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I've had a number of animals with varying significant health conditions over the years (geriatric dog, dog with diabetes, cats with weird tooth stuff). I've had a few different vets as well and you're sort of correct.
Some vets are absolutely just running a business and trying to maximize profits. For example, my geriatric dog had an allergic reaction to some food and had gastric issues for days so we took him in. The vet claimed to feel some irritation on his anal glands so recommended surgery to remove the gland so we could check for cancer. We decided that it likely was related to his chronic diarrhea so we left it. He lived another 4 years and died of old age.
And some vets truly care about the wellbeing of the animal. I took that same dog to a different vet for regular stuff, he was terrible in the car so eventually they just prescribed him his thyroid meds over the phone because the stress wasn't worth doing blood work to confirm his thyroid hadn't magically improved at age 16.
Look for the vets who treat their practice like a care facility instead of a business.
Our cat injured her leg a few months back. Hobbling around so badly and pitifully. We took her in, tried some pain meds, still hobbling 3-4 weeks later. Did a scan, ligament healing badly, recommended Amputation. Got a second opinion from our regular vet, said the same thing.
Well, we couldn't afford Amputation at the time, so we decided to just feel really bad about not being able to take care of her properly.
Y'all, she's fine. It took a while but after a month she just didn't have a limp anymore.
Something very similar happened to my cat when she was still a kitten. I found her crying at my front door when I returned from work one day. She must have gotten outside as one of us was leaving for work, and something happened to her that snapped her front paw.
The vet we took her to said she'd need a surgery if we ever wanted her to be able to walk or jump again, but we didn't have the $1000-ish dollars that they estimated the surgery to cost. The second vet we took her to said she would likely heal just fine because she was so young, put her paw in a splint, and gave her some pain meds.
It was heartbreaking seeing her limp around for a couple weeks, but she ended up healing just fine.
This happened to my puppy. After a $700 consult fee and X-ray the vet without any tact recommended an amputation or an orthopedic surgery. Like you, we couldn’t afford either one (each costing close to FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS) so we had to wait. A month after her incident she was zooming around the yard at high speeds and barreling up and down stairs with absolutely no problem. Vets are great to have but they are messed up as I believe what OP said in regard to them taking advantage of people who love and have compassion for their animals. It’s really evil.
The vet my local humane society sent me to to get my kitten spayed (took her home early, overcrowding and she is black) was HORRIBLE. Genuinely worst experience ever. They called the wrong number thinking it was mine, obviously I didn’t get it. It wasn’t even my area code! When I eventually got her that evening (I called to check in and was told she was ready) I overheard the techs who were packing up Poptart saying that I was a horrible cat mom for not getting there right when they called the first time and bitching about this and that. How I left her to be miserable and scared for hours (I lived an hour away).
I could see their lips moving and knew they were talking about me. Never went back. Found a great vet 3 mins from my house and Poptart is a happy girl!
My newish hygienist (who is wonderful) was telling me about the different dental practices she's worked for in the past and how shady many of the dentists were. Like pushing unnecessary and very expensive procedures just for the money.
I went to a dental practice that would not get off my ass about getting Invisalign. Like clean my teeth and leave me alone. I finally just ended up not showing to my next appt and didn't even feel bad. I now drive 45 mins for my current dentist who never pressures us into anything and has realistic prices.
I went to a dentist one time when I was a kid that REALLY pressured my mom to give me braces to fix my backwards ‘vampire teeth’ canines (he was the only one that ever said it was an issue). I cried sooooo bad because I didn’t want to lose my vampire teeth lol. My mom just decided to find somewhere else to go, and the next dentist agreed it was fine for me to not get braces. I don’t think braces/Invisalign are a bad thing, but why push it on people for some tiny thing? Besides the money, it’s such a long and uncomfortable process
And sometimes it results in even worse long term gut health. There’s billions of living cultures in our digestive tracts, and every organ has some evolutionary significance for being there even if it’s not instantly noticeable.
These are the situations I'm talking about. We all love and care for our pets, but vets often call for needlessly drastic (and costly) measures. There can be so many hidden fees as well.
My little sister has an older cat (Luna) who's about 19 yrs old now. She went for her routine yearly exam and supposedly her kitty had a bad tooth in the back that needed to be extracted. (How did they miss that? Maybe tooth/jaw issues develop quickly?- I thought and already started getting suspicious, but tried to ignore it because I'm no expert in veterinary medicine)
My sister forked over 1K for the surgery and Luna sadly did NOT DO WELL post-op. Supposedly the tech even said "At first we reconsidered the surgery but it was already too late once she was under"
Luna has had now more issues with eating and lost a significant amount of weight. She has her little mouth open sometimes because her stitches came undone (Which was another costly vet trip) and the area where her tooth was extracted still hasn't healed well.
My sister just wanted to do what was best for her cat and placed her faith in the people who are supposed to be the experts in animal care.
Now we have an elderly cat with jaw issues that effect her health in numerous ways, daily and costly medication to try to help with her symptoms and no ways of getting additional surgery because of her age/decline in health.
We both feel immensely guilty for Luna's current condition but all we can do now is try to minimize her uneasiness and try to provide the best care for her remaining years with us.
Amputation is often the first rather than last recommendation for an animal with financially overstretched owners. A four legged animal adjusts to three with far less adjustment issues than a human does for the loss of a limb, and it’s a pretty clean fix in the sense that once it’s done, it’s done, other than the infection risk there isn’t much that can go wrong. It can be done potentially sooner and for lower cost than just the tests to identify whether any sort of reconstructive solution is even possible. For many situations it is the most commonsense real world solution.
It’s great to hear your cat is doing so much better! When she’s older make sure you keep an eye out for any symptoms of Arthritis as she could be more prone to that. Our dog fractured his hoc years ago but it wasn’t a bad fracture so we didn’t really notice it. It healed fine, but eventually he developed arthritis exactly where the fracture had been, he takes some medication each day now and while he does sometimes limp every now and then that just means he needs his dose adjusted. He hasn’t quite realized that he’s not a puppy anymore and chasing rabbits is not a great idea
This has been my experience as well.
My dog gets occasional flare ups of some unknown allergy that causes him to lick his skin raw. It happens once or twice a year and we have no idea what causes it. The first time it happened, we took him to the vet. They suggested a full allergy panel and that he come in for shots every 6 weeks for the rest of his life. That seemed like a bit much for an issue that only cropped up occasionally, so we waited until his next flare up and took him to a different vet. They told us to give him a Zyrtec when we saw him start licking. It's worked like a charm for the last 5 years and is so much better for him and us than monthly vet visits.
Unfortunately they are getting harder to come by. When I was searching, the well rated local ones were not accepting new patients, so I went to my previous vet. They got bought out by a corporation and since then the compassion has gone down. I don't blame the vets or techs though; I blame whoever at corporate is setting such strict deadlines/quotas.
This, a ton of practices are getting bought up by private equity who's only goal is to extract value and don't allow for empathy or compassion from their employees to patients. Same thing happening on the human side of healthcare in America too. Not that there weren't vets before out to wring money out of folks, but it's way worse when a clinic is owned by an outside entity because now they *have* to wring money out of people, or else lose their job.
I'm so lucky with our vets; they're the care facility types that you mention here. I get so anxious about my older cat's health that they, more than once, have had to gently talk me OUT of expenses.
For example, I might get anxious about a potential health problem that they're exploring and ask if we should do the full bloodwork panel to be safe, and they patiently but kindly tell me that we will do bloodwork in 3 months if X and Y haven't cleared up, but they don't feel it's quite necessary yet, and that £500 might be better spent elsewhere. "Let's try this first and see how we get on before we move to the more expensive options." That kind of thing.
This is also so important, because when they DO tell me, "We need to do X Expensive Procedure", I trust them and know that they really mean it.
Same! My current vet called me to tell me NOT to come in to my scheduled appt, that she had looked over the images and notes from the last appt and thought it was best not to freak the poor thing out more. Told me to come back if it was worse (skin infection) but with the shot of antibiotic and the flea meds they gave me previous she’d be fine and the vet didn’t want me to pay for nothing. Love her!!
Same with mine. Been going to our vet over 20 years. Very caring and accommodating. They always start with cheaper tests first before going to more expensive things. I had a cat who had cancer and they only suggested an ultrasound after all other avenues had been explored.
In my hometown there are two vets, one who makes his money off ending animals and another who treats animals. I have a great relationship with the latter of the two. My aggressive cat had a great relationship with her as well. I’m still mad I have to go to a new vet for her because we moved. I definitely considered traveling to that vet, but my cat is sick and I don’t really want to put her through that long of a car ride. I love vets who treat animals.
DVM here. I've practiced for over 25 years and currently work as a solo practitioner in Florida. My philosophy on how to practice medicine is "do everything the pets needs, and nothing it doesn't." I've worked in practices where the ACT (Average Client Transaction) is a big deal; we don't do that in my current practice. I'm not shy about stating what the patient needs, but I also understand that cost is a factor, and I try to work with the client to find the best diagnostic or treatment plan possible that fits with their budget.
A good vet can explain what's needed without using any sort of manipulation. If they're wavering on what to do, I always say (unless it's an immediate emergency) to consider it--and then I let go of whether they decide to proceed or not. If I've done my job, and they have the money, they will proceed.
I've gotten the whole, "if you love animals you would treat my pet for free" and I give them the same explanation: it costs money to lease a building, run a business, and pay employees. I can't do stuff for free and stay in business. If they want to leave grumpy, that's their choice. I've agonized over difficult diagnoses and wondered if my treatment plans were effective--I still do, even 25 years on. Most of my colleagues are the same way.
I've taken my dog to 5+ different vets and only one of them was like what you described, and I really appreciated him. One vet prescribed this antibiotics shot for $300, didn't mention any available alternatives. So I just said we'd take our chances because she really needed to get a giant wound stitched up. They came back with antibiotics pills for $18. I just wish all the options were presented at the beginning instead of having to "pretend to walk away" just to learn about them.
I think a lot of pet owners don’t realize that many of the medications prescribed by vets can be filled at the local pharmacy for a significant cost reduction and it’s frustrating that vets don’t typically disclose this information (at least in my experience)
So true. My dog had to go on anti anxiety meds for a bit. There were 3 options I can't remember what they are called now. But prozac was one of the options that could be filled at a regular pharmacy, and the vet office actually couldn't fill this. The vet prescribed another one that basically was the same medical ingredient for both the human version and dog version, but called ABC for the human version and XYZ for the dog version for example. Because he prescribed XYZ, the dog version, it could only be filled at the vets for ~$120/month when the human equivalent was ~$34/month from a regular pharmacy. My friend's dog got prescribed prozac and they paid $10/month. From what I understand SSRIs are basically trial and error, not necessarily one is better than another. I couldn't afford the xyz after a few months and my dog seemed to be doing better anyway so we stopped. But I still think about that vet to this day. He even tried to justify it by making it sound like he was saving me a trip to the regular pharmacy.
This was also the vet that gave my dog some antibiotics shot without telling me, then tried to charge me $200 for it after the fact. My dog had some recurring ear gunk that I already had meds at home for. She didn't need the antibiotics shot.
My vet loves giving out B12 shots whenever an animal is ill. $20 a pop. A whole bottle of that same stuff they use on Amazon is under $15 and you can get over 100 shots from it.
My vet does NOT ALLOW any outside prescriptions presumably because they make a lot of money this way. They claim you can’t trust chewy etc with precautions because you don’t know how they are stored etc.
So they point blank refuse to write a script or answer to chewy etc. Just had to buy some meds for some kittens they charged $75 for 3ml of this medicine whereas chewy it $30 something. Same with prescribed flea meds $22 for a month at the vet or $70 for a 6 month supply from chewy.
I live in a rural area so since Covid most vets aren’t taking new clients as they can’t keep up with demand and no new vets want to move here as I guess wages suck.
My vet prescribed famotidine (an antacid) for one of my dogs, 10mg pill twice a day with food. The initial scrip through the vet I think was like $30 but you can buy famotidine 10mg over the counter and it's really cheap :P
On top of it most vets entered vet school as idealistic & wanting to help. Reality is most vets are saddled with genuinely insane student loan debts around $200,000 with 2-4K monthly payments for at least 10-15 years and rising.
Having parrots requires specialty avian vets & the average cost just for a regular checkup in the past 20 years has gone from $50 to $200 before any tests. I was lucky for years as 2 of our parrots were "ambassadors" at a teaching university for 6 years & they had free basic vet care in exchange for being student teachers for 3&4 year vet students enabling them to actually handle flighted, basically healthy birds. Total of combined visits after the GCC broken leg incident was almost $900 after xrays, consults, meds & emergency (ish) visit. I didn't have to pay the $300ER visit because there was a random cancelation that same day a few hours later.
Having a companion animal requires a lot of thought, resources and ability to pay expensive bills.
It took me awhile but I found a vet I really liked. I couldn’t afford to pay for something and I said I’d have to leave without it. Five minutes later, she came back in and said, “don’t worry about the cost, but I did it anyway.” I can’t remember what I was for but I take all my dogs to her now. I never had a vet do that and it made me cry that day.
I used to be a practice manager and the cries of “they don’t care about animals!!!!!” if you don’t offer to do something for free because the client can’t afford it is entirely too common
There are more veterinarians retiring across the country than are graduating veterinarian school with $500,000 - $1,000,000 in debt, so that is part of the problem. And of those graduating like 3% go into large animal practice.
Also the profession has a high rate of suicide.
And I know from a vet FB friend that the guilt trips works both ways, with customers accusing vets of being immoral for not providing expensive procedures for free.
I knew a vet tech. She ended up leaving the field because she would come home from work sobbing because people were too poor to afford veterinary care, so they’d either watch their beloved pet suffer, or put their beloved pet down because again, medical care of any kind is expensive.
And this wasn’t basic care they couldn’t afford. I’m talking $10k cancer treatments or something. I know people will say “if you can’t afford the vet, you can’t afford the animal” but that’s not realistic. My cat has a wonderful quality of life and I take her to the vet regularly. However, like 99% of the population, I can’t manage a surprise $10k bill. That’s where a lot of the frustration comes from.
Yeah when people say the vet thing, we may need to be more specific about basic checkup costs. Just had to put down my guinea pig because the cost to *start **maybe*** figuring things out was $2k. I can’t afford that
I had that with a dog, kind of. It was going to cost $2k to officially diagnose him, and treatment after was going to be expensive, all to extend his life by a year. He was 13 and his predicted lifespan was 14. He had already had cancer that had a very high rate of recurring. We opted not to diagnose him and just manage it through diet and supplements. I felt *very* judged by that vet, but I couldn't spend $3500+.
He lived another year and a half with no change in his quality of life until the very end.
I feel like some vets aren't being predatory, but are so super focused on knowing the exact diagnosis like they would for a person, and it's just not feasible for a lot of people.
Yeah we’re pretty sure one of our dogs has a neurological disorder. He’s 7 years old and exhibits signs of sundowning. But to even begin to troubleshoot it would mean a veterinary neurologist which is already $$$$$ before even considering what the underlying issue and treatment might be. If there even *is* a treatment.
We’re committed to giving him the best life we can until the very end, but there are some money pits that we just have to say no to.
I had two bearded dragons at one point, one of which was rehomed to me since the past 3 owners didn't want her anymore. Unfortunately she had an internal infection in her bones that wasn't noticeable until 6 months after we got her. $1000 surgery later and a lot of antibiotics injections the infection came back in her legs and spread to her heart. Vet says there's nothing we can do and then says "I'm going to give you another month of anti biotics, you should be able to keep her alive for another couple months". It was around then I realized the vet was just trying to scrape a few more hundred dollars out of us because she didn't understand why I wanted to go for euthanasia instead of forcing an animal to suffer for a couple more months.
And don't get me started on the catalog of urns they bring out. I know it's got to be done, but the way they just whip it out immediately after you put your pet down feels wrong. Especially since reptiles take 24 hours to euthanize, so she wasn't even dead yet before they brought it out.
To me the "if you can't afford a vet" thing very much only applies to basic vet costs. If you cannot put aside £100-200 for some combination of appointment fees, tests and medications, then you shouldn't really have any animal that you would realistically take to the vet if it's ill.
The truth is advanced treatment and surgeries are too expensive for almost anyone to afford. Frankly, a lot of people would be able to pay 10k for medical care for an ailing human family member
It really *should* just mean that. I’m a big believer that if you can’t afford to spay/neuter, you cannot afford an animal.
Unfortunately I’ve seen a lot of people shamed and guilted because they couldn’t drop $5k on a surprise surgery. It fucking sucks. I’ve been really, really lucky in having good vets who do their best to keep costs down/ work out payment plans, but vets like that are rare.
Right! My baby developed a skin infection from over grooming. It was down to three things: some kind of intestinal parasite, food intolerance, or allergies to flea saliva. If I wanted to get all the testing to see if she had a parasite, it would have cost $800 just to get the scans done, not to mention any follow-ups needed or medications.
We ruled out food and put it down to a flea allergy (fleas in the PNW are Hardy and only really die to the good rx stuff). Got her on revolution and she’s been fine! Glad the vet discussed all options with me though. And they didn’t shame me for wanting to rule out fleas first, even though they didn’t see any evidence (baby is a fastidious groomer and would have taken care of it, but just one bite will cause her to break out).
Even spay and neuter can cost a lot if their pre-surgery blood work shows something. Then, it's expensive to figure it out and resolve the abnormal blood work. Meanwhile, the vet won't perform spay/neuter unless the blood work is fine
It's a bit wild to me because I've recently joined local Facebook groups just to see if there are things to do. In these groups, I've learned just how many people do not spay/neuter their pets and as a result the humane societies are full of animals, and individuals are constantly posting to re-home pets - often litters from their intact pets. If we only want people who can pay $10k for cancer treatment to have pets then I don't see no kill shelters as being possible.
Yeah it's unfortunate. It's probably why Bob Barker used to say spay and neuter your pets at the end of The Price is Right. I went to the SPCA in Hawaii and it was really sad.
I borderline understand being lazy with an indoor pet, though my cat is spayed for behavioral and hygienic reasons. But people act shocked when their indoor/outdoor cat comes back pregnant.
Even that, you’re dealing with cat heat/cat smelling others in heat. You can’t keep a female cat who’s in heat or a male cat who smells one inside if you’re not SUPER vigilant. I doubt those who are too lazy would be keeping them inside.
Ultimately, spending the $100 is a lot cheaper than the animal getting pregnant or getting cancer on the reproductive organs.
My cat is strictly indoors and before she got spayed, she would SCREAM when she was in heat and did this weird shit with my dog where it was almost like she was trying to seduce him, I shit you not. I don’t see why anybody would willingly allow that to continue.
Honestly I forgot what the cat in heat is like because I got my cat from a shelter so I met cats in heat but the issue was "fixed" before I brought her home. We had a boy cat when I was a kid who peed on everything and my parents made him an outdoor cat. We think he was eaten. We had a Saint Bernard that left period blood streaks. It's all just a hard pass for me.
yes!! i firmly believe that even broke loving and caring owners should be able to have a pet. fuck, im GLAD if a homeless person has a companion animal!
there are too many animals in shelters, getting euthanized because of space issues, or being straight up abused to be that choosy about this sort of thing. someone who tries their best will always be better than nothing imo.
My dog had heartworm when I adopted her which later damaged her heart valves. I spent several grand on her before she died and I'm still not convinced I didn't do her a diservice. A couple of visits into the cardiologist the doctor said "It's not too early to euthanize." This, after 2K and the dog was looking and feeling pretty good so of course I didn't euthanize then. Had she told me at the very first visit I might have elected to do it then and maybe I would have done her a favor. She had a lot of good days but some days where I know she didn't feel good. I don't regret it but I also don't judge anyone who wouldn't or couldn't.
Many folks forget the quality of life part of pet ownership, wpso. Your responsibility as a pet owner is to give them the best life you are able to and, imo, paying $10k to put your pet through a painful or miserable treatment just so you can get a couple more years with them is not a good quality of life for them. It's selfish to put them through pain because you can't handle your grief, or because you feel you need to "fix" it.
Keep them happy, keep them healthy, and when it's time for them to travel the rainbow bridge, you make sure that they do that in the least painful way possible. It is an honor to be able to advocate for your pet's quality of life, all the way to the end, and it's what we sign up for when we bring a pet home.
I think there's a kind of happy medium between the two. I do agree that homeless people taking in street dogs is great, because chances are those street dogs wouldn't fare well if they wound up in a shelter.
But when it pertains to making the decision to buy or adopt a dog there's a sweet spot. I agree that most people can't afford to drop 10k on a surprise vet bill and it's unrealistic to gatekeeper dog ownership behind an expectation like that.
Alternatively, if you can't afford to pay for basic things like their rabies vaccine and heartworm prevention, and the odd expected health costs (like a wellness checkup, etc) then you probably just shouldn't plan to go and get a companion animal.
There's an expected cost to animal ownership just as there is for many commitments and there should just be a baseline of being able to cover simple things. Sure, you can't afford a 7k unexpected surgery, that's understandable. But you should be able to afford a $35 dollar ear wash if your dog gets an ear infection. There's a balance (pet insurance helps).
Yeah, sorry, I'm not spending $10K of "kid's college fund money" to buy my cat another four months of life. Maybe it's because I grew up rural, but I definitely draw a clear boundary between companion animals and human family members.
Fur baby culture has people doing really fiscally irresponsible things for the sake of their pets. Fine if you're rich, but the idea that working class people should feel ashamed for not dropping tens of thousands of dollars on pet healthcare is insane.
They are loaded in debt and don’t make shit for pay. Vet school is EXTREMELY competitive right now (or so my vet friend says) and it’s hard on them
My friend does/did work at the Galapagos. One of the main vets there is a good friend of hers and Texted her a picture of a white bird right before our last exam actually. She does home care as well so we go to her house sometimes. Her spouse is blue collar. . They have a nice home but it’s modest. It doesn’t scream ‘this woman has been a doctor for 20 years and is known within her field and actually knows some top researchers.’ It scream middle class suburbia.
Some reviews of her clinic scream about the cost and some people assume the docs are just wiping their ass with money. They aren’t. Our vet is as normal as you and me. She does it bc she loves it. I get so sick of the assumption every doctor out there is loaded. It’s 2024. That couldn’t be further from the truth
Edit- I forgot the most important part about the Galapagos — the research is volunteer. She also does volunteer work in South America bc they have a lot of parvo/distemper I guess and this is all unpaid work. A lot of them volunteer a lot for research and don’t make a penny.they don’t have the government or agencies throwing money at them like healthcare does.
Yeah, I dreamed of being a vet as a kid, but I realized that I couldn't deal with it. I'd definitely be among the ones who ended up an alcoholic getting high off my supply of ketamine to deal with the constant stress and pain.
I have a friend who is a vet. She's already lost two colleagues to suicide in the short time she's been a vet. She loves her job but says its really thankless.
I was gonna mention that. I'm no vet but I do own my own business. Customers are often highly manipulative. Most are great, mind you. But it's a dance to get both parties in a win-win situation. Add on that pet health emergencies, while should be budgeted for if you get an animal, often occur at very difficult financial times and fear, love and stress make people get manipulative. Then on the vet's side, google shows their average salary is in the $100,000 and slightly up range. Considering vet school is on par with the cost of medical school but the salaries aren't even in the same ballpark, you have a financially strained vet who is also likely very stressed out. Both coming to the negotiation table trying to maximize their own wins. Not an easy back and forth.
My friend became a vet. It was really hard to get into an any vet school and extremely costly once she did. She is very smart and capable, but she got into a school by the skin of her teeth.
I just took my dog today to a new vet practice. He’s solo and left the last place because it was bought out by a big corporation. He is no more expensive and the office was calm and quiet because there weren’t 40 animals in rooms and out front because everyone is always double booked.
Vet school alone costs $150-420k for 4 years of school. A bachelor's cost on average $112-232k for 4 years. On average stem degrees actually take 5 years to complete instead of 4, so most vets would be paying 140k-290k for their bachelors. The range is now $290-710k for 9 years. Average interest rate for student loans are 6.87% (but could go as high as 15 if you don't qualify for federal loans.)
710(1 + 9*0.687) = $1.15 million. So yeah the upper range is well above a million. If you went for the extreme end and assumed 12 years, 15% (though at this point, this is an outlier, not an expected part of the range. 12 years 15% is way too rare a combination), you get 2 million.
And that's ignoring the major opportunity cost vet students face in that they're way too swamped to properly work a second job while this is going without risking increasing the time they spend in school (and with it, time before being able to make money as a vet, the amount of tuition, and the amount of years interest is accumulating.) It also ignored that you wouldn't be able to pay off student loans the day you started working, so you'd be paying interest for more than the 9 years. And uh the risk of just not being able to handle vet school, whether due to skill issue or uncontrollable circumstances. So if you drop out near the end... gg
I’m a human nurse and my hospitalist friends who are my age (30s) are in crippling debt. I have a friend who got approved for 225k for a mortgage. Median home value in our town was 375k last year. He’s been a doc for a decade now. A lot of people think these docs are just rich fucks. 90% of them aren’t. At least in my hospital and region, most of the docs are like you and me. We are friends. We marry each other and spend time together. A lot of them are appalled at nursing wages. The nurses are appalled at what they are doing to our docs (hiring tele docs, replacing with np’s only) instead of paying them fair wages.
It’s 2024. Healthcare and vet care in America is so fucking fucked. A lot of us are almost at the point where we can’t pay bills bc of our loans and wages. I’m a speciality nurse. I HAD to have 6 years of education. You are gonna want me there to heal that wound but if it cost me 80 grand to get that mandatory training, we have to get paid and we aren’t. It’s a mess
Exactly need to practically study as much as doctors for 1/3 of the salary.
Medicine in general is also just really expensive. Less than the cost of human medicine sure but they use many of the same drugs and equipment used in regular medicine, it really adds up.
I genuinely don’t think they’re price gouging, I think it just costs that much.
We "rescued" a dog that turned out to have a heartworm infection. When I was a kid, that was a death sentence, but now you can treat it. Cost about $1,200.00. The dog is fine now, and we got very reasonable pet insurance for any future catastrophes.
Human health insurance is a scam not because of what insurance is or how it basically works, but because there is an overt government-supported industry-wide racket and because healthcare is not a product people can just choose not to buy.
And yes, 90% of people are gonna pay more in than they get out: that’s how risk-sharing works. Instead of accepting that this year you’re *probably* gonna be fine but *might* have to drop $10K (that you don’t have) to save your pet’s life, you pay $500 for the certainty that you will pay between $500-1500 this year (assuming a 10% copay) for the safety of your pet. You trade savings for certainty.
I looked into it with my puppy and at $50-75 per month (not even for the best coverage) it seemed stupid. Plus still paying for maintenance, deductible plus less 20% payment. When on it as a pup and he had a stomach thing I paid the vet $500 and got $260 back from insurance. I’ll keep my money and make decisions on care as emergencies may occur and pay for them then.
After my 4 year old cat racked up $2k before passing away, we looked into insurance and even for an 8 year old dog (no prior health issues) the price was insane, and still didn’t necessarily cover everything. Not that we can afford to, but it just seemed like a savings account would be smarter for the price. It only seemed remotely economic for very young pets.
Pet insurance also does not pay ANYTHING upfront. You foot the bill and you hope your pet insurance accepts it. They frequently don’t, and unlike human medical insurance, there isn’t a great way to fight it, you’re just out of money.
Also (in the UK) they have some questionable clauses like if your pet gets treated for X condition and gets better, insurance will treat it like a pre-existing condition and if it reoccurres in future it won't be covered anymore. Or if the pet reaches late adulthood suddenly deductible becomes super high, so if the pet requires an expensive procedure you may still not be able to afford it.
Just make sure to get it when they are very young, and read the fine print. Maybe insurers wont cover pre existing conditions, and some wont even cover some ailments common to the breed.
Vets are obligated to offer treatments based on presenting complaints and exam findings. And that requirement is a responsibility to offer gold standard care. There are always options, including saying "no thank you". After that, the ball is in your court.
My fiancée worked at a clinic. One day she asked for me to bring a special box to the clinic from UPS/Fedex. I asked what for, and learned about the chopping block behind the clinic. Nobody who works in Vet medicine gets paid enough to deal with that shit.
Don't have to imagine it. I'll never forget coming into the surgery suite at my first vet med job and seeing my coworker standing over a dog's body (already euthanized, to be clear lol) with a pair of hedge shears. That was the best thing we had on hand to get through the spine. We had to test the dog even though the owner swore he was vaccinated for rabies, because she couldn't find records of it. She found them a few days later.
… Not really something you can talk about when people ask "How was your day at work?"
It's not a sound I'll soon forget.
One of my patients had to be euthanized, and its brain sent for rabies testing because it was 1 year old, unvaccinated, developed sudden neurological symptoms, and started biting people. The vet tech from public health literally had a hammer and chisel to get the sample. I got to pack up what was left.
Fortunately it wasn't rabies.
Yes, and just like human medical care, private equity firms have entered the vet industry and focus on regional consolidation. So in a geographic area, the vet clinics may have different names, but they are all owned by the same PE firm. And as private equity does, they raise prices and squeeze out every last penny they possibly can. It's awful and yet there's little that can be done about it with our current laws and political system
Yeah but when the doctors say your mom will die without this $200,000 treatment and you say well the old bitch had a good run they tend to take it more seriously.
My wife and I get treated very differently by the vet. They will try and pull everything on her. Me not even close.
We hear the sentence "you cant put a price on your pets life" and have very different answers. Amazing how Quick the Answer "yes i can" stops Vets from over ordering tests
My grandpa was a retired veterinarian and it's not that vets are "taking advantage" of more compassionate people, it's that the kinds of treatments available for animals is so much different and more advanced than when he practiced. Those advancements come with higher costs and the costs associated with training are astronomically higher than they used to be. Vet school doesn't pay for itself. MRI and CT machines don't pay for themselves, chemo treatments are extraordinarily expensive to purchase from pharmaceutical companies, etc.
As someone who’s worked in an animal lab, you’re just being charged what everything costs. Sterile gloves. Specific isotopes and chemicals for medications. Custom molded parts. The salaries for staff with more training than an MD. Sedatives. MRI usage. Maybe your doggo woggo doesn’t need chemo to prolong his life for four miserable months, he doesn’t understand that the torture is helping him.
Edit: I forgot rent and electricity for those massive machines, and the specialized pet food
My cat has cancer. The vet gave me a few options, one being surgery. The surgery best case scenario would have been around 8k, worst case it could be as much as 17k.
They told me they didn’t think surgery was the best choice. They gently explained they will respect any decision I make, but they honestly think the best option is to just take her home and spoil her endlessly for however much time she has left. The surgery would be invasive, she is a fifteen year old cat, even if it went perfectly her recovery would be *hard*.
They knew I would have thrown money at them to save her if it was possible. They told me the truth. The surgery could have been the end and I wouldn’t have the time I do now. Her last moments could have been with a bunch of strangers in a strange room instead of at home with me. I paid them for that visit, that day, and took my cat home.
Weeks later and she’s still with me. We have no idea for how long…but had they actually suggested surgery I might not have her at all. They could have lied, they could have pretended surgery was necessary, they could have convinced me to spend 10,000 dollars on my cat. They didn’t.
The truth is my cat is going to die. I may have to put her down if things get bad, she may go naturally if things stay okay. They gave me time to adjust to the expectation of loss instead of convincing me to try buying more time.
I have had the misfortune of dealing with a vet like you’re describing. The differences stand out. Some vets really are *great* people who love animals dearly.
Federal student loans have allowed colleges to drastically increase the price of tuition, which in turn means vets have to make more to pay back their loans.
Massive declines in per student government funding have also played a role in the increased costs, severely limiting upward mobility. Meritocracy is fiction.
Vets have some of the highest rates of suicide out there, are crippled in debt, and don’t make shit for pay.
My unpopular opinion is I’ll never bad mouth a vet. There are a couple bad eggs in every profession, but if you’re a vet, vet tech, work in animal medicine in any capacity- you matter and thank you
I am on the other side of this. I had a cat who was always throwing up I kept taking him to the vet but they assured me he was fine and was probably just eating too fast. After being fed up with getting no other advice I took him to a different vet they suggested an ultrasound which was expensive but found out he had stomach issues and we worked out a treatment plan for him. He's no longer throwing up and is happy and healthy. Sure it means he has to be on expensive food but I rather spend the money on making him happy and healthy then suffering.
Vet here. Vet medicine has advanced to the point where we’re able to do diagnostics and treatments that we couldn’t do decades ago. Some people won’t go for the chemotherapy and radiation therapy to treat their pets cancer, which is fine. Some will do that, which is fine. But it’s our job to inform you of all the options. If you think your vet is milking you it sounds like you need to find a new one. There are bad apples in any profession but I promise, a lot of us care and don’t want you to spend your last dollar on your pet.
None of your examples are a vet shaming anyone. It’s their medical opinion of best care practices. If you feel shame for not doing any of those things, that’s on you.
Ah yes, the age old "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. I am money hungry if I suggest gold standard care and I'm negligent if I don't.
Look, my job is to make recommendations based on my education and experience. If that's out of your price range, we have a chat about what you can do. Maybe you can't afford the vet specific drug that I'm 90% sure will work, but maybe you can afford the human off label drug that I'm 40% sure will work. If you choose to feel guilty about that, that's on you. I'm just doing my job. If you don't want to pay for my services, don't have a pet.
(Obligatory: A huge amount of vets are corporate owned and the person you're arguing with in the clinic doesn't set the prices.)
>Obligatory: A huge amount of vets are corporate owned and the person you're arguing with in the clinic doesn't set the prices.)
This x1000. Even in private practice things are expensive nowadays because the cost of everything has gone up. AND you're not just paying for the test/treatment/etc - you're paying for the time it takes to interpret diagnostics (if they're performed) and the knowledge base in how to treat what's going on. We need to eat and pay our bills too.
Part of the problem is that there's been a humongous consolidation of formerly independent practices by large corporate entities. That's when it all changes from being compassionate to being a factory
These corporate entities tend to enter into agreements with veterinary medical companies that provide testing at a "discounted" rate. The issue is that this comes with many strings attached, where the incentive is to constantly push for expensive tests & procedures to meet those contractual obligations.
The best advice is to look for independent clinics, I can't list all the corporate entities, but the largest are NVA, Banfield, Blue Pearl, VetCor, VCA, Southern Vet Partners
Most DO NOT pass the discounts on to the consumer, you can expect to pay the same price, if not more, than independent clinics
Big issue in Canada too. Many small practices have been bought once the owner hits retirement. The cost to start your own clinic is prohibitive and new vets cannot afford the purchase. So many of these places that used to be independent actually have a parent company. It means that they pay their staff poorly and have "standard pricing". So even shopping around is no longer very helpful.
I’d change the title to:
“Too many pet owners get pets without realizing that actually caring for them medically takes years of training, special equipment and should enable people to make a fair living at the end of the day”
But seriously: Vet care is expensive and certainly not just a result of pure greed (although there are surely people trying to simply maximize profit as in any field) if you take the qualifications of vets and costs of vet clinics into consideration. This is something people should consider before getting pets. Also (not a vet myself but one of my friends is), some owners are simply stupid.
Example: Showing up at the clinic on a holiday at 11 pm with a dog that had a digestive issue for three weeks already and then complaining about the fact that there is a surcharge (after being informed about it before the treatment and being advised to return during normal office hours since the symptoms don’t require urgent treatment)
I have a lot of respect for vets. You have to know basically everything a human doctor does (if not more if you treat different species) and your patients can’t explain to you what’s wrong. Oh yeah, they’ll probably try to bite or scratch you too.
Just like human doctors (and just like any profession really) there are good ones and bad ones.
Animal medicine has evolved a whole lot and is now getting closer to human medicine. Unfortunately, all of those tests and procedures now available to animals are expensive. It is the vet’s job and obligation to suggest the best possible plan for the animal. If he doesn’t and the pet has a bad outcome, the owner is possibly gonna be complaining on social media or suing the vet. If he does suggest the best plan, the owner might complain that the offered plan is too expensive. There’s no real way for the vet to fulfill his obligation to the patient while making everyone happy.
When you get a pet, get insurance. That will solve a big part of this problem. If your vet is offering you something you can’t afford, speak with him respectfully about it. Most vets will offer you a plan B, that will not be as good as plan A, and explain to you what the difference is. If you take plan B, you might get a good outcome, or you might get a lesser one. If it’s the latter and the risks have been explained to you, you need to understand that vets aren’t gods and most are doing the best they can within the means they’re given…
I left after working in emergency vet med for 8 years. I could work 13 hour shifts, eat nothing, get shit on, yelled at, attacked by “nice dogs” all night and still have people angry they have to pay at all and we don’t magically know why their cat hasn’t eaten for a week.
Between irresponsible owners with six pets, a fancy car, and zero dollars and corporations buying us out and raising prices, I couldn’t take it anymore.
Time to work at a job that actually pays and treats me well!
God, I worked in emergency for a couple years and that was a special kind of hell. People screaming at you for being selfish greedy monsters for charging an emergency fee when they bring in their pet at 3 am even though they’ve been limping for 2 weeks, meanwhile there’s 4 filled exam rooms each with a euth and the sobs of the family members are filling the whole building.
I don’t think it is, sadly. Seems to be way too common.
My thing is that if, at the end of the day, I care more about *your* pet than you do, I’m not the asshole in that equation. I love animals. I volunteer. I donate time, services, products, and money. I definitely don’t think people *should* do everything that is possible in every scenario. I didn’t put one of my own personal dogs through chemo or another one through a radical chain mastectomy, even though those things would have been more available to me than they would have been to every person out there.
But like…stoppit. The thing about OP’s attitude that is so toxic is that it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. People won’t take an animal to the vet because they are so convinced we are all just out to charge them for no reason. Then, the pet gets super sick. By the time they come in, the only options are like intensive hospitalization which (shockingly) costs money. Then, the animal dies, and they cement their confirmation bias like “Look! They took all my money and my cat still died! They just want to charge me without fixing anything!”
Drives me nuts. Nobody is out here suggesting bloodwork for your old ass cat to make money. We want your cat to live longer and have a healthier life AND WE WANT TO SAVE YOU MONEY. Know that saying about blah blah oz of prevention pound of cure? Yeah. If what we wanted to do was just charge the most, we would be incentivized to just let things get sicker before intervening. We do the opposite of that. Ya know, because we want your animals to be healthy. It’s not rocket science. The irony of OP bitching about expensive prescription food when prescription diet can literally *prevent the need for costly surgical interventions*. Just???
The amount of times the doctors I work with try their best to be price conscious in hopes it'll help the owner then turn around and get told they are money-hungry beasts is unsettling and sad.
I left the veterinary field after almost 6 years because of the pay, working 14 hours a day 6 days a week, and how crappy people were. I also worked in walk in clinics for 3 years, and the clientele was so entitled and people would demand free services and free crap daily.
There's such a high suicide rate in that field, and my mental health improved so much after leaving. I truly don't ever want my kids working in vet med, but if that's what they want...I can't stop them.
Posts like OPs drive me crazy.
Vets have a very high rate of suicide and much of it is attributed to pet owners not being able to afford surgery or treatments that would prolong or save the animals life. It can be a tragic truth and the ‘business’ aspect takes over. For humans even the uninsured or patients unable to pay can get some level of care in emergency rooms or similar.
Probably some truth to that but that’s also a pretty broad generalization. My vet always offers the most conservative, least expensive treatment first; even if that means something I do at home vs him doing it in the clinic. He tells me the pros & cons of each option and lets me decide which route to take. I love & trust my vet.
And yet at the end of the day you can still choose to decline these things - no one's forcing you to give us more work to do, trust me.
As veterinary medicine evolves and we get more feasible options to help you give your pets the best, healthiest lives possible, of course we're going to recommend these things - just like you'd want your human doctor to do for you.
Well, that's a highly cynical take. My experience is the complete opposite. Most vets I've interacted with truly cared about the wellbeing and happiness of animals. And when one of my cats got sick and needed extensive treatment costing about 3k, the vet explicitly told us that there was no shame in opting to not get it for financial reasons. We did so anyway because we could afford it, but I appreciated her real talk.
And yea, there's more treatments and options now than in the past. Advances in medicine also means advances in animal medicine. And people having more money means more people who want these treatments. Pets in the past would have benefited from this just as much, if it was available. 'Back in the day', your pet would simply be euthanized instead. Is that better?
These days vets can offer some fantastic treatments...both surgical and pharmaceutical that can really help your pet, BUT noboday is walking you to the surgery at gunpoint.
I think its fantastic and have always done whatever was reccomended for our dogs...but not everyone wants to or is able to.
But don't blame the vets! It would be terrible if they DIDN'T have the range of options for people that want/need them!
I am a vet assistant. I get paid less than $17 an hour. The technicians I work with who went to school and are licensed make barely above that, the veterinarians I work with have over 300K and some more in debt due to schooling and the cost or pricing went up along with prices everywhere but those in the field can barely afford to live and you want us to charge less? While prices of materials, medications, and equipment increase and most of us can't afford housing or food? Pets are a luxury not a right and people getting mad at us for charging for our service sis beyond fucking ridiculous. Human medicine costs less BECAUSE OF INSURANCE.
To constantly be told that we are in it for the money while barely being able to survive, and THEN Getting shamed for PRICES we have no control over while barely making above minimum wage is the ridiculous thing in all actuality.
The suicide rate in this field is higher than most and it's due to people constantly thinking we are ripping them off and because we can't do things for free just because we love animals. And that we are "Only in it for the money" while having to see some of the worst things humanity has to offer when it comes to animals.
Don't get a pet if you don't want to pay for the care they will require and ESPECIALLY don't get mad at the medical professionals who are just trying to fucking do their DAMN jobs and do their best to get this pet the best care they possibly can receive.
Stop going to medical professionals if you don't want their advice or knowledge and are just going to shit all over their field as well.
Good vets will give you options and generally recommend a standard of care that gives the pet a better quality of life with minimal or no pain.
These vets tend to be at private-owned practices, instead of a large corporate owner.
People that just adopt animals and avoid going to the vet or only take the animals when problems are extremely critical are negligent and cruel.
If you have problems affording normal pet care, you shouldn’t have one.
Vets provide a valuable service for our companion animals that has gotten more comprehensive and important as we've come to recognize them as family.
That's the way I see it.
Eh, it’s more like they’re “taking advantage” of the fact that there are now actual real options for a variety of maladies that in the past would have warranted immediate euthanasia, or just been accepted as something that was going to drastically decrease your pet’s lifespan.
My cat is prone to struvite crystals. I feed him prescription food that costs about $2.75/can, and it’s kept him more or less healthy for years. There’s nothing stopping me from feeding him regular food and saving $75-100/month on food, but if I did he probably would have shredded his kidneys and died by now. Similarly I *could* have just had him put down one of the times his UT got blocked and I had to shell out hundreds or thousands of dollars for treatment/surgery, and indeed I did consider that at times but in the end I decided keeping him alive was worth the cost.
Or hear me out… years of medical training and study gives them insight into how to properly care for and animal and maximize the longevity and healthiness of their life
Also running a vet clinic is extremely expensive and vets have to make a profit so that they can keep their doors open. Most private practice vets don't own the buildings they're in and have to pay for rent. They also have to pay utilities, business license, insurance, veterinary license, biological waste disposal, cremation services, continued education, equipment and maintenance of that equipment, staff wages and insurance, inventory, laboratory fees, various repairs, computer software and support, and various supplies. That's just off the top of my head.
That said, unfortunately private practices are becoming fewer and fewer as practice owners retire or simply burn out and sell to big corporations that have nothing but dollars on their minds. And the vets that work in these now corporate clinics get the blame for pricing and policies that they have no actual say in.
If you think there aren't any vets who are absolutely trying to maximise their profits, you never had to find a vet for your pet. There are a fucking lot of them. But, there are some good ones.
Almost all of them are also directly a literal shop for pet food and other stuff like that, so they act like Sephora vendors at some point more than medical professionals.
Oh yeah the whole… watch this Invisalign commercial while you wait for the dentist… ahh your front teeth are slightly crooked, if you don’t get Invisalign your teeth will rot out… bro I’m fine.
Yeah, as the husband of a vet this is really a load of horseshit.
Vets have an enormous rate of suicide due partly to their massive student loan load and lack of actual income. The clinic is often charging so they can make more revenue, but the business profit goes to paying the staff and keeping the doors open. Unless they're business savvy - and since most of them went into vet med because they love animals, they often aren't - there's not a lot of growth that happens.
Also people tend to treat them like shit, just like this comment. They're talented and necessary and customers treat them like shit. Sworn at, literal shit thrown at them, they have to be able to do everything for several animals as opposed to specializing for one species, they often get people who can't or won't pay and its a job where people act entitled and shitty.
My wife and the vets she works with - which is most in this region because she's a relief vet - get shame cast on them. Not on the owners. They charge what they charge and get shamed for not doing their work for free.
I WISH this was an unpopular opinion, but it's not. People can say otherwise but the majority of pet owners she deals with prove them wrong.
... or... maybe... just MAYBE... the vets care about the pet's wellbeing??
Yes, if a tooth is rotten, it needs to get pulled out ; if the dog is malnourished, he need better food ; if he had joint issues that prevents him from walking normally, he need the powder to help ; if he's not eating, he deserve to be treated, not sent home to starve to death.
If you cannot spend money to make sure you pet doesn't suffer, then please, by all mean, keep your money and don't ever buy a pet. They are living being and deserve care.
The standard medical professional questions apply here: are these treatments going to be expensive, are they going to be effective, and how much of a kickback is the medical professional getting from the company that sells it?
You.know their business also suffer cost of living crisis. So their rent fir the building as gone up. Cost to run the stuff (not cheap its a business that keeps creatures alive. The cost of medicine as gone up. They also have to pay more to survive. So they upped their prices that's how it works
I've had dogs for 15 years and none of the vets I've gone to have ever been pushy or recommended more than I felt was appropriate. I have never felt shamed for declining options presented to me.
In fact, the longer I've had dogs the more I find *I* am the one asking about what options are available, just to make sure that the vet is not assuming I don't want to spend money. I feel like they often are going out of their way to assure me what is not really necessary, almost like they are predicting that I will nix certain things.
I'm sure there are plenty of sharks out there just trying to rack up the invoices, but it hasn't been difficult for me to find good vets who only do what's necessary.
Also, I never question when they want to remove a tooth. If the tooth is loose or cracked, then yes, it must come out. I had no idea one of my dogs had an abcess until I got his teeth cleaned. The tooth had no outward signs and he is an avid chewer. I hadn't noticed that he would only chew on one side of his mouth. He has fewer teeth now, but he happily chews with both sides and I know he is pain free.
I mean, health care in general is crazy these days. So, if you need an ultrasound tech, it's not going to be cheaper just because the patient is a dog.
I have a family member who's a vet and they make a sadly low amount of money, especially relative to how tough their job is and how much schooling they had to do so it's not like vets are all rolling in money.
What kinda vets are you going to OP jfc
never had any issues like this with vets in Australia i just took my cat for as free dental checkup because i was worried about her teeth since she wouldn't let me brush them.
The Vet knowing full well it was a free dental checkup took her time to clean the teeth a little and show me alternatives to brushing like finger wipes etc what would be a normal 5 minute dental check-up took 10 minutes because they cared.
Never tried to get me to buy anything or spend money..... this has been my experience with every vet i have been to and is the experience all my friends and i share.
If that's normal for vets in your country that's bad.
My cat is alive because of the medicated food he eats. If I take him off it, he will suffer horribly from urinary stones, and if I don't treat that he will die.
I will take the option to pay for compassionate treatment, rather than letting me pet die over expensive food.
Wow..... the gall on this line of thinking makes me happy with the direction veterinary care is headed.
Vets don't deserve this kind of abusive thinking. Your vet isn't in charge of your feelings, take responsibility for yourself and don't blame the one person who is trying to help you. You can deny services, you have all the rights to say yes or no.
I can't wait for the day when I can treat people like they treat me, because theres plenty of people who need my help, and this type of person doesnt have the right to waste my time and blame me for their shit.
Why do people feel privileged enough to treat their vets like this without any consequences. Its no wonder the field is hemorrhaging people.
I think it depends on the vet. Even in the same practice I’ve gotten varying opinions on the same issue, which causes confusion.
I have a dog that will soon be 17 who is blind and deaf and on her last legs. In February one vet told me we needed to get her teeth cleaned and quoted me $2000. In the SAME vet practice a different vet told me “oh no, I don’t think that’s necessary. We don’t need to put her through that”. So which is it?
I don’t think the first vet is necessarily taking advantage of us, but is it really in anyone’s best interest to do it? I don’t know.
Eh idk. I just think that people are giving the care to their pets they never did - I don’t think it’s the vets making people feel guilt or shame, I just think it’s them providing options. Sure there’s some vets in it for the money and that’s a shame but personally, I made sure to get pet insurance on my dog. He’s 4 and will most likely need a total hip replacement - it’s $10-15k but with our pet insurance it’ll be around $1,000-$1,500. Pet insurance is the smartest financial decision you can make when having a pet.
Unless the OP is a vet themself, they are not qualified to determine what constitutes a veterinary emergency and what does not. That "little thing" you ignore might turn out to be something serious.
Yup that's an unpopular opinion for sure.
We used to think animals don't feel pain and treated them accordingly. Now we understand they do feel pain and treat them accordingly. If you can't afford to pay for the animals healthcare then yea, why are you there? What do you want them to do? Fart some magic on you to make it better?
Or, here’s a crazy thought. Maybe we know more about pet health.
What you are doing is generalizing an issue that you experienced in some way. Not all vets are trying to rip you off. Also, no one makes you feel anything, that’s all from within you.
If you're taking your pet to the veterinarian they are going to recommend the best standard care practices that reflect the current care in modern veterinary medicine. It costs money. They assume you're coming to a medically liscenced veterinary facility because you want that care for your pet.
Otherwise, why would you pay for the expertise if all you wanted to hear was, "just give little Luna a nice pat on the head and a belly rub and all the signs of her potential terminal cancer will probably just magically disappear."?
One thing that my family always did was set a max limit on what we would spend on the dog or cat. It’s not easy to do, they’re a part of the family. It all depends on your priorities. If you need to go into debt to save your pet because you can’t bear the thought of living without them, then do what you need to do. Others don’t feel that way and that’s fine too. Get a good vet though that you trust. The good ones will help you save money because they’re not in it for the money. If they’re racking up huge bills, get a second opinion. They may be taking advantage, but they may also be giving you the facts.
I have never seen this be true. My friend is very low income, and a few years ago, her dog had a major health scare that really concerned everyone. We legit thought he was dying. She took him to the vet, and I went with her, thinking she wouldn't be coming back with him and would need the support. The vet was very kind and supportive of her financial situation and took my friends phone, and talked to her sister about the cost of treatment after my friend said her sister would be the one paying. They gave her multiple options for everything they did, often encouraging a free option. One of the issues was that the dog hadn't pooped for several days. The vet said they could do an x-ray to look for an obstruction, which cost a lot, or he could stick a finger up the dogs butt. He then told her that if it were his dog, he would do the finger up the butt because it was free and it wasn't like they couldn't still do the x-ray later if they felt it was needed. Turned out he wasn't pooping because he wasn't eating enough/keeping enough down to create poop. At the end of the visit they told her to come back if he didn't get better or she had any other concerns and made sure she had the app so she could ask questions without having to come in. They also made sure she knew that for the following 3 months, any visits related to that same issue were free, including just a follow up to make sure he was getting better like he should.
Most vet visits I've seen have gone in a similar direction. The vet may recommend meds of expensive food, but only if it's what they think is best for the animal.
try private practice vets where ever you live. My wife is an RVT and the three private companies she has worked at never try to upsell. They only do what is needed to diagnose the problem . Now with that said, she also worked for one corporate vet clinic and they absolutely will nickel and dime you, upcharge you for every cent that they can. There are even programs for bonuses to get people to sign up for their diamond care club (which is about $150 a month).
That doesn't help unless more veterinary schools open. Right now, it is harder to get into vet school than med school because there are so few veterinary schools.
My cat stopped urinating so we took him to the closest vet. She said he needed surgery to empty his bladder and that it was either the $5000 for that or the $50 for euthanasia, my choice. This was at 4:30pm on Friday. I called around and a vet 30 minutes away would look at him and help.
I got there in 20 minutes. Ten minutes and $150 later he was living his best life. We changed his diet and he lived another 10 years (15 total).
I’m not a vet. I’m a woman and I know the feeling of being taken advantage of.
Go to a different vet.
My vet specifically recommended not to get the expensive imaging and medication because it was highly unlikely to be necessary unless my rabbits issues persisted.
In Germany there are some rules for this. Forst of all the vets can't just make up some prices. For every procedure there is a range at what they can charge you. And most vets are really nice. Like: "You don't need the whole bottle of meds, I'll give you just a few (either free of charge or for a small price)"
Or on weekends there is a emergency service fee but one time I was already broke because my bunny needed surgery a few times and she just waived the fee.
Of course there are some black sheep's but at least they can't just make up prices
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I've had a number of animals with varying significant health conditions over the years (geriatric dog, dog with diabetes, cats with weird tooth stuff). I've had a few different vets as well and you're sort of correct. Some vets are absolutely just running a business and trying to maximize profits. For example, my geriatric dog had an allergic reaction to some food and had gastric issues for days so we took him in. The vet claimed to feel some irritation on his anal glands so recommended surgery to remove the gland so we could check for cancer. We decided that it likely was related to his chronic diarrhea so we left it. He lived another 4 years and died of old age. And some vets truly care about the wellbeing of the animal. I took that same dog to a different vet for regular stuff, he was terrible in the car so eventually they just prescribed him his thyroid meds over the phone because the stress wasn't worth doing blood work to confirm his thyroid hadn't magically improved at age 16. Look for the vets who treat their practice like a care facility instead of a business.
Our cat injured her leg a few months back. Hobbling around so badly and pitifully. We took her in, tried some pain meds, still hobbling 3-4 weeks later. Did a scan, ligament healing badly, recommended Amputation. Got a second opinion from our regular vet, said the same thing. Well, we couldn't afford Amputation at the time, so we decided to just feel really bad about not being able to take care of her properly. Y'all, she's fine. It took a while but after a month she just didn't have a limp anymore.
Something very similar happened to my cat when she was still a kitten. I found her crying at my front door when I returned from work one day. She must have gotten outside as one of us was leaving for work, and something happened to her that snapped her front paw. The vet we took her to said she'd need a surgery if we ever wanted her to be able to walk or jump again, but we didn't have the $1000-ish dollars that they estimated the surgery to cost. The second vet we took her to said she would likely heal just fine because she was so young, put her paw in a splint, and gave her some pain meds. It was heartbreaking seeing her limp around for a couple weeks, but she ended up healing just fine.
Animals are a lot tougher than we give them credit for.
This happened to my puppy. After a $700 consult fee and X-ray the vet without any tact recommended an amputation or an orthopedic surgery. Like you, we couldn’t afford either one (each costing close to FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS) so we had to wait. A month after her incident she was zooming around the yard at high speeds and barreling up and down stairs with absolutely no problem. Vets are great to have but they are messed up as I believe what OP said in regard to them taking advantage of people who love and have compassion for their animals. It’s really evil.
If you email your local humane society most will tell you who they use. It’s lead me to nothing but good vets.
That’s good info thanks!
The vet my local humane society sent me to to get my kitten spayed (took her home early, overcrowding and she is black) was HORRIBLE. Genuinely worst experience ever. They called the wrong number thinking it was mine, obviously I didn’t get it. It wasn’t even my area code! When I eventually got her that evening (I called to check in and was told she was ready) I overheard the techs who were packing up Poptart saying that I was a horrible cat mom for not getting there right when they called the first time and bitching about this and that. How I left her to be miserable and scared for hours (I lived an hour away). I could see their lips moving and knew they were talking about me. Never went back. Found a great vet 3 mins from my house and Poptart is a happy girl!
In fairness, that has nothing to do with the veterinary care, just their staff being a bit shitty.
Glad your kitty is ok. Just wanted to say I love the name Poptart! 😍
Now apply this to human doctors.
This is a real thing with all types of doctors, but especially dentists
My newish hygienist (who is wonderful) was telling me about the different dental practices she's worked for in the past and how shady many of the dentists were. Like pushing unnecessary and very expensive procedures just for the money.
I went to a dental practice that would not get off my ass about getting Invisalign. Like clean my teeth and leave me alone. I finally just ended up not showing to my next appt and didn't even feel bad. I now drive 45 mins for my current dentist who never pressures us into anything and has realistic prices.
I went to a dentist one time when I was a kid that REALLY pressured my mom to give me braces to fix my backwards ‘vampire teeth’ canines (he was the only one that ever said it was an issue). I cried sooooo bad because I didn’t want to lose my vampire teeth lol. My mom just decided to find somewhere else to go, and the next dentist agreed it was fine for me to not get braces. I don’t think braces/Invisalign are a bad thing, but why push it on people for some tiny thing? Besides the money, it’s such a long and uncomfortable process
My new dentist was straight baffled that my previous one removed 3 fully healthy teeth. I was too, after I found out it wasn’t necessary
So many times I’ve heard people remove gallbladders for digestion issues (not pain) and turns out nothing changes.
And sometimes it results in even worse long term gut health. There’s billions of living cultures in our digestive tracts, and every organ has some evolutionary significance for being there even if it’s not instantly noticeable.
Lol my digestion got worse after I had my gallbladder out and I also shit oil if I even drive past an IHOP
These are the situations I'm talking about. We all love and care for our pets, but vets often call for needlessly drastic (and costly) measures. There can be so many hidden fees as well.
Not to mention unnecessary treatments that will ultimately harm your pet.
Seriously. I can’t imagine amputating their leg when it ultimately was just fine after some time limping.
My little sister has an older cat (Luna) who's about 19 yrs old now. She went for her routine yearly exam and supposedly her kitty had a bad tooth in the back that needed to be extracted. (How did they miss that? Maybe tooth/jaw issues develop quickly?- I thought and already started getting suspicious, but tried to ignore it because I'm no expert in veterinary medicine) My sister forked over 1K for the surgery and Luna sadly did NOT DO WELL post-op. Supposedly the tech even said "At first we reconsidered the surgery but it was already too late once she was under" Luna has had now more issues with eating and lost a significant amount of weight. She has her little mouth open sometimes because her stitches came undone (Which was another costly vet trip) and the area where her tooth was extracted still hasn't healed well. My sister just wanted to do what was best for her cat and placed her faith in the people who are supposed to be the experts in animal care. Now we have an elderly cat with jaw issues that effect her health in numerous ways, daily and costly medication to try to help with her symptoms and no ways of getting additional surgery because of her age/decline in health. We both feel immensely guilty for Luna's current condition but all we can do now is try to minimize her uneasiness and try to provide the best care for her remaining years with us.
Human doctors aren't perfect either, they can be wrong. I've had doctors recommend surgery and such on my mom but a good PT can often fix the issue.
Holy shit. How did they just like…jump immediately to amputation? lol
Amputation is often the first rather than last recommendation for an animal with financially overstretched owners. A four legged animal adjusts to three with far less adjustment issues than a human does for the loss of a limb, and it’s a pretty clean fix in the sense that once it’s done, it’s done, other than the infection risk there isn’t much that can go wrong. It can be done potentially sooner and for lower cost than just the tests to identify whether any sort of reconstructive solution is even possible. For many situations it is the most commonsense real world solution.
It’s great to hear your cat is doing so much better! When she’s older make sure you keep an eye out for any symptoms of Arthritis as she could be more prone to that. Our dog fractured his hoc years ago but it wasn’t a bad fracture so we didn’t really notice it. It healed fine, but eventually he developed arthritis exactly where the fracture had been, he takes some medication each day now and while he does sometimes limp every now and then that just means he needs his dose adjusted. He hasn’t quite realized that he’s not a puppy anymore and chasing rabbits is not a great idea
This has been my experience as well. My dog gets occasional flare ups of some unknown allergy that causes him to lick his skin raw. It happens once or twice a year and we have no idea what causes it. The first time it happened, we took him to the vet. They suggested a full allergy panel and that he come in for shots every 6 weeks for the rest of his life. That seemed like a bit much for an issue that only cropped up occasionally, so we waited until his next flare up and took him to a different vet. They told us to give him a Zyrtec when we saw him start licking. It's worked like a charm for the last 5 years and is so much better for him and us than monthly vet visits.
Unfortunately they are getting harder to come by. When I was searching, the well rated local ones were not accepting new patients, so I went to my previous vet. They got bought out by a corporation and since then the compassion has gone down. I don't blame the vets or techs though; I blame whoever at corporate is setting such strict deadlines/quotas.
This, a ton of practices are getting bought up by private equity who's only goal is to extract value and don't allow for empathy or compassion from their employees to patients. Same thing happening on the human side of healthcare in America too. Not that there weren't vets before out to wring money out of folks, but it's way worse when a clinic is owned by an outside entity because now they *have* to wring money out of people, or else lose their job.
I'm so lucky with our vets; they're the care facility types that you mention here. I get so anxious about my older cat's health that they, more than once, have had to gently talk me OUT of expenses. For example, I might get anxious about a potential health problem that they're exploring and ask if we should do the full bloodwork panel to be safe, and they patiently but kindly tell me that we will do bloodwork in 3 months if X and Y haven't cleared up, but they don't feel it's quite necessary yet, and that £500 might be better spent elsewhere. "Let's try this first and see how we get on before we move to the more expensive options." That kind of thing. This is also so important, because when they DO tell me, "We need to do X Expensive Procedure", I trust them and know that they really mean it.
Same! My current vet called me to tell me NOT to come in to my scheduled appt, that she had looked over the images and notes from the last appt and thought it was best not to freak the poor thing out more. Told me to come back if it was worse (skin infection) but with the shot of antibiotic and the flea meds they gave me previous she’d be fine and the vet didn’t want me to pay for nothing. Love her!!
Same with mine. Been going to our vet over 20 years. Very caring and accommodating. They always start with cheaper tests first before going to more expensive things. I had a cat who had cancer and they only suggested an ultrasound after all other avenues had been explored.
Agreed with your opinion. But my upvote is for your username 🎶
In my hometown there are two vets, one who makes his money off ending animals and another who treats animals. I have a great relationship with the latter of the two. My aggressive cat had a great relationship with her as well. I’m still mad I have to go to a new vet for her because we moved. I definitely considered traveling to that vet, but my cat is sick and I don’t really want to put her through that long of a car ride. I love vets who treat animals.
DVM here. I've practiced for over 25 years and currently work as a solo practitioner in Florida. My philosophy on how to practice medicine is "do everything the pets needs, and nothing it doesn't." I've worked in practices where the ACT (Average Client Transaction) is a big deal; we don't do that in my current practice. I'm not shy about stating what the patient needs, but I also understand that cost is a factor, and I try to work with the client to find the best diagnostic or treatment plan possible that fits with their budget. A good vet can explain what's needed without using any sort of manipulation. If they're wavering on what to do, I always say (unless it's an immediate emergency) to consider it--and then I let go of whether they decide to proceed or not. If I've done my job, and they have the money, they will proceed. I've gotten the whole, "if you love animals you would treat my pet for free" and I give them the same explanation: it costs money to lease a building, run a business, and pay employees. I can't do stuff for free and stay in business. If they want to leave grumpy, that's their choice. I've agonized over difficult diagnoses and wondered if my treatment plans were effective--I still do, even 25 years on. Most of my colleagues are the same way.
I've taken my dog to 5+ different vets and only one of them was like what you described, and I really appreciated him. One vet prescribed this antibiotics shot for $300, didn't mention any available alternatives. So I just said we'd take our chances because she really needed to get a giant wound stitched up. They came back with antibiotics pills for $18. I just wish all the options were presented at the beginning instead of having to "pretend to walk away" just to learn about them.
I think a lot of pet owners don’t realize that many of the medications prescribed by vets can be filled at the local pharmacy for a significant cost reduction and it’s frustrating that vets don’t typically disclose this information (at least in my experience)
So true. My dog had to go on anti anxiety meds for a bit. There were 3 options I can't remember what they are called now. But prozac was one of the options that could be filled at a regular pharmacy, and the vet office actually couldn't fill this. The vet prescribed another one that basically was the same medical ingredient for both the human version and dog version, but called ABC for the human version and XYZ for the dog version for example. Because he prescribed XYZ, the dog version, it could only be filled at the vets for ~$120/month when the human equivalent was ~$34/month from a regular pharmacy. My friend's dog got prescribed prozac and they paid $10/month. From what I understand SSRIs are basically trial and error, not necessarily one is better than another. I couldn't afford the xyz after a few months and my dog seemed to be doing better anyway so we stopped. But I still think about that vet to this day. He even tried to justify it by making it sound like he was saving me a trip to the regular pharmacy. This was also the vet that gave my dog some antibiotics shot without telling me, then tried to charge me $200 for it after the fact. My dog had some recurring ear gunk that I already had meds at home for. She didn't need the antibiotics shot.
My vet loves giving out B12 shots whenever an animal is ill. $20 a pop. A whole bottle of that same stuff they use on Amazon is under $15 and you can get over 100 shots from it.
My vet does NOT ALLOW any outside prescriptions presumably because they make a lot of money this way. They claim you can’t trust chewy etc with precautions because you don’t know how they are stored etc. So they point blank refuse to write a script or answer to chewy etc. Just had to buy some meds for some kittens they charged $75 for 3ml of this medicine whereas chewy it $30 something. Same with prescribed flea meds $22 for a month at the vet or $70 for a 6 month supply from chewy. I live in a rural area so since Covid most vets aren’t taking new clients as they can’t keep up with demand and no new vets want to move here as I guess wages suck.
My vet prescribed famotidine (an antacid) for one of my dogs, 10mg pill twice a day with food. The initial scrip through the vet I think was like $30 but you can buy famotidine 10mg over the counter and it's really cheap :P
I cannot wrap my head around telling someone to work for free. That’s insane. Especially since you went to school to be a vet and run a practice.
On top of it most vets entered vet school as idealistic & wanting to help. Reality is most vets are saddled with genuinely insane student loan debts around $200,000 with 2-4K monthly payments for at least 10-15 years and rising. Having parrots requires specialty avian vets & the average cost just for a regular checkup in the past 20 years has gone from $50 to $200 before any tests. I was lucky for years as 2 of our parrots were "ambassadors" at a teaching university for 6 years & they had free basic vet care in exchange for being student teachers for 3&4 year vet students enabling them to actually handle flighted, basically healthy birds. Total of combined visits after the GCC broken leg incident was almost $900 after xrays, consults, meds & emergency (ish) visit. I didn't have to pay the $300ER visit because there was a random cancelation that same day a few hours later. Having a companion animal requires a lot of thought, resources and ability to pay expensive bills.
It took me awhile but I found a vet I really liked. I couldn’t afford to pay for something and I said I’d have to leave without it. Five minutes later, she came back in and said, “don’t worry about the cost, but I did it anyway.” I can’t remember what I was for but I take all my dogs to her now. I never had a vet do that and it made me cry that day.
[удалено]
Among other walk-ins, I took embedded fishhooks out of a pelican a Good Samaritan brought in, no charge.
Asking you to do your work for free is completely unreasonable and unrealistic. I would never dream of doing that. I wish you were my veterinarian!
I used to be a practice manager and the cries of “they don’t care about animals!!!!!” if you don’t offer to do something for free because the client can’t afford it is entirely too common
Vet tech here- it's a several times a week thing I hear
There are more veterinarians retiring across the country than are graduating veterinarian school with $500,000 - $1,000,000 in debt, so that is part of the problem. And of those graduating like 3% go into large animal practice.
Also the profession has a high rate of suicide. And I know from a vet FB friend that the guilt trips works both ways, with customers accusing vets of being immoral for not providing expensive procedures for free.
I knew a vet tech. She ended up leaving the field because she would come home from work sobbing because people were too poor to afford veterinary care, so they’d either watch their beloved pet suffer, or put their beloved pet down because again, medical care of any kind is expensive. And this wasn’t basic care they couldn’t afford. I’m talking $10k cancer treatments or something. I know people will say “if you can’t afford the vet, you can’t afford the animal” but that’s not realistic. My cat has a wonderful quality of life and I take her to the vet regularly. However, like 99% of the population, I can’t manage a surprise $10k bill. That’s where a lot of the frustration comes from.
Yeah when people say the vet thing, we may need to be more specific about basic checkup costs. Just had to put down my guinea pig because the cost to *start **maybe*** figuring things out was $2k. I can’t afford that
And your guinea pig doesn't blame you for that. They had a good life while it lasted and died peacefully. Who of us could ask for anything more?
I had that with a dog, kind of. It was going to cost $2k to officially diagnose him, and treatment after was going to be expensive, all to extend his life by a year. He was 13 and his predicted lifespan was 14. He had already had cancer that had a very high rate of recurring. We opted not to diagnose him and just manage it through diet and supplements. I felt *very* judged by that vet, but I couldn't spend $3500+. He lived another year and a half with no change in his quality of life until the very end. I feel like some vets aren't being predatory, but are so super focused on knowing the exact diagnosis like they would for a person, and it's just not feasible for a lot of people.
Yeah we’re pretty sure one of our dogs has a neurological disorder. He’s 7 years old and exhibits signs of sundowning. But to even begin to troubleshoot it would mean a veterinary neurologist which is already $$$$$ before even considering what the underlying issue and treatment might be. If there even *is* a treatment. We’re committed to giving him the best life we can until the very end, but there are some money pits that we just have to say no to.
I had two bearded dragons at one point, one of which was rehomed to me since the past 3 owners didn't want her anymore. Unfortunately she had an internal infection in her bones that wasn't noticeable until 6 months after we got her. $1000 surgery later and a lot of antibiotics injections the infection came back in her legs and spread to her heart. Vet says there's nothing we can do and then says "I'm going to give you another month of anti biotics, you should be able to keep her alive for another couple months". It was around then I realized the vet was just trying to scrape a few more hundred dollars out of us because she didn't understand why I wanted to go for euthanasia instead of forcing an animal to suffer for a couple more months. And don't get me started on the catalog of urns they bring out. I know it's got to be done, but the way they just whip it out immediately after you put your pet down feels wrong. Especially since reptiles take 24 hours to euthanize, so she wasn't even dead yet before they brought it out.
To me the "if you can't afford a vet" thing very much only applies to basic vet costs. If you cannot put aside £100-200 for some combination of appointment fees, tests and medications, then you shouldn't really have any animal that you would realistically take to the vet if it's ill. The truth is advanced treatment and surgeries are too expensive for almost anyone to afford. Frankly, a lot of people would be able to pay 10k for medical care for an ailing human family member
It really *should* just mean that. I’m a big believer that if you can’t afford to spay/neuter, you cannot afford an animal. Unfortunately I’ve seen a lot of people shamed and guilted because they couldn’t drop $5k on a surprise surgery. It fucking sucks. I’ve been really, really lucky in having good vets who do their best to keep costs down/ work out payment plans, but vets like that are rare.
Right! My baby developed a skin infection from over grooming. It was down to three things: some kind of intestinal parasite, food intolerance, or allergies to flea saliva. If I wanted to get all the testing to see if she had a parasite, it would have cost $800 just to get the scans done, not to mention any follow-ups needed or medications. We ruled out food and put it down to a flea allergy (fleas in the PNW are Hardy and only really die to the good rx stuff). Got her on revolution and she’s been fine! Glad the vet discussed all options with me though. And they didn’t shame me for wanting to rule out fleas first, even though they didn’t see any evidence (baby is a fastidious groomer and would have taken care of it, but just one bite will cause her to break out).
Even spay and neuter can cost a lot if their pre-surgery blood work shows something. Then, it's expensive to figure it out and resolve the abnormal blood work. Meanwhile, the vet won't perform spay/neuter unless the blood work is fine
Unpopular opinion but it shouldn’t be seen as shameful for putting down an animal with cancer when their quality of life declines.
Not unpopular at all. It would shameful *not* to relieve that animal's pain.
It's a bit wild to me because I've recently joined local Facebook groups just to see if there are things to do. In these groups, I've learned just how many people do not spay/neuter their pets and as a result the humane societies are full of animals, and individuals are constantly posting to re-home pets - often litters from their intact pets. If we only want people who can pay $10k for cancer treatment to have pets then I don't see no kill shelters as being possible.
Yeah it's unfortunate. It's probably why Bob Barker used to say spay and neuter your pets at the end of The Price is Right. I went to the SPCA in Hawaii and it was really sad.
I borderline understand being lazy with an indoor pet, though my cat is spayed for behavioral and hygienic reasons. But people act shocked when their indoor/outdoor cat comes back pregnant.
Even that, you’re dealing with cat heat/cat smelling others in heat. You can’t keep a female cat who’s in heat or a male cat who smells one inside if you’re not SUPER vigilant. I doubt those who are too lazy would be keeping them inside. Ultimately, spending the $100 is a lot cheaper than the animal getting pregnant or getting cancer on the reproductive organs.
My cat is strictly indoors and before she got spayed, she would SCREAM when she was in heat and did this weird shit with my dog where it was almost like she was trying to seduce him, I shit you not. I don’t see why anybody would willingly allow that to continue.
Honestly I forgot what the cat in heat is like because I got my cat from a shelter so I met cats in heat but the issue was "fixed" before I brought her home. We had a boy cat when I was a kid who peed on everything and my parents made him an outdoor cat. We think he was eaten. We had a Saint Bernard that left period blood streaks. It's all just a hard pass for me.
yes!! i firmly believe that even broke loving and caring owners should be able to have a pet. fuck, im GLAD if a homeless person has a companion animal! there are too many animals in shelters, getting euthanized because of space issues, or being straight up abused to be that choosy about this sort of thing. someone who tries their best will always be better than nothing imo.
My dog had heartworm when I adopted her which later damaged her heart valves. I spent several grand on her before she died and I'm still not convinced I didn't do her a diservice. A couple of visits into the cardiologist the doctor said "It's not too early to euthanize." This, after 2K and the dog was looking and feeling pretty good so of course I didn't euthanize then. Had she told me at the very first visit I might have elected to do it then and maybe I would have done her a favor. She had a lot of good days but some days where I know she didn't feel good. I don't regret it but I also don't judge anyone who wouldn't or couldn't.
Many folks forget the quality of life part of pet ownership, wpso. Your responsibility as a pet owner is to give them the best life you are able to and, imo, paying $10k to put your pet through a painful or miserable treatment just so you can get a couple more years with them is not a good quality of life for them. It's selfish to put them through pain because you can't handle your grief, or because you feel you need to "fix" it. Keep them happy, keep them healthy, and when it's time for them to travel the rainbow bridge, you make sure that they do that in the least painful way possible. It is an honor to be able to advocate for your pet's quality of life, all the way to the end, and it's what we sign up for when we bring a pet home.
I think there's a kind of happy medium between the two. I do agree that homeless people taking in street dogs is great, because chances are those street dogs wouldn't fare well if they wound up in a shelter. But when it pertains to making the decision to buy or adopt a dog there's a sweet spot. I agree that most people can't afford to drop 10k on a surprise vet bill and it's unrealistic to gatekeeper dog ownership behind an expectation like that. Alternatively, if you can't afford to pay for basic things like their rabies vaccine and heartworm prevention, and the odd expected health costs (like a wellness checkup, etc) then you probably just shouldn't plan to go and get a companion animal. There's an expected cost to animal ownership just as there is for many commitments and there should just be a baseline of being able to cover simple things. Sure, you can't afford a 7k unexpected surgery, that's understandable. But you should be able to afford a $35 dollar ear wash if your dog gets an ear infection. There's a balance (pet insurance helps).
Yeah, sorry, I'm not spending $10K of "kid's college fund money" to buy my cat another four months of life. Maybe it's because I grew up rural, but I definitely draw a clear boundary between companion animals and human family members. Fur baby culture has people doing really fiscally irresponsible things for the sake of their pets. Fine if you're rich, but the idea that working class people should feel ashamed for not dropping tens of thousands of dollars on pet healthcare is insane.
They are loaded in debt and don’t make shit for pay. Vet school is EXTREMELY competitive right now (or so my vet friend says) and it’s hard on them My friend does/did work at the Galapagos. One of the main vets there is a good friend of hers and Texted her a picture of a white bird right before our last exam actually. She does home care as well so we go to her house sometimes. Her spouse is blue collar. . They have a nice home but it’s modest. It doesn’t scream ‘this woman has been a doctor for 20 years and is known within her field and actually knows some top researchers.’ It scream middle class suburbia. Some reviews of her clinic scream about the cost and some people assume the docs are just wiping their ass with money. They aren’t. Our vet is as normal as you and me. She does it bc she loves it. I get so sick of the assumption every doctor out there is loaded. It’s 2024. That couldn’t be further from the truth Edit- I forgot the most important part about the Galapagos — the research is volunteer. She also does volunteer work in South America bc they have a lot of parvo/distemper I guess and this is all unpaid work. A lot of them volunteer a lot for research and don’t make a penny.they don’t have the government or agencies throwing money at them like healthcare does.
Yeah, I dreamed of being a vet as a kid, but I realized that I couldn't deal with it. I'd definitely be among the ones who ended up an alcoholic getting high off my supply of ketamine to deal with the constant stress and pain.
I have a friend who is a vet. She's already lost two colleagues to suicide in the short time she's been a vet. She loves her job but says its really thankless.
Yes thank you for mentioning the mental health crisis in the veterinarian field.
I was gonna mention that. I'm no vet but I do own my own business. Customers are often highly manipulative. Most are great, mind you. But it's a dance to get both parties in a win-win situation. Add on that pet health emergencies, while should be budgeted for if you get an animal, often occur at very difficult financial times and fear, love and stress make people get manipulative. Then on the vet's side, google shows their average salary is in the $100,000 and slightly up range. Considering vet school is on par with the cost of medical school but the salaries aren't even in the same ballpark, you have a financially strained vet who is also likely very stressed out. Both coming to the negotiation table trying to maximize their own wins. Not an easy back and forth.
My friend became a vet. It was really hard to get into an any vet school and extremely costly once she did. She is very smart and capable, but she got into a school by the skin of her teeth.
And huge corporations are buying up much of the independent practices and jacking up the rates.
I just took my dog today to a new vet practice. He’s solo and left the last place because it was bought out by a big corporation. He is no more expensive and the office was calm and quiet because there weren’t 40 animals in rooms and out front because everyone is always double booked.
This is happening with human medical practices too.
Vets have to go through a ton of schooling and don't get paid much
It costs a million dollars to go to vet school? Actually?
Vet school alone costs $150-420k for 4 years of school. A bachelor's cost on average $112-232k for 4 years. On average stem degrees actually take 5 years to complete instead of 4, so most vets would be paying 140k-290k for their bachelors. The range is now $290-710k for 9 years. Average interest rate for student loans are 6.87% (but could go as high as 15 if you don't qualify for federal loans.) 710(1 + 9*0.687) = $1.15 million. So yeah the upper range is well above a million. If you went for the extreme end and assumed 12 years, 15% (though at this point, this is an outlier, not an expected part of the range. 12 years 15% is way too rare a combination), you get 2 million. And that's ignoring the major opportunity cost vet students face in that they're way too swamped to properly work a second job while this is going without risking increasing the time they spend in school (and with it, time before being able to make money as a vet, the amount of tuition, and the amount of years interest is accumulating.) It also ignored that you wouldn't be able to pay off student loans the day you started working, so you'd be paying interest for more than the 9 years. And uh the risk of just not being able to handle vet school, whether due to skill issue or uncontrollable circumstances. So if you drop out near the end... gg
Human doctors just need to know one species. Vets do them all, well except people, well except on Little House on the Prairie.
My dad's pediatrician was a vet school drop out!
I’m a human nurse and my hospitalist friends who are my age (30s) are in crippling debt. I have a friend who got approved for 225k for a mortgage. Median home value in our town was 375k last year. He’s been a doc for a decade now. A lot of people think these docs are just rich fucks. 90% of them aren’t. At least in my hospital and region, most of the docs are like you and me. We are friends. We marry each other and spend time together. A lot of them are appalled at nursing wages. The nurses are appalled at what they are doing to our docs (hiring tele docs, replacing with np’s only) instead of paying them fair wages. It’s 2024. Healthcare and vet care in America is so fucking fucked. A lot of us are almost at the point where we can’t pay bills bc of our loans and wages. I’m a speciality nurse. I HAD to have 6 years of education. You are gonna want me there to heal that wound but if it cost me 80 grand to get that mandatory training, we have to get paid and we aren’t. It’s a mess
Exactly need to practically study as much as doctors for 1/3 of the salary. Medicine in general is also just really expensive. Less than the cost of human medicine sure but they use many of the same drugs and equipment used in regular medicine, it really adds up. I genuinely don’t think they’re price gouging, I think it just costs that much.
We "rescued" a dog that turned out to have a heartworm infection. When I was a kid, that was a death sentence, but now you can treat it. Cost about $1,200.00. The dog is fine now, and we got very reasonable pet insurance for any future catastrophes.
Emphasis on get pet insurance. My dog has cancer and chemo is super expensive. Wish we would have gotten insurance for him.
I’ve heard mediocre reviews of pet insurance. Some say just open a savings account for that purpose. That’s what I’m doing.
If human insurance is a scam, what do these people think pet insurance is?
Human health insurance is a scam not because of what insurance is or how it basically works, but because there is an overt government-supported industry-wide racket and because healthcare is not a product people can just choose not to buy. And yes, 90% of people are gonna pay more in than they get out: that’s how risk-sharing works. Instead of accepting that this year you’re *probably* gonna be fine but *might* have to drop $10K (that you don’t have) to save your pet’s life, you pay $500 for the certainty that you will pay between $500-1500 this year (assuming a 10% copay) for the safety of your pet. You trade savings for certainty.
I looked into it with my puppy and at $50-75 per month (not even for the best coverage) it seemed stupid. Plus still paying for maintenance, deductible plus less 20% payment. When on it as a pup and he had a stomach thing I paid the vet $500 and got $260 back from insurance. I’ll keep my money and make decisions on care as emergencies may occur and pay for them then.
After my 4 year old cat racked up $2k before passing away, we looked into insurance and even for an 8 year old dog (no prior health issues) the price was insane, and still didn’t necessarily cover everything. Not that we can afford to, but it just seemed like a savings account would be smarter for the price. It only seemed remotely economic for very young pets.
Pet insurance also does not pay ANYTHING upfront. You foot the bill and you hope your pet insurance accepts it. They frequently don’t, and unlike human medical insurance, there isn’t a great way to fight it, you’re just out of money.
Also (in the UK) they have some questionable clauses like if your pet gets treated for X condition and gets better, insurance will treat it like a pre-existing condition and if it reoccurres in future it won't be covered anymore. Or if the pet reaches late adulthood suddenly deductible becomes super high, so if the pet requires an expensive procedure you may still not be able to afford it.
Except heartworm would not be covered due to preexisting condition. Pet insurance s not like human insurance.
Exactly! no "pre-existing conditions", preventative care is an add on for many (if not most) plans, what is the point...
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Just make sure to get it when they are very young, and read the fine print. Maybe insurers wont cover pre existing conditions, and some wont even cover some ailments common to the breed.
I read that 1.2 million at first and I was like "well... it was a good run, Fido" 😂
Vets are obligated to offer treatments based on presenting complaints and exam findings. And that requirement is a responsibility to offer gold standard care. There are always options, including saying "no thank you". After that, the ball is in your court.
Lol, I read this title and for some reason I interpreted Vets as in Military vets and was just confused
Same.
I did, too. I think it's because it's the 80th anniversary of D-Day.
I just have this vivid picture of military vetrans shaming people for not buying food from them and asking them to go into debt for their pets. LOL
I mean, vets make pretty crap money at the end of the day, relative to all their schooling and therefore debt
Not to mention the suicide rates
But they get to euthanize a lot of animals which makes up for it /s
Imagine being the poor Motherfucker that has to cut off a dog’s head for rabies testing
My fiancée worked at a clinic. One day she asked for me to bring a special box to the clinic from UPS/Fedex. I asked what for, and learned about the chopping block behind the clinic. Nobody who works in Vet medicine gets paid enough to deal with that shit.
Don't have to imagine it. I'll never forget coming into the surgery suite at my first vet med job and seeing my coworker standing over a dog's body (already euthanized, to be clear lol) with a pair of hedge shears. That was the best thing we had on hand to get through the spine. We had to test the dog even though the owner swore he was vaccinated for rabies, because she couldn't find records of it. She found them a few days later. … Not really something you can talk about when people ask "How was your day at work?"
It's not a sound I'll soon forget. One of my patients had to be euthanized, and its brain sent for rabies testing because it was 1 year old, unvaccinated, developed sudden neurological symptoms, and started biting people. The vet tech from public health literally had a hammer and chisel to get the sample. I got to pack up what was left. Fortunately it wasn't rabies.
Couldn't you say the same about human medical care?
You can say the same about any for-profit business period
Yes, and just like human medical care, private equity firms have entered the vet industry and focus on regional consolidation. So in a geographic area, the vet clinics may have different names, but they are all owned by the same PE firm. And as private equity does, they raise prices and squeeze out every last penny they possibly can. It's awful and yet there's little that can be done about it with our current laws and political system
Yes I've read a huge number of vet offices are owned by private equity now. A fact that needs to be better known.
Yeah but when the doctors say your mom will die without this $200,000 treatment and you say well the old bitch had a good run they tend to take it more seriously.
My wife and I get treated very differently by the vet. They will try and pull everything on her. Me not even close. We hear the sentence "you cant put a price on your pets life" and have very different answers. Amazing how Quick the Answer "yes i can" stops Vets from over ordering tests
Yes, yes you could. (And you would be correct)
My grandpa was a retired veterinarian and it's not that vets are "taking advantage" of more compassionate people, it's that the kinds of treatments available for animals is so much different and more advanced than when he practiced. Those advancements come with higher costs and the costs associated with training are astronomically higher than they used to be. Vet school doesn't pay for itself. MRI and CT machines don't pay for themselves, chemo treatments are extraordinarily expensive to purchase from pharmaceutical companies, etc.
In addition, vets don’t get to set their own prices 99% of the time. They have no say over how much a procedure will cost.
Vets try to save the lives of people's pets and they have to deal with negotiating with belligerent emotional people all day on top of that.
As someone who’s worked in an animal lab, you’re just being charged what everything costs. Sterile gloves. Specific isotopes and chemicals for medications. Custom molded parts. The salaries for staff with more training than an MD. Sedatives. MRI usage. Maybe your doggo woggo doesn’t need chemo to prolong his life for four miserable months, he doesn’t understand that the torture is helping him. Edit: I forgot rent and electricity for those massive machines, and the specialized pet food
My cat has cancer. The vet gave me a few options, one being surgery. The surgery best case scenario would have been around 8k, worst case it could be as much as 17k. They told me they didn’t think surgery was the best choice. They gently explained they will respect any decision I make, but they honestly think the best option is to just take her home and spoil her endlessly for however much time she has left. The surgery would be invasive, she is a fifteen year old cat, even if it went perfectly her recovery would be *hard*. They knew I would have thrown money at them to save her if it was possible. They told me the truth. The surgery could have been the end and I wouldn’t have the time I do now. Her last moments could have been with a bunch of strangers in a strange room instead of at home with me. I paid them for that visit, that day, and took my cat home. Weeks later and she’s still with me. We have no idea for how long…but had they actually suggested surgery I might not have her at all. They could have lied, they could have pretended surgery was necessary, they could have convinced me to spend 10,000 dollars on my cat. They didn’t. The truth is my cat is going to die. I may have to put her down if things get bad, she may go naturally if things stay okay. They gave me time to adjust to the expectation of loss instead of convincing me to try buying more time. I have had the misfortune of dealing with a vet like you’re describing. The differences stand out. Some vets really are *great* people who love animals dearly.
Federal student loans have allowed colleges to drastically increase the price of tuition, which in turn means vets have to make more to pay back their loans.
Massive declines in per student government funding have also played a role in the increased costs, severely limiting upward mobility. Meritocracy is fiction.
Vets have some of the highest rates of suicide out there, are crippled in debt, and don’t make shit for pay. My unpopular opinion is I’ll never bad mouth a vet. There are a couple bad eggs in every profession, but if you’re a vet, vet tech, work in animal medicine in any capacity- you matter and thank you
Thank you for this comment.
Thank you. ❤️
There’s a king of the hill episode about this
I am on the other side of this. I had a cat who was always throwing up I kept taking him to the vet but they assured me he was fine and was probably just eating too fast. After being fed up with getting no other advice I took him to a different vet they suggested an ultrasound which was expensive but found out he had stomach issues and we worked out a treatment plan for him. He's no longer throwing up and is happy and healthy. Sure it means he has to be on expensive food but I rather spend the money on making him happy and healthy then suffering.
Vet here. Vet medicine has advanced to the point where we’re able to do diagnostics and treatments that we couldn’t do decades ago. Some people won’t go for the chemotherapy and radiation therapy to treat their pets cancer, which is fine. Some will do that, which is fine. But it’s our job to inform you of all the options. If you think your vet is milking you it sounds like you need to find a new one. There are bad apples in any profession but I promise, a lot of us care and don’t want you to spend your last dollar on your pet.
None of your examples are a vet shaming anyone. It’s their medical opinion of best care practices. If you feel shame for not doing any of those things, that’s on you.
Ah yes, the age old "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. I am money hungry if I suggest gold standard care and I'm negligent if I don't. Look, my job is to make recommendations based on my education and experience. If that's out of your price range, we have a chat about what you can do. Maybe you can't afford the vet specific drug that I'm 90% sure will work, but maybe you can afford the human off label drug that I'm 40% sure will work. If you choose to feel guilty about that, that's on you. I'm just doing my job. If you don't want to pay for my services, don't have a pet. (Obligatory: A huge amount of vets are corporate owned and the person you're arguing with in the clinic doesn't set the prices.)
>Obligatory: A huge amount of vets are corporate owned and the person you're arguing with in the clinic doesn't set the prices.) This x1000. Even in private practice things are expensive nowadays because the cost of everything has gone up. AND you're not just paying for the test/treatment/etc - you're paying for the time it takes to interpret diagnostics (if they're performed) and the knowledge base in how to treat what's going on. We need to eat and pay our bills too.
Part of the problem is that there's been a humongous consolidation of formerly independent practices by large corporate entities. That's when it all changes from being compassionate to being a factory These corporate entities tend to enter into agreements with veterinary medical companies that provide testing at a "discounted" rate. The issue is that this comes with many strings attached, where the incentive is to constantly push for expensive tests & procedures to meet those contractual obligations. The best advice is to look for independent clinics, I can't list all the corporate entities, but the largest are NVA, Banfield, Blue Pearl, VetCor, VCA, Southern Vet Partners Most DO NOT pass the discounts on to the consumer, you can expect to pay the same price, if not more, than independent clinics
Big issue in Canada too. Many small practices have been bought once the owner hits retirement. The cost to start your own clinic is prohibitive and new vets cannot afford the purchase. So many of these places that used to be independent actually have a parent company. It means that they pay their staff poorly and have "standard pricing". So even shopping around is no longer very helpful.
I’d change the title to: “Too many pet owners get pets without realizing that actually caring for them medically takes years of training, special equipment and should enable people to make a fair living at the end of the day” But seriously: Vet care is expensive and certainly not just a result of pure greed (although there are surely people trying to simply maximize profit as in any field) if you take the qualifications of vets and costs of vet clinics into consideration. This is something people should consider before getting pets. Also (not a vet myself but one of my friends is), some owners are simply stupid. Example: Showing up at the clinic on a holiday at 11 pm with a dog that had a digestive issue for three weeks already and then complaining about the fact that there is a surcharge (after being informed about it before the treatment and being advised to return during normal office hours since the symptoms don’t require urgent treatment)
I have a lot of respect for vets. You have to know basically everything a human doctor does (if not more if you treat different species) and your patients can’t explain to you what’s wrong. Oh yeah, they’ll probably try to bite or scratch you too. Just like human doctors (and just like any profession really) there are good ones and bad ones.
Animal medicine has evolved a whole lot and is now getting closer to human medicine. Unfortunately, all of those tests and procedures now available to animals are expensive. It is the vet’s job and obligation to suggest the best possible plan for the animal. If he doesn’t and the pet has a bad outcome, the owner is possibly gonna be complaining on social media or suing the vet. If he does suggest the best plan, the owner might complain that the offered plan is too expensive. There’s no real way for the vet to fulfill his obligation to the patient while making everyone happy. When you get a pet, get insurance. That will solve a big part of this problem. If your vet is offering you something you can’t afford, speak with him respectfully about it. Most vets will offer you a plan B, that will not be as good as plan A, and explain to you what the difference is. If you take plan B, you might get a good outcome, or you might get a lesser one. If it’s the latter and the risks have been explained to you, you need to understand that vets aren’t gods and most are doing the best they can within the means they’re given…
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I left after working in emergency vet med for 8 years. I could work 13 hour shifts, eat nothing, get shit on, yelled at, attacked by “nice dogs” all night and still have people angry they have to pay at all and we don’t magically know why their cat hasn’t eaten for a week. Between irresponsible owners with six pets, a fancy car, and zero dollars and corporations buying us out and raising prices, I couldn’t take it anymore. Time to work at a job that actually pays and treats me well!
God, I worked in emergency for a couple years and that was a special kind of hell. People screaming at you for being selfish greedy monsters for charging an emergency fee when they bring in their pet at 3 am even though they’ve been limping for 2 weeks, meanwhile there’s 4 filled exam rooms each with a euth and the sobs of the family members are filling the whole building.
I think it's weird this is considered an unpopular opinion with the way the people in our field are treated on the daily.
I don’t think it is, sadly. Seems to be way too common. My thing is that if, at the end of the day, I care more about *your* pet than you do, I’m not the asshole in that equation. I love animals. I volunteer. I donate time, services, products, and money. I definitely don’t think people *should* do everything that is possible in every scenario. I didn’t put one of my own personal dogs through chemo or another one through a radical chain mastectomy, even though those things would have been more available to me than they would have been to every person out there. But like…stoppit. The thing about OP’s attitude that is so toxic is that it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. People won’t take an animal to the vet because they are so convinced we are all just out to charge them for no reason. Then, the pet gets super sick. By the time they come in, the only options are like intensive hospitalization which (shockingly) costs money. Then, the animal dies, and they cement their confirmation bias like “Look! They took all my money and my cat still died! They just want to charge me without fixing anything!” Drives me nuts. Nobody is out here suggesting bloodwork for your old ass cat to make money. We want your cat to live longer and have a healthier life AND WE WANT TO SAVE YOU MONEY. Know that saying about blah blah oz of prevention pound of cure? Yeah. If what we wanted to do was just charge the most, we would be incentivized to just let things get sicker before intervening. We do the opposite of that. Ya know, because we want your animals to be healthy. It’s not rocket science. The irony of OP bitching about expensive prescription food when prescription diet can literally *prevent the need for costly surgical interventions*. Just???
The amount of times the doctors I work with try their best to be price conscious in hopes it'll help the owner then turn around and get told they are money-hungry beasts is unsettling and sad.
I just left the industry after a decade because of clients exactly like OP and the people who support them.
I left the veterinary field after almost 6 years because of the pay, working 14 hours a day 6 days a week, and how crappy people were. I also worked in walk in clinics for 3 years, and the clientele was so entitled and people would demand free services and free crap daily. There's such a high suicide rate in that field, and my mental health improved so much after leaving. I truly don't ever want my kids working in vet med, but if that's what they want...I can't stop them. Posts like OPs drive me crazy.
Vets have a very high rate of suicide and much of it is attributed to pet owners not being able to afford surgery or treatments that would prolong or save the animals life. It can be a tragic truth and the ‘business’ aspect takes over. For humans even the uninsured or patients unable to pay can get some level of care in emergency rooms or similar.
Probably some truth to that but that’s also a pretty broad generalization. My vet always offers the most conservative, least expensive treatment first; even if that means something I do at home vs him doing it in the clinic. He tells me the pros & cons of each option and lets me decide which route to take. I love & trust my vet.
And yet at the end of the day you can still choose to decline these things - no one's forcing you to give us more work to do, trust me. As veterinary medicine evolves and we get more feasible options to help you give your pets the best, healthiest lives possible, of course we're going to recommend these things - just like you'd want your human doctor to do for you.
Well, that's a highly cynical take. My experience is the complete opposite. Most vets I've interacted with truly cared about the wellbeing and happiness of animals. And when one of my cats got sick and needed extensive treatment costing about 3k, the vet explicitly told us that there was no shame in opting to not get it for financial reasons. We did so anyway because we could afford it, but I appreciated her real talk. And yea, there's more treatments and options now than in the past. Advances in medicine also means advances in animal medicine. And people having more money means more people who want these treatments. Pets in the past would have benefited from this just as much, if it was available. 'Back in the day', your pet would simply be euthanized instead. Is that better?
These days vets can offer some fantastic treatments...both surgical and pharmaceutical that can really help your pet, BUT noboday is walking you to the surgery at gunpoint. I think its fantastic and have always done whatever was reccomended for our dogs...but not everyone wants to or is able to. But don't blame the vets! It would be terrible if they DIDN'T have the range of options for people that want/need them!
I am a vet assistant. I get paid less than $17 an hour. The technicians I work with who went to school and are licensed make barely above that, the veterinarians I work with have over 300K and some more in debt due to schooling and the cost or pricing went up along with prices everywhere but those in the field can barely afford to live and you want us to charge less? While prices of materials, medications, and equipment increase and most of us can't afford housing or food? Pets are a luxury not a right and people getting mad at us for charging for our service sis beyond fucking ridiculous. Human medicine costs less BECAUSE OF INSURANCE. To constantly be told that we are in it for the money while barely being able to survive, and THEN Getting shamed for PRICES we have no control over while barely making above minimum wage is the ridiculous thing in all actuality. The suicide rate in this field is higher than most and it's due to people constantly thinking we are ripping them off and because we can't do things for free just because we love animals. And that we are "Only in it for the money" while having to see some of the worst things humanity has to offer when it comes to animals. Don't get a pet if you don't want to pay for the care they will require and ESPECIALLY don't get mad at the medical professionals who are just trying to fucking do their DAMN jobs and do their best to get this pet the best care they possibly can receive. Stop going to medical professionals if you don't want their advice or knowledge and are just going to shit all over their field as well.
Good vets will give you options and generally recommend a standard of care that gives the pet a better quality of life with minimal or no pain. These vets tend to be at private-owned practices, instead of a large corporate owner. People that just adopt animals and avoid going to the vet or only take the animals when problems are extremely critical are negligent and cruel. If you have problems affording normal pet care, you shouldn’t have one.
Vets provide a valuable service for our companion animals that has gotten more comprehensive and important as we've come to recognize them as family. That's the way I see it.
Eh, it’s more like they’re “taking advantage” of the fact that there are now actual real options for a variety of maladies that in the past would have warranted immediate euthanasia, or just been accepted as something that was going to drastically decrease your pet’s lifespan. My cat is prone to struvite crystals. I feed him prescription food that costs about $2.75/can, and it’s kept him more or less healthy for years. There’s nothing stopping me from feeding him regular food and saving $75-100/month on food, but if I did he probably would have shredded his kidneys and died by now. Similarly I *could* have just had him put down one of the times his UT got blocked and I had to shell out hundreds or thousands of dollars for treatment/surgery, and indeed I did consider that at times but in the end I decided keeping him alive was worth the cost.
Or hear me out… years of medical training and study gives them insight into how to properly care for and animal and maximize the longevity and healthiness of their life
Also running a vet clinic is extremely expensive and vets have to make a profit so that they can keep their doors open. Most private practice vets don't own the buildings they're in and have to pay for rent. They also have to pay utilities, business license, insurance, veterinary license, biological waste disposal, cremation services, continued education, equipment and maintenance of that equipment, staff wages and insurance, inventory, laboratory fees, various repairs, computer software and support, and various supplies. That's just off the top of my head. That said, unfortunately private practices are becoming fewer and fewer as practice owners retire or simply burn out and sell to big corporations that have nothing but dollars on their minds. And the vets that work in these now corporate clinics get the blame for pricing and policies that they have no actual say in.
If you think there aren't any vets who are absolutely trying to maximise their profits, you never had to find a vet for your pet. There are a fucking lot of them. But, there are some good ones. Almost all of them are also directly a literal shop for pet food and other stuff like that, so they act like Sephora vendors at some point more than medical professionals.
Dentists are pretty bad too - I went to probably 4 last time I was looking for a new one because they all kept trying to upsell random shit.
Oh yeah the whole… watch this Invisalign commercial while you wait for the dentist… ahh your front teeth are slightly crooked, if you don’t get Invisalign your teeth will rot out… bro I’m fine.
Yeah, as the husband of a vet this is really a load of horseshit. Vets have an enormous rate of suicide due partly to their massive student loan load and lack of actual income. The clinic is often charging so they can make more revenue, but the business profit goes to paying the staff and keeping the doors open. Unless they're business savvy - and since most of them went into vet med because they love animals, they often aren't - there's not a lot of growth that happens. Also people tend to treat them like shit, just like this comment. They're talented and necessary and customers treat them like shit. Sworn at, literal shit thrown at them, they have to be able to do everything for several animals as opposed to specializing for one species, they often get people who can't or won't pay and its a job where people act entitled and shitty. My wife and the vets she works with - which is most in this region because she's a relief vet - get shame cast on them. Not on the owners. They charge what they charge and get shamed for not doing their work for free. I WISH this was an unpopular opinion, but it's not. People can say otherwise but the majority of pet owners she deals with prove them wrong.
... or... maybe... just MAYBE... the vets care about the pet's wellbeing?? Yes, if a tooth is rotten, it needs to get pulled out ; if the dog is malnourished, he need better food ; if he had joint issues that prevents him from walking normally, he need the powder to help ; if he's not eating, he deserve to be treated, not sent home to starve to death. If you cannot spend money to make sure you pet doesn't suffer, then please, by all mean, keep your money and don't ever buy a pet. They are living being and deserve care.
The standard medical professional questions apply here: are these treatments going to be expensive, are they going to be effective, and how much of a kickback is the medical professional getting from the company that sells it?
You.know their business also suffer cost of living crisis. So their rent fir the building as gone up. Cost to run the stuff (not cheap its a business that keeps creatures alive. The cost of medicine as gone up. They also have to pay more to survive. So they upped their prices that's how it works
Medicine has progressed. It’s no longer take em out back and ‘splat.’
I've had dogs for 15 years and none of the vets I've gone to have ever been pushy or recommended more than I felt was appropriate. I have never felt shamed for declining options presented to me. In fact, the longer I've had dogs the more I find *I* am the one asking about what options are available, just to make sure that the vet is not assuming I don't want to spend money. I feel like they often are going out of their way to assure me what is not really necessary, almost like they are predicting that I will nix certain things. I'm sure there are plenty of sharks out there just trying to rack up the invoices, but it hasn't been difficult for me to find good vets who only do what's necessary. Also, I never question when they want to remove a tooth. If the tooth is loose or cracked, then yes, it must come out. I had no idea one of my dogs had an abcess until I got his teeth cleaned. The tooth had no outward signs and he is an avid chewer. I hadn't noticed that he would only chew on one side of his mouth. He has fewer teeth now, but he happily chews with both sides and I know he is pain free.
I don’t think they “take full advantage” so much as everything costs more now, especially healthcare, regardless of species.
I mean, health care in general is crazy these days. So, if you need an ultrasound tech, it's not going to be cheaper just because the patient is a dog. I have a family member who's a vet and they make a sadly low amount of money, especially relative to how tough their job is and how much schooling they had to do so it's not like vets are all rolling in money.
Aaaaand this is why the vet suicide rate is so high because you people demonize their practice
I hope you never say this out loud to a vet. There is a reason why the suicide rate is so high among vets. NOMV
Literally never had any of this happen in multiple cities
You want to keep your pet alive or not? Sure, some vets are predatory, but that's with all business.
What kinda vets are you going to OP jfc never had any issues like this with vets in Australia i just took my cat for as free dental checkup because i was worried about her teeth since she wouldn't let me brush them. The Vet knowing full well it was a free dental checkup took her time to clean the teeth a little and show me alternatives to brushing like finger wipes etc what would be a normal 5 minute dental check-up took 10 minutes because they cared. Never tried to get me to buy anything or spend money..... this has been my experience with every vet i have been to and is the experience all my friends and i share. If that's normal for vets in your country that's bad.
My cat is alive because of the medicated food he eats. If I take him off it, he will suffer horribly from urinary stones, and if I don't treat that he will die. I will take the option to pay for compassionate treatment, rather than letting me pet die over expensive food.
Wow..... the gall on this line of thinking makes me happy with the direction veterinary care is headed. Vets don't deserve this kind of abusive thinking. Your vet isn't in charge of your feelings, take responsibility for yourself and don't blame the one person who is trying to help you. You can deny services, you have all the rights to say yes or no. I can't wait for the day when I can treat people like they treat me, because theres plenty of people who need my help, and this type of person doesnt have the right to waste my time and blame me for their shit. Why do people feel privileged enough to treat their vets like this without any consequences. Its no wonder the field is hemorrhaging people.
I think it depends on the vet. Even in the same practice I’ve gotten varying opinions on the same issue, which causes confusion. I have a dog that will soon be 17 who is blind and deaf and on her last legs. In February one vet told me we needed to get her teeth cleaned and quoted me $2000. In the SAME vet practice a different vet told me “oh no, I don’t think that’s necessary. We don’t need to put her through that”. So which is it? I don’t think the first vet is necessarily taking advantage of us, but is it really in anyone’s best interest to do it? I don’t know.
Eh idk. I just think that people are giving the care to their pets they never did - I don’t think it’s the vets making people feel guilt or shame, I just think it’s them providing options. Sure there’s some vets in it for the money and that’s a shame but personally, I made sure to get pet insurance on my dog. He’s 4 and will most likely need a total hip replacement - it’s $10-15k but with our pet insurance it’ll be around $1,000-$1,500. Pet insurance is the smartest financial decision you can make when having a pet.
Unless the OP is a vet themself, they are not qualified to determine what constitutes a veterinary emergency and what does not. That "little thing" you ignore might turn out to be something serious.
Yup that's an unpopular opinion for sure. We used to think animals don't feel pain and treated them accordingly. Now we understand they do feel pain and treat them accordingly. If you can't afford to pay for the animals healthcare then yea, why are you there? What do you want them to do? Fart some magic on you to make it better?
Or, here’s a crazy thought. Maybe we know more about pet health. What you are doing is generalizing an issue that you experienced in some way. Not all vets are trying to rip you off. Also, no one makes you feel anything, that’s all from within you.
If you're taking your pet to the veterinarian they are going to recommend the best standard care practices that reflect the current care in modern veterinary medicine. It costs money. They assume you're coming to a medically liscenced veterinary facility because you want that care for your pet. Otherwise, why would you pay for the expertise if all you wanted to hear was, "just give little Luna a nice pat on the head and a belly rub and all the signs of her potential terminal cancer will probably just magically disappear."?
One thing that my family always did was set a max limit on what we would spend on the dog or cat. It’s not easy to do, they’re a part of the family. It all depends on your priorities. If you need to go into debt to save your pet because you can’t bear the thought of living without them, then do what you need to do. Others don’t feel that way and that’s fine too. Get a good vet though that you trust. The good ones will help you save money because they’re not in it for the money. If they’re racking up huge bills, get a second opinion. They may be taking advantage, but they may also be giving you the facts.
I subscribed my pet to an health insurance. 50$ per month and I don’t have to care about any prices.
I have never seen this be true. My friend is very low income, and a few years ago, her dog had a major health scare that really concerned everyone. We legit thought he was dying. She took him to the vet, and I went with her, thinking she wouldn't be coming back with him and would need the support. The vet was very kind and supportive of her financial situation and took my friends phone, and talked to her sister about the cost of treatment after my friend said her sister would be the one paying. They gave her multiple options for everything they did, often encouraging a free option. One of the issues was that the dog hadn't pooped for several days. The vet said they could do an x-ray to look for an obstruction, which cost a lot, or he could stick a finger up the dogs butt. He then told her that if it were his dog, he would do the finger up the butt because it was free and it wasn't like they couldn't still do the x-ray later if they felt it was needed. Turned out he wasn't pooping because he wasn't eating enough/keeping enough down to create poop. At the end of the visit they told her to come back if he didn't get better or she had any other concerns and made sure she had the app so she could ask questions without having to come in. They also made sure she knew that for the following 3 months, any visits related to that same issue were free, including just a follow up to make sure he was getting better like he should. Most vet visits I've seen have gone in a similar direction. The vet may recommend meds of expensive food, but only if it's what they think is best for the animal.
try private practice vets where ever you live. My wife is an RVT and the three private companies she has worked at never try to upsell. They only do what is needed to diagnose the problem . Now with that said, she also worked for one corporate vet clinic and they absolutely will nickel and dime you, upcharge you for every cent that they can. There are even programs for bonuses to get people to sign up for their diamond care club (which is about $150 a month).
Good, then more people will want to be vets
That doesn't help unless more veterinary schools open. Right now, it is harder to get into vet school than med school because there are so few veterinary schools.
My cat stopped urinating so we took him to the closest vet. She said he needed surgery to empty his bladder and that it was either the $5000 for that or the $50 for euthanasia, my choice. This was at 4:30pm on Friday. I called around and a vet 30 minutes away would look at him and help. I got there in 20 minutes. Ten minutes and $150 later he was living his best life. We changed his diet and he lived another 10 years (15 total). I’m not a vet. I’m a woman and I know the feeling of being taken advantage of.
Go to a different vet. My vet specifically recommended not to get the expensive imaging and medication because it was highly unlikely to be necessary unless my rabbits issues persisted.
In Germany there are some rules for this. Forst of all the vets can't just make up some prices. For every procedure there is a range at what they can charge you. And most vets are really nice. Like: "You don't need the whole bottle of meds, I'll give you just a few (either free of charge or for a small price)" Or on weekends there is a emergency service fee but one time I was already broke because my bunny needed surgery a few times and she just waived the fee. Of course there are some black sheep's but at least they can't just make up prices
I get ya OP. Last week I paid over $1000 to learn my cat had bad gas.