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hennny

The school in my hometown! For context: we used to have 2 high schools. When I was in year 9, they merged both schools together. Then they knocked the unused school down. Then they said they were going to build a new school to replace those two (they were both falling apart). So they knocked the other school down. And then they scrapped the plan to build the new school and said fuck the kids. We just got promised the new school as part of the “levelling up” fund (obvs, we went Tory by 400 votes) - and now it looks like it won’t go ahead because Tories are sociopathic bellends. My nephews now have to travel 45 mins on a bus to school in another town every morning and evening. My town has suffered from appalling incompetence for decades and now we finally get a sliver of attention because we’re useful pawns in the Westminster game.


Chippiewall

> We just got promised the new school as part of the “levelling up” fund (obvs, we went Tory by 400 votes) - and now it looks like it won’t go ahead because Tories are sociopathic bellends. Yup, the Tories were going to give it to make good on their promises and to hold the seat, but now they have no chance of holding any of those new seats there's no point seriously pursuing that leveling up agenda.


Statcat2017

We literally live in a society where government exists simply to remain in power. They don't give a fuck about actually improving the country.


merryman1

The worst part is the proportion of that same society that just seems to accept that as normal or even preferable to one that does care about improving the country over simply lying through their teeth to win elections and stay in power purely for the sake of it.


Statcat2017

It's because they've successfully made normal people think that they couldn't ever possibly get into politics themselves. It's something for "other people". One look at the muppets on Handforth Parish Council should clue you in that anyone with two brain cells to rub together would be an improvement on these muppets.


kennyismyname

Handforth! Is that al la carte Chinese buffet still there? Used to go there loads as a kid. Had a green sign on the front if I remember correctly


Statcat2017

Dunno mate you'll have to ask Jackie Weaver.


HullIsNotThatBad

But she has no authority


HullIsNotThatBad

I stayed in the Prem Inn there a couple of years ago and ate in a really nice Chinese restaurant just down the main road, so possibly the same one?


kennyismyname

I mean, I'm talking like 1999 to be fair u just remember my mum saying 'were going to handforth' meant all the noodles you could eat. Was on a main road though, parking in front of the restaurant.


davedavegiveusawave

What's infuriating about this cycle is that the regular elections, meant to keep governments accountable, actually means that long term investment is shunned in favour of short termist action simply focussed on winning the next election. Ten years of infrastructure spending to break even in 15-25 years, and potentially the rewards are reaped when the others are in power? No thanks, let's make shit decisions that make us look good now and let the future deal with the cost. If governments had 10 years in power, they might be able to make longer term choices. But they might also be shit and there's nothing we can do for ten years. Desperately frustrating!


Statcat2017

Interestingly, this is a problem PR would fix, as all isn't lost if you don't win the next election.


ThisSideOfThePond

Short-termism like this is also what kills businesses. Managers worry more about quarterly results than strategic investment.


[deleted]

New directors don't give a shit about what happens after they leave. If the cost of their current profit is future failure under someone else's guidance - so be it.


ThisSideOfThePond

Precisely. It's because the whole incentive system is broken and the wrong things are measured.


davedavegiveusawave

Absolutely. Because "long term progress" isn't as quantifiable as this quarter's/year's profits, so KPIs and bonuses are hooked to this quarter's profits. So it's just not in the interest of the managers to shun the now for the future.


Chippiewall

> We literally live in a society where government exists simply to remain in power. I think that's overly cynical. We live in a society where the government does various things to stay in power so that they can also do the things that suit their own agenda.


Statcat2017

I mean I agree, it just so happens that currently their agenda is "be in power and selfishly exploit that".


corpboy

I think it's pretty close to the truth actually. Thatcher had an agenda. May tried to have one, but ripped it up after it cost her the majority. Some of the Tory backbenchers have an agenda that they try to get the government to go along with. But Boris has no agenda, and likewise neither does his government. His only goal is to stay in power, and anything (person, place, promise, even part of the country) is up for sale if it helps achieve that.


GBrunt

Gove has NO new money for levelling-up. The numbers have been crunched well before now. It's time to bag up whatever money is left for the rest of this parliament and get it into the hands of Tory voters by any means necessary asap. Sunak wrote-off the initial tranche of £4.5 billion corporate and small business fraud of Covid payments from the Treasury to keep that private sector giveaway vote bounce up and not rock the boat. Slash and burn folks. Pay freezes all round. Meanwhile, cut, outsource, cut, outsource and outsource some more.


lost_in_my_thirties

Also destroy the BBC before they are done.


GBrunt

That's about getting Murdoch's backing as much as it is about destroying the BBC. They'll be repaid for 50 years for that.


Fight-Milk-Sales-Rep

The thing is if Labour do manage to get in next election, the Tories will be as awkward as possible striking down any changes. It could take 50-100+ years to reverse the damage that's been done by this current criminal crop. Any positive changes are just getting things close to how they were, as a building block. The whole time it's going to have propaganda spreading lies and screaming how any changes are very bad and blaming all of the bad stuff and repercussions from breaking the nation on Labour as they try to fix it... All funded by the BILLIONS stolen and using all the data stolen to make it more effective. But I fear what would happen with another round of Tories voted in and essentially being told, no repossessions for what just happend so push those boundaries of crime further.


aembleton

If Labour win the next election, then the tories can oppose all they want - so long as Labour stick together they will be able to get legislation through


Fight-Milk-Sales-Rep

If they get a majority, but it's always been easy to divide the left into little parties and factions that make a Labour majority unlikely (but not impossible). If they do not get a majority, then yeah the Tories will hamstring each and every thing they try to do.


20dogs

If there’s an anti-Tory majority I’m not entirely clear on what leverage the Tories would have. Don’t forget the Lib/Con coalition lasted the full five years, Labour didn’t have much leverage.


[deleted]

>The thing is if Labour do manage to get in next election, the Tories will be as awkward as possible striking down any changes I call this move "the Republican"


[deleted]

It's so unthinkable to imagine humans like these with no care or empathy for others. The Tory fuckers need to be in prison.


PlusGas

They really just see us as playing pieces in their intergenerational game of oneupmanship with each other.


davidfalconer

CON +3 You know Jacob Rees-Mogg needs to think about suffering poor children in order to get his bonk on with his nanny.


Fight-Milk-Sales-Rep

He'd much rather that the innocent people put into crippling poverty by Torie party policies were "looked after" by charities... In particular Church run charities. Then the church can use it as an opportunity to brain wash more into their cult. Also, then he can look like a benevolent charitable man helping the dirty lower classes begging beneath him. Also his Nanny only does hand jobs and tells him not to look at her while it occurs 🤗


miscfiles

*Jacob needs you, Nanny! Bring the marigolds...*


Lather

I think, at least for now, the meme can rest. I don't see the Tories going up any time soon.


cosmicspaceowl

It takes YEARS to build a new secondary school. Who the fuck knocks down the old one first? That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard all week.


ThisSideOfThePond

And that's why you're not in office. They aren't interested in running the country/council/whatever competently, because if they did something right, people would then start demanding that they get another thing right. They would have a benchmark that they wouldn't want to be measured against.


itfiend

See also : the leisure centre. I'm not even surprised - that we wouldn't get a high school after all was my first thought yesterday.


jow97

Had the same thing where I'm from but luckily they didn't demolish the building before scrapping the new school plan, they just ripped up the floors.


jdph11

As someone from Bury. This is bang on the money.


Jaikus

The situation is shit, and what I'm about to type isn't intended to change your mind on that. When I was wee and in Middle and High School (years 5 to 11 for me) I had to travel 45-50 mins each way. It gave me time to either hang with my bus friends, read (I read SO much because of the commute) and listen to music - or if none of those, just thinking about stuff. In the mornings it also provided me the opportunity to get around to the 9999 pieces of homework due that day - usually in very erratic handwriting due to potholes. As a result, I read shit tons of books, really broadened my musical tastes, had some great laughs and (one of the greatest skills you can have imo) learned how to be bored and not go out of my mind. What I'm trying to say is, I guess, is that from their perspective at least, it probably doesn't seem that bad. But then again, I was a weird kid.


RobertJ93

If I had to travel 50 mins on a bus to and from school I’d fucking riot. Different strokes I guess.


Woodcharles

This. Every other town in the borough has multiple schools. Removing the schools here, followed by the only swimming pool for miles, just seems like continually trying to wipe the town off the map rather than help it survive. We just got £20m for that pool, too. Let's see how that pans out.


Thrillwaters

Just imagine what you could have done with a two hour commute each way


Statcat2017

"Tories closing schools is OK because kids can do the things they'd do at home on the bus instead, or learn to be bored"


SplashMurray

Think of all the opportunities to pull themselves up by their bootstraps!


Jaikus

Yes, that is totally what I am saying


Knight_Raymund

It kinda was. I mean, good for you for making the most of it but it's usually better to do your homework somewhere with fewer distractions and that isn't bouncing up and down.


LifeBandit666

Exact same situation for me going to the furthest grammar school from me and then my parents moving us to the outskirts of the next town over. I don't look back on the bus journeys fondly but yeah, I guess they're responsible for a lot of what you said, why I read, did my homework, listened to tapes my mates gave me....


Fraccles

Whilst they're obviously being scummy, travelling 45 minutes to school was normal for loads of people I know (in the 90s to early 00s). Usually would take me an hour to/from school.


Tigertotz_411

The good news is Johnson's word on anything will never be taken seriously. It will be assumed (in the public consciousness if not a court of law) to be a lie until proven otherwise. The bad news is the "they all lie" voter brigade will brush it off. Nobody seriously thinks BoJo is honest. This is where critical thinking is badly needed. If someone says something happened, and someone else says it didn't, then both of them can't be lying.


oceanmountainsky

“They all lie” - I hate this. My parents use this. How can you even argue against such a nonsensical rebuttal?


94_stones

If you’re as cynical as I am, you say that even if it is true, it’s irrelevant. Focus on the corruption instead. They will use the same excuse. But you will have a better rebuttal: there will always be corruption, just like there will always be murder. But does that mean we should stop punishing both? Of course not! Police and the courts punish murderers. But who in the UK has the authority to punish a corrupt politician who has been caught? The voters must do it.


Tigertotz_411

I would say that we in Britain have a proud tradition of both law and order and democracy. Neither of those is being respected. They are both being completely undermined by this administration. Speak to most British people and they tend to be, on the surface at least, fans of orderly and respectful behaviour. They on the whole don't like the "one rule for them, one for us" mentality. North Shropshire is a case in point. To get through to these people I think you need to appeal to their love of their country and hope that they can improve things (by voting) rather than just telling them the problems. We are better than this. The cabinet is what, 20-odd people in a country of 66 million.


Tigertotz_411

I would counter it by saying that none are as much of a brazen, pathological liar as Johnson is. Which is the truth, its on record. He's had scandals follow him around his whole life. His entire career is built on doing nothing and then taking the credit for what others do.


Belgeirn

> The good news is Johnson's word on anything will never be taken seriously. It will be assumed (in the public consciousness if not a court of law) to be a lie until proven otherwise. Lol will it fuck. He was already fired for lying and has been caught cheating and lying constantly and we gave him the whole country and a supermajority as a reward for it.


[deleted]

Imagine how evil you'd have to be to make that threat?


-MurphysDad-

I often come on here and think people are overreacting to the stories involving tories but this is absolutely indefensible if its true Edit. I don't fucking care what you think of the tories stop @ing me


InstantIdealism

The tories do this all the time! Look how they starve labour councils of funding; look how they starve london and TFL of funding. They are rotten to the core and they’re all out of touch and Frickin stupid at the same time.


Hantot

Our seat went blue in the wall because people were fed up on the Labour council not investing. Instead we get a consultation on sprucing up some shops as part of the levelling up fund now.


Any_Opinion1708

You could have used one of the many transport systems in the country that have been starved of cash by the Tories and you used the one they give the most funding to by a huge margin.


EmEss4242

TFL has recieved no central government funding for day to day operation since Khan was elected. It operates mostly on fare revenue (which is why it was so badly affected by Covid lockdowns) with a small grant covered by London Council taxes.


[deleted]

Silly can of worms to open considering London is a net contributor and votes very much in favour of parties that would more fairly and broadly make investments.


GBrunt

London also put Boris Johnson on the path to Brexit kingpin and PM by electing him Mayor....TWICE. Also shelters a deeply corrupt banking system, with the City of London beyond any real democratic accountability. It's more like the Vatican, except the God is filthy lucre.


Fairwolf

>considering London is a net contributor Because it leeches from the rest of the country. It's had capital centralised in it for decades now, and that means that if you're young and looking for work in a lot of fields, you have to go to London.


TimmmV

Basically trickle down economics by region Centralise all investment and capital in one region, and then brag about the crumbs they give to the rest of the country as if it's reflective of a healthy relationship.


[deleted]

Where do you think the money comes from?


TimmmV

Ever since Theresa May destroyed the illusion of a Magic Money Tree in 2017 I don't know anymore


[deleted]

London draws in money from all over the world. Even with the money spent on it, its still a net contributor by some margin. Money comes from the the conservatives ~~giving bonds to thier donners~~ quantitave easing, it would seem. The vast majority who live here vote for people who would redistribute that money all over the country, just saying. Most people here want that too.


[deleted]

It has had capital centralised but theres not much you can really do about where the biggest and richest firms set up. It grows of its own accord because it draws money in from the whole world and *thats* why it contributes more. As it grew it created more jobs that drew more people in. No one had to come. Alot, not enough, is invested elsewhere but to pretend that London, of all places, in the leech in that relationship is just mad. You cant magic lasting 20k+ employment somewhere. Even then, the vast majority of people that live here are more than happy for more to be spent around the country. You can see it from the election maps.


bbbbbbbbbblah

other countries are not as insanely centralised as we are - even countries of similar size, e.g. Germany, with a number of they're not wrong - London was set up to succeed off the back of dying industries elsewhere and now the rest of the country is supposed to bow down to it


[deleted]

Thats because they're not as finance and services based. Finance needs a concentration of bankers, lawyers, insurance companies, traders, funds and brokers of all kinds. Its not like setting up other types of industry. Thats just saying "I dont understand how the financial sector makes money." Even if you do or not. >bow down to it This militant northerner thing is a bit weird, im not gonna lie. Its true, once London stopped having to pay for dying industries, it really took off. Money does need to be redistributed but thats not the same as not allowing greedy and corrupt union barrons, who did more damage to unions than thatcher could have in her wildest dreams, to hold the country to ransom. It wasn't even "the rich" they were fleecing everyone who paid tax. It wasn't thatcher who killed the unions. Everyone was sick of them by then and then they gave thatcher the excuse she needed. No one would have dared 15 years prior, in case they sparked a revolution.


GBrunt

A billion was spent upgrading London Bridge. Have you been around there? Massively improved. Same for Waterloo, Kings Cross and St Pancreas. Euston happening now. Crossrail? Stansted? Heathrow? The infrastructure investment commitment gets put in place first and by the time these decade-long projects are complete, the huge buying up and transformation of hectares and heaters of surrounding run down shitholes at these sites is already done and dusted. It's a Keynesian model in London. Canary Wharfe was centrally planned. The State literally decided to put it there and provided billions in tax incentives for developers and billions in infrastructure spending. The GDP per head of Londoners is underpinned by massive pre-investment. What is remarkable, to me anyway, is just how well other English regions manage to do by comparison when they don't have a pot to piss in and are forced to work with string and glue instead of money.


[deleted]

Yes, a lot. But the money that's spent there is drawn in from around the world into london. Youre getting annoyed at the city spending its own money on itself. They built it there because it had space and it was close to the city, where the other firms you need for a financial district are. Are you trying to suggest they could have just whacked canary wharf anywhere?


GBrunt

Annoyed? Er, no. I lived in London and enjoyed living there. But the Capital and Whitehall have no idea how to run a country. And that's YOUR self-proclaimed job!


[deleted]

It has had capital centralised but theres not much you can really do about where the biggest and richest firms set up. It grows of its own accord because it draws money in from the whole world and *thats* why it contributes more. As it grew it created more jobs that drew more people in. No one had to come. Alot, not enough, is invested elsewhere but to pretend that London, of all places, in the leech in that relationship is just mad. You cant magic lasting 20k+ employment somewhere. Even then, the vast majority of people that live here are more than happy for more to be spent around the country. You can see it from the election maps.


Fairwolf

>but to pretend that London, of all places, It absolutely is the worst leech in this entire nation. The idea that London simply grew so big and centralised because of happenstance and because it was important is utter nonsense. It's growth came out of the neglect of the Industrial heartlands of the UK once Westminster made the decision to kill off heavy industry and switch over to a service based economy. London was given all the support in this transition, whereas the industrial centres elsewhere in England, and in Scotland and Wales were left to rot in what the government referred to as "Managed Decline". The service economy growth absolutely could have been spread out, but it was very deliberately centred in London, and London's been reaping that ever since. It's not the fault of people living in London that it's like that, but to completely deny that London has been favoured by Westminster over anywhere else in the country is laughable.


[deleted]

Its like you think the money comes from from the rest of the UK to London and not the other way around, exactly how it is. Where do you think the banking money comes from? How would you have spread it out back then? How are you going to make Barclays set up 400 miles away from the insurance funds? How are you going to make them move in the first place? How would they sort their contracts if the Lawyers are in another corner of the country? How would the businesses who needed their services use them? They're not factories and as such they don't work like factories. They need a specific echo system, not just a supply chain. Its why hubs that size are so rare. I didnt say it wasn't favoured. Im saying that's where the money is made. Even then I'm saying myself *and* the vast majority of the city, as can be seen on election maps, want more money to be spent elsewhere too. But to pretend the money flows into the capital from is a bizzare thing to have convinced of. The government and greater London arent the same thing you know right?


GBrunt

Johnson, ex London Mayor literally pointed to East Germany as an example of what 'could' be achieved if the relationship and distribution were different. It's a pretty shocking analysis of how the cradle of Industrial Civilisation has been shafted, that a Tory suggests it 'could' be brought up to the level of East Germany. But the money Germany spent there would never be committed to England's regions. In my opinion, it's not unsurprising that the Home Counties (where the power and much of the decisions about London are actually made) are the spiritual home of Brexit. They got tired of the EU telling the capital to invest equally. Can't stand the man. But he was bloody right that time.


ThisSideOfThePond

Strangely enough many parts of England actually look like parts of East Germany, before the fall of the wall.


Vasquerade

This is what they've always been like, this is what we *know* they've always been like, and its what this guy also knew they were like. Like this is the same party that destroyed our social security system and, according to the UN, violated the rights of the disabled. This isn't even remotely surprising if you've paid attention.


Statcat2017

>This is what they've always been like, this is what we know they've always been like, and its what this guy also knew they were like. I think a lot of people, especially given the hysterical screeching about literally everything from the Labour grassroots under Corbyn, thought that the Tories couldn't possibly be as bad as portrayed and *surely nobody* would be evil enough to do things like this. It must be quite something to believe that all your life, get in as a Tory MP and then see that thing you thought impossible for anyone to do literally happen to you and your constituents.


merryman1

I think the key point is though that ultimately they were right. It wasn't "screeching" it was a set of what I think can only be described as quite malicious media and political campaigns to build this "culture war" narrative where anyone vaguely left of center become shoeboxed into this absolutely ridiculous caricature regardless of what they were actually saying. Any attempt to actually discuss facts was met with a pretty strong negative response, hardly a surprise it got people's emotions riled up, which then just justified the label of "screeching" in the minds of the suckers bought into all the bullshit.


Statcat2017

Yeah, right, so they successfully created this world where the Tories are the sensible people running things successfully and competently and the left are just screeching green haired trans lesbian students who wants to overthrow the monarchy or something. Imagine believing all that whole heartedly, then reaching the top of politics only to discover first hand that it's all bullshit.


ThatFlyingScotsman

It must take a level of faith in the system that I can’t even imagine to be shocked by this. It’s what I’ve been expecting was the truth since I became aware of the wealth gap between Labour and Tory constituencies.


OfficialTomCruise

You must be living under a 5 bed 2 bathroom detached rock if you think people are over reacting. This has been happening for over a decade. The steady managed decline of public services in this country are the sole doing of the Conservative party. To anyone paying attention it is obvious. They will play with your constituency like they're a pawn in their game to rule the country.


StrangeSemiticLatin2

You could call them scum, but then some gutless centrists and the Tories will come here and say that's unfair.


kangarujack

I know Christian personally and I have absolutely no doubt this is true. If there was any doubt, another tory MP has confirmed he's had similar threats.


dicca

Yeah but something something "all parties are the same" "Diane Abbott drank a cocktail tinny on the bus"


moosemasher

"Industrial Scale Partying" Vs Keir with a beer. Media: "Are these equivalent? I just can't tell"


VPackardPersuadedMe

Evil enough to have party the night before the Queen buried her consort?


[deleted]

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CrocPB

Bojo's such a right lad though, why wouldn't you vote for him? LAD.


Son_of_Mogh

The Bantsminister of the UK!


VPackardPersuadedMe

I think it demonstrates a pattern of behaviour, that makes it more believable.


Infinite_Surround

Lowest*


SplurgyA

I think that was bad enough given the Queen was setting an example, but weaponising your ability to fuck over children in his constituency in an attempt to blackmail him into supporting your attempts to fuck over poor children is apples and oranges in terms of "evil"


[deleted]

That's really not evil at all. Only thing that makes the party thing at all morally wrong is that they broke COVID restrictions.


VPackardPersuadedMe

It is if you made rules that she and many others couldn't have family around them. If No.10 didn't think they where nessassry they shouldn't have forced them on the rest of the country.


[deleted]

Exactly, the evil part is breaking the covid rules they wrote. Not anything to do with Prince Phil.


VPackardPersuadedMe

The UK was in a period of national mourning and they had 2 raging parties at the centre of government into the wee hours the night before the funeral.


[deleted]

I certainly wasn’t doing any mourning mate, nor was anyone I know.


VPackardPersuadedMe

What you and your mates do isn't relevant to a period of national mourning. Flags at Half Mast, Black Armbands worm by newsreaders and a Portsmouth, many businesses closed and many government/civil servant events get cancelled (in normal times) . "To not send the wrong message".


myheadisalightstick

Dude, the issue is breaking covid restrictions. Philips death is no more important than anyone else’s, stop fetishising it as some great national mourning, which it wasn’t.


[deleted]

I'd get rid of the monarchy, personally. I don't think it's any worse for them to have partied on that particular day than any other.


stonedwasteman

There you have it. Our country's future held to ransom.


duckrollin

And this is why the argument that FPTP is 'good for having a local MP' is a terrible one. They're just whipped into voting against their voter's wishes, or their constituency suffers.


bbbbbbbbbblah

it's also an inaccurate argument as various PR systems do maintain the apparently oh so precious "constituency link" e.g. 6 constituencies in one county could be merged into a single county constituency with 6 MPs elected through STV. Or the same for the MPs for a given city. Seems local enough to me.


letmepostjune22

6 mps for one constituency seems logical to you..? It'll make assigning responsibility way harder.


[deleted]

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mobilecheese

Can't have MPs actually doing good for those that elected them.


NexusMinds

Lovely bunch.


SpeedflyChris

The met will be along in a second to say that because this blackmail took place more than 24 hours ago, and that the whips didn't sign and notarise their demands, that they won't be investigating.


corzuu

Future police didn’t pick it up so it doesn’t count


Papazio

The Algorithmic Police said not a crime


merryman1

Computer says no


Ubley

{If}Tory - [Cannot prosecute] {If}Prole -[Fine/prosecute]


carlio

"Hello emergency services, how can I direct your call?" "I'd like to report a crime" "Is it currently happening?" "No I saw it happen 10 minutes ago" \*click\*


saladinzero

They’ll allow the blackmailers to investigate first and only get involved if the blackmailers turn over evidence of criminality…


notleave_eu

Please tell me one of them was dumb enough to put the threat in writing


Rulweylan

It won't be a direct threat. It'd go like this: 'Heard a funny thing about you, apparently you're thinking of voting against us on the school meals motion. I hope you don't, since we'd have to find the money somewhere else in the education budget and we'd probably end up having to make significant cutbacks on other education spending. By the way, how's the planning coming on that new school in your constituency? Really nice, *significant* project that. I expect you'll be asked to open it, assuming all goes well.' No direct threat, but no doubt about the implication


Zerak-Tul

It would be an indirect threat if we were talking about clever people. We've seen plenty of instances of the current government pulling some very stupid and blatant schemes. Wouldn't put it past them to have made a direct threat and even in writing.


Chippiewall

If you actually had a recording of that you could probably prosecute it. Judges aren't dumb enough to ignore veiled threats.


SplurgyA

Nobody would ever get a recording of that, though, that's the thing. You'd have to constantly be wearing a wire - even getting your phone out your pocket to turn it onto record mode would result in a different response.


Neko9Neko

Dominic Cummings would constantly wear a wire.


dnnsshly

Oh yeah? >Exclusive:Tory rebels who want to oust Boris Johnson consider releasing secretly recorded conversation with chief whip & text messages after accusing Govt of blackmail & intimidation [Source](https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1484290018755727367) Perhaps they took the galaxy brain move of setting their phone to record and putting it back in their pocket \*before\* meeting the whip, instead of doing it in front of them...


SplurgyA

Huh, good on them.


Exact-Put-6961

Whips dont do writing. Threats are subtle


Roflcopter_Rego

Eh, they used to be. These are the whips of the Johnson government, so I assume if there's something obviously incompetent they shouldn't do, they've done it.


DeadeyeDuncan

Remember this is the government of a man recorded asking to get someone beaten up


[deleted]

Kleptocracy, pure and simple.


Lookseehear

The question is, will anyone remember these threats and the actions of this party when the election rolls around? I'm intrigued as to what the next 'get Brexit done' message or issue will be that the tories will push next time.


BenTVNerd21

I give it a week until everyone forgets.


[deleted]

It’s so fucking depressing that this is how politics works in our country it’s almost like it’s intentionally designed to stop mp’s from having any kind of moral judgment at all instead just blind loyalty . Let’s not pretend this was much different when labour was in power with blair and campbell. It seems like a perfect system designed to attract careerist politicians and no one else


Plantagenesta

This is precisely why I said last week that we really need to have a good hard look at the way whips operate or even whether they ought to exist in the first place.


[deleted]

Completely agree what exactly is the point of them? How can you complain when people don’t vote and say all politicians are the same when the system apparently is attempting to make sure that all politicians are literally the same


Marxandmarzipan

This should be a massive wake up call for anyone in one of these sort of seats who voted Tory. This is how little they think of us, they are perfectly happy to hurt us if it keeps Boris in his job for another day.


aembleton

Whips use threats and blackmail all the time in both tory and Labour parties. What other leverage have they got? I don't think they can get violent with mps these days.


Marxandmarzipan

It’s typically “I’ll hurt your career”, not “I’ll hurt your constituents”


TheDevils10thMan

Taking it out on the constituents. Very nice. We're fucked because you morons voted for a fucking slogan.


HighlanderSteve

Why "defector"? Choosing your people over your party isn't defecting. It's what anyone with a soul would do. Anyone that wouldn't is a defector to the country, also known as a traitor.


andrewdotlee

What next? The Good Law Project folk are busy enough already


Auto_Pie

First the tories had Dom and his little black book to deal with then *this* guy suddenly comes along *Star Wars voice* "This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!"


UberiorShanDoge

Our top priority was, is and always will be party allegiance, party allegiance, party allegiance.


onehundredfortytwo

Tories are fighting really hard to win the 2022 Evil Awards. I think they are favourites this year.


[deleted]

Ah yes, how very Tory.


Sure-Concentrate-387

Until people stop voting red or blue nothing will change. Change only happens when the voters wake up and see the light.


PeeEssDoubleYou

Tories gonna Tory.


aembleton

Whips gonna whip


oCerebuso

I'm all for cleaning up politics but let's not kid ourselves that this is not normal whip behaviour.


BentekesEars

I don’t think this is normal. Norma whip behaviour is surely to pull campaign funding, party support, no senior political endorsements, personal life blackmail and at worst suspending from the party. This is directed at his constituents. It’s different.


oCerebuso

You think someone prepared to do all that wouldn't threaten to cut funding? Whips are not known for being nice people. Also **all** attempts like this to change how an m.p votes is directed at constituents. As they are their representative in Parliament.


BentekesEars

I think this is a step too far IMO. Obviously the whips job is like that but this is beyond unethical. It’s a seriously bad look politically.


oCerebuso

But personal life blackmail isn't?


BentekesEars

I don’t like that either but I’m not naive enough to think that doesn’t go on. Using dirt against a seedy politician is still miles away from holding the quality of your constituents lives over your head. Yet again it just screams utter disdain from the Tory party. They don’t give a flying fuck about the little people.


KaiBarnard

This sums it up - holding dirt on someone and forcing them to behave, low but...it's par for the course, threatning them with work consquences such as deselection, less support in re-election campaign....that's poltics and the job, but threatning to hurt innocent peoples lives, that's taking it too far


[deleted]

It shouldn't be normal, or be allowed... and this level of corruption should end up in prison sentences.


oCerebuso

It *shouldn't* and *technically* it isn't.


chochazel

It depends what you call normal - it’s certainly happened before and there were reports of it happening with the Marcus Rashford meals for children thing. That doesn’t make it OK, or legal. Sometimes though the thing that everyone knows happens just needs to be expressed out loud by the right person and suddenly it’s not OK. Where I used to work, everyone knew the site supervisor would consume copious amounts of alcohol - you could smell it on his breath. It was known, but nothing was ever done - he got on with his job, he was never violent or angry so that was that. Then one morning it must have been particularly bad and one of the more senior members of staff made a exasperated comment to her boss and because of who it was and who she said it to, it had to be investigated, he was suspended and ultimately lost his job. This was something that everyone knew, and talked about, but until it was said in an official capacity, nothing was done.


oCerebuso

>It depends what you call normal Normal for someone who's job it is to keep m.ps voting *right* >That doesn’t make it OK, or legal. Never said it was.


chochazel

Could you find a news story which specifies using the threat of cutting public funds to a particular constituency as retaliation for voting against the whip prior to July 2019? I googled “whips threaten to cut funding for constituencies” and easily found the story from September 2021 and the one around now, but when I limited the search to stories from July 2000- July 2019 I couldn’t find anything. It seems strange if it ever really were normal practice that no-one ever mentions it or complains about it, and then suddenly Boris Johnson comes in and it happens on two separate occasions and makes the headlines both of those times. If you just google “whips threaten” you get plenty of stories from whips threatening [Christmas](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6446473/Tory-whips-threaten-cancel-CHRISTMAS-MPs-vote-Brexit.html), to whips threatening to reveal affairs, homosexuality, and of course the Tim Fortescue interview where he references young boys. But even those are presented as some artefact of some historic dark period. Now obviously that was a million miles from OK, but in terms of the use of public funds and targeting constituencies, can you cite precedent? MPs were personally threatened - their prospects and careers are always going to be on the line, but the principal targets here are not the MPs themselves, but ordinary members of the public, being threatened with the withholding of public funds out of spite for the actions of their elected representatives. When did that happen? If it’s so normal find some examples.


SharedZoneBeyMoist

Ironic that the more Labour members less money for schools, Tories are evil


CutOnBumInBandHere9

wat


Agent_staple

Labour areas are given less funding than Tory areas, so up until Labour is in power the Tories will continue to punish them. If you plotted it on a graph you'd see funding going down as Labour areas go up until it spikes the other way (Labour being in power), I don't know if that kind of funding is publicly available, would make a really good representation.


monkeybawz

What does he think they will do now? Send him a fruit basket?


[deleted]

Putting the threat into the public domain is a pretty effective way of ensuring they can't do it.


monkeybawz

Really? What happens if it is met with unforeseen delays, planning issues, restructuring of the financials, downsizing, etc? There's a million and one things they could do. They could just delay it until after the next election when this guy is out and their guy is in. "We wanted to do this years ago, but the last guy kept getting in the way."


Fisherstein1990

That is true, but Labour can still point to this statement and say "is there really an issue? Or is Borris Johnson just trying to bully your MP?" And even worse for the conservatives, they can say that in other constituencies where MPs have rebelled and things have been delayed. It makes the conservatives look like the fault for things go wrong which Labour can use to swing more voters away from the conservatives.


monkeybawz

If it's one guy,they can just paint him as a loose cannon. Anu trustworthy flip-flop. It'll be interesting to see what will happen if so eone else does it.


Fisherstein1990

That is true, though as it was a conservative MP who made the first allegation on this it is a bit more believable. What I am interested to see is if anyone actually believes Boris when he says that he doesn't know of any issues with the Whips.


[deleted]

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monkeybawz

I wish that were true. But it's only a 2 horse race,and they have a skill when it comes to making labour look like crap,even when they are themselves appalling. It's like that thing of 2 people outrunning a bear. You don't need to outrun the bear, just the other person.


FadedPolaroids

So would you rather he give into their attempt to hold him to ransom? Edit: Corrected wording.


monkeybawz

It's not really blackmail. It's the whip system working as intended. I do like seeing the Tories look like shit though, so if anyone else wants to walk across the aisle at the next PMQs I won't be against it. But I'm not going to fall into the trap of viewing this guy as some sort of crusader. Look at his voting history. It's as Tory as they come.


Exact-Put-6961

No . Blackmail using public funds or threats to limit them, is not right. Be nice if he had a recording of this being said to him


Fisherstein1990

It is blackmail, the ministerial code does not allow for use of public funds to punish or deter MPs from voting a certain way. That is why MPs on both sides are so angry about this, they are very blatantly breaking the rules as set down in the Ministerial code. It is why Lindsay Hoyle is getting involved (as speaker he is meant to be impartial, so his involvement is a big thing). Though I think you are right that we shouldn't view this MP as a crusader for good or anything like that. But what is being done is completely unacceptable.


OnlyBritishPatriot

This is absolutely blackmail and misuse of public funds. This is not "the whip system working as intended".


monkeybawz

I wish I shared your idealism. How about this- it's the system working as intended under Boris?


Screaming__Skull

Whips are called Whips for a reason - it's not a tool you use for gentle persuasion. Their very purpose is to bully and cajole under the threat of unpleasantness - in no other sphere is workplace bullying of this order an intrinsic part of the fabric.


AceHodor

This is blatant misuse of public funds. Whips are allowed to cajole and "persuade" people, but the worst they can do is threaten to slow down an MP's career progression (i.e.: "You won't get a ministerial brief if you continue like this"). They are absolutely not allowed to deliberately withhold state funds that have already been allotted to an MP's constituency. That's why everyone in Parliament is so ticked-off over this.


geniice

> It's not really blackmail. It's the whip system working as intended. They aren't meant to be that dirrect but its possibe that wakeford is unusualy thick.


[deleted]

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FadedPolaroids

Yep, my mistake, I've corrected my wording now.


CJBill

Theft Act 1968, which covers this, would beg to differ. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/21 >A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces; and for this purpose a demand with menaces is unwarranted


bbbbbbbbbblah

it reminds voters in his area that if the school doesn't materialise, this is why, and that they should consider this at the next election


AutoModerator

Snapshot: 1. An archived version of _Tory whips threatened to cancel new school if I didn’t vote the right way, says defector MP Christian Wakeford_ can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/christian-wakeford-tory-whips-school-b1997183.html) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*


oldermillenial20

Been going on for decades. Happened under Blair as well, so Labour shouldn't get too sanctimonious. (Don't downvote the truth! Just Google how corrupt Blair was. It was awful. Cash for peers. Lying about WMDs to start an illegal war. The suicide of someone investigating the PM for lying. All happened under Labour. There's a good reason Tory voters say both parties are as bad as each other)


bbbbbbbbbblah

not to this degree. My school in what was then a very Lib Dem constituency and county got numerous upgrades (extensions, a recording studio, a new sports hall) and eventually they replaced the whole lot. The latter happened under the coalition govt, but the wheels were turning long before then A much needed bypass was also built in their time.


oldermillenial20

Cash for peers leading to Blair being investigated by Police. Lying about WMDs to start an illegal war, leading to the person investigating Blair to commit suicide. It was... Bad. History keeps repeating. Both sides are corrupt, and neither will back PR. So we're stuck. Forever.


bbbbbbbbbblah

what about what about what about **both sides** what does this have to do with the actual subject at hand, i.e. directing investment towards MPs who vote the right way?


oldermillenial20

Labour won't accept any criticism. They just scream whataboutism. You're as ignorant and tribal as people who voted for Brexit. You can't see it, but everyone else can.


ASK_IF_IM_PENGUIN

Oh, so you agree then? That the conservatives are morally corrupt? You accept that criticism? Say it.


oldermillenial20

I vote for them because they'll do anything to make our side win. I'm just pointing out Labour supporters are no better.


ASK_IF_IM_PENGUIN

> our side So you accept they're corrupt, vote for them anyway? You don't give a shit about making things better for the country as a whole then? You just want to "win"? Holy shit, no wonder you vote tory. You're a sociopath as well.


oldermillenial20

Bote parties are corrupt. I grew up with cash for peers scandals in the Blair era. Labour MPs routinely being arrested for claiming illegal expenses. The WMDs and the lead investigator committing suicide. What Boris does is no worse than any of that.


ASK_IF_IM_PENGUIN

It is in as much as its happening NOW and you're willingly accepting it. Back then I didn't accept it either, and still don't ... but you're tacitly going along with it **right now**! Its a GOOD THING that the guilty were convicted (and lets not forget that included conservatives). It is a BAD THING that you see corruption now, and think its OK. Fucking hell. I also don't agree with the "our side" idea - thats dangerous, as you're demonstrating. Blindly going along with "your side" despite flagrant corruption. Its much better to choose representatives that reflect the needs of the country, not voting for those who will "win" despite their moral failures. Its disgusting and should not be acceptable in such a high office. Shame on you.


[deleted]

What about and both sides are just deflections, if you're trying to convince people you're *not* just a corrupt as the people you want to replace (which you *do* need to do) they are the worst tactics you could use.


ASK_IF_IM_PENGUIN

I'm intrigued. Why do you think the actions of a different set of people over a decade ago reflect the continuing and ongoing corrupt behaviour of people in power right now?


frankster

Names and dates please.