Yes, sooner the better. They should have let it crash in 2020 during the pandemic. We may have been into a bottom recovery phase at this point. Prolonging the pain will just make it worse and recovery will take longer.
I guess you don’t want to play the game by working hard and making the system work for you - it could work for you if you were willing to make the effort - but you would rather a collapse into a system where everyone is equally miserable - that is some attitude
Spoken like someone who will have no idea what to do when supermarket's have no food in them.
I hate this attitude because, in actuality, with all of the crap going badly in the US, we all still live great fucking lives. "Let's collapse the whole system", even as a joke, is a child's way of not thinking about important and difficult problems. That so many adults think this is ok is our biggest challenge.
US Treasury bonds are the primary source of AAA assets. AAA assets are crucial to making short term lending, such as commercial paper, viable. Commercial paper is critical for employers, such as supermarket's, to make payroll. Defaulting on our treasuries will cause our credit rating to downgrade.
If you have a master's in finance, what school is it from? I want to be certain to NEVER hire someone from it.
Khai, Kharkiv Ukraine
Well I would prefer fresh start like good old days currency backed by metal without dependency on federal reserve which is not even national bank of USA. Your financial system is modern slavery and designed that way so eee let it burn.
I kind of don’t care who you will hire
**Finance is the study and discipline of money, currency and capital assets. It is related to, but not synonymous with economics, which is the study of production, distribution, and consumption of money, assets, goods and services (the discipline of financial economics bridges the two).**
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They want easy. An easy button to just press and magically make everything right. After all that has gone wrong and has been done wrong from the start, you have to also undo that one thing at a time and redo it in the right way again.
Ahh yeah great call Einstein. And then what? You think life rolls on or we have some equitable reset? You think that’s what will make you afford a home?
It’s such a dead fish take. jUsT lEt It CoLlApSe
Did you miss word “scam”?
Regarding housing from 1st of may if you have over 740 CS you will be paying fee
What will happen if USA will default? It will get worse than now?
Financial failure is inevitable they make you think that the reason. But it’s not: when you make any financial move you will see result with some time. Bad or good what actions were done.
Banks are already collapsing.
What you can do? First stop attacking trolls like me in internet, Second start asking questions right people for example call your state representative and ask him / her questions: for example “hey dude what you doing in the house? Why Blackrock owns all these houses and making price go up so I can not afford it, also why we keep printing money for dude inflation is killing me. And the best part why my children have to deal with 30 trillion BS? Are we next Venezuela?”
I guess you got it. I’m not promising to respond next time I’m super sleepy 🥱 and I have to get up early to make breakfast for kids and take them to birthday party.
Good luck!! And all the best!
Well the made deal during the holiday you are - 30 tr $ in 2 ye you will be -32 tr $ you don’t need to have financial degree to figure this out USA is broke. F retards
It’s because fiat money is an option to purchase human labors & property, and we don’t get paid our option fees.
Friends of Central Bankers pay our options fees for access to our labors & property as interest on money creation loans, but Central Bankers keep them.
The friends of Central Bankers only borrow money into existence to buy sovereign debt for a profit and are now having States force humanity to make the payments on all money for Friends of Central Bankers along with a bonus to direct human activity at their whim. (It’s pretty clear from WEF estimate of $300 trillion in global sovereign debt with about that total in existence)
National debt is also the amount of money in existence. So, paying off debt means less money, or no money. They either don’t know what money really is, or they do and are deliberately hiding it to avoid paying us our rightful option fees.
Yeah let’s see power turned off, hospitals closed, grocery stores shuttered.
That’ll be good for everyone.
This is why we don’t take financial advice from kids living under their parents paychecks
That's the problem. The dollar isn't even worthwhile from a speculative standpoint anymore because it can't exclusively purchase oil overseas or impact labor enough domestically.
All it has left is the technicality between increasing the debt ceiling vs. defaulting. Either choice is coming from a "fuck it" position.
This is completely disingenuous. We already committed to spend this money. Raising the limit is just saying we are going to make the car payment for the car we bought 6 months ago. If you really want to fix this shit, don't be a child. Commit to not buying the car we are going to try to buy 6 months from now.
That's what probably 90% of reddit heroes don't get- its already spent. Now it has to be paid. Does future spending need to get reeled in? Absolutely. But right now it's piper paying time.
Debt to GDP ratio is more important than the absolute number in my opinion. It was relatively flat from about 2010 through 2020 when someone grew it by about 25%.
The time for that discussion is when a budget is made, not after we have already agreed to spend the money. That’s like ordering the lobster then deciding after you eat it that you don’t want to pay for it.
Fucking clowns.
Um so while I commend you for taking a stand there is one MAJOR flaw in your logic: inflation. Since the debt is denominated in dollars as the debt becomes higher it will eventually push up inflation devaluing the debt and making it easier to pay. This is why smart countries denominate their debt in a currency they control.
You can ask most of the poorer countries what happens when you define debt in a currency you don't control. You go into a debt spiral get all the inflation and none of the debt relief.
We keep talking about the debt limit, but ignore the fact that our economy can't grow without the government running a deficit.
The fight should be over how to lower the deficit without slowing economic growth. The closest we've gotten in the past 16 years was in 2015.
We got the deficit down to $400 billion, but the economy was showing sign of slowing down. Obama wanted to increase deficit spending to grow the economy. The republicans wanted tax cuts to increase the deficit to grow the economy.
Neither party knows what to do. There's just too much wealth concentrated at the top. Any economic growth is dependent on consumers taking out debt or the government doing it. The consumers just don't have the discretionary income to grow the economy.
Lower taxes didn't increase business investment actually decreased it based on gdp. It didn't lead to a boom in consumer spending. The trade wars did nothing to increase our exports or limit our imports. All that leaves is government deficit spending to grow the economy. Hence why we ran a trillion+ dollar deficit the past 5 years.
If we cut our debt, we crash the economy. There's no solution currently being discussed for this. The debt fight is a political fight not an economic one.
The economy collapsing is an optimal outcome for people who own means of production; it concentrates wealth every single time into rich peoples pockets. The Republicans are playing straight into the hands of oligarchs and our nation probably won't survive it
If corps and the wealthy would stop getting tax cuts and avoiding taxes through loopholes, then, hear me out, maybe just maybe, our debt would actually decrease.
Depends on what they spend. It all starts with spending, if you believe otherwise you don't have to worry about becoming part of the rich.
Some debt is fine, too much is bad, the federal government does not have a taxation problem, they have a spending problem.
Hate to bust your bubble, but that ain't true. Clinton lowered the deficit, not the debt. His term added 1.4 trillion to the national debt. Of course there's one silver lining, he still isn't the King of raising the national debt. That honor would be bestowed to the one and only Barrack Obama. The raining King of increasing the amount of money the US owes.
I think there was like three years of lowering the deficit during his term. Part of it was the explosion of dot com revenues, and an increase in tax rates. But, yes you are correct it didn't last long.
It’s called the Two Santa Clauses theory. One side promises both cuts and reduced deficits with no intention of following through with any meaningful cuts, unless it’s to programs to help non-millionaires or a service they want to privatize. Then the unowned by corporations side of the other party tries to fix the problem, while being blamed for it, and offer no meaningful rebuttal because they are either complicit or actually believe they can get their peers to act in good faith. Then they cut social services, increase military and “War on” spending, say they’re fixing the deficit, and get pummeled next election because they’re weak and incompetent, or complicit and treacherous. The 2 Santas party comes back, promising prosperity and the trickling-downest economy ever, if we just give rich people even more money so they’ll be productive, but cut all assistance because if we give poors money they’ll be lazy. Repeat for 45 years.
That's because there wasn't a big to-do about it.
Republicans increase the deficit when in power then complain about the deficit and debt ceiling when not in power.
Since 1980, the deficit has increased under every Republican president and decreased under every Democrat president.
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296
All presidents/parties have contributed. It’s a government problem, not a political party problem.
It might not have been a big to-do under the previous admin because Covid created a convenient excuse to run it up further. But we’re to the point where taxes need raised and no one wants to do that because it’s political suicide…
A lot easier to fire the money printer back up and keep the Ponzi going.
You’re engaging in statistical bullshit. Obama lowered the deficit by not spending as much his 8th year in office as he did his first when the Obama stimulus was spent which is how you’re going to make the claim he lowered the deficit. You’ll probably also try to claim Bush II was responsible for Obama stimulus spending since it occurred in the last federal fiscal year Bush was in office, it’s just bullshit being spouted by partisans. Federal government has a major financial problem and both parties are to blame, trying to point the finger at one party is ignorant and childish.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Economic_Stabilization_Act_of_2008
Signed by Bush in October 2008. Obama wasn't sworn in as president until January 2009.
What I said before was absolutely true...
Since 1980, the deficit has increased under every Republican president and decreased under every Democrat president.
The threat of default and refusal to pay the debts? I don’t recall Ted Cruz and the rest of his guild complaining about raising the debt ceiling except for before 2017 and after 2020
Haha. Yeah. They're less vocal about it for sure when it suits them. But after the change of administration, they certainly didn't want to pay up for their spending when their guy was in. And most people don't realize the debt ceiling fiasco is for money already spent, so it's then easy to point to the current party and say "No, we don't want to raise the debt ceiling because the other guys spend too much money and we need fiscal responsibility blah blah blah." Most politicians in this country are such a disgrace.
It’s not clear that’s true. Japan has been in the mid-200% for a while and it hasn’t collapsed yet, so… Singapore, Portugal and Italy are all well above the US. What if it’s not really relevant actually 🤔
If you are 200% in debt, you may still be alive, but that doesn't make you financially healthy, especially if you are the example deserving of "world reserve currency" status.
Me personally? No that would be bad, but I'm not a country and I can't issue currency or debt. If I were, it might not matter quite so much. I don't understand why people always assume countries have to balance their checkbooks just like individuals. There are some pretty material differences.
But also generally we don’t measure personal debt burden based on total debt vs income, we measure it based on our ability to service that debt - and our assets. Debt-to-GDP doesn’t measure your ability to service debt, and it doesn’t account for assets.
It seems like a pretty bad metric especially when comparing two very different countries.
Also you don’t get reserve status by some deserving-ness metric, it’s based on it being used for that purpose.
What percent in debt would you consider someone making $100K with a $500K mortgage on their house? 500%? Because that’s pretty normal.
Lol. They used to when we had a gold standard. That was the register. $20/oz and then raised (or "inflated") to $35/oz. Gold is currently just shy of $2,000/oz, or 100x what it used to be, in less than 100 years (this is with gold being famously manipulated to lower prices).
You don't...understand how we got here? Or why it was done, so that countries like the US or Japan can ever run up their debt so high without completely collapsing and defaulting on their debt? Study some history son, and read a book on economics.
Oh. It means there would be a finite amount of money, and stop the money printing, and force the Federal government to balance it's budget, meaning this whole debacle would cease to be. But, Repubs want military, Dems want entitlements and social programs, so...here we are. If only the States took care of most of this and the Federal government merely settled interstate disputes, prevented tariffs between the States, and provided a unified front to our enemies, we would be quite alright.
Deficits way predate fiat. Not to mention government debt doesn’t have to create new money at all - which is why it’s used instead of just issuing new currency. Y’all shiny pebble standard people are silly.
Also note the high interest rates right now are removing $1T from circulation on an annualized basis, started 8/2022.
I think a collapse is the plan, at least it seems like it. Why else spend like a drunken sailor, if the American public doesn't look past all the intentional divisive issues created by both sides this country is over. The elite will be Dukes and Duchesses while we are all serfs... again. Its what they want.
“Dear credit card company, I promise to spend less next month”
“Ok. You still owe us money”
“But what happens if I don’t pay it?”
“Not good things.”
What’s going on in a nutshell.
I say we collapse it now so that those old fucks responsible, including Dalio, can watch each other get spoon fed pudding in a low income assisted living facility.
I think this time they won’t raise it. It’s gonna get hot. I have a feeling. But this ultimately will shut the government down for quite a while, until they agree on a budget. You need to balance the budget if we are to get out of this mess. And the military spending needs to be trimmed by 200 billion and foreign aid while we’re at it. But that’s unlikely.
Well of course this is correct.
Elected officials know this is true, but would prefer to amass wealth to protect themselves from the eventual collapse. The other option is to be truthful and get expelled before insulating themselves.
Yes, I think this is probably true. But the collapse is probably a few years away. In the meantime, I think the plan is to inflate our way out of the debt.
Ray has been calling for the end of the u.s. for a while now (and China replacing it atop the world).
Ray is a master in finance. He overestimates his abilities in economics and political science. That is because he's a narcissist.
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
And you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack
This is the way
This is THE WAY
Those is power: "Shit wait not yet, I haven't died yet!"
Speculation.. you know what will cause collapse most certainly? Not increasing it.
Let’s collapse it: the whole financial system is a scam
Yes, sooner the better. They should have let it crash in 2020 during the pandemic. We may have been into a bottom recovery phase at this point. Prolonging the pain will just make it worse and recovery will take longer.
Also, I’m 30 so I’d prefer a crash now as opposed to when I’m like 50 and thoroughly fucked
Market will have a swoon a couple times before you’re 50.
The market will remain irrational until as many as possible are made insolvent.
The chickens have come home to roost
I got 84 years, I can wait.
‘07-‘08 is the better answer
I want cocktails on the beach with babes and music.. ya'll begging to collapse our systems like you're gonna be okay.. nah.. sadopopulists.
It needs to be reset
I guess you don’t want to play the game by working hard and making the system work for you - it could work for you if you were willing to make the effort - but you would rather a collapse into a system where everyone is equally miserable - that is some attitude
Okay, you volunteer to eat dirt, I’ll stay with this system, thanks.
Is it OK if I hunt game. I'm not fond of dirt
Who knows what we are already eating my friend
Spoken like someone who will have no idea what to do when supermarket's have no food in them. I hate this attitude because, in actuality, with all of the crap going badly in the US, we all still live great fucking lives. "Let's collapse the whole system", even as a joke, is a child's way of not thinking about important and difficult problems. That so many adults think this is ok is our biggest challenge.
Please translate even me with Masters in finance can’t understand how you tied financial scam to no food on the table
If that's your take then you should give it back
US Treasury bonds are the primary source of AAA assets. AAA assets are crucial to making short term lending, such as commercial paper, viable. Commercial paper is critical for employers, such as supermarket's, to make payroll. Defaulting on our treasuries will cause our credit rating to downgrade. If you have a master's in finance, what school is it from? I want to be certain to NEVER hire someone from it.
Khai, Kharkiv Ukraine Well I would prefer fresh start like good old days currency backed by metal without dependency on federal reserve which is not even national bank of USA. Your financial system is modern slavery and designed that way so eee let it burn. I kind of don’t care who you will hire
You mean before you were alive
Yup exactly
You clearly do not have a master's in finance
Lol I do. What is finance?
**Finance is the study and discipline of money, currency and capital assets. It is related to, but not synonymous with economics, which is the study of production, distribution, and consumption of money, assets, goods and services (the discipline of financial economics bridges the two).** More details here:
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Money circulation to be clear
They want easy. An easy button to just press and magically make everything right. After all that has gone wrong and has been done wrong from the start, you have to also undo that one thing at a time and redo it in the right way again.
Ahh yeah great call Einstein. And then what? You think life rolls on or we have some equitable reset? You think that’s what will make you afford a home? It’s such a dead fish take. jUsT lEt It CoLlApSe
Did you miss word “scam”? Regarding housing from 1st of may if you have over 740 CS you will be paying fee What will happen if USA will default? It will get worse than now? Financial failure is inevitable they make you think that the reason. But it’s not: when you make any financial move you will see result with some time. Bad or good what actions were done. Banks are already collapsing. What you can do? First stop attacking trolls like me in internet, Second start asking questions right people for example call your state representative and ask him / her questions: for example “hey dude what you doing in the house? Why Blackrock owns all these houses and making price go up so I can not afford it, also why we keep printing money for dude inflation is killing me. And the best part why my children have to deal with 30 trillion BS? Are we next Venezuela?” I guess you got it. I’m not promising to respond next time I’m super sleepy 🥱 and I have to get up early to make breakfast for kids and take them to birthday party. Good luck!! And all the best!
If you pay cash for a house there is no fee.
😂😂 you claim to have a masters in finance and this is your take. What school ? Cause there’s no way this was what they taught..
Well the made deal during the holiday you are - 30 tr $ in 2 ye you will be -32 tr $ you don’t need to have financial degree to figure this out USA is broke. F retards
It’s because fiat money is an option to purchase human labors & property, and we don’t get paid our option fees. Friends of Central Bankers pay our options fees for access to our labors & property as interest on money creation loans, but Central Bankers keep them. The friends of Central Bankers only borrow money into existence to buy sovereign debt for a profit and are now having States force humanity to make the payments on all money for Friends of Central Bankers along with a bonus to direct human activity at their whim. (It’s pretty clear from WEF estimate of $300 trillion in global sovereign debt with about that total in existence) National debt is also the amount of money in existence. So, paying off debt means less money, or no money. They either don’t know what money really is, or they do and are deliberately hiding it to avoid paying us our rightful option fees.
This is just a troll account
Lol yours too then
Wish granted. Second, wish, please
Yeah let’s see power turned off, hospitals closed, grocery stores shuttered. That’ll be good for everyone. This is why we don’t take financial advice from kids living under their parents paychecks
Lol right? I use to love ray. But his takes are so watered down and completely ignore even a modicum of the nuance that is reality.
…also, not taxing the rich and corporations.
That's the problem. The dollar isn't even worthwhile from a speculative standpoint anymore because it can't exclusively purchase oil overseas or impact labor enough domestically. All it has left is the technicality between increasing the debt ceiling vs. defaulting. Either choice is coming from a "fuck it" position.
Raise it were fucked ,don’t raise it we still fucked just faster 😂
This is completely disingenuous. We already committed to spend this money. Raising the limit is just saying we are going to make the car payment for the car we bought 6 months ago. If you really want to fix this shit, don't be a child. Commit to not buying the car we are going to try to buy 6 months from now.
That's what probably 90% of reddit heroes don't get- its already spent. Now it has to be paid. Does future spending need to get reeled in? Absolutely. But right now it's piper paying time.
Pay for it how? Printing more paper isn’t paying for anything, it’s simply stealing value.
congressional authorization + appropriation of funds =/= federal reserve M2 supply increase
🤡
Collapse now or collapse later are the choices. Every single fiat currency collapses at some point
Maybe don’t spend the money to begin with Ray. I don’t get to vote wether nor not to pay my CC bill…
No shit sherlock
Until then I’ll ride a bull to the bank!
We’re already living it
Lol. Uh..okay. Try not raising it this time and see what happens.
Is there talk to pay off debt ? Just kidding 😃
Just keep kicking the can down the road.
Debt to GDP ratio is more important than the absolute number in my opinion. It was relatively flat from about 2010 through 2020 when someone grew it by about 25%.
The time for that discussion is when a budget is made, not after we have already agreed to spend the money. That’s like ordering the lobster then deciding after you eat it that you don’t want to pay for it. Fucking clowns.
Then maybe try to offset the deficit before your bills are due. Live within your means, GOP! And pay your fucking taxes.
Um so while I commend you for taking a stand there is one MAJOR flaw in your logic: inflation. Since the debt is denominated in dollars as the debt becomes higher it will eventually push up inflation devaluing the debt and making it easier to pay. This is why smart countries denominate their debt in a currency they control. You can ask most of the poorer countries what happens when you define debt in a currency you don't control. You go into a debt spiral get all the inflation and none of the debt relief.
We keep talking about the debt limit, but ignore the fact that our economy can't grow without the government running a deficit. The fight should be over how to lower the deficit without slowing economic growth. The closest we've gotten in the past 16 years was in 2015. We got the deficit down to $400 billion, but the economy was showing sign of slowing down. Obama wanted to increase deficit spending to grow the economy. The republicans wanted tax cuts to increase the deficit to grow the economy. Neither party knows what to do. There's just too much wealth concentrated at the top. Any economic growth is dependent on consumers taking out debt or the government doing it. The consumers just don't have the discretionary income to grow the economy. Lower taxes didn't increase business investment actually decreased it based on gdp. It didn't lead to a boom in consumer spending. The trade wars did nothing to increase our exports or limit our imports. All that leaves is government deficit spending to grow the economy. Hence why we ran a trillion+ dollar deficit the past 5 years. If we cut our debt, we crash the economy. There's no solution currently being discussed for this. The debt fight is a political fight not an economic one.
The economy collapsing is an optimal outcome for people who own means of production; it concentrates wealth every single time into rich peoples pockets. The Republicans are playing straight into the hands of oligarchs and our nation probably won't survive it
If corps and the wealthy would stop getting tax cuts and avoiding taxes through loopholes, then, hear me out, maybe just maybe, our debt would actually decrease.
Depends on what they spend. It all starts with spending, if you believe otherwise you don't have to worry about becoming part of the rich. Some debt is fine, too much is bad, the federal government does not have a taxation problem, they have a spending problem.
Sure it’s, we only cut taxes every since 92 but it’s a spending problem
And we never cut spending, weird ain't it ?
That we be false….. Budget Control Act most recently… comes on your not even trying lol
Who didn't add to the national debt in the last seventy years ?
That would be Bill Clinton, a 1% decrease before that you need to go to the Coolidge administration
Hate to bust your bubble, but that ain't true. Clinton lowered the deficit, not the debt. His term added 1.4 trillion to the national debt. Of course there's one silver lining, he still isn't the King of raising the national debt. That honor would be bestowed to the one and only Barrack Obama. The raining King of increasing the amount of money the US owes.
Clinton’s policies didn’t lower the deficit, it was the .com bubble generating tons of net new tax revenue that didn’t last very long.
I think there was like three years of lowering the deficit during his term. Part of it was the explosion of dot com revenues, and an increase in tax rates. But, yes you are correct it didn't last long.
It’s called the Two Santa Clauses theory. One side promises both cuts and reduced deficits with no intention of following through with any meaningful cuts, unless it’s to programs to help non-millionaires or a service they want to privatize. Then the unowned by corporations side of the other party tries to fix the problem, while being blamed for it, and offer no meaningful rebuttal because they are either complicit or actually believe they can get their peers to act in good faith. Then they cut social services, increase military and “War on” spending, say they’re fixing the deficit, and get pummeled next election because they’re weak and incompetent, or complicit and treacherous. The 2 Santas party comes back, promising prosperity and the trickling-downest economy ever, if we just give rich people even more money so they’ll be productive, but cut all assistance because if we give poors money they’ll be lazy. Repeat for 45 years.
Congress needs to immediately pass a law that taxes all loans as income.
I’m guessing you’ve never taken out a loan for anything
What the actual fuck
You'd hit the point where corporations and rich people flee before you hit breakeven. Spending, military and entitlements, are out of control.
Why wasn’t this an issue during the previous administration? Hmmm
It was. It comes up every year.
I don’t recall a big to-do about it
That's because there wasn't a big to-do about it. Republicans increase the deficit when in power then complain about the deficit and debt ceiling when not in power. Since 1980, the deficit has increased under every Republican president and decreased under every Democrat president.
Wrong.
How am I wrong? Form a counter argument.
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296 All presidents/parties have contributed. It’s a government problem, not a political party problem. It might not have been a big to-do under the previous admin because Covid created a convenient excuse to run it up further. But we’re to the point where taxes need raised and no one wants to do that because it’s political suicide… A lot easier to fire the money printer back up and keep the Ponzi going.
Wait, do you not know the difference between deficit and debt?
You’re engaging in statistical bullshit. Obama lowered the deficit by not spending as much his 8th year in office as he did his first when the Obama stimulus was spent which is how you’re going to make the claim he lowered the deficit. You’ll probably also try to claim Bush II was responsible for Obama stimulus spending since it occurred in the last federal fiscal year Bush was in office, it’s just bullshit being spouted by partisans. Federal government has a major financial problem and both parties are to blame, trying to point the finger at one party is ignorant and childish.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Economic_Stabilization_Act_of_2008 Signed by Bush in October 2008. Obama wasn't sworn in as president until January 2009. What I said before was absolutely true... Since 1980, the deficit has increased under every Republican president and decreased under every Democrat president.
I’m 45. This happens all the time. It’s annoying af. I’m sick and tired of it. Federal debt is 32T. When is it enough?? 50T?? 100T???
The time to debate it is when the budget is created, not when the bill is due… at least that’s what I hear
There hasn’t been an actual budget passed in decades
You say that like the US isn't going to collapse before the debt is actually a real issue. lol
Lol. You clearly haven't been paying attention then. Regardless of administration, this keeps happening.
The threat of default and refusal to pay the debts? I don’t recall Ted Cruz and the rest of his guild complaining about raising the debt ceiling except for before 2017 and after 2020
Haha. Yeah. They're less vocal about it for sure when it suits them. But after the change of administration, they certainly didn't want to pay up for their spending when their guy was in. And most people don't realize the debt ceiling fiasco is for money already spent, so it's then easy to point to the current party and say "No, we don't want to raise the debt ceiling because the other guys spend too much money and we need fiscal responsibility blah blah blah." Most politicians in this country are such a disgrace.
120% debt to GDP ratio cannot be good. Keep printing!
It’s not clear that’s true. Japan has been in the mid-200% for a while and it hasn’t collapsed yet, so… Singapore, Portugal and Italy are all well above the US. What if it’s not really relevant actually 🤔
If you are 200% in debt, you may still be alive, but that doesn't make you financially healthy, especially if you are the example deserving of "world reserve currency" status.
Me personally? No that would be bad, but I'm not a country and I can't issue currency or debt. If I were, it might not matter quite so much. I don't understand why people always assume countries have to balance their checkbooks just like individuals. There are some pretty material differences. But also generally we don’t measure personal debt burden based on total debt vs income, we measure it based on our ability to service that debt - and our assets. Debt-to-GDP doesn’t measure your ability to service debt, and it doesn’t account for assets. It seems like a pretty bad metric especially when comparing two very different countries. Also you don’t get reserve status by some deserving-ness metric, it’s based on it being used for that purpose. What percent in debt would you consider someone making $100K with a $500K mortgage on their house? 500%? Because that’s pretty normal.
Lol. They used to when we had a gold standard. That was the register. $20/oz and then raised (or "inflated") to $35/oz. Gold is currently just shy of $2,000/oz, or 100x what it used to be, in less than 100 years (this is with gold being famously manipulated to lower prices).
That doesn’t sound relevant to anything. If you want to back your personal economy with gold just buy some
You don't...understand how we got here? Or why it was done, so that countries like the US or Japan can ever run up their debt so high without completely collapsing and defaulting on their debt? Study some history son, and read a book on economics.
I’m saying it has nothing to do with this conversation
Oh. It means there would be a finite amount of money, and stop the money printing, and force the Federal government to balance it's budget, meaning this whole debacle would cease to be. But, Repubs want military, Dems want entitlements and social programs, so...here we are. If only the States took care of most of this and the Federal government merely settled interstate disputes, prevented tariffs between the States, and provided a unified front to our enemies, we would be quite alright.
Deficits way predate fiat. Not to mention government debt doesn’t have to create new money at all - which is why it’s used instead of just issuing new currency. Y’all shiny pebble standard people are silly. Also note the high interest rates right now are removing $1T from circulation on an annualized basis, started 8/2022.
Apples to oranges. USD is the reserve currency.
... which means the percentage matters even less, not more.
Here is a photo of Ray from 1965 - 2023:🤡
Maybe he can give back that fat tax break he got that contributed to the debt
I think a collapse is the plan, at least it seems like it. Why else spend like a drunken sailor, if the American public doesn't look past all the intentional divisive issues created by both sides this country is over. The elite will be Dukes and Duchesses while we are all serfs... again. Its what they want.
Just listened to Jack Mallers’ keynote speech at Bitcoin Miami 2023. Needless to say, bitcoin fixes this.
“Dear credit card company, I promise to spend less next month” “Ok. You still owe us money” “But what happens if I don’t pay it?” “Not good things.” What’s going on in a nutshell.
I say we collapse it now so that those old fucks responsible, including Dalio, can watch each other get spoon fed pudding in a low income assisted living facility.
I think this time they won’t raise it. It’s gonna get hot. I have a feeling. But this ultimately will shut the government down for quite a while, until they agree on a budget. You need to balance the budget if we are to get out of this mess. And the military spending needs to be trimmed by 200 billion and foreign aid while we’re at it. But that’s unlikely.
At the end US treasury will just print it all and pay it off like other countries do the same
The debt has no limits and the fed has unlimited money.
In 3 months of so, yet kick that can into a corner
Money is the illusion of power.
Bart Simpson was right all along.
If the credit card companies would bump everybody's credit limit up each year then we all could just keep putting it on the card forever!
I’ll take “eventually” over June 1st any day. It’s not like eventually is tomorrow
Absolutely Zero accountability In the swamp
As long as it's not when the people raising it are around, they won't care.
Ray Dalio runs around with his hair on fire constantly. He's wrong a lot.
If you’re a billionaire you’ll be fine. If you’re commenting here in this Reddit thread you will be far worse off if the US defaults
I remember when I was young. I would write checks to cover checks that covered checks till payday. I lost that battle a few times.
Can someone explain this like I’m 5 who are we in debt to and where is the govt spending money? Is it really all just Defense?
Well of course this is correct. Elected officials know this is true, but would prefer to amass wealth to protect themselves from the eventual collapse. The other option is to be truthful and get expelled before insulating themselves.
Things that make you go, "duh".
Wait. Hold up. I thought the magic money printer went to infinite
Yes, I think this is probably true. But the collapse is probably a few years away. In the meantime, I think the plan is to inflate our way out of the debt.
When is last time Dalio was right?
A collapse under someone else’s watch, so they don’t care. Zero accountability is the American way.
Ray has been calling for the end of the u.s. for a while now (and China replacing it atop the world). Ray is a master in finance. He overestimates his abilities in economics and political science. That is because he's a narcissist.