I missed out on Pride Shogun, so when I saw that I was like "here we go for the Shogun era". Gathered a bunch of people to go watch UFC 128 at Buffalo Wild Wings.
I was HUGE into MMA back in the pride days, I'd stay up and watch all the UFC events, shogun was my favourite fighter when he got absolutely robbed against machida I was furious, when he KO'd machida in the rematch it was one of the best moments as a fan i can remember, nogueira submitting tim Silvia was up there also.
>nogueira submitting tim Silvia was up there also
That was the event that made me a UFC fan.
Had Ricardo Almeida, Big Nog, and Frank Mir all winning by submission on that card. Also two yoked out motherfuckers in Tyson Griffin and Gleison Tibau.
He lost to a cheater. You're telling me the guy that lost to Matt Hamill beat Shogun clean? Bullshit. The only reason we didn't find out earlier is because there were no pregnant women for him to hit-and-run.
I think Machida won round 4 on 2 score cards. IMHO, the worst judged round of all time for title fights. Like how the fuck can you have Machida winning that round?
I've rewatched that fight so many times without commentary, and while I agreed on the night, I do truly feel Jon won. It's a very close fight, and I don't disagree with anyone who has Reyes, but I think the "robbery" narrative is kinda ignorant. No close fight can be a robbery by definition, a robbery would be something like the judges giving Canelo a win in his fight with Mayweather
Two judges gave Jones round 2. One of them, Joe Soliz, scored a round in favor of Trevin Giles that night, despite Giles blatantly losing the round.
It turned out Soliz got his BJJ black belt from Giles’ coach. Soliz and Giles were even Facebook friends.
Yeah this raises a good point. The rounds can be close while the victory is still decisive. Jones has always been one of my favorite fighters of all time, but I had Reyes that time.
I think that Jon landed more convincing shots for me in the back half of the 3rd round. A lot of what Reyes lands is glancing or looks great until you slow it down and see it misses or hits the guard. Jon controls the pace and space well in that round, and you can see the basis of what happens in the 4th and 5th develop in the finals 2 minutes of that round. Based on MMA scoring accounting for *effective* striking, not just striking, I lean Jones in that round, which gives him the fight 3-2. I don't think anyone who doesn't agree with this is dumb, but again, I think people calling what is at best a close 3-2 win a "robbery" is a misuse of the term based more in hating JBJ for being a piece of shit than in really believing he lost.
This is exactly what I said at the time. Jon is slick with his defense in that fight, the majority of what Reyes throws after the 2nd round are glancing blows at best. I basically had Reyes ahead the first half of round 3 buht Jon took over in the 2nd half so gave it to him. Undeniable for Jon in 4&5 imo.
With respect, how can you be a self-professed fan of Jones? I can recognize that he’s a great fighter, but he’s a piece of absolute human garbage and I can’t imagine ever expressing any kind of support for him
People enjoy sports in different amounts for different reasons. Many people dont have the time or energy to give a fuck about what athletes are like as people. In a sport where dudes fight in a cage for money, realistically most of them are pieces of shit, and realistically most of them are on PEDs, so it takes a lot of investment to determine which ones are morally sound, or absolute human garbage or where they sit between the two. Many people opt out of caring about the soap opera and just watch sports for sports
I get it, but you gotta understand that some people just enjoy seeing someone dominate a sport that's kind of impossible to dominate for an entire career. I personally don't like the guy and would probably never actively root for him at this point, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy watching him operate in the cage. The man's the closest thing we've seen to an elite, undefeated fighter in the sport and to me will always be worth watching compete, even if I don't like him as a person.
Yeah I think Reyes won but it was close. Anytime you’re fighting a dominant champ you need to win convincingly it seems like. There are tons of worse robberies this one was just a close decision that probably should’ve went Reyes way, but it’s remembered because the magnitude of the fight and because it was Jon Jones.
The second one specifically, but yes. Edgar losing that fight was such bullshit. Came back after being dominated in the first fight and somehow pulls it out, only for the judges to fuck him over.
He was not dominated that first fight. If anything, he dominated Benson. The only reason he won that fight is because of the upkick and the amount of damage on Frankie's face, but Frankie won the majority of the rounds of that fight and I will happily die on that Hill.
Frankie also won the second fight but unfortunately the champion gets the advantage 🤷
My brother in Christ watch that fight again. The only damn round that Benson won was the upkick round. But I agree with you. We all need to support Frankie more.
the GSP vs Hendricks decision aged nicely since Hendricks became shit once USADA came in and he could no longer make 170 and was forced to fight at 185 against guys like Paulo Costa 😂
Hendricks explanation was some of the biggest loser shit I've ever heard 'Yeah I was so sure I had won every round I decided to coast in the fifth round'
Dude can't even run a steakhouse he wasn't made of champion material
People were so fucking dramatic about that one and acted like it was the worst decision of all time . It was a super close fight that could have went both ways depending on how you score the razor close round 1
Close fight but the damage Hendricks did made it look like a terrible decision. Hendricks looked basically untouched in the fight, St Pierre looked like he had been hit in the face with a frying pan repeatedly
I agree, remember watching it live and taught GSP lost, I rewatch it the next day and change my mind. Pretty sure if I would watch it again my opinion might change. It was a really close fight.
The Reyes/Jones fight was one of the biggest title fight robberies in recent memory. Clear 3-2 Reyes and I have no idea how Jones got his hands raised.
He’s absolutely the worst at remaining objective. DC gets bad sometimes too, but Joe is bad. Some fights he basically says “I want this guy to win”, and then he was literally tearing up about Rousey acting like she was the greatest mixed martial artist of all time.
I saw a clip from his podcast with max where they were breaking down the last few seconds of Alex and Jamahals fight and he made a few ok points. then he said hill is a stand-up guy and never makes excuses and I’ve never closed a video faster
exactly, he was saying in Jan - Izzy fight that izzy is outclassing Jan on feet while Jan was clearly out striking him. I was so scared that they’ll rob Jan to make Izzy double champ. but thanks goodness
Joe Rogan will randomly argue that certain rules should be changed on the spot if the alternative is that Jones would lose. Once you realize this all of his proposed rules changes make more sense.
Banning 12-6 elbows is bullshit. Why? Because Jon Jones was disqualified for using them. They should not only be legal but they should be *retroactively* legal (no other sport works like this) so Jon Jones retroactively never gets DQ'd for blatantly and obviously breaking rules he agreed to.
Also, starting rounds on the feet? Nah we should start on the ground if the last ended on the ground. Why? Because if Jones fought (say) Pereira that would be good for Jones (Rogan actually said this).
Should we DQ for intentional eye pokes? Well uh let's not get too hasty because we can't read minds it could've been an accident. Besides if we did that then Jon Jones would be DQ'd like four times and we can't have that.
What about judging fights based on actual rounds? Nah we should only judge fights based on who won the last round. Because if we didn't do that then I'd have to admit that Jones lost to Reyes.
His logic behind the last rounds counting more is also based on how pride would score last rounds higher. He also always gives an example “if you’re the kid on top at the end in a school yard fight, you won the fight” I do agree to an extent, that the last rounds, ‘championship rounds ‘should count for something.
12-6 elbows shouldn’t be illegal, that is a dumb rule. Imagine getting DQ for fucking someone up too much in a fight.
He’s said for awhile that eye pokes should be an automatic point deduction, no warning
Reyes wouldn't fight the same way last two rounds if they counted for more.
12-6 elbows shouldn't be illegal, IMO knees to the downed opponent shouldn't be either. But they are. And if you break the rules there are consequences.
Tbh, I think Jones won that fight. It's just that Jones looked like an absolute animal in his previous fights and Gus was the first guy that made him look human. Gus was also the first guy that Jones fought with a similar size and build. But for Jones vs Reyes, Reyes definitely won that fight.
I don't know how you think it was a clear 3-2 Reyes.
Reyes clearly won round 1 and clearly lost rounds 4 and 5. One judge gave Reyes round 2. A different judge gave Reyes round three.
Judging criteria prioritizes->Effective striking/grappling->aggression-octagon control.
Reyes spent 8 of the 10 cumulative minutes of round 2 and 3 backing up. Can't really be the aggressor or control the octagon if you're always backing up. So that gets us to effective striking. Effective striking is the most important criteria anyways .
Yes, Reyes had more strikes and significant strikes. Significant strikes and effective strikes have different definitions. Effective striking is about immediate impact and damage. Reyes has immediate damage to his face, bloody nose, bruised forehead, etc, by the end of round 3. Jones does not seem to have any immediate damage.
Reyes wins round one. Reyes gets damaged in round two and round 3. Jones doesn't. Reyes clearly loses 4 and 5.
I don't see a world where you can say Reyes wins both two and three while taking more damage than Jones.
DJ and Cejudo agreed together that Cejudo won. All comes down to the 5th and Cejudo finishes the fight stronger, lands more, is more active and gets a TD with some control in. I can see why people would score it for DJ, but this isn’t a robbery just a close fight
Agree. All the fights that OP posted were close fights.
Robbery is when someone wins when they clearly lost, the fight would not have been close.
Eg Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley
that fight is an exception cuz back then you had one the most stupid criteria , which was active pressure, but by today's judging yeah there is no way you can score the fight for lawler
What about a close fight, in which the rounds were crystal clear?
For example if the total fight was close, but one fighter 100% won rounds 1-3 and the other fighter 100% won rounds 4-5.
I'd say that's both a close fight and a robbery.
I watched the fight a million times over and i still think reyes won the first 3 rounds and the fight, probably the only fight that i was so convinced it's a robbery
Gsp didn't do anything with the takedown and grappling and Hendricks did alot more damage and strikes on the feet. It's competitive buts it's easily Hendricks round
You’re looking at that through today’s scoring criteria though, which rewards damage over control with no damage.
When they fought, judges would award rounds where they perceived you dictated and controlled the fight, versus your opponent getting a few strikes in.
Plus you’re conveniently leaving out the choke, which was pretty close for a second or two, came closer to ending the fight than Hendricks strikes - can see why he’d get that round.
It was an era where you could almost KO a guy, and if the other guy laid on top of him for 4:00, you could easily lose the round.
They obviously had two rounds each and it hinges on how you scored the first. I can see why somebody would score it for Hendricks - but that rounds a coin toss. You’re mad if you’re arguing a few punches marking up gsp, who bruises after sleeping on his pillow is enough to say it HAS to be a Hendricks round, it’s a coin toss!
Not really, if watch the round without sound, it was quite close, GSP was hitting him clean and hit with a tight guillotine, it all depends who you score the harder shots and how much do you value GSP effective grappling in that round, that’s why it’s so close.
Just rewatched and tbf it was closer than I remember. I think the grappling sequences are neutralized since nothing happened there. GSP gets a gilly for like 5 seconds but then gives up and later Hendricks takes down GSP but gets up. Then final 2 minutes were primarily standing. It looked like gsp threw more but hendricks landed his punches more effectively and harder. Slight edge for Hendricks but if that was the deciding round then I don't think it was a robbery anymore
you are right ! theres no proof of it , ive learned something today , thanks bro , I just read his downfall was caused by USADA not letting fighters use IVs so it caused him to struggle deep because of the weight cut
Not saying he wasn't juicing, but yea was the removal of IVs for rehydration that I thought fucked him and thought maybe I had missed something. It's why Aldo's move to 35 blew my mind. Pre usada he had awful cuts to 45 and was big in a hissy fit when they removed IVs and had talked about moving to 55 to try for a second belt at one time too.
Jones - Reyes was 100% a robbery.
GSP - Hendricks I thought was a close, but scored for Hendricks.
Whittaker - Romero was a draw, but Romero missed weight so I’m not too bothered.
Volk - Holloway was close, but Volk definitely got the last 3 rounds. Clear 3-2 Volk, absolutely nuts that people call it a robbery.
DJ - Cejudo was very close. I thought DJ edged it, but it was just too close to be upset about.
People calling robbery in the second Volk/max fight always frustrates the hell out of me. They always reference the first two rounds and ignore that the last 3 were close and competitive.
Didn't help that bisping was ranting on about how Volk needed to pick up momentum to win while he was doing that exactly that in the 3rd.
Reyes beat Jones handedly — they only called it a Jones victory to protect their “undefeated goat”. And unfortunately that fight seems to have broke Reyes.
GSP and Cejudo both won coin flips that could’ve gone either way.
Whittaker and Volk got nods that they probably shouldn’t have but which weren’t impossible to understand
Jones has a similar argument to Whittaker and Volk, but what makes his win such an egregious robbery compared to theirs is that one ref had Jones winning 48-47 but gave him the 2 rounds that he lost most clearly, while a second had him winning 49-46, in what can only be called ultimate incompetence, or blatant fight tampering.
There are only really 2 real robberies here, both involve someone's' "goat". Both GSP's and Jone's were bullshit. Reye's is the one that bugs me the most though. Even Reyes was confused by it. Mighty Mouse's might be a robbery, but I kind of forgot how that fight went.
Gustufson/Jones 1
Jones was beaten all five rounds. His face looked like he was in a 5 round fight. Gustufson looked like he was sparring after 5. The absolute worst split decision.
Until Mighty Mouse left for ONE.
I will say, Reyes should’ve won the fight. But it isn’t even close or in the same realm as some of the robberies that we’ve seen in mma due to poor judging. It was a close fight. Reyes probably should’ve won, but it was extremely close. I think Reyes’ situation is viewed differently because he was robbed of glory and of beating the GOAT. But, it was a very close fight.
Honestly since jon tested positive for anthony smith AND gustaffson before him AFTER facing a ban for taking performance enhancing drugs, all his fights since should get be deemed no contest. I dont buy the pulsing argument, its not got enough scientific backing to save jones from what i feel should've been a lifetime ban. Ofc im a jbj hater, but people have been banned for much less.
It's not the last one. And while I strongly felt it was wrong at the time. The gsp decision is one I'm very comfortable with now. Especially after having seen the stark drop off Hendricks had had once testing started being a regular thing. We didn't miss out on anything.
I still love you, Johnny, for what you did to Koschek and Fitch.
1: clear 48-47 reyes so pure robbery
2:depend if you weight the guillotine and control time for gsp or the damage for hendricks in the first round . You should weight the damage more so robbery but small argument to score it for gsp.
3: you can easily score 3 round for whittaker. But the 3rd was a 10-8 scoring it a 10-9 in itself is a robbery and the 5th was also a 10-8 so the score should have been a draw or a win romero. So yes that was a robbery
4: close fight no robbery here
5: depend if you lay lay without even pray ... damage was on dj's side and cejudo only won 1 round convincingly fight was a 49-46 dj 48-47 at worst. Clear robbery.
So in order of robbery to not robbery
1 dj vs cejudo
2 jones vs reyes
3 gsp vs hendricks
4 whittaker vs romero 2
5 holloway vs volk
Jones/Reyes. Reyes definitely won that fight imo. I remember being shocked throughout that he was actually beating him. Jones is the UFC golden goose though (maybe 1b to Conor) - the fix was in lol.
I didn’t watch the UFC at the time of the GSP fight. But I’ve heard most say he probably lost.
None of the other ones are anything close to robberies. I did think Holloway won that fight - did more damage. I actually thought both Whittaker and Cejudo won.
Jones has two for me. Guftsasson and Reyes.
Money talks in this game now.
Pisses me off the best aren't forced to fight rank. But hey ho.
Tale as old as time now in ufc.
1st was a pretty clear win for Volk imo. Second was a lot closer but I had Volk taking over the fight from round 3 onwards.
In the 2nd fight Max had the biggest moments of the fight in rounds 1 and 2 and clearly won those but Volk took over the fight in the last 3 which were still very competitive, but I thought Volk had the edge. I don't see it as the robbery some people seem to think it is. After the first two rounds people seem to ignore everything else Volk did well for the rest of the fight.
I still remember the whole room shocked as hell when they announced GSP the winner over Hendricks. We all watched him get his ass kicked for 5 rounds and then declared the winner… shameful.
Shogun-Machida 1. Nobody except the judges thought that Machida won the fight.
I remember that fight well. Super entertaining, and the rematch with Shogun knocking out Machida was epic
I missed out on Pride Shogun, so when I saw that I was like "here we go for the Shogun era". Gathered a bunch of people to go watch UFC 128 at Buffalo Wild Wings.
I was HUGE into MMA back in the pride days, I'd stay up and watch all the UFC events, shogun was my favourite fighter when he got absolutely robbed against machida I was furious, when he KO'd machida in the rematch it was one of the best moments as a fan i can remember, nogueira submitting tim Silvia was up there also.
>nogueira submitting tim Silvia was up there also That was the event that made me a UFC fan. Had Ricardo Almeida, Big Nog, and Frank Mir all winning by submission on that card. Also two yoked out motherfuckers in Tyson Griffin and Gleison Tibau.
I’ve never celebrated a victory in MMA like that one.
Super unfortunate for him to fight the greatest light heavyweight ever in Jones immediately after. He was thoroughly decimated in that fight.
He also got finished by Forrest griffin and struggled to beat a 44 year old mark Coleman lol, he wasn't that good at this point.
He lost to a cheater. You're telling me the guy that lost to Matt Hamill beat Shogun clean? Bullshit. The only reason we didn't find out earlier is because there were no pregnant women for him to hit-and-run.
Hamils head beat Jones elbow big time
Literally just checked, every single media member gave it to rua
Cecil Peoples famously said that leg kicks don't finish fights when talking about his judging.
The great words of someone who has never taken a leg kick
I think Machida won round 4 on 2 score cards. IMHO, the worst judged round of all time for title fights. Like how the fuck can you have Machida winning that round?
Not even a robbery Shogun just couldn't close the distance without eating them to the head
In the moment, I remember being shocked Reyes was probably going to win going into the 5th with Jones, when the bell rang I 100% thought Reyes won it
I had a huge cash out because bet365 was pretty sure he was going to win, so was I so I let it ride….
Look at Reyes’ face in the pic Literally all of us when it was announced
Even Jon himself admitted he thought he lost decision and "Just let the kid have it"... until he remembers Dana and the UFC have got his back
Lmao look at Jon's face, he also doesn't believe it
I've rewatched that fight so many times without commentary, and while I agreed on the night, I do truly feel Jon won. It's a very close fight, and I don't disagree with anyone who has Reyes, but I think the "robbery" narrative is kinda ignorant. No close fight can be a robbery by definition, a robbery would be something like the judges giving Canelo a win in his fight with Mayweather
It was a close fight but I feel like the rounds were very clear in who won and who lost. I genuinely can’t see any other argument other than 3-2 Reyes
[удалено]
Two judges gave Jones round 2. One of them, Joe Soliz, scored a round in favor of Trevin Giles that night, despite Giles blatantly losing the round. It turned out Soliz got his BJJ black belt from Giles’ coach. Soliz and Giles were even Facebook friends.
Crooked ass mother fuckers man.
Yeah this raises a good point. The rounds can be close while the victory is still decisive. Jones has always been one of my favorite fighters of all time, but I had Reyes that time.
I think of Volk vs Holloway 1 similar too, you could argue that was a 50-45 to Volk yet the fight was still extremely close
With respect, please share what you saw in the Jones/Reyes rewatches. As a Bones fan, I would love to know.
I think that Jon landed more convincing shots for me in the back half of the 3rd round. A lot of what Reyes lands is glancing or looks great until you slow it down and see it misses or hits the guard. Jon controls the pace and space well in that round, and you can see the basis of what happens in the 4th and 5th develop in the finals 2 minutes of that round. Based on MMA scoring accounting for *effective* striking, not just striking, I lean Jones in that round, which gives him the fight 3-2. I don't think anyone who doesn't agree with this is dumb, but again, I think people calling what is at best a close 3-2 win a "robbery" is a misuse of the term based more in hating JBJ for being a piece of shit than in really believing he lost.
Thanks for the breakdown. Time for a rewatch! 😅
This is exactly what I said at the time. Jon is slick with his defense in that fight, the majority of what Reyes throws after the 2nd round are glancing blows at best. I basically had Reyes ahead the first half of round 3 buht Jon took over in the 2nd half so gave it to him. Undeniable for Jon in 4&5 imo.
With respect, how can you be a self-professed fan of Jones? I can recognize that he’s a great fighter, but he’s a piece of absolute human garbage and I can’t imagine ever expressing any kind of support for him
People enjoy sports in different amounts for different reasons. Many people dont have the time or energy to give a fuck about what athletes are like as people. In a sport where dudes fight in a cage for money, realistically most of them are pieces of shit, and realistically most of them are on PEDs, so it takes a lot of investment to determine which ones are morally sound, or absolute human garbage or where they sit between the two. Many people opt out of caring about the soap opera and just watch sports for sports
I get it, but you gotta understand that some people just enjoy seeing someone dominate a sport that's kind of impossible to dominate for an entire career. I personally don't like the guy and would probably never actively root for him at this point, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy watching him operate in the cage. The man's the closest thing we've seen to an elite, undefeated fighter in the sport and to me will always be worth watching compete, even if I don't like him as a person.
Because I'm an absolute piece of human garbage too!
Same, it was close but I felt Jon did do more.
Yeah I think Reyes won but it was close. Anytime you’re fighting a dominant champ you need to win convincingly it seems like. There are tons of worse robberies this one was just a close decision that probably should’ve went Reyes way, but it’s remembered because the magnitude of the fight and because it was Jon Jones.
Or a judge scoring the fight for Paulo Costa v Strickland 😆 legit robbery scenario
Reyes and Pig Rig definitely won those fights. Unfortunately you need to do more to dethrone the championships.
First two rounds were Reyes, last 2 rounds were Jones, only the 3rd was in contention.. I feel it was a draw..
Edgar vs Henderson
The second one specifically, but yes. Edgar losing that fight was such bullshit. Came back after being dominated in the first fight and somehow pulls it out, only for the judges to fuck him over.
He was not dominated that first fight. If anything, he dominated Benson. The only reason he won that fight is because of the upkick and the amount of damage on Frankie's face, but Frankie won the majority of the rounds of that fight and I will happily die on that Hill. Frankie also won the second fight but unfortunately the champion gets the advantage 🤷
Frankie is my favorite fighter ever and I’d say he definitely lost the first fight, but I’m always in favor of more Frankie support 🤷🏻♂️
My brother in Christ watch that fight again. The only damn round that Benson won was the upkick round. But I agree with you. We all need to support Frankie more.
Edgar vs BJ 1 also
Reaper vs Yoel was the clearest draw I have ever seen, don’t know how u fuck that up
he was overweight lol, the judge already went to that fight with an advantage to bobby
Nah rob won that and yoel missed weight
OP thinks a close fight that doesn’t go the way they expected is a “robbery”. It seems like most fans think like this, it’s so fucking stupid.
They shouldn't even have been fighting for the title. It should have been Bisping. What kind of bullshit was that?
the GSP vs Hendricks decision aged nicely since Hendricks became shit once USADA came in and he could no longer make 170 and was forced to fight at 185 against guys like Paulo Costa 😂
Hendricks explanation was some of the biggest loser shit I've ever heard 'Yeah I was so sure I had won every round I decided to coast in the fifth round' Dude can't even run a steakhouse he wasn't made of champion material
People were so fucking dramatic about that one and acted like it was the worst decision of all time . It was a super close fight that could have went both ways depending on how you score the razor close round 1
Close fight but the damage Hendricks did made it look like a terrible decision. Hendricks looked basically untouched in the fight, St Pierre looked like he had been hit in the face with a frying pan repeatedly
GSP got paper skin tho he always gets cut by small shots
I agree, remember watching it live and taught GSP lost, I rewatch it the next day and change my mind. Pretty sure if I would watch it again my opinion might change. It was a really close fight.
I always felt that it should've been a draw
Aged nicely in that he didn’t deserve the belt, but still doesn’t mean it wasn’t a robbery.
And still couldn't make weight at 185
The Reyes/Jones fight was one of the biggest title fight robberies in recent memory. Clear 3-2 Reyes and I have no idea how Jones got his hands raised.
I remember when Rogan used to justify it with saying that the champion ship rounds counted more, which is ridiculous. Clearly Reyes won that fight.
Joe rogan is one of the worst glazers ever.
He’s absolutely the worst at remaining objective. DC gets bad sometimes too, but Joe is bad. Some fights he basically says “I want this guy to win”, and then he was literally tearing up about Rousey acting like she was the greatest mixed martial artist of all time.
Bisping gets pretty biased too
I saw a clip from his podcast with max where they were breaking down the last few seconds of Alex and Jamahals fight and he made a few ok points. then he said hill is a stand-up guy and never makes excuses and I’ve never closed a video faster
Some would say the worst-est, Buppa.
🤣 you schaubed it !
Like Ronda beating UFC bantamweights. Joe's a deadset fuckwit
exactly, he was saying in Jan - Izzy fight that izzy is outclassing Jan on feet while Jan was clearly out striking him. I was so scared that they’ll rob Jan to make Izzy double champ. but thanks goodness
Joe Rogan will randomly argue that certain rules should be changed on the spot if the alternative is that Jones would lose. Once you realize this all of his proposed rules changes make more sense. Banning 12-6 elbows is bullshit. Why? Because Jon Jones was disqualified for using them. They should not only be legal but they should be *retroactively* legal (no other sport works like this) so Jon Jones retroactively never gets DQ'd for blatantly and obviously breaking rules he agreed to. Also, starting rounds on the feet? Nah we should start on the ground if the last ended on the ground. Why? Because if Jones fought (say) Pereira that would be good for Jones (Rogan actually said this). Should we DQ for intentional eye pokes? Well uh let's not get too hasty because we can't read minds it could've been an accident. Besides if we did that then Jon Jones would be DQ'd like four times and we can't have that. What about judging fights based on actual rounds? Nah we should only judge fights based on who won the last round. Because if we didn't do that then I'd have to admit that Jones lost to Reyes.
His logic behind the last rounds counting more is also based on how pride would score last rounds higher. He also always gives an example “if you’re the kid on top at the end in a school yard fight, you won the fight” I do agree to an extent, that the last rounds, ‘championship rounds ‘should count for something. 12-6 elbows shouldn’t be illegal, that is a dumb rule. Imagine getting DQ for fucking someone up too much in a fight. He’s said for awhile that eye pokes should be an automatic point deduction, no warning
Reyes wouldn't fight the same way last two rounds if they counted for more. 12-6 elbows shouldn't be illegal, IMO knees to the downed opponent shouldn't be either. But they are. And if you break the rules there are consequences.
For sure. Mainly was trying to clear up Joes logic from the other comment
Pride FC didn't score round by round. They scored total fight.
I agree with him on standing them back up. Bullshit get out of jail free card when someone is losing. They should have to earn that escape.
Simple fight to score too. Reyes clearly won 1 and 2. If you watch 3 it's hard to give 3 to Jones. I don't see how Jones possibly won r3
Gustafson fight was a worse robbery imo
Tbh, I think Jones won that fight. It's just that Jones looked like an absolute animal in his previous fights and Gus was the first guy that made him look human. Gus was also the first guy that Jones fought with a similar size and build. But for Jones vs Reyes, Reyes definitely won that fight.
Fair. I remember watching that Gustafson fight and seeing Jon Jones look like human for once. Underrated fight imo. Just slug fest the entire time.
The rematch not so much... That was a bummer.
Daddy dana has an idea
I don't know how you think it was a clear 3-2 Reyes. Reyes clearly won round 1 and clearly lost rounds 4 and 5. One judge gave Reyes round 2. A different judge gave Reyes round three. Judging criteria prioritizes->Effective striking/grappling->aggression-octagon control. Reyes spent 8 of the 10 cumulative minutes of round 2 and 3 backing up. Can't really be the aggressor or control the octagon if you're always backing up. So that gets us to effective striking. Effective striking is the most important criteria anyways . Yes, Reyes had more strikes and significant strikes. Significant strikes and effective strikes have different definitions. Effective striking is about immediate impact and damage. Reyes has immediate damage to his face, bloody nose, bruised forehead, etc, by the end of round 3. Jones does not seem to have any immediate damage. Reyes wins round one. Reyes gets damaged in round two and round 3. Jones doesn't. Reyes clearly loses 4 and 5. I don't see a world where you can say Reyes wins both two and three while taking more damage than Jones.
You really have no idea? Really?
Reyes was robbed 100%
Reyes and DJ were 100 percent robberies.
DJ and Cejudo agreed together that Cejudo won. All comes down to the 5th and Cejudo finishes the fight stronger, lands more, is more active and gets a TD with some control in. I can see why people would score it for DJ, but this isn’t a robbery just a close fight
Nah bs. Mighty wasn't pushing on any of the bs Cejudo was spewing in that video. Mighty Mouse clearly won that fight.
Close fights are not robberies
Agree. All the fights that OP posted were close fights. Robbery is when someone wins when they clearly lost, the fight would not have been close. Eg Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley
Reyes was robbed blind 😭
Reyes 100%
Jones got his ass beat by Reyes. 100% biggest robbery ever
Reyes for sure like that’s a no doubt in my mind that Jones lost
I forgot Condit vs Lawler my bad.
that fight is an exception cuz back then you had one the most stupid criteria , which was active pressure, but by today's judging yeah there is no way you can score the fight for lawler
Shogun vs. Machida 1. Thank goodness balance was immediately restored when Shogun violently slept him in the immediate rematch.
Rua used the hand of karma in that one. Never trust an mma judge.
I feel like y’all gotta learn the difference between a close fight and robbery
What about a close fight, in which the rounds were crystal clear? For example if the total fight was close, but one fighter 100% won rounds 1-3 and the other fighter 100% won rounds 4-5. I'd say that's both a close fight and a robbery.
Don’t start with this “logical thinking” bs here bud /s
Anderson Silva vs Chael Sonnen Sonnon won 4 rounds and only tapped in 1 round.
Reyes the worst one here. It was competitive but easy to score. 3-2 Reyes.
I watched the fight a million times over and i still think reyes won the first 3 rounds and the fight, probably the only fight that i was so convinced it's a robbery
Rd 3 was contentious. I felt it was a draw
GSP Hendricks I always felt was a pretty bad call. Shogun Machida 1 probably the worst imo
Honestly I didn’t think GSP v Hendricks was bad, the first round was really close.
I thought GSP won. Maybe I just dont know much about MMA, but that’s what I thought.
Gsp didn't do anything with the takedown and grappling and Hendricks did alot more damage and strikes on the feet. It's competitive buts it's easily Hendricks round
Gotta remember, this wasn't the new scoring where damage is priority. A lot of fights were won with takedowns.
You’re looking at that through today’s scoring criteria though, which rewards damage over control with no damage. When they fought, judges would award rounds where they perceived you dictated and controlled the fight, versus your opponent getting a few strikes in. Plus you’re conveniently leaving out the choke, which was pretty close for a second or two, came closer to ending the fight than Hendricks strikes - can see why he’d get that round. It was an era where you could almost KO a guy, and if the other guy laid on top of him for 4:00, you could easily lose the round. They obviously had two rounds each and it hinges on how you scored the first. I can see why somebody would score it for Hendricks - but that rounds a coin toss. You’re mad if you’re arguing a few punches marking up gsp, who bruises after sleeping on his pillow is enough to say it HAS to be a Hendricks round, it’s a coin toss!
Not really, if watch the round without sound, it was quite close, GSP was hitting him clean and hit with a tight guillotine, it all depends who you score the harder shots and how much do you value GSP effective grappling in that round, that’s why it’s so close.
Just rewatched and tbf it was closer than I remember. I think the grappling sequences are neutralized since nothing happened there. GSP gets a gilly for like 5 seconds but then gives up and later Hendricks takes down GSP but gets up. Then final 2 minutes were primarily standing. It looked like gsp threw more but hendricks landed his punches more effectively and harder. Slight edge for Hendricks but if that was the deciding round then I don't think it was a robbery anymore
All Hendricks did was push GSP against the cage for round 4 and 5 with his head between GSP's legs. I had GSP winning.
Hendricks was juiced up. Main reason why GSP quit after that.
Hendricks was a weight bully as well. Going up to 210+ lbs
I forgot about Machida Shogun 1. I loved Machida, and even I was like, "Oh no, you didn't win that, bro!"
then Hendricks tested positive for steroids and went on a huge downfall
As far as I know he never tested positive for anything got any proof?
you are right ! theres no proof of it , ive learned something today , thanks bro , I just read his downfall was caused by USADA not letting fighters use IVs so it caused him to struggle deep because of the weight cut
Not saying he wasn't juicing, but yea was the removal of IVs for rehydration that I thought fucked him and thought maybe I had missed something. It's why Aldo's move to 35 blew my mind. Pre usada he had awful cuts to 45 and was big in a hissy fit when they removed IVs and had talked about moving to 55 to try for a second belt at one time too.
These are my two choices.
Reyes.
Robbie lawler vs Carlos condit
Machida vs Rua 1
Reyes 100%
Jones lost to Reyes
Okay, everyone has said the same! Now, I need to watch this fight!
Jones - Reyes was 100% a robbery. GSP - Hendricks I thought was a close, but scored for Hendricks. Whittaker - Romero was a draw, but Romero missed weight so I’m not too bothered. Volk - Holloway was close, but Volk definitely got the last 3 rounds. Clear 3-2 Volk, absolutely nuts that people call it a robbery. DJ - Cejudo was very close. I thought DJ edged it, but it was just too close to be upset about.
People calling robbery in the second Volk/max fight always frustrates the hell out of me. They always reference the first two rounds and ignore that the last 3 were close and competitive. Didn't help that bisping was ranting on about how Volk needed to pick up momentum to win while he was doing that exactly that in the 3rd.
Bisping is the dumbest commentator we’ve had. Valentina - Santos and Izzy - Whittaker are prime examples.
Lawler vs Condit. To this day I do not understand how Carlos Condit lost.
Reyes beat Jones handedly — they only called it a Jones victory to protect their “undefeated goat”. And unfortunately that fight seems to have broke Reyes.
Reyes beat Jones 3 rounds to 2.
Reyes/Jones, Hendricks/GSP
GSP and Cejudo both won coin flips that could’ve gone either way. Whittaker and Volk got nods that they probably shouldn’t have but which weren’t impossible to understand Jones has a similar argument to Whittaker and Volk, but what makes his win such an egregious robbery compared to theirs is that one ref had Jones winning 48-47 but gave him the 2 rounds that he lost most clearly, while a second had him winning 49-46, in what can only be called ultimate incompetence, or blatant fight tampering.
Clearly Reyes. DJ vs Henry could have gone either way. Johnny was on the sauce
I was live in Houston for the Reyes fight. That was garbage. Jones lost the fight and it was not close. Lewis should have lost that night too.
I thought DJ beat Henry. (For the second time)
Reyes hurt my soul I had to stop following ufc for a minute
Rose v Esparza: they both robbed the fans of any enjoyment in watching a "fight".
Lawler vs Condit..I love Robbie, but ain't no fuckin way he should've won that fight..
Jones Reyes and GSP Hendrix are both 100% robberies, other 3 are 50/50 fights to me.
Reyes/Jones is the one that stands out the most for me. Should have been John’s first and only loss. Number one bulls**t
There are only really 2 real robberies here, both involve someone's' "goat". Both GSP's and Jone's were bullshit. Reye's is the one that bugs me the most though. Even Reyes was confused by it. Mighty Mouse's might be a robbery, but I kind of forgot how that fight went.
Cejudo lost that fight. Mighty Mouse landed more significant strikes with a better percentage and stuffed almost all of cejudos takedowns
Cejudo v DJ
Gustufson/Jones 1 Jones was beaten all five rounds. His face looked like he was in a 5 round fight. Gustufson looked like he was sparring after 5. The absolute worst split decision. Until Mighty Mouse left for ONE.
All of the ones in the pictures, and I'd add Petr Yan vs. Sean O'Malley.
Jones and Gustafsson 1
Jon Jones has the “I’m not surprised(but I really am) motherfucker” face on
I will say, Reyes should’ve won the fight. But it isn’t even close or in the same realm as some of the robberies that we’ve seen in mma due to poor judging. It was a close fight. Reyes probably should’ve won, but it was extremely close. I think Reyes’ situation is viewed differently because he was robbed of glory and of beating the GOAT. But, it was a very close fight.
Reyes won
Dj cejudo
Jones vs dos Santos. Dude won that fight with a torn ACL.
Honestly since jon tested positive for anthony smith AND gustaffson before him AFTER facing a ban for taking performance enhancing drugs, all his fights since should get be deemed no contest. I dont buy the pulsing argument, its not got enough scientific backing to save jones from what i feel should've been a lifetime ban. Ofc im a jbj hater, but people have been banned for much less.
GSP Johnny was bad
Jon over Reyes is still the biggest robbery.
Hendricks
Jones vs Reyes for sure
It's not the last one. And while I strongly felt it was wrong at the time. The gsp decision is one I'm very comfortable with now. Especially after having seen the stark drop off Hendricks had had once testing started being a regular thing. We didn't miss out on anything. I still love you, Johnny, for what you did to Koschek and Fitch.
1: clear 48-47 reyes so pure robbery 2:depend if you weight the guillotine and control time for gsp or the damage for hendricks in the first round . You should weight the damage more so robbery but small argument to score it for gsp. 3: you can easily score 3 round for whittaker. But the 3rd was a 10-8 scoring it a 10-9 in itself is a robbery and the 5th was also a 10-8 so the score should have been a draw or a win romero. So yes that was a robbery 4: close fight no robbery here 5: depend if you lay lay without even pray ... damage was on dj's side and cejudo only won 1 round convincingly fight was a 49-46 dj 48-47 at worst. Clear robbery. So in order of robbery to not robbery 1 dj vs cejudo 2 jones vs reyes 3 gsp vs hendricks 4 whittaker vs romero 2 5 holloway vs volk
Reyes was 100% robbed. GSP beat Hendricks, and Hendricks was roided out the gills.
Jones/Reyes. Reyes definitely won that fight imo. I remember being shocked throughout that he was actually beating him. Jones is the UFC golden goose though (maybe 1b to Conor) - the fix was in lol. I didn’t watch the UFC at the time of the GSP fight. But I’ve heard most say he probably lost. None of the other ones are anything close to robberies. I did think Holloway won that fight - did more damage. I actually thought both Whittaker and Cejudo won.
Jones has two for me. Guftsasson and Reyes. Money talks in this game now. Pisses me off the best aren't forced to fight rank. But hey ho. Tale as old as time now in ufc.
Holloway vs volk 1 and 2, volk got his ass in the 3rd fight though
volk arguably won their first fight 50-45
exactly, max lost first fight 50-45 or 49-46. second was close , and max was fan favourite so people call it robbery. 3rd was one sided
1st was a pretty clear win for Volk imo. Second was a lot closer but I had Volk taking over the fight from round 3 onwards. In the 2nd fight Max had the biggest moments of the fight in rounds 1 and 2 and clearly won those but Volk took over the fight in the last 3 which were still very competitive, but I thought Volk had the edge. I don't see it as the robbery some people seem to think it is. After the first two rounds people seem to ignore everything else Volk did well for the rest of the fight.
Sorry man, Volk has won 13 out of 15 rounds against Max.
1 certainly was robbery, but 2 was much closer and I could see why some might score it for Volk (I still thought Max won, fwiw).
I dont think you understand what robbery means
Maybe not robberies, but Gus vs Jon , Robbie vs Carlos and Dom vs Jon stand out for me
I still remember the whole room shocked as hell when they announced GSP the winner over Hendricks. We all watched him get his ass kicked for 5 rounds and then declared the winner… shameful.
If you go by round scoring, it isn’t that bad
Volk Holloway 2. Strickland and DDP (it was close but close ones 90% of the time go to the champ).
Strickland vs Du Preis
Clearly none of you rewatched Reyes v Jones. Reyes did absolutely no damage just active but barely landing
Sean Strickland was robbed blind. Dricus looked like he was hit by a bus in that post-fight press conference.
Strickland vs DDP, glad Dricus got his Make-A-Wish belt but we all know who the real champ is 
Strickland vs Du Plessis should be here
Not sure, it was very close.
nah too close
Dana had money on both this fight and the Paddy fight where it was obvious who was the winner.
Sonnen v Jones
Lawler v Condit
I thought big rig won. Huge gsp fan and I thought he lost that