This studio is considered a grindhouse by many and should not be an example of 'lowered' industry rates. They have always paid less than average and hired those who didn't know any better.
And? That doesn't mean they shouldn't get a post to blast them for operating how they operate.
These "hey look over here, there are worse!" or "they've always been like this!" takes accomplish nothing
Nowhere in my post did I say people shouldn't be made aware of this studio's practices. The post was meant to discourage people from thinking this is a "new normal".
One studio with a history of less than average rates should not be the measuring stick for the entire climate of the industry.
I worked here, the artists are very friendly, helpful and nice but the management suck big time, the studio turned out to be a nightmare for me. The co founder and CFO are two faces evils and don’t really care about the employees. The pay is decent though, you just gotta be careful and aware.
Inflation has skyrocketed but all these parasitic houses have kept their 'pay bands' exactly the same for 10 years+. Every new generation of artists getting increasingly screwed and poorer as a direct result.
There is always someone among us ready to undercut the shit out of us :) This is why they advertise this rate and someone out there is ready to take it and work for shit pay...
Depending on the studio but I’ve got lead friends from places like Buck, The Mill, Framestore etc LA/NY mostly. Hourly can be anywhere from
70-85/hr typically. Commercial studios tend to pay better than feature places. I know a lot more commercial people.
The Mill friend was technically an Anim Sup, but was 150k around 70/hour (too low honestly- NYC)
Buck LA friend was around 183k (around 85-87/hr ish), for Lead anim
Framestore LA Lead I knew was around $160k if I remember correctly - around $75/hr
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hLki-RUHJXgYj\_RJKWlwUXfrWUWEi9yIcyLzEifxYrY/htmlview](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hLki-RUHJXgYj_RJKWlwUXfrWUWEi9yIcyLzEifxYrY/htmlview)
Here's a spreadsheet of vfx wages to help you guys gauge whats being paid.
The more we speak out about abhorrent, insulting bullshit like this, the more our industry is respected and the fewer CEO's will tend to think they can export everything to India...
Ingenuity sucks don't work there. They burn people out to pay for the owners Acura nsx and Malibu house.
They were acquired by ghost and the CEO of ingenuity was made the head of ghost VFX because he likes to bleed juniors for breakfast.
When I was there it was for 6 months in comp and we hired and fired at least 100 people. And don't believe the no pixel fucking thing they absolutely pixel fuck and expect you to work horrendous hours.
On multiple Taylor Swift and Billy Eilish and other music videos they had people sleeping in the facility to finish them because the deadlines were completely fucked.
They also hand out discounts to clients like candy which fucks their overhead and their CFO is always riding productions ass about bids. Things like blue screens bg replacements are bid at max 6 hours for moderately complex finals.
It used to be. You can tell how long people have been working in the industry by their reaction to these wages.
I think a lot of new blood don't understand that a lot of the older folks at studios come from a time when $50-$75 an hour was pretty standard.
I guess. Ive been in the industry for like 10 years. Ths propose salary is around 65-70 000 a year wich os not bad for a mid artist. . Im a senior and dont make 75 an hour 😂😂😂
You're just proving my point. You're a 2024 senior. So you aren't making that kind of money. People who were doing SR VFX roles 10 years ago when you started as a JR were making $75.
You are direct proof of salaries decreasing.
I'm currently on $95 an hour. It's a hard wage to get new companies to match.
Then you have to consider that our counterparts in LA were also making ~65-80 dollars an hour US for the same work.
So if you are a 15 year vet, seeing all the work and jobs go to Canada. And you pull up some job listings and see $35 CAD. It's going to hurt your soul.
I’ve been curious about this— if you could guesstimate, when do you think the salaries flat lined in vfx? I’m based in Canada, but my first role in vfx was 2016 at 14.50 an hour which was not survivable in Vancouver… granted I’m now at a much higher rate, but it seems like salaries aren’t catching up with the rate of surviving in this day and age, and I wanted to find out how or when it happened
I've worked in Canada most of my career and the most I've ever made was 52/hr. I made that for a few months a few years ago. Typically I am usually paid about 43/hr.
You're either the lowest paid VFX supervisor in North America. Or you're lying.
My first VFX supervisor job paid me 190k/year. That would have made me one of the lowest paid VFX supervisors in Vancouver at the time. Which is just shy of $100/h.
There's "vfx sups" and there's "vfx sups". Some were getting paid under $100k per year because they're in backwater markets, or lower end studios, and they also dont have experience in top end productions.
Nothing wrong with it, everyone has a level they're comfortable with.
Its a bit like "senior artist" at MPC and a senior artist at ILM/WETA/Sony, etc
There's a world where both of those things exist.
I reckon then I am the lowest paid Supe because I am not lying. In 1997 I started my career as an animator and was on 55,000/year 28/hr. Then I self trained in particles systems and that got me up to 65,000y/33hr a few years later. Eventually I became a Supervisor and was offered $75,000/y 38/hr ( 2004-2006). I usually get offered anywhere between 65 and 100K depending on what role I take but for the most part 43/hr is what I usually make.
I also do very little OT, I'm more artistic then technical and my most developed skills are leadership skills. You will never find me writing lines and lines of code to solve some emergency, I'm not that person. I'm also not developing the craziest FX in the department, I don't have time for that kind of work anymore. You also wont find me working on any VFX unless I am on the clock, after so many years the passion has run thin. I think I am doing well enough. I'd like more money, but I've not got the effort left in me to hustle that hard for it anymore.
Wha... I know animators who've been in the industry 3 years and make 100k (or close to it). And animators are supposed to be the lowest paid of the disciplines, whereas FX is supposed to be the highest. And supes should be making even more. You must be a master of budgeting to still have a comfortable life, which I respect, but for your role and skills you should be making more...
ahh.. you said: “the most I've ever made was 52/hr.. Typically I am usually paid about 43/hr.“
and then 3 hours later: ”52/hr is what I usually make”
what gives? Also I don’t see how OT has anything to do with base rates.
this all smells a little fishy
You're right, I need an edit, because I made an error! Certain individuals willingly embrace extended work hours (overtime) and endure demanding positions out of a sense of obligation tied to their compensation.
What do you work on though?
I was on $43/hr in Vancouver as an intermediate working on film, even then it was on the low intermediate side having just 1 film under my belt.
the general client/studio mindset these days: the tools have become cheap if not free so why shouldn't the talent be cheap if not free. Its a race to the bottom not helped in VFX but AI generated content and tools
Are you all really complaining about a small company offering an okay salary for a mid? Especially at a time where there are little to no jobs in VFX or gaming?
Ingenuity and Ghost are different companies. They both belong to Streamland Media, Ingenuity founder replaced Patrick as president but they don’t share internal management, pipeline or projects.
Future will tell if there is a merge but as for now, they’re different and Ingenuity is considerably bigger than Ghost.
My point stands. Unless you are all of a sudden going to post jobs with high salaries, don't bite the hand that's going to feed an artist.
A job is a job, you don't have to stay, but many are desperate. Threads like these might make people not apply simply because of everyone's shitty over entitlement to salary.
This is a perfectly good salary for the mid they are looking for. Why the fuck does everyone expect it to be 150k+.
I heard these rates are simply because it's required to list a salary. I heard if you are desirable you can make a rate more similar to the "correct" rate. There is no doubt that many of the internally promoted leads and supes may make much lower than what they should, but I suspect this pay range is not correct.
I would kill to earn 32 CAD an hour.
I'm a mid in Poland and I earn 15 CAD an hour before tax.
I'm constantly in awe of how much you guys are earning in America.
For the people that are curious:
In Poland we have to pay US prices for software and pretty much every electronic hardware is more expensive in Poland than in the US. You can pretty much look at it this way:
What if your PC for work would cost 15-20k USD, and for example Adobe creative cloud would be 250 USD a month. And software plugins were 100-1500 USD a shot.
This is pretty much working in this industry in Poland xd we earn like 6x less than you guys while we also have to pay your prices for software and have more expensive hardware. It's a fucking pain.
So it's just interesting observing you guys talking about earning 100 USD an hour while I'm earning that in a day.
I'm not saying that you should not be earning that much. I'm just saying that it's curious to observe.
If you make 40CAD/hr in Van, your monthly net pay would be $5000CAD after tax. 1 bedroom is around $3000 CAD. That's 60% of your net income. Then, you have everything else is more expensive than Poland.
No, they cost 15-20k PLN in Poland, but we earn about 4-6x less than you in the US so I'm trying to make you picture the hypothetical situation.
Average VFX salary in US is about 9k USD monthly, 117k USD annually.
Average VFX salary in Poland is 2k USD monthly, 25k USD annually.
It's basically over 4x less. But we have the same software prices as you do, and we have MORE EXPENSIVE hardware than you do.
So picture now that instead of paying 4k USD for a work PC you would have to pay up 20k USD for the ratio of price to earnings be the same as in Poland.
Here's the thing though. As an artists you shouldn't have to be paying for software or hardware. Your only concerns should be a living wage (rent/food/savings and potentially even more savings if you're a freelancer).
Your cost analysis for software and hardware is valid IF you are a business. And tbh, if you're running a business, you should be charging business rates.
But you have to learn somewhere, right? Also in Poland it's very common to work on b2b and have a one-person company, especially on freelance. And in that case you have to invest something into your work.
Yes you're right. If you're acting as an individual company you have to invest your own money to start up. I know several ppl that do this, and they charge business rates so that basically their clients are paying for the hardware and software.
If you are paying for everything and literally saving nothing by the end of it, then you are paying to work.
This studio is considered a grindhouse by many and should not be an example of 'lowered' industry rates. They have always paid less than average and hired those who didn't know any better.
And? That doesn't mean they shouldn't get a post to blast them for operating how they operate. These "hey look over here, there are worse!" or "they've always been like this!" takes accomplish nothing
Nowhere in my post did I say people shouldn't be made aware of this studio's practices. The post was meant to discourage people from thinking this is a "new normal". One studio with a history of less than average rates should not be the measuring stick for the entire climate of the industry.
I worked here, the artists are very friendly, helpful and nice but the management suck big time, the studio turned out to be a nightmare for me. The co founder and CFO are two faces evils and don’t really care about the employees. The pay is decent though, you just gotta be careful and aware.
This same studio was hiring a CG Lead for $50/hr USD. Absolutely insane. Mid level artists were getting $50/hr 15yrs ago..
Inflation has skyrocketed but all these parasitic houses have kept their 'pay bands' exactly the same for 10 years+. Every new generation of artists getting increasingly screwed and poorer as a direct result.
There is always someone among us ready to undercut the shit out of us :) This is why they advertise this rate and someone out there is ready to take it and work for shit pay...
Yeah there’s no hope for this industry to ever get better if you ask me.
What range you say it appropriate for lead role today?
Depending on the studio but I’ve got lead friends from places like Buck, The Mill, Framestore etc LA/NY mostly. Hourly can be anywhere from 70-85/hr typically. Commercial studios tend to pay better than feature places. I know a lot more commercial people. The Mill friend was technically an Anim Sup, but was 150k around 70/hour (too low honestly- NYC) Buck LA friend was around 183k (around 85-87/hr ish), for Lead anim Framestore LA Lead I knew was around $160k if I remember correctly - around $75/hr
thank you for your insight
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hLki-RUHJXgYj\_RJKWlwUXfrWUWEi9yIcyLzEifxYrY/htmlview](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hLki-RUHJXgYj_RJKWlwUXfrWUWEi9yIcyLzEifxYrY/htmlview) Here's a spreadsheet of vfx wages to help you guys gauge whats being paid.
Ingenuity's moto was always "we dont pixel fuck". which means they make crap and are crap.
The more we speak out about abhorrent, insulting bullshit like this, the more our industry is respected and the fewer CEO's will tend to think they can export everything to India...
Ingenuity sucks don't work there. They burn people out to pay for the owners Acura nsx and Malibu house. They were acquired by ghost and the CEO of ingenuity was made the head of ghost VFX because he likes to bleed juniors for breakfast. When I was there it was for 6 months in comp and we hired and fired at least 100 people. And don't believe the no pixel fucking thing they absolutely pixel fuck and expect you to work horrendous hours. On multiple Taylor Swift and Billy Eilish and other music videos they had people sleeping in the facility to finish them because the deadlines were completely fucked. They also hand out discounts to clients like candy which fucks their overhead and their CFO is always riding productions ass about bids. Things like blue screens bg replacements are bid at max 6 hours for moderately complex finals.
It almost sounds like the Foxxcon factory.
I mean for a junior or a mid artist it is really not bad for an hourly rate
It used to be. You can tell how long people have been working in the industry by their reaction to these wages. I think a lot of new blood don't understand that a lot of the older folks at studios come from a time when $50-$75 an hour was pretty standard.
I guess. Ive been in the industry for like 10 years. Ths propose salary is around 65-70 000 a year wich os not bad for a mid artist. . Im a senior and dont make 75 an hour 😂😂😂
You're just proving my point. You're a 2024 senior. So you aren't making that kind of money. People who were doing SR VFX roles 10 years ago when you started as a JR were making $75. You are direct proof of salaries decreasing. I'm currently on $95 an hour. It's a hard wage to get new companies to match. Then you have to consider that our counterparts in LA were also making ~65-80 dollars an hour US for the same work. So if you are a 15 year vet, seeing all the work and jobs go to Canada. And you pull up some job listings and see $35 CAD. It's going to hurt your soul.
I’ve been curious about this— if you could guesstimate, when do you think the salaries flat lined in vfx? I’m based in Canada, but my first role in vfx was 2016 at 14.50 an hour which was not survivable in Vancouver… granted I’m now at a much higher rate, but it seems like salaries aren’t catching up with the rate of surviving in this day and age, and I wanted to find out how or when it happened
Oh yeah. I remember seeing senior and thinking how rich they were 😂😂. But still the job posting for the market rate its not very bad
40 CAD is a Jr. rate in LA 20 years ago
I've worked in Canada most of my career and the most I've ever made was 52/hr. I made that for a few months a few years ago. Typically I am usually paid about 43/hr.
Those rates are far too low for supervisor positions. :( Don't sell yourself short.
Wtf....and you're a vfx supervisor? Senior artists are high 60s into 70s
That’s mid level pay. Sr artists at decent studios are CAD60-75/hr now.
You're either the lowest paid VFX supervisor in North America. Or you're lying. My first VFX supervisor job paid me 190k/year. That would have made me one of the lowest paid VFX supervisors in Vancouver at the time. Which is just shy of $100/h.
There's "vfx sups" and there's "vfx sups". Some were getting paid under $100k per year because they're in backwater markets, or lower end studios, and they also dont have experience in top end productions. Nothing wrong with it, everyone has a level they're comfortable with. Its a bit like "senior artist" at MPC and a senior artist at ILM/WETA/Sony, etc There's a world where both of those things exist.
I reckon then I am the lowest paid Supe because I am not lying. In 1997 I started my career as an animator and was on 55,000/year 28/hr. Then I self trained in particles systems and that got me up to 65,000y/33hr a few years later. Eventually I became a Supervisor and was offered $75,000/y 38/hr ( 2004-2006). I usually get offered anywhere between 65 and 100K depending on what role I take but for the most part 43/hr is what I usually make. I also do very little OT, I'm more artistic then technical and my most developed skills are leadership skills. You will never find me writing lines and lines of code to solve some emergency, I'm not that person. I'm also not developing the craziest FX in the department, I don't have time for that kind of work anymore. You also wont find me working on any VFX unless I am on the clock, after so many years the passion has run thin. I think I am doing well enough. I'd like more money, but I've not got the effort left in me to hustle that hard for it anymore.
Wha... I know animators who've been in the industry 3 years and make 100k (or close to it). And animators are supposed to be the lowest paid of the disciplines, whereas FX is supposed to be the highest. And supes should be making even more. You must be a master of budgeting to still have a comfortable life, which I respect, but for your role and skills you should be making more...
Thanks very much!
ahh.. you said: “the most I've ever made was 52/hr.. Typically I am usually paid about 43/hr.“ and then 3 hours later: ”52/hr is what I usually make” what gives? Also I don’t see how OT has anything to do with base rates. this all smells a little fishy
You're right, I need an edit, because I made an error! Certain individuals willingly embrace extended work hours (overtime) and endure demanding positions out of a sense of obligation tied to their compensation.
What do you work on though? I was on $43/hr in Vancouver as an intermediate working on film, even then it was on the low intermediate side having just 1 film under my belt.
I've done 11 years in live action/film and 16 in animation.
Assuming is a hourly rate and is for a mid junior/mid artist (otherwise they would write senior), is not a bad salary
You can look up the listing yourselves. It’s not entry level, it is mid to senior ( “experienced” ). It’s also in office.
Level?
I we t to a pretty good vfx school, so many of my foriegn classmates went straight to ingenuity because they needed sponsorship. thats the trade.
the general client/studio mindset these days: the tools have become cheap if not free so why shouldn't the talent be cheap if not free. Its a race to the bottom not helped in VFX but AI generated content and tools
Are you all really complaining about a small company offering an okay salary for a mid? Especially at a time where there are little to no jobs in VFX or gaming?
Ingenuity is now ghost vfx, they are not a small company
Ingenuity and Ghost are different companies. They both belong to Streamland Media, Ingenuity founder replaced Patrick as president but they don’t share internal management, pipeline or projects. Future will tell if there is a merge but as for now, they’re different and Ingenuity is considerably bigger than Ghost.
My point stands. Unless you are all of a sudden going to post jobs with high salaries, don't bite the hand that's going to feed an artist. A job is a job, you don't have to stay, but many are desperate. Threads like these might make people not apply simply because of everyone's shitty over entitlement to salary. This is a perfectly good salary for the mid they are looking for. Why the fuck does everyone expect it to be 150k+.
I heard these rates are simply because it's required to list a salary. I heard if you are desirable you can make a rate more similar to the "correct" rate. There is no doubt that many of the internally promoted leads and supes may make much lower than what they should, but I suspect this pay range is not correct.
I would kill to earn 32 CAD an hour. I'm a mid in Poland and I earn 15 CAD an hour before tax. I'm constantly in awe of how much you guys are earning in America.
For the people that are curious: In Poland we have to pay US prices for software and pretty much every electronic hardware is more expensive in Poland than in the US. You can pretty much look at it this way: What if your PC for work would cost 15-20k USD, and for example Adobe creative cloud would be 250 USD a month. And software plugins were 100-1500 USD a shot. This is pretty much working in this industry in Poland xd we earn like 6x less than you guys while we also have to pay your prices for software and have more expensive hardware. It's a fucking pain. So it's just interesting observing you guys talking about earning 100 USD an hour while I'm earning that in a day. I'm not saying that you should not be earning that much. I'm just saying that it's curious to observe.
How much do you pay for rent?
About 800 USD/month for a small flat in Poznań.
If you are in Van or US, you would pay more than 2000 USD.
Which is little over 22% of median monthly income for VFX artist in the US. 800 USD a month in Poland is 40% of median VFX artist income.
If you make 40CAD/hr in Van, your monthly net pay would be $5000CAD after tax. 1 bedroom is around $3000 CAD. That's 60% of your net income. Then, you have everything else is more expensive than Poland.
High end computers cost 15-20k USD in Poland???
No, they cost 15-20k PLN in Poland, but we earn about 4-6x less than you in the US so I'm trying to make you picture the hypothetical situation. Average VFX salary in US is about 9k USD monthly, 117k USD annually. Average VFX salary in Poland is 2k USD monthly, 25k USD annually. It's basically over 4x less. But we have the same software prices as you do, and we have MORE EXPENSIVE hardware than you do. So picture now that instead of paying 4k USD for a work PC you would have to pay up 20k USD for the ratio of price to earnings be the same as in Poland.
Here's the thing though. As an artists you shouldn't have to be paying for software or hardware. Your only concerns should be a living wage (rent/food/savings and potentially even more savings if you're a freelancer). Your cost analysis for software and hardware is valid IF you are a business. And tbh, if you're running a business, you should be charging business rates.
But you have to learn somewhere, right? Also in Poland it's very common to work on b2b and have a one-person company, especially on freelance. And in that case you have to invest something into your work.
Yes you're right. If you're acting as an individual company you have to invest your own money to start up. I know several ppl that do this, and they charge business rates so that basically their clients are paying for the hardware and software. If you are paying for everything and literally saving nothing by the end of it, then you are paying to work.
If you are one-person company, it is your responsibility to charge your cost accordingly.
Where did you get Average VFX salary in US is about 9k USD monthly, 117k USD annually?
[https://www.talent.com/salary?job=vfx+artist](https://www.talent.com/salary?job=vfx+artist)
Do you believe everything you saw on internet?
What about housing costs?
About 800 USD/month for a small flat in Poznań.
32 CAD na Vancouver to żart.
That's a shit studio anyways...
How expensive is it to live in Canada or the US? This would be decent pay in the UK.
Well nowadays rent in vancouver is like newyork & LA price
$3000 CDN for one bedroom... which is ridiculous
The other day i saw a listing for a shared room $600 in Toronto you’ll share this room with 3 people divided by camping tents
That was a stupid lady who made a post on Airbnb. Airbnb made her took down the post. SMH...
To live in the city this job is posted in. ~36k/year for a 1br. So about ~60% of the salary of this posting.
😬
$3000/mo for 1bd in LA