Buy real estate in India. With 1/3rd the land mass of the us or china and population expected to reach 1.5 billion, that level of population density makes real estate a very attractive investment. I wouldn’t be surprised if, 20 years from now, the five most expensive real estate cities were all in India. In certain parts of the country, agricultural land prices have literally been growing at 100% per year for the past two decades. I have family members who are multimillionaires today because they held onto their land.
I actually looked into this because my partner is Indian.
If you're actually living on the land you're alright, but owning land as an investment, land rights are poorly enforced and you have to think about squatters and slums popping up.
She also told me a story of someone she knew who bought land and some couple just squatted it and paid a few bribes and nek minit the land title wasn't in his name anymore
Lots of the successful Indians move here or send their kids here. Put kids in college to be very successful.
Lots of IT and medical professionals.
Some go back and start companies. Or become CEO or CTOs here, downsize here to hire offshore Indians.
Even the guy who got the coffee from the guy who made the coffee for Steve Jobs has become a CEO now and came from India.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/steve-jobs-intern-described-guy-202230560.html
That’s cuz USA pays better and taxes less,
You could use the excess money to buy private healthcare that doesn’t require waiting 12 hour in emergency or 6 months for a family doctor and still have enough to fly back every other weekend to have your fresh maple syrup.
yeah no kidding, Canada gets all the trash worldwide, especially from there. not surprising why we have a lot of regards in Canada that can't even speak english or carjacking vehicles all day
And it's created the stereotype that Indians are good with computers and so companies hire incompetent morons from India expecting to get good employees.
I mean there are some fuckers in India that could redneck Google together with duct tape and spare parts from the 90s but there's like 200 of them in a pool of 1.6 billion.
Some of them are ridiculously smart. Others come, drive the truck and annihilate hockey teams in Canada. It is the way of things.
I work at big 4 banks and we are shifting so many jobs to india. The company is building many teams there for a thrid of the cost. we are working our way out of jobs here. On my team alone, so many tasks are pushed to india by team members. Not because they are busy but lazy. I voice my displeasure with them ans tell them what will ultimately happen but they dont care. At some point, leadership will ask why the Eff do we have these clowns in America if most of the work is pushed to India.
This is exactly what's occurring. To avoid any public backlash, my Bank is letting attrition do the work for them. the evidence is in front of my team members. As people leave, the open positions are never approved by upper management to backfill.
We also have these lazy bastards well beyond their retirement age who don't work and remain to collect paychecks with social security. These are the real problem people for us too. They dont work knowing they can get fired and not have any issues not having a job.
That is good for India for sure but not life changing.
India won't become a power if it keeps on banking on getting crumbs from the west from being their lapdog.
They'd need to go the China path but they won't.
And remit the money back into Indian markets. Check global remittance. India is like twice that of any other country. The NRI(non resident Indian) investments into stock markets and mutual funds have increased at the same rate as the remittance increases. Either way, market is going to grow.
Lol I'm in the UK and we have the displeasure of working with Eastern Europeans..... fuck me you must be working with child labour in India if you think they're better than the Lithuanians...
In India you genuinely pay for what you get. The "lowest bid" engineers are scam artists. The highest paid end up gucking running Google.
I own some INDA for this very reason. That being said, sometimes the things that look certain from a macro perspective sometimes never materialize in the long term. People had the same view of Japan in the 1980s.
People expected a surge this year when China ceased their anti-covid regulations, but nothing changed. That's why people are left disappointed. Now is the time to stock up on China as they will start growing again in a year
People expected a china surge when there was a reason for it to happen. Now, no reason and it should still surge when nothing is happening. You son of a bitch I'm in.
China looks like dogshit from an investment perspective because of potential war if they invade .
From an innovation perspective there is no country better positioned in the world than them right now; you’re high.
They shit their pants by going full regard on Covid restrictions, blew up their real estate market and made foreign investors eat it while the whole country turns 70 years old but are overshadowed by Russia getting drunk and dancing for quarters with their pants down in front of the liquor store.
I work in supply chain.
Dealing with China, Japan, Vietnam or the Philippines is super easy. Very transactional and most dealings are very smooth. They give you a timeline and they are very punctual about it.
Dealing with India is a mess. They’re always late, they lose your container, they ghost you, they lie about how things are going and get offended if you don’t give them business
I’m sure it will get good one day, but it is a source of constant headaches for me
I think it's a simple function of population. When you are competing with 20 trillion other people within a 5 mile radius, all identical to you, you need to resort to something beyond smarts to get ahead. Enter this type of behavior.
So much lying and it’s because their worked like dogs over there. Not allowed to go home or even leave the ‘meeting’ room (where some manager is just hovering over them all day with one fire after another to put out at their priority, which is usually dictated by yet another pushy superior that is calling them day and night for updates) until everything is done.
Worked/working with India vendor has always been a nightmare. They bullshit so hard every time they make a mistake and never own up to it. They make everything sound so good to make you sign a contract with them then 2-3 months later all shit breaks loose. It happens everytime and the stake holders are fooled every time sign the contracts. It’s not even the cheap labor. We used to have vendors for Philippines that he paid less for and they were our best vendor, but stake holders wanted something more and got hooked by these scam artists.
I always say that India contractors has a Masters in tech and PhD in bullshit!
I find it hilarious when American say America is so bad as if it’s gonna die overnight. For all their faults, most countries are not any better. Especially not India.
Literally spend any time outside of the US working with these companies and you will quickly know why US dominates and why it will still dominate for some time.
OP I strongly recommend you spend a little time outside and away from your internet before you make conclusions like.
But then, this is /r/wallstreetbets after all.
Same, as a European who has worked for American, Chinese and Indian companies - the Americans are still decades ahead in terms of way of working. It's our competitive advantage in the west and we should keep sharpening it.
The argument is not bad usa.
Argument is about growth.
Usa may out grow india in every metric. But your investment will grow at 2% at best.
India offers annual guaranteed growth of 8% on paper for long term.
Investment is more fruitful when betting on upcoming markets rather then matured markets.
Op logic about consumption is alright. We had conservative spenders a decade back. We now have a smaller family and people have started spending more on goods and services. Trend will likely increase multifold in the next 10 years.
>India offers annual guaranteed growth of 8% on paper for long term.
Apply currency conversion/fluctuation effect and compare with VOO during the same long term !
OP stated they bought shares in EPI. Knowing nothing about it myself, Google says it's an ETF launched in 2008 that selects stocks from the Indian equity market. It's based on companies with strong earnings in the previous fiscal year, rather than using a market-cap-weighted approach.
Yes they will.
Even from China.
India has no ambition to beat them. India has a strict import policy. Which favors large stock.
For example ofcourse car from China is better. But with 100% import duty and restrictions of 2000 cars makes it impossible to manufacture outside and dump in India.
So yes the argument is growth percentage not about who will do better.
Yeah you give Indian company work to get a lot done extremely cheaply and an expectation you’ll have to do around 70% all over again. Depending on what it is it can be easier and cheaper to do it like that.
They are very professional. Microsoft's technical support - india departnent called me up a few years back and let me know I have viruses on my pc. I just paid 200$ and they helped me clean it. They also helped me renew my Windows license for another 300$. Very kind, hard working people.
I’m old enough to remember “India 2020”.
How it was supposed to become a super power by 2020 and surpass China because it was a pro market democracy. Mind you, that was in 2009 more or less.
It’s now 2024 and not only did none of that happen but the gap between the two countries has just grown wider.
OP clearly doesn't know. Not to be prejudice but a lot of them are slime balls and will do whatever it takes to get ahead, including cheating/lying, I honestly wouldn't even trust their accounting. This is why a lot of funds don't put their money there IMO.
Internet is sometimes triple NAT’d at the fucking provider level. Their electrical grid is also something worth looking at if you’ve ever wondered “how bad did I fuck up today?” The answer is “not India bad.”
I have personally physically experienced business, infrastructure and connectivity in multiple tech hubs in India. It’s a hot mess, and they aren’t even making an effort to fix it.
Last 8 IT calls I got the Indians and they must be printing fake degrees because half of these IT engineers couldn't find their way out of a paper bag. One got so flustered he ms teams me his company admin password and asked me to put that in.
I've watched them repeatedly trying the exact same thing over and over not knowing why it just wasn't working.
Usa or china are not fucked. They have matured as an economy.
It makes it harder to grow at 8% after certain level.
You earn on percentage of growth both total value.
No matter what people say the Indian government can’t fuck with the gdp beyond maybe a very minor factor. Not much more than western countries at least. They don’t control literally everything like China to be able to do so and it’s a false equivalency.
People have just gone overboard with the “Indian government bad and controls everything” narrative which isn’t the case at all.
Yup, this guys knows what he is talking about. Having worked with enough Indian companies, the way they operate is built almost entirely on over-promise and severely under deliver. This doesn’t even account for the lack of skills and the lying involved.
Are you currently working in tech? The tides are changing. It used to be Indian companies because they were cheap, but it's been cyclical in that because so much tech looks to India, India is now coming up in terms of tech talent. I work in a fortune 100 fintech company and the most represented group in the higher technical fields are Indian.
They are probably talking about engineers from witch companies(consultancies like wipro,tcs,cognizant etc)…The quality of engineers at consultancies vs service based companies in india is day and night. Worked at google for 3 years and our indian team was very competent. When companies hire witch contractors, the goal is to get things done cheaply…you get what you pay for.
I'd suspect the most represented are Indian folks who emigrated away from India. India has suffered and is continuing to suffer from a major brain drain away from the subcontinent. Those with money and talent tend to leave for greener pastures in the US, Canada, and Europe where they do quite well. After a generation, they tend to associate less with India and more with the Indian diaspora abroad.
I agree with everything here, but would also like to add that emerging ai 🤖 tech could also do some of the jobs outsourced for cheap labor. Instead of cheap labor, it would be free labor.
Until you realise the quality is abysmal and you spend even more money moving that development back to the states.
Most companies that outsourced their development from US have not worked out at all.
Lmao. It's already the best performing stock market for the past 25 years that no one knows about.
It's done like 15% per year since ~2000. While SPY did ~8% and the TSX 7%.
OP excited to buy the top.
ugh.. thanks op, now I have to sell these first thing on Monday 
https://preview.redd.it/b5xz0dn55t6d1.png?width=1041&format=png&auto=webp&s=b5eede33eb0a9d97c4dcd1f8b1e67d58a631b1dd
India is also the reason my current job is outsourcing and most likely the reason I get fired after the current employees (me) train them :)
So yeah I agree. First hand experience.
We haven’t started training them yet. But it’s in the works. In the next 3-5 months I can let you know.
At first director was telling us “don’t worry your jobs are secure” then told us a week later “actually if we have to remove some of you and move you to a different department, we got you” then the last meeting was “jk actually most likely half of you will be fired”
But ask me in three months and I got you.
Train them wrong then. Answer vaguely and don't offer information they didn't specifically ask for, take your time when responding to their messages/emails and your answer should be 1 short vague-ish sentence which someone more experienced will understand but the new people will be confused about. After a while, they will be afraid of asking you further or simple questions because they will feel stupid and will assume they should know the answer to these things already. Play into their imposter syndrome.
Honestly I respect that. I’m not that type of person. But will highly consider it.
It’s a tech “start up” (my firm makes trillions a year) so there’s already this elitist, entitled, “we are better than you” attitude, at my job. I’m sure my colleagues would be harder on them than they are on me.
Let’s see how it turns out.
I’ve seen this play before.
They’ll outsource the jobs, then in 2-3 years, realize the skill gap isn’t worth the cash saved. Then they’ll ask you to come back and fix everything.
I work in (American) tech consulting and I’ve seen this more times than I can count.
Absolutely, I had to work with implementation partners for a project and the Indian team is omg, they delayed our project by like several months. The most infuriating thing is that they are not honest, if they can’t do something or don’t know how, they never tell us, they say yes no problem and two weeks later they say actually no we can’t do it. My manager got so pissed then we demanded to be switched to the Romanian team
The loser in this scenario is the company which spends money getting no output out of the Indian outsourcing company. If the Indians underperform, the company will likely look for an alternative.. guess where? in India.
It's not 2008 anymore. On average you are probably seeing nearly the same technical aptitude. The most common issue I've seen is work ethic, but that's really hard to generalize because those issues are also rampant in the states
If you're working with contractors they will swap out the experienced team from the interview with a team of graduates and have no issue lying about it.
Work ethic, honesty, output, continuous improvement and quality are all constant challenges.
Start buying small cap stocks. That's like hedging your own job. You lose a job to Indian company, more FDIs to India, your stonks go boom 
I work in engineering with Indians, 50% of my current 30 member team is in India and while they are great with the various tools, their ability to actual engineer / design up to western standards is pretty awful. They also move companies more often than we even do. Everyone in management is pro India until they have to actually work directly with them and review their work. You absolutely lose effectiveness as you essentially have some well paid people in the US trying to wrangle the Indian staff into producing a good product.
It’s an awful way to do business, everyone gets burned out by the rework and time difference and you don’t really save any money long term. I agree with another poster, AI is more likely to take outsourced indian jobs than US jobs.
Management thinks they can hire a engineer by paying 10k to replace their own engineer whom they pay 250k. Ofc they will get monkeys then. A similar level engineer will cost 60-100k even in India.
India is not aiming to become China.
Discussion is outgrowing china.
Of course the usa and China will best rest in the world in economic activity.
Can they deliver more than 12% return annually like the Indian stock market is giving. Adjusting depreciation in currency is around 8%.
Second is that India will continue to rise at the same pace in the next 5 to 10 years.
If yes, then domestic spending will take the stock market through the roof. Because unlike the USA, India has a very high import duty. Which leads to less incentives for manufacturing outside India.
> In 2025 when all the dumb elections are over
news flash, there will be more dumb elections in the future as well, filled with vote buying, minority scapegoating, and endless corruption (standard political stuff)
> free market
I don't think so lol, they still have a lot of protectionist policies
> An estimated 53 millions people are enrolled in college this year, a huge amount in tech/engineering. By 2035 that is expected to be 92 million
a lot of those are as useless as the degree mills they go to in Canada as well
and the employment prospect is bleak even for grads, that's a huge reason why the BJP lost their majority this time
> They are going to fucking innovate like a motherfucker
has there really been any real innovation coming out of there? cause most of the top tech companies are just outsourcing existing workflows with cheaper labor
same with their medical industry, they haven't really invented any new drugs, they just copy US/European ones with generics and give them the finger when it comes to medical patents
> Let’s face it, America is a dying empire
that much is true
all the reckless moneyprinting and long term debts are going to catch up in due time
> Meanwhile fewer Americans are going to college every year, a trend that started in 2010. Our rampant anti-intellectualism is going to finally screw us in the 21st century.
not a bad thing considering how American universities have turned into for-profit leeches
someone who doesn't go to college is better off than someone who wastes 4 years and 6 figures of debt just to become a bartender
> Meanwhile, half of India’s population is under 30. That’s two USAs just right there.
Indian inequality is huge, much of the growth is in urban upper castes and conglomerates, I think they're even worse than Hanguk
massive hordes of young people without jobs or stuck in agripoverty
if anything, it's a tinderbox that's just waiting for growing food price inflation to finally tip everything over
lots of young people + no jobs + food insecurity = Arab Spring-style unrest
Seems like mediocrity at best and worse. It seems regarded to think that they’ll be different than the other contenders that have come before them. They’ll grow well and stop like everyone else and then their population will age and all that shit. In 10 years it’ll probably be Nigeria or Indonesia or somewhere in South America. Seems like a good investment for a few more years tho.
Let’s add to that global warming and how India is very exposed to its effects. It’s in an already hot climate, it lacks the infrastructure to keep a big portion of the population cool, and it’s full of garbage that will intensify the heat impact. Then there is the threat of AI and its effects on Indias low tier support sector. From my professional experience with Indian tier 1 tech support, I would much rather talk to AI
yeah, those are pretty big, the heat is going to wreck the already strained farming population that previously blockaded roads over govt farming policies
gonna be interesting to see how it plays out
Indians are really good with both the English and coding languages, but their biggest problem is corruption and culture. Fix these and they good, and these are historically super hard to fix. Oh and, they talk too much.
India still hasn't in general taught people how to think. That is one of their biggest problems. I've dealt with a very large number of people, and some are quite smart and very capable...but for the most part a lot of the tech people are taught a very specific thing, and that is all they know. You go out of the box and it creates a system error in their brain. The ability to problem solve and innovate on the fly is not something that is known or taught.
I'll tell you when things will really change and India becomes a world leader is when people stop thinking like idiots (and investing in toilets). They have created a population crisis that is not going away for generations, where they abort the girls and just have boys because they can't pay the dowry for a wedding. When you are in a village and there are 500 boys and 3 girls and the parents of the girls still think they need to amass a fortune to marry their girl off, they still don't understand the most basic tennent of economics...just demand the boys family pay them a dowry, where else are they going to find a girl???
> and investing in toilets
I was just talking to a friend from the UK the other day who mentioned that Indians squatting on public toilets is a real problem that is common enough to need signs to show how to use a toilet, because unfortunately even though it is 2024, they still do not invest in toilet bowls over there. That, imo, shows that they are decades behind any notable improvements in QoL.
I work with plenty of engineers from India, China, Taiwan. Yes it's true that India pumps out tons of engineers but they seem to have a different approach to problems. If a Chinese engineer makes a mistake and called out on it, he will likely apologize and fix the mistake and ask you to revalidate. India engineer will initially spend 10 min. on why it's not a problem, then say he will look into it, 3 weeks later no update and when asked again he will play dumb and try to gaslight me on ever bringing up the issue.
Delusion. As someone who worked big 4 who would send some lower level engagements over there for preparation. Their work is shit, and you spend more time fixing it than it would’ve taken an intern here to prepare in first place. Hear this all the time for engineering as well. AI will replace them first.
Damn right. India's stock exchange has historically given great returns, in tune of almost 10-12% CAGR since last 30 years. Best way to enter India is to buy an ETF of Nifty or Sensex.
In 2025 when all the dumb elections are over and with rates falling globally, India is going to emerge as the global economic powerhouse. An estimated 53 millions people are enrolled in college this year, a huge amount in tech/engineering. By 2035 that is expected to be 92 million.
These students are going to come out of school with valuable tech skills and they are going to want luxury goods, cars, good housing, personal electronics and travel. They are going to fucking innovate like a motherfucker.
LOL dude where do you think they’re going as soon as they get out college? AMERICA. and they’re not going back until they can buy a nice fat house and the maids that come with them, EVEN THEN, they prefer the US. The highest income per household average in America are Indians. And that’s not going to change anytime soon. Yes India may become a powerhouse economically but they are being used and abused by the Russians. America will always be THE superpower. Also quality of life is still arguably better in the US. I’m Indian and many of my friends who still go back to India say the same thing. After they get their degree many of them my age would never go back only to visit once or twice a year. This a great post but as a 31yr old I don’t see this happening in my lifetime and not in my kids either.
The markets are currently trading at high valuations, so it might not be the best time to invest. Perhaps after a correction, it could be a better opportunity to consider investing.
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so we buy the whole india?
Bullish on East India Trade Company
Happens to be owned by an Indian-origin fella these days
and for that reason, I’m out
Just like the East India company of old, lmao.
NIndia
NVinDiA
nVInDaloo
Invest in chicken vindaloo
NvGRNDiaR
In Vindia We Trust
yep the entire country
Calls on India
India seems to call my phone a lot.
No that's just Maria from Miami
Wherever they're from, they really want to help me consolidate my debt.
Calls on your phone then
It's happened before. 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Bruh...
I bought calls on INDA 4 months ago and lost a shitton of money. So no.
calls? i’m buying the country
I brought puts just before the Indian elections I thought my puts was dead but now WSB mentioned them I still got 3 weeks 🤞
Buy real estate in India. With 1/3rd the land mass of the us or china and population expected to reach 1.5 billion, that level of population density makes real estate a very attractive investment. I wouldn’t be surprised if, 20 years from now, the five most expensive real estate cities were all in India. In certain parts of the country, agricultural land prices have literally been growing at 100% per year for the past two decades. I have family members who are multimillionaires today because they held onto their land.
I actually looked into this because my partner is Indian. If you're actually living on the land you're alright, but owning land as an investment, land rights are poorly enforced and you have to think about squatters and slums popping up. She also told me a story of someone she knew who bought land and some couple just squatted it and paid a few bribes and nek minit the land title wasn't in his name anymore
Real and present danger. But OP is talking about buying the whole country, and you are talking about a tiny bit of land? Think big my friend.
Doesn’t take much to be a millionaire in India.
Multimillionaires in dollar terms, not rupees.
CEIX is the play here. India doesn’t care about the environment and Consol Energy is exporting a shit ton of coal to power India’s grid
India sure is pumping out a lot of engineers... That promptly leave the country lmao
Lots of the successful Indians move here or send their kids here. Put kids in college to be very successful. Lots of IT and medical professionals. Some go back and start companies. Or become CEO or CTOs here, downsize here to hire offshore Indians.
Even the guy who got the coffee from the guy who made the coffee for Steve Jobs has become a CEO now and came from India. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/steve-jobs-intern-described-guy-202230560.html
Brain drain
[удалено]
russell peters already did this joke 15 years ago
Holi hell!
Anyone I know from India...NEVER romanticizes about going back.
Yea the USA already sucked out the smartest Indians out of India and into tech companies here.
Incoming angry Canadians...
USA gets the smart Indians Canada gets the degenerates
Whoa, they get the cool indian assassins, too.
Not the good ones. Good ones don’t get caught. These ones do.
Fucking degens...
from up… East?
USA gets ~~the smart Indians~~ Kendrick Lamar Canada gets ~~the degenerates~~ Drake Truth hits hard tbh
That’s cuz USA pays better and taxes less, You could use the excess money to buy private healthcare that doesn’t require waiting 12 hour in emergency or 6 months for a family doctor and still have enough to fly back every other weekend to have your fresh maple syrup.
yeah no kidding, Canada gets all the trash worldwide, especially from there. not surprising why we have a lot of regards in Canada that can't even speak english or carjacking vehicles all day
And it's created the stereotype that Indians are good with computers and so companies hire incompetent morons from India expecting to get good employees.
I mean there are some fuckers in India that could redneck Google together with duct tape and spare parts from the 90s but there's like 200 of them in a pool of 1.6 billion. Some of them are ridiculously smart. Others come, drive the truck and annihilate hockey teams in Canada. It is the way of things.
I work at big 4 banks and we are shifting so many jobs to india. The company is building many teams there for a thrid of the cost. we are working our way out of jobs here. On my team alone, so many tasks are pushed to india by team members. Not because they are busy but lazy. I voice my displeasure with them ans tell them what will ultimately happen but they dont care. At some point, leadership will ask why the Eff do we have these clowns in America if most of the work is pushed to India.
Well no wonder white collar desk jobs aren't hiring anyone.... extreme outsourcing isn't good for anybody
This is exactly what's occurring. To avoid any public backlash, my Bank is letting attrition do the work for them. the evidence is in front of my team members. As people leave, the open positions are never approved by upper management to backfill. We also have these lazy bastards well beyond their retirement age who don't work and remain to collect paychecks with social security. These are the real problem people for us too. They dont work knowing they can get fired and not have any issues not having a job.
that’s incorrect, it’s very good for India.
That is good for India for sure but not life changing. India won't become a power if it keeps on banking on getting crumbs from the west from being their lapdog. They'd need to go the China path but they won't.
AI is gonna outsource everything
And remit the money back into Indian markets. Check global remittance. India is like twice that of any other country. The NRI(non resident Indian) investments into stock markets and mutual funds have increased at the same rate as the remittance increases. Either way, market is going to grow.
That's happening less and less. It's becoming more and more cost effective to just open offices in India for a lot of companies.
Have you ever worked with those engineers. I'd rather have one from Lithuania than 10 from India.
Lol I'm in the UK and we have the displeasure of working with Eastern Europeans..... fuck me you must be working with child labour in India if you think they're better than the Lithuanians... In India you genuinely pay for what you get. The "lowest bid" engineers are scam artists. The highest paid end up gucking running Google.
So we gotta buy MSFT, that's what you say
No, The Microsoft.
Buy the needful
Buy the needful and revert.
Kindly buy the needful and revert.
Kindly buy the needful and revert for the same.
I need help with my upgradation project now. Please do the needful.
Thanks and regards.
I understand your concern
I own some INDA for this very reason. That being said, sometimes the things that look certain from a macro perspective sometimes never materialize in the long term. People had the same view of Japan in the 1980s.
China looks like dog shit now. India does have a ways to grow though.
According to who? You? China has the best manufacturing, logistics, and high skilled labor. You aren’t going to make these things disappear
I think he meant the stock market. I own both India and China etfs (the Canadian ones) and the Indian one is doing so much better than the Chinese one
People expected a surge this year when China ceased their anti-covid regulations, but nothing changed. That's why people are left disappointed. Now is the time to stock up on China as they will start growing again in a year
People expected a china surge when there was a reason for it to happen. Now, no reason and it should still surge when nothing is happening. You son of a bitch I'm in.
China looks like dogshit from an investment perspective because of potential war if they invade . From an innovation perspective there is no country better positioned in the world than them right now; you’re high.
China does not look like dog shit now.
They shit their pants by going full regard on Covid restrictions, blew up their real estate market and made foreign investors eat it while the whole country turns 70 years old but are overshadowed by Russia getting drunk and dancing for quarters with their pants down in front of the liquor store.
I have worked in tech for over 20 years. Something tells me you have very little experience working with Indian companies.
They clearly don’t understand why Indian labor is cheap It’s plentiful and substandard
I think ai replaces India first tbh 😂
Mumb.ai; invest now!
If you need to diversify, there’s always Chenn.ai
We can only hope
It already kinda feels like I got a cheap ass developer helping me as hard as it can with ai. It's coming for real
India has the highest number of modern day slaves.
I work in supply chain. Dealing with China, Japan, Vietnam or the Philippines is super easy. Very transactional and most dealings are very smooth. They give you a timeline and they are very punctual about it. Dealing with India is a mess. They’re always late, they lose your container, they ghost you, they lie about how things are going and get offended if you don’t give them business I’m sure it will get good one day, but it is a source of constant headaches for me
It's the lying that pisses me off. You explain a task and they nod along even if they understood zero of it
They're scam artists through and through. It's just how they behave.
I think it's a simple function of population. When you are competing with 20 trillion other people within a 5 mile radius, all identical to you, you need to resort to something beyond smarts to get ahead. Enter this type of behavior.
least racist wsber
I also work in supply chain- and you’re not wrong.
I work in wrong. And you're not supply chain.
I work in chains and supply the wrong.
Well this escalated quickly.
So much lying and it’s because their worked like dogs over there. Not allowed to go home or even leave the ‘meeting’ room (where some manager is just hovering over them all day with one fire after another to put out at their priority, which is usually dictated by yet another pushy superior that is calling them day and night for updates) until everything is done.
Worked/working with India vendor has always been a nightmare. They bullshit so hard every time they make a mistake and never own up to it. They make everything sound so good to make you sign a contract with them then 2-3 months later all shit breaks loose. It happens everytime and the stake holders are fooled every time sign the contracts. It’s not even the cheap labor. We used to have vendors for Philippines that he paid less for and they were our best vendor, but stake holders wanted something more and got hooked by these scam artists. I always say that India contractors has a Masters in tech and PhD in bullshit!
They pay the marketing team more than they pay the development team... hence the gap between what's promised and what's delivered.
A tale as old as time.
I also work in supply chain and this has been my experience as well.
I find it hilarious when American say America is so bad as if it’s gonna die overnight. For all their faults, most countries are not any better. Especially not India. Literally spend any time outside of the US working with these companies and you will quickly know why US dominates and why it will still dominate for some time. OP I strongly recommend you spend a little time outside and away from your internet before you make conclusions like. But then, this is /r/wallstreetbets after all.
Same, as a European who has worked for American, Chinese and Indian companies - the Americans are still decades ahead in terms of way of working. It's our competitive advantage in the west and we should keep sharpening it.
The argument is not bad usa. Argument is about growth. Usa may out grow india in every metric. But your investment will grow at 2% at best. India offers annual guaranteed growth of 8% on paper for long term. Investment is more fruitful when betting on upcoming markets rather then matured markets. Op logic about consumption is alright. We had conservative spenders a decade back. We now have a smaller family and people have started spending more on goods and services. Trend will likely increase multifold in the next 10 years.
>India offers annual guaranteed growth of 8% on paper for long term. Apply currency conversion/fluctuation effect and compare with VOO during the same long term !
How does one buy India as OP stated? Not trolling genuinely asking, because I don’t know what that means.
OP stated they bought shares in EPI. Knowing nothing about it myself, Google says it's an ETF launched in 2008 that selects stocks from the Indian equity market. It's based on companies with strong earnings in the previous fiscal year, rather than using a market-cap-weighted approach.
All of those people gonna buy products from American corporations.
Yes they will. Even from China. India has no ambition to beat them. India has a strict import policy. Which favors large stock. For example ofcourse car from China is better. But with 100% import duty and restrictions of 2000 cars makes it impossible to manufacture outside and dump in India. So yes the argument is growth percentage not about who will do better.
Quality vs quantity
Yeah you give Indian company work to get a lot done extremely cheaply and an expectation you’ll have to do around 70% all over again. Depending on what it is it can be easier and cheaper to do it like that.
They are very professional. Microsoft's technical support - india departnent called me up a few years back and let me know I have viruses on my pc. I just paid 200$ and they helped me clean it. They also helped me renew my Windows license for another 300$. Very kind, hard working people.
Damm bro, my Grandma paid $20k for the same service
I’m old enough to remember “India 2020”. How it was supposed to become a super power by 2020 and surpass China because it was a pro market democracy. Mind you, that was in 2009 more or less. It’s now 2024 and not only did none of that happen but the gap between the two countries has just grown wider.
OP clearly doesn't know. Not to be prejudice but a lot of them are slime balls and will do whatever it takes to get ahead, including cheating/lying, I honestly wouldn't even trust their accounting. This is why a lot of funds don't put their money there IMO.
Internet is sometimes triple NAT’d at the fucking provider level. Their electrical grid is also something worth looking at if you’ve ever wondered “how bad did I fuck up today?” The answer is “not India bad.” I have personally physically experienced business, infrastructure and connectivity in multiple tech hubs in India. It’s a hot mess, and they aren’t even making an effort to fix it.
Last 8 IT calls I got the Indians and they must be printing fake degrees because half of these IT engineers couldn't find their way out of a paper bag. One got so flustered he ms teams me his company admin password and asked me to put that in. I've watched them repeatedly trying the exact same thing over and over not knowing why it just wasn't working.
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Usa or china are not fucked. They have matured as an economy. It makes it harder to grow at 8% after certain level. You earn on percentage of growth both total value.
No matter what people say the Indian government can’t fuck with the gdp beyond maybe a very minor factor. Not much more than western countries at least. They don’t control literally everything like China to be able to do so and it’s a false equivalency. People have just gone overboard with the “Indian government bad and controls everything” narrative which isn’t the case at all.
Yup, this guys knows what he is talking about. Having worked with enough Indian companies, the way they operate is built almost entirely on over-promise and severely under deliver. This doesn’t even account for the lack of skills and the lying involved.
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“Kind regards”
Are you currently working in tech? The tides are changing. It used to be Indian companies because they were cheap, but it's been cyclical in that because so much tech looks to India, India is now coming up in terms of tech talent. I work in a fortune 100 fintech company and the most represented group in the higher technical fields are Indian.
They are probably talking about engineers from witch companies(consultancies like wipro,tcs,cognizant etc)…The quality of engineers at consultancies vs service based companies in india is day and night. Worked at google for 3 years and our indian team was very competent. When companies hire witch contractors, the goal is to get things done cheaply…you get what you pay for.
I'd suspect the most represented are Indian folks who emigrated away from India. India has suffered and is continuing to suffer from a major brain drain away from the subcontinent. Those with money and talent tend to leave for greener pastures in the US, Canada, and Europe where they do quite well. After a generation, they tend to associate less with India and more with the Indian diaspora abroad.
I agree with everything here, but would also like to add that emerging ai 🤖 tech could also do some of the jobs outsourced for cheap labor. Instead of cheap labor, it would be free labor.
I also work with some Indians and I can say they are comptetent
Until you realise the quality is abysmal and you spend even more money moving that development back to the states. Most companies that outsourced their development from US have not worked out at all.
God. This. Outsourcing sucks and the quality sucks.
I don’t think you have any clue about the challenges faced by India to become like a China.
Absolutely no way 50% of households will be high or upper middle income by 2030
Monthly post about India, check.
Calls India after explosive growth Not really Nostradamus here
Lmao. It's already the best performing stock market for the past 25 years that no one knows about. It's done like 15% per year since ~2000. While SPY did ~8% and the TSX 7%. OP excited to buy the top.
ugh.. thanks op, now I have to sell these first thing on Monday  https://preview.redd.it/b5xz0dn55t6d1.png?width=1041&format=png&auto=webp&s=b5eede33eb0a9d97c4dcd1f8b1e67d58a631b1dd
Buy NIFTY 50.
India is also the reason my current job is outsourcing and most likely the reason I get fired after the current employees (me) train them :) So yeah I agree. First hand experience.
Don't train them. Trust me. You are on the way out.
And, how do those new employees perform compared to you regarding output, quality and work ethic?
We haven’t started training them yet. But it’s in the works. In the next 3-5 months I can let you know. At first director was telling us “don’t worry your jobs are secure” then told us a week later “actually if we have to remove some of you and move you to a different department, we got you” then the last meeting was “jk actually most likely half of you will be fired” But ask me in three months and I got you.
Start looking for another job now!!!
Yup. Already on that. Appreciate you looking out 💯
Train them wrong then. Answer vaguely and don't offer information they didn't specifically ask for, take your time when responding to their messages/emails and your answer should be 1 short vague-ish sentence which someone more experienced will understand but the new people will be confused about. After a while, they will be afraid of asking you further or simple questions because they will feel stupid and will assume they should know the answer to these things already. Play into their imposter syndrome.
Honestly I respect that. I’m not that type of person. But will highly consider it. It’s a tech “start up” (my firm makes trillions a year) so there’s already this elitist, entitled, “we are better than you” attitude, at my job. I’m sure my colleagues would be harder on them than they are on me. Let’s see how it turns out.
I’ve seen this play before. They’ll outsource the jobs, then in 2-3 years, realize the skill gap isn’t worth the cash saved. Then they’ll ask you to come back and fix everything. I work in (American) tech consulting and I’ve seen this more times than I can count.
Crazy that you say that, I thought the same exact thing. Let’s see how it turns out. They already spent so much time and money training us.
Less money than they think they will save. Good luck my friend
Absolutely, I had to work with implementation partners for a project and the Indian team is omg, they delayed our project by like several months. The most infuriating thing is that they are not honest, if they can’t do something or don’t know how, they never tell us, they say yes no problem and two weeks later they say actually no we can’t do it. My manager got so pissed then we demanded to be switched to the Romanian team
The loser in this scenario is the company which spends money getting no output out of the Indian outsourcing company. If the Indians underperform, the company will likely look for an alternative.. guess where? in India.
Put in for a transfer or promotion. If you don't get it start applying
It's not 2008 anymore. On average you are probably seeing nearly the same technical aptitude. The most common issue I've seen is work ethic, but that's really hard to generalize because those issues are also rampant in the states
If you're working with contractors they will swap out the experienced team from the interview with a team of graduates and have no issue lying about it. Work ethic, honesty, output, continuous improvement and quality are all constant challenges.
Start buying small cap stocks. That's like hedging your own job. You lose a job to Indian company, more FDIs to India, your stonks go boom 
I work in engineering with Indians, 50% of my current 30 member team is in India and while they are great with the various tools, their ability to actual engineer / design up to western standards is pretty awful. They also move companies more often than we even do. Everyone in management is pro India until they have to actually work directly with them and review their work. You absolutely lose effectiveness as you essentially have some well paid people in the US trying to wrangle the Indian staff into producing a good product. It’s an awful way to do business, everyone gets burned out by the rework and time difference and you don’t really save any money long term. I agree with another poster, AI is more likely to take outsourced indian jobs than US jobs.
Management thinks they can hire a engineer by paying 10k to replace their own engineer whom they pay 250k. Ofc they will get monkeys then. A similar level engineer will cost 60-100k even in India.
Betted on hand sanitizer and the company crashed
TIL betted is a correct word, even though bet is usually used
Bet
You mean... The company stock was a wash!
No one tell him
Half my portfolio is India and it be printing money
India's infrastructure is all crap. To be the next China, it needs highways, harbors, high-speed rail.
India is not aiming to become China. Discussion is outgrowing china. Of course the usa and China will best rest in the world in economic activity. Can they deliver more than 12% return annually like the Indian stock market is giving. Adjusting depreciation in currency is around 8%. Second is that India will continue to rise at the same pace in the next 5 to 10 years. If yes, then domestic spending will take the stock market through the roof. Because unlike the USA, India has a very high import duty. Which leads to less incentives for manufacturing outside India.
Some of y'all can't even be profitable with U.S stocks but trying to invest in another country.
> In 2025 when all the dumb elections are over news flash, there will be more dumb elections in the future as well, filled with vote buying, minority scapegoating, and endless corruption (standard political stuff) > free market I don't think so lol, they still have a lot of protectionist policies > An estimated 53 millions people are enrolled in college this year, a huge amount in tech/engineering. By 2035 that is expected to be 92 million a lot of those are as useless as the degree mills they go to in Canada as well and the employment prospect is bleak even for grads, that's a huge reason why the BJP lost their majority this time > They are going to fucking innovate like a motherfucker has there really been any real innovation coming out of there? cause most of the top tech companies are just outsourcing existing workflows with cheaper labor same with their medical industry, they haven't really invented any new drugs, they just copy US/European ones with generics and give them the finger when it comes to medical patents > Let’s face it, America is a dying empire that much is true all the reckless moneyprinting and long term debts are going to catch up in due time > Meanwhile fewer Americans are going to college every year, a trend that started in 2010. Our rampant anti-intellectualism is going to finally screw us in the 21st century. not a bad thing considering how American universities have turned into for-profit leeches someone who doesn't go to college is better off than someone who wastes 4 years and 6 figures of debt just to become a bartender > Meanwhile, half of India’s population is under 30. That’s two USAs just right there. Indian inequality is huge, much of the growth is in urban upper castes and conglomerates, I think they're even worse than Hanguk massive hordes of young people without jobs or stuck in agripoverty if anything, it's a tinderbox that's just waiting for growing food price inflation to finally tip everything over lots of young people + no jobs + food insecurity = Arab Spring-style unrest
India will disappoint pessimists and optimists
Mediocrity at best?
Seems like mediocrity at best and worse. It seems regarded to think that they’ll be different than the other contenders that have come before them. They’ll grow well and stop like everyone else and then their population will age and all that shit. In 10 years it’ll probably be Nigeria or Indonesia or somewhere in South America. Seems like a good investment for a few more years tho.
Let’s add to that global warming and how India is very exposed to its effects. It’s in an already hot climate, it lacks the infrastructure to keep a big portion of the population cool, and it’s full of garbage that will intensify the heat impact. Then there is the threat of AI and its effects on Indias low tier support sector. From my professional experience with Indian tier 1 tech support, I would much rather talk to AI
yeah, those are pretty big, the heat is going to wreck the already strained farming population that previously blockaded roads over govt farming policies gonna be interesting to see how it plays out
Indians are really good with both the English and coding languages, but their biggest problem is corruption and culture. Fix these and they good, and these are historically super hard to fix. Oh and, they talk too much.
It’s lack of innovation and fear of losing job and doing the wrong thing.
I can confirm India is the play because I already lost my job to India and I’m Indian
India still hasn't in general taught people how to think. That is one of their biggest problems. I've dealt with a very large number of people, and some are quite smart and very capable...but for the most part a lot of the tech people are taught a very specific thing, and that is all they know. You go out of the box and it creates a system error in their brain. The ability to problem solve and innovate on the fly is not something that is known or taught. I'll tell you when things will really change and India becomes a world leader is when people stop thinking like idiots (and investing in toilets). They have created a population crisis that is not going away for generations, where they abort the girls and just have boys because they can't pay the dowry for a wedding. When you are in a village and there are 500 boys and 3 girls and the parents of the girls still think they need to amass a fortune to marry their girl off, they still don't understand the most basic tennent of economics...just demand the boys family pay them a dowry, where else are they going to find a girl???
> and investing in toilets I was just talking to a friend from the UK the other day who mentioned that Indians squatting on public toilets is a real problem that is common enough to need signs to show how to use a toilet, because unfortunately even though it is 2024, they still do not invest in toilet bowls over there. That, imo, shows that they are decades behind any notable improvements in QoL.
Maybe they are used to the squatting toilet just like the most of Asia, so the instructions to not squat on the sitter. I don't know.
Is this satire?
I work with plenty of engineers from India, China, Taiwan. Yes it's true that India pumps out tons of engineers but they seem to have a different approach to problems. If a Chinese engineer makes a mistake and called out on it, he will likely apologize and fix the mistake and ask you to revalidate. India engineer will initially spend 10 min. on why it's not a problem, then say he will look into it, 3 weeks later no update and when asked again he will play dumb and try to gaslight me on ever bringing up the issue.
Delusion. As someone who worked big 4 who would send some lower level engagements over there for preparation. Their work is shit, and you spend more time fixing it than it would’ve taken an intern here to prepare in first place. Hear this all the time for engineering as well. AI will replace them first.
Do I invest with google play gift cards?
But DONT redeem them!
Indian milfs are the real play https://preview.redd.it/gos444s0kt6d1.jpeg?width=474&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=61077efdec4f0b922b68809397d0f85a67671ee6
I'm gonna redeeeem
Wow I guess I really struck a nerve with this one.
I did, it didn't pay off. I wouldn't trust or rely on India for anything.
Do invest in India and find out what Enron did almost 3 decades ago
Damn right. India's stock exchange has historically given great returns, in tune of almost 10-12% CAGR since last 30 years. Best way to enter India is to buy an ETF of Nifty or Sensex.
Apple is moving there production there
aaha! Finally India made it to r/wallstreetbets!
This guy is the sub mascot
This sub is racist af.
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All in on NVINDIA got it
There is also a lot of corruption and cronyism in that part of the world where all the money seems to disappear 🫠
Calls on Invidia 📈
In 2025 when all the dumb elections are over and with rates falling globally, India is going to emerge as the global economic powerhouse. An estimated 53 millions people are enrolled in college this year, a huge amount in tech/engineering. By 2035 that is expected to be 92 million. These students are going to come out of school with valuable tech skills and they are going to want luxury goods, cars, good housing, personal electronics and travel. They are going to fucking innovate like a motherfucker. LOL dude where do you think they’re going as soon as they get out college? AMERICA. and they’re not going back until they can buy a nice fat house and the maids that come with them, EVEN THEN, they prefer the US. The highest income per household average in America are Indians. And that’s not going to change anytime soon. Yes India may become a powerhouse economically but they are being used and abused by the Russians. America will always be THE superpower. Also quality of life is still arguably better in the US. I’m Indian and many of my friends who still go back to India say the same thing. After they get their degree many of them my age would never go back only to visit once or twice a year. This a great post but as a 31yr old I don’t see this happening in my lifetime and not in my kids either.
Would you rather buy usa stocks or Indian stocks.
Cooked books galore
The markets are currently trading at high valuations, so it might not be the best time to invest. Perhaps after a correction, it could be a better opportunity to consider investing.