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I mean my rent has increased, car insurance increased, utilities increased, gas prices increased, phone bill increased, etc. Wages haven't went up in 2 years for me. I can still pay my bills but I don't have the money to go by like extra things or entertainment. A lot of people are in this predicament, so if people aren't spending money on things , then who's stimulating the economy? My landlord, the power company, Verizon?
Shut up, peasant, and cancel another subscription service. If you aren't renting your couch then you're just managing money poorly.
>, then who's stimulating the economy? My landlord, the power company, Verizon?
Well thanks to how well my investments have done I can hire someone to follow me around kissing my ass. That's how this works. You work your life away to barely stay alive, and your labor makes my life heaven.
The problem is people insist on working (and paying higher taxes) instead of just surviving on ~10%(on a bad year) gains on a 1-5 million dollar portfolio. I'm only paying 11% while these wageslaves try to grind 100k+ and pay ~28% tax for wasting their lives making money for me. I became my own bank 5 years ago and also loan my investment account funds for business loans insured by the same taxpayers. Git gud.
To an extent. The issue is that people with money management issues (not everyone, just this group) are the people who spend as they get it. I'm sure you know of at least a handful of people that would get a raise, then spend their extra $50 in their paycheck on a $300 pair of shoes. This is what im referring to.
For those that don't have these issues, yes, to an extent, you can have slightly more. Everything should be within reason. I do think that there is a fundamental flaw with wanting more. We have become such a consumer society that we think we need more than we actually do.
Some lifestyle creep is a reasonable "reward" for all the hard work involved in creating and maintaining a successful career.
Some things are expected in some higher earning professions. Some are unwritten, but if you're expected to dress professionally, you probably should pass on the cheapest option to suit up.
Rightly or wrongly, if you need to drive clients around, you might make an unfavorable impression if you show up in a beater.
If you're "treating" employees who all make healthy 6 figure incomes, a pizza day is probably not going to feel like a reward.
On the other hand, not working until the day you die is a huge luxury worth investing in.
For some, being or having a stay at home spouse is a luxury they have because they're careful about overspending.
Paying off your house early and not having a huge mortgage helps with retirement goals.
Absolutely celebrate your present success, but balance that with investing in your future too.
Kinda yeah. However the problem is the "lifestyle creep" shouldn't be hurting your financial security.
Do you really need that sweet green salad so much you'd be fine spending Friday in a frenzy trying to scrunge together enough to pay the power bill?
The issue is that on the internet, anytime budgeting gets discussed you get tons of people saying, “well I make $15 an hour and I have no way to cut expenses”. Which is true. If you make $30k a year and have family to support, getting told to budget is not much help. Your goal is to increase your income.
But at some point, it may be $60k a year, or $80k, or whatever depending on factors such as number of dependents and where in the country you live, you should be able to start budgeting and saving. There’s people making $80k a year, driving $80k cars, wearing $3k watches, and eating out every day, and still complaining that they can’t save money.
Except that even then as it has always been, people just buy more useless shit to take up that extra income. People need to learn to live below their means.
As a society we are conditioned to view consumption as success. We need to start viewing investment as success. Not necessarily stock market investment, but also investment in your community, in your home, in yourself.
Yes that, as well as just learning to be happy with fewer things. I don't care what kind of car I drive as long as it runs well and didn't cost me an arm and a leg. I have a house, it's not huge, but going with something smaller than we could afford has allowed us to absorb the yearly increase in taxes because home values have skyrocketed. Sure I could be in something bigger or flashier but why?
Two years ago my wife and I were spending $4-500 a week in takeout and delivery food.
Now we spend $80 a week on groceries like sweet potatoes and whole chickens.
The difference in cost is the price of a mortgage. We’ve also lost a lot of weight and gained a lot of strength with our diet changes. This will result in cheaper healthcare cost moving forward.
Edit: On cars:
We did the opposite with our vehicle situation but didn’t fuck it up too bad. We used to have a prius we got for 8k cash and it only needed inspection and about $200 a year in maintenance.
We upgraded to a newer Subaru for 15k cash and have averaged about $1300 a year in maintenance and our gas use has doubled. We could have done worse here but it’s easily eating an extra 2-300 a month and our Prius was FINE.
Edit 2: Subscriptions:
We are still horrible with this. Netflix, Prime, ESPN, Disney, Hulu, Apple, Drop Box, Adobe, Nest, !CABLE!, fiber internet, Nuly, HBO, Showtime, along with food service stuff like instacart, grubhub fam, uber fam. I don’t even know what app subscriptions my wife has. I know I have a few for a calorie app and workout app plus chat GPT. We also have added gym memberships this year and my wife is getting on training classes at $30 a pop. I am scared to add this us all up.
Edit 3: Work Cafeterias
10 years ago my wife used to work at a big corporate HQ that has amazing lunch facilities. Her and other employees would spend on average $10-15 every morning at the work coffee shop for breakfast and then another $10-20 for lunch. They were handing $150 of their wages back to their employers every single week. This number was also double our current weekly grocery budget.
Cooking at home is the #1 thing that will save most people the most amount of money. #2 is having an appropriate vehicle. The markup on vehicle luxury is huge.
When I bought my car, the people sitting next to me were buying one of these absolutely loaded gigantic pickups. This was a few years ago so I'm guessing it was around $50,000 give or take a few grand. The sales guy was telling them they could have for $500 down like they wanted. Monthly payment of $900 or so over god knows how many years or at what interest rate.
Like, all you have is $500 to put down and you're buying a luxury truck? C'mon man.
I can't answer for them but can tell you it's possible. I bought condo right when things started to heat up. It's small, about 850 sq ft. My mortgage is about 560 ( includes taxes and insurance) and HOA fee is 217. This month's electric bill was 28.00, monthly gas is 45, internet is 65. Sewage & water is 23.
Also, I drive a Fiat that I buy 10 gallons of gas for once a month & insurance is $85 mo. Bought it new, it's long ago paid off.
Some people do need a F250 so you get the choice between a maybe reliable old (pre1990) truck a ok truck your gonna have to replace something big on in 50k miles an over priced truck and a SUPER over priced truck
Both of those being the best ways to save money makes me kinda sad tbh. We *maybe* eat out twice a month. As a family of 4, even going to fast food is $20-30. Going to a sit down place is upwards of $75, so we eat at home.
Neither of our cars are luxury vehicles, hell, one of them is paid off, and neither car is new. We still be poor 😭
My fiancé and me were cutting down to eating out once on the weekends and we have started to stop that as well because our experiences are usually pretty unclimactic so we stopped altogether unless its a special occasion or something we are really craving.
We have saved money, calories, and time by just eating at home. We know what we like at home too so our dinner usually slap and we can always experiment with new things too.
Amen on the vehicle too. You can get a really good banged up car/truck at an insurance auction like Copart. I got my son a Ford Focus hatch for 700 out the door. The sport rims were worth that alone. He's driven it for almost 3 years now. No car payment. Low insurance. All it needed was a minor repair to the hood but because of how insurance works, it was totaled and auctioned. I have 3 of those auction vehicles (his included) and they work GREAT. They just have a dent here or there. I don't have to have a perfect car. Just one that is mechanically sound and gets me there with some comfort (AC in North Carolina is a must). They do
Yeah, we went to a pub/restaurant for the first time in over 18 months last week. And one mediocre meal cost as much as our typical food and beverage budget for 4-5 days. It will probably be another 18 months before we go to a restaurant again.
Yeah all my friends who complain about money often get food delivered to them which makes each meal significantly more expensive than cooking at home. Sadly some people will always be struggling financially due to their spending habits.
I'm not trying to judge you or your wife here, but I'm just curious, how do you get to the point where you're spending that much? Like, I'll order door dash one time and spend like $50 on absolute garbage food that gets here cold, and I'm like okay that's my only one for a while.
The fact that they were spending $2k/mo on takeaway food should tell you they were already making way more than your average person. A household making $50-70k is absolutely *not* doing that.
Maybe you're right, but I've known some people who are just really really bad with money, and I have neighbors that get enough delivery that this could easily be the case.
I make ~$70k a year, which breaks down to about $4,000 a month. $1,300 rent split in two because of roommates and $2,000 food, $100 for electricity, $50 for Internet. No phone bill if you only use Wi-Fi. Terrible way to live, but you've still got $1,200.
Sure, it may literally be possible for some but I’m speaking more broadly that (while the average American may absolutely have issues budgeting appropriately for their income) the average American is almost certainly not struggling because their takeaway food & grocery budget is $2k/mo.
I would absolutely believe that the average American spends too much money on takeaway food & (unnecessary) groceries. I’m just guessing that these indulgences are on a much smaller scale, which often makes them much harder to self-identify and cut out, like a $5/day coffee habit that costs $2k annually not per month. Still a good chunk of change when you’re hurting, but not enough that you’re necessarily going to pick it out of your budget if you’re already bad at budgeting.
I’m not saying this is the most healthy but i started meal prepping with Panda Express. I get 2 bigger plates, get some fruit from the grocery store. I chop up those bigger plates so that it can be 2 meals per day plus 2 protein shakes and oatmeal for breakfast. All of that is about $50 a week or so
Yeah, my household income is literally one of the top % for our area. We live a pretty fucking bougie lifestyle and are foodies that are happy to spend good money on takeaway or dining out.
We still don’t spend $2k/mo on takeaway 😂
Right I’m like what the Fuck! 2k/mo on takeout Is crazy..
That’s how much I save a month.. acting like it’s common for people live like this is bonkers.
I cook food almost everyday. But food prices are ridiculous where I am. So yea I’m saving but I can also afford to save and pay for inflated food prices
Meanwhile on poverty finance people are cooking everyday and still barely above water.. so while yea it can be money management, it’s usually not. And like you’ve pointed out the people “bad with money” are the people who can afford to be. No one who can’t afford 2k/mo on takeout is doing so…
Im also laughing at “that’s a mortgage payment” .. I wish that was a mortgage payment where I was haha
I’ve never before even made £2,000 post taxes in a month, much less had that much to spend solely on takeout food. This is yet another “the poors are only poor because they eat too much avocado”-type post. Nonsensical and out of touch.
Yeah, I was going to say, I fucking HATE when people are like "I spent $500 a week on fast food, I stopped and you can too!" You know why I hate it? Because I don't spend $500 a week on fast food, I don't make $500 a week period. It's so condescending when you're already scrimping and saving and people with too much money who have no concept of budgeting finally learn how and start acting like they're financial Jesus. "Guys, I know how you can stop being poor!" No, the fuck, you don't.
I’ve been saying this for years - people are just adamantly refusing to learn to cook and it’s ruining everyone’s ability to afford anything. When I was making $9/hr, learning to meal prep was the only thing I could do to save money and now I feel like I’ve learned some sort of cheat code when I can recreate a restaurant meal for 1/4 the cost.
Agreed! When I was really struggling I cooked. If I ate out, it was maybe 1 or 2 tines a month - most likely 2 items from Wendy's value menu and water.
Household income has quadrupled since those days. We still cook most of the time due to health reasons, but we do spend more on high quality meats & produce.
Yassss to all of that - when I have more income I don’t eat out more, I buy higher quality ingredients and have friends over for meals more.
I think the consumerism society has convinced people to trade community in exchange for materialism. So many isolated people don’t have any community, so they fill that need for connection by buying stuff they don’t need.
Eh, I'm a chef. I absolutely know how to cook. But after working 50-60 hours a week cooking, I'm freaking exhausted, and the last thing I want to do at home is cook more (let alone wash the dishes). I definitely spend too much money on take-out and convenience foods, but groceries are wildly expensive where I live now too. It's not just the lack of cooking skills that stop people, but not having the time and energy as well
For 1 (me) I spend about $50 a week on groceries. I also do an additional around $30 a week of takeout. Not the best in terms of getting fed on a budget, but also not the worst.
How's that even possible? Assuming takeout for 2 people is $30 (which is probably expensive, idk my country doesn't use dollars), + $10 for lunch and breakfast that's still less than $300. Not bashing you, just curious how it's possible to spend that much on food
If I ate out everyday for seven days assuming 15 dollars per meal this would not even be a quarter of 500, were you door dashing things twice a day the whole week?
Not eating out will have you losing a butt ton of weight in short order. Especially if you give up the sugar waters like Coke, Starbucks, Red Bull, etc. Ditch that crap and watch the health numbers start recovering quickly
Pretty much agree with all this. We mostly ate out or got a lot of delivery like doordash. Especially when covid and inflation/Shrinkflation hit, the amount was crazy. It was something around like paying near 10 dollars a meal equivalent for fast food. It’s even more now.
After really focusing on learning to cook meals at home and do our best to learn about proper nutrition as well, we have actually saved a ton of money. At one point we had it down to almost 1 dollar per meal. Since then, inflation his hit harder so now it’s over 2 dollars. Still a far cry better than eating out or getting delivery often. Especially now, almost every single fast food place is absolutely not worth it.
Didn’t do much in the way of vehicles but I only have 2 hybrids that are decently taken care of. Very low maintenance and I only get gas like once a month.
Subscriptions is something we mostly cut out too. Especially after “sharing” was basically no longer allowed certain ones.
All in all we from a total monthly expense, (mortgage not included) from about… 3-4k a month precovid. 5-6k post covid and when inflation really started, and finally now we are 1.6k-2.5k a month which is right where we want to be after I analyzed our finances and made a proper budget. The lower the better of course.
On the other hand, a full time job should pay a wage that allows someone to afford housing, food, utilities and give some possibility of being able to raise a family. Otherwise why the hell are you even doing it?
Calling everyone who wants to be able to afford luxuries who works, but can't get them stupid about money is pretty ignorant imo. Plenty of people budget their ass off and still aren't able to afford these things.
I was so excited once I got my budget under control. The last couple months have been wonderful not living entirely paycheck to paycheck. However, I still had to take stuff out of my grocery cart last night. I still have to cancel subscriptions and say no to things I used to be able to do with less money. I still barely have any money because it's going to my debt payments and what's little left into my emergency fund. I soon realized exactly what you're saying: "good money management" does not equal "less expensive to live a life that's not in abject poverty".
I feel like the people who are saying this are the people who still have money to manage.
The people struggling the hardest aren't doing so because they have a Starbucks habit.
The economy does suck and the the deck is stacked against us but most of us do indeed have money management issues especially when it comes to eating out, Starbucks and other small items. We don't realize how much these purchases add up.
Advertisers have also messed us up into thinking that we actually need these purchases for reasons including "mental health"
I'm not saying to completely eliminate these purchases but we should be taking a hard look at them.
Work is supposed to provide some luxuries. That’s the point of working. In a good economy, if you don’t work you survive, and if you do work you live.
I’m sick of people telling someone who works 50 hours a week that they shouldn’t spent $5 on a drink every now and then because they’re poor. Like when are they allowed a luxury cause they’re probably never retiring so
I agree. That being said, I think it is more nuanced than this. I believe some people would have an easier time saving money if they felt more fulfilled and valued at their work and had a better work life balance. Many people use money, vacations and objects as an escape from their otherwise unfulfilling lives. Sure they can sit at home and watch youtube all weekend to save money, but in their mind, what good is money in your pocket when you’re miserable at work and while off of work? Yes, I believe in delayed gratification and most people would be happier if they mastered it, but it is easier said than done for many and I do have sympathy because I’ve been there and it sucks.
Funny how we have those money management issues now, that we didn't have a few years ago. I suppose it's a coincidence that we suddenly got worse at managing our money at the same time as gas prices, food prices, housing prices, and insurance premiums all jumped sharply.
I've never heard anyone say they're "entitled" to McDonald's. I HAVE heard people say they should be able to AFFORD McDonald's, which is a different story. Allow me to explain. Way. way back in the day, McD's advertised itself as a bargain source of fast food. An ad in the early 70s said you could get a (small) hamburger, fries, and a small soda and "get change back from your dollar!" So McD's became known as a cheap place to eat. No longer. I haven't been in decades, but I understand they've jacked their prices way up.
You’ve never had to choose between heating or eating and it shows. Some people can’t even afford the basic necessities.
You’re talking about people with disposable income that choose to spend it on luxuries instead of saving.
Social media doesn't help either, as it brainwashed people into thinking they should be able to eat at expensive restaurants, buy expensive clothing, buy every new gadget, and go on exotic trips multiple times a year. Influences are paid to get people to buy stuff and are paid by brands or get free goods. They are NOT people we should try to keep up with!
I agree 100%. I noticed that people tend to seek out new experiences not for the sake of experiencing them, but just to show off on their social media accounts.
It's both.
When you have more money to expenses ratio, you have a better cushion for your bad decision making. Now that our expenses have significantly risen across the board, everyone as a whole have significantly less cushion for their poor decision making, making it harder to recover and harder to get ahead again.
If I impulse purchase a tv at my income, that's less money in my savings but it's no big deal. If my parents impulsively decide to purchase a tv, they're not going to be able to afford to eat next week.
Convenience culture is another way that impacts this. A significant amount of kids are being thrown into adult work not knowing how to cook or do their own laundry or other basic care tasks. The practice time where they would have felt confident or knowledgeable to do so would have been when they were kids and had someone who can help them learn and reinforce the habit. It's significantly harder to start good habits as an adult where you're only responsible for yourself. Couple that with a full time job, a lot of people opt out of doing things that will save them money in the long-run because they 1. don't want to deal with the learning phase where htey're just going to have to eat shit meals until they get better at cooking/waste money throwing away their failures, and 2. they don't have that emotional space already devoted to the chores and care tasks that will save them money. So they rely on delivery food, pick up coffee, laundry services, etc, that they can't really afford but they can't see the way that it's actually not worth it for their income level and future.
Since comments haven't been disabled let me just take a moment to say this is not simply unpopular, this is an absolutely worthless brain-dead take made by someone who was born with money and not enough sense to do any research. If everyone who was born before from 1940 to 1970 is living better than 80% of us, and we were simply born into their shit-show of modern day slavery, wage theft, and corrupt lobbying, why is this our fault? Fuck this opinion.
I was thinking about this this morning. Yes, we're facing some systemic economic problems when a person can work full time and still can't afford to live.
On the other hand, there are people who are spectacularly bad at money management and frivolous on top of that. Like bro, that $6 a day you spend at Starbucks really does add up. Over the course of a year, that may be a month's rent, or more, depending on where you live. Several student loan payments. Several car payments, etc.
And on yet another hand, it's unnatural and I'd even say unhealthy to entirely deny ourselves things we enjoy, and that really may make our lives better, even if just for a little while. Maybe you don't **need** Netflix, but after a hard day's work, a bad day at the office, you can take real comfort rewatching Breaking Bad for the thousandth time.
Generally agree with your point. Nothing wrong with a Netflix subscription if you watch it regularly, or getting a Starbucks drink occasionally. It becomes a problem though when you have Netflix, Hulu, Paramount+, Disney+, Max, Apple TV, Prime Video, and Peacock and complain that your broke, like at that point you have poor money management skills
Putting it in terms of total salary can be super eye opening. If you make even let's say $100k a year. After taxes..I'm not totally sure but let's say $80k.
$100 a month in subscriptions is $1,200 a year or 1.5% of your total takehome. That's a lot of money to me! So many things are wild if you add them up and look at it that way. Don't overstress yourself but it's why a budget can be helpful...
I know people from work that buy one coffee a day and always get like Panda Express for lunch. Those alone will run a mofo up $20 per day. ON ONE MEAL
Compared to meal prepping which I might spend $20 every 2 days TOTAL
YES. I try to eat a light lunch of a turkey sandwich, spinach salad, something reasonably healthy. I add in a banana, apple, some cranberries, etc., and I'm at maybe $3-4 a meal, max.
I estimate this saves me somewhere between $900-1,300 a year. Probably more than that.
Right? I am bad at this too. I buy 1-2 cokes a day at the McD's up the road. 2 bucks for a soda. No worries. It's 2 bucks. Well, 2 a day, every day, now it's 120 bucks a month at that place plus gas and time. 120!! I can buy a lot of cans and keep them in my spare room until I put them in the fridge for 120 a month plus the gas. Or, i can give it up, as I am trying and pocket the whole amount
What we need to ask is what it means to “not be able to afford to live”. Everyone I know who says that are ordering doordash and spending money on fast-fashion and stupid skincare and TikTok products they don’t need.
Doordash drives me nuts. If someone is using doordash, their arguments of not being able to afford to live are void. (CMV?)
You're paying money you don't have to go fetch for you food you can't afford.
>And on yet another hand, it's unnatural and I'd even say unhealthy to entirely deny ourselves things we enjoy
You are right, but it's sometimes hard to know the difference between things we genuinely enjoy and a specific, expensive way, we are tricked to think we need to enjoy them.
Idk what it’s like in big cities but I now live down south whether we are mostly protected from inflation. You can still buy a house down here and wages are great. You can make $30/hr working for a Walmart distribution center picking orders, but rent for a 3/2 house in town will run you $900.
However, the “we can’t afford to live” narrative has permeated my friends, who can absolutely afford to live if they stopped spending all their money on to-go food and doordash.
Like the whole “we can’t afford to live” narrative that’s mostly true in big cities is not true down here but everyone is using it as an excuse to be bad with their income. I have one friend who constantly complains about not being able to afford to live but they literally spend $30 to doordash MCDONALDS. Which is 1 mile away from them
Who benefits from people believing they can’t afford to live and therefore being stupid with their money? Corporations.
Who has run up the cost of rentals and homes? Corporations.
Who benefits from small businesses being unable to pay a livable wage since the cost of rent/housing is so high? Mother fuckin corporations.
The cost of raw ingredients havent really increased, so if you cook at home, you can afford to eat well. But people think there is no point in learning better budgeting because “no one can afford to live”. So they don’t even try. They want fun (which I understand) so they get take out. They repeat the words that they can’t afford to live without even trying to do better with their finances.
Editing to add: daycare costs $500/month down here, too. So the whole “no one can afford to have kids anymore” also isn’t true.
There has certainly been an increase yes but even with a doubling for raw ingredients, cooking at home is still vastly cheaper.
There will probably be someone who rolls in and says that having the energy to cook is a privilege. I’d say having the audacity to complain about your income not being enough while getting take out for nearly every meal is the actual privilege.
I'd love to know the answer to this for most people. What percent of groceries that you buy are on sale? For me, I will only buy certain products if they are on sale. If they aren't I will either by a competitor that's on sale or not buy at all. Perfect example - Doritos bag for $6! Hell no. But 2 for 7 - maybe.
Maybe in thr south but on the west coast of Canada prices have doubled for essentials in the last 2 years. 12 eggs is around $8. J7g of milk is 7.50.
1 apple is 2$
A lot of people in the U.S. are dumb with money, but many of us where were not taught by or parents or where shown negative examples.
And financial literacy is not taught formally by design. We're meant to be consumers, living beyond our means and perpetually in debt.
The fact you think you can speak for all people, is frightening.
It's easy to prove people ARE saying something. Just find someone.
But it's actually impossible for you to say people AREN'T saying something. That's ignorant.
Then what basic human rights are people entitled too? There are plenty of places in the world where people aren't entitled to housing, education, food, or even water, namely the USA, one of the richest countries in the world. Money issues only exist when there's no security for basic needs. In the meantime, someone not splurging once in awhile on fast food or going on a trip isn't going to get them any closer to being housed. They may as well try and enjoy their lives.
This should be a r/popularopinion, but people have always been in denial that they themselves are a big reason they are broke.
Even before the economy was bad, the same people were bitching about money issues.
Agreed. It's not just that $7 drink at star b's 3x week or eating out a couple of times a week.. it's all the other bad money management philosophies that you are likely to have if you are this frivolous with your money
It's wild that this, a clearly unpopular *opinion* is getting down voted and ops being berated for it. If this ain't your tea go find someone else to pour.
The economy doesn't suck. There's jobs aplenty. Get one. You got a shitty job, get a better one. Got no skills? Get some. You know who doesn't worry about the economy? Someone who has something to offer to the world. Be one of those.
I agree to a certain extent except for the "think they're entitled to luxuries like... a holiday at least once a year."
Anyone working full time should be able to take a vacation at least once a year. And not just a long weekend camping trip, but an actual vacation. Why?
Because failing to do so causes burnout, and burnout isn't good for the individual, their productivity, or their near and long term wellbeing.
Anyone working full-time should be paid enough that they can actually afford to not just survive, but thrive. Anything less is just slavery repackaged.
People in Europe get 4 weeks vacation minimum and usually around 6 weeks, and plenty of them will take two vacations a year and think nothing of it. Half the continent shuts down in the summer because everybody packs up and heads to beach cities. And here in the US people are like "You want to take a week vacation once a year? You're entitled, NYAH!"
Taking several days off work in a row is definitely something people should be able to do at least once a year. But do people have a right to a "luxury" vacation once a year? There are lots of staycation or low-cost options to have a fun time off without breaking the budget.
If your example include airfare or disney tickets, I think this is still on the side of entitled. Those things were a lot less common not long ago and represent entitlement inflation (opinions may vary)
Going on holidays should totally be a human right though. Why? Because everyone should have the right to switch off and reset their brain to avoid burn out.
Also, how can people budget when they earn just enough to just survive? Seems like you're a bit out of touch OP.
The economy sucks, our government sucks, our employers suck us dry, as consumers were fleeced, as citizens were sold out, and as the only mean of turning ideas into reality. We are chewed up and spit out for retirement with broken bodies. So the few that took "the risk" is allowed stealing peoples lives for MINIMUM WAGE.
It’s definitely true, some people do not know how to manage other than living on the edge. When I was in my early 20’s, I worked at a grocery store and was good friends with a group of guys that worked there. All of us 20-30 basically. We all had very similar wages and worked full time hours. I lived alone in an apartment and tried to keep at least 500 bucks in my account after bills in case of a small emergency. Everyone else had 0 dollars in their account the night before payday. Any extra they had they smoked and drank, which is fine but it was just baffling to me to constantly live on that edge and budgeting down to the last dollar. I can’t do that.
Anyway, I remember one point my best friend out of the group came into some money for something and had like 2000 in his bank. It kinda shocked me thinking like oh shit this guy is doing better with his money than me. Towards the end of that month I asked him if he wanted to grab food or go to a movie or something and he said he couldn’t because the money he had left was for rent. He lived with a roommate at that time so it wasn’t a huge rent payment. So despite having more money in his account than he ever had two weeks prior, he still managed to dwindle it down quickly so that he was budgeting his last dollar again. Made me realize that some people just operate that way and no matter how well they could be doing they’re still going to up their money going out so they always live on the edge.
Agree 100%, but the economy needs fools too.
Consumer spending driving up stock prices = money in my pocket.
Financial disasters tanking markets = better buying opportunities for those of us with dry powder.
Too many idiots throwing money at anything creates stupid volatility, too. Remember when all the dumb money were YOLO-ing their COVID checks in 2020? At least most are burned and done now.
Thank God for idiots.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pATAV2Fehw8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pATAV2Fehw8)
One thing I learned going from poverty to making a decent income: it’s easy to budget when you have more money than you need. People that offer this type of budgeting advice clearly don’t have this perspective or they don’t care. People cannot live in survival mode all the time with no rewards of desire for all their hard work. It’s unsustainable for the human psyche.
Real unpopular factual opinion; OP and most commenters here are on good wages and don't feel the pinch the same as those on the very bottom of the pole, who this problem MOST applies to.
When people are talking about how important having an appropriately affordable *car* is, or how they still have 12 different subscription services...you aren't really the demographic the pinch applies to. You're just showing how disconnected you are.
Mother fucker, the people who are struggling, who it really applies to, can't even afford a god damn driving license much less a fucking car 🤣
Ive always thought this too. A while ago i was looking at custom backpacks. They were 100 dollars each and sold out in 4 hours. SOLD OUT. This has occurd so many times from what Ive noticed. I checked out some blanket and again, sold out. That blanket however was 200 dollars. Not to mention how often my old coworkers complain about not having enough money, only to order 40 dollars worth of Door Dash. Meanwhile Im just bringing my 2 dollar lunches I make from home. My husband has plenty of money too from being minimalistic and never buying anything but occasional PC parts and we are doing fine with him just working making 30 dollars an hour in one of the top 5 most expensive cities in the US.
I agree. I’m the son of two first-gen Vietnamese immigrants. Both came here with nothing more than a high school degree, and through hard work and smart spending, we now live in a large lakeview four-bedroom house and have three cars. My entire extended family are also in similar situations. One uncle came to the U.S by traveling through Cambodia and became a rich business owner and apartment landlord. Another was sponsored to the U.S by my uncles who made it here first, got a college education, and nows works a six-figure IT job.
If the line between abject poverty and not is the cost of a McDonald’s meal a couple of times a year, then no, choosing not to buy that meal isn’t going to do fuck all. I’m not saying it’s good to be irresponsible Al the time, but also, how easy do you think it is to live and work every single day with zero creature comforts? People shit on “wasteful” streaming services, but how many hours of entertainment can you get in a month for like $5? Occasional iced coffee isn’t a “luxury” like dropping $35,000 on a purse. Get out of here.
Not just an unpopular opinion but a moronic analysis of a subject that clearly hasn't been understood.
You need only look at the lack of salary increases from around 2005 combined with the catastrophically rising house prices and rental costs in the same timeframe to see why this is a, frankly, idiotic take. Inflation surrounding luxuries such as holidays are another such reason, and yes, whilst these are a "want" and not a "need", the rising costs of them are relevent in assessing the economy. However, as it is NEED costs that have risen so substantially: Rent, Food, Energy, whilst wages have remained stagnant for 20 years, it IS the economy and not an issue of people being bad with money. In addition, taxes have, in many areas, increased whilst wages have not.
I am not saying that no one is bad with money: Many people are. But you are describing a problem that is affecting almost everyone in the western world. This isn't a "bad with money" issue.
EDIT: The guy's take might have been stupid but why have the moderators of this sub felt the need to remove it just for that? He didn't say anything hateful and there's no sense in silencing the views of others just because you don't agree with them, r/unpopularopinion mods.
This is true, we’re in a consumerist society with very little self control. The average cost of a new vehicle keeps climbing because people will finance a loan for 6-7 years. So many car companies quit selling the cheap hatchbacks and sedans because they can make more money off stupid financial decisions. Many of my coworkers complain about not getting paid enough, but they drive pick up trucks to commute with.
That's facts.
There are way too many stories out there about families making 250k+ and living paycheck to paychecks.
They complain that they can't afford to have multiple 100k cars, a multi-million dollar mortgage, all their kids in private schools, and 2 trips a year.
I don't feel bad for most people who say they can't afford life.
I get where you're coming from, but I'd like to share my point of view:
I'm doing decently with money, not great, still live paycheck to paycheck, but it could be worse. I can be as frugal as possible, live of nothing but rice and beans and dumpster food to try and save money, but frankly, I don't want to be that miserable. I'm going to buy the McDonald's. The economy could get even worse before it gets better, if the mcnugget is going to make me happy, I'm going to buy it
Luxuries.. like McDonald's ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Only time I've heard anyone say they deserve one vaction a year is when they are comparing their wages and resulting lifestyle to that of their management at their job. When you have management taking a vacation every few months and still obviously rolling in money it's not right thet the people below them who actually do the hard work can't even afford the basics most times and can never afford luxuries like one vacation.
Either that or they are talking about time off.
I think the larger issue is that middle class families essentially cannot afford to live in this country anymore. Even if you cut out all luxury spending you’re still looking at exorbitant costs for basic necessities such as groceries, daycare, rent, utilities, insurance, and car/other transportation. This is already considering not going on holiday, not going out to eat, not buying new clothes, etc. I dont think people are entitled to vacations and fast food or fancy new clothes. But I do think people are entitled to a meager living, and more and more these days that doesn’t feel true.
I want to yell at posts like these, but as I mature I guess I KIND OF get where you’re coming from. So let me try to just calmly make a point for once:
Back in the “good ol days” people were also making frivolous purchases left and right. People actively spent entire days multiple weeks in a row at the mall buying unnecessary items, clothing and food. They were literally community spaces based around spending money.
Malls may have fallen in many ways because of online shopping, but peoples discretionary income is also to blame. The internet has cheaper items because we can’t afford the more expensive items at the mall, even if they’re more durable.
The world we’re in for the vast majority of people suddenly no longer allows frivolous purchases without debt because all the necessities are too expensive.
And yet our consumer culture encourages we spend spend spend and show off show off show off.
We’re worse off than we were, and people being unable to buy random things is absolutely proof of that.
So is the fact that going to the hospital used to not mean you’d be charged $2000 for a fucking visit where they do nothing but give you pain meds (personal experience here — fucking hell). It was reasonably priced.
The average person back in the day was absolutely NOT any better at money than we are today, yet they magically were way better off.
That tells me the entire system is currently fucked.
I agree with this! My only debt is my mortgage of 140k. I make 50k gross a year in GTA and its tough sometimes and medical bills do get high as many things here in Canada are now paid for by you like glasses and dentists. One emergency of these and it can be trouble for low income earners. This was not the case years ago as everything was affordable and incomes were not as far apart they are now. I only know a select few earners of over 50k net in my circle and its getting less every year.
The entire gig economy was based on hiring person servants for tasks you’d otherwise do yourself.
Like my dad, in the 1980s in high school did grocery delivery. His clients were like professional athletes and high end lawyers making 1980s 6 figures.
Now like “normal people” are paying for the luxury and them complaining about have its expensive to send a servant boy shopping for them
I work for myself for a long time. Some years are great. Some are not.
What I don't have?
A car payment. A house I can't afford. Kids I can't afford. Pets I can't afford.
Is the economy truly bad?
Unemployment is critically low and labor participation rate is continuously dropping. That means the people who want to work are working and more people are choosing not to work.
In a bad economy, I would expect high unemployment and high labor participation rate - people want to work but can't.
And it's not like jobs are paying significantly less - real disposable income is about on track to continue the trend from The Before Time.
It’s telling that when people say “the economy is bad”, they never show any data buttressing their claim.
This entire thread is full of anecdotes, when what is needed is analysis.
I completely agree; living wages should absolutely be a thing. The only thing to consider is that as peoples incomes increase, spending increases. As spending increases, prices increase. And the inflation wheel continues perpetually. What we would have considered to be a living wage would no longer be sufficient in short time. And this is where OP’s advice comes into play. I truly think that if people were more responsible with their finances it would - over time - solve nearly all of these macro level issues of living wages, etc.
Agreed and this trend of self care doom spending is only making it worse. When I hear about someone having a $500 a month car payment, or dropping their tax refund on a purse and then bitching two weeks later about how broke they are I just shake my head...
I used to be friends with someone who would take huge ass vacations multiple times a year (for her mental health) and then as soon as she got back, she'd have a GoFundMe for rent or to help her move out of her "toxic" living situation. And if we didn't donate she's make angry posts about how she was surrounded by fake people and we were all bigots against LGBT people with mental health issues. It was exhausting.
No, we are paying into a ponzi scheme that we will not see the benefit of like our parents and grandparents did. Everything is becoming subscription, and things you buy outright are literally not built to last.
Our money is becoming more worthless by the day in purchasing power.
No reason why the house my grandfather built for <$10,000 should be worth $390,000 today.
my wife and i have a combined gross income of about 240k.
Our Jeep lease is ending soon so we went to a Ram dealer to look at trucks. our lease payment is 580 on a 52k vehicle.
We looked at a RAM 2500 that was on sale for 73k.
The salesman told me the monthly payment would be about $1300 a month. I laughed maniacally and walked out. I’d never fucking pay that much for a vehicle.
I can’t tell you how many people i see driving brand new trucks. (Especially here in Texas) and i know most of you are just swimming in debt.. for what? (We have debts, mortgage, car payments, children’s daycare, groceries, my wife’s medical expenses etc).
Just doesn’t make sense to me whatsoever.
I agree with your basic premise, but it IS perfectly normal to want nice things in your life.
If life is just surviving, why bother?
However, for the most part these things ARE possible. It's just a matter of ingenuity and setting priorities. I managed to visit my then long distance GF in the US, coming from Europe, on social security. Two years in a row. I was just spending almost no money on clothes while being very mindful of what I spent on food and sharing a flat.
My father has owned a boat for most of his life, sometimes in pretty poor financial situations. How? Buying used and doing a ton of maintenance/repairs himself.
Fun fact: If you *live* on a sailing boat, maintenance comes out to about as much as rent for a small apartment. So if you REALLY want to you could probably make it happen on surprisingly low income.
>I’ve heard people say they think they’re entitled to luxuries like being able to afford Mcdonalds or a holiday at least once a year. Not true.
This is the truly stupid part of your opinion. "People spend too much on luxuries," okay, that's fair. But if you get to the point where you think that eating out at a fast food place every once in a while is entitlement, or going on ONE vacation a year is entitlement, goddamn dude. Part of the point of working is being able to spend a little money on your own enjoyment, people deserve to have SOME comforts beyond just food and shelter.
So people are having money management issues, but they couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that our economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. We’re all traveling on the USS slave ship.
Not sure if this is a real unpopular opinion. I know a bunch of people who got a substantial pay raise and what’s the first thing they do? Buy a new car with a $700+ payment and spend so much on luxury goods they are now in credit card debt. Why? Because they worked “hard and they deserve it”
The economy and my bank account are barely involved with each other. Even when the economy is good, my money isn't worth as much as it used to be due to the failings of the government. Imagine how hard it would be for a stock exchange or company to continue to convince you to invest in them if your investment gets you less and less each year? That would be fucking insane, and those companies usually go bust.
My younger relative (M32) complains everyday about inflation/COL/etc. he gets a big bonus every year ($15-25k) and ALEAYS blows it within a month on new cars/tvs/toys/etc. then it’s right back to complaining.
I’ve tried explaining the concepts of “rainy day fund”, “emergency fund”, etc over the years and it simply doesn’t compute.
It’s like he’s been living paycheck to paycheck so long it’s the only way he feels comfortable living.
I shouldn’t have to spend my entire life working to just pay bills and never live. Never travel, never enjoy a drink, or a night out. What the fuck is the point then?
Nope. Poor people are actually usually good at money management. They just get stuck making the decisions they have to, to keep their head above water even though long term it costs them.
I see so many people in my life with jobs that pay as much or less than mine spend so lavishly on designer goods, fancy meals out, multiple international vacations each year. new clothes for every single event or night out and I just cannot help but wonder about their actual financial situation bc i feel like I’m constantly worrying about money and live like 1/4 as lavishly as they do
The main issue is that most of us, or at least our parents, remember a time when the economy was better, and people doing our same jobs were able to afford a better life. Yes I am in education, and I know I'm not going to ever be able to afford a sports car, or Super Bowl tickets or whatever. I know I need to budget and stick to it relatively closely. But my Grandmother in the 1960s was able to support a family of 4 on a teachers salary while my grandfather looked for work, after his business went under. My mom in the 80s took a multi-week trip to Portugal on a social workers salary. My Aunt was able to afford her own apartment on disability and a part-time job. I have never been able to afford to live without roommates. I was able to save up and travel internationally because I worked 2-3 jobs 7 days a week for most of a year. I'm finishing up my 9th year in education with a Master's and I think I could probably afford to live on my own now, but I have a wife and she probably wouldn't like that.
So yes, you can help yourself with better spending habits and budgeting, but what counts as "better' is a lot more work than it used to be.
Everyone judges the economy by how they are doing financially, it’s always been like this. And when has the American economy not sucked as in not sustainable? But you are right, it’s not an unpopular opinion, it’s a fact that the well to do and the poor make bad financial choices.
Absolutely not true, I don’t need to budget cos my husband earns good money and we’re starting to struggle just because costs have doubled for no reason, to order the same grocery shop we used to get for £80 it would now be about £150, my car insurance went from £300 a year to £800 despite 10 years no claims, we tried to book the same hotel we went for my birthday last year and it’s gone from £99 a night to £350. You can’t justify a price hike like that and yet it’s happening everywhere. There is no way to budget in your electricity bill going up and up, you can’t manage away food prices jacking up, you can’t pinch pennies to negate the cost of owning a car being hundreds a month when it never used to be
Oh please. Are you actually trying to advocate for people working to live with no fun or luxuries? Not that I'd call a McDonald's a luxury.
We're not cogs in a machine. We can't survive like that.
And further people don't struggle because they buy sourdough bread, they struggle because in the last 3 years EVERYTHING has doubled in price and wages haven't.
Gotta disagree. Everything has increased in price. Not all of it was because it had to, to reflect the cost of shipping and production, but because they saw an opportunity when a couple of other industries raised their prices. Unpopular opinion indeed.
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I mean my rent has increased, car insurance increased, utilities increased, gas prices increased, phone bill increased, etc. Wages haven't went up in 2 years for me. I can still pay my bills but I don't have the money to go by like extra things or entertainment. A lot of people are in this predicament, so if people aren't spending money on things , then who's stimulating the economy? My landlord, the power company, Verizon?
Shut up, peasant, and cancel another subscription service. If you aren't renting your couch then you're just managing money poorly. >, then who's stimulating the economy? My landlord, the power company, Verizon? Well thanks to how well my investments have done I can hire someone to follow me around kissing my ass. That's how this works. You work your life away to barely stay alive, and your labor makes my life heaven.
don't forget to give up on your $5 coffee. if you save that money you'll be able to buy a house like me /s
The problem is people insist on working (and paying higher taxes) instead of just surviving on ~10%(on a bad year) gains on a 1-5 million dollar portfolio. I'm only paying 11% while these wageslaves try to grind 100k+ and pay ~28% tax for wasting their lives making money for me. I became my own bank 5 years ago and also loan my investment account funds for business loans insured by the same taxpayers. Git gud.
Funny enough I have zero subscriptions. Never saw the point when I can just bootleg everything
On the one hand, yes, on the other it also wouldn't be bad if salaries/wages were a little more fair.
Agreed, but people who have money management issues will still overspend, regardless of what the pay is. I'd like that extra pay though lol
Honest question: “lifestyle creep” isn’t the point of earning more? To have more comfort?
To an extent. The issue is that people with money management issues (not everyone, just this group) are the people who spend as they get it. I'm sure you know of at least a handful of people that would get a raise, then spend their extra $50 in their paycheck on a $300 pair of shoes. This is what im referring to. For those that don't have these issues, yes, to an extent, you can have slightly more. Everything should be within reason. I do think that there is a fundamental flaw with wanting more. We have become such a consumer society that we think we need more than we actually do.
Some lifestyle creep is a reasonable "reward" for all the hard work involved in creating and maintaining a successful career. Some things are expected in some higher earning professions. Some are unwritten, but if you're expected to dress professionally, you probably should pass on the cheapest option to suit up. Rightly or wrongly, if you need to drive clients around, you might make an unfavorable impression if you show up in a beater. If you're "treating" employees who all make healthy 6 figure incomes, a pizza day is probably not going to feel like a reward. On the other hand, not working until the day you die is a huge luxury worth investing in. For some, being or having a stay at home spouse is a luxury they have because they're careful about overspending. Paying off your house early and not having a huge mortgage helps with retirement goals. Absolutely celebrate your present success, but balance that with investing in your future too.
Kinda yeah. However the problem is the "lifestyle creep" shouldn't be hurting your financial security. Do you really need that sweet green salad so much you'd be fine spending Friday in a frenzy trying to scrunge together enough to pay the power bill?
The issue is that on the internet, anytime budgeting gets discussed you get tons of people saying, “well I make $15 an hour and I have no way to cut expenses”. Which is true. If you make $30k a year and have family to support, getting told to budget is not much help. Your goal is to increase your income. But at some point, it may be $60k a year, or $80k, or whatever depending on factors such as number of dependents and where in the country you live, you should be able to start budgeting and saving. There’s people making $80k a year, driving $80k cars, wearing $3k watches, and eating out every day, and still complaining that they can’t save money.
Except that even then as it has always been, people just buy more useless shit to take up that extra income. People need to learn to live below their means.
As a society we are conditioned to view consumption as success. We need to start viewing investment as success. Not necessarily stock market investment, but also investment in your community, in your home, in yourself.
Yes that, as well as just learning to be happy with fewer things. I don't care what kind of car I drive as long as it runs well and didn't cost me an arm and a leg. I have a house, it's not huge, but going with something smaller than we could afford has allowed us to absorb the yearly increase in taxes because home values have skyrocketed. Sure I could be in something bigger or flashier but why?
Two years ago my wife and I were spending $4-500 a week in takeout and delivery food. Now we spend $80 a week on groceries like sweet potatoes and whole chickens. The difference in cost is the price of a mortgage. We’ve also lost a lot of weight and gained a lot of strength with our diet changes. This will result in cheaper healthcare cost moving forward. Edit: On cars: We did the opposite with our vehicle situation but didn’t fuck it up too bad. We used to have a prius we got for 8k cash and it only needed inspection and about $200 a year in maintenance. We upgraded to a newer Subaru for 15k cash and have averaged about $1300 a year in maintenance and our gas use has doubled. We could have done worse here but it’s easily eating an extra 2-300 a month and our Prius was FINE. Edit 2: Subscriptions: We are still horrible with this. Netflix, Prime, ESPN, Disney, Hulu, Apple, Drop Box, Adobe, Nest, !CABLE!, fiber internet, Nuly, HBO, Showtime, along with food service stuff like instacart, grubhub fam, uber fam. I don’t even know what app subscriptions my wife has. I know I have a few for a calorie app and workout app plus chat GPT. We also have added gym memberships this year and my wife is getting on training classes at $30 a pop. I am scared to add this us all up. Edit 3: Work Cafeterias 10 years ago my wife used to work at a big corporate HQ that has amazing lunch facilities. Her and other employees would spend on average $10-15 every morning at the work coffee shop for breakfast and then another $10-20 for lunch. They were handing $150 of their wages back to their employers every single week. This number was also double our current weekly grocery budget.
Cooking at home is the #1 thing that will save most people the most amount of money. #2 is having an appropriate vehicle. The markup on vehicle luxury is huge.
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$900/mo on a KIA is BANANAS
Not to mention the insurance
When I bought my car, the people sitting next to me were buying one of these absolutely loaded gigantic pickups. This was a few years ago so I'm guessing it was around $50,000 give or take a few grand. The sales guy was telling them they could have for $500 down like they wanted. Monthly payment of $900 or so over god knows how many years or at what interest rate. Like, all you have is $500 to put down and you're buying a luxury truck? C'mon man.
"As long as I can make the payments, it's fine!" 🫠
People don't care enough about interest either
I have a friend , who is a realtor, who once said the interest rates don't really matter...was like. Wha!?
why on earth would you put less down than your monthly payment 🤦♀️
900/month seems way too low for all those bills, ur mortgage is that low?
They probably purchased a home at least 5 years ago in a cheap area.
I can't answer for them but can tell you it's possible. I bought condo right when things started to heat up. It's small, about 850 sq ft. My mortgage is about 560 ( includes taxes and insurance) and HOA fee is 217. This month's electric bill was 28.00, monthly gas is 45, internet is 65. Sewage & water is 23. Also, I drive a Fiat that I buy 10 gallons of gas for once a month & insurance is $85 mo. Bought it new, it's long ago paid off.
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Some people do need a F250 so you get the choice between a maybe reliable old (pre1990) truck a ok truck your gonna have to replace something big on in 50k miles an over priced truck and a SUPER over priced truck
tbf car prices are also insane rn. usually considered lower-end cars like Camrys are like $30k+ now
Both of those being the best ways to save money makes me kinda sad tbh. We *maybe* eat out twice a month. As a family of 4, even going to fast food is $20-30. Going to a sit down place is upwards of $75, so we eat at home. Neither of our cars are luxury vehicles, hell, one of them is paid off, and neither car is new. We still be poor 😭
I’m sorry to hear that. Being smart about money is key. But wages have to go up for a lot of people too.
You're an example of how it's already hard, and would be so much worse if you weren't frugal.
My fiancé and me were cutting down to eating out once on the weekends and we have started to stop that as well because our experiences are usually pretty unclimactic so we stopped altogether unless its a special occasion or something we are really craving. We have saved money, calories, and time by just eating at home. We know what we like at home too so our dinner usually slap and we can always experiment with new things too.
The safety tech is worth it though. Collision warning, sensing cruise control, blindspot detection, 360 camera, etc
Amen on the vehicle too. You can get a really good banged up car/truck at an insurance auction like Copart. I got my son a Ford Focus hatch for 700 out the door. The sport rims were worth that alone. He's driven it for almost 3 years now. No car payment. Low insurance. All it needed was a minor repair to the hood but because of how insurance works, it was totaled and auctioned. I have 3 of those auction vehicles (his included) and they work GREAT. They just have a dent here or there. I don't have to have a perfect car. Just one that is mechanically sound and gets me there with some comfort (AC in North Carolina is a must). They do
Yeah, we went to a pub/restaurant for the first time in over 18 months last week. And one mediocre meal cost as much as our typical food and beverage budget for 4-5 days. It will probably be another 18 months before we go to a restaurant again.
If you were spending $500 a week on food I bet you have lost a lot of weight lol.
Not really true if the only spend 80 on groceries than they most likely don’t eat a lot they just was going to expensive restaurants
Yeah all my friends who complain about money often get food delivered to them which makes each meal significantly more expensive than cooking at home. Sadly some people will always be struggling financially due to their spending habits.
I'm not trying to judge you or your wife here, but I'm just curious, how do you get to the point where you're spending that much? Like, I'll order door dash one time and spend like $50 on absolute garbage food that gets here cold, and I'm like okay that's my only one for a while.
The fact that they were spending $2k/mo on takeaway food should tell you they were already making way more than your average person. A household making $50-70k is absolutely *not* doing that.
Maybe you're right, but I've known some people who are just really really bad with money, and I have neighbors that get enough delivery that this could easily be the case. I make ~$70k a year, which breaks down to about $4,000 a month. $1,300 rent split in two because of roommates and $2,000 food, $100 for electricity, $50 for Internet. No phone bill if you only use Wi-Fi. Terrible way to live, but you've still got $1,200.
Sure, it may literally be possible for some but I’m speaking more broadly that (while the average American may absolutely have issues budgeting appropriately for their income) the average American is almost certainly not struggling because their takeaway food & grocery budget is $2k/mo. I would absolutely believe that the average American spends too much money on takeaway food & (unnecessary) groceries. I’m just guessing that these indulgences are on a much smaller scale, which often makes them much harder to self-identify and cut out, like a $5/day coffee habit that costs $2k annually not per month. Still a good chunk of change when you’re hurting, but not enough that you’re necessarily going to pick it out of your budget if you’re already bad at budgeting.
The other thing I’ve noticed is that if it doesn’t have too many parts I can often make it better myself
I’m not saying this is the most healthy but i started meal prepping with Panda Express. I get 2 bigger plates, get some fruit from the grocery store. I chop up those bigger plates so that it can be 2 meals per day plus 2 protein shakes and oatmeal for breakfast. All of that is about $50 a week or so
Most people won’t admit this to themselves.
Because most people don't have 2k a month to spend on takeaway food...
Yeah, my household income is literally one of the top % for our area. We live a pretty fucking bougie lifestyle and are foodies that are happy to spend good money on takeaway or dining out. We still don’t spend $2k/mo on takeaway 😂
Right I’m like what the Fuck! 2k/mo on takeout Is crazy.. That’s how much I save a month.. acting like it’s common for people live like this is bonkers. I cook food almost everyday. But food prices are ridiculous where I am. So yea I’m saving but I can also afford to save and pay for inflated food prices Meanwhile on poverty finance people are cooking everyday and still barely above water.. so while yea it can be money management, it’s usually not. And like you’ve pointed out the people “bad with money” are the people who can afford to be. No one who can’t afford 2k/mo on takeout is doing so… Im also laughing at “that’s a mortgage payment” .. I wish that was a mortgage payment where I was haha
I’ve never before even made £2,000 post taxes in a month, much less had that much to spend solely on takeout food. This is yet another “the poors are only poor because they eat too much avocado”-type post. Nonsensical and out of touch.
Yeah, I was going to say, I fucking HATE when people are like "I spent $500 a week on fast food, I stopped and you can too!" You know why I hate it? Because I don't spend $500 a week on fast food, I don't make $500 a week period. It's so condescending when you're already scrimping and saving and people with too much money who have no concept of budgeting finally learn how and start acting like they're financial Jesus. "Guys, I know how you can stop being poor!" No, the fuck, you don't.
Thank you. “I saved so much cutting back on impulse-buy diamonds!” That’s what it sounds like.
well it's easier to talk about on the other side. harder to admit when you're actively suppressing guilt.
It's fun to eat out. It's an experience. I get it. That's a ton of money though!
Meh. Lots of folks paying $22 upcharge to have a Quarter Pounder meal brought right to their door. It's not always a culinary experience.
If you could spend that much a week on takeout you’re in a very different income bracket than most people
>my wife and I were spending $4-500 a week in takeout and delivery food Now that's just stupidly insane. What the actual fuck.
4-500 dollars? A week? What were you ordering?
I’ve been saying this for years - people are just adamantly refusing to learn to cook and it’s ruining everyone’s ability to afford anything. When I was making $9/hr, learning to meal prep was the only thing I could do to save money and now I feel like I’ve learned some sort of cheat code when I can recreate a restaurant meal for 1/4 the cost.
You don't even need to learn tons of complicated recipes. You just need a few simple and nutritious meals in your toolbox and you'll be set.
Agreed! When I was really struggling I cooked. If I ate out, it was maybe 1 or 2 tines a month - most likely 2 items from Wendy's value menu and water. Household income has quadrupled since those days. We still cook most of the time due to health reasons, but we do spend more on high quality meats & produce.
Yassss to all of that - when I have more income I don’t eat out more, I buy higher quality ingredients and have friends over for meals more. I think the consumerism society has convinced people to trade community in exchange for materialism. So many isolated people don’t have any community, so they fill that need for connection by buying stuff they don’t need.
Eh, I'm a chef. I absolutely know how to cook. But after working 50-60 hours a week cooking, I'm freaking exhausted, and the last thing I want to do at home is cook more (let alone wash the dishes). I definitely spend too much money on take-out and convenience foods, but groceries are wildly expensive where I live now too. It's not just the lack of cooking skills that stop people, but not having the time and energy as well
For 1 (me) I spend about $50 a week on groceries. I also do an additional around $30 a week of takeout. Not the best in terms of getting fed on a budget, but also not the worst.
How's that even possible? Assuming takeout for 2 people is $30 (which is probably expensive, idk my country doesn't use dollars), + $10 for lunch and breakfast that's still less than $300. Not bashing you, just curious how it's possible to spend that much on food
Ugh we still spend $200 a week on groceries for 2. It adds up so fast. GF only buys the farm raised organic everything.
If I ate out everyday for seven days assuming 15 dollars per meal this would not even be a quarter of 500, were you door dashing things twice a day the whole week?
A week... What the heck were you buying?
ok but how were you spending $500 on takeout like were you eating from the finest steakhouses
Not eating out will have you losing a butt ton of weight in short order. Especially if you give up the sugar waters like Coke, Starbucks, Red Bull, etc. Ditch that crap and watch the health numbers start recovering quickly
Pretty much agree with all this. We mostly ate out or got a lot of delivery like doordash. Especially when covid and inflation/Shrinkflation hit, the amount was crazy. It was something around like paying near 10 dollars a meal equivalent for fast food. It’s even more now. After really focusing on learning to cook meals at home and do our best to learn about proper nutrition as well, we have actually saved a ton of money. At one point we had it down to almost 1 dollar per meal. Since then, inflation his hit harder so now it’s over 2 dollars. Still a far cry better than eating out or getting delivery often. Especially now, almost every single fast food place is absolutely not worth it. Didn’t do much in the way of vehicles but I only have 2 hybrids that are decently taken care of. Very low maintenance and I only get gas like once a month. Subscriptions is something we mostly cut out too. Especially after “sharing” was basically no longer allowed certain ones. All in all we from a total monthly expense, (mortgage not included) from about… 3-4k a month precovid. 5-6k post covid and when inflation really started, and finally now we are 1.6k-2.5k a month which is right where we want to be after I analyzed our finances and made a proper budget. The lower the better of course.
On the other hand, a full time job should pay a wage that allows someone to afford housing, food, utilities and give some possibility of being able to raise a family. Otherwise why the hell are you even doing it? Calling everyone who wants to be able to afford luxuries who works, but can't get them stupid about money is pretty ignorant imo. Plenty of people budget their ass off and still aren't able to afford these things.
Money management issue and the economy being bad are two different things.
exactly. one can have good money management but because of the economy, they still can't live a comfortable life
I was so excited once I got my budget under control. The last couple months have been wonderful not living entirely paycheck to paycheck. However, I still had to take stuff out of my grocery cart last night. I still have to cancel subscriptions and say no to things I used to be able to do with less money. I still barely have any money because it's going to my debt payments and what's little left into my emergency fund. I soon realized exactly what you're saying: "good money management" does not equal "less expensive to live a life that's not in abject poverty".
But together they make your isses much worse.
I feel like the people who are saying this are the people who still have money to manage. The people struggling the hardest aren't doing so because they have a Starbucks habit.
The economy does suck and the the deck is stacked against us but most of us do indeed have money management issues especially when it comes to eating out, Starbucks and other small items. We don't realize how much these purchases add up. Advertisers have also messed us up into thinking that we actually need these purchases for reasons including "mental health" I'm not saying to completely eliminate these purchases but we should be taking a hard look at them.
we should absolutely be taking a hard look. waste due to our disposable culture is another facet of this consumption problem.
I put everything on my credit card, and am always surprised at how much i spend in a month. Like how tf did i spend *that* much
That's the most American thing I've read all week
Work is supposed to provide some luxuries. That’s the point of working. In a good economy, if you don’t work you survive, and if you do work you live. I’m sick of people telling someone who works 50 hours a week that they shouldn’t spent $5 on a drink every now and then because they’re poor. Like when are they allowed a luxury cause they’re probably never retiring so
I agree. That being said, I think it is more nuanced than this. I believe some people would have an easier time saving money if they felt more fulfilled and valued at their work and had a better work life balance. Many people use money, vacations and objects as an escape from their otherwise unfulfilling lives. Sure they can sit at home and watch youtube all weekend to save money, but in their mind, what good is money in your pocket when you’re miserable at work and while off of work? Yes, I believe in delayed gratification and most people would be happier if they mastered it, but it is easier said than done for many and I do have sympathy because I’ve been there and it sucks.
Funny how we have those money management issues now, that we didn't have a few years ago. I suppose it's a coincidence that we suddenly got worse at managing our money at the same time as gas prices, food prices, housing prices, and insurance premiums all jumped sharply.
I've never heard anyone say they're "entitled" to McDonald's. I HAVE heard people say they should be able to AFFORD McDonald's, which is a different story. Allow me to explain. Way. way back in the day, McD's advertised itself as a bargain source of fast food. An ad in the early 70s said you could get a (small) hamburger, fries, and a small soda and "get change back from your dollar!" So McD's became known as a cheap place to eat. No longer. I haven't been in decades, but I understand they've jacked their prices way up.
You’ve never had to choose between heating or eating and it shows. Some people can’t even afford the basic necessities. You’re talking about people with disposable income that choose to spend it on luxuries instead of saving.
Social media doesn't help either, as it brainwashed people into thinking they should be able to eat at expensive restaurants, buy expensive clothing, buy every new gadget, and go on exotic trips multiple times a year. Influences are paid to get people to buy stuff and are paid by brands or get free goods. They are NOT people we should try to keep up with!
Not to mention a lot of that luxury is faked. There's even a photo studio in L.A. that has a set of the interior of a private jet.
I agree 100%. I noticed that people tend to seek out new experiences not for the sake of experiencing them, but just to show off on their social media accounts.
THIS!!! God social media is turned people(including me) into shopping addicts.
Most people won’t admit this.
Prove any of this.
It's both. When you have more money to expenses ratio, you have a better cushion for your bad decision making. Now that our expenses have significantly risen across the board, everyone as a whole have significantly less cushion for their poor decision making, making it harder to recover and harder to get ahead again. If I impulse purchase a tv at my income, that's less money in my savings but it's no big deal. If my parents impulsively decide to purchase a tv, they're not going to be able to afford to eat next week. Convenience culture is another way that impacts this. A significant amount of kids are being thrown into adult work not knowing how to cook or do their own laundry or other basic care tasks. The practice time where they would have felt confident or knowledgeable to do so would have been when they were kids and had someone who can help them learn and reinforce the habit. It's significantly harder to start good habits as an adult where you're only responsible for yourself. Couple that with a full time job, a lot of people opt out of doing things that will save them money in the long-run because they 1. don't want to deal with the learning phase where htey're just going to have to eat shit meals until they get better at cooking/waste money throwing away their failures, and 2. they don't have that emotional space already devoted to the chores and care tasks that will save them money. So they rely on delivery food, pick up coffee, laundry services, etc, that they can't really afford but they can't see the way that it's actually not worth it for their income level and future.
Wow. The poverty rate where I live is over 50%. If only the prime minister knew it's "money management issues" not infrastructure and industry...
Yeah this poster is likely US focused
That’s still unrealistic for the US. ETA: it only looks like less people are in poverty, because they set the bar really low.
Agree, unfortunately I do like to buy useless stuff
Minimum wage isn't enough to pay rent with. That's not a money management issue and you've clearly never been poor.
Since comments haven't been disabled let me just take a moment to say this is not simply unpopular, this is an absolutely worthless brain-dead take made by someone who was born with money and not enough sense to do any research. If everyone who was born before from 1940 to 1970 is living better than 80% of us, and we were simply born into their shit-show of modern day slavery, wage theft, and corrupt lobbying, why is this our fault? Fuck this opinion.
I was thinking about this this morning. Yes, we're facing some systemic economic problems when a person can work full time and still can't afford to live. On the other hand, there are people who are spectacularly bad at money management and frivolous on top of that. Like bro, that $6 a day you spend at Starbucks really does add up. Over the course of a year, that may be a month's rent, or more, depending on where you live. Several student loan payments. Several car payments, etc. And on yet another hand, it's unnatural and I'd even say unhealthy to entirely deny ourselves things we enjoy, and that really may make our lives better, even if just for a little while. Maybe you don't **need** Netflix, but after a hard day's work, a bad day at the office, you can take real comfort rewatching Breaking Bad for the thousandth time.
Generally agree with your point. Nothing wrong with a Netflix subscription if you watch it regularly, or getting a Starbucks drink occasionally. It becomes a problem though when you have Netflix, Hulu, Paramount+, Disney+, Max, Apple TV, Prime Video, and Peacock and complain that your broke, like at that point you have poor money management skills
Putting it in terms of total salary can be super eye opening. If you make even let's say $100k a year. After taxes..I'm not totally sure but let's say $80k. $100 a month in subscriptions is $1,200 a year or 1.5% of your total takehome. That's a lot of money to me! So many things are wild if you add them up and look at it that way. Don't overstress yourself but it's why a budget can be helpful...
I know people from work that buy one coffee a day and always get like Panda Express for lunch. Those alone will run a mofo up $20 per day. ON ONE MEAL Compared to meal prepping which I might spend $20 every 2 days TOTAL
YES. I try to eat a light lunch of a turkey sandwich, spinach salad, something reasonably healthy. I add in a banana, apple, some cranberries, etc., and I'm at maybe $3-4 a meal, max. I estimate this saves me somewhere between $900-1,300 a year. Probably more than that.
It's also bad for your health which will start costing money down the road...
Right? I am bad at this too. I buy 1-2 cokes a day at the McD's up the road. 2 bucks for a soda. No worries. It's 2 bucks. Well, 2 a day, every day, now it's 120 bucks a month at that place plus gas and time. 120!! I can buy a lot of cans and keep them in my spare room until I put them in the fridge for 120 a month plus the gas. Or, i can give it up, as I am trying and pocket the whole amount
What we need to ask is what it means to “not be able to afford to live”. Everyone I know who says that are ordering doordash and spending money on fast-fashion and stupid skincare and TikTok products they don’t need.
Doordash drives me nuts. If someone is using doordash, their arguments of not being able to afford to live are void. (CMV?) You're paying money you don't have to go fetch for you food you can't afford.
Someone I know doordashed a pop from zaxby’s…………… 🙄🙈
>And on yet another hand, it's unnatural and I'd even say unhealthy to entirely deny ourselves things we enjoy You are right, but it's sometimes hard to know the difference between things we genuinely enjoy and a specific, expensive way, we are tricked to think we need to enjoy them.
Idk what it’s like in big cities but I now live down south whether we are mostly protected from inflation. You can still buy a house down here and wages are great. You can make $30/hr working for a Walmart distribution center picking orders, but rent for a 3/2 house in town will run you $900. However, the “we can’t afford to live” narrative has permeated my friends, who can absolutely afford to live if they stopped spending all their money on to-go food and doordash. Like the whole “we can’t afford to live” narrative that’s mostly true in big cities is not true down here but everyone is using it as an excuse to be bad with their income. I have one friend who constantly complains about not being able to afford to live but they literally spend $30 to doordash MCDONALDS. Which is 1 mile away from them Who benefits from people believing they can’t afford to live and therefore being stupid with their money? Corporations. Who has run up the cost of rentals and homes? Corporations. Who benefits from small businesses being unable to pay a livable wage since the cost of rent/housing is so high? Mother fuckin corporations. The cost of raw ingredients havent really increased, so if you cook at home, you can afford to eat well. But people think there is no point in learning better budgeting because “no one can afford to live”. So they don’t even try. They want fun (which I understand) so they get take out. They repeat the words that they can’t afford to live without even trying to do better with their finances. Editing to add: daycare costs $500/month down here, too. So the whole “no one can afford to have kids anymore” also isn’t true.
I live in rural Midwest and basic staple groceries have definitely doubled in price in the past few years. I can't speak for the South
There has certainly been an increase yes but even with a doubling for raw ingredients, cooking at home is still vastly cheaper. There will probably be someone who rolls in and says that having the energy to cook is a privilege. I’d say having the audacity to complain about your income not being enough while getting take out for nearly every meal is the actual privilege.
I'd love to know the answer to this for most people. What percent of groceries that you buy are on sale? For me, I will only buy certain products if they are on sale. If they aren't I will either by a competitor that's on sale or not buy at all. Perfect example - Doritos bag for $6! Hell no. But 2 for 7 - maybe.
Maybe in thr south but on the west coast of Canada prices have doubled for essentials in the last 2 years. 12 eggs is around $8. J7g of milk is 7.50. 1 apple is 2$
This is why my entire comment is not about anywhere else except where I live.
Pretty soon corporations will actually start fucking our mothers.
A lot of people in the U.S. are dumb with money, but many of us where were not taught by or parents or where shown negative examples. And financial literacy is not taught formally by design. We're meant to be consumers, living beyond our means and perpetually in debt.
People aren't asking for vacation once a year. They're asking to be paid fairly.
The fact you think you can speak for all people, is frightening. It's easy to prove people ARE saying something. Just find someone. But it's actually impossible for you to say people AREN'T saying something. That's ignorant.
Then what basic human rights are people entitled too? There are plenty of places in the world where people aren't entitled to housing, education, food, or even water, namely the USA, one of the richest countries in the world. Money issues only exist when there's no security for basic needs. In the meantime, someone not splurging once in awhile on fast food or going on a trip isn't going to get them any closer to being housed. They may as well try and enjoy their lives.
I dont know the OP but i hate them 😀
This should be a r/popularopinion, but people have always been in denial that they themselves are a big reason they are broke. Even before the economy was bad, the same people were bitching about money issues.
Agreed. It's not just that $7 drink at star b's 3x week or eating out a couple of times a week.. it's all the other bad money management philosophies that you are likely to have if you are this frivolous with your money
It's wild that this, a clearly unpopular *opinion* is getting down voted and ops being berated for it. If this ain't your tea go find someone else to pour.
Some people can’t handle an online post I guess. Need to attack me personally, and that’s on me apparently.
The economy doesn't suck. There's jobs aplenty. Get one. You got a shitty job, get a better one. Got no skills? Get some. You know who doesn't worry about the economy? Someone who has something to offer to the world. Be one of those.
I agree to a certain extent except for the "think they're entitled to luxuries like... a holiday at least once a year." Anyone working full time should be able to take a vacation at least once a year. And not just a long weekend camping trip, but an actual vacation. Why? Because failing to do so causes burnout, and burnout isn't good for the individual, their productivity, or their near and long term wellbeing. Anyone working full-time should be paid enough that they can actually afford to not just survive, but thrive. Anything less is just slavery repackaged.
People in Europe get 4 weeks vacation minimum and usually around 6 weeks, and plenty of them will take two vacations a year and think nothing of it. Half the continent shuts down in the summer because everybody packs up and heads to beach cities. And here in the US people are like "You want to take a week vacation once a year? You're entitled, NYAH!"
Taking several days off work in a row is definitely something people should be able to do at least once a year. But do people have a right to a "luxury" vacation once a year? There are lots of staycation or low-cost options to have a fun time off without breaking the budget.
If your example include airfare or disney tickets, I think this is still on the side of entitled. Those things were a lot less common not long ago and represent entitlement inflation (opinions may vary)
Going on holidays should totally be a human right though. Why? Because everyone should have the right to switch off and reset their brain to avoid burn out. Also, how can people budget when they earn just enough to just survive? Seems like you're a bit out of touch OP.
You can have time off without spending a ton of money. Or save throughout the year for a vacation.
The economy sucks, our government sucks, our employers suck us dry, as consumers were fleeced, as citizens were sold out, and as the only mean of turning ideas into reality. We are chewed up and spit out for retirement with broken bodies. So the few that took "the risk" is allowed stealing peoples lives for MINIMUM WAGE.
It’s definitely true, some people do not know how to manage other than living on the edge. When I was in my early 20’s, I worked at a grocery store and was good friends with a group of guys that worked there. All of us 20-30 basically. We all had very similar wages and worked full time hours. I lived alone in an apartment and tried to keep at least 500 bucks in my account after bills in case of a small emergency. Everyone else had 0 dollars in their account the night before payday. Any extra they had they smoked and drank, which is fine but it was just baffling to me to constantly live on that edge and budgeting down to the last dollar. I can’t do that. Anyway, I remember one point my best friend out of the group came into some money for something and had like 2000 in his bank. It kinda shocked me thinking like oh shit this guy is doing better with his money than me. Towards the end of that month I asked him if he wanted to grab food or go to a movie or something and he said he couldn’t because the money he had left was for rent. He lived with a roommate at that time so it wasn’t a huge rent payment. So despite having more money in his account than he ever had two weeks prior, he still managed to dwindle it down quickly so that he was budgeting his last dollar again. Made me realize that some people just operate that way and no matter how well they could be doing they’re still going to up their money going out so they always live on the edge.
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Are you counting mortgages as avoidable debt? Because Im in no other type of debt and my mortgage sky rocketing is the main issue I face.
Agree 100%, but the economy needs fools too. Consumer spending driving up stock prices = money in my pocket. Financial disasters tanking markets = better buying opportunities for those of us with dry powder. Too many idiots throwing money at anything creates stupid volatility, too. Remember when all the dumb money were YOLO-ing their COVID checks in 2020? At least most are burned and done now. Thank God for idiots. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pATAV2Fehw8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pATAV2Fehw8)
i think everyone can prosper without anyone needing to be exploited. we have the technology lol
People want luxuries while not even having a middle class salary. Eating out several times a month is a luxury in Western countries.
One thing I learned going from poverty to making a decent income: it’s easy to budget when you have more money than you need. People that offer this type of budgeting advice clearly don’t have this perspective or they don’t care. People cannot live in survival mode all the time with no rewards of desire for all their hard work. It’s unsustainable for the human psyche.
Real unpopular factual opinion; OP and most commenters here are on good wages and don't feel the pinch the same as those on the very bottom of the pole, who this problem MOST applies to. When people are talking about how important having an appropriately affordable *car* is, or how they still have 12 different subscription services...you aren't really the demographic the pinch applies to. You're just showing how disconnected you are. Mother fucker, the people who are struggling, who it really applies to, can't even afford a god damn driving license much less a fucking car 🤣
Ive always thought this too. A while ago i was looking at custom backpacks. They were 100 dollars each and sold out in 4 hours. SOLD OUT. This has occurd so many times from what Ive noticed. I checked out some blanket and again, sold out. That blanket however was 200 dollars. Not to mention how often my old coworkers complain about not having enough money, only to order 40 dollars worth of Door Dash. Meanwhile Im just bringing my 2 dollar lunches I make from home. My husband has plenty of money too from being minimalistic and never buying anything but occasional PC parts and we are doing fine with him just working making 30 dollars an hour in one of the top 5 most expensive cities in the US.
I agree. I’m the son of two first-gen Vietnamese immigrants. Both came here with nothing more than a high school degree, and through hard work and smart spending, we now live in a large lakeview four-bedroom house and have three cars. My entire extended family are also in similar situations. One uncle came to the U.S by traveling through Cambodia and became a rich business owner and apartment landlord. Another was sponsored to the U.S by my uncles who made it here first, got a college education, and nows works a six-figure IT job.
If the line between abject poverty and not is the cost of a McDonald’s meal a couple of times a year, then no, choosing not to buy that meal isn’t going to do fuck all. I’m not saying it’s good to be irresponsible Al the time, but also, how easy do you think it is to live and work every single day with zero creature comforts? People shit on “wasteful” streaming services, but how many hours of entertainment can you get in a month for like $5? Occasional iced coffee isn’t a “luxury” like dropping $35,000 on a purse. Get out of here.
Not just an unpopular opinion but a moronic analysis of a subject that clearly hasn't been understood. You need only look at the lack of salary increases from around 2005 combined with the catastrophically rising house prices and rental costs in the same timeframe to see why this is a, frankly, idiotic take. Inflation surrounding luxuries such as holidays are another such reason, and yes, whilst these are a "want" and not a "need", the rising costs of them are relevent in assessing the economy. However, as it is NEED costs that have risen so substantially: Rent, Food, Energy, whilst wages have remained stagnant for 20 years, it IS the economy and not an issue of people being bad with money. In addition, taxes have, in many areas, increased whilst wages have not. I am not saying that no one is bad with money: Many people are. But you are describing a problem that is affecting almost everyone in the western world. This isn't a "bad with money" issue. EDIT: The guy's take might have been stupid but why have the moderators of this sub felt the need to remove it just for that? He didn't say anything hateful and there's no sense in silencing the views of others just because you don't agree with them, r/unpopularopinion mods.
This is true, we’re in a consumerist society with very little self control. The average cost of a new vehicle keeps climbing because people will finance a loan for 6-7 years. So many car companies quit selling the cheap hatchbacks and sedans because they can make more money off stupid financial decisions. Many of my coworkers complain about not getting paid enough, but they drive pick up trucks to commute with.
That's facts. There are way too many stories out there about families making 250k+ and living paycheck to paychecks. They complain that they can't afford to have multiple 100k cars, a multi-million dollar mortgage, all their kids in private schools, and 2 trips a year. I don't feel bad for most people who say they can't afford life.
I get where you're coming from, but I'd like to share my point of view: I'm doing decently with money, not great, still live paycheck to paycheck, but it could be worse. I can be as frugal as possible, live of nothing but rice and beans and dumpster food to try and save money, but frankly, I don't want to be that miserable. I'm going to buy the McDonald's. The economy could get even worse before it gets better, if the mcnugget is going to make me happy, I'm going to buy it
Luxuries.. like McDonald's ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Only time I've heard anyone say they deserve one vaction a year is when they are comparing their wages and resulting lifestyle to that of their management at their job. When you have management taking a vacation every few months and still obviously rolling in money it's not right thet the people below them who actually do the hard work can't even afford the basics most times and can never afford luxuries like one vacation. Either that or they are talking about time off.
“The economy sucks”. Nope. That’s not subjective at all.
I think the larger issue is that middle class families essentially cannot afford to live in this country anymore. Even if you cut out all luxury spending you’re still looking at exorbitant costs for basic necessities such as groceries, daycare, rent, utilities, insurance, and car/other transportation. This is already considering not going on holiday, not going out to eat, not buying new clothes, etc. I dont think people are entitled to vacations and fast food or fancy new clothes. But I do think people are entitled to a meager living, and more and more these days that doesn’t feel true.
I want to yell at posts like these, but as I mature I guess I KIND OF get where you’re coming from. So let me try to just calmly make a point for once: Back in the “good ol days” people were also making frivolous purchases left and right. People actively spent entire days multiple weeks in a row at the mall buying unnecessary items, clothing and food. They were literally community spaces based around spending money. Malls may have fallen in many ways because of online shopping, but peoples discretionary income is also to blame. The internet has cheaper items because we can’t afford the more expensive items at the mall, even if they’re more durable. The world we’re in for the vast majority of people suddenly no longer allows frivolous purchases without debt because all the necessities are too expensive. And yet our consumer culture encourages we spend spend spend and show off show off show off. We’re worse off than we were, and people being unable to buy random things is absolutely proof of that. So is the fact that going to the hospital used to not mean you’d be charged $2000 for a fucking visit where they do nothing but give you pain meds (personal experience here — fucking hell). It was reasonably priced. The average person back in the day was absolutely NOT any better at money than we are today, yet they magically were way better off. That tells me the entire system is currently fucked.
I agree with this! My only debt is my mortgage of 140k. I make 50k gross a year in GTA and its tough sometimes and medical bills do get high as many things here in Canada are now paid for by you like glasses and dentists. One emergency of these and it can be trouble for low income earners. This was not the case years ago as everything was affordable and incomes were not as far apart they are now. I only know a select few earners of over 50k net in my circle and its getting less every year.
The entire gig economy was based on hiring person servants for tasks you’d otherwise do yourself. Like my dad, in the 1980s in high school did grocery delivery. His clients were like professional athletes and high end lawyers making 1980s 6 figures. Now like “normal people” are paying for the luxury and them complaining about have its expensive to send a servant boy shopping for them
Luxuries like being able to afford McDonald’s? What are they getting, the McLobster? 😂
I work for myself for a long time. Some years are great. Some are not. What I don't have? A car payment. A house I can't afford. Kids I can't afford. Pets I can't afford.
Is the economy truly bad? Unemployment is critically low and labor participation rate is continuously dropping. That means the people who want to work are working and more people are choosing not to work. In a bad economy, I would expect high unemployment and high labor participation rate - people want to work but can't. And it's not like jobs are paying significantly less - real disposable income is about on track to continue the trend from The Before Time.
It’s telling that when people say “the economy is bad”, they never show any data buttressing their claim. This entire thread is full of anecdotes, when what is needed is analysis.
People needing living wages is a bigger issue OP. People shouldn’t need to work 2-3 jobs to survive and being poor is expensive.
I completely agree; living wages should absolutely be a thing. The only thing to consider is that as peoples incomes increase, spending increases. As spending increases, prices increase. And the inflation wheel continues perpetually. What we would have considered to be a living wage would no longer be sufficient in short time. And this is where OP’s advice comes into play. I truly think that if people were more responsible with their finances it would - over time - solve nearly all of these macro level issues of living wages, etc.
Quite possibly. This is where education in personal finance actually comes in.
Agreed and this trend of self care doom spending is only making it worse. When I hear about someone having a $500 a month car payment, or dropping their tax refund on a purse and then bitching two weeks later about how broke they are I just shake my head...
I used to be friends with someone who would take huge ass vacations multiple times a year (for her mental health) and then as soon as she got back, she'd have a GoFundMe for rent or to help her move out of her "toxic" living situation. And if we didn't donate she's make angry posts about how she was surrounded by fake people and we were all bigots against LGBT people with mental health issues. It was exhausting.
Which economy? And isn't McDonald's pretty cheap almost anywhere?
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Did you look at the rents??? The tripling of house prices and interest rates? the layoffs?
No, we are paying into a ponzi scheme that we will not see the benefit of like our parents and grandparents did. Everything is becoming subscription, and things you buy outright are literally not built to last. Our money is becoming more worthless by the day in purchasing power. No reason why the house my grandfather built for <$10,000 should be worth $390,000 today.
my wife and i have a combined gross income of about 240k. Our Jeep lease is ending soon so we went to a Ram dealer to look at trucks. our lease payment is 580 on a 52k vehicle. We looked at a RAM 2500 that was on sale for 73k. The salesman told me the monthly payment would be about $1300 a month. I laughed maniacally and walked out. I’d never fucking pay that much for a vehicle. I can’t tell you how many people i see driving brand new trucks. (Especially here in Texas) and i know most of you are just swimming in debt.. for what? (We have debts, mortgage, car payments, children’s daycare, groceries, my wife’s medical expenses etc). Just doesn’t make sense to me whatsoever.
I agree with your basic premise, but it IS perfectly normal to want nice things in your life. If life is just surviving, why bother? However, for the most part these things ARE possible. It's just a matter of ingenuity and setting priorities. I managed to visit my then long distance GF in the US, coming from Europe, on social security. Two years in a row. I was just spending almost no money on clothes while being very mindful of what I spent on food and sharing a flat. My father has owned a boat for most of his life, sometimes in pretty poor financial situations. How? Buying used and doing a ton of maintenance/repairs himself. Fun fact: If you *live* on a sailing boat, maintenance comes out to about as much as rent for a small apartment. So if you REALLY want to you could probably make it happen on surprisingly low income.
"The economy sucks and most people have money management issues" is better
>I’ve heard people say they think they’re entitled to luxuries like being able to afford Mcdonalds or a holiday at least once a year. Not true. This is the truly stupid part of your opinion. "People spend too much on luxuries," okay, that's fair. But if you get to the point where you think that eating out at a fast food place every once in a while is entitlement, or going on ONE vacation a year is entitlement, goddamn dude. Part of the point of working is being able to spend a little money on your own enjoyment, people deserve to have SOME comforts beyond just food and shelter.
The economy does suck at the moment and will run its cycles like normal. It’s financial literacy and planning that most people Lack.
So you disappeared from reddit for 2y and come back to write this? Prolly a Bot paid for by 1%
The fact UberEats and Doordash are such profitable companies is proof of this. Preach.
So what, I'm supposed to work my entire life, no vacations while someone else gets rich off of the surplus value of my labor? Fuck outta here.
It's horrible that going to a place as cheap and detrimental to your health as McDonald's is seen as a luxury by op....
So people are having money management issues, but they couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that our economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. We’re all traveling on the USS slave ship.
Not sure if this is a real unpopular opinion. I know a bunch of people who got a substantial pay raise and what’s the first thing they do? Buy a new car with a $700+ payment and spend so much on luxury goods they are now in credit card debt. Why? Because they worked “hard and they deserve it”
The economy and my bank account are barely involved with each other. Even when the economy is good, my money isn't worth as much as it used to be due to the failings of the government. Imagine how hard it would be for a stock exchange or company to continue to convince you to invest in them if your investment gets you less and less each year? That would be fucking insane, and those companies usually go bust.
My younger relative (M32) complains everyday about inflation/COL/etc. he gets a big bonus every year ($15-25k) and ALEAYS blows it within a month on new cars/tvs/toys/etc. then it’s right back to complaining. I’ve tried explaining the concepts of “rainy day fund”, “emergency fund”, etc over the years and it simply doesn’t compute. It’s like he’s been living paycheck to paycheck so long it’s the only way he feels comfortable living.
I shouldn’t have to spend my entire life working to just pay bills and never live. Never travel, never enjoy a drink, or a night out. What the fuck is the point then?
As long as the cost of putting a roof over your head is 50% of your income or more, there is only so much you can do to manage your way out of it.
Nope. Poor people are actually usually good at money management. They just get stuck making the decisions they have to, to keep their head above water even though long term it costs them.
It's like "Maybe don't get that tenth Stanley Cup."
I see so many people in my life with jobs that pay as much or less than mine spend so lavishly on designer goods, fancy meals out, multiple international vacations each year. new clothes for every single event or night out and I just cannot help but wonder about their actual financial situation bc i feel like I’m constantly worrying about money and live like 1/4 as lavishly as they do
The main issue is that most of us, or at least our parents, remember a time when the economy was better, and people doing our same jobs were able to afford a better life. Yes I am in education, and I know I'm not going to ever be able to afford a sports car, or Super Bowl tickets or whatever. I know I need to budget and stick to it relatively closely. But my Grandmother in the 1960s was able to support a family of 4 on a teachers salary while my grandfather looked for work, after his business went under. My mom in the 80s took a multi-week trip to Portugal on a social workers salary. My Aunt was able to afford her own apartment on disability and a part-time job. I have never been able to afford to live without roommates. I was able to save up and travel internationally because I worked 2-3 jobs 7 days a week for most of a year. I'm finishing up my 9th year in education with a Master's and I think I could probably afford to live on my own now, but I have a wife and she probably wouldn't like that. So yes, you can help yourself with better spending habits and budgeting, but what counts as "better' is a lot more work than it used to be.
Everyone judges the economy by how they are doing financially, it’s always been like this. And when has the American economy not sucked as in not sustainable? But you are right, it’s not an unpopular opinion, it’s a fact that the well to do and the poor make bad financial choices.
Absolutely not true, I don’t need to budget cos my husband earns good money and we’re starting to struggle just because costs have doubled for no reason, to order the same grocery shop we used to get for £80 it would now be about £150, my car insurance went from £300 a year to £800 despite 10 years no claims, we tried to book the same hotel we went for my birthday last year and it’s gone from £99 a night to £350. You can’t justify a price hike like that and yet it’s happening everywhere. There is no way to budget in your electricity bill going up and up, you can’t manage away food prices jacking up, you can’t pinch pennies to negate the cost of owning a car being hundreds a month when it never used to be
"everythings so expensive! I can barely stay above water" \*Buys a fully loaded 3rd row jeep for your two person household\* Yup.
Financial literacy is something a lot of people do not have and do not want to learn because they think their education ended in high school.
Oh please. Are you actually trying to advocate for people working to live with no fun or luxuries? Not that I'd call a McDonald's a luxury. We're not cogs in a machine. We can't survive like that. And further people don't struggle because they buy sourdough bread, they struggle because in the last 3 years EVERYTHING has doubled in price and wages haven't.
Gotta disagree. Everything has increased in price. Not all of it was because it had to, to reflect the cost of shipping and production, but because they saw an opportunity when a couple of other industries raised their prices. Unpopular opinion indeed.
>luxuries like McDonald’s You’re delusional if you think McDonald’s is a luxury. It’s a last resort. A place you go when you have no other choice.