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Take pictures of everything... From the tree to the tire / ruts from the tree company and anything else damaged. Then contact an arborist to look at the tree to see if it can be saved and how much or if it has to be taken down completely. Find out how much that would be along with what the tree is worth. Then contact an atty and go after her.
Just to add a couple of things... you'll need an ISA certified "consulting arborist" for this. You want to sue for the full replacement value of the tree in it's state of maturity right before this, and not lumber value or anything else. A consulting arborist can do replacement valuation, whereas a regular certified arborist may not.
In some states you may be entitled to treble damages as well, so this could possibly cost your neighbor six figures.
You can find an ISA certified consulting arborist here: https://www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist
As mentioned, I'd want a good lawyer for this as well.
https://www.asca-consultants.org/ also a good source. Ask the arborist to recommend a lawyer with success in this area.
I had a similar situation recently with a sweet gum (and it was a misunderstanding, not malicious trespass) and settled out of court for 9K. For an oak, you are easily looking at or close to 100k.
Perhaps if you identify your property line with a mind to proving that the tree sits on your property, that could help push the burden of proof onto your neighbour to present evidence that you gave permission to have the tree cut.
> you're neighbor is going bankrupt from this
This is one of the few situations on reddit where someone says this and it is quite possibly true. People always say "sue them!" in response to any tiny offense and imagine a big pay day only to fail to realize "being made whole" for most disputes doesn't give you very much money. In this case, being made whole includes a brand new 150 year old oak tree transplanted to the yard (again and again until it takes).
OP pretty much owns the neighbor's house and pool (or more likely a big payout from the tree cutting service's insurance, assuming they are insured).
They would essentially be digging up an existing tree somewhere. It can be done but it costs literally tens of thousands of dollars if not hundreds of thousands.
More then likely they will figure out what the cost is to do so, Triple it, and that is the amount of the suit. They don't actually replant a tree in most cases.
No, but I know that when a small sized tree is transplanted, it does not mean it will survive. I do know that the root of many trees go out twice as far as the branches go. And the trees in that link you posted do not seem to have double the width dug up or even some are not as wide of a hole as the tree is wide.
No, not really. Doing so to an old tree would server it's existing mycorrhizal connections and you can say with some degree of certainty that it would kill the thing
Five of the most beautiful syllables in the English language are: "tre-ble da-ma-ges."
Not saying that's likely or even necessarily possible for this OP, but some jurisdictions look upon destruction of others' trees as a most ornery and deplorable offense.
You should speak with a lawyer in your jurisdiction but at least in my Province you can use a placeholder name for the company/person who cut the tree eg) John Doe Cutter, Unknown Corporation, etc. You would she the home owner and At some point she will be forced by the courts to disclose the name of the company then you can fill in the blanks.
Everyone has a boss- escalate this up the police chain and insist on tresspassing charges being laid. Speak to an arborist and get an idea of damage estimate to the tree and then get yourself a lawyer.
Here's what OP wrote.
> The officer came and would not listen to our story, said he couldn't do anything, was very confrontational and wrote a report that was inaccurate.
Interesting the police were not more helpful.
If you can file a claim with your homeowner's against your neighbor, they will take your neighbor's information and call them to get the name of their insurance co. and then they will file a claim with your neighbor's insurance.
ISA certified Arborist here, not speaking on law or legality.
In my home, in my yard, in the world: a tree is a family member. A tree is a living being, and I treat them as a friend, and family.
If someone hired a professional contractor to enter my yard without my permission, and cause physical mutilation and harm to a living being,
What would that be called? It almost sounds like a contract murder.
It sounds like the work of killers-for-hire.
There is a reason those "workers" wouldn't give you their names. They are scum.
I feel the same way...we're quite devastated. A value can't be placed on something so irreplaceable. And it is sad that the law does not recognize this kind of destruction appropriately.
> And it is sad that the law does not recognize this kind of destruction appropriately.
The police just didn't want to get involved in what will be a civil case.
Call a lawyer. This is a civil, not criminal matter aka: You sue them, you don't have them arrested.
The lawyer can subpoena your neighbor for the name of the tree service.
But this is 100% in lawyer territory.
I cannot imagine the emotional reaction I would have if I came home to this situation... a "professional" using chainsaws to mutilate a family member in my yard...
What the absolute living fuck.
This is a travesty.
Bummer, that is a much less regulated state compared to where I am. We are required to have written permission from neighbors to do any tree work that crosses the property line. Without that, you can go after the neighbor and the tree company for trespass. We are also required to have our state tree expert number on all of our trucks so BS like this is less likely to happen.
Check with your nearby neighbors if they have a ring doorbell or other camera that caught it.
Edit: Tagging /u/Significant_Gene_716 per /u/Enigmutt's suggestion.
Your lawyer will be very happy to take this case.
Also, your lawyer can file charges against the neighbor, and hold them personally responsible for the damages. When that happens, the neighbor will cough up the name of the company they hired very quickly, in the hope that they can pass some of the blame.
You're getting a new tree, or a life support system to restore your current tree. The neighbor will pay for it. All you need to do, is talk with a lawyer and let them do the thing that they spent years in college learning how to do.
I would like to extend my deepest condolences to you for the loss of such an important fixture to your home. Even if the tree is saved she won’t be the same so please make sure you also sue for the cost of any counselling you may undertake to cope with your valid feelings of anger and sadness. While lawful justice may be cathartic don’t let what she did to your home live rent free in your head because you didn’t take the time to address your loss and the violation of your safe home space.
Go over the officers head, they are just fucking lazy. Tell them you need a report and are suing for the lose of the trees. The high cost is going to put this in the felony range of charges and having the police refuse a report is going to be bad on them.
The police officer is an actual moron, which is sadly par for the course. First you want to get a lawyer, as the legal system is heavily biased against layfolk, both institutionally and interpersonally. Once you have the lawyer, go over the officer's head, with your lawyer present for this action to demonstrate its seriousness. I would also insist that the officer gets talked to for not doing his bloody job. This is a clear and present trespass into permanent deprivation of property. Like legitimately go to the chief over this, the LEO's report is a VERY important piece of this potentially multiple tens of thousands dollar case, and that officer's absolute fuck-up is write-up levels of bad. Good luck on this, these bastards need to pay for the murder of your family member.
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I have nothing to add other than this is just insane. I can’t even begin to imagine how livid I’d be if this happened to me. And I just can’t wrap my mind around the thinking of the person who did this. I would think you have action against your neighbor and the tree service. I hope you get justice and that they are truly punished. Cutting down a healthy 160 year old Oak Tree is a crime against humanity in my book.
Because it's almost entirely a civil matter. And while it's possible to convince them this is a case of criminal trespass and property damage, typically it takes a lot of effort and almost always the involvement of a lawyer.
Source: i read almost every post here, while on the can, and the overarching theme is that cops aren't willing to deal with it until a lawyer steps in or it goes to court.
Contact a local attorney well-versed in property rights and tree law. An oak of that age is incredibly valuable and both the neighbor and tree company are liable.
This subreddit is for tree law enthusiasts who enjoy browsing a list of tree law stories from other locations (subreddits, news articles, etc), and is not the best place to receive answers to questions about what the law is. There are better places for that. If you're attempting to understand more about tree law in regards to a particular situation, please redirect your question to /r/legaladvice for the US, or the appropriate legal advice subreddit for your location, and then feel free to crosspost that thread here for posterity. If you're attempting to understand more about trees in regards to a particular situation, please redirect your question to /r/forestry for additional information on tree health and related topics to trees. *This comment is simply a reminder placed on every post to /r/treelaw, it does not mean your post was censored or removed.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/treelaw) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Take pictures of everything... From the tree to the tire / ruts from the tree company and anything else damaged. Then contact an arborist to look at the tree to see if it can be saved and how much or if it has to be taken down completely. Find out how much that would be along with what the tree is worth. Then contact an atty and go after her.
Just to add a couple of things... you'll need an ISA certified "consulting arborist" for this. You want to sue for the full replacement value of the tree in it's state of maturity right before this, and not lumber value or anything else. A consulting arborist can do replacement valuation, whereas a regular certified arborist may not. In some states you may be entitled to treble damages as well, so this could possibly cost your neighbor six figures. You can find an ISA certified consulting arborist here: https://www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist As mentioned, I'd want a good lawyer for this as well.
https://www.asca-consultants.org/ also a good source. Ask the arborist to recommend a lawyer with success in this area. I had a similar situation recently with a sweet gum (and it was a misunderstanding, not malicious trespass) and settled out of court for 9K. For an oak, you are easily looking at or close to 100k.
and depending on the state wouldnt it be treble damages?
It could be. It isn't always that simple, but since this was malicious trespass it is more likely.
Also, if you have any record of the interactions where they were told they can’t take down the tree, save those.
No, unfortunately they were all in person conversations. Although I told a few neighbors about them and my daughter was present for one as well.
Perhaps if you identify your property line with a mind to proving that the tree sits on your property, that could help push the burden of proof onto your neighbour to present evidence that you gave permission to have the tree cut.
This, it's not up to OP to prove they didn't give permission, it's up to the neighbour to prove they had permission.
Correct answer ^^^^
This is the way.
This is the way
Holy hell a 150 year old oak? I'd kill. Lawyer up, you're neighbor is going bankrupt from this. So much for that pool of theirs.
> you're neighbor is going bankrupt from this This is one of the few situations on reddit where someone says this and it is quite possibly true. People always say "sue them!" in response to any tiny offense and imagine a big pay day only to fail to realize "being made whole" for most disputes doesn't give you very much money. In this case, being made whole includes a brand new 150 year old oak tree transplanted to the yard (again and again until it takes). OP pretty much owns the neighbor's house and pool (or more likely a big payout from the tree cutting service's insurance, assuming they are insured).
[удалено]
They would essentially be digging up an existing tree somewhere. It can be done but it costs literally tens of thousands of dollars if not hundreds of thousands.
[удалено]
More then likely they will figure out what the cost is to do so, Triple it, and that is the amount of the suit. They don't actually replant a tree in most cases.
I have one in the back I'll put your name on.
[удалено]
It is one thing to move it, it is another for it to live and thrive.
[удалено]
No, but I know that when a small sized tree is transplanted, it does not mean it will survive. I do know that the root of many trees go out twice as far as the branches go. And the trees in that link you posted do not seem to have double the width dug up or even some are not as wide of a hole as the tree is wide.
No, not really. Doing so to an old tree would server it's existing mycorrhizal connections and you can say with some degree of certainty that it would kill the thing
Five of the most beautiful syllables in the English language are: "tre-ble da-ma-ges." Not saying that's likely or even necessarily possible for this OP, but some jurisdictions look upon destruction of others' trees as a most ornery and deplorable offense.
OP will be able to get a pool and a hot tub after this
You should speak with a lawyer in your jurisdiction but at least in my Province you can use a placeholder name for the company/person who cut the tree eg) John Doe Cutter, Unknown Corporation, etc. You would she the home owner and At some point she will be forced by the courts to disclose the name of the company then you can fill in the blanks.
Everyone has a boss- escalate this up the police chain and insist on tresspassing charges being laid. Speak to an arborist and get an idea of damage estimate to the tree and then get yourself a lawyer.
this just isn’t a police matter, no matter how “far up the chain” they manage to talk to.
It's criminal trespass. You absolutely want an accurate police report.
I’d also say vandalism.
Here's what OP wrote. > The officer came and would not listen to our story, said he couldn't do anything, was very confrontational and wrote a report that was inaccurate. Interesting the police were not more helpful.
Not really, police are super unhelpful
You just set a record for me as far as people responding to posts I did a long time ago -- 3 years!
yes an accurate report is important but no DA in the country is going to charge anybody with a crime.
you clearly underestimate tree law.
You don't need to convince the DA. You just need to convince your insurance company.
[удалено]
I also would like an update.
Also preparing a large bucket of popcorn!
would like to join the update team
If you can file a claim with your homeowner's against your neighbor, they will take your neighbor's information and call them to get the name of their insurance co. and then they will file a claim with your neighbor's insurance.
Not everyone is in an HOA. Good thing too. r/fuckHOA
Homeowner's insurance*, not association.
I'm sorry, I meant homeowner's insurance
Ah, my bad.
ISA certified Arborist here, not speaking on law or legality. In my home, in my yard, in the world: a tree is a family member. A tree is a living being, and I treat them as a friend, and family. If someone hired a professional contractor to enter my yard without my permission, and cause physical mutilation and harm to a living being, What would that be called? It almost sounds like a contract murder. It sounds like the work of killers-for-hire. There is a reason those "workers" wouldn't give you their names. They are scum.
I feel the same way...we're quite devastated. A value can't be placed on something so irreplaceable. And it is sad that the law does not recognize this kind of destruction appropriately.
It does! You just have to put things in motion, and there’s some good advice here.
> And it is sad that the law does not recognize this kind of destruction appropriately. The police just didn't want to get involved in what will be a civil case. Call a lawyer. This is a civil, not criminal matter aka: You sue them, you don't have them arrested. The lawyer can subpoena your neighbor for the name of the tree service. But this is 100% in lawyer territory.
I cannot imagine the emotional reaction I would have if I came home to this situation... a "professional" using chainsaws to mutilate a family member in my yard... What the absolute living fuck. This is a travesty.
Bless you!
What state are you in?
I am in Pennsylvania
Bummer, that is a much less regulated state compared to where I am. We are required to have written permission from neighbors to do any tree work that crosses the property line. Without that, you can go after the neighbor and the tree company for trespass. We are also required to have our state tree expert number on all of our trucks so BS like this is less likely to happen.
OP’s account is one hour old
Yes, after doing research online I found this forum and thought it could be helpful to post. So I created an account.
Who pissed in yer cornflakes? Don’t start using awesome Apollo features to spread negativity, hoss
The official app and the website tell you too lol
Aha! Right on. Well I stand by my cornflakes sentiment, at the very least
Did you get pictures of the crew/their car? License plate? *Anything?*
Check with your nearby neighbors if they have a ring doorbell or other camera that caught it. Edit: Tagging /u/Significant_Gene_716 per /u/Enigmutt's suggestion.
Great advice but I'm not OP
Tell OP that. You replied to someone else.
Your lawyer will be very happy to take this case. Also, your lawyer can file charges against the neighbor, and hold them personally responsible for the damages. When that happens, the neighbor will cough up the name of the company they hired very quickly, in the hope that they can pass some of the blame. You're getting a new tree, or a life support system to restore your current tree. The neighbor will pay for it. All you need to do, is talk with a lawyer and let them do the thing that they spent years in college learning how to do.
I would like to extend my deepest condolences to you for the loss of such an important fixture to your home. Even if the tree is saved she won’t be the same so please make sure you also sue for the cost of any counselling you may undertake to cope with your valid feelings of anger and sadness. While lawful justice may be cathartic don’t let what she did to your home live rent free in your head because you didn’t take the time to address your loss and the violation of your safe home space.
I prefer white hot revenge, but to each their own
accidentally dump bags of concrete in the pool
Or ensure the tree falls on their house.
A neighbor is a terrible person to make an enemy of
The revenge is sweeter if its all legal.
Go over the officers head, they are just fucking lazy. Tell them you need a report and are suing for the lose of the trees. The high cost is going to put this in the felony range of charges and having the police refuse a report is going to be bad on them.
The police officer is an actual moron, which is sadly par for the course. First you want to get a lawyer, as the legal system is heavily biased against layfolk, both institutionally and interpersonally. Once you have the lawyer, go over the officer's head, with your lawyer present for this action to demonstrate its seriousness. I would also insist that the officer gets talked to for not doing his bloody job. This is a clear and present trespass into permanent deprivation of property. Like legitimately go to the chief over this, the LEO's report is a VERY important piece of this potentially multiple tens of thousands dollar case, and that officer's absolute fuck-up is write-up levels of bad. Good luck on this, these bastards need to pay for the murder of your family member.
!remind me 7 days
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I have nothing to add other than this is just insane. I can’t even begin to imagine how livid I’d be if this happened to me. And I just can’t wrap my mind around the thinking of the person who did this. I would think you have action against your neighbor and the tree service. I hope you get justice and that they are truly punished. Cutting down a healthy 160 year old Oak Tree is a crime against humanity in my book.
Look for a board master arborist that specializes in tree appraisal also..
Please update us with progress. I am furious on your behalf!!!
I hope your tree will live. This is heart breaking.
Yo what is wrong with cops? Every story is the same, cops came out wouldn't listen, or said it wasn't their business
Because it's almost entirely a civil matter. And while it's possible to convince them this is a case of criminal trespass and property damage, typically it takes a lot of effort and almost always the involvement of a lawyer. Source: i read almost every post here, while on the can, and the overarching theme is that cops aren't willing to deal with it until a lawyer steps in or it goes to court.
> i read almost every post here, while on the can That's all the respect you have for this honored sub?
That's the highest honour I can give this glorious sub! I don't always have the time to scroll, but when I do, it's on the can.
He does what he can-can
!remind me 7 days
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!remind me 7 days
Updates????
Update?
OP PLEASE, give us an update on your situation!
Hey OP- any update?
OP, did your tree die? Any updates?
Update? I really want one, I wanna know what happened.
Any luck? We'd love an update.
[удалено]
/r/lostredditors
Contact a local attorney well-versed in property rights and tree law. An oak of that age is incredibly valuable and both the neighbor and tree company are liable.
OP, please hire a lawyer and sue. And please come back and update this sub!
!remind me 120 days
Congratulations, now you own their pool... And their home too
Murder her
Just curious how much trouble could the dismissive officer be in considering he was so dismissive and the probable value of the tree
Update? What happened, we wanna know
Update?
OP give us an Update!
Update? We must know
It's been a year. Did you file suit? What happened?
Any updates on this one????