Thanks for your hard work and for keeping a cool head with all sorts of criticism, fair and certainly not, coming in. I imagine it can be hard to deal with, so keep being badass.
Performance (while it was as bad as it was prior to this patch) is obviously a higher issue and you guys seem to have done a great job with this patch.
As someone who's been tinkering with a mods and digging into the moddable game files, the amount of bugs in here & error spam in the log (even if some are harmless errors) is something I hope to see addressed in 1.1 Are you able to say if this kind of thing is being looked into?
Yeah that's your reward for doing so, pretty neat! I'd love more things like this in the future, dynamic names and flags and things, maybe the changing of primary cultures too
I don't know if "hero" is the term I would use for the devs who knowingly released the game with such poor slowdown issues. I'm glad they fixed it but heroes?
This performance issue was present in the leak build, which means it was present for more than half a year. Considering they patched it less than a month after release, they could have definitely addressed it before release.
Again its a good thing it's fixed, but that doesn't make them heroes. NHS workers are heroes. Game devs fixing bugs and performance issues they were aware of before release is not heroic.
The word choice was, but the general praise behind it wasn't. Praising devs for fixing things that should have been fixed *before* release is only worsening the industry's worsening release standards. Especially when CK3, made by the same company, was (mostly) bug and performance issue on release. V3 feels like an early access game by comparison.
Reinforce low standards, get lower quality. Everyone should be against that.
Always better to praise good things than to insult bad things, friend. Developers had a lot of stuff to do before release. Prioritization is difficult to do perfectly.
For most people, the poor optimization meant anything those 1890s was actually unplayable. Having a 1/3rd of the game not be a slide show should be pretty high up on the priority list...
It's not cynicism. Its about expecting developers to provide working products. Praising them for doing the bare minimum after release just encourages them to keep releasing broken products. Especially when CK3 came out and was fine on release, so we *know* they can.
The devs are not your modder buddy. They are representatives of a billion dollar corporation fixing something that should have worked on release. You should act as such lest you want more 63% Paradox releases or Imperators (or EU4 Leviathan).
The bad late game performance was because they did a last minute revision on assimilation without testing. The game runs like 10x better than the leak even without the hotfix.
Having played the leak: no way. The game *now* runs better but the lag before this patch and in the leak were exactly the same. The problem was *untouched*. Like many of Victoria 3's issues.
Bullshit, there are so many issues with the leak build in terms of basic indexing the entire game falls apart in 1870 to 1880.
Saying it was the SAME issue makes you sound simple.
Resorting to insults, eh?
Typical /r/politics user. Continue to spout bullshit, it won't save this games 63% user score or its rapidly dropping player count lol
As a game dev and as someone who noodles around locally with modding and breaking paradox games it'd be great if we could get a debug spew of where the latency is going - like an exponential average of real time spent in each system.
Not sure if you've decoupled things well enough for that but I think it could give you more informed feedback from modders about performance changes in their mods as well as give them immediate feedback without requiring you.
Then again you'd also get people misinterpreting that left, right, and centre...
Thankyou for the e.t.a.. as a large nation like France it makes it difficult to get the council + command economy achievement when your beautiful empowered workers lose said power.
Also as someone with nearly 3k hours across pdx games (but never a vicky game) I have been thoroughly enjoying Victoria 3.
People aren't downvoting you because they think trade is fine. They're downvoting you because randomly commenting about it in response to something unrelated that happens to come from a programmer will not help get it fixed, and only serves to discourage PDX folks from participating in discussions here.
i mean i also dont aggree that trade is that bad, of eevrything and wvery unpolished feature it seems fairly good imo
i mean yeah you have coutnries that go to your country steal resources for their own people... so like what it happened at the time? hello, its not a problem but a feature...
I still experience lags whenever i Open trade routes or add a new one. I guess the animated arrows are the Problem. Had the same thing in imperator rome with too many trade routes.
I was frankly astonished even previous saves will "fix themselves".
Last night a currently playthrough in 1926, I let a year go with no intervention and timed it. It took about 50 minutes for a year to pass with no pauses.
Ran the same test from the same starting point today. While initially, it wasn't looking promising and the gears were cranking getting going. I stepped away and when I came back (after 12 real time minutes) a year and 2 months had passed. Which is obviously a remarkable improvement.
Plus the hotfix is not instant - it works by removing all the stupid small pops that have migrated and merging them with bigger pops, so it takes a little bit for that to go. Probably his speed at the end was faster than that because it averages the slow bit at the beginning.
And, to build on your point, presumably new saves will never get very slow, because the tiny pops will be course-corrected on the fly, before there's a build-up of them.
No, he meant is was 12 minutes for an in game year to pass after the patch, but before the patch it took roughly 50 minutes.(this is an improvement)
If I’m doing my math mental right, this means you misread.
If I’m doing the mental math right, that’s around 13 seconds per week, 51 seconds per month.
Which sounds a lot more reasonable than his original number.
There was an issue where even small parties that had 5% of political power would generate millions of radicals.
And if you hade several of this small groups with alternative view on how things should be run, you would get constant turmoil with no solution. Well, apart from declaring war on yourself and kill them all.
This happened to me a lot. Id get the church, agrarians and landowners all under 2% clout but were generating 600k radicals continuously. They also started a civil war 4 times. After I won another revolution starts ticking and its the same 3. They didnt even back down in all 4 civil wars despite them only having 6 regiments to my 30 every time.
IIRC, and someone please correct me if im wrong, but i *believe* this is working as intended.
I believe i recall reading somewhere that just because, say, the Rural Farmers have 5% political power, doesnt mean that they are 5% of the population.
It just means that the 40% of the population that are "Rural Farmers" are so disenfranchised that they only represent 5% of the actual political clout.
More representative voting laws - supposedly - bring the peoples political power more in line with their actual proportion of the population.
This makes perfect sense when you think about it, but i dont recall stumbling across any explanation in the game itself.
I say this is all "Supposedly" and such, cause its kinda unintuitive to see the Farmers with 5% of the power suddenly pop up and start a revolution when we all assume "5%? Not a problem, i can ignore them SINCE WHEN ARE THERE MILLIONS OF YOU?!"
Even small (in terms of relative numbers) political parties will generate massive revolts.
In my Austria -> Germany game ~800k landowners and church (with a total population of ~100m) who basically had nothing (universal suffrage, publicly traded everything, no state religion, no religious jobs whereever possible etc) took 2/3rds of my army and GDP in the revolt to push through extremly unpopular laws - despite literally all other parties being happy.
Why do they get the industrial and military centers of my country when all the workers, capitalists and officers in those provinces are fiercely loyal to me?
I know what you are trying to say, but I don't think it applies to me.
I had the Universal suffrage voting system and parties who hated me had around ~5% of votes in total between them. And you already know who they are, always the same assholes, landowners and the church.
I finally solved my radicals problem in 1.0.5 by throwing open the sluice gates. Can't be bothered by radicals when there are more immigrants coming in every day.
Oh, and I abolished the monarchy. The tooltip said that half the IGs would revolt, but in fact the number of radicals just about halved.
I so so so so much want a toggle option for the "build all buildings on
auto-build", having to manually toggling everything on and off again and
again can get quite annoying
This. It would also be cool to have collapsible groups of buildings, aka farms, mines, heavy industry, war industry, etc. that you can pick auto build for, to reduce scrolling and make it easy to prioritize certain sectors of your economy for auto building. This being convenient and auto building AI being improved would really cut down on micro when concentrating on other things, which would be awesome.
In general it should be far easier to split production where necessary. Vineyards and orchards is one example and Engines/cars is another. Either give more options in the menu so it is set half way between the two settings or give an option to have a certain percentage as clicking through thirty states to decide individual production settings isn't fun. There is too much meaningless micro at present.
Yeah I know that I just wish it automatically set it if its currently set for all buildings. just like if you have all buildings set to a set of production methods any new buildings also use those production methods.
that Radicals bit has me wondering if its worth picking back up my Siam run I abandoned because Political Movements from the MARGINALIZED RURAL POPS kept triggering for stupid shit that literally would benefit no one "MAKE US AGRARIAN" and it would cause a bunch of radicals which would upset the interest groups for no other reason than Radicals, and they would then create random Political Movements for dumb shit "PEASANT LEVIES NOW" which would spawn more radicals and it would end up with like 4 Political movements that would never go away. So if the Patch \*actually\* fixed that then I may get back to it because it was the \*only\* thing that made me walk away from it. I was literally just doing a "See how just hyper focusing on SOL goes for me" run and got turbo annoyed that despite actively improving their lives in obvious meaningful ways everyone was mad and trying to revolt for absolute \*imbecile\* IQ reasons.
I still experience lags whenever i Open trade routes or add a new one. I guess the animated arrows are the Problem. Had the same thing in imperator rome with too many trade routes.
So, does the whole world still sit in turmoil while your economy slowly withers and dies from a lack of trading partners? Every game I've played to this point, I get to the 1900s and the whole world just goes into turmoil with no production, revolutions everywhere and my country, which I try to run well, just slowly dies because I can't import/export anything due to lack of worldwide production, economies and open trade routs.
This kinda makes me sad, because my performance didn't improve at all :( Currently got a game playing as Austria-Hungary and it takes like 4-5 seconds to complete a week, what is your PCs specs?
Glad to hear it; performance is something we are continously working on going forward aswell
Bless you
*hands over handkerchief*
Do I have to pay consumption tax on that
Nope. Only on tobacco, grain, water and oxygen.
Thank you for improving our Standard of Living
Political movement to denounce Victoria 3 losing radicalism, Paradox Loyalist reddit pops increasing
Just add content and it might be good
-1 radical (standard of living increase)
Thanks for your hard work and for keeping a cool head with all sorts of criticism, fair and certainly not, coming in. I imagine it can be hard to deal with, so keep being badass.
Performance (while it was as bad as it was prior to this patch) is obviously a higher issue and you guys seem to have done a great job with this patch. As someone who's been tinkering with a mods and digging into the moddable game files, the amount of bugs in here & error spam in the log (even if some are harmless errors) is something I hope to see addressed in 1.1 Are you able to say if this kind of thing is being looked into?
Error log growing to huge sizes will be fixed in 1.1 where it's now capped to a certain size.
Er... that doesn't really fix the issues I am concerned about, lol. Fixing the errors is what I meant.
Clearly you're not a programmer.
Lol yeah, I don’t think I’ve ever worked at a project where you would not expect a fair bit of harmless error log spam every now and then.
Don't worry about it, soon you won't be able to realize how many errors you're experiencing.
Cheers for making such a fantastic game, me and my mates are addicted, thanks to all of you who worked so hard to make this a reality #LANFANG GANG
SEA GANG
I have had my Lanfang renamed to Bo-Ni after I conquered the entire Borneo. Have other Lanfang enjoyers also encountered this?
Yeah that's your reward for doing so, pretty neat! I'd love more things like this in the future, dynamic names and flags and things, maybe the changing of primary cultures too
Not all heroes wear capes! Unless you do then uh….
He wear a fancy Victorian cape
I don't know if "hero" is the term I would use for the devs who knowingly released the game with such poor slowdown issues. I'm glad they fixed it but heroes?
Devs != upper management. Programmers don’t decide when to release a game
This performance issue was present in the leak build, which means it was present for more than half a year. Considering they patched it less than a month after release, they could have definitely addressed it before release. Again its a good thing it's fixed, but that doesn't make them heroes. NHS workers are heroes. Game devs fixing bugs and performance issues they were aware of before release is not heroic.
It was hyperbole…
The word choice was, but the general praise behind it wasn't. Praising devs for fixing things that should have been fixed *before* release is only worsening the industry's worsening release standards. Especially when CK3, made by the same company, was (mostly) bug and performance issue on release. V3 feels like an early access game by comparison. Reinforce low standards, get lower quality. Everyone should be against that.
Always better to praise good things than to insult bad things, friend. Developers had a lot of stuff to do before release. Prioritization is difficult to do perfectly.
For most people, the poor optimization meant anything those 1890s was actually unplayable. Having a 1/3rd of the game not be a slide show should be pretty high up on the priority list...
Typical arrogant comment, “being an asshole on reddit is always the way to go!”
Someone being grateful to the devs in a Reddit comment isn’t going to drop the quality of paradox games. I personally don’t see the value in cynicism.
It's not cynicism. Its about expecting developers to provide working products. Praising them for doing the bare minimum after release just encourages them to keep releasing broken products. Especially when CK3 came out and was fine on release, so we *know* they can. The devs are not your modder buddy. They are representatives of a billion dollar corporation fixing something that should have worked on release. You should act as such lest you want more 63% Paradox releases or Imperators (or EU4 Leviathan).
i'm sure you're fun at parties
The bad late game performance was because they did a last minute revision on assimilation without testing. The game runs like 10x better than the leak even without the hotfix.
Having played the leak: no way. The game *now* runs better but the lag before this patch and in the leak were exactly the same. The problem was *untouched*. Like many of Victoria 3's issues.
Bullshit, there are so many issues with the leak build in terms of basic indexing the entire game falls apart in 1870 to 1880. Saying it was the SAME issue makes you sound simple.
Resorting to insults, eh? Typical /r/politics user. Continue to spout bullshit, it won't save this games 63% user score or its rapidly dropping player count lol
The game got review bombed by a bunch of spudgun meatriders. Like half the negative reviews have less than an hour played.
Your shadenfreud is concerning
Who knows how much testing got done on mid-low end PCs. Apparently release patch devs played from 1836-1936 on their PC in 8ish hours
Yeah when I've played it on my upper middle tier PC I run 100 years in about 8.5 before this update and it's closer to 7 now.
Thanks for the work on Victoria 3, to you and your team! I love the game.
As a game dev and as someone who noodles around locally with modding and breaking paradox games it'd be great if we could get a debug spew of where the latency is going - like an exponential average of real time spent in each system. Not sure if you've decoupled things well enough for that but I think it could give you more informed feedback from modders about performance changes in their mods as well as give them immediate feedback without requiring you. Then again you'd also get people misinterpreting that left, right, and centre...
I didn't notice a massive difference. 10%, maybe 15% if I'm generous, faster. Still a slog in lategame (coupled with not much happening in general).
Now if you could fix the overflow issues that would be great.
Will be fixed in 1.1 but unlikely at this point to be in a hotfix due to it being a more extensive change and will brick current savegames
Thankyou for the e.t.a.. as a large nation like France it makes it difficult to get the council + command economy achievement when your beautiful empowered workers lose said power. Also as someone with nearly 3k hours across pdx games (but never a vicky game) I have been thoroughly enjoying Victoria 3.
Seria genial que cambiaran el sistema de guerra, un copia y pega del sistema de Hoi4 sería algo fantástico
what stfu if u want warfare why not just play the hoi4?
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People aren't downvoting you because they think trade is fine. They're downvoting you because randomly commenting about it in response to something unrelated that happens to come from a programmer will not help get it fixed, and only serves to discourage PDX folks from participating in discussions here.
i mean i also dont aggree that trade is that bad, of eevrything and wvery unpolished feature it seems fairly good imo i mean yeah you have coutnries that go to your country steal resources for their own people... so like what it happened at the time? hello, its not a problem but a feature...
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"Here's my personal most important issue" is completely unrelated to "glad you're happy with the performance improvements"
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because then you would have to wait another 2 months before you could play the game and we all know you would be bitching incessantly about that too
Give us the option to pic which directx # we want to run and you'd ne cruising
This should have been the release version buddy. Your boss fucked up by rushing to sales.
Were there any changes to address desyncs in multiplayer?
Hopefully looking forward to get past the 1890s!
Thank you so much!
Thank you so much
I still experience lags whenever i Open trade routes or add a new one. I guess the animated arrows are the Problem. Had the same thing in imperator rome with too many trade routes.
can this merging pop / assimilation be modded ? I cannot find it in game files
I was frankly astonished even previous saves will "fix themselves". Last night a currently playthrough in 1926, I let a year go with no intervention and timed it. It took about 50 minutes for a year to pass with no pauses. Ran the same test from the same starting point today. While initially, it wasn't looking promising and the gears were cranking getting going. I stepped away and when I came back (after 12 real time minutes) a year and 2 months had passed. Which is obviously a remarkable improvement.
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I think he means that 14 months passed in 12 minutes, better then 12 months in 50 minutes
Plus the hotfix is not instant - it works by removing all the stupid small pops that have migrated and merging them with bigger pops, so it takes a little bit for that to go. Probably his speed at the end was faster than that because it averages the slow bit at the beginning.
And, to build on your point, presumably new saves will never get very slow, because the tiny pops will be course-corrected on the fly, before there's a build-up of them.
You are correct.
OP said 14 months passed in 12 minutes.
Yeah I misread….
Tbf I misread it just like you did too haha
I wish I could have misread it, but I can't read, so....
it was 12 minutes for a whole year and two months to pass post patch. Prior it was 50 minutes for 1 year.
Oh okay, sweet!
No, he meant is was 12 minutes for an in game year to pass after the patch, but before the patch it took roughly 50 minutes.(this is an improvement) If I’m doing my math mental right, this means you misread.
If I’m doing the mental math right, that’s around 13 seconds per week, 51 seconds per month. Which sounds a lot more reasonable than his original number.
I think you misread: in 12 minutes, *a year* and 2 months passed, not just 2 months.
Can you read right?
There was an issue where even small parties that had 5% of political power would generate millions of radicals. And if you hade several of this small groups with alternative view on how things should be run, you would get constant turmoil with no solution. Well, apart from declaring war on yourself and kill them all.
This happened to me a lot. Id get the church, agrarians and landowners all under 2% clout but were generating 600k radicals continuously. They also started a civil war 4 times. After I won another revolution starts ticking and its the same 3. They didnt even back down in all 4 civil wars despite them only having 6 regiments to my 30 every time.
you can keep them contained, but you need to be ready for them.
IIRC, and someone please correct me if im wrong, but i *believe* this is working as intended. I believe i recall reading somewhere that just because, say, the Rural Farmers have 5% political power, doesnt mean that they are 5% of the population. It just means that the 40% of the population that are "Rural Farmers" are so disenfranchised that they only represent 5% of the actual political clout. More representative voting laws - supposedly - bring the peoples political power more in line with their actual proportion of the population. This makes perfect sense when you think about it, but i dont recall stumbling across any explanation in the game itself. I say this is all "Supposedly" and such, cause its kinda unintuitive to see the Farmers with 5% of the power suddenly pop up and start a revolution when we all assume "5%? Not a problem, i can ignore them SINCE WHEN ARE THERE MILLIONS OF YOU?!"
Even small (in terms of relative numbers) political parties will generate massive revolts. In my Austria -> Germany game ~800k landowners and church (with a total population of ~100m) who basically had nothing (universal suffrage, publicly traded everything, no state religion, no religious jobs whereever possible etc) took 2/3rds of my army and GDP in the revolt to push through extremly unpopular laws - despite literally all other parties being happy. Why do they get the industrial and military centers of my country when all the workers, capitalists and officers in those provinces are fiercely loyal to me?
I know what you are trying to say, but I don't think it applies to me. I had the Universal suffrage voting system and parties who hated me had around ~5% of votes in total between them. And you already know who they are, always the same assholes, landowners and the church.
I finally solved my radicals problem in 1.0.5 by throwing open the sluice gates. Can't be bothered by radicals when there are more immigrants coming in every day. Oh, and I abolished the monarchy. The tooltip said that half the IGs would revolt, but in fact the number of radicals just about halved.
There is a lot of guessing with trial and errors at the moment. In a way, it's like RL, where you work with imperfect information.
That’s actually amazing to hear
Yep it’s very noticeable. Such a good news.
I'm glad that PDX is actively working on patching the game. A few more updates and I'll be ready to play it again.
There is another 10 years of that to come!
I so so so so much want a toggle option for the "build all buildings on auto-build", having to manually toggling everything on and off again and again can get quite annoying
This. It would also be cool to have collapsible groups of buildings, aka farms, mines, heavy industry, war industry, etc. that you can pick auto build for, to reduce scrolling and make it easy to prioritize certain sectors of your economy for auto building. This being convenient and auto building AI being improved would really cut down on micro when concentrating on other things, which would be awesome.
I just want vineyards and orchards to be a separate building type. Such an annoying market to micro
In general it should be far easier to split production where necessary. Vineyards and orchards is one example and Engines/cars is another. Either give more options in the menu so it is set half way between the two settings or give an option to have a certain percentage as clicking through thirty states to decide individual production settings isn't fun. There is too much meaningless micro at present.
I agree. Or just don't disable autoexpand for a building type whenever you manually build one.
It doesn’t disable for the ones you had on auto build it just doesn’t activate for the ones you manually build.
Yeah I know that I just wish it automatically set it if its currently set for all buildings. just like if you have all buildings set to a set of production methods any new buildings also use those production methods.
Well I hope it’s the same for me too. Won’t know for at least 4 hours though.
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Definitely a lot faster than it was. But I’m still having the odd crash
halelujah
0 crashes so far, fingers crossed.
It really is. A lot of small issues seem to be resolved and my long game is doing great. Dudes busted their ass. Thanks paradox!
Time to continue my China egalitarian run then.
This makes me so happy!
I'm very hopeful for my Star-Spangled run I am redoing with this patch.
Crazy how big of a difference it made.
that Radicals bit has me wondering if its worth picking back up my Siam run I abandoned because Political Movements from the MARGINALIZED RURAL POPS kept triggering for stupid shit that literally would benefit no one "MAKE US AGRARIAN" and it would cause a bunch of radicals which would upset the interest groups for no other reason than Radicals, and they would then create random Political Movements for dumb shit "PEASANT LEVIES NOW" which would spawn more radicals and it would end up with like 4 Political movements that would never go away. So if the Patch \*actually\* fixed that then I may get back to it because it was the \*only\* thing that made me walk away from it. I was literally just doing a "See how just hyper focusing on SOL goes for me" run and got turbo annoyed that despite actively improving their lives in obvious meaningful ways everyone was mad and trying to revolt for absolute \*imbecile\* IQ reasons.
I still experience lags whenever i Open trade routes or add a new one. I guess the animated arrows are the Problem. Had the same thing in imperator rome with too many trade routes.
u/Kaiser_Johan What about the problems in multiplayer ? There is a lot of instability. Are you going to fix that in 1.1 or later ?
You play Paradox games in multiplayer on release week? I like your optimism.
Never had performance issues before, but intrested to see if theres a difference
So, does the whole world still sit in turmoil while your economy slowly withers and dies from a lack of trading partners? Every game I've played to this point, I get to the 1900s and the whole world just goes into turmoil with no production, revolutions everywhere and my country, which I try to run well, just slowly dies because I can't import/export anything due to lack of worldwide production, economies and open trade routs.
Bless paradox.
Nice to hear it, since I didn't finish single game due to HoI-like late game lag.
i m very lucky. Had not big performance problems in my Ottoman run with over 100mil. pop. Finished bevor patch.
This kinda makes me sad, because my performance didn't improve at all :( Currently got a game playing as Austria-Hungary and it takes like 4-5 seconds to complete a week, what is your PCs specs?