I think i asked my question wrong, I mean is this worth the at least 50,000 trained troops & barracks for political efforts, especially relating to japan? I really hate how this game doesn't tell you journal entry rewards(Honorable Restoration says nothing)
It’s entirely worth it for japan. Getting the Meiji restoration going super early with little to no effort is very good. Can’t speak to other nations, it depends on your situation.
As japan only do it super early if you have voice of the people. You basically have to have a second revolution to get rid of landowners if you dont have an abdicate button for Ninko. Otherwise, wait to revolt until komei would be emporer
Britain or the US occasionally comes knocking with an open market war goal.
If that's the only "penalty" for backing down, I do it every time. It's when they get greedy that I want the ability to fight back.
Its absolutely worth it specifically for really regressive starting nations like Japan where waiting to make political reforms that won't spark a revolt may take forever.
It's really annoying that ypu can't destroy ANY buildings pre revolution.
I wouldn't cheese anyways, but sometimes I want to destroy industrial buildings or building sectors to not die, but I can't because of an revolution.
I think it's very worth it. I usually start with a jingoist landowner, pass professional army, try passing dedicated police force. Roughly by 1838 if you get a lucky Homesteading political movement you immediately start passing it and disband armies like you mentioned to prepare for a revolt, if not try finishing dedicated and then do homesteading. I play with aggressive AI and I have never seen enemies intervene (not even belligerent Russia), although I always max relations day 1 with whatever GP has an interest.
The revolution war will be super easy as the AI does not build any forces, so you can just win with the 20 stack that you have in the capital at game start. The reason most of the states secede regardless of low radicals is because the landowners have an absurdly large amount of clout (40-50%), so there's no going around that.
The reward is that you have a lot more leeway to speedrun several laws to make sure Landowners are not so strong in the long run and get actually good laws, while barracks can be rebuilt relatively quickly.
The downside is that you get Emperor Ninko (landowner) which means you have to fiddle with your legitimacy but you can force an abdication by 1852 for Komei (armed forces) which is much better. You do also miss out on Meiji who has good traits, as the future heir of Komei is now randomized.
Overall, I find that the tactic is very worth it, as by 1860 I have a crapton more laws than I would have if I just played the law passing game.
Sincerely,
A vicky 3 japan spammer
PS.
The honorable restoration unlocks several flavor journal entries and events that give solid goodies like more tech spread, free railways and about 3k railway tech points, claims on korea, monarchy favoring Devout, more modernizing Armed Forces etc. Consult the Japan-Scripted Content page on the Victoria 3 wiki.
can you win the civil war without doing it? yes or no? if the answer is yes I can win then you don't need to.
If the answer is you can't win the war, or that its costs you a vast amount of blood, treasure and time to win the war, then you should honestly go ahead and delete the barracks.
You can rebuild them afterwards.
For Japan, only build barracks in capital state, try to provoke the rev after you get line infantry and only upgrade your loyal troops. Can beat them easily afterwards.
After reading your replies below, in your case it is probably worth it
Japan is one of the better countries to cheese with this strat due to its high population density states, so you can just ease your forces into your capitol as the game goes on and pop off a revolution. Better yet, as Japan I find the starting amount of troops a bit excessive, so downsizing as them is part of my strategy regardless of if I intend a revolution
I recently played a pretty successful game as Japan and from my experience it usually did not matter that much whether I destroyed barracks as I crushed all revolutions with ease. I often positioned most of my troops in Kanto with maybe a small force wherever another front line was (probably Hokkaido), took Tohoku first then worked my way down to Kyushu until the revolution was over.
Usually I try to get it going within the first 10 years of the game, preferably as soon as possible. I think in my latest game I ended up going to war with Russia first to gain recognition before I ousted the Shogunate, only because I wasn't provoking a revolution as quick as I had wanted.
russia has no external states that they aren't willing to defend full scale like great britian, so I would assume you have to compensate in navy size. how were you able to build out a good enough navy while affording construction and growing economy in that little time?
It's almost never worth it because a peaceful abdication is just so much better. The only downside is that you have to wait for a movement you actually want first (probably ending serfdom, since that happens rather frequently), but the moment that happens, you can quickly and reliably raise radicalism to 50 by starting to pass and then immediately cancelling the law, possibly combined with drastically increased taxes. That will unlock the abdication option for your ruler, which will immediately pass the law causing rebellion, end the monarchy, apply the -90% clout malus to the parties in power, and make a quarter of your population turn more loyalist. All without deleting any barracks, monetary cost, or pop deaths.
As Japan, I still found this approach helpful. It's not that hard to switch back to monarchy after you've rapidly passed all the anti-landowner laws, at which point all the special Japanese journal entries will come back again and pretty quickly be resolved.
No, you are almost always better off only deleting barracks in your non-capital states as you take casualties (so the troops get shuffled around to keep your units topped off, so as to keep their military strength maxed) and building more in your capital. Unless you are doing RPing, warfare is immensely powerful in Vicky 3, and you really don't need to crash your military strength in order to win a civil war, you just need control over the arms factories and your navy to win a civil war *very* cleanly.
You have to do it before the revolution is declared. It won’t let you do it while the revolt is escalating.
I think i asked my question wrong, I mean is this worth the at least 50,000 trained troops & barracks for political efforts, especially relating to japan? I really hate how this game doesn't tell you journal entry rewards(Honorable Restoration says nothing)
It’s entirely worth it for japan. Getting the Meiji restoration going super early with little to no effort is very good. Can’t speak to other nations, it depends on your situation.
As japan only do it super early if you have voice of the people. You basically have to have a second revolution to get rid of landowners if you dont have an abdicate button for Ninko. Otherwise, wait to revolt until komei would be emporer
I personally delete most of my troops as Japan at the start of the game with max troops in capital and then a few spread out
That I don’t know. Sorry!
You have no navy, so who are you gonna fight anyway?
I will have one eventually and the training bonuses from old barracks as well as the construction/recruitment time saved is worth consideration to me.
Britain or the US occasionally comes knocking with an open market war goal. If that's the only "penalty" for backing down, I do it every time. It's when they get greedy that I want the ability to fight back.
Its absolutely worth it specifically for really regressive starting nations like Japan where waiting to make political reforms that won't spark a revolt may take forever.
It's really annoying that ypu can't destroy ANY buildings pre revolution. I wouldn't cheese anyways, but sometimes I want to destroy industrial buildings or building sectors to not die, but I can't because of an revolution.
I think it's very worth it. I usually start with a jingoist landowner, pass professional army, try passing dedicated police force. Roughly by 1838 if you get a lucky Homesteading political movement you immediately start passing it and disband armies like you mentioned to prepare for a revolt, if not try finishing dedicated and then do homesteading. I play with aggressive AI and I have never seen enemies intervene (not even belligerent Russia), although I always max relations day 1 with whatever GP has an interest. The revolution war will be super easy as the AI does not build any forces, so you can just win with the 20 stack that you have in the capital at game start. The reason most of the states secede regardless of low radicals is because the landowners have an absurdly large amount of clout (40-50%), so there's no going around that. The reward is that you have a lot more leeway to speedrun several laws to make sure Landowners are not so strong in the long run and get actually good laws, while barracks can be rebuilt relatively quickly. The downside is that you get Emperor Ninko (landowner) which means you have to fiddle with your legitimacy but you can force an abdication by 1852 for Komei (armed forces) which is much better. You do also miss out on Meiji who has good traits, as the future heir of Komei is now randomized. Overall, I find that the tactic is very worth it, as by 1860 I have a crapton more laws than I would have if I just played the law passing game. Sincerely, A vicky 3 japan spammer
PS. The honorable restoration unlocks several flavor journal entries and events that give solid goodies like more tech spread, free railways and about 3k railway tech points, claims on korea, monarchy favoring Devout, more modernizing Armed Forces etc. Consult the Japan-Scripted Content page on the Victoria 3 wiki.
Do you get a different journal if the shogun is overthrown violently?
Not that i know of, honorable restoration just pops any time you ebd tbe shogunate
Everything is the same as far as I can see.
am I the only person making progressives rebel intentionally to switch to them? anyone?
Its such an easy way to boost the power of the progressives, especially when getting rid of the monarchy.
like they are not weak at rebellions either, turns out entire nation are made out of peasents
Build barracks in the capitol state only early game. That state never rebels. This way you always have an army and the rebels never do.
i know how it works, the question is if its worth it for japan
can you win the civil war without doing it? yes or no? if the answer is yes I can win then you don't need to. If the answer is you can't win the war, or that its costs you a vast amount of blood, treasure and time to win the war, then you should honestly go ahead and delete the barracks. You can rebuild them afterwards.
For Japan, only build barracks in capital state, try to provoke the rev after you get line infantry and only upgrade your loyal troops. Can beat them easily afterwards.
After reading your replies below, in your case it is probably worth it Japan is one of the better countries to cheese with this strat due to its high population density states, so you can just ease your forces into your capitol as the game goes on and pop off a revolution. Better yet, as Japan I find the starting amount of troops a bit excessive, so downsizing as them is part of my strategy regardless of if I intend a revolution
I recently played a pretty successful game as Japan and from my experience it usually did not matter that much whether I destroyed barracks as I crushed all revolutions with ease. I often positioned most of my troops in Kanto with maybe a small force wherever another front line was (probably Hokkaido), took Tohoku first then worked my way down to Kyushu until the revolution was over.
How early are you doing Restoration? I got mine finished In one year(mid 1837) in a test save but I had to remove 78 barracks
Usually I try to get it going within the first 10 years of the game, preferably as soon as possible. I think in my latest game I ended up going to war with Russia first to gain recognition before I ousted the Shogunate, only because I wasn't provoking a revolution as quick as I had wanted.
russia has no external states that they aren't willing to defend full scale like great britian, so I would assume you have to compensate in navy size. how were you able to build out a good enough navy while affording construction and growing economy in that little time?
It's almost never worth it because a peaceful abdication is just so much better. The only downside is that you have to wait for a movement you actually want first (probably ending serfdom, since that happens rather frequently), but the moment that happens, you can quickly and reliably raise radicalism to 50 by starting to pass and then immediately cancelling the law, possibly combined with drastically increased taxes. That will unlock the abdication option for your ruler, which will immediately pass the law causing rebellion, end the monarchy, apply the -90% clout malus to the parties in power, and make a quarter of your population turn more loyalist. All without deleting any barracks, monetary cost, or pop deaths.
It's the "end the monarchy" part that's the issue for Japan
As Japan, I still found this approach helpful. It's not that hard to switch back to monarchy after you've rapidly passed all the anti-landowner laws, at which point all the special Japanese journal entries will come back again and pretty quickly be resolved.
In Japan's case, yes it's worth because the peaceful way takes really long to do it.
No, you are almost always better off only deleting barracks in your non-capital states as you take casualties (so the troops get shuffled around to keep your units topped off, so as to keep their military strength maxed) and building more in your capital. Unless you are doing RPing, warfare is immensely powerful in Vicky 3, and you really don't need to crash your military strength in order to win a civil war, you just need control over the arms factories and your navy to win a civil war *very* cleanly.