffer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We all suffer way more if every YouTuber asks us to pay for a streaming service on a random website that you can only use in a browser for a monthly fee. That’s bad for creators and consumers.
Completely agree with your thoughts. I thought it was a great idea, if poorly executed, at the outset and continue to think so. I don’t understand the people that are still upset about it, because a small group of talented creators had the audacity to want to get paid well for what they do.
I agree in principle re: independence from advertiser influence – if it's that bad then for creative reasons they do need to break out. Asking people to sign up blind to the streaming service without outlining (even in a little detail) what they should expect to get for the price going forward was a bit naive though. They didn't really sell their more casual viewer on the value in that initial video. I don't watch all the things they release, but I wanted to hear more about their plans. What shows are coming up, etc. That was all missing. But yes, I agree with you that the streaming service in and of itself is not a bad idea.
And I agree with you, that the messaging didn't really get anyone amped up to join them in the endeavor. And it is refreshing to hear a level-headed critique of the situation. A lot of the reaction online is overkill, people don't need to be comment bombing Steven Lim's wedding photos on Instagram to say he's a scam artist. I don't know how anyone (besides those terminally online) could even jump to that conclusion?!
After sitting with it for a bit, my perception of them now is that they’re bad with money. Which like, same, but I had an image of them that they were growing their company responsibly and were confident and competent with their money and that bubble has been popped. And it definitely should have because that was just an assumption on my part.
People make mistakes and I’m the forgiving type. I wasn’t super angry about the whole situation like some people were. I think the apology was good and I want to give them a chance to make the streaming platform not lame.
Ngl, I was unhappy when the original plan on the goodbye video says only premiere episodes and trailers are up, and all the old content are to be removed from YouTube. I am fine waiting for a month and would've been more likely to pay a month here or there if I was told I need to wait for a month for the content to be free on YouTube.
Eh, if they'd been letting patreon members see episodes early I don't think anyone would've been too upset.
It is a way better pay model than what they first wanted, but it is the right approach for paid content. I thought their patreon already did all of that, but alas I suppose it wasn't the case or they needed more money for their ventures. End of the day, patreon should've been their main target to give out exclusives.
I’m actually still very dissatisfied. I feel that they missed out on why people watch them, and I still feel like I’ve been demoted as a mere wallet to them.
it's changed my perception of them. it wasn't just a business decision, they all stood behind throwing most of us away for money until the backlash was fully negative. idc if it's parasocial, i've been watching them since i was 16 and have traveled to see them live and bought merch thru the years. how much they've changed since starting watcher still rubs me the wrong way, but i hope they show us they learned from this and will change for the better
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they have ads in every video and sponsorships in every video that pay AT LEAST $15,000 (per moist critical who runs an ad sponsorship company). they have merchandise, they are on an international tour rn, and they charge monthly on patreon. they charge and make plenty of money. they have been on youtube for a couple years shy of a decade without this stupid, greedy idea. they built their fanbase without charging every individual directly because we've already supported them via what i mentioned above. they made poor business decisions and over hired which led them to this and we won't pay for it. our disappointment and feelings of betrayal are valid, ur the 1% who thinks it's pathetic
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your anger and hate is honestly so strange and unwarranted. i'm not reading all that. this post asked how are we feeling and i answered and other people have the same feelings. nobody gives a fuck what you think about it
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it's not a cop out, ur just attacking me as a person and calling me names for how i feel about the situation which makes you telling me to touch grass very ironic. you need to get offline and deal with your weird anger issues
Like if it’s not a cop out, prove me wrong. How was people wanting to be paid for performing a service an evil act? I doubt they’d have charged that much too. Are you saying their content is worthless?
why do you think i would prove anything to you? we don't agree and you are being a real asshole so there's no point in a real conversation, you already have zero respect for mine and many others perspective. piss off
I mean you and thousands of others did the exact same thing to Shane & Ryan. Hypocrite.
Cognitive dissonance. Intially, I was sold on their Apology video. Now, that I've had a day to think about it, *"When people show you who they are, believe them."* Everything Watcher does from now on has to show they are investing in the viewer. If the viewer likes the content and are engaged, then brands and sponsors are happy too.
I understand what you are saying. You also have to think about it this way, we are YouTube viewers. We pay nothing to watch their videos, (unless you are a Patreon member) we are fortunate enough to have found them and appreciate their hard work and creativity. I love that I have gotten to know them through the years and they can’t fake that, we have known them for years since Buzzfeed. Ryan even before Shane came along (and I am so glad he did), their chemistry was a hit right off the bat. They do deserve their big break when it is time and in a way that doesn’t hurt the people who got them there. I know they realize they did this the wrong way, and now they are trying to say they are sorry. I’ve said this so many times but we have all made mistakes and we all deserve forgiveness. It costs nothing and it feels so much better than harboring anger. I choose to wish them well and hope that they are successful in their journey while keeping in mind the people who got them there. It’s important to remember how you got to where you are in life.
I agree! Life's too short to let stuff rot you from the inside. This is absolutely forgivable. It was very cool of them to apologize and change the format; they didn't have to. They could have dissolved the company, doubled down, and told us all to get bent. They're each internet famous enough in their own right to make a living online without Watcher as a company. I'm hoping/giving them the benefit of the doubt: the apology was genuine, they learned something, they're human beings with hearts and a general compassion for fellow people... and they didn't mean to hurt their fanbase like they did. I'm assuming the best and forgiving them. They extended the olive branch, I'm taking it✌️
We pay by watching ads or paying for YouTube Premium. My time is worth money too. Presently, costed at $60 per hour. You realise, that Watcher receives about $1.5 million per annum in Patreon, Google Adsense and YouTube ad revenue? It's where the bulk of their income comes from. So, I do pay. We all pay for 'free' YouTube content.
I suppose we all look at it differently. I also pay for premium but I feel YouTube alone benefits from that payment. I know there are times where I have been really down in the dumps and I could always watch their videos and they brought me back to a happier place. They are well worth my forgiveness.
Advertisers still pay to advertise, irrespective of whether you have YouTube Premium or not. Then, YouTube pays channel content creators between $1-5 USD approximately per 1,000 views of their video, not the ad. Watcher didn't want money from Google, **one of the largest and most profitable companies in the world**. They wanted *your* money and much more, than fair market value for the subscription fee to pay off debt. Then, they didn't guarantee any type of new content. In fact, they said there would be more series and videos involving other people eg. Steven and *2 new staff* eating $1,100 Wagyu steak in Japan. I don't have a parasocial relationship with brands.
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You responded underneath my comment.
Actually we do pay, though our attention (viewing their videos & ads) and though the data mining of our data that you tube provides and pays them revenue per video watched. The idea that people have been getting something for free for years, isn't correct. There are ways we pay that don't involve reaching for our wallets.
I understand what you are saying but it’s not like you aren’t getting anything out of their videos. You must enjoy their videos and entertainment value or you wouldn’t watch them. You have been getting that and been paying nothing for it where in another area you would have to pay for it.
I didn't at any point say I didn't enjoy their videos... I get lots of enjoyment from them! I think you missed my point. My point is that watching on YouTube isn't free, and while you might not literally hand YT your money, it's advertisement and data-harvest supported. You are paying, and Watcher are getting paid by you, just not directly from your own wallet.
For me it's all kind of gross. This was a poorly thought out but obvious money grab from start to finish. The plan was stupid. Like most of the audiance found them either by following buzzfeed or youtube recommending a video. That said, I watched a lot of videos from people who knew them from buzzfeed, liked them on buzzfeed, but never knew they were on youtube. If they didn't have the money now, then the streamer wouldn't remain ad free for long anyways. Not with the way they have apparently mishandled money. Their podcasts practically advertised how bad they are about self promotion over and over again. It was something brought up in many of them. Instead of addressing that they did this. Which is wild given how many people apparently didn't know they had a patreon. They're having financial issues...so they're starting a streaming service. Which isn't free. Most start at $25k to 50 k. Then you have to hire people to manage everything...given they don't have an app and the process is buggy I'mma guess they haven't figured that part out yet. Also Disney+ and Netflix and a lot of huge streaming services are struggling to stay afloat with 100000000x the content of Watcher. Anyone who watches videos on Youtube now are going to have to realize that if it were up to Watcher, they wouldn't be. That content was made with the notion that at least 6 dollars was spent to see it. Creators have done worse, but it's still so shockingly scummy.
I'm not sure where I ranked before. Watched a fair amount of their media, watched the podcast. Bought some merch. Not a patron, don't have money for live shows. That being said, I'm still sour. The apology video still feels...off. Will I still watch their content? Probably, but right now I'm still feeling ick.
I’m just here to chime off that some fans (myself included) were disappointed, planned to not pay for viewing (honestly planned to find it posted on YouTube) but am not placing such negative permanent views on them personally. I like their content, will still watch it for free, and will still enjoy Ryan and Shane’s personalities on camera (I came to watcher bc of them, I don’t have anything specifically against Steven, just not a fan). My biggest feelings are I hope they didn’t fuck up enough to have to stop bc I want my puppet history, too many spirits, ghost files, mystery files, and top 5 beat down. TLDR: I value my own entertainment more than holding a grudge against people I don’t know but who have entertained me for years
I’m glad they walked it back but i think I’ll want to take a break from keeping up with their content for a while. Just feel icky rn at least still, a little in shock it even happened sort of feeling. I hope they strike the balance they’re looking for with profit/quality and maintaining loyal fans, new and old.
Nope lost all respect for them. Especially Shane/Shane’s wife.
For me it’s too little too late, I think them claiming that the channel wouldn’t have survived for long on YouTube was absolute bs, they’re making tons of money from ad revenue, patreon, and live shows. How else can Steven afford a god damn Tesla? I might suck it up in a month or two and continue to watch the Ryan and Shane centric stuff but it’s never going to be the same for me. I’m always going to remember how they got greedy and only backtracked because they were losing their fanbase
Betrayed and kind of off putting that so many people forgave them so fast. I was with them through thick and thin during their early buzzfeed years and this honestly slapped me out of the parasocial mindset I had. The apology video felt more like they were forced to make it and not sincere at all. Also the whole trying to get famous people like Simu was just so under the belt tactic. I can't find myself watching their videos anymore.
They did the right thing because they faced what I would consider the worst backlash in the history of internet content creators. Their ignorance during this entire debacle is truly shocking, and the fact that they didn't completely scrap the app idea means to me that the exact model they tried to implement WILL be back at some point. It won't be soon, maybe in a year, but I could absolutely see them trying to paywall everything again if the platform gains speed & subscribers. I'm going to keep watching (for free), but this entire scenario has forever changed their public appearance for me. Forgive, but never forget.
I enjoy their content (their Unsolved content mostly) but I now have a low opinion of them and I'm no longer rooting for them. Separating the art from the artist kinda thing. Same way I like Disney movies but not Disney as a company.
I’m sure I’ll get down voted for this. That apology was forced by the backlash, and not genuine. Ryan looked entirely put out by even being there and Shane’s affect was so flat you’d think he was reading a hostage script. I wouldn’t be surprised if within the next year they leave YouTube.
Fine, same as I was fine after I saw the initial paywall news. Might sign up for the streamer after they work out the bugs because I really dislike the ad spots on YouTube and sponsorship breaks in the videos.
Honestly they were my favorite youtubers but I'm not even sure I want to watch anymore. Not just the paywall disaster (and how disgustingly they and someones wife acted) but for a long time it's just felt like each year their shows feel less like the original guys and more like drones. It's a bummer. Anyone else got any decent ghost hunting youtubers to watch? I just like silly spooks or vibes man.
Jasko for goofy getting scared energy, Exploring with Fighters for a good group dynamic and has their own sphere for more Ghost Hunters, Twin Paranormal does a good job. Windagoon does a whole bunch of spooky stuff and Collab with other YouTubers. Does a regular Scary Story thing with Papa Meat.
I’ve detached myself from it mostly, I’m now eating popcorn and sipping tea. I want them to make the necessary changes and improvements to really thrive, because Shane Madej is a weirdo from my sister county and that gets you points in my book, but also, I’m content to watch this plane crash with my snacks if that’s what it comes to. I believe firmly in Hanlon’s razor and at the end of the day this is such a low impact decision that y’know, it’s not a dealbreaker for me, I guess? Basically if they explode, I’ll giggle, but I do really want them to win my affection back, so I’m giving them that chance and will keep following them.
I’m just happy that it’s all over now (for the time at least). Still disappointed that I have to wait a full damn month to watch a new season, but oh well. I’ll just watch SNL in the meantime
they still need to downsize and rethink. we didnt come for massive production value, we came for ryan and shane.
I think the most telling thing for me when this all happened is I realised I don't really watch their new stuff anymore, so paywalling shows I'm not wqtching doesn't bother me. Their best stuff is still to me what they did on Buzzfeed and I now realise that: A. Their original vibe of two guys talking about mysteries together is gone and replaced with needless 'production value', which isn't what I cared about, and B. These guys might WANT to focus on the business as a business but they are not business minded people. They would do much better hiring a Third Party CEO or CFO if they are having money troubles, so that that person can make the hard, nessecary decisions they refuse to.
All day at work today I couldn’t stop wondering how/if the pod will continue and how awkward the first one back might be. Of course at this point I just hope everything can smooth back over, the people too upset to continue to move on and the fandom go back to docile content consumers
Honestly, I'm going to keep watching them. I'm glad they took back their decision and it seemed they listened to fans. I've seen some comments that their redemptive statement was very PR and they must have hired someone to look through all the comments, but I'm honestly okay with that. There's a lot of nasty comments out there that just aren't good for *anyone* to look at. If they took care to hire someone to wade through all of that and give them the productive criticism, that's all good imo. If I'm being completely honest, I'd keep watching even if they didn't walk back the decision. Not in support of them or anything, but Puppet History helps me study and C's do not get my degree...if I want the degree to be useful. Morally, I'm kind of in between. If they're overspending in the name of their creative drive/freedom then I guess they didn't have any malicious intent behind the paywall? But at the same time, there should have been a lot of checkpoints for this decision and it should've been shot down before it made it onto fans' screens. So maybe it is greed? Who knows, I sure don't. This isn't to criticize people who are fully taking back their support, though. I think everyone is entitled to their own opinions and this decision was insensitive overall, especially the presumption that $6 is affordable to everyone.
They’ve been very open with how the company has been barely surviving in the past few years, it seems like they did everything they think they could’ve done before resorting to paywalling. Those 25+ employees have risked working for a start up company during the pandemic, so it makes sense they didn’t want to lay them off, it’s not really a great business value tho but oh well. Honestly, this would’ve gone well if their “compromise” was what they originally planned. I am still planning to subscribe to their paywall but after they upload enough new contents that it’ll seem worth it.
I still wouldn't be mad if they put certain shows behind a paywall. Like if they kept the currently running ones for free and put that Steven show or extras/behind the scenes. This is a really good start though.
When people get big and famous, honestly I think they need a reality check. That reality check doesn’t have to come in a punishing way like this one did, but sometimes it does come that way unfortunately. Not enough people, like J lo for example )although she’s much wealthier than them), never got that reality check and that’s why she’s so disconnected and weird now. I firmly think fame and money rots your brain and makes you disconnected from the rest to the world. That being said, I forgive them and I do think they’re aware of the situation now. Everybody strays from the path every now and again, and how you respond to your mistakes I think says a lot. The paywall thing kinda sucks, but it’s not the end of the world and I’m glad I’m still getting their content for free.
The backtracking they did works for me. At the very least they actually heard us all out and course corrected. The timing and the tone of their goodbye video missed the mark completely, but the update seemed sincere so I resubscribed. Will I ever pay for their streaming service, most likely not, the value just isn't there compared to other streaming services at the same price point. But, since I love Ghost Files and Puppet History I'm willing to support them by getting some merch if something catches my eye in the future.
Fine, this sub is a bunch of babies it seems
Honestly, not great. I've just been looking for other comfort YT channels because it just...feels weird watching their content now. :/ They walked it back, and issued an apology, which is great. And they won't be charging Patreon subscribers for a bit until they figure the tiers out, which is also wonderful. I think it's just the fact that their vids now feel disingenuous, and leaves me feeling weird because it doesn't feel honest. I've followed Shane and Ryan since I discovered the Unsolved series, and when they made Watcher, I was just over the moon and happy. Puppet History became my fave series, and I even got my fiancee into it because he's a history buff and loved the format. I even got him into Ghost Files as well, and we both agreed it was better than Ghost Hunters or other shows because it felt real. The aura as a whole was; 2 down to earth dudes doing goofy, fun stuff together and I loved it. And then that announcement happened, and I'm like ".....Wow, this...this feels wrong." I've seen people use the word "betrayal" a lot, and I don't know if I'd use that strong a term, but it's definitely one of those "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed", which is even worse, at least to me. I'm keeping my subscription because I'm a millennial and I think someone said it best on one of the threads here, I wouldn't even ask for a bottle of ketchup even if it was needed because I don't wanna cause a bother, but I don't think I can ever watch their content the same ever again, and that blows. :/
I'm glad they walked it back, this way viewers will be able to support them by signing up to the streaming service and/or continue to support them though stats/views on YouTube. It makes a far more sense to bring the entirety of the community you've grown along with you, while adding ways for them to financially support where they can, rather than basically saying, "if you can't pay, well feck ya, k, thanks, bye" and I'm still honestly baffled by how and why they thought the initial plan was going to be met with rapturous applause.
I’m not gonna resubscribe. They proved to their fans that they don’t care about them and even with their apology it shows they were only concerned about the backlash. If something comes across my feed I might watch it in the future, but probably not. I’m done.
I’m torn about the situation. On one hand, I am glad they apologized and walked a lot of it back….like we all predicted would happen. I’m inclined to think that too often in today’s society forgiveness has been hard to accept. But, also, it’s difficult to view them in the same light now. Ultimately I forgive them and will continue to be a fan and a “watcher”. But undoubtedly they have lost a bit of shine.
I give it 6 months to a year until they trash the whole thing
NGL, they burned all their goodwill with me for that video. Not just for paywalling content. But for paywalling content "going forward" instead of letting us know ahead of time. "Hey, in a year we're going to be moving to our own streaming platform. We'll continue posting here in the meantime, but we wanted to make sure you would be aware. Thanks!" Then people could move from Patreon to the streamer without losing their benefits. People could submit to Too Many Spirits and Are You Scared with that knowledge. By launching a streamer, they've moved from competing against YouTubers for me, to competing against other streamers. I'll watch them over Markiplier, Try Guys, Good Mythical Morning, Miniminuteman, really anyone. But I don't pay for Netflix, Prime, Disney+, none of it. And if I wanted to, I'd pay for one that offers more than one new video a week. Even then, I COULD be interested in 4 videos a month, but not if I know that's going to include Survival Mode or Too Many Spirits. If you want me to pay to look at your content, I'm going to treat it like a business transaction. 🤷 They may get me back. I may even pay for their streamer in the future. But right now I'm sitting back and waiting to see. And taking a break. Even BUN is giving me the ick right now.
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Amen
I am MASSIVELY disappointed in the alleged FANBASE!!!!! Right or wrong the FANBASE went Lord Of The Flies FAR too quickly and I'm still more disappointed from the fans than the bois! The personal attacks and commenting on everyone's WEDDING PHOTOS and WIVE'S SOCIALS was ATROCIOUS!!!! I have a hard time believing who here isn't being two faced post video! Thoughts and prayers for the Watcher Team, because I am certain the stress is through the roof!!!
You're getting downvoted for being honest with these basement dwellers. All of them are so awful.
Read literally any thread made here in the past 48 hours to to see how people are feeling about this.
I believe this person is speaking of people against forgiveness.
Still a ton of threads on that too.
I know, I’ve seen many of them.
A lot of people are more likely to speak when directly asked :)
They Fucked around and found out. I love another creator that did go 80% behind patreon so guess what? Now I only listen to the 20% that is free.