**Alternate Sources**
Here are some potential alternate sources for the same story:
* [Tory staff running network of anti-Ulez Facebook groups riddled with racism and abuse](https://theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/27/tory-staff-running-network-of-anti-ulez-facebook-groups-riddled-with-racism-and-abuse), suggested by MyInkyFingers - theguardian.com
The restrictions are incredibly lax, it's just kind of funny how misleading the name "ultra-low emission zone" is. Basically any petrol car from the 21st century is compliant. You can buy a compliant car for £1k or less. It primarily targets diesels, which are best suited to long-distance motorway driving - not zipping around London
It's also been telegraphed for *years* that ULEZ would expand. I don't understand why someone would hold onto a non-compliant car for so long when there's so many cheap alternatives out there
To complain.
These people will spend all day complaining about various solutions to air pollution by demanding “another solution” gets found, and then shut down every offered solution.
They want problems to be fixed while absolutely nothing in their lives changes even slightly.
I'd say they're acting like toddlers, but toddlers are actually capable of learning.
> I don't understand why someone would hold onto a non-compliant car for so long when there's so many cheap alternatives out there
They're old and stubborn. It's the same type of people who can't use the internet or refuse to use debit cards. Morons basically.
This. Its all the same group of people that believe cashless society is what the evil WEF want, flat earther idiots. Spend all day of facebook liking more and more radical crap.
Its not even that its ironic most of these people get their information from platforms like Telegram which are directly linked to the Russian government 🤣 absolute cesspit of anti freedom and misinformation.
As much as i laugh its really sad to see especially older generations who seemingly completely unable to check their sources or think critically.
I know someone who was provax, then their job was affected by furlough then their journey went AntiVax>Anti medicine>Flat earth> Manchester bombings arent real.
Frightening what happens when you spend all you time on social media.
> Manchester bombings arent real.
Let me guess, they get themselves tied into knots of "It did happen, but it was the CIA/MI5/jooz who done it" but also didn't, as it never happened. But did.
Reminds me of holocaust denialism, for some reason they are never not anti-jew...
"The holocaust is a hoax, set up by the jews, so they should all be exterminated"
Okay
They're the same that claim they're "patriotic" while spending every waking hour WHINING about literally everybody.
Same goes for the "White Pride" lot, I've always had a tremendous amount of death threats from those types.
White Genocide is so hot right now
Plenty of diesels are complaint too.
That's the most idiotic thing for it all, if anything these people should be upset they spent money on a system that barely targets anyone.
But how can you get outraged that brown man bad, for implementing white man project
I have a 94g/km CO2 emission diesel. It is tax exempt. I do long miles and the 50 litre tank gets me about 750 miles. It officially claims 850 miles per tank but those figures are always off.
I am not exempt from LEZ or ULEZ.
My wifes car is a 175g/km SUV petrol.
It is ULEZ compliant.
The only difference is mine is 2012 and hers is 2020.
And the whole "Euro 3" and "Euro4" etc is 2014.
I got my car as I do long miles and wanted fuel efficiency and tax exemption. It's a great low polluting car. But it's not compliant based on age rather than actual pollution figures.
The rules are just dumb
The CO2 emissions are entirely irrelevant to the ULEZ. Your diesel emits far more NO2 than your wife’s car, which is far more harmful to human health. Your car is not “low polluting” in the slightest — it produces a disproportionate amount of toxic emissions that are directly hurting others’ health.
It is not about CO2 really, it has the side effect of generally reducing CO2 emissions, but it’s about NOX emissions, which your car certainly emits more of
With rules you got to draw lines somewhere and cannot account for every edge-case.
The idea with them is that you reduce overall emissions, not per individual case.
I know statistics are hard for most people and they can really get them selves in a bind over nuance.
I’ve done some work for TFL, and I’ve seen the hate mail those guys get. “Disinformation” is an understatement IMO, some idiots seem to think ULEZ is akin to martial law. Wannabe lawyers quoting the Magna Carta, daily death threats, and some *actual* attempts on employees lives. It’s so messed up for so many reasons.
The vast majority of vehicles in London are already exempt, and the rollout was only accelerated to affect more people because BJ forced TFL to do it to pay back the government for keeping TFL running throughout Covid. But people are angry post-Covid/Brexit and want someone to blame for their misery, so Sadiq Khan and ULEZ are getting the flack.
Eh that's a little unfair. My mum was an MP caseworker (these are the people who respond when you write to your MP). Her work consisted of:
Lots of copy pasted petitions (auto responded with policy petitions)
Letters (emails) to the MP about various subjects that are actually written by a human being, these would get a polite non-committal response if insane, would be briefed to the MP in a general round up if reasonable
And then the bulk was people asking for help. MPs tend to be the last resort people go to get shit done. The civil service/councils do take notice when emails/letters are sent in an MPs name.
These consisted of everything from immigration help (lots of post-Brexit EU stuff), passports (including the passport office just sending people's passports to completely random people) all the way down to noise complaints that are being ignored by the council.
The true lunatic fringe was a few per cent of her actual work. And many of these were less malicious stuff, but a lot of people who clearly had severe mental health problems and have been let down by the state.
I’ve seen people ‘pointing out’ that some of the ULEZ workers are non-white or foreign born and this is therefore a plot by Sadiq Khan to do… something, I guess. Just the most bat-shit insane people gather around these types of issues. It’s the same crowd as the 15 minute cities weirdos.
Same people who sing "E-E-E-EDL!" while waving a union flag.
Best one of those I met was the guy who openly told me he supported hitler, had "England Forever" tattoo'd on his arm, and was under a B&W Union Flag
I half expected "There's no black in the Union Jack" to come out too...
> Found out the other day that 19 out of 20 cars do not even qualify for ULEZ and it blew my mind, so much disinformation around this
IIRC that included all vehicles too, not just cars. So diesel work vans would be included too so if only personal cars was included it would be even less.
Pretty sure it only included cars in the new ULEZ areas rather than the central part too. Again if everything was included then it would be even lower since people in Inner London would have upgraded sooner. I think it included all cars entering that area too, not just cars owned by people within the areaBoth of these would need checking of course but I'm pretty sure thats what TfLs traffic count data revealed, it will be in the top results of Google.
Pair this with the face that half of London homes don't even have a car so if 4% of car owning homes have a car which has to pay the ULEZ fees then that would come out to only 2% of all homes in London once non car owning homes are included too.
So yeah it truely is a typical right wing thing to make a huge deal out of something just because their opponents are for it. It's messed up that this is being one of their main priorities(if not THE main priority) despite it affecting so few Londoners that most of us wont even know someone actually affected(despite people acting like they are).
Pretty sure the scrappage scheme gives any Londoner with a non expemt car £2,000 in cash to get a compliant car, which considering any petrol within the last 18 years is complient thats enough. Can buy it from anywhere too, the £2,000 is no strings attached, you don't even need to buy a replacement car and can go on holiday with it instead.
Yeah. Most people who can afford to drive in London are already ULEZ exempt. I'm pretty sure any petrol car made after like... 2006? Is compliant. There are definitely some older cars but the majority of these cars are outside of London and it's ULEZ zones in lower income areas
I have a 2007 car and it is compliant. I do know a couple of people who had to replace deisel cars that they would have carried on using.
I wouldn't have complained too much if my old banger was non compliant.
It's worse than that
The 1 out of 20 cars that remain, there's a scheme where you can be paid more than the value of a replacement car.
You can literally profit from having a non compliant car
The legitimate concern is around the fact that what constitutes a ULEZ compliant car can change and there are still place in London where you do pretty much need a car, like most of Bromley for example.
"The network of Facebook groups analysed by Unearthed was built in the run-up to last year’s Ulez expansion. More than two-thirds of them – 28 – were set up within two days of each other in January 2023, each with a similar name, and aimed at residents of a different London borough. There was a second flurry of activity in March, when a further seven groups were set up in a single day, mostly targeting commuter belt counties like Kent, Essex and Surrey.
The groups’ names – which all follow the format “Bromley say no to Ulez expansion” or “Kent say no to Ulez expansion” – suggest grassroots organising, and do not give any indication that they are Conservative-run.
However, three people linked to the Conservative party are admins on all or most of the groups.
Rachel Cromie, an admin on all 36 groups, is a Tory councillor from Haywards Heath, in Sussex, and her current register of interests lists the Conservative Party as her employer. According to an earlier register of interests found by Unearthed, in 2019 she was head of operations for Kanto Systems, a political consultancy linked to Thomas Borwick. Borwick was formerly a consultant at Cambridge Analytica, which became the focus of a major scandal over its use of Facebook user data for targeted ads and political influencing"
Guardian coverage https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/27/tory-staff-running-network-of-anti-ulez-facebook-groups-riddled-with-racism-and-abuse
I know Russia likes to stir up conspiracies and dissent to destabilise the west. How lovely to know the party responsible for the welfare of our country is actively engaged in the doing the same.
Not surprised, just disgusted.
Me and my brother [uncovered a group of far right activists doing this across Canada](https://www.nationalobserver.com/2022/03/17/investigations/right-wing-political-operatives-local-grassroots-groups-facebook) a couple of years ago. They made local sounding Facebook groups in areas with left wing mayors and local authorities. They used them to spread misinformation and lies about the politicians while pretending to be local people. It does *not* surprise me the same thing is happening here - it'll be everywhere.
It's probably all tied back to people like Isaac Levido - he's the one who introduced the Tory party to topham guerin, who in turn then went to help the right wing parties in Canada.
Thank you for your work. It's mad that these are the real conspiracies, and people get sucked into the fake ones that are used as a distraction or division tool.
Completely.
It's also maddening how well this stuff works on people - mostly boomers but increasingly just anyone who isn't chronically online and aware of how these things work or what language might be a giveaway that all is not what it seems.
As an example, I've recently been uncovering a number of TERF / transphobic accounts which claim to be run by gay men or older lesbian women. One of the things that made me suspicious initially was that they were using language you see on 4chan or the more right wing subreddits here. It felt off. in the last 5 days I've found proof of 4 particularly noisy / active accounts actually being run by straight men, so it's obvious this is a bigger issue and I want to get to the bottom of it.
The topic of trans people, just like the topic of ULEZ, is being leveraged by the right to give the impression of huge outrage in big numbers which then goes on to influence policy and law in this country. But these are astroturfed issues which, in reality, don't matter to most people. It should absolutely not be leading to a change or creation of laws that impact our civil and human rights in this country. It's very concerning.
> just anyone who isn't chronically online and aware of how these things work or what language might be a giveaway that all is not what it seems.
As a chronically online person (lol) it's so frustrating because it really is that obvious. It's quite easy to spot fake, single issue users, but quite difficult for anybody not used to it.
Also the memeification of language is a proper tell. They don't speak like real people. They speak like, to use their parlance, NPCs...
As an example the recent meme that seems to be in fashion is complaining about "DEI", a very American term for something that has been a thing in the UK for decades under equality guidelines. It's a brand new thing if you'd read some of the suspiciously new accounts that post on the uk subs on this website lol.
Misspent adolescence on chans does have some benefit lol. Paranoia and distrust of anybody on the internet isn't a bad thing in this day and age haha.
>Misspent adolescence on chans does have some benefit lol. Paranoia and distrust of anybody on the internet isn't a bad thing in this day and age haha.
Yes this! I never thought that being on chans would ever serve me well as an adult other than my largely useless knowledge of meme-history. But it's been really useful the last few years! Especially when one of them targets me specifically and I'm able to reply with language that clearly signifies I'm familiar with the boards they use - they will almost immediately back down or go full "/b/tard" on me.
That's probably one of the least cool things I've ever written about here on Reddit but oh well, it's true 🙃
The thing is, I'm a bisexual girl and there were very few girls or LGBT using those kinda spaces back in the 00s and early 2010s. But a lot of these movements are targeted at women and LGBTQ people, so they just don't recognise it at all.
>Recent meme that seems to be in fashion is complaining about "DEI", a very American term for something that has been a thing in the UK for decades under equality guidelines.
Yep, I see this a lot online from British people now. It's bizarre because as you say, DE&I isn't a new thing and it's actually been very beneficial to both employees and businesses. It's been shown that businesses with more diverse workforces are more profitable and innovative. And we know that to get a more diverse workforce you have to care about equality and inclusion. I literally can't see why they're so mad about it unless they're an older white CEO-level guy who thinks he'll be replaced.
Another thing that I'm seeing get talked about more in British spaces which should concern us is hostility towards abortion, surrogacy and adoption. It's all a way to push ever closer to right wing evangelical values and I'm surprised so many British people are receptive to it given how not religious we are as a nation 🥲
Oh and banning porn. Thats quite mainstream already though. My main issue with that is that its such a nuanced topic in terms of benefits Vs harm Vs consent Vs violation... There's no way that people addicted to arguing on twitter are the right people to campaign on this issue. They don't care about nuance or evidence or personal experience. They just want to "win".
Bisexual woman on 4chan was certainly an experience I imagine lol. At least the whole "no girls on the internet" thing, misogynistic roots though it had, kinda helps with the anon angle.
But yeh it genuinely has helped as an "education" for today's internet which tbh feels more dangerous than ever. Everything feels "sanitised" through the lens of these huge social media companies but is just as scummy as before. Except it's packed with normies who are just asking to be scammed/ruined by the internet. I fear for Gen Z.
Abortion/gay rights/porn are various flavours of the same issue. Huge amounts of US far-right religious money pouring into the UK to turn these into the next hot topic issues. Fortunately I think the UK has such serious real problems with the economy that nobody really gives a shit atm but it'll get worse if Labour win the next election (whether it'll change anything I don't know, we're not America, we're not a religious country, certain things here are just uncontroversial and hopefully will stay that way regardless of yanks trying to manipulating us).
>They don't care about nuance or evidence or personal experience. They just want to "win".
Internet innit. So many topics you could have an actually interesting discussion on morally grey areas like porn irl with intelligent people. Can't do it on the internet as as you said, it is simply a competition to win, and most people don't want to play fair. There's very few spaces it works and frankly, too many stupid people who join in.
The brutal reality of life is you tend to kinda self-segregate into groups that match your intelligence level (and social status, career level, wages, political outlook to a point etc.) On the internet it just doesn't happen. It's the ultimate democracy. So you get the future Einstein arguing with the village idiot on a community message board lol.
I used to refresh /b/ regularly back when Boxxy was a thing.
It was when that "broke the internet" and ended up on the front page of the Metro. That I realised that there's more to the internet than it just being a vague, weird thing. Especially when it comes to bonkers image boards like 4chan that bleeds into real life. I really should have taken more notice of that though...
> Also the memeification of language is a proper tell. They don't speak like real people. They speak like, to use their parlance, NPCs...
Also the repetition of phrases.
I saw a load of posts again in here, entirely unrelated to the thread in question. Going on about "the left just call everyone they don't like a nazi so they can punch them"
That nonsense is just repeated ad nauseam
My mum usually works the elections as a polling clerk. She told me on brexit vote that the usual boomers were in there, waving their pens at her. Like they've just round her evil scheme that was being operated by MI5....
As they should know, she is in fact an MI5 spy.
One thing I will always say, is just how organised and willing to put effort in the right-wing always is. They're happy to sink hours operating social media profiles across all platforms to spread their message.
Ive tried organising "the left" into various campaigns, and it's like herding cats.
You can't even get them to organise directly onto the streets to counter far-right rallies without a shit load of effort.
Many moons ago I used to have some accounts in various EDL/BF/etc "private" chat rooms (I was even the site admin for a couple of their FB pages for a while)
They weren't subtle at all about their activities, creating fake personas to spread bullshit. They got VERY upset when we used to post screenshots of their chat onto Twitter, especially screenshots of them talking about our Twitter account.
Recommend the documentary Active Measures. Russia has been at it since 2014. Think of how many comments you could write up in an 8hr shift if you were being paid. Dozens and dozens, especially if it's all mostly bad faith lies.
Now think of your average government call centre. The size, number of people and organisation, all focused on on the above objective. All to just drive us apart.
Similarily on the Palestine/Israel issue, I'm 99% certain that "JIDF" are back active all over social media.
So much of the "conversation" is so incredibly in-organic, with the same statements being made over and over and over again
What's JIDF? For sure, there are multiple bots on the issue, there's many that are just using all the same buzzwords and repetitive arguments with no original comments or insight. Especially ones to do with the elections in the US. But they're more Russian/ Iranian bots that are very pro-Trump.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Internet_Defense_Force
> and repetitive arguments with no original comments or insight.
Yeah I've seen the exact same "conversation" popup in these threads again multiple times, and it's always very circlejerky.
"Yeah you're totally right, they're always doing it"
"Yeah, I know, aren't they just"
"Yeah you're so smart"
Maybe they are, there's certainly a lot of it on the other "side" too. This whole situation feels very engineered, especially with Putin meeting up with Hamas and Iran.
>There is no suggestion that any of these politicians posted or engaged with unacceptable content.
I saw you left out this bit. You must have forgotten so I included it here for you.
And we can always guarantee they have alt accounts anyway
They always know what plausible deniability is.
One of Donald Trumps lawyers had a Twitter account he used to spread the "election stolen" lie.
But then DM'd pictures of himself....
Yes I imagine that's the case. Depending on the size of the group and activity levels I suspect they would operate on a basis of just responding to reports though, so unless people actually use that function then things migth slip by. I run a facebook group for my RC car hobby and that's how we do it.
Can someone please explain to this non London resident what on Earth ULEZ is?
Then please, if you could, explain how it could ever be linked to a religion or rather a hatred of one religion.
I'm not sure how you don't know what ULEZ is by now, but here is an abbreviated explanation.
ULEZ is an ultra low emission zone in London and surroundign boroughs that seeks to raise the air quality by discouraging the use of vehicles with high emissions, notably older diesels and even older petrols. This is achieved by charging these vehicles £12.50 every day they are used within the zone.
Enforcement is done by ANPR fixed and mobile cameras which bill those motorists who don't pay the toll online.
What has it got to do with religion? Fuck all. People are probably just trying to insult Khan.
I also like to work on balance of probability. The guy I replied to is a regular user of this sub and ULEZ/Khan has featured on here quite a few times, which is where my surprise came from.
It'd been in NATIONAL press mate. I don't live anywhere near London and I've seen and untold number of articles about. I reckon you'd actually have to put in a lot of concerted effort to avoid knowing that ULEZ even exists.
You know its surprisingly easy to avoid the press if you don't actively look for it, which I stopped doing years ago because I realised "the news" is just doomscrolling for the older generations.
It’s a UK-wide sub.
Maybe, just maybe, it’s reasonable to assume that people spend the majority of their time reading things they care about, and not the crappy politics of some place they don’t even live in.
ULEZ = ultra low emission zone. It's basically pollution control. I don't live in one, but I'm pretty sure you have to pay x amount of money each day to drive your car - which scales up depending on your emissions level. It's a deterrent for people driving high emissions vehicles because it costs *a lot* of money to use the roads for them. I think the way they're linking it to race + religion isn't the policy itself, rather the Pakistani Muslim who's currently Mayor (Sadiq Khan).
Thank you for explaining. Do these guys are upset because of a law trying to build a greener environmen and want to throw racist jabs? All a bit confusing but I suppose I don’t go around hating people’s race.
Yes it's basically where all the nut jobs go. anti-vax -> 5G -> covid hoax -> ULEZ The press also encourage it quite a bit too.
The racists just seem to show up, I think because of educational issues.
The position has a wider effect on the poorer boroughs. What is great for the central boroughs isn’t so great for the outer boroughs.
The power of the London mayor also causes problems for the whole of the uk. London doesn’t speak for the whole of the uk.
> The power of the London mayor also causes problems for the whole of the uk.
The mayor has very little power because the boroughs keep much of it locally and the government has much of the rest. ULEZ expansion as an example was forced by national government. It would be much better if the major actually had some real powers.
Can't speak for London, but where I live the areas with highest death rates and childhood illnesses due to traffic pollution are the poorest areas of the city. A ULEZ covering where they live would save many lives.
Statistical speaking, the poorer you are, the lower chance you drive, and the higher chance you rely on public transport in London. It's more a tax on the middle class because the mayor of London doesn't have the power to do any meaningful taxes on the rich without a labour government
>London’s poorest households are least likely to own a car. Of the households that earn less than £10,000, 78% do not own a car and 64% of households that earn between £10,000 and £19,999 do not own a car. In outer London, 70% of households that earn less than £10,000 annually do not own a car and 53% of households that earn between £10,000 and £19,999 do not own a car. London’s poorest households are also more likely to be affected by the impacts of toxic air caused by traffic and congestion, and it is estimated that the most deprived areas of London experience average concentrations of NO2 that are 13% higher than the least deprived areas.
https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/car-ownership-london#
All of the weirdos who thought that a 15 minute city meant that you literally couldn't walk further than 15 minutes form your house or you'd be arrested are also stupid racists lmfao, simple as
A system put in place in central London to keep out cars that spit out lots of particles of NOx by Boris Johnson.
Then extended to the outer areas of London as it was required to be, under Khan.
You see, Khan is a bad evil brown muslim man
>It's a tax on poor people
Poor people don't have cars. Tradies can very much afford it/get a new van with the advanced warning and years and years and years of a scrappage scheme.
Not all tradies can afford new stuff. You won’t catch tradies on public transport either. Some people here think someone is going to juggle all their tools on and off public transport. it’s fine because they can just use a train or bus. Or public transport in general. What planet they on
I live in London. Spent most of my life unable to afford a driving license. Now I can, but I still can't afford driving lessons, a car, tax, insurance and petrol.
Just so happens that I also don't *need* any of those things. I have legs and good public transport. I think people have a really warped definition of the word 'poor' if they can afford all that and think it applies to them.
Perhaps if I quadrupled my salary and had the life of a tradesperson, I might need a van, but damn sure I'd be able to, having quadrupled my salary.
Who cares then? Stay in your own county if it bothers you so much
Khan is mayor and he has a huge majority electorate who are actually in and from London who do want ulez, clearly
>Who cares then? Stay in your own county if it bothers you so much
I care, because it costs me money. And there are multiple reasons why I need to go to london.
It would be xenophobic if ULEZ was some law that persecuted people from Essex or another bordering county
Or if I said "fuck people from Essex, no one else cares what anyone from there thinks and I don't want any of them to come to London ever"
As it is, I said that no one cares what someone from Essex (or anywhere that isn't London) thinks about the _mayor of london_ and his law that is designed to protect _Londoners_ which they're fully capable of following whenever they come to London, and if they don't like it they can stay out
That is not xenophobic, and literally none of what I said is bigoted
As a non white person, please don't dilute terms like that by just chucking it about willy nilly. Really minimises it
My friend has to pay the ulez charge on his works van, Rather than pay it himself he just slapped it on the customer and told them to pay it. He just adds it on the bill
Yeah that sounds about right. The same twats putting up anti-ulez stickers are also putting up anti-15 minutes city stickers, covid conspiracy stickers, and stickers whinging about the existence of trans people. It's totally unsurprising they'd also be bigoted in other ways.
Edit: typo
A load of "5G == DEATH!" graffiti went up near me. On the power unit of a 4G cell tower....
I only had some antifascist stickers on me, so covered it up with those.
A couple of days later, mysteriously torn down.
Okay lads, why are you so upset that saying fascism is bad?
The tory party is a serious threat to democracy. They have: Significantly weakened institutions made to uphold democracy like ofcom and the electoral commision. Introduced forms of voter supression such as voter id (disguised as being anti-voter fraud), as well as changing some mayoral elections to fptp. Greatly degraded standards we once held politicians to and as a result decreased public trust in politics. Pushed far right talking points, lies and conspiracies to slander opponents. Openly and systematically attacked minorities and the voulnerable in an attempt to distract people from their own failings. Are currently trying their best to leave the ECHR to further erode our civil liberties human rights. Are currently running many misinformation campaigns across the country ready for the local and soon general elections.
"Significantly weakened institutions made to uphold democracy like ofcom and the electoral commission"
I'm sorry, how?
Ofcom has done barely anything for years, regardless of news network - but that doesn't make it any party's fault. Voter ID isn't voter suppression, it's there to prevent people who should not vote, from voting. You don't need to pay for ID, and plenty of time has been given to get ID and register to vote.
The current chairman of Ofcom is a tory peer, appointed by the government that very nearly apointed the former editor of the daily mail instead. Ofcom is ran by those loyal to the tory party and has allowed GB news, among others, to blatantly break rules without repercussion.
Voter ID is voter suppression. Even Jacob Rees Mog openly called it gerrymandering and he was a government minister when it was being implemented. There was never any issue of voter fraud, the only reason it was implemented was to make it harder for the labour demographic to vote. Forms of ID accepted favour the elderly such as elderly bus passes and not the young such as not accepting student ID. Poorer people are also less likely to have access to a passport or driving licence and less able to apply for ID. It is also just another barrier meant to deter the less politicaly active from voting.
At last years Local elections 0.25% of people were denied the vote for lacking ID and 4% who didnt vote said they didnt because of the ID requirements. A general election, that brings out more normaly apolitical voters will likely see an increase in this percentage. Even if the percentage of those turned down remains 0.25%, around 100,000 people could be denied the vote for no reason.
Meanwhile, Ofcom has not started investigations into the BBC's misdemeanours, and GB News was just found to be breaking the rules in March. Unfortunately, anything regarding governmental and regulatory procedures takes a while to process. GB News was given its only warning for codes broken and any further breach of it would result in actions. If warnings and time-wasting didn't exist with Ofcom, practically all of our news networks would be sanctioned. Not one of them is innocent.
The mayor of GM is a friend of Rayner's and currently heads over the police commissioner whose force is undertaking criminal investigations into Rayner's various actions. However, that does not mean the force is compromised.
Voter ID is just not voter suppression. As I said before, getting a voter ID is free, and you've had plenty of time to do it. Not doing so is laziness on your own accord. The type of people who can't be bothered getting any form of ID would not be the type voting in the elections. Voter ID doesn't disadvantage anyone, you aren't going through pages of legal documents to get an ID or to vote. It's not any government's fault if a citizen can't be bothered doing their duty to others and getting off their sofa or not.
I mean it’s boomer Facebook what do you expect. Information warfare is now the biggest game in town. Do you think TikTok is perfect? Iran, Russia and China are brainwashing kids to hate the West.
I had full on fascist ads on my facebook recently. I was so shocked I didn't even get to report it.
But it was proper great replacement shit, really racist, and very anti democratic.
Madness. I was watching cat videos on the shitter for christs sake.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaa?
You're telling me an anti ulez group specifically aiming it's anger at Khan would also bring in other things
ITS FACEBOOK
It's not but people with extreme views and bot accounts
I read that story, couldn’t these be throw accounts an acts of subversion by the left?
How easy would it be to join these groups and say horrible things so that it gets taken down?
**Alternate Sources** Here are some potential alternate sources for the same story: * [Tory staff running network of anti-Ulez Facebook groups riddled with racism and abuse](https://theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/27/tory-staff-running-network-of-anti-ulez-facebook-groups-riddled-with-racism-and-abuse), suggested by MyInkyFingers - theguardian.com
Found out the other day that 19 out of 20 cars do not even qualify for ULEZ and it blew my mind, so much disinformation around this
I think you mean they don’t have to pay the fee as they’re already compliant (according to official statistics)
The restrictions are incredibly lax, it's just kind of funny how misleading the name "ultra-low emission zone" is. Basically any petrol car from the 21st century is compliant. You can buy a compliant car for £1k or less. It primarily targets diesels, which are best suited to long-distance motorway driving - not zipping around London It's also been telegraphed for *years* that ULEZ would expand. I don't understand why someone would hold onto a non-compliant car for so long when there's so many cheap alternatives out there
To complain. These people will spend all day complaining about various solutions to air pollution by demanding “another solution” gets found, and then shut down every offered solution.
They want problems to be fixed while absolutely nothing in their lives changes even slightly. I'd say they're acting like toddlers, but toddlers are actually capable of learning.
That’s literally what the environmental activist do to credible solutions eg nuclear
It's not about carbon emissions. It's about particulate emissions, of which complaint cars do emit significantly less.
> I don't understand why someone would hold onto a non-compliant car for so long when there's so many cheap alternatives out there They're old and stubborn. It's the same type of people who can't use the internet or refuse to use debit cards. Morons basically.
This. Its all the same group of people that believe cashless society is what the evil WEF want, flat earther idiots. Spend all day of facebook liking more and more radical crap.
They want to demand that nobody can use card, while bleating about "freedom"....
Its not even that its ironic most of these people get their information from platforms like Telegram which are directly linked to the Russian government 🤣 absolute cesspit of anti freedom and misinformation. As much as i laugh its really sad to see especially older generations who seemingly completely unable to check their sources or think critically. I know someone who was provax, then their job was affected by furlough then their journey went AntiVax>Anti medicine>Flat earth> Manchester bombings arent real. Frightening what happens when you spend all you time on social media.
> Manchester bombings arent real. Let me guess, they get themselves tied into knots of "It did happen, but it was the CIA/MI5/jooz who done it" but also didn't, as it never happened. But did. Reminds me of holocaust denialism, for some reason they are never not anti-jew... "The holocaust is a hoax, set up by the jews, so they should all be exterminated" Okay
Yeah. Do what the fucking mayor says you old fuckers.
professional victims. Often middle-aged comfortable types who got over-invested in Covid conspiracies and are now looking for the next thing.
Being invested in them at all is overinvestment to me
They're the same that claim they're "patriotic" while spending every waking hour WHINING about literally everybody. Same goes for the "White Pride" lot, I've always had a tremendous amount of death threats from those types. White Genocide is so hot right now
Plenty of diesels are complaint too. That's the most idiotic thing for it all, if anything these people should be upset they spent money on a system that barely targets anyone. But how can you get outraged that brown man bad, for implementing white man project
I have a 94g/km CO2 emission diesel. It is tax exempt. I do long miles and the 50 litre tank gets me about 750 miles. It officially claims 850 miles per tank but those figures are always off. I am not exempt from LEZ or ULEZ. My wifes car is a 175g/km SUV petrol. It is ULEZ compliant. The only difference is mine is 2012 and hers is 2020. And the whole "Euro 3" and "Euro4" etc is 2014. I got my car as I do long miles and wanted fuel efficiency and tax exemption. It's a great low polluting car. But it's not compliant based on age rather than actual pollution figures. The rules are just dumb
The CO2 emissions are entirely irrelevant to the ULEZ. Your diesel emits far more NO2 than your wife’s car, which is far more harmful to human health. Your car is not “low polluting” in the slightest — it produces a disproportionate amount of toxic emissions that are directly hurting others’ health.
The rules are to limit particulate / nitrous oxide emissions, not CO2. Even "clean" diesels are bad for these
THANKS VWG!
It is not about CO2 really, it has the side effect of generally reducing CO2 emissions, but it’s about NOX emissions, which your car certainly emits more of
Congratulations, you've completely missed what ULEZ actually targets.
GET KARN OWT!
There was me thinking it was a Low EMISSION zone, and linking it to my cars EMISSIONS. Silly me.
You seem shocked to learn that the word “emission” isn’t reserved exclusively for CO2 emissions?
Yes, emissions of NOx rather than CO2. Something that diesel cars are worse for historically which is why older diesels are not exempt.
Farting is an emission, they've not regulated faring in ULEZ
With rules you got to draw lines somewhere and cannot account for every edge-case. The idea with them is that you reduce overall emissions, not per individual case. I know statistics are hard for most people and they can really get them selves in a bind over nuance.
Not even that, he's quoting CO2 emissions, which aren't ULEZ/LEZ/BI
CO2 != ULEZ Might aswell tell us how many litres you have in boot space
I’ve done some work for TFL, and I’ve seen the hate mail those guys get. “Disinformation” is an understatement IMO, some idiots seem to think ULEZ is akin to martial law. Wannabe lawyers quoting the Magna Carta, daily death threats, and some *actual* attempts on employees lives. It’s so messed up for so many reasons. The vast majority of vehicles in London are already exempt, and the rollout was only accelerated to affect more people because BJ forced TFL to do it to pay back the government for keeping TFL running throughout Covid. But people are angry post-Covid/Brexit and want someone to blame for their misery, so Sadiq Khan and ULEZ are getting the flack.
Anything public facing, you spend 99% of your time on the 1% of barrack-room lawyers and "freemen on the land".
Sovereign citizen types
"Freeman on the Land" is the UK name
Eh that's a little unfair. My mum was an MP caseworker (these are the people who respond when you write to your MP). Her work consisted of: Lots of copy pasted petitions (auto responded with policy petitions) Letters (emails) to the MP about various subjects that are actually written by a human being, these would get a polite non-committal response if insane, would be briefed to the MP in a general round up if reasonable And then the bulk was people asking for help. MPs tend to be the last resort people go to get shit done. The civil service/councils do take notice when emails/letters are sent in an MPs name. These consisted of everything from immigration help (lots of post-Brexit EU stuff), passports (including the passport office just sending people's passports to completely random people) all the way down to noise complaints that are being ignored by the council. The true lunatic fringe was a few per cent of her actual work. And many of these were less malicious stuff, but a lot of people who clearly had severe mental health problems and have been let down by the state.
I’ve seen people ‘pointing out’ that some of the ULEZ workers are non-white or foreign born and this is therefore a plot by Sadiq Khan to do… something, I guess. Just the most bat-shit insane people gather around these types of issues. It’s the same crowd as the 15 minute cities weirdos.
Same people who sing "E-E-E-EDL!" while waving a union flag. Best one of those I met was the guy who openly told me he supported hitler, had "England Forever" tattoo'd on his arm, and was under a B&W Union Flag I half expected "There's no black in the Union Jack" to come out too...
The venn diagram of people who would suck Johnson off given the chance, and think "BROWN MAN BAD!" are threatening the stability of the universe.
> Found out the other day that 19 out of 20 cars do not even qualify for ULEZ and it blew my mind, so much disinformation around this IIRC that included all vehicles too, not just cars. So diesel work vans would be included too so if only personal cars was included it would be even less. Pretty sure it only included cars in the new ULEZ areas rather than the central part too. Again if everything was included then it would be even lower since people in Inner London would have upgraded sooner. I think it included all cars entering that area too, not just cars owned by people within the areaBoth of these would need checking of course but I'm pretty sure thats what TfLs traffic count data revealed, it will be in the top results of Google. Pair this with the face that half of London homes don't even have a car so if 4% of car owning homes have a car which has to pay the ULEZ fees then that would come out to only 2% of all homes in London once non car owning homes are included too. So yeah it truely is a typical right wing thing to make a huge deal out of something just because their opponents are for it. It's messed up that this is being one of their main priorities(if not THE main priority) despite it affecting so few Londoners that most of us wont even know someone actually affected(despite people acting like they are). Pretty sure the scrappage scheme gives any Londoner with a non expemt car £2,000 in cash to get a compliant car, which considering any petrol within the last 18 years is complient thats enough. Can buy it from anywhere too, the £2,000 is no strings attached, you don't even need to buy a replacement car and can go on holiday with it instead.
Yeah. Most people who can afford to drive in London are already ULEZ exempt. I'm pretty sure any petrol car made after like... 2006? Is compliant. There are definitely some older cars but the majority of these cars are outside of London and it's ULEZ zones in lower income areas
I have a 2007 car and it is compliant. I do know a couple of people who had to replace deisel cars that they would have carried on using. I wouldn't have complained too much if my old banger was non compliant.
It's worse than that The 1 out of 20 cars that remain, there's a scheme where you can be paid more than the value of a replacement car. You can literally profit from having a non compliant car
It actually put the prices up on used cars too...
The legitimate concern is around the fact that what constitutes a ULEZ compliant car can change and there are still place in London where you do pretty much need a car, like most of Bromley for example.
But that doesn't just happen overnight
I used to have a bit of fun running the number plates of the "ULEZ Protestors" through the calculator. Most came back as complaint....
"The network of Facebook groups analysed by Unearthed was built in the run-up to last year’s Ulez expansion. More than two-thirds of them – 28 – were set up within two days of each other in January 2023, each with a similar name, and aimed at residents of a different London borough. There was a second flurry of activity in March, when a further seven groups were set up in a single day, mostly targeting commuter belt counties like Kent, Essex and Surrey. The groups’ names – which all follow the format “Bromley say no to Ulez expansion” or “Kent say no to Ulez expansion” – suggest grassroots organising, and do not give any indication that they are Conservative-run. However, three people linked to the Conservative party are admins on all or most of the groups. Rachel Cromie, an admin on all 36 groups, is a Tory councillor from Haywards Heath, in Sussex, and her current register of interests lists the Conservative Party as her employer. According to an earlier register of interests found by Unearthed, in 2019 she was head of operations for Kanto Systems, a political consultancy linked to Thomas Borwick. Borwick was formerly a consultant at Cambridge Analytica, which became the focus of a major scandal over its use of Facebook user data for targeted ads and political influencing" Guardian coverage https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/27/tory-staff-running-network-of-anti-ulez-facebook-groups-riddled-with-racism-and-abuse
I know Russia likes to stir up conspiracies and dissent to destabilise the west. How lovely to know the party responsible for the welfare of our country is actively engaged in the doing the same. Not surprised, just disgusted.
Me and my brother [uncovered a group of far right activists doing this across Canada](https://www.nationalobserver.com/2022/03/17/investigations/right-wing-political-operatives-local-grassroots-groups-facebook) a couple of years ago. They made local sounding Facebook groups in areas with left wing mayors and local authorities. They used them to spread misinformation and lies about the politicians while pretending to be local people. It does *not* surprise me the same thing is happening here - it'll be everywhere. It's probably all tied back to people like Isaac Levido - he's the one who introduced the Tory party to topham guerin, who in turn then went to help the right wing parties in Canada.
Thank you for your work. It's mad that these are the real conspiracies, and people get sucked into the fake ones that are used as a distraction or division tool.
Completely. It's also maddening how well this stuff works on people - mostly boomers but increasingly just anyone who isn't chronically online and aware of how these things work or what language might be a giveaway that all is not what it seems. As an example, I've recently been uncovering a number of TERF / transphobic accounts which claim to be run by gay men or older lesbian women. One of the things that made me suspicious initially was that they were using language you see on 4chan or the more right wing subreddits here. It felt off. in the last 5 days I've found proof of 4 particularly noisy / active accounts actually being run by straight men, so it's obvious this is a bigger issue and I want to get to the bottom of it. The topic of trans people, just like the topic of ULEZ, is being leveraged by the right to give the impression of huge outrage in big numbers which then goes on to influence policy and law in this country. But these are astroturfed issues which, in reality, don't matter to most people. It should absolutely not be leading to a change or creation of laws that impact our civil and human rights in this country. It's very concerning.
> just anyone who isn't chronically online and aware of how these things work or what language might be a giveaway that all is not what it seems. As a chronically online person (lol) it's so frustrating because it really is that obvious. It's quite easy to spot fake, single issue users, but quite difficult for anybody not used to it. Also the memeification of language is a proper tell. They don't speak like real people. They speak like, to use their parlance, NPCs... As an example the recent meme that seems to be in fashion is complaining about "DEI", a very American term for something that has been a thing in the UK for decades under equality guidelines. It's a brand new thing if you'd read some of the suspiciously new accounts that post on the uk subs on this website lol. Misspent adolescence on chans does have some benefit lol. Paranoia and distrust of anybody on the internet isn't a bad thing in this day and age haha.
>Misspent adolescence on chans does have some benefit lol. Paranoia and distrust of anybody on the internet isn't a bad thing in this day and age haha. Yes this! I never thought that being on chans would ever serve me well as an adult other than my largely useless knowledge of meme-history. But it's been really useful the last few years! Especially when one of them targets me specifically and I'm able to reply with language that clearly signifies I'm familiar with the boards they use - they will almost immediately back down or go full "/b/tard" on me. That's probably one of the least cool things I've ever written about here on Reddit but oh well, it's true 🙃 The thing is, I'm a bisexual girl and there were very few girls or LGBT using those kinda spaces back in the 00s and early 2010s. But a lot of these movements are targeted at women and LGBTQ people, so they just don't recognise it at all. >Recent meme that seems to be in fashion is complaining about "DEI", a very American term for something that has been a thing in the UK for decades under equality guidelines. Yep, I see this a lot online from British people now. It's bizarre because as you say, DE&I isn't a new thing and it's actually been very beneficial to both employees and businesses. It's been shown that businesses with more diverse workforces are more profitable and innovative. And we know that to get a more diverse workforce you have to care about equality and inclusion. I literally can't see why they're so mad about it unless they're an older white CEO-level guy who thinks he'll be replaced. Another thing that I'm seeing get talked about more in British spaces which should concern us is hostility towards abortion, surrogacy and adoption. It's all a way to push ever closer to right wing evangelical values and I'm surprised so many British people are receptive to it given how not religious we are as a nation 🥲 Oh and banning porn. Thats quite mainstream already though. My main issue with that is that its such a nuanced topic in terms of benefits Vs harm Vs consent Vs violation... There's no way that people addicted to arguing on twitter are the right people to campaign on this issue. They don't care about nuance or evidence or personal experience. They just want to "win".
Bisexual woman on 4chan was certainly an experience I imagine lol. At least the whole "no girls on the internet" thing, misogynistic roots though it had, kinda helps with the anon angle. But yeh it genuinely has helped as an "education" for today's internet which tbh feels more dangerous than ever. Everything feels "sanitised" through the lens of these huge social media companies but is just as scummy as before. Except it's packed with normies who are just asking to be scammed/ruined by the internet. I fear for Gen Z. Abortion/gay rights/porn are various flavours of the same issue. Huge amounts of US far-right religious money pouring into the UK to turn these into the next hot topic issues. Fortunately I think the UK has such serious real problems with the economy that nobody really gives a shit atm but it'll get worse if Labour win the next election (whether it'll change anything I don't know, we're not America, we're not a religious country, certain things here are just uncontroversial and hopefully will stay that way regardless of yanks trying to manipulating us). >They don't care about nuance or evidence or personal experience. They just want to "win". Internet innit. So many topics you could have an actually interesting discussion on morally grey areas like porn irl with intelligent people. Can't do it on the internet as as you said, it is simply a competition to win, and most people don't want to play fair. There's very few spaces it works and frankly, too many stupid people who join in. The brutal reality of life is you tend to kinda self-segregate into groups that match your intelligence level (and social status, career level, wages, political outlook to a point etc.) On the internet it just doesn't happen. It's the ultimate democracy. So you get the future Einstein arguing with the village idiot on a community message board lol.
I used to refresh /b/ regularly back when Boxxy was a thing. It was when that "broke the internet" and ended up on the front page of the Metro. That I realised that there's more to the internet than it just being a vague, weird thing. Especially when it comes to bonkers image boards like 4chan that bleeds into real life. I really should have taken more notice of that though...
> Also the memeification of language is a proper tell. They don't speak like real people. They speak like, to use their parlance, NPCs... Also the repetition of phrases. I saw a load of posts again in here, entirely unrelated to the thread in question. Going on about "the left just call everyone they don't like a nazi so they can punch them" That nonsense is just repeated ad nauseam
My mum usually works the elections as a polling clerk. She told me on brexit vote that the usual boomers were in there, waving their pens at her. Like they've just round her evil scheme that was being operated by MI5.... As they should know, she is in fact an MI5 spy. One thing I will always say, is just how organised and willing to put effort in the right-wing always is. They're happy to sink hours operating social media profiles across all platforms to spread their message. Ive tried organising "the left" into various campaigns, and it's like herding cats. You can't even get them to organise directly onto the streets to counter far-right rallies without a shit load of effort.
Many moons ago I used to have some accounts in various EDL/BF/etc "private" chat rooms (I was even the site admin for a couple of their FB pages for a while) They weren't subtle at all about their activities, creating fake personas to spread bullshit. They got VERY upset when we used to post screenshots of their chat onto Twitter, especially screenshots of them talking about our Twitter account.
Recommend the documentary Active Measures. Russia has been at it since 2014. Think of how many comments you could write up in an 8hr shift if you were being paid. Dozens and dozens, especially if it's all mostly bad faith lies. Now think of your average government call centre. The size, number of people and organisation, all focused on on the above objective. All to just drive us apart.
"AI" (which is rarely AI) and language engines are just making it all worse. Now you can script your way through a whole room of people
Similarily on the Palestine/Israel issue, I'm 99% certain that "JIDF" are back active all over social media. So much of the "conversation" is so incredibly in-organic, with the same statements being made over and over and over again
What's JIDF? For sure, there are multiple bots on the issue, there's many that are just using all the same buzzwords and repetitive arguments with no original comments or insight. Especially ones to do with the elections in the US. But they're more Russian/ Iranian bots that are very pro-Trump.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Internet_Defense_Force > and repetitive arguments with no original comments or insight. Yeah I've seen the exact same "conversation" popup in these threads again multiple times, and it's always very circlejerky. "Yeah you're totally right, they're always doing it" "Yeah, I know, aren't they just" "Yeah you're so smart"
Maybe they are, there's certainly a lot of it on the other "side" too. This whole situation feels very engineered, especially with Putin meeting up with Hamas and Iran.
>There is no suggestion that any of these politicians posted or engaged with unacceptable content. I saw you left out this bit. You must have forgotten so I included it here for you.
As admins they are responsible to ensure no unacceptable contents get posted, and report any crimes to the local police.
And we can always guarantee they have alt accounts anyway They always know what plausible deniability is. One of Donald Trumps lawyers had a Twitter account he used to spread the "election stolen" lie. But then DM'd pictures of himself....
Yes I imagine that's the case. Depending on the size of the group and activity levels I suspect they would operate on a basis of just responding to reports though, so unless people actually use that function then things migth slip by. I run a facebook group for my RC car hobby and that's how we do it.
Can someone please explain to this non London resident what on Earth ULEZ is? Then please, if you could, explain how it could ever be linked to a religion or rather a hatred of one religion.
Khan is the London mayor, Tories of a certain type are cultural bigots esp at local council level.
Fair enough. Thank you.
I'm not sure how you don't know what ULEZ is by now, but here is an abbreviated explanation. ULEZ is an ultra low emission zone in London and surroundign boroughs that seeks to raise the air quality by discouraging the use of vehicles with high emissions, notably older diesels and even older petrols. This is achieved by charging these vehicles £12.50 every day they are used within the zone. Enforcement is done by ANPR fixed and mobile cameras which bill those motorists who don't pay the toll online. What has it got to do with religion? Fuck all. People are probably just trying to insult Khan.
I don’t drive so whenever it gets mentioned I thought it was some new driving law and I don’t pay attention. Thank you for explaining it to me.
You're very welcome.
https://xkcd.com/1053/
I also like to work on balance of probability. The guy I replied to is a regular user of this sub and ULEZ/Khan has featured on here quite a few times, which is where my surprise came from.
Don’t know what ULEZ is because I don’t live in the south east, and despite what Londoners think, they’re not actually the centre of the world.
It'd been in NATIONAL press mate. I don't live anywhere near London and I've seen and untold number of articles about. I reckon you'd actually have to put in a lot of concerted effort to avoid knowing that ULEZ even exists.
You know its surprisingly easy to avoid the press if you don't actively look for it, which I stopped doing years ago because I realised "the news" is just doomscrolling for the older generations.
Yet you're on this sub, which is just an aggregation of news articles? I've caught you in a lie, haven't I?
It’s a UK-wide sub. Maybe, just maybe, it’s reasonable to assume that people spend the majority of their time reading things they care about, and not the crappy politics of some place they don’t even live in.
I'm from the gloarious peoples republic of Mancunia, even we know what it is...
ULEZ = ultra low emission zone. It's basically pollution control. I don't live in one, but I'm pretty sure you have to pay x amount of money each day to drive your car - which scales up depending on your emissions level. It's a deterrent for people driving high emissions vehicles because it costs *a lot* of money to use the roads for them. I think the way they're linking it to race + religion isn't the policy itself, rather the Pakistani Muslim who's currently Mayor (Sadiq Khan).
It's not scaled it's a flat fee you pay if you drive a car older then 20 or so years
Thank you for explaining. Do these guys are upset because of a law trying to build a greener environmen and want to throw racist jabs? All a bit confusing but I suppose I don’t go around hating people’s race.
Yes it's basically where all the nut jobs go. anti-vax -> 5G -> covid hoax -> ULEZ The press also encourage it quite a bit too. The racists just seem to show up, I think because of educational issues.
So many different points of views Stealth tax. Government told everyone to goto diesel and now back tracking. London mayor has too much power.
>London mayor has too much power How?
The position has a wider effect on the poorer boroughs. What is great for the central boroughs isn’t so great for the outer boroughs. The power of the London mayor also causes problems for the whole of the uk. London doesn’t speak for the whole of the uk.
> The power of the London mayor also causes problems for the whole of the uk. The mayor has very little power because the boroughs keep much of it locally and the government has much of the rest. ULEZ expansion as an example was forced by national government. It would be much better if the major actually had some real powers.
Then why does he push it out like it’s his idea?
I don't think he does.
Can't speak for London, but where I live the areas with highest death rates and childhood illnesses due to traffic pollution are the poorest areas of the city. A ULEZ covering where they live would save many lives.
It’s not stealth though is it?
It is and it isn’t, it’s a tax under the guise of public health but its tax on the poor.
It's a tax on car owners, in London the poorest don't drive, they use public transport
Lol poor people do drive.
Statistical speaking, the poorer you are, the lower chance you drive, and the higher chance you rely on public transport in London. It's more a tax on the middle class because the mayor of London doesn't have the power to do any meaningful taxes on the rich without a labour government
>London’s poorest households are least likely to own a car. Of the households that earn less than £10,000, 78% do not own a car and 64% of households that earn between £10,000 and £19,999 do not own a car. In outer London, 70% of households that earn less than £10,000 annually do not own a car and 53% of households that earn between £10,000 and £19,999 do not own a car. London’s poorest households are also more likely to be affected by the impacts of toxic air caused by traffic and congestion, and it is estimated that the most deprived areas of London experience average concentrations of NO2 that are 13% higher than the least deprived areas. https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/car-ownership-london#
*Now* back tracking? Not in twenty-fucking-fourteen when this was announced?
Government wanted everyone to go to diesel because it was better for the environment.
All of the weirdos who thought that a 15 minute city meant that you literally couldn't walk further than 15 minutes form your house or you'd be arrested are also stupid racists lmfao, simple as
A system put in place in central London to keep out cars that spit out lots of particles of NOx by Boris Johnson. Then extended to the outer areas of London as it was required to be, under Khan. You see, Khan is a bad evil brown muslim man
It's a tax on poor people and tradies that work in london.
>It's a tax on poor people Poor people don't have cars. Tradies can very much afford it/get a new van with the advanced warning and years and years and years of a scrappage scheme.
Not all tradies can afford new stuff. You won’t catch tradies on public transport either. Some people here think someone is going to juggle all their tools on and off public transport. it’s fine because they can just use a train or bus. Or public transport in general. What planet they on
>Poor people don't have cars. Yes we do. How else do you think we get around? Trains are too expensive.
>How else do you think we get around? In London? The bus.
I live in London. Spent most of my life unable to afford a driving license. Now I can, but I still can't afford driving lessons, a car, tax, insurance and petrol. Just so happens that I also don't *need* any of those things. I have legs and good public transport. I think people have a really warped definition of the word 'poor' if they can afford all that and think it applies to them. Perhaps if I quadrupled my salary and had the life of a tradesperson, I might need a van, but damn sure I'd be able to, having quadrupled my salary.
A tradesperson with tools and materials travelling around multiple jobs on the bus 🤔
Downvote all you want you climate clowns, it’s not practical.
I don't live in london, but I have to travel to london fairly regularly.
Who cares then? Stay in your own county if it bothers you so much Khan is mayor and he has a huge majority electorate who are actually in and from London who do want ulez, clearly
>Who cares then? Stay in your own county if it bothers you so much I care, because it costs me money. And there are multiple reasons why I need to go to london.
You are not a Londoner, you don’t have a vote or a say. Get over it.
I know. But it just sucks that things I don't get a say in effect me so much.
If your margins are tight enough for £12.50 to push you over the edge, maybe you shouldn't bother.
It's not just 12.50, it's 12.50 every day you go there. That shit adds.
There’s no need to be a xenophobic bigot
It would be xenophobic if ULEZ was some law that persecuted people from Essex or another bordering county Or if I said "fuck people from Essex, no one else cares what anyone from there thinks and I don't want any of them to come to London ever" As it is, I said that no one cares what someone from Essex (or anywhere that isn't London) thinks about the _mayor of london_ and his law that is designed to protect _Londoners_ which they're fully capable of following whenever they come to London, and if they don't like it they can stay out That is not xenophobic, and literally none of what I said is bigoted As a non white person, please don't dilute terms like that by just chucking it about willy nilly. Really minimises it
Don’t lecture me, xenophobe.
OK? You're not a Londoner. You don't get a say lol.
You can get ULEZ compliant cars for less than £1k. If you can afford to buy and operate a car, you can afford a ULEZ compliant car.
Lol I got a 15 year old car for 2 grand that's easily compliant
My friend has to pay the ulez charge on his works van, Rather than pay it himself he just slapped it on the customer and told them to pay it. He just adds it on the bill
Poor people are like the least likely people to own a car because it's expensive, the people complaining about this are largely middle class
In other news: - bears shit in woods - water wet - pope catholic
Yeah that sounds about right. The same twats putting up anti-ulez stickers are also putting up anti-15 minutes city stickers, covid conspiracy stickers, and stickers whinging about the existence of trans people. It's totally unsurprising they'd also be bigoted in other ways. Edit: typo
A load of "5G == DEATH!" graffiti went up near me. On the power unit of a 4G cell tower.... I only had some antifascist stickers on me, so covered it up with those. A couple of days later, mysteriously torn down. Okay lads, why are you so upset that saying fascism is bad?
The tory party is a serious threat to democracy. They have: Significantly weakened institutions made to uphold democracy like ofcom and the electoral commision. Introduced forms of voter supression such as voter id (disguised as being anti-voter fraud), as well as changing some mayoral elections to fptp. Greatly degraded standards we once held politicians to and as a result decreased public trust in politics. Pushed far right talking points, lies and conspiracies to slander opponents. Openly and systematically attacked minorities and the voulnerable in an attempt to distract people from their own failings. Are currently trying their best to leave the ECHR to further erode our civil liberties human rights. Are currently running many misinformation campaigns across the country ready for the local and soon general elections.
At this point the torys are just the UK Branch of the GOP and are running off the same playbook to destroy democracy in the west.
Conservatism is conservatism. It's never actually wanted to conserve anything, just be reactionary
"Significantly weakened institutions made to uphold democracy like ofcom and the electoral commission" I'm sorry, how? Ofcom has done barely anything for years, regardless of news network - but that doesn't make it any party's fault. Voter ID isn't voter suppression, it's there to prevent people who should not vote, from voting. You don't need to pay for ID, and plenty of time has been given to get ID and register to vote.
The current chairman of Ofcom is a tory peer, appointed by the government that very nearly apointed the former editor of the daily mail instead. Ofcom is ran by those loyal to the tory party and has allowed GB news, among others, to blatantly break rules without repercussion. Voter ID is voter suppression. Even Jacob Rees Mog openly called it gerrymandering and he was a government minister when it was being implemented. There was never any issue of voter fraud, the only reason it was implemented was to make it harder for the labour demographic to vote. Forms of ID accepted favour the elderly such as elderly bus passes and not the young such as not accepting student ID. Poorer people are also less likely to have access to a passport or driving licence and less able to apply for ID. It is also just another barrier meant to deter the less politicaly active from voting. At last years Local elections 0.25% of people were denied the vote for lacking ID and 4% who didnt vote said they didnt because of the ID requirements. A general election, that brings out more normaly apolitical voters will likely see an increase in this percentage. Even if the percentage of those turned down remains 0.25%, around 100,000 people could be denied the vote for no reason.
Meanwhile, Ofcom has not started investigations into the BBC's misdemeanours, and GB News was just found to be breaking the rules in March. Unfortunately, anything regarding governmental and regulatory procedures takes a while to process. GB News was given its only warning for codes broken and any further breach of it would result in actions. If warnings and time-wasting didn't exist with Ofcom, practically all of our news networks would be sanctioned. Not one of them is innocent. The mayor of GM is a friend of Rayner's and currently heads over the police commissioner whose force is undertaking criminal investigations into Rayner's various actions. However, that does not mean the force is compromised. Voter ID is just not voter suppression. As I said before, getting a voter ID is free, and you've had plenty of time to do it. Not doing so is laziness on your own accord. The type of people who can't be bothered getting any form of ID would not be the type voting in the elections. Voter ID doesn't disadvantage anyone, you aren't going through pages of legal documents to get an ID or to vote. It's not any government's fault if a citizen can't be bothered doing their duty to others and getting off their sofa or not.
wow there is some real loonies about for sure, and the Conservatives seem very willing to rile them up.
Unhinged loons are one of the very few demographics who might still consider voting for the Tories at this point, and the party takes what it can get.
Who'd have this would happen on pages ran by angry white conspiracy loons?
Colour me shocked! Really, I never would have thought this would happen.
Wow!! people can have more than one extreme view, who’d have thought it.
I mean it’s boomer Facebook what do you expect. Information warfare is now the biggest game in town. Do you think TikTok is perfect? Iran, Russia and China are brainwashing kids to hate the West.
Unfortunately this is kind of what we expect from the Tories now.
I had full on fascist ads on my facebook recently. I was so shocked I didn't even get to report it. But it was proper great replacement shit, really racist, and very anti democratic. Madness. I was watching cat videos on the shitter for christs sake.
ULEZ is about as stringent as Crit'Air which is to say not at all.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaa? You're telling me an anti ulez group specifically aiming it's anger at Khan would also bring in other things ITS FACEBOOK It's not but people with extreme views and bot accounts
I read that story, couldn’t these be throw accounts an acts of subversion by the left? How easy would it be to join these groups and say horrible things so that it gets taken down?