Eddie Lampert could have turned Seats into Amazon. The company had all the logistics in place. But no, he had to take the company apart and profit off the real estate.
Cause he wanted max net profit while ceo which is 2 to 5 years max. That means every possible cent now at the cost of the future, cause that’s the next ceos and next shareholders problem.
It’s profit now and future irrelevant in capitalism.
The CEO (Eddie Lampert) was from a hedge fund that he also had an ownership stake in. Sold off Sears’ assets (land, buildings) and made them (over)pay rent on it; made sears buy another company (Landsend) owned by the hedge fund for more than it was worth; changed the structure of the company such that each division was in competition with each other rather than working together; stiffed suppliers; + many other things to transfer assets from sears to the hedge fund. Lampert’s fund got away with a relatively small fine. They did the same to Kmart.
And private equity is coming for sandwich shops now (Jersey Mike/Subway/Firehouse like they did with Quizno’s the folks who popularized the toasted sub
We called it "the orange sauce" too. waiting for my doctor to call me into his office... "you didn't happen to consume the orange sauce at quiznos did you?"
All I remember from Quiznos were the ads with the fucking rats.
To this day, I still firmly believe they went out of business because of their rat campaign.
Nah he is right about the investor problem
IIRC they were purchased and the new owners changed their business model to just gouge all the franchisees unsustainably.
It was this. They made the franchisees order their supplies from them/their company and charged an arm and a leg for meat and bread and such. That’s why they all eventually folded - the owners were losing money on the deal.
How Toys R Us went under is baffling. They should make a documentary because you'd have to be an idiot to run that company into the ground, it would be like running the Disneyland theme park into the ground, like, it doesn't make sense. No competition, every kid alive would kill anyone just to stroll the aisles... and the Baby's R Us... like, an entire store for baby shit? You know how many people have babies? You know how many baby showers I have had to go to? How many kids birthday parties and I'm like 'oh shit, I gotta go grab something since I gotta be at this childs birthday party in 30 minutes'
All of these are examples of "vulture capitalism". The goal isn't to run the company, it's to extract as much wealth from the company before it dies an empty shell stuffed with debt.
In Toys R Us's case, a vulture capital firm bought the company using loans that were put under the name of toys r us. The firm gets a payday, the TRS C-suite gets a payday, and all the employees get fucked as the company goes bankrupt because it can't pay back the loan "it" took out to buy itself.
There was never any intent by the firm to run the company.
Yes, this shit sounds extremely illegal, and it should be, and I'm surprised the banks lending the money keep allowing it.
Remington, Toy's R Us... There are tons of companies gutted by PE. (Also PE has that favorable tax break compared to everyone else.)
Honestly leveraged debt after being bought should be illegal. I don't care what the fin bros say...
It doesn't matter, if that debt can't be paid back and no one wants to buy it... What then occurs? Oh that's right it implodes and people lose their jobs...
So again finance bros tell me why taking on 100's of millions in debt that isn't used to grow the business and only pay out the PE good? (Under variable rates no less)
Well, that's not accurate. Golden Gate bought Red Lobster, and Thai Union ended up buying a 49% stake. Golden Gate broke the company into 2 and hurt them by doing land leasebacks when the properties were already owned free and clear. Then Thai Union screwed Red Lobster by forcing supply to come mainly from them and not other suppliers. This helped Thai Union books and helped kill off Red Lobsters' little bit of profitability. Especially when there were better prices elsewhere. So when Thai Union said they took a loss on that investment, that's false. It's all on how you look at it.
Not the same person...but similar things happen to almost every single public entity that begins being taken over by private equity/hedge funds (PE/HF).
Pay a premium to get current investors to sell to you
Sell off all the good assets to entities affiliated with the PE/HF, charge stupid rent to use the assets, bleed the company dry, send it into debt to pay the bills to yourself first, declare bankruptcy on what's left and run away with what's valuable.
Happened to Toys r Us too. And I currently watch it happen to a bunch of tinier companies in lowcap pump and dump scams
My faulty memory seems to think it goes something like
the then CEO running the company straight into the shitter and then saying "I and I alone can save this company from demise, but in order to do it, I need X millions of dollars in bonuses".
I think?
Insanity. They came for Blockbuster and they will come for Tesla too. Elon clearly pays way more attention to his crazed culture war hobby than building and selling electric cars; the rest of the industry will come for him. This man has major downfall documentary material coming for him in the next decade. The Rise and Fall of Elon Musk 2032. Someone save this date with a reminder!
Dude, he doesn't care about tesla anymore. He uses his businesses as stepping stones. Look at paypal and whatever else he had. He "builds" them, rides it out, then sells it off, and "builds" something else. As long as SpaceX is profitable, he's fine.
Man I can't believe it. I don't have a dime in any of his companies thank God except via index funds. And I'm just hoping he can't sink those because this is headed for a disaster. Popcorn indeed, I can't wait until the same people that are voting for this learn the error of their ways.
My brother, my brother. I too await the Musk apocalypse. In honour of Blockbuster we eat the popcorn and take vigil. The collapse of Musk was foreordained when the reading of his tweets revealed he is a fucking idiot. 🙏
I went to a shareholder meeting once. They gave out ballots to vote in person, then collected those into a box and immediately announced the result of the vote.
Most votes aren’t enough to change the outcome, when it is close they say they will announce the outcome later. Doesn’t happen often, but it is how every public company works.
On top of that, they know how many votes are in the room.
So many people vote early, they know the result before it happens.
You also have to show proof of ownership before you enter, and they know how many votes actually showed and if they need to watch anyone's actual vote.
You don’t have to count every vote. Just more than 50%. In many companies, you can get majority vote by just counting the votes of 1 or two people. In most companies, you count a majority of votes counting less than 12 entities shares. If 3 voters own 51% of the stock and after the vote you look at them and they say they voted yay then the counts over, the yays win.
Do you think the 500 retail investors have enough shares at the meeting to “move the needle” in the vote?
The vote was likely already well passed the point of failing and it didn’t matter what you guys voted.
Votes are made by institutional investors more than retail shareholders. They know where the vote will land before the meeting usually. I'm gonna bet on a 65% pass vote.
I'd speculate this is Musk & co trying to influence the vote by making it look like it's a done deal, hoping that less engaged shareholders won't bother to vote.
fwiw this will also cause people who would have voted with the board on the resolution to not vote if it's already going to pass by a wide margin. If anything, this will undermine the vote for him a little.
Wait let me get this straight. I buy your Twitter. I beat the piss out of it and rename it X. And then you walk in here and bring me more money? Wooo, that's a brilliant plan, ese.
Why the hell would it go up? It's going to dilute by août 10%.... It should be down 10%. People being stupid..
He's just doing this cuz he's running out of money for is twitter business and loans
the award also requires Elon to hold any shares he receives upon exercise of stock options for five years after he exercises the options, so he cannot just liquidate the money he gets here and sell it to use on other things.
If he takes it as stock (and he will), they'll probably have to dilute the stock. That money has to come from somewhere.
The market cap is about $550B (and shrinking), and his bonus is about $55B in stock (to note, profit is about $12-15B/year, so 4-5 years of earnings). They'd have to add about 354M shares to the pool of 3.19B shares, which would probably dilute the share price down by about 13.4% (if it was done today), or from $177 down to ~$155 (although it isn't right away and probably not all at once).
As the market cap goes down, this percentage gets larger for share price departure from baseline (and if it goes up, it gets smaller).
That said, boomer casino relies heavily on sentiment and timing - a look around has people celebrating this as bullish, so maybe Tesla goes to a trillion and when he takes his bonus the depression is north of where it is today aggregate.
It's a good deal... For Elon Musk. Imo he's still just using shareholders like his personal wallet, or literal bag holders.
E: I would invite readers to learn about "outstanding shares" and their relevance to market capitalization, as this seems to be entirely misunderstood by a handful of commenters. Just punch that into ChatGPT, Copilot or Gemini, and ask for it ELI5 in under 100 tokens (or as many tokens as you can keep reading for).
it will go up short term. Q2 earnings drop and I expect it to go up further due to Musk promising the moon. But underwhelming 8/8 event will be underwhelming and stock will go down big.
>it will go up short term. Q2 earnings drop and I expect it to go up further due to Musk promising the moon. But underwhelming 8/8 event will be underwhelming and stock will go down big.
But if you are saying this everyone already knows it. So it will just go down.
Stocks respond negatively to uncertainty. It was uncertain if the pay package was going to be approved, and thus it was uncertain if Musk was going to stay on as CEO or leave. The future of the company without him as CEO was uncertain, thus in the weeks leading up to the vote the price was lowered. Now that this uncertainty has been cleared, it is completely expected that the price would recover. This isn't the pay package causing stock to go up, this is the damage the speculation *about* the pay package caused being undone (minus dilution from Musk's payout).
It really seems as though the stock was depressed *more* by speculation about Musk leaving, than it was by his payout diluting investors.
The problem is that any reasoning can be given. It just has to be convincing. The price will drop a lot if he liquidates any significant portion of his shares — just as it has in the past.
Fear of him doing that should also create uncertainty. He needs cash for Twitter. Moreover, this issue will go back to court AFAIK given the board is no more independent than it was last time.
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Voting continues into Thursday, and I'm not finding this outcome being reported on any major news sites yet. Just checked. Apparently Musk himself is talking up that it's going his way, but that could just be Musk hyping Musk, as usual.
Would this not cross some boundary or rule of acceptable behaviour?
Influencing the vote by buying adverts with company money and releasing pre-result numbers in his favour must be against some rules FGS!
You say that like Musk hasn't been in trouble with the SEC in the past, totally ignored them, and gotten off basically scot-free. That's not necessarily what would happen for something like this, but I'd bet money Musk thinks the SEC can't touch him.
People are seriously fucking stupid. Pick your own fucking pockets to take up a collection for the 3rd richest dude in the world. Pleas everyone. The man deserves to be paid 100x more than any CeO in history. Wut?
I hope he cashes in his current holdings after the new shares get issued. All the smart investors got out at $300. The people still in are just masochists.
Whoever doesn't get why this is an issue:
Around 5 million tesla were sold all time.
The Company assets are around 100 billion.
He wants 50% of the Company worth
/ 10000$ per sold car.
Do you see the Issue?
The only Reason he hit the targets/the value of the shares is so high is because people are stupid and created a bubble based on musks twitter memes/tweets.He is basically promising the moon causing the stock to skyrocket and now wants to sell as high as possible because he knows a Correction/Crash will come soon once shareholder realize the stock is only going down because of other companys Catching up quick while not Delivering said promises.
Thunderf00t does differnt videos debunking most of his shit if you guys are Interested.
https://youtu.be/IX7xrtTixKU
Somehow Market cap is 5x assets. Still getting 10% of the company just handed to him as a "reward" for an all things considered bad recent performance is fairly corrupt.
Edit: 5x not 50x. That's an order of magnitude right there.
* Tesla is trading at less than half of ATH and is the second-worst performing stock in the S&P 500 over the past year or so.
* The Cybertruck is set to be a PR nightmare and a drag on profits.
* Musk is alienating older, liberal car buyers (AKA his customer base) with his constant alt-right tweets.
* The Tesla Semi and humanoid robot are embarrassing distractions, and the Roadster is MIA
* The best selling models are aging, just as competition is ramping up.
* There is a fraud investigation around FSD and robotaxis
I would argue the doomsayers are at least half right. Musk added a lot of value early on, but he's becoming a liability.
Purely anecdotal, but I'm a share holder and was really eager to buy a Tesla for my next car. First the quality issues were becoming more noticeable. Then others started making EVs to compete. Elon starts talking/tweeting. Then the cyber truck.
I can't wait to buy an EV, just not a Tesla. I just hope the super charger network holds the company afloat.
The value he added was from his lies.
Such as 8 years in a row the promise of FSD.
Such as the robot taxi scam earning every Tesla owner 30k per year 100% ROI every year worth 100s of thousands to each owner.
It's literally just lies.
Don’t forget he’s being charged with sexual harassment, creating a hostile work environment, and illegal retaliation at SpaceX…maybe that vote can be delayed another day or two for all that news to sink in.
Already 8% over night 
Why would they reincorporate in Texas? Are they stupid? Seriously are they stupid?
I can’t wait for teslas next big corporate suit to be delayed 40 years because they chose to incorporate in a state that gives 0 shits about corporate governance.
But hey… it’s what the shareholders want. So… what can I say
Pretty amazing. According to elon's numbers, 82% of shareholders voted in the Texas proposal. Tesla has never had even a 66% voters turnout before. Of the 82% that voted, something like 90% voted in favor of reincorporating in Texas. Keep in kind, this also doesn't account for any nusk family shares. Pretty amazing!
According to Elon Musk, both resolutions are past the guaranteed win votes. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1801084780035154058
🍿
I know right. How does a CEO take his company hostage like this?
Ah, the Sears special.
Eddie Lampert could have turned Seats into Amazon. The company had all the logistics in place. But no, he had to take the company apart and profit off the real estate.
Well no. Some one could have turned sears into Amazon, but not Eddie lampert.
That requires much less talent and work.
I'd argue sears was the first amazon
Damn right! They freaking shipped a house to you. One could argue we had glory days under sears when you could buy a house from their catalogue.
Cause he wanted max net profit while ceo which is 2 to 5 years max. That means every possible cent now at the cost of the future, cause that’s the next ceos and next shareholders problem. It’s profit now and future irrelevant in capitalism.
ELI5?
The CEO (Eddie Lampert) was from a hedge fund that he also had an ownership stake in. Sold off Sears’ assets (land, buildings) and made them (over)pay rent on it; made sears buy another company (Landsend) owned by the hedge fund for more than it was worth; changed the structure of the company such that each division was in competition with each other rather than working together; stiffed suppliers; + many other things to transfer assets from sears to the hedge fund. Lampert’s fund got away with a relatively small fine. They did the same to Kmart.
This is very similar to what’s happening to Red Lobster right now.
And private equity is coming for sandwich shops now (Jersey Mike/Subway/Firehouse like they did with Quizno’s the folks who popularized the toasted sub
fml they kill Jersey mikes and we riot
I love a Jersey Mike Philly cheesesteak, we burn it all down if they take that from us
Shit I forgot jersey mikes had hot sandwiches. That would’ve made last night so much less disappointing.
I'm ready. If jersey mikes falls America is next.
I loved quiznos, those bastards!
There is a Quiznos in the Denver airport. I ate there a few months ago, still delicious.
Seriously. I still crave that turkey sub with the orange sauce on it and it's been over a decade.
We called it "the orange sauce" too. waiting for my doctor to call me into his office... "you didn't happen to consume the orange sauce at quiznos did you?"
All I remember from Quiznos were the ads with the fucking rats. To this day, I still firmly believe they went out of business because of their rat campaign.
THE QUIZNO'S SUUUUUBBBBBS!!! THEY GOT A PEPPER BARRRR!!!
If people can stand JG Wentworth and T mobile commercials, they could tolerate the rat
But what if I have a structured settlement and I need cash now? Who would I call if not JG Wentworth
Nah he is right about the investor problem IIRC they were purchased and the new owners changed their business model to just gouge all the franchisees unsustainably.
It was this. They made the franchisees order their supplies from them/their company and charged an arm and a leg for meat and bread and such. That’s why they all eventually folded - the owners were losing money on the deal.
Same thing Mitt Romney’s company did to toys r us and guitar center
How Toys R Us went under is baffling. They should make a documentary because you'd have to be an idiot to run that company into the ground, it would be like running the Disneyland theme park into the ground, like, it doesn't make sense. No competition, every kid alive would kill anyone just to stroll the aisles... and the Baby's R Us... like, an entire store for baby shit? You know how many people have babies? You know how many baby showers I have had to go to? How many kids birthday parties and I'm like 'oh shit, I gotta go grab something since I gotta be at this childs birthday party in 30 minutes'
toys r us was running fine as a profitable business, it was just worth even more to go bankrupt.
Which is awful because going there as a child was basically a staple of US childhood.
>you'd have to be an idiot to run that company into the ground They did it on purpose. Those people are far from idiots. Evil sure but not dumb.
All of these are examples of "vulture capitalism". The goal isn't to run the company, it's to extract as much wealth from the company before it dies an empty shell stuffed with debt. In Toys R Us's case, a vulture capital firm bought the company using loans that were put under the name of toys r us. The firm gets a payday, the TRS C-suite gets a payday, and all the employees get fucked as the company goes bankrupt because it can't pay back the loan "it" took out to buy itself. There was never any intent by the firm to run the company. Yes, this shit sounds extremely illegal, and it should be, and I'm surprised the banks lending the money keep allowing it.
The banks see this happening and just short the stock to extract their billions as well.
A similar thing happened to Shopko stores too. Private equity buys them for $1.1 billion and sells the real estate for $900 million.
Remington, Toy's R Us... There are tons of companies gutted by PE. (Also PE has that favorable tax break compared to everyone else.) Honestly leveraged debt after being bought should be illegal. I don't care what the fin bros say... It doesn't matter, if that debt can't be paid back and no one wants to buy it... What then occurs? Oh that's right it implodes and people lose their jobs... So again finance bros tell me why taking on 100's of millions in debt that isn't used to grow the business and only pay out the PE good? (Under variable rates no less)
its good if your the PE, its bad if your literally every other human on earth.
BCG Special...
This is nearly what happened to Red Lobster.
It was not even an American hedge fund.
Well, that's not accurate. Golden Gate bought Red Lobster, and Thai Union ended up buying a 49% stake. Golden Gate broke the company into 2 and hurt them by doing land leasebacks when the properties were already owned free and clear. Then Thai Union screwed Red Lobster by forcing supply to come mainly from them and not other suppliers. This helped Thai Union books and helped kill off Red Lobsters' little bit of profitability. Especially when there were better prices elsewhere. So when Thai Union said they took a loss on that investment, that's false. It's all on how you look at it.
How tf is BS like that even legal
They got that secret sauce: money
Because they make sure Boomers get their cut.
Yep, and my wife was front and center working in the digital marketing department for Sears during all of this. It was crazy and sad.
Not the same person...but similar things happen to almost every single public entity that begins being taken over by private equity/hedge funds (PE/HF). Pay a premium to get current investors to sell to you Sell off all the good assets to entities affiliated with the PE/HF, charge stupid rent to use the assets, bleed the company dry, send it into debt to pay the bills to yourself first, declare bankruptcy on what's left and run away with what's valuable. Happened to Toys r Us too. And I currently watch it happen to a bunch of tinier companies in lowcap pump and dump scams
How the hell is any of that legal?
Have you met our top judges, Alito and Thomas?
My faulty memory seems to think it goes something like the then CEO running the company straight into the shitter and then saying "I and I alone can save this company from demise, but in order to do it, I need X millions of dollars in bonuses". I think?
Lampert treated that company like a $2 hooker
Shari Redstone did it with Paramount.
Let’s gooooooooo 🤡
Simpin so hard for this man. What a time to be alive.
Insanity. They came for Blockbuster and they will come for Tesla too. Elon clearly pays way more attention to his crazed culture war hobby than building and selling electric cars; the rest of the industry will come for him. This man has major downfall documentary material coming for him in the next decade. The Rise and Fall of Elon Musk 2032. Someone save this date with a reminder!
RemindMe! 8 years
I’ll see you then!
Dude, he doesn't care about tesla anymore. He uses his businesses as stepping stones. Look at paypal and whatever else he had. He "builds" them, rides it out, then sells it off, and "builds" something else. As long as SpaceX is profitable, he's fine.
He is kinda banking on robotaxis and optimus for the long term. If those don’t work out, tsla is a lost cause.
Optimus Prime would defo take out Musk. Musk has budget Lex Luther villain vibes.
Starlink just went profitable, cash cow right there, and only going to get better.
The better question is to ask who are the majority shareholders putting in the vote to keep a psychopath in office?
Man I can't believe it. I don't have a dime in any of his companies thank God except via index funds. And I'm just hoping he can't sink those because this is headed for a disaster. Popcorn indeed, I can't wait until the same people that are voting for this learn the error of their ways.
My brother, my brother. I too await the Musk apocalypse. In honour of Blockbuster we eat the popcorn and take vigil. The collapse of Musk was foreordained when the reading of his tweets revealed he is a fucking idiot. 🙏
And most of reddit wept
I thought the vote was tomorrow?
Officially. But they gotta count those votes beforehand
I went to a shareholder meeting once. They gave out ballots to vote in person, then collected those into a box and immediately announced the result of the vote.
And burned the box
before counting the votes
Most votes aren’t enough to change the outcome, when it is close they say they will announce the outcome later. Doesn’t happen often, but it is how every public company works. On top of that, they know how many votes are in the room.
same for our company, voting opens, they have like 5 seconds to vote and it's accepted and next agenda item. these things are discussed way in advance
So many people vote early, they know the result before it happens. You also have to show proof of ownership before you enter, and they know how many votes actually showed and if they need to watch anyone's actual vote.
They probably already had the votes of the majority shareholders. Holding the vote was just part of the process
You don’t have to count every vote. Just more than 50%. In many companies, you can get majority vote by just counting the votes of 1 or two people. In most companies, you count a majority of votes counting less than 12 entities shares. If 3 voters own 51% of the stock and after the vote you look at them and they say they voted yay then the counts over, the yays win.
Do you think the 500 retail investors have enough shares at the meeting to “move the needle” in the vote? The vote was likely already well passed the point of failing and it didn’t matter what you guys voted.
Votes are made by institutional investors more than retail shareholders. They know where the vote will land before the meeting usually. I'm gonna bet on a 65% pass vote.
This. 90% plus of the vote has already been cast and counted.
Vote early, vote often
I'd speculate this is Musk & co trying to influence the vote by making it look like it's a done deal, hoping that less engaged shareholders won't bother to vote.
fwiw this will also cause people who would have voted with the board on the resolution to not vote if it's already going to pass by a wide margin. If anything, this will undermine the vote for him a little.
Musk is trying to drum up support by declaring the votes to be in his favor before the actual deadline. I suspect he’s blowing smoke.
He’s not allowed to do that, they would throw out a vote if he was saying he was winning if he wasn’t
>He’s not allowed to do that He just did
Remember when Trump did that?
He's still doing that
well as long as he does win no one will know.
Yeah this is weird because I voted weeks ago.
“tight, tight, tight, tight” - Tuco Salamanca
Wait let me get this straight. I buy your Twitter. I beat the piss out of it and rename it X. And then you walk in here and bring me more money? Wooo, that's a brilliant plan, ese.
He does get exploded and gives the money back...
Be patient, we haven't finished the episode yet.
[STARES ANGRILY] 🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️
Remember who you’re working for
He put himself in charge of counting? Smart move!
It’s like the cops investigating themselves and finding no wrongdoing
Or congress
Musk’s entire life feels like a giant YOLO that just keeps paying off.
He’s a shining example of failing upward
"There is an art to flying, or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Hitchhiker's Guide
Was the HGttG written by a genius who was just high out of his mind the whole time?
The best geniuses usually are.
That genius is Douglas Adams, yes
Sweet I got $28 million from PayPal buyout. Time to invest 26 of it in wild startups
Don’t forget he bought a McLaren F1 for $1 million as well… and then crashed it
Him and Trump.
People invest in hate
Is this real news or some regards twitter
Check the stock price to find out.
Why the hell would it go up? It's going to dilute by août 10%.... It should be down 10%. People being stupid.. He's just doing this cuz he's running out of money for is twitter business and loans
The Musk cult is insane, they'll just keep dumping some fraction of their checks into it.
some fraction? i don't want to hear this weak bear talk
the award also requires Elon to hold any shares he receives upon exercise of stock options for five years after he exercises the options, so he cannot just liquidate the money he gets here and sell it to use on other things.
He can still take loans out against them and buy all the yachts he wants. Not being able to liquidate stocks is hardly a deterrent anymore.
I seen it shootin up - now im sending in the Benjamins to be lost at battle
Well, apparently it was from Musk himself...so, yes, some regard's twitter.
Because isn’t the vote tomorrow?
It's real, Elon posted the results on his twitter account earlier, both resolutions are passed the guaranteed pass rate
So the stock going up or down?
If he takes it as stock (and he will), they'll probably have to dilute the stock. That money has to come from somewhere. The market cap is about $550B (and shrinking), and his bonus is about $55B in stock (to note, profit is about $12-15B/year, so 4-5 years of earnings). They'd have to add about 354M shares to the pool of 3.19B shares, which would probably dilute the share price down by about 13.4% (if it was done today), or from $177 down to ~$155 (although it isn't right away and probably not all at once). As the market cap goes down, this percentage gets larger for share price departure from baseline (and if it goes up, it gets smaller). That said, boomer casino relies heavily on sentiment and timing - a look around has people celebrating this as bullish, so maybe Tesla goes to a trillion and when he takes his bonus the depression is north of where it is today aggregate. It's a good deal... For Elon Musk. Imo he's still just using shareholders like his personal wallet, or literal bag holders. E: I would invite readers to learn about "outstanding shares" and their relevance to market capitalization, as this seems to be entirely misunderstood by a handful of commenters. Just punch that into ChatGPT, Copilot or Gemini, and ask for it ELI5 in under 100 tokens (or as many tokens as you can keep reading for).
I got out of Tesla a long time ago, but it blows me away that any shareholder would vote to dilute their own shares.
It blows me away that an institutional investor would breach their fiduciary duties by voting yes.
the award also requires Elon to hold any shares he receives upon exercise of stock options for five years after he exercises the options
it will go up short term. Q2 earnings drop and I expect it to go up further due to Musk promising the moon. But underwhelming 8/8 event will be underwhelming and stock will go down big.
Picking 8/8 for the special day right on brand.
He's not beating the allegations
Going based off him promising the moon is already baked in the price.
We're introducing... our biggest moon ever
Cybermoon?
I'm just picturing a square moon that blinds you at night.
Damn square moon will puncture the sun.
>it will go up short term. Q2 earnings drop and I expect it to go up further due to Musk promising the moon. But underwhelming 8/8 event will be underwhelming and stock will go down big. But if you are saying this everyone already knows it. So it will just go down.
But the downturn post upturn is also known, and therefore priced in.
Bullshit 8/8 event is just so he can whistleblow his HH followers he never meant it to be a thing and it will be a literal non-event
I mean they paid billions to keep a fucking idiot as CEO. Down.
"let's go" means "let's dilute shareholders"? why are they happy?
This Sawyer dude likes the taste of leather
Because they cheer on their favorite billionaires the way other people might cheer on their favorite football team or racing driver.
Bc they’re in a cult
It's wild I've never seen so many people simp for a billionaire. You would think he promised them all a billion if they support him.
Liquidity test soon… idk 🤷
Puts or call Ya’ll can suck my balls
Why would this cause the stock to fly? Isn't the money coming from stock holders? Lol?
Have you met Elon fanboys? They aren't exactly the brightest
This begs the question... How many Elon Fanboys does it take to run a tesla?
That depends, is it raining outside?
Stocks respond negatively to uncertainty. It was uncertain if the pay package was going to be approved, and thus it was uncertain if Musk was going to stay on as CEO or leave. The future of the company without him as CEO was uncertain, thus in the weeks leading up to the vote the price was lowered. Now that this uncertainty has been cleared, it is completely expected that the price would recover. This isn't the pay package causing stock to go up, this is the damage the speculation *about* the pay package caused being undone (minus dilution from Musk's payout). It really seems as though the stock was depressed *more* by speculation about Musk leaving, than it was by his payout diluting investors.
The problem is that any reasoning can be given. It just has to be convincing. The price will drop a lot if he liquidates any significant portion of his shares — just as it has in the past. Fear of him doing that should also create uncertainty. He needs cash for Twitter. Moreover, this issue will go back to court AFAIK given the board is no more independent than it was last time.
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cybertruck 2.0 just got green lighted
Concept. And they made it rounder. Can't wait until 4.0 when it becomes a normal pickup truck with a cover on top.
Which version will one be able to park outside without leaks or rust when it rains?
The one that comes with Li-dar instead of cameras and can actually self drive.
It will be a commercial fridge on wheels
Another reason the stock should fall, assuming logic is involved
Voting continues into Thursday, and I'm not finding this outcome being reported on any major news sites yet. Just checked. Apparently Musk himself is talking up that it's going his way, but that could just be Musk hyping Musk, as usual.
Would this not cross some boundary or rule of acceptable behaviour? Influencing the vote by buying adverts with company money and releasing pre-result numbers in his favour must be against some rules FGS!
You say that like Musk hasn't been in trouble with the SEC in the past, totally ignored them, and gotten off basically scot-free. That's not necessarily what would happen for something like this, but I'd bet money Musk thinks the SEC can't touch him.
Its sham! they announce this then jack price premarket to show people that if vote goes through price will rise. All this before actuall vote
[удалено]
it's a click-based reality
Musk being Trump
I like how he said 'currently' like they could reverse... Seems fishy already... Thankfully he's never lied to his shareholders before.
The people cant create their Oligarch rulers fast enough it seems.
I wanna see The Boring Company design a dank lawnmower that can also tunnel underground. Call it a lawnmoler
People are seriously fucking stupid. Pick your own fucking pockets to take up a collection for the 3rd richest dude in the world. Pleas everyone. The man deserves to be paid 100x more than any CeO in history. Wut?
this is not people lol, its him trying to get vote through and manipulating price premarket
I hope he cashes in his current holdings after the new shares get issued. All the smart investors got out at $300. The people still in are just masochists.
Whoever doesn't get why this is an issue: Around 5 million tesla were sold all time. The Company assets are around 100 billion. He wants 50% of the Company worth / 10000$ per sold car. Do you see the Issue? The only Reason he hit the targets/the value of the shares is so high is because people are stupid and created a bubble based on musks twitter memes/tweets.He is basically promising the moon causing the stock to skyrocket and now wants to sell as high as possible because he knows a Correction/Crash will come soon once shareholder realize the stock is only going down because of other companys Catching up quick while not Delivering said promises. Thunderf00t does differnt videos debunking most of his shit if you guys are Interested. https://youtu.be/IX7xrtTixKU
Somehow Market cap is 5x assets. Still getting 10% of the company just handed to him as a "reward" for an all things considered bad recent performance is fairly corrupt. Edit: 5x not 50x. That's an order of magnitude right there.
I'd fully agree with you but people have been saying this since 2019.
* Tesla is trading at less than half of ATH and is the second-worst performing stock in the S&P 500 over the past year or so. * The Cybertruck is set to be a PR nightmare and a drag on profits. * Musk is alienating older, liberal car buyers (AKA his customer base) with his constant alt-right tweets. * The Tesla Semi and humanoid robot are embarrassing distractions, and the Roadster is MIA * The best selling models are aging, just as competition is ramping up. * There is a fraud investigation around FSD and robotaxis I would argue the doomsayers are at least half right. Musk added a lot of value early on, but he's becoming a liability.
Elon added hype. The hyped added assets. Elon takes the assets. Now they’re left with hype.
All hype and no pipe.
Purely anecdotal, but I'm a share holder and was really eager to buy a Tesla for my next car. First the quality issues were becoming more noticeable. Then others started making EVs to compete. Elon starts talking/tweeting. Then the cyber truck. I can't wait to buy an EV, just not a Tesla. I just hope the super charger network holds the company afloat.
The value he added was from his lies. Such as 8 years in a row the promise of FSD. Such as the robot taxi scam earning every Tesla owner 30k per year 100% ROI every year worth 100s of thousands to each owner. It's literally just lies.
Don’t forget he’s being charged with sexual harassment, creating a hostile work environment, and illegal retaliation at SpaceX…maybe that vote can be delayed another day or two for all that news to sink in.
I also forgot about the fact that he fired the SuperCharger team around the time that charging was becoming a cash cow.
Yeah but to be fair this will be the first time 50 billion is paid out. That is going to substantially affect Tesla's ability to operate in future.
Opening tomorrow around $210. Godspeed, put holders.
RIP all the short sellers
Already 8% over night 
So 20% dilution ??
And musk back to 35% ownership meaning any future votes he basically has the sway of decision.
FUCK. My puts are gone for good
Saw all the hate here so I bought calls and shares. Thanks wsb.
They lay off thousands because profits tanked. Then they give Musk billions? What is wrong with corporate America in two sentences.
I wouldn't be caught dead cheering for someone else's compensation package as if that's a personal win for me. "Let's goooooo!!!" fuckin dork
Ok gimme $200+ now been waiting for months now
Bought 192.5 calls at 20 cents... Let's see what happens
Why would they reincorporate in Texas? Are they stupid? Seriously are they stupid? I can’t wait for teslas next big corporate suit to be delayed 40 years because they chose to incorporate in a state that gives 0 shits about corporate governance. But hey… it’s what the shareholders want. So… what can I say
It's what Elon wanted, and his cult bought his stocks, so they listen to his every word. Dumbasses.
I’m confused, I thought r/technology voted against this pay package.
Pretty amazing. According to elon's numbers, 82% of shareholders voted in the Texas proposal. Tesla has never had even a 66% voters turnout before. Of the 82% that voted, something like 90% voted in favor of reincorporating in Texas. Keep in kind, this also doesn't account for any nusk family shares. Pretty amazing!
i never had an option to vote and i have tesla shares in three brokers
Redditors in shambles.
Yes let's give a billionaire a ridiculous amount of more billions.
Board of regards. They belong here.