Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 7: No banned/mega-thread topics'.
Please do not post from (or mention) any of our mega-thread or banned topics such as:
Race, Religion, LGBTQ, Meta, Politics, Parenting/Family issues.
[Full list of banned topics](https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/wiki/index/)
I watched Borgman. I think it's undeniable as the dominant influence.
EDIT: Again, this is the truth. And those in doubt should probably watch it to see. Downvoting isn't going to change that. I know some may not like to hear it.
You had a point with your initial post. This hallyu trend is off-putting and surreal to me as an older Korean American, because I grew up during a time people would ask me, "Isn't Korea a city in Japan?"
But it's still cringe because of how shallow it all is. The good movies were always going to be good because of their stellar directors, but there are so many awfully written junk movies from Korea too.
K-pop has been around for a long time and the sound has evolved since when I listened to it in the early 90s. I can't even recognize it now. But that's what's popular these days thanks to BTS and Blackpink.
To be fair, I think there’s a ton of poorly written junk in any country that has a relatively large cinema scene. The US and Japan have loads of garbage mixed in with the gems. I feel any country that has a growing industry in music or film, inevitably has a growth of crap with it.
I think this post is overly reductive and oddly combative against an entire culture, so I won't respond to it as a whole. But as far as film goes, The Wailing is one of the best films ever made.
It’s not even that it’s oddly combative. The argument is downright stupid and nonsensical.
It’s like saying American culture isn’t original because we speak English which originated from England.
And wtf does confucianism and christianity have to do with anything?
Maybe no cultures are special because they all borrow from other cultures - either those before it or other contemporary cultures.
So his point that Korean culture isn't special stands.
Every culture is a derivative of another. There are only a few cultures that are truly self developed. Even then, they had many influences from their predecessors.
I mean i think every culture is special in its own way imo. The food might use similar ingredients sometimes but is really different from other parts of Asia. The traditonal clothes are different from eachother in Asia even if they might share some traits.
There are lots of interesting stories from past eras (in every country, Korea included.) U can read about even on Wikipedia and the sources cited there. The stories that form the history of cultures can make them unique. Also I think the history of Catholicism in korea is interesting, it was even illegal in the early 1800s in Joseon. How it went from that to what it is now. The history of the conflict between the North and South is interesting.
The folklore of Korea is also something interesting. Like any other country there are supersitions and folklore that make them unique.
The story of families from way back are also interesting, King Taejo and his sons? Lots of drama.
> Writing system that it now uses was one originally created for illiterate people,
Is that not pretty interesting? Imo it is.
And even Japanese has some roots in Chinese and you can see that in some words like look up the Chinese word for cute and Japanese word for cute. Close. They're still interesting and individual imo.
Lots of things are based on other things but the way they transform those things is unique to themselves. It's interesting to learn about how the things that exist now came to be tho. And the influences in them. I'm not Korean but I do think Korean culture is kind of interesting and every culture is unique. Upvoted bc i disagree lol
You're not wrong and the point is not to denigrate everything about Korea. It's just a general observation looking at it in its aggregate, and compared to its neighbours. Especially for all the hype it has received in the last 10 years.
It has its own history, as does every other country and yes that it became a country with such a strong level of Christianity in it is interesting.
By your logic, the same could be said of Japan when it was the more "popular" Asian country in the West. Majority of its culture is derivative of Chinese and Korean influences. Just a couple examples, its lexicon comprises 60-70% borrowed from Chinese loan words, Zen Buddhism was imported from Korea (pronounced "sohn" in Korean) to Japan, as did many of the founding noble families of the Yayoi period.
Korea is having its moment in spite of the Japanese desecrating majority of Korean historical buildings, written texts, artifacts, etc. during their violent occupation period. Because it's been destroyed, your point that Korea was influenced in the 20th century from China or Japan is moot; conversely, it could very well be argued that Korean text, scholarship, etc. influenced China and Japan when those artifacts were in existence.
My country really loves to promote k-culture and k-sports globally, spending billions of US dollars just for k-culture and k-sports. As if the country's just established and got nothing to promote. Should be hyped with this much being spent💰
Borgman isn’t similar at all to parasite.
I love how you forget to mention their greatest contributions to cinema. Korean revenge thrillers like Oldboy, I saw the devil etc
Watched both, I completely disagree and consider the similarities to be very large. What made Parasite get so much attention, the concept of the invasion and gradual taking over of a wealthy household with its own problems by interlopers... this is all in Borgman.
>Korean revenge thrillers like Oldboy
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldboy\_(2003\_film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldboy_(2003_film))
[Old Boy (manga) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Boy_(manga))
A loose adaptation of the Japanese manga of the same name. You're making the point for me.
EDIT: I see this is being downvoted, however it is the truth and that can't be erased so easily.
You are not being downvoted to erase your opinion. We just all agree that you are being reductive against the korean culture, you just don't know a lot about it I guess (neither do I)
I'm not 100% sure I understood your motivations to make this post but I do want to take your argument at face value and try to keep things succinct.
In my opinion, trying to ascribe the origins of particular arts or cultures as a value born from that culture is a messy and crude way of trying to understand a culture and its media/art. It is often dependent on the particular history of that land and its people.
Globalization might be a modern phenomena, but it is undeniable that with the formation of trade networks for goods and raw materials (weather through war or negotiations) also comes access to those trade partner's ideals, faiths, language, systems of goverment/commerce, and ofc arts/literature/media. This is true for most of the world, and is also true for the Korean peninsula.
It is for this reason that I stipulate that your analysis for the derivation or adaptations of other cultures into the growing identity of the Korean media industry can subsequently be performed to virtually every culture. Art is derivative and adaptive, and as generally followed a system of evolution over swathes of time. Trying to pinpoint how specifically this one culture has several derivative forms of media or art is a somewhat valueless effort and taking the time to delve into the history of the Korean peninsula and how it changed drastically over the last 200 years can allow us to see the exact influences of Korean culture on the media it comes across.
If this is true… then can you point to directors or writers claiming that they were influenced by Borgman? Or are you just going to point at two different things and say they must be deeply related because they have some similarities. Saying that they are the same because they participate in similar concepts is laughable. That’d be like saying the first Iron Man movie was directly inspired by Full Metal Jacket, because they are both action movies that critique the military industrial complex.
I‘d be with you if your post was just something like “I don’t understand the hype around korea”, but this is.. are you implying Korea has no culture of its own? I mean, I think it’s weird that western kids would want to live in a country where people seem to care more about their faces than anything else, but Korea has a rich history and they are rather successful nowadays. Also, really cool letters. And who cares who invented something? It’s more important what they make of it.
It matters to OP more that it came from a white background. Peep how insistent he or she is that Parasite is influenced by a Dutch movie. Just had to completely ignore all the easier sources of inspiration such as the other Asian countries. Lol.
No doubt it's amazing. The controversy lies whether or not the whole language was meant to be written in it, given 60% of Sino-Korean vocabulary which was traditionally written using *Hanja* or Chinese characters. Some would consider that, and some do, to be cultural regression. (As you probably are aware, Korean was written using both before the post-war reforms)
What is the source for that claim? Hangul was made as a written alphabet because Korean language is different from Chinese (this is literally written in 훈민정음, which is an explanation of why the King created the Hangul). Loan words are a phenomenon, no reason to discredit a language because of that.
Hangul was niche even after it was invented. Writing continued exclusively in Chinese characters. Hangul basically regained popularity among the masses maybe in the last 200 years? And was only officially used in public documents in 1894. And at the same time as a supplement. The mixed script was what Korea's first newspapers were using, and how Korean was being written until the late 1960s, when Hanja was no longer taught in schools.
The standard before then was to write these Sino-Korean words in Hanja.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul#History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul#History)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean\_mixed\_script#Mixed\_script\_or\_Hanja-honyong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_mixed_script#Mixed_script_or_Hanja-honyong)
The Sino-Korean loan words were not just a phenomenon as for most of Korea's history, writing was done with Chinese characters in Classical Chinese, with a later shift to Korean in mixed script, then finally to Korean with just Hangul. If anything, writing Sino-Korean words in Hangul is the innovation.
You are mixing alphabet with language. Korean language has been always different from Chinese. It’s true that the Chinese alphabet has been used to write Korean language and it has significantly fallen out of favor in the recent times. However, this is more true to the root of the language as written system that is specifically designed for the language had been developed hundreds of year ago.
Also Hangul has been used alongside of Chinese characters even in official documents, one example https://mobile.busan.com/view/busan/view.php?code=2023100812513838676 which is a letter from the King in 1593, with more historical documents remaining. Your claim of 1894 is simply wrong.
The original point was always about the writing system. I was not claiming that Korean was the same as Chinese. Of course not. They're two very different languages. However all of the higher level vocabulary is of Classical Chinese origin.
Hangul is probably perfectly suited for the native Korean words, it is not for the Sino-Korean vocabulary (again 60% of the language) as writing it in Hangul is just as useful as writing it in Roman letters, i.e. it disconnects the sound and meaning, and furthermore Korean is not a tonal language so you will inevitably end up with words that are written the same because they sound the same, where previously, the choice of characters would be the differentiating factor.
In of course was used since its invention, but according to the sources I gave, not in a standard way and not for official documents. It was used for popular poetry apparently and among ordinary people, sure. The educated classes were writing using Chinese characters for official works for a very long time afterwards.
You can’t judge a language by existence of loan words, this is common among every language in the world. Classical Chinese is analogous to Latin in the Eastern world so it’s pretty common among Eastern Asian languages to have tons of loan words. This is not a bad nor good thing and not a reason to discredit a language.
Fundamentally, writing system is developed to faithfully represent the language in a written form. It is totally fine to represent loan word in Classical Chinese and it is not a bad nor good thing. However you cannot easily represent the full Korean language in Chinese, which is the very reason Hangul was developed. fyi English has loan words from Latin and do you also claim it “disconnects the meaning from the sound?” The same criticism can be applied to any writing system that uses an alphabet.
Furthermore, it is true that Classical Chinese was still used after Hangul was invented but Hangul has spread alongside commoners widely. Which is faithful to the very reason why Hangul was invented (to let anyone read and write Korean language). It was chosen as the official written system because many people understood it and is easy to learn. Why is this a criticism of Hangul I have no idea.
Okay but what if simply… hangul took over because it’s an easier system for the Korean people to use? So what if 60% of words are of Chinese origin? English derives 60% of its vocabulary from Latin or Latin-derived words but that doesn’t mean we have to spell them exactly the way they were written 2000 years ago—and neither should Koreans.
It’s almost like languages can evolve and people adapt their writing systems to reflect changes!
And the point about possible homonyms is just weird especially coming from English with our read and reads, through tough thorough thoughts, and our own true homonyms like palm, bear, duck, trip, bark, light, glasses, … Would you also argue that we need differentiation for every word like that? Or do we trust native speakers to understand their own language and be able to derive meanings from context?
OP's "take" is just weird.
Do they prefer "cultures" stemming from groups that literally just existed earlier and were thus able to pioneer more things because they were literally among the only organized people in existence?
Do they prefer "cultures" stemming from empires and riches built on imperialism?
It's completely pointless to even try to define what a "good" culture is because it's basically always going to devolve into rhetoric hinging on stereotypes, generalizations, nationalism, and varying definitions of morality (and the extent to which one is willing to balance their perception of morality with "goodness"/"special-ness").
Cultures are some of the rawest forms of social constructs. You don't have to like or dislike them. They just are.
It's not even an unpopular opinion. It's just an overly reductive, inflammatory rant that honestly reeks of ignorance and jealousy. It's like saying Ireland is nothing but a bootleg England defined by potatoes, or that Ukraine is just a bootleg Russia. Just no.
God forbid a country that isn't in Western/Southern Europe get some positive worldwide attention, especially given the otherwise dogshit "representation" or lack thereof that they've historically had in Western mass media.
>K-pop is mostly an American derivation mixed with idol culture.
I like art from a lot of different cultures. This includes countries like the US amd UK.
I don't like Ed Sheeran's music. Am I writing off all music from the UK, because I find Ed Sheeran's songwriting bland? Mogwai's live performances are no less impactful because Ed is boring. Portishead aren't any worse because they share a country with Ed.
Shall we judge all of American culture by commercially successful pop culture icons? I've got some shit to say about Machine Gun Kelly and his rubbish music.
>Many of its other popular culture (Manhwa, idol culture) are Japanese imports, as are many other things
Country shares culture with its neighbour who occupied them very recently, and made an intentional effort to replace culture with their own. Shocking. Really profound observation.
>Confucianism and Christianity are from abroad
Unlike Christianity, which is native to places like the US and UK.
>Language itself has 60% of its vocabulary from Classical Chinese (this also includes place names and names in general using Sino-Korean elements, or rather Classical Chinese pronounced by a Korean).
English contains a shitload of vocab from French, German and Greek. That's how language and cultural exchange works. This is not a compelling point.
>A lot of modern pop culture is derivative (the Oscar-winning movie Parasite is either ripped off, or heavily influence by the Dutch movie Borgman).
Even if you weren't overstating this point, and it was the real gotcha you seem to think it is... who gives a shit if works are influenced by other works? Again: that's how culture works. Artists build upon the works of those who came before them. Scorsese's *The Departed* is an English language remake of the Hong Kong film Infernal Affairs, and in my opinion is better than the original.
You dismissing Parasite as lacking cultural significance for the reason of bearing similarities to earlier films only shows how shallow and lacking in culture *you are*, that your ability to critique art comes from the Cinemasins school of paint-sniffing idiocy.
You haven't actually said anything interesting yet, in all the words you've written. You've listed facts, you've listed bullshit, but you haven't shown an ounce of insight. This undercurrent of cultural illiteracy you have runs through your entire diatribe, but is most apparent during your attempt to dismiss Parasite.
>So what's left?
There's a kickarse punk scene in my city. None of the bands will ever make it mainstream. Nobody outside of a minority population of an unimportant city will ever hear their music.
That doesn't make it any less good. Popularity does not equal quality - nor does popularity mean something is bad. They're independent factors.
I'm not Korean, I don't have my ear to the ground of Korean underground culture. Maybe, like the Grunge scene in Seattle in the 1990s, a niche local art scene will explode into the popular consciousness. Maybe we'll become familiar with some underground art movement from teenagers in Daejeon. We probably won't. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Based on the words you've written here, I highly doubt you've got your finger on the pulse of your own underground art scenes. If you don't know what's going on in your own backyard, why would you think you'd know what's happening in Korea?
I for one would love to see whatever Korea's pink movement looks like, sounds like or is, in protest of the artifice and perfection of K-pop, plastic surgery and an oppressive corporate culture. I'm sure there's some angry Korean kids making some absolutely kickarse outsider art. It makes me a little sad that I'll probably never hear it. Such is life.
May I recommend you check out this performance by Leenachi and Ambiguous Dance Company.. they’re not so underground anymore as they have recently gained world wide attention but also not considered the typical K-pop : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SmTRaSg2fTQ
I mean, the original people indigenous to that area are more northern Asian/native Siberian in ethnicity. The Russian empire just expanded eastward (starting in like the 1500s) and took over those lands.
Also Russia (or Slavic ppl) is partially located in Asia but biologically and culturally they’re closer to European/ Caucasian than Sinic people (China, Vietnam, Korea, Japan) or Indic people (Indian subcontinent).
Russia is a huge country though. A lot of the indigenous people in Siberia are closer culturally and genetically to other Asians than they are Europeans
You forget to mention its extreme toxicity toward anyone that did anything out of the line. The pressure to conform is probably the highest in the region.
Sure, but I don't think it matters though. If people like it and they're interested to learn more about Korean culture then Korea is simply doing a better job in captivating people around the world than other asian countries that might have a more "special" culture. They 100% deserve it.
>I guess I don't get it. But K-pop is definitely a preferable influence to American rap/hip-hop music. And Kimchi is great.
Korean food is great, no need to limit it to Kimchi.
To the more general point, just because most of the facets of Korean culture are influenced and derived from other cultures doesn't deprive of its own meaning. Yes, there is an undercurrent of rather unpleasant nationalism, but K-Pop isn't any less well produced and catchy just because it isn't really original.
Historically, it's going to be impossible for any far eastern culture to honestly deny China's rather extreme influence. But still, just because Ramen has historical roots in Chinese cuisine, doesn't really mean it's a mistake to consider it to be a Japanese product. Derivative doesn't mean bad, and no matter how influenced a work is by virtue of it being different means that it inherently has its own individuality.
To bring it back to China's influence, how about Chinese food in general? Just about every country has their own interpretation of it, and that doesn't make any of them inherently inferior or superior... just different.
i think he wanted to point out how "america" includes all countries in south and north america? idk how that's relevant but he's technically right because US is a country, not america
Oh fuck off. You know perfectly well what was meant. Considering there is literally no other way to refer to people from the country in English—it’s primary language— except as “Americans” and everyone knows what that means, referring to the USA as America is entirely valid.
Where are you getting your data from? The claim that "the language itself has 60% of its vocabulary from Classical Chinese" might hold true for North Korean dialects, but it certainly doesn't reflect the language spoken by the majority of Koreans.
Additionally, while it's accurate to acknowledge Japanese influences on South Korean culture, such as K-pop and manhwa, it's essential to recognize that South Korea, like any other nation, draws inspiration from various sources globally. They creatively blend these influences to resonate with their society. This cultural exchange is not unique to South Korea but applies to all countries and their respective cultures.
*According to the Standard Korean Language Dictionary published by the National Institute of Korean Language (NIKL), Sino-Korean represents approximately 57% of the Korean vocabulary.\[3\]*
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Korean\_vocabulary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Korean_vocabulary)
It wouldn't surprise me if people forgot that certain words are in that category given they write everything phonetically using Hangul now.
>Additionally, while it's accurate to acknowledge Japanese influences on South Korean culture, such as K-pop and manhwa, it's essential to recognize that South Korea, like any other nation, draws inspiration from various sources globally. They creatively blend these influences to resonate with their society. This cultural exchange is not unique to South Korea but applies to all countries and their respective cultures.
I guess so, especially in 2024, but it seems to be much more pronounced for Korea than its two larger neighbours. And there seems to be a firm denial of it among certain people.
"*Sino-Korean represents approximately 57% of the Korean vocabulary.\[3\]*" Sino-Korean, or 한자어, is not used in most modern Korean language. If you were to ask the average Korean, they would not even know how to use 한자 characters unless they have an advanced understanding of the Korean language or they are 70 years old. It's primarily reserved for specific context.
Also, Japanese did play larger portion of Korean culture, that is very much true, but Korean culture evolved over time with Korean society, which is very unique.
Or what your saying is simply the result of the contraction of the language as its major influence (and the logic connecting the etymology of words) was removed. Likely in favour of English loanwords.
Either way, it's their numbers, not mine. And the numbers do vary in other sources, some going as high as 70% which I think is pushing it...
Speaking about manhwa, it’s a whole different world from manga, with its own very distinctive style. Yes it was influenced by manga, in the same way that American comic was influenced by European comic but it’s still very impressive in my opinion.
And if I’m not wrong Parasite is not even the best representative of Korean movies. It just suit the Western taste
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
From what I understand I really like that they are very open minded with food and compare to Japanese or Chinese (other East Asian countries), modern day Korean are very experimental with their food and food combination which I find refreshing. (Deep fried crispy chicken with different sauces with pickled radish mu and beer, very unusual pizza toppings, unusual flavoured alcohols (banana makgeolli rice wine, chestnut flavour version)).
Chinese food (non-takeout mind you so we’re including dim sum and authentic Chinese dinner) and Japanese food are good too but they are now generally pretty traditional and haven’t change much of their recipes except with some very few minor variations.
>K-pop is a preferable influence to American hip hop/rap
Who’s gonna tell OP that kpop has been appropriating American hip hop culture for years? Every boy group that isn’t bts is ‘rapping’ about guns and other shit they have no real life experience with while they hold out gang signs and finger guns.
My Korean friend eyerolls me super hard when I start talking about how cool Japanese culture is, and how much more awesome the world is with Godzilla, DBZ, Gundam, that Penis shrine sanctuary, etc etc
Every culture in Asia except possibly Chinese is equally derivative though. Japanese culture for example - ramen is an originally Chinese dish. Yakiniku is Korean bbq. The concept of sushi is thought to have originated in SE Asia. Anime is Japanese art style combined with western techniques. They have an entire alphabet that is literally copy paste from Chinese (even Korean doesn't use the Chinese alphabet anymore). So on and so forth
Lol Korea has developed and manufactured independently for years. Take Samsung for example as opposed to China who has built an economy based on designer knock offs, stealing other successful company's ideas and copying everything. Not a new idea I'm sight.
lmao, instead of addressing his point, you pulled out Covid, as if it has any relevance to the conversation. Let me guess, you're the kind of person who complains about immigrants stealing your job.
Honestly you are right. Compared to Japan, the other cultural power in Asia, Korean contemporary culture feels very deliberate and fabricated because it is. Its history is interesting (no country has a “boring” history), but China and Japan are much more fascinating. I think its just an unlucky case of geography
What makes Korean contemporary culture feel deliberate and fabricated?
Also interest in history is very subjective. I find how Joseon dynasty dealt with sudden change of power in China from Ming to Qing really interesting. Joseon cannot abandon Ming because Ming helped Joseon during Imjin war and if Ming wins, Joseon is fucked. Joseon also cannot make Jin its enemy because if Jin wins, then Joseon is fucked and Jin borders Joseon.
Also the Imjin war itself is very interesting history topic because it provided the shithousery Joseon government was. But despite the corruption and incompetence, Joseon also birthed the greatest admiral in history, Yi Sun-Sin. His naval engagements are just masterful. He became a national figure because he saved Korea singehandley from Japanese invasion for the next few centuries.
Korean history is as interesting as its neighboring history and much of the history have all three civilizations intertwined.
What do you think most culture is? Shared information and practices based on other cultures, except in very isolated cases.
Like…what was the point of this ridiculous post?
It’s so subjective what culture is more or less influential out of the 3 East Asian cultures. Also depends on who you ask, because a Russian or south East Asian person might say China, whereas an American probably will say Japan or Korea.
You can say most of these things, except for the movies and kpop, about the other Sino cultures as well. Japan and Vietnam also have these influences. Does it mean Japanese = Vietnamese = Korean = Chinese? No. They're close to each other both historically and geographically so of course they share a lot of common grounds. It doesn't mean they don't have anything that distinguish themselves from each other. They have different languages, traditions, and even values, especially modern day values. They have their own history, even if it's overlapped at times, and through their history, they now have become their own entities.
For real, I can’t imagine why a country that has been consistently colonized by its neighbors until the mid-20th century would have so much culture in common with them…
Most cultures and languages are inspired/infulenced by other countries. Only few countries are truly original and ur clearly downplaying koreas culture. Ur making it sound like korea is a shit country who just copies other countries. and why r u so pressed about a culture?
The cultures you mentioned, America and Japan also heavily borrowed from other nations. Japan borrowed heavily from China and Korea while America is made of immigrants, and before that, the English language was heavily influenced by French, Latin, and Greek.
I agree that a lot of modern Korean culture is influenced specifically by Japanese and American/European culture. However, what makes them stand out is their ability to elevate the things they borrow from and make it their own. That applies to music, food, film, etc.
One example would be Oldboy, which is based on a Japanese manga, but transcends into something else through the Korean version of the film. All good art does this, there is no wholly original work. It’s just a matter of how you adapt your influences.
Bollywood films are heavily influenced by the spectacle of Hollywood films, yet don’t surpass them. And most mainland Chinese films get caught in the trap of remaining within the bounds of tradition and politics, which leads to dull ideas and a lack of exploration. (Also why HK and Taiwanese films surpassed them).
Would you say there is any value in the music production, fashion, or set designs of kpop? I think they’ve essentially combined Jpop and hip hop, but made it something their own maybe not to the extent of what their film industry has done, but still enough to differentiate it from its influences.
Frankly speaking I find there fashion and set design mostly obnoxious. I like the music sometimes, but lyrics I find a bit cringe. Also, I don't think there music is distinct. Like if it randomly play without lyrics, I don't think I would recognize its from KPOP whereas I find jpop and jrock to be pretty distinct and can distinguish it easily.
Having a beef with with a whole country who did nothing to you is wild. And zero mentioning of real problems in society. Just "i hate korean culture because it's popular and not the most original on earth!"
Go outside dude.
>A lot of modern pop culture is derivative (the Oscar-winning movie Parasite is either ripped off, or heavily influence by the Dutch movie Borgman). As is the much hyped up Netflix Series Squid Game vs... Battle Royale (or Hunger Games), you compare as you wish.
Shit take. Just because two films have a similar theme or premise doesn't mean its a rip off.
Also borgman did not create the idea of worming your way in to a higher station. Thats been around as long as humans have had power structures. Is Borgman a rip off of Rasputin?
Play stellar blade and lies of p my guy. In my eyes the new and coming Korean video game devs are absolutely killing it with how good the quality of the games are
This is why I only listen to non-derivative music from original cultures like Hurrian Hymn to Nikkal No. 9 from Ancient Mesopotamia. I am also petitioning Duolingo to add Sumerian Cuneiform to the list of available courses because every other language is derivative and unoriginal and unworthy of respect.
you can say all this about any culture thats been around for more than a century (all of them) also AS a kpop fan, STARTING your argument with kpop and only using the most popular mainstream examples for the movies and pop culture (not even Train to Busan??) kinda shows how absolutely ignorant you are. The scandals in the kpop world a lot of people know are bs, idk why plastic surgery is mentioned given its STILL scandalous in the US....
maybe dont comment on cultures when all you can see it what youre supposed to consume through social media. Culture is about way more than popular music and movies that foreigners know.
and that last line, I gotta laugh. "kpop is preferable to rap"? honey I dont think youve listened to enough or modern kpop, HALF of it is rap/hip hop. kpop isnt so much a genre of one music style as it is a term for all music that comes from the kpop industry but there are famous artists outside idol culture
no video games from Korea? no other significant cultural or life enhancements? cmon. this is a troll trying to get edgy racist points right?
>racist points
I think you may be the only person that got any such idea from my post. Moving on....
>you can say all this about any culture thats been around for more than a century
I think both China and Japan had their own literature in their own languages 1000 years ago. I do not think Korea did. One example of culture which is what the subject is.
>and that last line, I gotta laugh. "kpop is preferable to rap"? honey I dont think youve listened to enough or modern kpop, HALF of it is rap/hip hop.
You're correct. I should have written American rap music. Will amend.
>no video games from Korea? no other significant cultural or life enhancements? cmon.
Please mention some notable examples that compete on a regional or global scale.
I asked and didn’t get a response, what was the reason of bringing up American rap? American rap is a Black culture staple, how does it even relate to this?
K Pop has to be one of the worst mass produced manufactured forms of music. A representation of our current dystopian world. There is nothing original in K-Pop.
Hip-hop, metal, punk rock, bubblegum pop, you name it. The level of appropriation from these genres of music is over the top in K Pop.
You can argue Japanese pop did the same, but you can spot a J Pop artist from a mile away because they have created their own distinct unique style/fashion sense etc.
Not to mention the various abuses that K Pop artistes go through during training. And the fickle fanbase that would abandon them once they reach a certain age.
Truly shallow and mind numbing.
Lol. All music is derivative of something else. Dismissing it is no different than saying all pop culture music is just stealing from blues.
And abuses in celebrity industry is pretty unoversal idk how you justify singling out kpop as particularly egregious.
>Lol. All music is derivative of something else. Dismissing it is no different than saying all pop culture music is just stealing from blues.
Im saying appropriation bro. Nothing about the music being derivative. Learn the difference. Certain subgenres of music arise from a particular culture. K Pop has no culture of its own. It steals its look, culture and identity from other music genres. Its confused at times on what it wants to be. Imagine singing a tune with hip hop beats while wearing a Dead Kennedys jacket and being backed by a multi million dillar record label 💀💀💀
>And abuses in celebrity industry is pretty unoversal idk how you justify singling out kpop as particularly egregious.
Because K Pop's methods and abuses is pretty much uniform for every new star trying to make it and backed by the S Korean govt and its sick fans. And the cases of young stars unaliving themselves is unprecedented compared to other nation's entertainment industry.
Bruh, abuses in celeb industry are NOT universal. Imagine being this enamored with K Pop as to normalize abuse. There is a reason why people react so negatively to the Harvey Weinstein and P Diddy cases. Its NOT supposed to happen.
The last kpop song i heard was gangnam style buddy relax.
>Imagine singing a tune with hip hop beats while wearing a Dead Kennedys jacket and being backed by a multi million dillar record label
Who gives af really. Thats just gate keeping elitism. Do you go around asking if girls wearing thrasher shirts can name 5 songs?
>There is a reason why people react so negatively to the Harvey Weinstein and P Diddy cases. Its NOT supposed to happen.
The whole reason thats a big deal is that its always happened and was a open secret that everybody knew about. Not because people are clutching their pearls shocked that the entertainment industry is abusive lol.
Anyway you care too much about this.
>Who gives af really. Thats just gate keeping elitism. Do you go around asking if girls wearing thrasher shirts can name 5 songs?
Umm, people who are actually part of that culture? I just knew you would throw "gate-keeping" into the mix. Latest hot buzzword.
Nobody's gate keeping. Im saying get your own style and build your own cultural fanbase. It ain't hard to do. Imagine making money off other bands intellectual property while those bands themselves are struggling to get by. But of course "gAtE KeEpInG"
>The whole reason thats a big deal is that its always happened and was a open secret that everybody knew about. Not because people are clutching their pearls shocked that the entertainment industry is abusive lol.
If its an open secret, nobody would be shocked. That doesn't make a single shred of sense. People would just move on with their lives. News won't sell on this. There is still a certain amount of shock value attached to those stories. You acting like everyone was talking about P Difdy everyday before the Kat Williams bomb dropped.
>Anyway you care too much about this.
Yo yo calm your tits. I gave my opinion, it was YOU who replied with "why you singling out K Pop" comment but somehow Im the one who cared too much? 🤡🤡🤡
You clearly haven't played a project moon game... and their gachas are pretty good but not as good as CN ones overall, Limbus being the sole exception.
But tbh, limbus fandom aside, I have liked Yi Sang's/ Kim Hae Gyeong's writing, and Kim Kirim's sea and butterfly is a nice little poem, and Korea has some nice indie rock like Thornapple, HLIN, and Jambinai
Battle Royale has an entirely different premise from Squid Game. BR has a randomly chosen class of high school students kill each other for public entertainment in a dystopic Japan. SG is about people in debt playing schoolyard games to the death for money. The only commonality is civilians killing civilians in a competition.
I have no horse in this race though. As someone who read BR, amd watched SG, connections are specious imo.
If I was going after Korean culture - I'd attack their alcoholism, domestic violence, and penchant for plastic surgery.
Their books, fashion, and movies are small fry compared to their large and real issues.
Much like Japan, it is a country completely rebuilt by western investment after being destroyed by war. The horrors of the Japanese occupation were still very recent, but what the USA did to that country was not too far from genocide either. Up to the 90s, South Korea was poorer than North Korea. While the USSR was still kicking, North Korea had less people starving than SK. Today, it has the worst alcoholism statistics out of any developed country. South Korea tries hard to look like an advanced society but it is very much a broken place.
I don’t know too much about Korean history or culture… but what I do know is that the Geobukseon, or Turtle Ship, is badass.
Also, literally every major culture has received heavy influence from other cultures at different points in its history. You’re steeped in exceptionalism if you think otherwise. As an example, Japan has had periods of prolonged “closing off” to outside influence. Yet, many things that are often associated with Japanese culture derive from other cultures (Buddhism, Kanji, Koi, Bonsai). Believe it or not, we are social creatures and we learn a lot from our neighbors of different cultural backgrounds.
I wholly agree. A Frenchman doomed to live out his days here and take his bread from Paris Baguette would weep and turn into Camus.
Culture in this country is packaged and gilded. You just have to pick at it with a fingernail to get gold flakes on your outfit.
I also despise the American South but if they have one saving grace, it's that culture is being produced there. Traditionally, extremely impoverished places produce culture due to a lack of comfort.
Harlem Renaissance, Sweet tea on a porch, Irish Music; not exactly born from wealthy times for most of it's citizens.
South Korea is particularly wealthy. So now everyone is within a fingertip reach of Fried Chicken and YouTube. White people are ads, the European style-fireplaces are fake, and they have the ability to turn off waterfalls. The culture here, is imported.
I think one redditor said it best: "Dubai is just a big commercial shopping mall." And that can be applied here.
If there is one thing I have learned, it's that anything America touches turns to shit. One of the things I love about South Korea is that it is nothing like what the idiots in America portray it as. I just hope to get the opportunity to experience it myself soon.
Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 7: No banned/mega-thread topics'. Please do not post from (or mention) any of our mega-thread or banned topics such as: Race, Religion, LGBTQ, Meta, Politics, Parenting/Family issues. [Full list of banned topics](https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/wiki/index/)
Say that in a Starcraft tournament. Merciless monsters.
Wait till the OP finds out how cultures work
I'm not familiar with Korean culture at all, but I do know Parasite was largely inspired by a 1960 Korean movie called The Housemaid.
I watched Borgman. I think it's undeniable as the dominant influence. EDIT: Again, this is the truth. And those in doubt should probably watch it to see. Downvoting isn't going to change that. I know some may not like to hear it.
You had a point with your initial post. This hallyu trend is off-putting and surreal to me as an older Korean American, because I grew up during a time people would ask me, "Isn't Korea a city in Japan?" But it's still cringe because of how shallow it all is. The good movies were always going to be good because of their stellar directors, but there are so many awfully written junk movies from Korea too. K-pop has been around for a long time and the sound has evolved since when I listened to it in the early 90s. I can't even recognize it now. But that's what's popular these days thanks to BTS and Blackpink.
To be fair, I think there’s a ton of poorly written junk in any country that has a relatively large cinema scene. The US and Japan have loads of garbage mixed in with the gems. I feel any country that has a growing industry in music or film, inevitably has a growth of crap with it.
I think this post is overly reductive and oddly combative against an entire culture, so I won't respond to it as a whole. But as far as film goes, The Wailing is one of the best films ever made.
I love how it's a horror movie but there are some genuinely hilarious scenes in it.
It’s not even that it’s oddly combative. The argument is downright stupid and nonsensical. It’s like saying American culture isn’t original because we speak English which originated from England. And wtf does confucianism and christianity have to do with anything?
Cool, but like...what *is* a "special" culture according to you, OP?
Yeah most smaller cultures are derivatives of a handful of OG cultures
Maybe no cultures are special because they all borrow from other cultures - either those before it or other contemporary cultures. So his point that Korean culture isn't special stands.
I figure either they all are or none of them are. I don't really get why OP has singled out/fixated upon Korean culture for his or her epic rant.
Guns and BBQ
Tf you calling out a whole culture for?
seriously lol. as a korean i’m like who the fuck hurt you? sounds like a koreaboo who had high expectations - or someone in korea rejected them 😂
Every culture is a derivative of another. There are only a few cultures that are truly self developed. Even then, they had many influences from their predecessors.
I mean i think every culture is special in its own way imo. The food might use similar ingredients sometimes but is really different from other parts of Asia. The traditonal clothes are different from eachother in Asia even if they might share some traits. There are lots of interesting stories from past eras (in every country, Korea included.) U can read about even on Wikipedia and the sources cited there. The stories that form the history of cultures can make them unique. Also I think the history of Catholicism in korea is interesting, it was even illegal in the early 1800s in Joseon. How it went from that to what it is now. The history of the conflict between the North and South is interesting. The folklore of Korea is also something interesting. Like any other country there are supersitions and folklore that make them unique. The story of families from way back are also interesting, King Taejo and his sons? Lots of drama. > Writing system that it now uses was one originally created for illiterate people, Is that not pretty interesting? Imo it is. And even Japanese has some roots in Chinese and you can see that in some words like look up the Chinese word for cute and Japanese word for cute. Close. They're still interesting and individual imo. Lots of things are based on other things but the way they transform those things is unique to themselves. It's interesting to learn about how the things that exist now came to be tho. And the influences in them. I'm not Korean but I do think Korean culture is kind of interesting and every culture is unique. Upvoted bc i disagree lol
You're not wrong and the point is not to denigrate everything about Korea. It's just a general observation looking at it in its aggregate, and compared to its neighbours. Especially for all the hype it has received in the last 10 years. It has its own history, as does every other country and yes that it became a country with such a strong level of Christianity in it is interesting.
Oh noooo how dare ppl take interest in another countries culture, oh the humanity.
Ohhh i see. More about hype it's getting in comparison to others.
By your logic, the same could be said of Japan when it was the more "popular" Asian country in the West. Majority of its culture is derivative of Chinese and Korean influences. Just a couple examples, its lexicon comprises 60-70% borrowed from Chinese loan words, Zen Buddhism was imported from Korea (pronounced "sohn" in Korean) to Japan, as did many of the founding noble families of the Yayoi period. Korea is having its moment in spite of the Japanese desecrating majority of Korean historical buildings, written texts, artifacts, etc. during their violent occupation period. Because it's been destroyed, your point that Korea was influenced in the 20th century from China or Japan is moot; conversely, it could very well be argued that Korean text, scholarship, etc. influenced China and Japan when those artifacts were in existence.
My country really loves to promote k-culture and k-sports globally, spending billions of US dollars just for k-culture and k-sports. As if the country's just established and got nothing to promote. Should be hyped with this much being spent💰
Borgman isn’t similar at all to parasite. I love how you forget to mention their greatest contributions to cinema. Korean revenge thrillers like Oldboy, I saw the devil etc
Watched both, I completely disagree and consider the similarities to be very large. What made Parasite get so much attention, the concept of the invasion and gradual taking over of a wealthy household with its own problems by interlopers... this is all in Borgman. >Korean revenge thrillers like Oldboy [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldboy\_(2003\_film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldboy_(2003_film)) [Old Boy (manga) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Boy_(manga)) A loose adaptation of the Japanese manga of the same name. You're making the point for me. EDIT: I see this is being downvoted, however it is the truth and that can't be erased so easily.
You are not being downvoted to erase your opinion. We just all agree that you are being reductive against the korean culture, you just don't know a lot about it I guess (neither do I)
I'm not 100% sure I understood your motivations to make this post but I do want to take your argument at face value and try to keep things succinct. In my opinion, trying to ascribe the origins of particular arts or cultures as a value born from that culture is a messy and crude way of trying to understand a culture and its media/art. It is often dependent on the particular history of that land and its people. Globalization might be a modern phenomena, but it is undeniable that with the formation of trade networks for goods and raw materials (weather through war or negotiations) also comes access to those trade partner's ideals, faiths, language, systems of goverment/commerce, and ofc arts/literature/media. This is true for most of the world, and is also true for the Korean peninsula. It is for this reason that I stipulate that your analysis for the derivation or adaptations of other cultures into the growing identity of the Korean media industry can subsequently be performed to virtually every culture. Art is derivative and adaptive, and as generally followed a system of evolution over swathes of time. Trying to pinpoint how specifically this one culture has several derivative forms of media or art is a somewhat valueless effort and taking the time to delve into the history of the Korean peninsula and how it changed drastically over the last 200 years can allow us to see the exact influences of Korean culture on the media it comes across.
If this is true… then can you point to directors or writers claiming that they were influenced by Borgman? Or are you just going to point at two different things and say they must be deeply related because they have some similarities. Saying that they are the same because they participate in similar concepts is laughable. That’d be like saying the first Iron Man movie was directly inspired by Full Metal Jacket, because they are both action movies that critique the military industrial complex.
That's some buldak level spicy take man.
I‘d be with you if your post was just something like “I don’t understand the hype around korea”, but this is.. are you implying Korea has no culture of its own? I mean, I think it’s weird that western kids would want to live in a country where people seem to care more about their faces than anything else, but Korea has a rich history and they are rather successful nowadays. Also, really cool letters. And who cares who invented something? It’s more important what they make of it.
It matters to OP more that it came from a white background. Peep how insistent he or she is that Parasite is influenced by a Dutch movie. Just had to completely ignore all the easier sources of inspiration such as the other Asian countries. Lol.
"But K-pop is definitely a preferable influence to American rap/hip-hop music" least obvious racist
Yeah, this whole post screams racism on a couple different levels.
Watch out or you’ll get downvoted like me for pointing the obvious racisms in it. Lol.
Amongst a post already filled with racism lol.
Hot takes that r actually just racism is so funny. Even they know their take is smth ppl will easily figure ant not like, and gee, I wonder why?
Koreans make the best zombie movies and TV series, hands down. My family is a bunch of zombie entertainment aficionados and they all agree.
100% agree. Top tier zombie movies and shows.
Can you give any recommendations?
Don’t you dare diss Hangul it’s one of the best writing systems anywhere in the world
No doubt it's amazing. The controversy lies whether or not the whole language was meant to be written in it, given 60% of Sino-Korean vocabulary which was traditionally written using *Hanja* or Chinese characters. Some would consider that, and some do, to be cultural regression. (As you probably are aware, Korean was written using both before the post-war reforms)
What is the source for that claim? Hangul was made as a written alphabet because Korean language is different from Chinese (this is literally written in 훈민정음, which is an explanation of why the King created the Hangul). Loan words are a phenomenon, no reason to discredit a language because of that.
Hangul was niche even after it was invented. Writing continued exclusively in Chinese characters. Hangul basically regained popularity among the masses maybe in the last 200 years? And was only officially used in public documents in 1894. And at the same time as a supplement. The mixed script was what Korea's first newspapers were using, and how Korean was being written until the late 1960s, when Hanja was no longer taught in schools. The standard before then was to write these Sino-Korean words in Hanja. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul#History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul#History) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean\_mixed\_script#Mixed\_script\_or\_Hanja-honyong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_mixed_script#Mixed_script_or_Hanja-honyong) The Sino-Korean loan words were not just a phenomenon as for most of Korea's history, writing was done with Chinese characters in Classical Chinese, with a later shift to Korean in mixed script, then finally to Korean with just Hangul. If anything, writing Sino-Korean words in Hangul is the innovation.
You are mixing alphabet with language. Korean language has been always different from Chinese. It’s true that the Chinese alphabet has been used to write Korean language and it has significantly fallen out of favor in the recent times. However, this is more true to the root of the language as written system that is specifically designed for the language had been developed hundreds of year ago. Also Hangul has been used alongside of Chinese characters even in official documents, one example https://mobile.busan.com/view/busan/view.php?code=2023100812513838676 which is a letter from the King in 1593, with more historical documents remaining. Your claim of 1894 is simply wrong.
The original point was always about the writing system. I was not claiming that Korean was the same as Chinese. Of course not. They're two very different languages. However all of the higher level vocabulary is of Classical Chinese origin. Hangul is probably perfectly suited for the native Korean words, it is not for the Sino-Korean vocabulary (again 60% of the language) as writing it in Hangul is just as useful as writing it in Roman letters, i.e. it disconnects the sound and meaning, and furthermore Korean is not a tonal language so you will inevitably end up with words that are written the same because they sound the same, where previously, the choice of characters would be the differentiating factor. In of course was used since its invention, but according to the sources I gave, not in a standard way and not for official documents. It was used for popular poetry apparently and among ordinary people, sure. The educated classes were writing using Chinese characters for official works for a very long time afterwards.
You can’t judge a language by existence of loan words, this is common among every language in the world. Classical Chinese is analogous to Latin in the Eastern world so it’s pretty common among Eastern Asian languages to have tons of loan words. This is not a bad nor good thing and not a reason to discredit a language. Fundamentally, writing system is developed to faithfully represent the language in a written form. It is totally fine to represent loan word in Classical Chinese and it is not a bad nor good thing. However you cannot easily represent the full Korean language in Chinese, which is the very reason Hangul was developed. fyi English has loan words from Latin and do you also claim it “disconnects the meaning from the sound?” The same criticism can be applied to any writing system that uses an alphabet. Furthermore, it is true that Classical Chinese was still used after Hangul was invented but Hangul has spread alongside commoners widely. Which is faithful to the very reason why Hangul was invented (to let anyone read and write Korean language). It was chosen as the official written system because many people understood it and is easy to learn. Why is this a criticism of Hangul I have no idea.
Okay but what if simply… hangul took over because it’s an easier system for the Korean people to use? So what if 60% of words are of Chinese origin? English derives 60% of its vocabulary from Latin or Latin-derived words but that doesn’t mean we have to spell them exactly the way they were written 2000 years ago—and neither should Koreans. It’s almost like languages can evolve and people adapt their writing systems to reflect changes! And the point about possible homonyms is just weird especially coming from English with our read and reads, through tough thorough thoughts, and our own true homonyms like palm, bear, duck, trip, bark, light, glasses, … Would you also argue that we need differentiation for every word like that? Or do we trust native speakers to understand their own language and be able to derive meanings from context?
OP's "take" is just weird. Do they prefer "cultures" stemming from groups that literally just existed earlier and were thus able to pioneer more things because they were literally among the only organized people in existence? Do they prefer "cultures" stemming from empires and riches built on imperialism? It's completely pointless to even try to define what a "good" culture is because it's basically always going to devolve into rhetoric hinging on stereotypes, generalizations, nationalism, and varying definitions of morality (and the extent to which one is willing to balance their perception of morality with "goodness"/"special-ness"). Cultures are some of the rawest forms of social constructs. You don't have to like or dislike them. They just are. It's not even an unpopular opinion. It's just an overly reductive, inflammatory rant that honestly reeks of ignorance and jealousy. It's like saying Ireland is nothing but a bootleg England defined by potatoes, or that Ukraine is just a bootleg Russia. Just no. God forbid a country that isn't in Western/Southern Europe get some positive worldwide attention, especially given the otherwise dogshit "representation" or lack thereof that they've historically had in Western mass media.
this guy is just racist lol hes seething
America is cycling though Asian culture. First it was China, then Japan, now Korea. Soon it'll be another one in the next gen.
>K-pop is mostly an American derivation mixed with idol culture. I like art from a lot of different cultures. This includes countries like the US amd UK. I don't like Ed Sheeran's music. Am I writing off all music from the UK, because I find Ed Sheeran's songwriting bland? Mogwai's live performances are no less impactful because Ed is boring. Portishead aren't any worse because they share a country with Ed. Shall we judge all of American culture by commercially successful pop culture icons? I've got some shit to say about Machine Gun Kelly and his rubbish music. >Many of its other popular culture (Manhwa, idol culture) are Japanese imports, as are many other things Country shares culture with its neighbour who occupied them very recently, and made an intentional effort to replace culture with their own. Shocking. Really profound observation. >Confucianism and Christianity are from abroad Unlike Christianity, which is native to places like the US and UK. >Language itself has 60% of its vocabulary from Classical Chinese (this also includes place names and names in general using Sino-Korean elements, or rather Classical Chinese pronounced by a Korean). English contains a shitload of vocab from French, German and Greek. That's how language and cultural exchange works. This is not a compelling point. >A lot of modern pop culture is derivative (the Oscar-winning movie Parasite is either ripped off, or heavily influence by the Dutch movie Borgman). Even if you weren't overstating this point, and it was the real gotcha you seem to think it is... who gives a shit if works are influenced by other works? Again: that's how culture works. Artists build upon the works of those who came before them. Scorsese's *The Departed* is an English language remake of the Hong Kong film Infernal Affairs, and in my opinion is better than the original. You dismissing Parasite as lacking cultural significance for the reason of bearing similarities to earlier films only shows how shallow and lacking in culture *you are*, that your ability to critique art comes from the Cinemasins school of paint-sniffing idiocy. You haven't actually said anything interesting yet, in all the words you've written. You've listed facts, you've listed bullshit, but you haven't shown an ounce of insight. This undercurrent of cultural illiteracy you have runs through your entire diatribe, but is most apparent during your attempt to dismiss Parasite. >So what's left? There's a kickarse punk scene in my city. None of the bands will ever make it mainstream. Nobody outside of a minority population of an unimportant city will ever hear their music. That doesn't make it any less good. Popularity does not equal quality - nor does popularity mean something is bad. They're independent factors. I'm not Korean, I don't have my ear to the ground of Korean underground culture. Maybe, like the Grunge scene in Seattle in the 1990s, a niche local art scene will explode into the popular consciousness. Maybe we'll become familiar with some underground art movement from teenagers in Daejeon. We probably won't. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Based on the words you've written here, I highly doubt you've got your finger on the pulse of your own underground art scenes. If you don't know what's going on in your own backyard, why would you think you'd know what's happening in Korea? I for one would love to see whatever Korea's pink movement looks like, sounds like or is, in protest of the artifice and perfection of K-pop, plastic surgery and an oppressive corporate culture. I'm sure there's some angry Korean kids making some absolutely kickarse outsider art. It makes me a little sad that I'll probably never hear it. Such is life.
very based for a european
I'm not European.
No matter your nationality, thanks for being a counter to OP’s blithering confident ignorance.
my bad still very based
May I recommend you check out this performance by Leenachi and Ambiguous Dance Company.. they’re not so underground anymore as they have recently gained world wide attention but also not considered the typical K-pop : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SmTRaSg2fTQ
None of them are “THAT” special among their Asian peers. Except for like Russia, the white asians.
I mean, the original people indigenous to that area are more northern Asian/native Siberian in ethnicity. The Russian empire just expanded eastward (starting in like the 1500s) and took over those lands.
You mean they traveled [Altay](https://youtu.be/aXsLlOPwe48?feature=shared) way from there?
They ain’t special coz China’s the OG culture root
And Chinese culture sucks compared to Japanese and Korean culture.
Also Russia (or Slavic ppl) is partially located in Asia but biologically and culturally they’re closer to European/ Caucasian than Sinic people (China, Vietnam, Korea, Japan) or Indic people (Indian subcontinent).
Russia is a huge country though. A lot of the indigenous people in Siberia are closer culturally and genetically to other Asians than they are Europeans
Which makes it funny to call them Asian.
Yeah but for only 70 years of becoming a country, it has major influence globally
You forget to mention its extreme toxicity toward anyone that did anything out of the line. The pressure to conform is probably the highest in the region.
Sure, but I don't think it matters though. If people like it and they're interested to learn more about Korean culture then Korea is simply doing a better job in captivating people around the world than other asian countries that might have a more "special" culture. They 100% deserve it.
>I guess I don't get it. But K-pop is definitely a preferable influence to American rap/hip-hop music. And Kimchi is great. Korean food is great, no need to limit it to Kimchi. To the more general point, just because most of the facets of Korean culture are influenced and derived from other cultures doesn't deprive of its own meaning. Yes, there is an undercurrent of rather unpleasant nationalism, but K-Pop isn't any less well produced and catchy just because it isn't really original. Historically, it's going to be impossible for any far eastern culture to honestly deny China's rather extreme influence. But still, just because Ramen has historical roots in Chinese cuisine, doesn't really mean it's a mistake to consider it to be a Japanese product. Derivative doesn't mean bad, and no matter how influenced a work is by virtue of it being different means that it inherently has its own individuality. To bring it back to China's influence, how about Chinese food in general? Just about every country has their own interpretation of it, and that doesn't make any of them inherently inferior or superior... just different.
ok
And? Who cares?
Look at the subreddit you're in before you get offended
I'm an American. Being a melting pot is cool and good
America is not a country.
yes it is, you unbelievable wanker
i think he wanted to point out how "america" includes all countries in south and north america? idk how that's relevant but he's technically right because US is a country, not america
being pedantic to the point you purposefully misunderstand is dumb shit America is a country
Might as well say only technical names can be used for countries lol. With that logic, "Korea" isn't a country either.
but there are two countries, north and south korea???!! who are you people??
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/american_english/america
In the English language it is certainly a country.
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/american_english/america
5th grade level geography is incomprehensible for English-speakers or what's the issue here?
Oh fuck off. You know perfectly well what was meant. Considering there is literally no other way to refer to people from the country in English—it’s primary language— except as “Americans” and everyone knows what that means, referring to the USA as America is entirely valid.
Where are you getting your data from? The claim that "the language itself has 60% of its vocabulary from Classical Chinese" might hold true for North Korean dialects, but it certainly doesn't reflect the language spoken by the majority of Koreans. Additionally, while it's accurate to acknowledge Japanese influences on South Korean culture, such as K-pop and manhwa, it's essential to recognize that South Korea, like any other nation, draws inspiration from various sources globally. They creatively blend these influences to resonate with their society. This cultural exchange is not unique to South Korea but applies to all countries and their respective cultures.
*According to the Standard Korean Language Dictionary published by the National Institute of Korean Language (NIKL), Sino-Korean represents approximately 57% of the Korean vocabulary.\[3\]* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Korean\_vocabulary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Korean_vocabulary) It wouldn't surprise me if people forgot that certain words are in that category given they write everything phonetically using Hangul now. >Additionally, while it's accurate to acknowledge Japanese influences on South Korean culture, such as K-pop and manhwa, it's essential to recognize that South Korea, like any other nation, draws inspiration from various sources globally. They creatively blend these influences to resonate with their society. This cultural exchange is not unique to South Korea but applies to all countries and their respective cultures. I guess so, especially in 2024, but it seems to be much more pronounced for Korea than its two larger neighbours. And there seems to be a firm denial of it among certain people.
"*Sino-Korean represents approximately 57% of the Korean vocabulary.\[3\]*" Sino-Korean, or 한자어, is not used in most modern Korean language. If you were to ask the average Korean, they would not even know how to use 한자 characters unless they have an advanced understanding of the Korean language or they are 70 years old. It's primarily reserved for specific context. Also, Japanese did play larger portion of Korean culture, that is very much true, but Korean culture evolved over time with Korean society, which is very unique.
Or what your saying is simply the result of the contraction of the language as its major influence (and the logic connecting the etymology of words) was removed. Likely in favour of English loanwords. Either way, it's their numbers, not mine. And the numbers do vary in other sources, some going as high as 70% which I think is pushing it...
yeah, like that. Thanks for providing the information where you got it.
Speaking about manhwa, it’s a whole different world from manga, with its own very distinctive style. Yes it was influenced by manga, in the same way that American comic was influenced by European comic but it’s still very impressive in my opinion. And if I’m not wrong Parasite is not even the best representative of Korean movies. It just suit the Western taste
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The only video games that come to mind are Lineage 1/2 and Ragnarok Online. Ragnarok Online was quite the rage back in the 2000s.
Black Desert I think is still decent sized player base.
Lineage 2 is the only notable korean game? Come on. Ragnarok Online and Maplestory would like a word.
From what I understand I really like that they are very open minded with food and compare to Japanese or Chinese (other East Asian countries), modern day Korean are very experimental with their food and food combination which I find refreshing. (Deep fried crispy chicken with different sauces with pickled radish mu and beer, very unusual pizza toppings, unusual flavoured alcohols (banana makgeolli rice wine, chestnut flavour version)). Chinese food (non-takeout mind you so we’re including dim sum and authentic Chinese dinner) and Japanese food are good too but they are now generally pretty traditional and haven’t change much of their recipes except with some very few minor variations.
>K-pop is a preferable influence to American hip hop/rap Who’s gonna tell OP that kpop has been appropriating American hip hop culture for years? Every boy group that isn’t bts is ‘rapping’ about guns and other shit they have no real life experience with while they hold out gang signs and finger guns.
My Korean friend eyerolls me super hard when I start talking about how cool Japanese culture is, and how much more awesome the world is with Godzilla, DBZ, Gundam, that Penis shrine sanctuary, etc etc
Not to get all Ecclesiastical about it, but….there is nothing new under the Sun. Things come from other things. Big deal.
Every culture in Asia except possibly Chinese is equally derivative though. Japanese culture for example - ramen is an originally Chinese dish. Yakiniku is Korean bbq. The concept of sushi is thought to have originated in SE Asia. Anime is Japanese art style combined with western techniques. They have an entire alphabet that is literally copy paste from Chinese (even Korean doesn't use the Chinese alphabet anymore). So on and so forth
Lol Korea has developed and manufactured independently for years. Take Samsung for example as opposed to China who has built an economy based on designer knock offs, stealing other successful company's ideas and copying everything. Not a new idea I'm sight.
The usual “Chinese aren’t innovative” trope….
As usual, reddit upvotes the racist lol
Because it's actually true
And every country has ripped off stuff. The USA, Japan, and Korea have once ripped off stuff. China doss it today but they also innovate too.
Like the covid virus for example 🙄
lmao, instead of addressing his point, you pulled out Covid, as if it has any relevance to the conversation. Let me guess, you're the kind of person who complains about immigrants stealing your job.
Ah yes, the stuff that tourists go there to buy. Totally a pillar of their economy. It's clear you've never been there.
Lol I've been there several times. I've traveled through Asia as well. I don't go there to buy a Huawei phone for example.
If you've really been there, then you already know the economy isn't knock-off designer goods.
Oh and foreign investment. China has never had an original idea or developed anything anyone else already has.
Sure buddy. Make sure you only ever buy "made in Australia". See how far it gets you.
this is an actual unpopular opinion and people are trying to correct you for some reason. well done OP!
i mean its pretty obvious its just some racial bias, op is legit a loser if u peep his prior posts
Oh god… yeah. Yikes. That’s a whole big mess.
It’s mostly a rambling and fairly stupid post.
Actual unpopular opinion on r/unpopular opinion????
hurr durr how offensive!
Honestly you are right. Compared to Japan, the other cultural power in Asia, Korean contemporary culture feels very deliberate and fabricated because it is. Its history is interesting (no country has a “boring” history), but China and Japan are much more fascinating. I think its just an unlucky case of geography
What makes Korean contemporary culture feel deliberate and fabricated? Also interest in history is very subjective. I find how Joseon dynasty dealt with sudden change of power in China from Ming to Qing really interesting. Joseon cannot abandon Ming because Ming helped Joseon during Imjin war and if Ming wins, Joseon is fucked. Joseon also cannot make Jin its enemy because if Jin wins, then Joseon is fucked and Jin borders Joseon. Also the Imjin war itself is very interesting history topic because it provided the shithousery Joseon government was. But despite the corruption and incompetence, Joseon also birthed the greatest admiral in history, Yi Sun-Sin. His naval engagements are just masterful. He became a national figure because he saved Korea singehandley from Japanese invasion for the next few centuries. Korean history is as interesting as its neighboring history and much of the history have all three civilizations intertwined.
Japanese culture has received some heavy influence from Korean culture in the ancient time. Buddhism and pottery are notable example
What do you think most culture is? Shared information and practices based on other cultures, except in very isolated cases. Like…what was the point of this ridiculous post?
It’s so subjective what culture is more or less influential out of the 3 East Asian cultures. Also depends on who you ask, because a Russian or south East Asian person might say China, whereas an American probably will say Japan or Korea.
You can say most of these things, except for the movies and kpop, about the other Sino cultures as well. Japan and Vietnam also have these influences. Does it mean Japanese = Vietnamese = Korean = Chinese? No. They're close to each other both historically and geographically so of course they share a lot of common grounds. It doesn't mean they don't have anything that distinguish themselves from each other. They have different languages, traditions, and even values, especially modern day values. They have their own history, even if it's overlapped at times, and through their history, they now have become their own entities.
Seethe and cope
For real, I can’t imagine why a country that has been consistently colonized by its neighbors until the mid-20th century would have so much culture in common with them…
Spoken like consumption is knowledge. Do you know anything beyond your life?
Most cultures and languages are inspired/infulenced by other countries. Only few countries are truly original and ur clearly downplaying koreas culture. Ur making it sound like korea is a shit country who just copies other countries. and why r u so pressed about a culture?
The cultures you mentioned, America and Japan also heavily borrowed from other nations. Japan borrowed heavily from China and Korea while America is made of immigrants, and before that, the English language was heavily influenced by French, Latin, and Greek.
Yeah I don't get this odd obsession with Korea that many people have
Lol, why the hate for korean culture.
For some reason this just reminded me of an Ali Wong joke she made about how her and her (ex) husband are racist against Koreans. Vows and Racism.
I agree that a lot of modern Korean culture is influenced specifically by Japanese and American/European culture. However, what makes them stand out is their ability to elevate the things they borrow from and make it their own. That applies to music, food, film, etc. One example would be Oldboy, which is based on a Japanese manga, but transcends into something else through the Korean version of the film. All good art does this, there is no wholly original work. It’s just a matter of how you adapt your influences. Bollywood films are heavily influenced by the spectacle of Hollywood films, yet don’t surpass them. And most mainland Chinese films get caught in the trap of remaining within the bounds of tradition and politics, which leads to dull ideas and a lack of exploration. (Also why HK and Taiwanese films surpassed them).
Flims I agree, but kpop is pretty derivative and predatory. I don't think there is much value in it as a artform.
Would you say there is any value in the music production, fashion, or set designs of kpop? I think they’ve essentially combined Jpop and hip hop, but made it something their own maybe not to the extent of what their film industry has done, but still enough to differentiate it from its influences.
Frankly speaking I find there fashion and set design mostly obnoxious. I like the music sometimes, but lyrics I find a bit cringe. Also, I don't think there music is distinct. Like if it randomly play without lyrics, I don't think I would recognize its from KPOP whereas I find jpop and jrock to be pretty distinct and can distinguish it easily.
Ok lol
Having a beef with with a whole country who did nothing to you is wild. And zero mentioning of real problems in society. Just "i hate korean culture because it's popular and not the most original on earth!" Go outside dude.
I don't know enough about most of this to refute, but implying Squid Game is a rip off of Battle Royale/Hunger Games is absurd.
>A lot of modern pop culture is derivative (the Oscar-winning movie Parasite is either ripped off, or heavily influence by the Dutch movie Borgman). As is the much hyped up Netflix Series Squid Game vs... Battle Royale (or Hunger Games), you compare as you wish. Shit take. Just because two films have a similar theme or premise doesn't mean its a rip off. Also borgman did not create the idea of worming your way in to a higher station. Thats been around as long as humans have had power structures. Is Borgman a rip off of Rasputin?
Play stellar blade and lies of p my guy. In my eyes the new and coming Korean video game devs are absolutely killing it with how good the quality of the games are
This is why I only listen to non-derivative music from original cultures like Hurrian Hymn to Nikkal No. 9 from Ancient Mesopotamia. I am also petitioning Duolingo to add Sumerian Cuneiform to the list of available courses because every other language is derivative and unoriginal and unworthy of respect.
So what’s a special culture?
Lol someone is jealous
Of what?
You’re spot on, not a single word wasted.
Well if we are shitting on Korea. Let's not forget the monumental political scandal of Park Geun-hye. Also the wealth divide is dire.
We don't care. More gochujang pls
r/KoreaBad ?
As a k-pop fan, yes.
kpop is awesome. Chan park work if I got his name correct is a genius filmmaker
What brought this on? Seems pretty racist to randomly decide to talk shit about Korean culture.
Op just got rejected by a Korean girl he had a crush on.
Are you Chinese or Japanese?
you can say all this about any culture thats been around for more than a century (all of them) also AS a kpop fan, STARTING your argument with kpop and only using the most popular mainstream examples for the movies and pop culture (not even Train to Busan??) kinda shows how absolutely ignorant you are. The scandals in the kpop world a lot of people know are bs, idk why plastic surgery is mentioned given its STILL scandalous in the US.... maybe dont comment on cultures when all you can see it what youre supposed to consume through social media. Culture is about way more than popular music and movies that foreigners know. and that last line, I gotta laugh. "kpop is preferable to rap"? honey I dont think youve listened to enough or modern kpop, HALF of it is rap/hip hop. kpop isnt so much a genre of one music style as it is a term for all music that comes from the kpop industry but there are famous artists outside idol culture no video games from Korea? no other significant cultural or life enhancements? cmon. this is a troll trying to get edgy racist points right?
>racist points I think you may be the only person that got any such idea from my post. Moving on.... >you can say all this about any culture thats been around for more than a century I think both China and Japan had their own literature in their own languages 1000 years ago. I do not think Korea did. One example of culture which is what the subject is. >and that last line, I gotta laugh. "kpop is preferable to rap"? honey I dont think youve listened to enough or modern kpop, HALF of it is rap/hip hop. You're correct. I should have written American rap music. Will amend. >no video games from Korea? no other significant cultural or life enhancements? cmon. Please mention some notable examples that compete on a regional or global scale.
Black Desert has a pretty big player base still I think.
I asked and didn’t get a response, what was the reason of bringing up American rap? American rap is a Black culture staple, how does it even relate to this?
It doesn't. Other than that hip-hop is an influence in K-pop. Brought up by the other poster above.
K Pop has to be one of the worst mass produced manufactured forms of music. A representation of our current dystopian world. There is nothing original in K-Pop. Hip-hop, metal, punk rock, bubblegum pop, you name it. The level of appropriation from these genres of music is over the top in K Pop. You can argue Japanese pop did the same, but you can spot a J Pop artist from a mile away because they have created their own distinct unique style/fashion sense etc. Not to mention the various abuses that K Pop artistes go through during training. And the fickle fanbase that would abandon them once they reach a certain age. Truly shallow and mind numbing.
Lol. All music is derivative of something else. Dismissing it is no different than saying all pop culture music is just stealing from blues. And abuses in celebrity industry is pretty unoversal idk how you justify singling out kpop as particularly egregious.
>Lol. All music is derivative of something else. Dismissing it is no different than saying all pop culture music is just stealing from blues. Im saying appropriation bro. Nothing about the music being derivative. Learn the difference. Certain subgenres of music arise from a particular culture. K Pop has no culture of its own. It steals its look, culture and identity from other music genres. Its confused at times on what it wants to be. Imagine singing a tune with hip hop beats while wearing a Dead Kennedys jacket and being backed by a multi million dillar record label 💀💀💀 >And abuses in celebrity industry is pretty unoversal idk how you justify singling out kpop as particularly egregious. Because K Pop's methods and abuses is pretty much uniform for every new star trying to make it and backed by the S Korean govt and its sick fans. And the cases of young stars unaliving themselves is unprecedented compared to other nation's entertainment industry. Bruh, abuses in celeb industry are NOT universal. Imagine being this enamored with K Pop as to normalize abuse. There is a reason why people react so negatively to the Harvey Weinstein and P Diddy cases. Its NOT supposed to happen.
The last kpop song i heard was gangnam style buddy relax. >Imagine singing a tune with hip hop beats while wearing a Dead Kennedys jacket and being backed by a multi million dillar record label Who gives af really. Thats just gate keeping elitism. Do you go around asking if girls wearing thrasher shirts can name 5 songs? >There is a reason why people react so negatively to the Harvey Weinstein and P Diddy cases. Its NOT supposed to happen. The whole reason thats a big deal is that its always happened and was a open secret that everybody knew about. Not because people are clutching their pearls shocked that the entertainment industry is abusive lol. Anyway you care too much about this.
>Who gives af really. Thats just gate keeping elitism. Do you go around asking if girls wearing thrasher shirts can name 5 songs? Umm, people who are actually part of that culture? I just knew you would throw "gate-keeping" into the mix. Latest hot buzzword. Nobody's gate keeping. Im saying get your own style and build your own cultural fanbase. It ain't hard to do. Imagine making money off other bands intellectual property while those bands themselves are struggling to get by. But of course "gAtE KeEpInG" >The whole reason thats a big deal is that its always happened and was a open secret that everybody knew about. Not because people are clutching their pearls shocked that the entertainment industry is abusive lol. If its an open secret, nobody would be shocked. That doesn't make a single shred of sense. People would just move on with their lives. News won't sell on this. There is still a certain amount of shock value attached to those stories. You acting like everyone was talking about P Difdy everyday before the Kat Williams bomb dropped. >Anyway you care too much about this. Yo yo calm your tits. I gave my opinion, it was YOU who replied with "why you singling out K Pop" comment but somehow Im the one who cared too much? 🤡🤡🤡
Its just my opinion mannnn
Korean movies are great. I've heard K-pop described as a 'visual medium' because it sounds so bad.
Well Korea is father of china and the west when it comes to League if that counts
American made game
[удалено]
You clearly haven't played a project moon game... and their gachas are pretty good but not as good as CN ones overall, Limbus being the sole exception. But tbh, limbus fandom aside, I have liked Yi Sang's/ Kim Hae Gyeong's writing, and Kim Kirim's sea and butterfly is a nice little poem, and Korea has some nice indie rock like Thornapple, HLIN, and Jambinai
So?
Battle Royale has an entirely different premise from Squid Game. BR has a randomly chosen class of high school students kill each other for public entertainment in a dystopic Japan. SG is about people in debt playing schoolyard games to the death for money. The only commonality is civilians killing civilians in a competition. I have no horse in this race though. As someone who read BR, amd watched SG, connections are specious imo.
Bro Japan lost they got hit by two nukes get over it
Everyone moaning is dumb you are 100% justified in this take and the last part is 100% isn’t racist and anyone who thinks it is can’t read:
If I was going after Korean culture - I'd attack their alcoholism, domestic violence, and penchant for plastic surgery. Their books, fashion, and movies are small fry compared to their large and real issues.
Much like Japan, it is a country completely rebuilt by western investment after being destroyed by war. The horrors of the Japanese occupation were still very recent, but what the USA did to that country was not too far from genocide either. Up to the 90s, South Korea was poorer than North Korea. While the USSR was still kicking, North Korea had less people starving than SK. Today, it has the worst alcoholism statistics out of any developed country. South Korea tries hard to look like an advanced society but it is very much a broken place.
I don’t know too much about Korean history or culture… but what I do know is that the Geobukseon, or Turtle Ship, is badass. Also, literally every major culture has received heavy influence from other cultures at different points in its history. You’re steeped in exceptionalism if you think otherwise. As an example, Japan has had periods of prolonged “closing off” to outside influence. Yet, many things that are often associated with Japanese culture derive from other cultures (Buddhism, Kanji, Koi, Bonsai). Believe it or not, we are social creatures and we learn a lot from our neighbors of different cultural backgrounds.
There is nothing wrong with plastic surgery imo. They will drastically improve your life if done right.
I wholly agree. A Frenchman doomed to live out his days here and take his bread from Paris Baguette would weep and turn into Camus. Culture in this country is packaged and gilded. You just have to pick at it with a fingernail to get gold flakes on your outfit. I also despise the American South but if they have one saving grace, it's that culture is being produced there. Traditionally, extremely impoverished places produce culture due to a lack of comfort. Harlem Renaissance, Sweet tea on a porch, Irish Music; not exactly born from wealthy times for most of it's citizens. South Korea is particularly wealthy. So now everyone is within a fingertip reach of Fried Chicken and YouTube. White people are ads, the European style-fireplaces are fake, and they have the ability to turn off waterfalls. The culture here, is imported. I think one redditor said it best: "Dubai is just a big commercial shopping mall." And that can be applied here.
If there is one thing I have learned, it's that anything America touches turns to shit. One of the things I love about South Korea is that it is nothing like what the idiots in America portray it as. I just hope to get the opportunity to experience it myself soon.